Doraf Proposal - Comments from the Unwashed Masses

[citizen1080]

Doraf Proposal from Raid Discussion Forum

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- Despawn all raid targets. 6 or so random repops a month.
- Leave Ragefire on regular 24hr timer between repops.
- 2 or 3 bag limit outside of VP.
- VP could stay on it's regular timer and not be affected by the repops. Once your guild gets enough keys then go to VP and kill stuff.
- No rotations, everyone competes and every guild that can kill gets kills.

Class-Reject only seems to log in for these.
Class-Cool has no life and always logs in for these.
NO MORE CLASSES!


Thread here --> http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134927
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Very solid proposal in my opinion. Has elements Loraen has suggested in the past as well as solid ideas from other proposals as well.

Repops are the only cure to our current problem and this allows repops while still not flooding the economy with loot.

With the new PnP rules in place I see this as a viable and fun option for everyone involved in the raiding scene. Best of all. It is stupid simple, no room for rule lawyering, low staff involvement.

#winning

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Doraf Proposal from Raid Discussion Forum

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- Despawn all raid targets. 6 or so random repops a month.
- Leave Ragefire on regular 24hr timer between repops.
- 2 or 3 bag limit outside of VP.
- VP could stay on it's regular timer and not be affected by the repops. Once your guild gets enough keys then go to VP and kill stuff.
- No rotations, everyone competes and every guild that can kill gets kills.

Class-Reject only seems to log in for these.
Class-Cool has no life and always logs in for these.
NO MORE CLASSES!


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Very solid proposal in my opinion. Has elements Loraen has suggested in the past as well as solid ideas from other proposals as well.

Repops are the only cure to our current problem and this allows repops while still not flooding the economy with loot.

With the new PnP rules in place I see this as a viable and fun option for everyone involved in the raiding scene. Best of all. It is stupid simple, no room for rule lawyering, low staff involvement.

#winning

Most of these guilds don't want to race for targets. This has racing for targets. They won't want it. A 2 bag limit (2 fe 2 ib 2 tmo) leaves them to coordinate the big targets on each repop making it even less likely a smaller guild will get a target on one of these repops.

edit: Furthermore, you're delirious if you think big guilds like tmo are going to remain as one large guild when a bag limit per guild is put in place. Turn into several guilds who happen to ally for vp :p

[JayN]

if you killed it last week you dont get to go after it this week; nuff said end of story.

All this over complications bs is bullshit

[kotton05]

i agree jayn, something simple like that would be easiest

[citizen1080]

Howdy sir! How goes Starbound? =D

If the big guilds did do as you suggest that would be tantamount to a T1 rotation which has been the main thing they have been raging against since this raid discussion has started. Not saying it wouldn't happen but that would be pretty hilarious.


As for the bag limit creating guild splits, I believe that was covered in another thread and the PnP rules as something the staff would not tolerate. Obv that would cause more policing for them but im pretty sure they agreed to enforce that somewhere.

I could be wrong!


Regardless, no first draft is going to be perfect. However, with some modification and suggestions from both casual and HC guilds this could be the template for a successful resolution.

[Visual]

Go back to your dojigvbnmredcvo guild OPee

[citizen1080]

if you killed it last week you dont get to go after it this week; nuff said end of story.

All this over complications bs is bullshit

Sounds like a rotation

[citizen1080]

Go back to your dojigvbnmredcvo guild OPee

I have nothing to do with that guild. Shit would be a PR nightmare =p

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Howdy sir! How goes Starbound? =D

If the big guilds did do as you suggest that would be tantamount to a T1 rotation which has been the main thing they have been raging against since this raid discussion has started. Not saying it wouldn't happen but that would be pretty hilarious.


As for the bag limit creating guild splits, I believe that was covered in another thread and the PnP rules as something the staff would not tolerate. Obv that would cause more policing for them but im pretty sure they agreed to enforce that somewhere.

I could be wrong!


Regardless, no first draft is going to be perfect. However, with some modification and suggestions from both casual and HC guilds this could be the template for a successful resolution.

