Will we ever have working endurance?

[tristantio]

I think it would add a lot to have weapon weight be a useful factor in weapon selection, to give a great boon to light weight weapons (particularly in groups or periods without much downtime/long combat duration).

[Rhambuk]

where weapon swings affect endurance loss, and no endurance = no melee swings?

won't happen.

[tristantio]

Do you know if it was technical or balance reasons? And yes, that is what I was referring to, how it was in classic.

[Lune]

I remember on one occasion back in Kunark, somebody in my sarnak group asking me for a "zing", which meant invigorate, to recover their endurance. No idea why, or how the mechanic worked though. Did you stop swinging at low endurance?

[Rhambuk]

Do you know if it was technical or balance reasons? And yes, that is what I was referring to, how it was in classic.

I don't think that was in classic, it was theorized to be and hinted on in several strategy guides but I never ran across not being able to swing my weapons due to lack of endurance. simply unable to jump.

I had a friend on live that played a monk, he said after he ran out of his starting food/drink he never bought any to replace it and he was a human monk so it was pre kunark. Wed hop on his account during luclin/pop raids and he never had food/drink on him.

dont think hed go through expansions without food/drink and put up with having to take E breaks so he can swing his weapons.

[Calabee]

you cant use discs out of endurance..~! bout it lol

[tristantio]

Yes, each melee swing drained some endurance (the yellow bar below health/mana), heavier weapons drained more per swing.

A few classes have spells to recover endurance bar (I believe bards have a song that does it also).

One reason a weapon like the Elegant Darkwood Katana (from kith night) was decent is that its a 2her that only has a 2.0 weight (while something like the Oggok Cleaver at 15 weight would be a big endurance drain).

[tristantio]

This thread gives some more detailed recollection of past stamina experiences http://eqmac.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9774 (they mention things happening when the yellow bar is under 20% and your STA stat is under a certain number, such as a loss of other stats).

A STA greater than (100?) a certain point would remove this stat loss however - I'll keep digging for past info.

[cyryllis]

iirc you ran slower and could not use disc when out of stamina. had nothing to do with being unable to continue attacking (and it was stamina! not endurance...until they added that stat on items. i know, super nit picky)

[Rhambuk]

you cant use discs out of endurance.

pretty much.

[Byrjun]

Being low on stamina/endurance didn't cause you to stop attacking or move slower. Not being able to use discs was probably true, but I didn't play a melee class back then. The only result was a stat penalty if your stamina (attribute) was below 100. As long as your stamina was 100+, the yellow bar didn't mean anything (besides not being able to jump, and I guess discs).

It was never important.

[Incubo]

Played a warrior on live. Heavy weapons drained your stamina and when you ran out, your attack speed went to crap. Yes attack speed, in addition to not being able to jump. Dunno about the small races, it was prolly worse for them, but I remember it happen to my troll with a wurmslayer 15wt and a reaver 25wt. But you don't have to worry about that here, clearly broken.

[tristantio]

Thread here mentions penalties to attack speed/damage done at low stamina http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=6827, continuing to look...

[Byrjun]

I'm pretty sure all the attack speed / damage / movement speed "debuffs" caused by low stamina/endurance were just perpetuated rumor like anti-camp radius.

I could be wrong, I played a shaman in classic so it didn't affect me much. But I do remember discussions w/ friends who played melee classes that all seemed to agree that it didn't really matter much as long as your stamina stat was 100+.

[Dirtnap]

I remember during Luclin watching my dad solo on his Ranger. He had a lot of trouble meleeing things down because he had heavy weapons that drained his endurance really fast. He had to root and use his bow while his stamina regenerated.

[Grimfan]

It's an issue with the titanium client.

[tristantio]

This is probably the best thread I've found out of all of them, it details the following:

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5387

Sub-100 stamina and an empty stamina (endurance) bar decreases STR/AGI/DEX/STA by 10 points each.

[fastboy21]

I'm pretty sure all the attack speed / damage / movement speed "debuffs" caused by low stamina/endurance were just perpetuated rumor like anti-camp radius.

I could be wrong, I played a shaman in classic so it didn't affect me much. But I do remember discussions w/ friends who played melee classes that all seemed to agree that it didn't really matter much as long as your stamina stat was 100+.

devs from live have stated that anti-camp radius was real and existed for at least one camp in the game...careful what you call an eq legend...some of them are actually true.

[bOONDOGGLE]

where weapon swings affect endurance loss, and no endurance = no melee swings?

won't happen.


But it's classic, isn't it?

[bOONDOGGLE]

You are all forgetting the most horrible part of classic Endurance...

which is: Swimming would reduce your endurance

This means that if you fall off the boat in OOT and you are far from land, you will eventually run out of stamina and drown. I know this because it almost happened to me once.

If I am wrong or mistaken, please let me know as it was 14 years ago, but I still get anxious on the boat though.

[Byrjun]

devs from live have stated that anti-camp radius was real and existed for at least one camp in the game...careful what you call an eq legend...some of them are actually true.

