Ruger .380 or S&W .45?

[Itap]

Researching my next gun, and deciding between a Ruger .380 or S&W .45. I have a concealed weapons permit, and looking for a gun that my wife can shoot with ease. We currently have a 22 and a Mossberg 500 12 gauge that she can shoot relatively well, but want something that is quicker to get to and easier for her to shoot. Any input is appreciated.

[Rhambuk]

Take that money and move to a safer neighborhood

seriously though, nfc about guns never needed to use one for anything.
lots of firearm aficionado's here that can direct you.

[Zade]

Both are good choices but I would not choose either. The ruger is an excellent compact pistol, which is excellent for concealed carry, but if I can only hold 6+1 rounds, i would rather have something with 6 rounds and more stopping power like a 38 special revolver with a hidden hammer.

the 45 is a nice weapon for concealed carry if you get the right model/mods so that it doesn't have sharp pointy parts that will give out the conceal. the 45 will obs have a lot more kick then the 22 so your wife might tire from repeated fire.

in my CC weapons, i go for high stopping power and high capacity. my favorite so far has been BDA .380 and S&W 38 special model 49 aka the bodyguard

--edit--
gsorry, didnt really answer your question. if i had to choose one of those, would choose the 45 over the 380. more bullets, more power, more better

[Itap]

Both are good choices but I would not choose either. The ruger is an excellent compact pistol, which is excellent for concealed carry, but if I can only hold 6+1 rounds, i would rather have something with 6 rounds and more stopping power like a 38 special revolver with a hidden hammer.

the 45 is a nice weapon for concealed carry if you get the right model/mods so that it doesn't have sharp pointy parts that will give out the conceal. the 45 will obs have a lot more kick then the 22 so your wife might tire from repeated fire.

in my CC weapons, i go for high stopping power and high capacity. my favorite so far has been BDA .380 and S&W 38 special model 49 aka the bodyguard

--edit--
gsorry, didnt really answer your question. if i had to choose one of those, would choose the 45 over the 380. more bullets, more power, more better

Thanks for the advice, I was leaning more towards the 45

[Loke]

If you want something your wife will be able to easily shoot, .45 is probably not your best option. If you are set on .45, I'd suggest some sort of 1911 - just something inherently right about that design.

Why only those two rounds? I'd suggest looking at something in 40 S&W as a middle ground personally (buddy of mine has a 226 in .40 that has always been a joy to shoot). Also, if concealment is your goal, don't discount wheel guns. I know a lot of people don't like revolvers because they don't look tacti-cool, but as far as the ability to conceal and reliability, they're hard to beat. And if you can't get it done with 6, you shouldn't be carrying anyway.

[Zade]

Why only those two rounds? I'd suggest looking at something in 40 S&W as a middle ground personally (buddy of mine has a 226 in .40 that has always been a joy to shoot). Also, if concealment is your goal, don't discount wheel guns. I know a lot of people don't like revolvers because they don't look tacti-cool, but as far as the ability to conceal and reliability, they're hard to beat. And if you can't get it done with 6, you shouldn't be carrying anyway.

agree 100%. i love revolvers. i wouldnt concealed carry a 1911 though even though i love them. too big

[Zade]

my s&w 38 special revolver. no sharp edges, hammer concealed, sights are smooth

http://i.imgur.com/4OoCE5r.jpg?3

[compulsion]

What for you may be the best decision for a CHL weapon is probably not going to be a great decision for your wife as a shooter...

I personally carry a Ruger SP101 .357 mag revolver. It is absolutely accurate and reliable and that means everything to me in a concealed. I can't imagine any situation where I would need to lay out multiple rounds in self defense. I like revolvers as well for women in that they seem to be more intuitive to a very casual shooter.

I'll add that I do not enjoy shooting "compact" pistols. So a revolver that I can just keep loaded and tucked away for a specific purpose is ideal. I know for sure I will never jam up even if it hasn't been touched in months.

For a weapon you will shoot regularly, and will be in the home or car(in some states) I would go with a full size for sure, but that is another topic entirely.

If you already have the 12ga at home, depending on how much your wife likes shooting, I think that should cover what she should use for defense if needed. My mom has a 20ga, and should it become necessary, I think her chances of taking someone out with the shotgun is a vastly better than her chances with any pistol.

