proposed change to guild v guild PNP

[Travo]

Lets put aside the flaming for a bit and talk about something constructive.

the new PNP system is going well, however there are some holes when it comes to mass pvp that I believe have a simple solution. The first problem is that in mass PVP LNS is done individually and is nearly impossible to keep track of, especially when there are 50+ people on each side. The dreadlands fight had multiple violations on both sides, and it was due to the confusion that mass pvp presents, not malicious intent on the player's part.


The second issue is when a player dies to PVE during a pvp fight. By the current rules the players can rejoin the fight even when naked, and the only way to make sure they do not is to kill them naked, which is a horrible solution. This was shown in the dreadlands fight where RD wiped to Goreinare.


What i propose is a guild LNS system. No one may LNS from a mass pvp fight until a guild officer / leader / official representative calls LNS for the whole guild. Once that guild calls LNS They may not enter the zone for 1 hour EXCEPT to LNS, and cannot interfere with the other guilds activities on that mob for an hour. LNS may be called for both pvp and pve deaths. The winning guild has the choice to rez and help with the other guild's CR or just leave them to do it themselves.

Sirken said that if guild leaders agree to a change the GM's would support it, and I believe this change is needed.

[Andis]

good post and I agree with it helping the current situation.

[Tassador]

I think this guy hit a home run with this post. I read every word was like true change it to what I be saying!!!

[freez]

youre getting warm but this isn't it either

[Tune]

tanks trav, this is a great post

i like the part of malicious intent of the player,

I dont want a situation to happen where if i accidently kill some1 i didnt know was on LNS i get banned

that just makes people afraid to pvp... we need something more reasonable

[HippoNipple]

I like it. Guilds should be able to claim dominance over a zone when it is obvious without the tedious process of getting a documented yellow text on every person.

This would get rid of the argument of PvE death or someone killing themselves to avoid YT, plugging, etc. If a guild leader forfeits AFTER a zone is cleared of every member in the guild then it should be acceptable.

A guild forfeiting once they are ready to leave a zone anyways to avoid being killed or troll bans would be awful. For this reason you can't just forfeit while players of a forfeiting guild are still in the zone.

The only other problem I see in mass pvp is trying to LnS during a mass pvp fight. It may be a good addition to just make it that if there is mass pvp there is no looting corpses during the zone contention. Once it is determined a zone is won by a guild, LnS is available. The problem here may be determining when it is won, especially with zone dancing. Other additions/ideas may need to be added.

[Gustoo]

I'm not playing but this sounds reasonable. Your guild defeats other guild and you CC them until they call loot and scoot for the whole guild.

I guess this would not solve one of the biggest problems of people just sort of suicide rushing raids to attempt to disrupt them. The loser doesn't have a ton of incentive to let the winning guild go and finish their business, even if that means countless dead naked bodies.

[HippoNipple]

I'm not playing but this sounds reasonable. Your guild defeats other guild and you CC them until they call loot and scoot for the whole guild.

I guess this would not solve one of the biggest problems of people just sort of suicide rushing raids to attempt to disrupt them. The loser doesn't have a ton of incentive to let the winning guild go and finish their business, even if that means countless dead naked bodies.

Once you die in PvP you are not allowed to go back in the zone for an hour with new policy, unless the person who killed says you can. The only other way is if it is mass pvp fight and your side wins to control the zone. So the losing side would not be able to have countless dead naked bodies in zone without receiving a suspension/ban.

[DrRoach]

Lets put aside the flaming for a bit and talk about something constructive.

the new PNP system is going well, however there are some holes when it comes to mass pvp that I believe have a simple solution. The first problem is that in mass PVP LNS is done individually and is nearly impossible to keep track of, especially when there are 50+ people on each side. The dreadlands fight had multiple violations on both sides, and it was due to the confusion that mass pvp presents, not malicious intent on the player's part.


The second issue is when a player dies to PVE during a pvp fight. By the current rules the players can rejoin the fight even when naked, and the only way to make sure they do not is to kill them naked, which is a horrible solution. This was shown in the dreadlands fight where RD wiped to Goreinare.


