Evasive Disc vs. Defensive Disc

[captnamazing]

Recently hit 55 and have Defensive Discipline. I am told this is even better than evasive discipline, but I have no idea why. Anyone care to give me some info so I know when to use which?

[Tecmos Deception]

I think you're supposed to use evasive most of the time. Defensive is only for stuff like VP dragons or other very hard-hitting bosses. I'm no warrior, but this is what I hear warriors say :)

[Buriedpast]

It is entirely up to mob DI.

But idiots rule: if it has a proc, evasive.

Nothing pre velious matters enough to care which you use.

[Peekae]

Stupid rule of thumb that was also used was evasive on everything except Bee Queen and a few VP dragons.

Long story short if something has a chance of almost one rounding you (aka very hard hitting mobs) then defensive can be a tad safer otherwise evasive is the go to disc.



also as said above it has to do with damage interval but still evasive will be your go to disc

[captnamazing]

Good info, thanks. From what it seems, Defensive tends to make the hits that DO hit me deal closer to minimal damage, but it's better just to avoid them all together.

[koros]

It's entirely dependent on mob DI. There's a determinable ratio of DB/DI where it switches from evasive as better to defensive. Bad procs definitely favor evasive. Also, it's safer to force smooth off damage spikes with defensive than chance a bad round or two with evasive when tanking very hard hitting things.

[Buriedpast]

Good info, thanks. From what it seems, Defensive tends to make the hits that DO hit me deal closer to minimal damage, but it's better just to avoid them all together.

Quotes like this remind me that 95% of people on P1999 are terrible at EQ. Jesus do you pay any attention what so ever to what happens to you, as your primary role as a warrior?

It's entirely dependent on mob DI. There's a determinable ratio of DB/DI where it switches from evasive as better to defensive. Bad procs definitely favor evasive. Also, it's safer to force smooth off damage spikes with defensive than chance a bad round or two with evasive when tanking very hard hitting things.

100% correct in every word.

As per first post, it is entirely dependant on DI.

[pasi]

Koros summed up the reasoning behind when to use one and not the other.

For specific examples (I'm aware some of these are the Velious revamped versions):

Avenging Gazer (PoA) 75 14.3 .19 Defensive
Azaracks (PoA) 55 6 .11 Evasive
Cazic Thule 200 20 .1 Evasive

Gorgalask (PoA) 50 11 .22 Defensive
Heart Harpie (PoA) 75 15 .2 Defensive
Innoruuk 1 20 20 Defensive
Nagafen 75 7.5 .1 Evasive
Noble Dojorn (PoA) 37 13 .35 Defensive
Overseer of Air (PoA) 82 33 .4 Defensive
Shimmering Meteors (PoA) 113 10.5 .09 Evasive
Sirran the Lunatic 256 90 .35 Defensive
Spirited Harpy (PoA) 60 9.5 .16 Defensive
Thunder Spirits (PoA) 50 5 .1 Evasive
Watchful Guard (PoA) 50 12.5 .25 Defensive

KUNARK
Ancient Guardian wurm 90 12 .13 Evasive
elder shard wurm 90 9 .1 Evasive
Faydedar 76 7.5 .1 Evasive
Froglok Reet x 45 5 .11 Evasive
Myconid 45 5 .11 Evasive
Sebilite Juggernaut 55 6.1 .11 Evasive
Talendor 120 19 .16 Defensive
Trakanon 120 25 .21 Defensive
Vessel Drozlin 75 12 .16 Defensive
Vorash 60 6 .1 Evasive
Xenovorash 70 7.5 .11 Evasive