[Loke]

Yea, 1911s are a little bulky, but even as a skinny guy I could conceal mine under a jacket or baggy hoodie reasonably well. I honestly don't think I'd ever carry a 1911 just because I wouldn't know how to carry it. Being single action only, having a round in chamber with hammer down doesn't make much sense or seem that safe, and even with the multiple safeties, carrying it with hammer cocked seems kind of sketchy. Maybe that is just me being paranoid, but if I'm not carrying in a holster I think I'd want a wheel gun that is SA/DA with the hammer down over an unloaded chamber. I personally like exposed hammers (which is honestly my only gripe with Glocks) - I think it is a control thing, but really that is just a matter of preference. I can totally see how a concealed hammer would be advantageous for carry.

I don't think I've ever fired a revolver with a concealed hammer, are all rounds double action? My only real gripe with most 1911s is they're mostly single action only. I think if I were going to carry something I'd definitely want something that was double action for the first round and single action for all subsequent rounds. Might be something to consider when making your selection Itap.

Edit just to clarify, the reason I suggested a 1911 before was just because I feel like it is the pinnacle of .45s. Might not be great for conceal carry, but god damn is it a perfect design! If you're in the market for a .45, can't do much better than something that was designed over 100 years ago and is still arguably the best thing on the market.

[dalaimoc]

this:

http://www.enemyforces.net/firearms/glock17.htm/

[BillyCranston]

You'll both be shot and/or completely miss your targets. The people with guns that go for "stopping power and high capacity" can't aim and have to rely on the myriad of bullets they'll be sending at the target to stack up and stop them eventually.

If you can't shoot them once in the leg and call yourself defended, you need to get back to the range and learn how to aim. If you're actually facing an armed attacker, you're not going to need to worry about how many bullets your gun can carry at once. You only need one and shouldn't need more than one to put something down if your life is really in danger. If you're not prepared to end someone's life, you shouldn't be spouting off about stopping power and capacity depths. I would venture that no one, including myself, has any experience when it comes to ending another human being's life, and as much as you'd like to glorify and talk about it on an emulated gaming website, you'll never do it.

If you want to act like life is a movie and fire off 7 shots before you're down to 10, sure get a nice high capacity gun, you horrible shot, you. Glock 17s, lol. I guess if you want to shoot like some fucking cowboy in the National Afghani army and just spray a machine gun left and right, hoping to hit, oh I don't know, absolutely anything, including civilians.

[Loke]

If you can't shoot them once in the leg and call yourself defended... If you want to act like life is a movie

Not sure how you can talk about aiming for the leg, and in the same post reference acting like life is a movie. If you're aiming for anything other than center mass you're doing it wrong. Firearms when used for self defense are not for injuring people, they are for killing people. If you're not willing to kill what you're shooting, you should invest in a baseball bat or some mace instead.

[Sidelle]

My husband has a .45 and it just wasn't for me so I ended up getting a .38 exactly like the one below and it's perfect. It fits better in my hand and I just prefer revolvers. Had to laugh when I tried his the first time we went target shooting. The spent casings kept flying up and hitting me in the face. Yeah I was doing it wrong so after he stopped laughing (:D) he showed me what I was doing wrong. I still prefer the .38.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/detail_md/178042_01_md.jpg

[Sidelle]

Take that money and move to a safer neighborhood

seriously though, nfc about guns never needed to use one for anything.
lots of firearm aficionado's here that can direct you.


Bad stuff happens in good neighborhoods too. Just sayin'.. :) I've also never needed to use one either, and hope I never have to, but I'm glad I have one just in case.

[Grizzled]

Pay attention to the grain count on the rounds. Most female carriers do not prefer large kick from the higher grain count. Most of us guys do HAND ARTILLARY! ya baby! .380 is a good round. Plenty of power but not so much to over power a short barrel.

I dont live in a hostile area. So i dont feel the need to carry. But break into my house, and sweet jesus look out! The .45 acp is nice for that, well the m4 carbine as well.. :D

[Bamz4l]

I personally enjoy Flamethrowers (a mechanical incendiary device designed to project a long controllable stream of fire).