What i propose is a guild LNS system. No one may LNS from a mass pvp fight until a guild officer / leader / official representative calls LNS for the whole guild. Once that guild calls LNS They may not enter the zone for 1 hour EXCEPT to LNS, and cannot interfere with the other guilds activities on that mob for an hour. LNS may be called for both pvp and pve deaths. The winning guild has the choice to rez and help with the other guild's CR or just leave them to do it themselves.

Sirken said that if guild leaders agree to a change the GM's would support it, and I believe this change is needed.


where the fuck did you come from. bravo travo!!!!

[Eslade]

http://www.tonyllerenablog.com/wp-content/uploads/A-Winner-is-You.gif

[DrRoach]

http://www.tonyllerenablog.com/wp-content/uploads/A-Winner-is-You.gif

use to playthat

[HippoNipple]

use to playthat

lol WWF or WCW on nintendo

[DrRoach]

lol WWF or WCW on nintendo

pro wrestling 8bit i think

[Dacuk]

Would also need additional criteria to determine when a fight had been "won" besides just an officer LNS call. U know that there will be many times guilds will claim they are still in the fight even though an impartial observer would disagree

[HippoNipple]

pro wrestling 8bit i think

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUkeVuoyvSE

awwwwwww yeahhhhhhh

This is the awful game I got it mixed up with.

[Travo]

Would also need additional criteria to determine when a fight had been "won" besides just an officer LNS call. U know that there will be many times guilds will claim they are still in the fight even though an impartial observer would disagree

If no officer calls LNS, then the fight goes on. Keep in mind that once someone dies they may not re-enter the fight. One side will eventually run out of characters. If they want their gear back, they will eventually call LNS. It is in everyone's interest to move on from a fight.

[HippoNipple]

If no officer calls LNS, then the fight goes on. Keep in mind that once someone dies they may not re-enter the fight. One side will eventually run out of characters. If they want their gear back, they will eventually call LNS. It is in everyone's interest to move on from a fight.

I can see some arguments coming from this but it will still be better than what we have. I would like to try it out, see what happens, and adjust from there.

[DrRoach]

mass pvp in solb if you die stay out of zone till one side concedes victory. then andonly then can losing guild call lns and get corpses. sounds great +1

[Kinamara]

I support it. It's pretty much how it was on TZ when i played, except players decided if the others were allowed to LNS. They were generally always allowed to do so. Rename the policy to something less blue than "Play Nice Policy," for example "rules of engagement." It serves the same purpose.

Also, allow ressed people to fight until the battle is over and one guild calls it off. It was always a part of the outlasting game.

[DrRoach]

I support it. It's pretty much how it always was on TZ when i played, except players decided if the others were allowed to LNS. They were in generally always allowed to do so. Rename the policy to something less blue than "Play Nice Policy" to "rules of engagement." It serves the same purpose.

Also, allow ressed people to fight until the battle is over and one guild calls it off. It was always a part of the outlasting game.

i like danish burgers (burger, bacon, bleu cheese), but get off that rez in pvp shit buddy =(

[Nixus]

Lets put aside the flaming for a bit and talk about something constructive.

the new PNP system is going well, however there are some holes when it comes to mass pvp that I believe have a simple solution. The first problem is that in mass PVP LNS is done individually and is nearly impossible to keep track of, especially when there are 50+ people on each side. The dreadlands fight had multiple violations on both sides, and it was due to the confusion that mass pvp presents, not malicious intent on the player's part.


The second issue is when a player dies to PVE during a pvp fight. By the current rules the players can rejoin the fight even when naked, and the only way to make sure they do not is to kill them naked, which is a horrible solution. This was shown in the dreadlands fight where RD wiped to Goreinare.


