Finalized Project 1999 Raiding Policy

[Sirken]

Greetings my fellow Norrathians! The Project1999 Staff is proud to bring you the new server Raiding Policy, which will go into effect immediately. Please read and familiarize yourself with this new Raid Policy before you log back into the game, and pass the information along to your guilds.

The server wide raid suspension will end at 12:01amEST Tuesday Jan 14. Raid Targets will be fully respawned within 24 hours of that time.

Below you will find a link to both the new server raid policy, as well as a list of raid targets, which class gets the next target, and whom (if anyone) is locked out.

http://www.project1999.com/raid.php


The staff would also like to thank all of the guilds for coming together to try and hammer out an agreement, and opening lines of communication with each other. We feel that this is the best policy moving forward with the server. We also strongly encourage the guilds to continue to keep open lines of communication with each other, and to try to resolve your issues between each other before involving the CSR Staff.

Thank you for playing on Project1999!

The Staff

[muggro]

Looks awesome. Thank you to everyone that was involved with this. My only question so far is variance. Any specific policy on variance going forward?

[Ella`Ella]

Variance?
Amount of Repops?
All Alts/Mains to camp out at WC?

[bizzum]

Raid Targets will be fully respawned within 24 hours of that time.

Will this be a rolling repop or a full repop. Will the bag limit be a factor for Tuesday?

[Lostprophets]

is Maestro not getting put up on the list?

I know The hardcores don't see him as a priority or whatever but I'm sure some of the lesser guilds still need hands for epics.

Also, what about Noble cycle?

[bizzum]

Did the whole portion of repop mobs staying within their respective current classes get bombed? I see that the bag limit wasn't considered at all, but are we now in a position where everything is FFA during a repop and its a 2 bag limit for non VP mobs?

[Kope]

Did the whole portion of repop mobs staying within their respective current classes get bombed? I see that the bag limit wasn't considered at all, but are we now in a position where everything is FFA during a repop and its a 2 bag limit for non VP mobs?

I believe the mobs that pop are locked into their class cycle, but there is a 2 mob bag limit for the FFA portion.

[bizzum]

I believe the mobs that pop are locked into their class cycle, but there is a 2 mob bag limit for the FFA portion.

I thought the 'exclusive to a class' meant the VP mobs, rather than Class R/C designations that the mob currently has. Clarification would be nice, just to be sure!

[Powtle]

Thanks Staff for those rules.
[Edit] Time is not that bad :p I misunderstood.

Some questions though if you don't mind:

1) Can we renegotiate the 6h kill window and the 2 bag limit as we see fit with other guilds?
2) Setting a raid in EJ at FoB zoneline for Severilous is ok if there are only 2 trackers roaming by Severilous spawn point?
3) Could the Dojorn agreement be acted here? Something like: No guild shall kill the Overseer of Air. A guild can only kill Noble Dojorn during its allocated Plane of Sky rotation slot.

[Derubael]

I believe the mobs that pop are locked into their class cycle, but there is a 2 mob bag limit for the FFA portion.

There is a 2 bag limit per guild on repops, this applies regardless of what class a guild is or what cycle a mob is spawning under.

Thanks Staff for this rules :)
And thanks for the euro-friendly time (<- irony here)

Some questions though if you don't mind:

1) Can we renegotiate the 6h kill window and the 2 bag limit as we see fit with other guilds?
2) Setting a raid in EJ at FoB zoneline for Severilous is ok if there are only 2 trackers roaming by Severilous spawn point?
3) Could the Dojorn agreement be acted here? Something like: No guild shall kill the Overseer of Air. A guild can only kill Noble Dojorn during its allocated Plane of Sky rotation slot.

1) The 6 hour kill window is only a time limit until the mob becomes FFA and open to both classes. During these 6 hours, lockouts still apply to class R guilds that have them for that mob. Once the 6 hours has passed, anyone can engage the mob regardless of class or lockouts. The limit itself and the application of lockouts cannot be renegotiated between guilds.

2) This is correct.

3) For right now, we are going to stick with our hands off policy in Plane of Sky. If all the guilds agree that they feel some kind of rule set is needed within that plane, it's something we can revisit.

As a 'heads-up' for all the Class R guilds out there, if two guilds engage and kill a Class R target, a lockout on that mob will apply to both guilds. If you don't want the lockout to apply to your guild, don't get someone on the hate list for that target while it's being killed by another guild :D

[Powtle]

For right now, we are going to stick with our hands off policy in Plane of Sky. If all the guilds agree that they feel some kind of rule set is needed within that plane, it's something we can revisit.
Fair enough. I think we can work that out within ourselves.