Some flamethrowers project a stream of ignited flammable liquid; some project a long gas flame. Most military flamethrowers use liquids, but commercial flamethrowers tend to use high-pressure propane and natural gas, which is considered safer. They are used by the military and by people needing controlled burning capacity, such as in agriculture (e.g., sugar cane plantations) or other such land management tasks. They can be designed to either be carried by the operator or mounted on a vehicle.

Here's me flamin' the grass:

http://i.imgur.com/Bn2DNuO.jpg

[Itap]

What for you may be the best decision for a CHL weapon is probably not going to be a great decision for your wife as a shooter...

I personally carry a Ruger SP101 .357 mag revolver. It is absolutely accurate and reliable and that means everything to me in a concealed. I can't imagine any situation where I would need to lay out multiple rounds in self defense. I like revolvers as well for women in that they seem to be more intuitive to a very casual shooter.

I'll add that I do not enjoy shooting "compact" pistols. So a revolver that I can just keep loaded and tucked away for a specific purpose is ideal. I know for sure I will never jam up even if it hasn't been touched in months.

For a weapon you will shoot regularly, and will be in the home or car(in some states) I would go with a full size for sure, but that is another topic entirely.

If you already have the 12ga at home, depending on how much your wife likes shooting, I think that should cover what she should use for defense if needed. My mom has a 20ga, and should it become necessary, I think her chances of taking someone out with the shotgun is a vastly better than her chances with any pistol.


I'll have to look more into revolvers. I will be carrying so I wanted something compact that can't be seen, but looking at Zades revolver, it might be a plausible choice.

Yea, 1911s are a little bulky, but even as a skinny guy I could conceal mine under a jacket or baggy hoodie reasonably well. I honestly don't think I'd ever carry a 1911 just because I wouldn't know how to carry it. Being single action only, having a round in chamber with hammer down doesn't make much sense or seem that safe, and even with the multiple safeties, carrying it with hammer cocked seems kind of sketchy. Maybe that is just me being paranoid, but if I'm not carrying in a holster I think I'd want a wheel gun that is SA/DA with the hammer down over an unloaded chamber. I personally like exposed hammers (which is honestly my only gripe with Glocks) - I think it is a control thing, but really that is just a matter of preference. I can totally see how a concealed hammer would be advantageous for carry.

I don't think I've ever fired a revolver with a concealed hammer, are all rounds double action? My only real gripe with most 1911s is they're mostly single action only. I think if I were going to carry something I'd definitely want something that was double action for the first round and single action for all subsequent rounds. Might be something to consider when making your selection Itap.

Edit just to clarify, the reason I suggested a 1911 before was just because I feel like it is the pinnacle of .45s. Might not be great for conceal carry, but god damn is it a perfect design! If you're in the market for a .45, can't do much better than something that was designed over 100 years ago and is still arguably the best thing on the market.

Thanks for this, another one to add to the list

[Itap]

Also, I will not be responding to troll posts. This is off-topic, not RnF.

[fishingme]

walther ppk

[Pullyn]

I'd recommend something in .45 as it is a lot more common than .380, also more powerful etc. There are also about a million different choices as far as guns in .45 as well. I'd look into a Springfield XD or Glock if I were you. That seems to be where most people start their search. Also 1911's are a nice option as well, when I do carry I lug around my Kimber Custom CDP II, although some people feel that a full size 1911is too large to conceal.

[Buriedpast]

move to a non fucked up country where there is free medical of top standards, cheap world class education, fuck all unemployment, and no cunt robs you.

The mere idea of owning a gun is just retarded for any other developed country but good old USA.

[SamwiseRed]

Bfg9000

[Aaron]

Both are good choices but I would not choose either. The ruger is an excellent compact pistol, which is excellent for concealed carry, but if I can only hold 6+1 rounds, i would rather have something with 6 rounds and more stopping power like a 38 special revolver with a hidden hammer.

the 45 is a nice weapon for concealed carry if you get the right model/mods so that it doesn't have sharp pointy parts that will give out the conceal. the 45 will obs have a lot more kick then the 22 so your wife might tire from repeated fire.

in my CC weapons, i go for high stopping power and high capacity. my favorite so far has been BDA .380 and S&W 38 special model 49 aka the bodyguard

--edit--
gsorry, didnt really answer your question. if i had to choose one of those, would choose the 45 over the 380. more bullets, more power, more better

Stopping power is overstated. I read a big long paper written by a cop that collected shooting data over 10 years. The number one man killer was the .380, with 9mm being second.