What i propose is a guild LNS system. No one may LNS from a mass pvp fight until a guild officer / leader / official representative calls LNS for the whole guild. Once that guild calls LNS They may not enter the zone for 1 hour EXCEPT to LNS, and cannot interfere with the other guilds activities on that mob for an hour. LNS may be called for both pvp and pve deaths. The winning guild has the choice to rez and help with the other guild's CR or just leave them to do it themselves.

Sirken said that if guild leaders agree to a change the GM's would support it, and I believe this change is needed.

Spoken like a vzer

[DrRoach]

Spoken like a vzer

you are still in the wrong guild mr. nixus.

[heartbrand]

I agree with this 1000% and was told to fuck off when I approached nizzar about it

[Tune]

I agree with this 1000% and was told to fuck off when I approached nizzar about it

cool we all agree

so whats the next step

[Supreme]

PNP on a PVP server.

This place is getting more and more fucking carebear by the day.

[Bardalicious]

Was just pvping RD in dreadlands and was told I was griefing them just bc they were trying to xp.

Too many zerglings low hp kiting since u been bant Tune. World falling into chaos.

[DrRoach]

PNP on a PVP server.

This place is getting more and more fucking carebear by the day.

call it a lns policy then taco. shit needs of ironed out.

[quido]

PNP on a PVP server.

This place is getting more and more fucking carebear by the day.

Supreme, you don't even play the game, and when you did you were widely considered the second worst PvPer on the server behind LaMort.

[DrRoach]

Supreme, you don't even play the game, and when you did you were widely considered the second worst PvPer on the server behind LaMort.

can you power level me on blue so i can play with nice people? i've been very nice to you on red edward

[Rollbackprices]

pnp has never been complicated until r99. You fight each other until one side gives up and asks for LNS. This policy works in small and large engagements. No need to restrict re-entering combat after dying or rezing in pvp. Those are both strategies that have always been a part of eq pvp. Declaring them against the rules is nothing less than changing eq into another game.

http://i.imgur.com/nHGbCrw.png

[Tune]

cool we all agree

so whats the next step

[DrRoach]

pnp has never been complicated until r99. You fight each other until one side gives up and asks for LNS. This policy works in small and large engagements. No need to restrict re-entering combat after dying or rezing in pvp. Those are both strategies that have always been a part of eq pvp. Declaring them against the rules is nothing less than changing eq into another game.

http://i.imgur.com/nHGbCrw.png

WRONG

[Buhbuh]

Lets put aside the flaming for a bit and talk about something constructive.

the new PNP system is going well, however there are some holes when it comes to mass pvp that I believe have a simple solution. The first problem is that in mass PVP LNS is done individually and is nearly impossible to keep track of, especially when there are 50+ people on each side. The dreadlands fight had multiple violations on both sides, and it was due to the confusion that mass pvp presents, not malicious intent on the player's part.


The second issue is when a player dies to PVE during a pvp fight. By the current rules the players can rejoin the fight even when naked, and the only way to make sure they do not is to kill them naked, which is a horrible solution. This was shown in the dreadlands fight where RD wiped to Goreinare.


What i propose is a guild LNS system. No one may LNS from a mass pvp fight until a guild officer / leader / official representative calls LNS for the whole guild. Once that guild calls LNS They may not enter the zone for 1 hour EXCEPT to LNS, and cannot interfere with the other guilds activities on that mob for an hour. LNS may be called for both pvp and pve deaths. The winning guild has the choice to rez and help with the other guild's CR or just leave them to do it themselves.

Sirken said that if guild leaders agree to a change the GM's would support it, and I believe this change is needed.

Player rules for PvP over GM rules has always been the ideal setup, according to GMs. The problem, again, is the leaders of each guild coming together with a modicum of respect for each other to work out terms, hence why the current PnP exists.

Everyone knows that's the case. People complained about the rule set, players were unwilling to work it out, GMs enforced PnP. The fix for all of the problems with PvP policy has always been up to players. Nizzar knows this. Tune knows this. Every officer of a guild has enough brains to figure that out. The point is: they're unwilling.

