The Server Wide Suspension will end Monday at 6pm EST

[Sirken]

The Server Wide Suspension will end Monday at 6pm EST

On the first two simulated patchday repops T1 Guilds are limited to VP, Naggy, and Vox, the other 1-2 simulated patchday repops will be FFA, rest of the mobs will be FFA. (that means 3-4 simulated patchday repops every month!)

T1 Guilds are no longer allowed to kill Vox and Naggy, except on simulated patchday repops.

the Guilds will continue their discussions to improve the raid scene here on project 1999, and we will ensure that no one side can try to strong arm or hold any one other side hostage.

Side Rules:

anyone caught intentionally training at raids eats a perma ban, and their guild eats a four week raid suspension.

we strongly encourage guilds to work out their own disputes before contacting the CSR staff, as you will probably not like our rulings.

respect FTE messages, anyone that ignores FTE and Kill Steals a mob will earn their guild a four week raid suspension.

No guild will have more than two representatives present at any raid mob at any time.

Players will not be allowed to camp out at raid mobs ahead of time to encourage actually racing for targets.

Consider greatly reducing variance if the poopsocking can be curbed by the above rules.

No DA Stalling, period.

A Guild will be considered a Teir 1 Guild by the staff, as soon as it starts competing for dragons within Veeshan's Peak.

[carli]

1st?

[Argh]

Should lift the raid suspension for everyone except the guilds involved in negotiations. Massive public alt raids to follow...

[jaybone]

3rd

[Ele]

No guild will have more than two representatives present at any raid mob at any time.

This mean trackers/FTE grabbers?

[Sinestria]

The Server Wide Suspension will end Monday at 6pm EST

On the first two simulated patchday repops T1 Guilds are limited to VP, Naggy, and Vox, the other 1-2 simulated patchday repops will be FFA, rest of the mobs will be FFA.

T1 Guilds are no longer allowed to kill Vox and Naggy, except on simulated patchday repops.

the Guilds will continue their discussions to improve the raid scene here on project 1999, and we will ensure that no one side can try to strong arm or hold any one other side hostage.

Side Rules:

anyone caught intentionally training at raids eats a perma ban, and their guild eats a four week raid suspension.

we strongly encourage guilds to work out their own disputes before contacting the CSR staff, as you will probably not like our rulings.

respect FTE messages, anyone that ignores FTE and Kill Steals a mob will earn their guild a four week raid suspension.

No guild will have more than two representatives present at any raid mob at any time.

Players will not be allowed to camp out at raid mobs ahead of time to encourage actually racing for targets.

Consider greatly reducing variance if the poopsocking can be curbed by the above rules.

No DA Stalling, period.

A Guild will be considered a Teir 1 Guild by the staff, as soon as it starts competing for dragons within Veeshan's Peak.


What is the time frame of the repops? Are you talking 3-4 monthly?

[Derubael]

What is the time frame of the repops? Are you talking 3-4 monthly?

Yes.

[Oleris]

so.... nothing else has been agreed to as far as a rotation, and limits to engagements?

[Derubael]

This mean trackers/FTE grabbers?

Yes.

[Sirken]

so a repop a week? am i reading this right?

3-4 a month, but yes abouts that

[goshozal]

Thank you.

[Detoxx]

14th

[Sinestria]

How will it be verified that people are not camped out at raid spawns? What about exping in VS pit? Planar clears near CT spawn?

[Tecmos Deception]

The more important issue is, WHY THE HELL CAN'T I HAVE MORE THAN 10 POSTS PER PAGE OF A THREAD?!

[Barkingturtle]

I think this is going to fix everything.

[Derubael]

The more important issue is, WHY THE HELL CAN'T I HAVE MORE THAN 10 POSTS PER PAGE OF A THREAD?!

rogean confirmed trying to make the raid scene less toxic by slaying forumquest.

brilliant, imo.

[Argh]

3-4 a month, but yes abouts that

http://media.giphy.com/media/122eu1lNe6psNq/giphy.gif

[Yinikren]

Thank you.