At the end o the day, these rules are the staff facilitating loot (especially epic required mobs) into the hands of those who have been waiting about 2 years now. Doesn't seem unreasonable, but at the same time, I think I'd prefer it if they begged :3

[doraf]

I appreciate the post Bob, but as you can see in the raid discussions it will be ignored/stonewalled by the people there who only wish to argue amongst one another.

[Visual]

I'm kidding Bob, I have nothing against you or your guild doji

[Crosswind]

So a lot of stuff that people do in these things is look at the mean values of distributions (How many, per month, on average, etc).

I think it's valuable to look at the distribution itself. This has 6 days out of the month when people raid, and 0 raiding outside of it. Assume (BIG ASSUMPTION HERE) that a given player is around and available for 8 hours a day. He's got 2 days a month where raiding will happen for him.

That sort of sucks, and I suspect (no evidence here) that it's the reason that the sirken plan, which called for repops to be the only things regular guilds could raid, was rejected. Some form of continuous raiding is enjoyable, so distributing those targets throughout the month is, to my mind, preferable.

Make sense?

[citizen1080]

I'm kidding Bob, I have nothing against you or your guild doji

I hate you sir ><

Starting to regret not deleting Korrath when I owned him

[doraf]

The entire bit is demoralizing, but that's what happens when you put a bunch of Type A personalities into a forum and tell them to "negotiate."

[HeallunRumblebelly]

I hate you sir ><

Starting to regret not deleting Korrath when I owned him

Bob, any chance you can run down and rebuy plemtorr? :3 I miss that goofy lizard.

[citizen1080]

I still have Plemtorr! One of the last account I acquired before the trade ban was put in place.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

I still have Plemtorr! One of the last account I acquired before the trade ban was put in place.

...dog, you mean you can't even sell plemtorr anymore? That was plemtorr's favorite thing to do, was be sold.

such a wildcard character. no real rhyme or reason to why he would cost as much as he would.

[Reguiy]

Looks good. Though I'd make VP repop with the rest of the server at least half the time. Give the t1 guilds a choice.

[Hitpoint]

I'd rather do the 1/1/1 with a few very small changes.

[citizen1080]

...dog, you mean you can't even sell plemtorr anymore? That was plemtorr's favorite thing to do, was be sold.

such a wildcard character. no real rhyme or reason to why he would cost as much as he would.

He was a dirty whore there for awhile. But I saw the writing on the wall and snagged him before account trade ban went into effect. Always planned on him being a perma buy instead of an investment.

Guised Iksar shaman w/ AoN is just too sexy.

[Pan]

The entire bit is demoralizing, but that's what happens when you put a bunch of Type A personalities into a forum and tell them to "negotiate."

Agree. Add to the mix that we never got the definition of a consensus, who actually has a vote (1 guild one vote or gms/T1(for want of better term)/T2(see previous)), what an acceptable fix is, who the arbiter is (was GMs for a while, then Rog stepped in), etc.

Tough tough tough to negotiate anything meaningful under those ambiguous conditions as we've seen.

If I Ran the Circus (see Dr. Seuss here), I'd have laid out the negotiating constraints/construct in advance.

If I were in charge of negotiating, I'd get together with my fellow negotiators and push this issue before I did much more negotiating/shitflinging/hoping/etc.

Just my .02. YMMV.

[JayN]

Agree. Add to the mix that we never got the definition of a consensus, who actually has a vote (1 guild one vote or gms/T1(for want of better term)/T2(see previous)), what an acceptable fix is, who the arbiter is (was GMs for a while, then Rog stepped in), etc.

Tough tough tough to negotiate anything meaningful under those ambiguous conditions as we've seen.

If I Ran the Circus (see Dr. Seuss here), I'd have laid out the negotiating constraints/construct in advance.

If I were in charge of negotiating, I'd get together with my fellow negotiators and push this issue before I did much more negotiating/shitflinging/hoping/etc.

Just my .02. YMMV.

They (Rogean mainly) dont care they are trolling the raiders, they would have done something by now; like Sirken tried to do.

this is just trolling

[HeallunRumblebelly]

He was a dirty whore there for awhile. But I saw the writing on the wall and snagged him before account trade ban went into effect. Always planned on him being a perma buy instead of an investment.

Guised Iksar shaman w/ AoN is just too sexy.

Bob and his insider trading.

Speaking of...