I doubt Heartbrand has issue talking to Nizzar. You might want to consider looking to him for the next step if you're concerned with PnP. Doesn't seem like anyone on forumquest can keep from jumping at each other's throats just because of what side they're on.

Basically, if you want change, don't be a child.

If you don't want change, be the same.

[HippoNipple]

cool we all agree

so whats the next step

I think Nizzar and Heartbrand should agree on a drafted PM to Sirken and both send the exact same PM. See what happens.

[Tune]

Player rules for PvP over GM rules has always been the ideal setup, according to GMs. The problem, again, is the leaders of each guild coming together with a modicum of respect for each other to work out terms, hence why the current PnP exists.

Everyone knows that's the case. People complained about the rule set, players were unwilling to work it out, GMs enforced PnP. The fix for all of the problems with PvP policy has always been up to players. Nizzar knows this. Tune knows this. Every officer of a guild has enough brains to figure that out. The point is: they're unwilling.

I doubt Heartbrand has issue talking to Nizzar. You might want to consider looking to him for the next step if you're concerned with PnP. Doesn't seem like anyone on forumquest can keep from jumping at each other's throats just because of what side they're on.

Basically, if you want change, don't be a child.

If you don't want change, be the same.

completely not true

i want whats best for the server

If asked , i will do anything that is within my power

all we have atm is 0 communication and random bannings

[Buhbuh]

completely not true

i want whats best for the server

If asked , i will do anything that is within my power

all we have atm is 0 communication and random bannings

You literally just did exactly what I described and patently disagreed with me because I'm not Nihilum, then described exactly what I just said like 2 statements later.

[Clark]

good post and I agree with it helping the current situation.

[Aenor]

PNP on a PVP server.

This place is getting more and more fucking carebear by the day.

Just wait till first to engage and spawn rotations on hard coded teams.

[Sektor]

Player rules for PvP over GM rules has always been the ideal setup, according to GMs. The problem, again, is the leaders of each guild coming together with a modicum of respect for each other to work out terms, hence why the current PnP exists.

Everyone knows that's the case. People complained about the rule set, players were unwilling to work it out, GMs enforced PnP. The fix for all of the problems with PvP policy has always been up to players. Nizzar knows this. Tune knows this. Every officer of a guild has enough brains to figure that out. The point is: they're unwilling.

I doubt Heartbrand has issue talking to Nizzar. You might want to consider looking to him for the next step if you're concerned with PnP. Doesn't seem like anyone on forumquest can keep from jumping at each other's throats just because of what side they're on.

Basically, if you want change, don't be a child.

If you don't want change, be the same.


Its Nizzar not wanting to talk to us about it. He said it many times on TS he wants nothing to do with Heartbrand. You need new leadership.

[Tune]

Its Nizzar not wanting to talk to us about it. He said it many times on TS he wants nothing to do with Heartbrand. You need new leadership.

dont think so

[heartbrand]

Just wait till first to engage and spawn rotations on hard coded teams.

Wtf is that sig I never wrote that? Did someone hack my forum account or is that a troll?

[Aenor]

BREAKING: Heartbrand has retired as P99's resident jailhouse lawyer, denies previous involvement.

[Vile]

sociopaths

[Stasis01]

This was my original LNS suggestion and all of Nihi raged about it, because for a long time they have had a guild model of griefing weaker guilds off the box.

Now that the GM's are starting to put their dick down a bit (which needed to be done) you'll see they are a lot more reasonable instead of just threatening everyone that they won't follow the rules, and that they will do what they want.

Nizz/HB need to talk with the GM's and work it out, how about we make this place good?

[Stasis01]

Doesn't need to be blue, just when you win, and the losers surrender you man up and let the losers LNS, very simple.

[Sektor]

Once again no response from Nilly Leadership, should talk to them Trav, if they don't care, time to change up the guild or bring your group of pals to join us.