[Snizatcher]

Great! You guys basically added some spawns and are just going to hold people accountable for the rules that were already in place! Wonderful.... This changes everything... /sigh

[Arteker]

rogean confirmed trying to make the raid scene less toxic by slaying forumquest.

brilliant, imo.

about damm friggin team , next glen fiditchs in honour of rogean and sirken, sicne you are a leezard next sexual though i have will directed towards the superior sexual race know as iksars or leezards in gnome slang.

[Versus]

ITT: Casual guilds get 2 free uncontested repops a month and still find a way to be upset about it.

[Nocsucow]

can we plz put in a rule about alts from TMO/IB/FE purposely putting their alts into EVERY GUILD these guilds has 4+ alts each that are 60 .. they have no lives and will do this ... i bet tmo is forming alt guild as we speak

[Visual]

this is the worst solution yet. Now raid items will be flooding the market devaluing everything. Might as well give us the ability to summon items.

What were you thinking Fonzo?

[Banditfist]

and where is the statement that RnF has been officially closed???

Leaving that section up is going to do nothing but allow the toxic parts of this server to spew their crap.

[chief]

can we plz put in a rule about alts from TMO/IB/FE purposely putting their alts into EVERY GUILD these guilds has 4+ alts each that are 60 .. they have no lives and will do this ... i bet tmo is forming alt guild as we speak

I already have an alt in every tier2 guild :)

[Nirgon]

plz let it be tuesdays lol

Holy Testicle Tuesday

[Sinestria]

and where is the statement that RnF has been officially closed???

Leaving that section up is going to do nothing but allow the toxic parts of this server to spew their crap.

RnF has to stay open. People can opt out if they like. If it closes then the toxic shit would just be all over sever chat. Blue server chat would look like red's!

[Snizatcher]

ITT: Casual guilds get 2 free uncontested repops a month and still find a way to be upset about it.

This will be great for BDA, but without a rotation it will be more of the same for the rest of the casuals without an agreement... FE/IB/TMO ALSO get 2 free repops a month as well do they not? Since you are both top dogs, your only competition is each other.

Now FE/IB/TMO, get 3 extra VP full spawns, etc. You guys did better than the rest of us and are throwing this shit in our face like we should be ecstatic. Congrats you were supposed to be penalized for your behavior instead you were given even more mobs/loot than you had in the first place....

[sanforce]

I can live with it. Enjoy your pixels casuals!

[fastboy21]

can we plz put in a rule about alts from TMO/IB/FE purposely putting their alts into EVERY GUILD these guilds has 4+ alts each that are 60 .. they have no lives and will do this ... i bet tmo is forming alt guild as we speak

The problem won't be alt guilds. These will easily be id'd and stopped. The problem will be people joining legit casual guilds with their alts.

I don't see how there is any way to prevent it without doing some seriously unclassic solution.

[connect]

Will the GM staff watch for alt guilds of tier 1 guilds being made and then killing targets?

[Brut]

Yay, simple.

"No DA stalling, period" does this mean can't position Trak/eat banish with DA?

[kphooper33]

surprisingly this doesn't take any spawns away from TMO & co. didn't see that coming at all.. lol

[Nocsucow]

I already have an alt in every tier2 guild :)

this the monk chief?

[Psionide]

T2 guilds passed up better agreements for this? Looks like they def lost out on number of mobs then in some other proposals. Greed prevails.

[Jarnauga]

This will be great for BDA.. but terrible for everyone else.

..unless all the "tier 2" guilds agree on a rotation on their own :rolleyes:

[kphooper33]

You guys have had blinders on this whole time.. We keep saying it isn't only about our guild and you assume we are lying... This will be great for BDA.. but terrible for everyone else. FE/IB/TMO ALSO get 2 free repops a month as well do they not? Since you are both top dogs, your only competition is each other.

Now FE/IB/TMO, get 3 extra VP full spawns, etc. You guys did better than the rest of us and are throwing this shit in our face like we should be ecstatic. Congrats you were supposed to be penalized for your behavior instead you were given even more mobs/loot than you had in the first place....

This.

[Sinestria]

You guys have had blinders on this whole time.. We keep saying it isn't only about our guild and you assume we are lying... This will be great for BDA.. but terrible for everyone else. FE/IB/TMO ALSO get 2 free repops a month as well do they not? Since you are both top dogs, your only competition is each other.