As a 'heads-up' for all the Class R guilds out there, if two guilds engage and kill a Class R target, a lockout on that mob will apply to both guilds. If you don't want the lockout to apply to your guild, don't get someone on the hate list for that target while it's being killed by another guild :D
Good to know, thanks.

[phiren]

As a 'heads-up' for all the Class R guilds out there, if two guilds engage and kill a Class R target, a lockout on that mob will apply to both guilds. If you don't want the lockout to apply to your guild, don't get someone on the hate list for that target while it's being killed by another guild :D


Totally cool with this,, but I think it leaves a lot of gray area. By you stating 'hate list', I'm assuming you are going to be automatically grab this information from the code... which makes me a tad nervous and I just want to clarify...

Some scenarios:
#1) Bobby is running through skyfire to BW. Bobby sees Talendor being killed and goes in for a closer look. Bobby gets blasted by Talendor AE. Bobby is now on hate list, and Bobby's entire guild is SOL for next 2 spawns.

#2) <more likely> 2 Guilds from Class R are *competing* for Talendor. Guild A and B get there about the same time for the pull... both have members on the hate list. Guild A gets the kill... Guild B was on the hate list, but did not help with the kill.

#3) <more likely> Bobby is running through SF and sees Guild A killing Talendor. Wants to join in on the fun action. Bobby's entire guild is now SOL for the next 2 spawns?

If this is being done through the database automatically... maybe come up with a good # to avoid these scenarios. If 5+ members from Guild A are on hate list, then Guild A has "OFFICIALLY" participated. I'd be totally cool with that and that sounds easy enough on your side ?

*Edit*: One of the main reasons I ask is because I've been approached by someone in Class-C , good friend of AG, who wants to help us out. He said he can't wait to help us with some of these kills. Is he going to get himself and his entire guild banned?

I would hate to see BDA or another Class-C guild be too scared to send 1-2 guys to help us out, and teach us some cool stuff while killing these things.

I'm actually fine with whatever the answer is, but with your statement, I would tell AG guys to not help ANYONE , EVER (which I would not like doing). And if a dragon is up in their zone, /q out immediately and dont come back for an hour.


~Phiren

[bizzum]

2) Setting a raid in EJ at FoB zoneline for Severilous is ok if there are only 2 trackers roaming by Severilous spawn point?

2) This is correct.

By 'setting', do you mean positioning after a pop? The way I have always interpreted the 'no camping out a force in the vicinity of a raid target' has been that you shouldn't even have a raid force either a) in a place to engage instantly and bring to a place in the zone with a full raid camped out (i.e. how Sev/Fay etc. have been for forever) or b) camped out in a dungeon right next to the spawn (i.e. old campout methods for Trak/VS). With that answer to the question, it now sounds like the only things that will change are Trak/VS (and the off campout in 2F PoHate/NE Corner PoFear) but the outdoor dragons really see no change.

The way the rules are written out right now have a lot of room for interpretation and are bringing up a lot of questions. Could we please get some clarification and answers to previous questions as to what you are envisioning as to make this go as smooth as possible and avoid any finger pointing or issues on day 1?

This is correct, mobs will still retain their respective class cycle on a repop. As such, some will fall into FFA on a repop, these FFA kills have a bag limit of 2 per guild for that repop.

Putting in the rules directly that Class A/R designated mobs as well as VP mobs don't count towards the bag limit (essentially only the 3 FFA mobs do?) really should be put in writing because even having read every post in this forum prior, I had no clue that is what was decided on...

[Funkutron5000]

Putting in the rules directly that Class A/R designated mobs as well as VP mobs don't count towards the bag limit (essentially only the 3 FFA mobs do?) really should be put in writing because even having read every post in this forum prior, I had no clue that is what was decided on...

Big Rog clarified this in Server Chat.

C guilds can get up to 2 FFA + C mobs (non-including VP)

R guilds can get up to 2 FFA+ R mobs.

After 6 hours the R/C mob designation disappears and every mob becomes FFA (2 bag limit still applies till 24 hours from spawn, though and may be subject to change?)

[bizzum]

That's not what I read in this thread (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1272319#post1272319) at all...

The only mobs exempt from the bag limit are exclusive mobs.. the section RIGHT above that line explains what an exclusive mob is. Why would it be assumed that it applies to FFA mobs?

Sounds like a 2 bag limit for the first 24 hours for ANY mob (whether it is class C, class R, or FFA) outside of VP for ALL guilds. After 6 hours everything becomes FFA so if a guild hasn't kill 2 mobs after 6 hours they can go for any target they wish, but are still subject to a 2 bag limit until 24 hours after.

[arsenalpow]

Zagum is correct. Upon a full repop you get two mobs for your bag regardless of tier assignment. So there may be mobs slated for C and FFA. You get to kill two. VP is excluded.