VELIOUS
a temple guardian 80 10 .13 Evasive
Avatar of War 254 45 .18 Defensive
Dagarn the Destroyer 254 25 .1 Evasive
Derakor the Vindicator 200 25 .13 Evasive
Dlammaz (Kael) 80 21 .26 Defensive
Dozekar the Cursed 200 30 .15 Defensive
elder racnar 156 6 .04 Evasive
Flurry Drake 200 25 .13 Evasive
Frost Giant Sentinels (Kael) 80 21 .26 Defensive
glimmering emerald drake 90 12 .13 Evasive
Gozzrem 180 15 .08 Evasive
Kromzek Captain 60 10 .17 Defensive
Lord Feshlak 200 38 .19 Defensive
Lord Kreizenn 169 39 .23 Defensive
Seneschal Aldikar (Thurg) 90 12 .13 Evasive
Sontalak 125 15 .12 Evasive
Staff Sargeant Drioc (Kael) 45 4.5 .1 Evasive
Statue (Kael) 248 47.3 .19 Defensive
Vehement Wyvern 90 12 .13 Evasive
Velketor 185 35 .19 Defensive
Yelinak 100 25 .25 Defensive
Yetarr (Kael) 110 16 .15 Defensive

[Treats]

Evasive was hardly ever used in Velious, like never.

That list was made AFTER Luclin and Planes of Power.

There were no Alternate Abilities in Velious.

Evasive on a Velious boss got your ass handed to you.

[pasi]

Yeah

The list was for reducing DPS the most, not whats best for tanking.

Avoiding getting 1 or 2 rounded is far superior to optimizing DPS intake - which is why you use defensive on pretty much everything on raids.

[JayN]

Always use evasive until its nerfed into 7 secs of dodge; it its current form Evasive is hugely better then defensive

[koros]

Uh... how on earth can you say that with the clear information we presented?

[Asap]

Quotes like this remind me that 95% of people on P1999 are terrible at EQ. Jesus do you pay any attention what so ever to what happens to you, as your primary role as a warrior?

Are you high? He came here asking for help, obviously he doesn't know much about the disciplines. This isn't RnF, don't be such a dick.

[captnamazing]

Quotes like this remind me that 95% of people on P1999 are terrible at EQ. Jesus do you pay any attention what so ever to what happens to you, as your primary role as a warrior?.


lol this guy.


What is the difference between DB and DI?

[koros]

lol this guy.


What is the difference between DB and DI?

Damage bonus gets added to every successful hit by a mob. Damage interval is a 1-20 interval a mob can hit for.

Let's take avatar of war, max hit 1154, damage bonus of 254, damage interval of 90.

254 + (90 * 20) = 1154 max hit

254 + (90 * 1) = 344 min hit*

it can also do every iteration of 254 + (90 * (1-20)) in between

*Pretty sure a 1 is the lowest DI you can get, but it's been a while.

[koros]

So to break it down simply... a mob with a 500 damage bonus, and a 1 damage interval could hit for between 501 and 520. Not much benefit to lowering the damage interval by half (which defensive does), all it changes is max hit is 510. Win evasive.

On the other hand, take a mob that has a damage bonus of 1 and a damage interval of 500. Min hit 501, Max hit 10,001. Defensive divides damage interval by 2. So mob can hit 501 to 5001. BIG difference, win defensive.

edit: I forget how much of a % evasive increases your avoidance, but it was exactly calculated and modeled. The results posted are accurate.

[captnamazing]

So to break it down simply... a mob with a 500 damage bonus, and a 1 damage interval could hit for between 501 and 520. Not much benefit to lowering the damage interval by half (which defensive does), all it changes is max hit is 510. Win evasive.

On the other hand, take a mob that has a damage bonus of 1 and a damage interval of 500. Min hit 501, Max hit 10,001. Defensive divides damage interval by 2. So mob can hit 501 to 5001. BIG difference, win defensive.

edit: I forget how much of a % evasive increases your avoidance, but it was exactly calculated and modeled. The results posted are accurate.

Great explanation, thank you!

[nilbog]

Changed all these values except the following, because I had questions:

Cazic Thule is listed at maxdmg 600, which is the revamped model.
elder shard wurm? wtf is this. wyvern(sp*)?

[captnamazing]

Changed all these values except the following, because I had questions:

Cazic Thule is listed at maxdmg 600, which is the revamped model.
elder shard wurm? wtf is this. wyvern(sp*)?

velious b-ro

[koros]

Evasive was hardly ever used in Velious, like never.

That list was made AFTER Luclin and Planes of Power.

There were no Alternate Abilities in Velious.

Evasive on a Velious boss got your ass handed to you.

Way after the fact, but for certain mobs evasive was still better in Velious. Dagarn for example, even when you consider (rare) damage spikes.