I think the best gun is the one you are confident and can shoot well with.

That being said, for CC, I'm kinda digging the G42. (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/11/24/glock-teasing-smaller-g42-pistol/)

[Aaron]

You'll both be shot and/or completely miss your targets. The people with guns that go for "stopping power and high capacity" can't aim and have to rely on the myriad of bullets they'll be sending at the target to stack up and stop them eventually.

If you can't shoot them once in the leg and call yourself defended, you need to get back to the range and learn how to aim. If you're actually facing an armed attacker, you're not going to need to worry about how many bullets your gun can carry at once. You only need one and shouldn't need more than one to put something down if your life is really in danger. If you're not prepared to end someone's life, you shouldn't be spouting off about stopping power and capacity depths. I would venture that no one, including myself, has any experience when it comes to ending another human being's life, and as much as you'd like to glorify and talk about it on an emulated gaming website, you'll never do it.

If you want to act like life is a movie and fire off 7 shots before you're down to 10, sure get a nice high capacity gun, you horrible shot, you. Glock 17s, lol. I guess if you want to shoot like some fucking cowboy in the National Afghani army and just spray a machine gun left and right, hoping to hit, oh I don't know, absolutely anything, including civilians.


I agree with most of this, though I think it could all be stated less condescendingly. Good points though that I don't think most people really consider.

[Bardalicious]

Just buy a Henry Golden Boy and stockpile 22 ammo for the coming zombie apocalypse imo.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/henry_golden_boy.jpg

Srs tho, last gun you'll ever own.

[Aaron]

move to a non fucked up country where there is free medical of top standards, cheap world class education, fuck all unemployment, and no cunt robs you.

The mere idea of owning a gun is just retarded for any other developed country but good old USA.

What country are you referring to?

And why would you recommend that someone move countries in lieu of buying a gun? That's kinda ridiculous, no?

[Itap]

Lol @ shooting someone in the leg. If I fire at someone, it's to kill them, or I wouldn't have fired to begin with.

Do you think an armed attacker is aiming at your leg?

[Ryko]

Didn't read the whole post, but Rugers are great guns for the less experienced, there frame is more ergonomical for people who don't shoot regularly. I was at Gander mountain looking for a pistol for my wife, I personally carry a Glock 27, and shoot a Glock22 regularly... I had a hard time drawing the ruger on target as I am trained for the more rigid Glock frame, however my wife had the opposite problem and was able to train the Ruger on target every draw... This may have been a random occurance, but my personal experience.

[Babayaaga]

What country are you referring to?

And why would you recommend that someone move countries in lieu of buying a gun? That's kinda ridiculous, no?

I wouldn't call our Medical "top notch", but for the most part it's free. Unemployment isn't 0%, but it's not hard to find a job here if you really want to work. Bitches will rob you no matter where you live though... you just have to find a more trustworthy bitch to hook up with (or bastard... whatever the case may be). If you don't trust your bitch/bastard, definitely, no matter what you do... do NOT live with them for 6 months or marry them.

Canada... People don't buy guns here unless they hunt, like to shoot at ranges, or play Airsoft (does this even count?)... it's one of those "huh? I need a whaa??" things.

[YendorLootmonkey]

1) .380 rounds might be scarce when ammunition manufacturers switch the dies over for the more ubiquitous 9mm rounds.

2) For your wife, I would go with a revolver unless she is comfortable with keeping a round chambered in a semi-auto. In a self defense situation, she may only have access to one arm/hand ... you can't depend on having both hands free/uninjured to chamber a round. In that case the firearm may as well be a brick.