How you feeling about a donals nerf with velious launch? Think we'll get 2 patches or just one big rape on velious launch?

[citizen1080]

I think (and hope) that Donals Bp will be nerfed on launch. It will trivialize Velious content.

And there is precedent for this when they nerfed BD resist gear as it would have trivialized Velious as well. (though that may be a little different as it was put into game before it should have been)

However, classically speaking there should be no where near as many Donals BP's in rotation...so we will see what King Nilbog decides.

Summary:

If I had a Donals BP, I would have already sold it.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

I think (and hope) that Donals Bp will be nerfed on launch. It will trivialize Velious content.

And there is precedent for this when they nerfed BD resist gear as it would have trivialized Velious as well. (though that may be a little different as it was put into game before it should have been)

However, classically speaking there should be no where near as many Donals BP's in rotation...so we will see what King Nilbog decides.

Summary:

If I had a Donals BP, I would have already sold it.

I wonder if bob has enough pull with market decisions to cause a great donals bp sell-off. I'm worried, really. It's just...it'll be the most insane item to have if it isn't wrecked. If it is, it won't be worth the metal it's stamped out of :p Ugh. It's also a matter of how close velious is...also unknown!

[Splorf22]

Also Bob, to get your thread back on target.

I don't hate Doraf's proposal. I think repops do a lot to make competition more palatable. But at the same time, I would really like to see a certain amount of carebear reinjected into the raid scene. EQ Live during this period was in no way as nasty as things are now, and I think any real fix to the raid scene has to include some restrictions so people don't go fucking nuts.

Anyway I think Rogean and Nilbog have pretty much decided on the 1/1/1 plan at this point, so anything we say is fairly academic.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Also Bob, to get your thread back on target.

I don't hate Doraf's proposal. I think repops do a lot to make competition more palatable. But at the same time, I would really like to see a certain amount of carebear reinjected into the raid scene. EQ Live during this period was in no way as nasty as things are now, and I think any real fix to the raid scene has to include some restrictions so people don't go fucking nuts.

Anyway I think Rogean and Nilbog have pretty much decided on the 1/1/1 plan at this point, so anything we say is fairly academic.

Big Heallun called this weeks back. We were never given the terms of how negotiations would work. How votes would work. Because in the end they were going to do what they wanted to anyway.

[citizen1080]

I should have kept that account for Velious.

Iksar shaman is pretty hard to beat imo with all the sexy all/all gear


WTB Vindi BP - Pst



Also Bob, to get your thread back on target.

I don't hate Doraf's proposal. I think repops do a lot to make competition more palatable. But at the same time, I would really like to see a certain amount of carebear reinjected into the raid scene. EQ Live during this period was in no way as nasty as things are now, and I think any real fix to the raid scene has to include some restrictions so people don't go fucking nuts.

Anyway I think Rogean and Nilbog have pretty much decided on the 1/1/1 plan at this point, so anything we say is fairly academic.

You are most likely right that it is academic at this point. However, I am not a fan of rotations really. I don't hate them, but given the choice I would rather race for mobs during a repop than log on a 2pm sunday to walk in and burn down VS in 30 seconds.

Granted either scenario is a huge step forward for the server compared to the old system.

[doraf]

Also Bob, to get your thread back on target.

I don't hate Doraf's proposal. I think repops do a lot to make competition more palatable. But at the same time, I would really like to see a certain amount of carebear reinjected into the raid scene. EQ Live during this period was in no way as nasty as things are now, and I think any real fix to the raid scene has to include some restrictions so people don't go fucking nuts.

Anyway I think Rogean and Nilbog have pretty much decided on the 1/1/1 plan at this point, so anything we say is fairly academic.

Splorf, PM me ideas that you have or I can jump into your vent or you can hop into ours. I think we both access to the mumble as well. Let's try and come up with something that benefits the server w/o totally trashing it in the long run.

[Vyal]

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=H.5016866572470484&pid=15.1

[Llodd]

"Leave Ragefire on regular 24hr timer between repops"

Considering your stance on this why leave it at 24hour repop?

[doraf]

Only because that's how it is already. I figured there was no point in even trying to negotiate anything different there. IMO, it should be kept classic, but it is what it is now.