Some dev said 1 mob had some sort of "anti-camp radius." Who knows if that is true, but my point still remains that this was highly blown out of proportion by players. A lot of people thought an "anti-camp radius" existed everywhere.

Also, you could still swim with no stamina/endurance.

[Nogdar]

From what I understand, the fact we don't lose stamina while swinging weaps gives a serious advantage to discipline classes over non discipline classes, as it enables them to use any disc, at any time, and for the full duration without having to worry about it whatsoever.

[Rhambuk]

From what I understand, the fact we don't lose stamina while swinging weaps gives a serious advantage to discipline classes over non discipline classes, as it enables them to use any disc, at any time, and for the full duration without having to worry about it whatsoever.

lol not to troll but when do disc classes ever have an advantage over non disc classes?

[Nogdar]

?

What I mean is, in the case of tanks for example, warriors which already have the huge advantage of def disc, also have the added advantage that no matter when they choose/have to use the def disc, their stamina bar will be full, allowing for a full duration def disc. I never played a disc class so I'm not 200% sure how this works but I believe discs drain your stamina bar slowly and the disc ends when the duration timer is over, or the bar is empty?

Also, inb4: Even if they use Def disc at the start of a boss pull when their stamina bar is full classic or not, which is generally the case, the fact that melee swings don't drain the stamina bar means the disc will last longer than it should, if I get it right.

If that's correct, as I said, swing timers not draining stamina gives disc classes an un-classic advantage over non-disc classes. Nothing we can't live with, just pointing it out, with my apologies if I'm totally wrong, which I could be :)

[webrunner5]

I played a Warrior in early 2000. I remember I have to sit a lot to regain stamina. No Disk, no jump and yes stats dropped. They had to cast spells to speed it up. It was a long regen if not. It was just part of the game. :p

[tristantio]

webrunner5 your account sounds pretty accurate compared to what I have been finding related to this.

[Gnomersy]

This was definitely in classic. I remember people having to Unequip wurmslayer pretty often due to its drain on stamina. No yellow bar was like a 50% slow on melee swings. The VS pants for some classes would help alleviate this. Invigor or something like that.

[Gnomersy]

Disc is never going to last a full stamina bar either. Was more of a battle of attrition with stamina than relying on it as a "resource" for discs

[Hawala]

Played a warrior on live. Heavy weapons drained your stamina and when you ran out, your attack speed went to crap. Yes attack speed, in addition to not being able to jump. Dunno about the small races, it was prolly worse for them, but I remember it happen to my troll with a wurmslayer 15wt and a reaver 25wt. But you don't have to worry about that here, clearly broken.

Stamina affects HP and endurance, so of course it affects small races, who have less stamina.

I also played a human warrior on live, and when I ran out of endurance I could not run, instead you walk like you are critically injured.

You can barely swing weapons -- i.e. you have to wait until you regain enough endurance to make your next swing.

I know swimming was affected more severely, but I'm not 100% sure what happened, I don't think you'd drown.

You also weren't able to use discs.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Yeah I definitely remember endurance being an issue on my troll warrior. Even above 100 sta I still think it affected your swing rate and max hit (again, iirc).

This was why Lamentations costed a pretty penny and why wurmslayers were 2k on ct.

Intredasting indeed.

[Droog007]

I remember running out of stamina/endurance (the yellow bar) would nerf your attack speed. I remember having 100 stamina (stat) was an important way to counter this (not sure if it increased regen or just prevented [most of] the negative effects of an empty bar). Other important things: light weapons, and long-duration buffs that countered the drain (augmentation line, acumen). I don't remember how the yellow bar affected disciplines in this era... maybe they would just fail if your bar was empty/too low. However, disciplines actually consuming endurance came much later.

At any rate, it was a matter of no small concern for classic era melees...

[Jimjam]

Skipped reading responses, but I had a ranger on test and pvp server, early kunark. I remember running out of yellow would ruin my attack speed and I'm fairly sure it toggled the run button to walk.

[mishurza]

You are all forgetting the most horrible part of classic Endurance...

which is: Swimming would reduce your endurance

This means that if you fall off the boat in OOT and you are far from land, you will eventually run out of stamina and drown. I know this because it almost happened to me once.

If I am wrong or mistaken, please let me know as it was 14 years ago, but I still get anxious on the boat though.

This is definitely not true. One of my very first EQ experiences was falling off the boat in OOT and swimming for a few hours. Yes it used up your stamina but when you ran out you just swam slower, there was no drowning.

[Skittlez]

I think it would add a lot to have weapon weight be a useful factor in weapon selection, to give a great boon to light weight weapons (particularly in groups or periods without much downtime/long combat duration).

This guy again. Dude, endurance only affected jumping in combat. It also would make you sink if you used auto-run while swimming. That's it. Stop posting dumb things and use the search button. This is only the 500th time someone has said this same stupid shit.