[Pringles]

I carry a glock 23 (40 cal, compact), though I'm tempted to swap out for a glock 27 (40 cal, sub-compact). I'm 6'4 so the 23 works, but I think the 27 would be a bit easier to conceal (I need to see if I can actually shoot the 27 though....) I like the magazine capacity of my 23 (13+1), stopping power, and the availability/cost of the .40. My wife can also handle it well and she's small framed / 100 lbs.

I do love shooting my buddies G32C though, something about the sound of the compensated barrel. The .357 has incredible stopping power, I just don't like the cost. I help him out by giving him my .40 brass though for his reloads.

But if you're talking strictly home defense, stick with a shotgun and keep it readily available. No better weapon for home defense. Pistols in home defense situations are only for getting to a better gun.

[Zade]

I really dislike compact guns. i have very large hands and long fingers. compacts just dont sit well in my hands and the pinky and half the ring are hanging into nothingness. feels like im sipping cappucino out of an italian coffee cup
http://distilleryimage0.s3.amazonaws.com/22d43cba6d0611e3aa6f12c7d1822044_6.jpg

I want something I can wrap my hand around and hold tightly. g32c is just too small for me. and to be honest, wouldn't buy a 357. I wouldn't mind having one, but I would not purchase one. might as well just get a .40.

[Pringles]

The glock 23 and 32 are compact but my entire hand fits without hanging off.... glock subcompacts (the 27 etc) have the issue of the pinky finger hanging off. I'm with ya there though, not sure I can shoot the thing till I actually try it out :) Useless to carry something if you arent proficient with it.

[sanforce]

You should definitely go with the Judge.

.45 colt, triple stack manstopper rounds (which is a .45 that shoots 3 hollow points at once) , 410 shotgun shells

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbt5ebV7HN1rpvr6yo1_500.jpg

[compulsion]

Glocks are just for the tacticool crowd. They are ultra reliable under adverse conditions and easy to strip/clean, but are not nearly the best choice for either accuracy or handling. Unless you live in a tent in Somalia, I don't know why you would spend a premium to own a weapon which has compromised a certain level of precision in order to be able to operate under those types of conditions. A mid range .45(around $800) would serve anyone in a first world country far better than a Glock. I would also take CZ over a Glock any day, and have $100+ to blow on ammo.

PS: That Judge/Governor is too big for anything but a backpack and I can't even imagine how crappy it would feel to actually shoot if the only engagement range I was concerned with was less than 10 yards.

[compulsion]

I really dislike compact guns. i have very large hands and long fingers. compacts just dont sit well in my hands and the pinky and half the ring are hanging into nothingness. feels like im sipping cappucino out of an italian coffee cup

I don't think anyone enjoys shooting compacts, even people with small hands. Personally I think people are better off with a weapon they know intuitively from enjoying regularly at the range than one that they bought for concealment and suffer through practicing with occasionally, but that is an opinion and little composite guns get more attention from magazines, so I might be wrong.

I want something I can wrap my hand around and hold tightly. g32c is just too small for me. and to be honest, wouldn't buy a 357. I wouldn't mind having one, but I would not purchase one. might as well just get a .40.

I don't understand that comparison. 10mm and .40 were created as an upgrade to the 9mm. As a civilian shooter, it has more power but it is a bit more expensive. As a buyer I would weigh the choice between a 9mm and a .40.

The .357 has vastly better stopping power and range than a .40, and it isn't even close. I am absolutely confident that my .357 will be lethal at 50+ yards or through a windshield or car door. That smaller .40 round, not so much. Hell, I would say 80% of the shooters at the range with a 9mm or .40 automatic could not get more than 1/10 in the rings at 50 yards. And the same ammo goes into my rifle, which will take down a deer at 100 yards no problem. The fact that you can shoot cheap .38 spl ammo in any .357 is just a bonus.

[Rheaume]

I carry a Kimber Ultra Carry II. Everything about it is great to me.

[Pringles]

Glocks are just for the tacticool crowd. They are ultra reliable under adverse conditions and easy to strip/clean, but are not nearly the best choice for either accuracy or handling. Unless you live in a tent in Somalia, I don't know why you would spend a premium to own a weapon which has compromised a certain level of precision in order to be able to operate under those types of conditions. A mid range .45(around $800) would serve anyone in a first world country far better than a Glock. I would also take CZ over a Glock any day, and have $100+ to blow on ammo.