[Classic]

pnp has never been complicated until r99. You fight each other until one side gives up and asks for LNS. This policy works in small and large engagements. No need to restrict re-entering combat after dying or rezing in pvp. Those are both strategies that have always been a part of eq pvp. Declaring them against the rules is nothing less than changing eq into another game.

http://i.imgur.com/nHGbCrw.png

[Elderan]

Once again no response from Nilly Leadership, should talk to them Trav, if they don't care, time to change up the guild or bring your group of pals to join us.

I have stayed away from this thread because I wanted to see peoples response and wanted to limit peoples want to troll the thread.

It is funny.. Early on we suggested something similar and Heartbrand said no, the rules were fine the way they were. At this point we find it very hard to deal with Heartbrand because he has reneged on two separate deals already, not pnp deals. He will tell you one thing and just do the opposite behind your back while telling you he isn't doing it.

Whatever gets less people banned for stupid stuff would be better than what we have now.

[heartbrand]

Reneged on deals? Not one deal has ever been made with me.

[Kinamara]

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/076/1/1/keep_calm_as_you_are_brainwashed____by_hypnolad-d5ge1jl.png

[Buhbuh]

By deals do you mean telling Heartbrand what mobs he can and can't approach regardless of his guild's ability to do them because Nihilum still wants them?

[heartbrand]

I think the only deal elderan speaks of is when nizzar told lawlzies we could have nagafen / vox / ragefire if we didn't ally with azrael. They then proceeded to kill us at ragefire without a single tell sent because "they meant only Sunday ragefire" and that we broke the deal by having multiple azrael members guilded despite every single person he mentioned being not actually guilded. He then stopped communicating with lawlzies. When I confronted elderan he said "we are not in a position to negotiate". Oh well, we took them anyway :)

[Tubben]

Spoken like a vzer

Hey Nixus ;P

[Nixus]

Oi!

[Tune]

I think the only deal elderan speaks of is when nizzar told lawlzies we could have nagafen / vox / ragefire if we didn't ally with azrael. They then proceeded to kill us at ragefire without a single tell sent because "they meant only Sunday ragefire" and that we broke the deal by having multiple azrael members guilded despite every single person he mentioned being not actually guilded. He then stopped communicating with lawlzies. When I confronted elderan he said "we are not in a position to negotiate". Oh well, we took them anyway :)

our word against yours pretty much

if u dont want to negotiate thats fine

lets atleast get these mass pvp rules hammered out

[Colgate]

the rules were pretty clearly defined

you chose to ignore them and that's why you're banned

banned

8)

[Smedy]

the rules were pretty clearly defined

you chose to ignore them and that's why you're banned

banned

8)

oh colgate, sometimes you crack me up sir

[Koota]

youre getting warm but this isn't it either

Okay, so what is your suggestion then?

[Taboo]

One word, pride. I can see it may be hard for a guild that has been winning so long to actually admit they lost a raid zone. Especially when you can just log in your 5 alts and throw bodies till you claim you won. Warrior coined? Log the bard. Bard coined? Log the cleric...etc.
I do not really know if that is actually what is happening but I have been playing eq long enough to know that it is viable.

Kudos to the OP. This is the best solution we have seen in awhile.

[chu]

I do not really know if that is actually what is happening

by all means, post your opinion of the situation anyway. being clueless never stops anybody else

[Taboo]

Well I know that is happening if that makes ya feel better. Was trying to be polite. As a member of the community here for quite awhile and this not being RNF I thought I had a right to speak my opinion.

I mean we all let you speak when you talk about things outside of guk so whats the difference? :)

[chu]

as such a longtime member of the community you probably already know that im also an expert of the ruins of old paineel nameen ;)

[RoguePhantom]

I would like to add or enhance this idea.

Once LNS is called, your Guild is allowed to enter, Loot and Scoot, but once the last member is out, you are NOT allowed back for 1 hour. (For Raid zones with a raid target up)

So the timer starts when the last person is Scooted. Gives reason to Mass PvP, and takes away the Spy/Scout/Alt parade that usually happens with current Policy.

[Tune]

what happens when the winning guild dies while the losing guild is still scooting

do they get to fight the winners or are the winners protected for 1 hr

[Etorryn]

Always hated the rules and I have said it numerous times. Scrap all LnS and PnP rules is my Guild v. Guild solution.