I made the same mistake. I had assumed that the bag limit only applied to mobs that feel into their FFA cycle on a repop but Rogean clarified it.

[sanluen]

Some scenarios:
#1) Bobby is running through skyfire to BW. Bobby sees Talendor being killed and goes in for a closer look. Bobby gets blasted by Talendor AE. Bobby is now on hate list, and Bobby's entire guild is SOL for next 2 spawns.

#2) <more likely> 2 Guilds from Class R are *competing* for Talendor. Guild A and B get there about the same time for the pull... both have members on the hate list. Guild A gets the kill... Guild B was on the hate list, but did not help with the kill.

#3) <more likely> Bobby is running through SF and sees Guild A killing Talendor. Wants to join in on the fun action. Bobby's entire guild is now SOL for the next 2 spawns?


1 - Getting AE'd by a mob does not put you on the hate list.

2 - This, I think, can be a concern. If two guilds are staging up for a kill (i.e. port up in Hate for Inny) and the pull is dragged over someone's camp, this could be an issue. Of course I would tell my guild to camp out right away anyway, but especially if you have mobsi n camp that might not be fully feasible before the raid target dies.

3 - Make sure your guild knows the rules when it comes to raid targets. The other end of this spectrum is 'why should a guild be raid suspended for one member who trained another raid?' I am of the mindset that a guild should be responsible for the actions of its members.


That said, perhaps there could be a limit to how many people are on the hate list before a guild is associated with that mob? Say 1-2 does not count as guild involvement. That way if trackers/pullers/lost characters happen into the encounter logs their guild is not penalized.

[Rogean]

Not to get into specifics about how our system works but it was designed with a small amount of leniency for a player or two getting aggro and not locking their guild out, provided it was a failed FTE attempt or accidental aggro.

Guilds are still strongly advised to follow the rules of FTE. Let a mob reset before engaging. If you don't have the FTE shout, don't engage it.

[phiren]

Looks like Rogean has spoken, thank you!

Although that clears up a lot of concerns I had about the accidental aggro / FTE situation ...

I would still be interested in knowing if 1-2 people from BDA can come help AG with a kill. And if 1-2 can help, can 3? Or are you going to be really strict about this and force guilds to only work within their own ranks?

Not arguing / debating at all, whatever your decision is... just looking for some clarification because this WILL come up 30 mins after the first dragon pops within a lot of the Class-R guilds. We have all offered to help each other. That doesn't mean BDA is going to send 30 people to join our 5. But I'm sure we'd all like to know if we can ask for assistance without impacting their whole guild for the next month.



~Phiren

[Derubael]

Zagum is correct. Upon a full repop you get two mobs for your bag regardless of tier assignment. So there may be mobs slated for C and FFA. You get to kill two. VP is excluded.


Yes, this ^. My original post was incorrect and has been edited to reflect that.

[Funkutron5000]

Yes, this ^. My original post was incorrect and has been edited to reflect that.

To be clear, a C guild can kill 2 combined of FFA and C and an R guild can kill 2 combined of R and FFA, right?

It's not just kill 2 of whatever the hell outside of VP and then C can go into VP and R can't (unless they wish to become C)?

My brains has become tangle.

[doraf]

Add an extra 0 to the Raid Policy width and it's rockin!
http://www.project1999.com/raid.php

[arsenalpow]

To be clear, a C guild can kill 2 combined of FFA and C and an R guild can kill 2 combined of R and FFA, right?

It's not just kill 2 of whatever the hell outside of VP and then C can go into VP and R can't (unless they wish to become C)?

My brains has become tangle.

There's two different parts to this. I need Yendor to make a flow chart probably.

Full repops (the 2-4 a month)
Natural spawns from traditional timers (with new minimal variance)

During a full repop class C (competitive) guilds have a bag limit of two for 24 hours. They may kill anything that is currently in a FFA or class C cycle. VP is not included in this bag limit.

During a full repop class R (restricted) guilds have a bag limit of two for 24 hours. They may kill anything that is currently in a FFA or class R cycle.

With natural spawns, guilds can only kill mobs within their cycle. After 6 hours any mob not killed goes into FFA.

The juggling of the 24 hour bag limit and 6 hour FFA cycle still kinda throws me off but I believe the 24 hour bag limit timer takes precedence. Rogean could just change everything to 6 hours which might alleviate some of the confusion.

[Funkutron5000]

Ok, that's what I originally thought. People have been posting so damn many other takes on it that I was confuse.

[arsenalpow]

Additionally, I believe restricted guilds may go after competitive tier mobs at any time BUT by killing a mob designated competitive immediately places them in the competitive guild tier.

[Rogean]

Add an extra 0 to the Raid Policy width and it's rockin!
http://www.project1999.com/raid.php

Looks fine to me.