PS: That Judge/Governor is too big for anything but a backpack and I can't even imagine how crappy it would feel to actually shoot if the only engagement range I was concerned with was less than 10 yards.

Yeah.... because you wouldn't ever want a carry gun to be 100% reliable, right?

In the end its a never ending debate on which gun is "best". Get whatever you can hit your target with, reliably. Whatever you choose to carry, be proficient with it. I chose my glock because: I am accurate with it, I like the way it fits my hand, its reliable (never had a misfire / FTE in 2,000+ rounds), I can conceal it, its easy to maintain, and I like its capacity.

[sanforce]

PS: That Judge/Governor is too big for anything but a backpack and I can't even imagine how crappy it would feel to actually shoot if the only engagement range I was concerned with was less than 10 yards.

Yes, the Judge is a little ridiculous, and I wouldn't want to carry one in a concealed environment. I carry one in my truck and bring it into the mountains when I hunt. A 45 or 410 slug won't stop a large animal, but it will certainly make an impression. There's also 410 flairs made for it, which might come in handy one day. Coupled with a laser grip, it makes a for pretty good home defense weapon (is a bit clunky). You can put 15 hollow points down range in 5 pulls of the trigger... make my day!

[citizen1080]

I personally enjoy Flamethrowers (a mechanical incendiary device designed to project a long controllable stream of fire).

Some flamethrowers project a stream of ignited flammable liquid; some project a long gas flame. Most military flamethrowers use liquids, but commercial flamethrowers tend to use high-pressure propane and natural gas, which is considered safer. They are used by the military and by people needing controlled burning capacity, such as in agriculture (e.g., sugar cane plantations) or other such land management tasks. They can be designed to either be carried by the operator or mounted on a vehicle.

Here's me flamin' the grass:

http://i.imgur.com/Bn2DNuO.jpg

In Idaho we can legally carry a flamethrower. Or Gatling gun if that's your thing.

On a more serious note, pick up a Glock 10mm http://us.glock.com/products/model/g20

It has amazing stopping power, rounds cost about same as a .45 and its a perfect for conceal carry.

Personally I have a Glock 17 for my daily carry but the 10mm is my next purchase as its smaller and has more stopping power.

[citizen1080]

I carry a glock 23 (40 cal, compact), though I'm tempted to swap out for a glock 27 (40 cal, sub-compact). I'm 6'4 so the 23 works, but I think the 27 would be a bit easier to conceal (I need to see if I can actually shoot the 27 though....) I like the magazine capacity of my 23 (13+1), stopping power, and the availability/cost of the .40. My wife can also handle it well and she's small framed / 100 lbs.

I do love shooting my buddies G32C though, something about the sound of the compensated barrel. The .357 has incredible stopping power, I just don't like the cost. I help him out by giving him my .40 brass though for his reloads.

But if you're talking strictly home defense, stick with a shotgun and keep it readily available. No better weapon for home defense. Pistols in home defense situations are only for getting to a better gun.


Pringles is right regarding home defense. Shotgun is the way to go. The KSG was built with the barrel retracted into the stock so while the barrel is technically legal length the gun itself is pretty much a sawed off. Which makes it great for home defense as you don't want to be swinging around 4 feet of steel to track to a target. Holds 13? rounds...oh and looks sexy as hell.

http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/b_ad06f8357508a9b2087e460442307fb1DSC03535.jpg

[Pringles]

Didnt FPS russia have like 3 of those break on him? (they were all brand new?)

[Zade]

my home defense weapon of choice is a shotgun as well. saiga12 way to go, undoubtedly. 30 round drum. if you are a less than savory individual, you can get someone to turn it into a full auto, or you can steal an AA12 from Russia. Get me one plz

[Pringles]

I also have a saiga 12 for my home defense :) Whered you get 30 round drum? I only have 20. (MD Arms). I have a ton of MD arms drums for sale too if you want some =P (they are new, and cheaper than what MD arms sells them for.... i bet wrong on the nation freaking out, my loss... your gain)

Have you done a conversion on yours yet? I converted my s12 and my saiga 7.62x39.... only way to go IMO!