You want to rez people in? Fine with me. Want to run back across 5 zones naked, and loot your corpse and keep fighting? Yet again fine with it. I'm ok with the old rules. Bind rushing and training should be bannable offenses.

How often are big Guild vs Guild battles won because the clerics got all their melees rezzed back in time to sway the tide back? None that I have been a part of and I have been at almost every big PvP battle nilly has lost.

[Witness]

tanks trav, this is a great post

i like the part of malicious intent of the player,

I dont want a situation to happen where if i accidently kill some1 i didnt know was on LNS i get banned

that just makes people afraid to pvp... we need something more reasonable

tune, you are an idiot. bards have to look at someone, turn on auto attack and slowly kill them. if you have mana you can DD them for maybe 20-40% health depending. there is no oh i accidently 1 shot backstabbed the guy when playing a bard.

NOT HARD TO SEE THE PERSON NAKED ON A BARD BEFORE YOU KILL THEM

[runlvlzero]

I think pretty much for sure in guild vs guild pvp everyone should line up and 1v1 eachother, so everyone gets 1 kil at least on the other guy on the other side without interference at all

so like if tune kills someone, after that person loots, than it's like nizzar's turn etc

otherwise it's very unfair to the people that didn't get to see their name with yellow text that night

even better, if your a participant in yellow text, you shouldn't be allowed to have yellow text for 24hrs. especially the losers. it's making the server very unfun for the rest of us not showing up in yellow text all the time

[Tune]

tune, you are an idiot. bards have to look at someone, turn on auto attack and slowly kill them. if you have mana you can DD them for maybe 20-40% health depending. there is no oh i accidently 1 shot backstabbed the guy when playing a bard.

NOT HARD TO SEE THE PERSON NAKED ON A BARD BEFORE YOU KILL THEM

are u high?

a player gets rezd with 25% hp

i ran into a cluster of players in the solb tunnel

he took rez, got hit by a paladin , took an aoe, i tab targeted just HAPPED to get the last hit

perma banned

[Witness]

are u high?

a player gets rezd with 25% hp

i ran into a cluster of players in the solb tunnel

he took rez, got hit by a paladin , took an aoe, i tab targeted just HAPPED to get the last hit

perma banned

good story, would read again. you tab targeted and wasted 800 mana casting a 3 second song hoping he was near you? let's face it you saw the guy naked, or someone else saw the guy naked and called assist in TS

[runlvlzero]

are u high?

a player gets rezd with 25% hp

i ran into a cluster of players in the solb tunnel

he took rez, got hit by a paladin , took an aoe, i tab targeted just HAPPED to get the last hit

perma banned

I begged 2 have tune and nihilum banned, i got 3 threads in the gm petition forum QQing about skeles and aons, and bard hax and trains

BUT THIS I CANNOT STAND FOR!


it's wrong


no one should be permabanned ever for KILLING ANOTHER PLAYER ON A PVP SERVER

like... not even a timeout really

[Tune]

good story, would read again. you tab targeted and wasted 800 mana casting a 3 second song hoping he was near you? let's face it you saw the guy naked, or someone else saw the guy naked and called assist in TS

i never nuked him, i got 1 slash in

u want logs?

[Witness]

i never nuked him, i got 1 slash in

u want logs?

oh, so unless you somehow figured out how to hit someone from behind you, you did see the guy naked. got it. ban ban

[Tune]

i still dont even know the rules on rezing mid battle

is it even legal?

[Witness]

i still dont even know the rules on rezing mid battle

is it even legal?

you guys were doing it during the DL battle and didn't get banned, assume it's legal

[freez]

i love tune crawling like a worm thru the forums asking questions about pnp



he shoots!




he banned!

[Tune]

i love tune crawling like a worm thru the forums asking questions about pnp



he shoots!




he banned!

u have fun bind rushing today in kc?

prolly died like 8 times no1 banned wonder why