Show me a screenshot.

[Rogean]

Update: The bag limit duration has been changed to 12 hours. This bag limit will still apply after a mob goes FFA due to a 6 hour life span.

[doraf]

Looks fine to me.

Show me a screenshot.

This sales driven company I work for forced us all into MS Dynamics CRM and we have to run IE. I keep using it by default throughout the day now. :(

It looks good in FireFox and Chrome.

I copied the source and edited the width to 1000 and it seems to view fine in all 3 browsers.

IE Screenshot:
Old (http://s1375.photobucket.com/user/dorafheed/media/raid_zps845608de.png.html?sort=3&o=0)

New (http://s1375.photobucket.com/user/dorafheed/media/new1000_zps1d369a37.jpg.html?filters[user]=138909739&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0)

Snippet (http://s1375.photobucket.com/user/dorafheed/media/snippet_zpsfcd9872c.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1)

[Rogean]

The correct change is to just remove that width, since it's a single TD table.

Does it look better now?

[doraf]

The correct change is to just remove that width, since it's a single TD table.

Does it look better now?

Ah, makes sense. That's looks great! :)

[Ella`Ella]

All guilds start out as Class R until they kill Class C content, in which case they would then be promoted and locked into that class?

[Erati]

http://nooooooooooooooo.com/

[Lostprophets]

All guilds start out as Class R until they kill Class C content, in which case they would then be promoted and locked into that class?

In Previous Staff Proposals TMO/FE/IB were already Considered Class C guilds or "Teir 1 Guilds". I would assume this is unchanged as nothing noted.

But Rogean / Sirken / Deru should confirm so people don't get into trouble. :p

[Nune]

Variance? Unless I missed it somewhere, I didn't see this addressed. It was going to be greatly reduced I thought, can we get a confirm or deny on that? That has a huge impact on how involved my guild plans on being with raids.

[Anichek]

But Rogean / Sirken / Deru should confirm so people don't get into trouble. :p

Rogean confirmed to me and a few of us last night - nobody is designated because they can make decisions on the first pop or whatever.

Server staff doesn't need to dictate it - the guilds know what they want and will go for the mobs that they want to set their position.

[phiren]

Not to get into specifics about how our system works but it was designed with a small amount of leniency for a player or two getting aggro and not locking their guild out, provided it was a failed FTE attempt or accidental aggro.

Guilds are still strongly advised to follow the rules of FTE. Let a mob reset before engaging. If you don't have the FTE shout, don't engage it.


Do you have any thoughts on 1-2 people from other guilds helping another guild, even if it's across Class lines?

Can someone from TMO assist BDA? Can someone from BDA assist Taken? And what's the limit on the 'someones' ? 1 person? 4 people?


~Phiren

[bktroost]

Can we please update the Class R and Class C guilds roster? Lord Bob is no longer around and Asgard needs to be added. Also FE merged with TMO so FE needs to be removed. Should look like this:

Class-R Guilds
Asgard
Azure Guard
Bregan D'Aerth
Divinity
Europa
Illuminati
Indignation
Taken

Class-C Guilds
Inglorious Bastards
The Mystical Order

[Erati]

Asgard will get automatically added when they kill an R tier mob.

[Erati]

would it be possible to get this thread cleaned up and the OP sticked so it stays at the top ?

its kind of buried among other stuff and the contents of the OP are pretty important for new members of raiding guilds to read up about the raid scene rules if they are already on the forums and not the homepage.

thank you in advance either way

[doraf]

Can we please update the Class R and Class C guilds roster? Lord Bob is no longer around and Asgard needs to be added. Also FE merged with TMO so FE needs to be removed. Should look like this:

Class-R Guilds
Asgard
Azure Guard
Bregan D'Aerth
Divinity
Europa
Illuminati
Indignation
Taken

Class-C Guilds
Inglorious Bastards
The Mystical Order

Leave FE on the list for now.

[Sirken]

Leave FE on the list for now.

not happening. TMO doesnt need two slots. if the guilds separate, FE will have to re earn their class C spot.

[doraf]

not happening. TMO doesnt need two slots. if the guilds separate, FE will have to re earn their class C spot.

If FE raids, it will be Class-R in Velious and I will lead it.

[Artaenc]

If FE raids, it will be Class-R in Velious and I will lead it.

Will that be the Class R FTE division of TMO?

[Ella`Ella]

Leave FE on the list for now.

No. End of rumor.

[bktroost]

If FE raids, it will be Class-R in Velious and I will lead it.

whoa,whoa,whoa! Splinter guild?

[Pint]

Will that be the Class R FTE division of TMO?

Hold up a sec, I thought we were tmo's class R fte division??

[Erati]

bump thread to get it cleaned up/ stickied for information

and it turns into trolling lol