[Varren]

This guy again. Dude, endurance only affected jumping in combat. It also would make you sink if you used auto-run while swimming. That's it. Stop posting dumb things and use the search button. This is only the 500th time someone has said this same stupid shit.

easy now

[Skittlez]

This is definitely not true. One of my very first EQ experiences was falling off the boat in OOT and swimming for a few hours. Yes it used up your stamina but when you ran out you just swam slower, there was no drowning.

You would drown if using auto run

[Droog007]

You would drown if using auto run

You're either remembering wrong, or you're anti-classic...

It's possible that running out of yellow bar could cause you to drown - perhaps if your swim skill was low enough, frame rate crappy enough (affects sink rate while levitating and swimming, and lev bounce frequency) to the point that you couldn't swim faster than you were sinking.

Empty yellow bar did a lot more than make it impossible to jump. Shit's not classic.

[Dirtnap]

Even if the client is hardcoded to prevent this change, I doubt it would happen. I would love to see this change though. I hate this pseudo classic we have now.

[JayN]

this only happened for a short time, discs had like no timers on them when they were first introduced, they would only drain your sta/endurance bar, that acted as the timer. (more sta/more disc time)

They nerfed it to a much larger pool and time limits on discs. I believe it was done to combat unlimited duration slay undead disc for paladins and other similar cases like never ending Defensive discs for wars.

Once the clicky sta/end items came out you could just have someone chain click them on a disc'd target and theyd stay in that disc indefinitely.

It was just to strong like this so they made all the clickies 100hp heals instead of sta/end heal and put time limits on disc durations.

I still remember Paladins slaying the shit out of Lguk like clearing the zone with unlimited slay undead disc and myself tanking Velious bosses indefinably before they nerfed discs mechanics

[Skittlez]

You're either remembering wrong, or you're anti-classic...

It's possible that running out of yellow bar could cause you to drown - perhaps if your swim skill was low enough, frame rate crappy enough (affects sink rate while levitating and swimming, and lev bounce frequency) to the point that you couldn't swim faster than you were sinking.

Empty yellow bar did a lot more than make it impossible to jump. Shit's not classic.

No, I am right. Not gonna go in to how I know for a fact though. Shits embarrassing.


It's easily one of my most memorable mistakes from classic

[hynch]

I remember asking for a "zing" quite often on my warrior during the LOIO and OT days. I had a Kunzar Ku'juch and a SSoY and would get low on stamina after about 10 or so chain pulls. I also seem to remember asking for Acumen whenever I saw a 60 shaman.

I switched to a monk shortly before Luclin released and I don't remember him ever having trouble with stamina.

[Clark]

where weapon swings affect endurance loss, and no endurance = no melee swings?

won't happen.

[tristantio]

Any chance this will ever happen? Is it worth adding to the bug forums?

[Nilasbik]

i would rather see ac fixed than see stamina fixed. They took it out for good reason... although what i remember about it was that it caused my gnome wizard to drown in oot because i couldnt swim fast enough to stay afloat... fell off the boat and couldnt find my way to an island and i couldnt gate because i had no mana. Back when fizzles raped your mana and i was lvl4... worst exp with stamina. I also remember asking for zing on melee toons.

[radditsu]

Pretty sure this is a client side issue. I am not sure it would display properly? Titanium was a few endurance changes past classic.

[Nilasbik]

They changed stamina during luclin i believe, maybe pop but im pretty sure during luclin. Titanium is 10 expansions so well after stamina was changed.

[lecompte]

Any chance this will ever happen? Is it worth adding to the bug forums?

If it is a bug and you can find supporting websites, yes it should be posted in the bug forum if it isn't already. Do a search first.

I remember during Luclin watching my dad solo on his Ranger. He had a lot of trouble meleeing things down because he had heavy weapons that drained his endurance really fast. He had to root and use his bow while his stamina health regenerated.

Replace stamina with health :).

EDIT and what is the command for strikethrough?

[Wrench]

Any chance this will ever happen? Is it worth adding to the bug forums?

maybe and no

The entire stamina system does not work. You should also lose stamina when swinging a weapon with weight. Zing/Invigor should work, etc.

We have tried twice in the past to recreate it, but nothing good enough yet. Until we can fix it correctly, the endurance system will remain.

seriously, this took me 10 seconds to search and find

you spam some of these same questions (like the max faction one) again and again and again, even if you already have an answer, r u like that guy on memento?

[Scrubosaur]

I remember warrior telling enchanters that they didn't want haste because it would cause their stamina to drop faster.

[phacemeltar]

It's an issue with the titanium client.

this, from what ive heard

but trist, not to inflate your ego but, if anyone can fix it i think you can. i think alot of these client-side fixes (night blindness) could be fixed with a patched version of the client

[Frug]

this, from what ive heard

but trist, not to inflate your ego but, if anyone can fix it i think you can. i think alot of these client-side fixes (night blindness) could be fixed with a patched version of the client

They have server side code though; likely not client.

[phacemeltar]

They have server side code though; likely not client.

true, but i believe these server-side fixes to be compensation for the client limitations. probably just to totally disable endurance. i would really like to see this sort of change occur.

[Clark]

It's an issue with the titanium client.