Now FE/IB/TMO, get 3 extra VP full spawns, etc. You guys did better than the rest of us and are throwing this shit in our face like we should be ecstatic. Congrats you were supposed to be penalized for your behavior instead you were given a fucking gift.

Unless I'm mistaken this means that casuals get two free VS/CT/Trak/Inny a month, get to compete on an extra 1-2, and get to compete on all of their non-repop spawns. Seems like a pretty fair "in the meantime" compromise to me.

[Thulack]

surprisingly this doesn't take any spawns away from TMO & co. didn't see that coming at all.. lol

[Autotune]

T2 guilds passed up better agreements for this? Looks like they def lost out on number of mobs then in some other proposals. Greed prevails.

This is about repops.

Now if they get stuck raiding 10days a month normally and the rest of the month they are raiding with the guilds like they were before the server suspension. It seems like nothing will have changed other than a half suspension of "T1" guilds for 10 days a month.

[Yinikren]

This isn't a proposal - this is because no one could come to an agreement for a proposal. Two different things.

[Ella`Ella]

You're welcome

[fastboy21]

You guys have had blinders on this whole time.. We keep saying it isn't only about our guild and you assume we are lying... This will be great for BDA.. but terrible for everyone else. FE/IB/TMO ALSO get 2 free repops a month as well do they not? Since you are both top dogs, your only competition is each other.

Now FE/IB/TMO, get 3 extra VP full spawns, etc. You guys did better than the rest of us and are throwing this shit in our face like we should be ecstatic. Congrats you were supposed to be penalized for your behavior instead you were given a fucking gift.

The whole server is getting a gift.

FE/IB/TMO are still members of the community, they aren't "supposed to be penalized for your behavior" as you say. TMO was the guild that was suspended when this whole thing started...but it was a suspension, not banning or some other permanent disciplinary action against them. They served their suspension, and are now back in community in full standing (at least so much as they ever were).

In the long run, it will mean that any other up and coming guild will have a chance to break into the top tier if they want to do so. This may not seem like such a big deal, but it will make a huge difference in Velious.

[Sinestria]

I believe a lot of TMO's dominance came from camping out alt armies and training. That's gone.

[-Catherin-]

This is very acceptable.

Like

[Autotune]

I believe a lot of TMO's dominance came from camping out alt armies and training. That's gone.

Came from that? nope
Grew from that? yep

[Sinestria]

I sincerely hope that the 3-4 simulated repops are a one month trial. This will screw up the economy if not.

[Argh]

No guild will have more than two representatives present at any raid mob at any time.

Players will not be allowed to camp out at raid mobs ahead of time to encourage actually racing for targets.


Could you clarify how close is too close for these two points?

[Xadion]

I believe a lot of TMO's dominance came from camping out alt armies and training. That's gone.

LOL

-- anywho

glad there is something on the table and we are all going to move forward and we can get back into the day to day life of a EQ addict.

[Derubael]

Tier 2 guilds will likely get together and impose a rotation on repops, or some kind of limit.

You can view this as 2 repops just for tier 2 guilds, as well as 2 FFA repops where tier 2 guilds will get lots of targets. If you're a tier 2 guild and an FFA repop comes, find out where TMO and FE/IB are going and hit something else. Everyone will get targets on those FFA repops.

Lastly, repops are classic. You're welcome splorf.

[Visual]

I sincerely hope that the 3-4 simulated repops are a one month trial. This will screw up the economy if not.

It will accelerate the aging of the server. People will burn out sooner from the combination of having to play so much more and attaining everything they want so quickly. It's perverting the game. very sadface

[Arteker]

I sincerely hope that the 3-4 simulated repops are a one month trial. This will screw up the economy if not.

more than its fucked up? lol its suposed so people have upgrades raidin no for sell in ec or that it was claimed for many people noo....

to let experience again the feel of raid again, well there is a chance.

[Derubael]

Could you clarify how close is too close for these two points?

Alt army may be camped at the zone in.

[kotton05]

Who could be opposed to free pixels? Yay

[Xadion]

Alt army may be camped at the zone in.

How many coth bots can be plasterd throughout zones?

[Arteker]

Alt army may be camped at the zone in.

Derubael what about people with TT desynch issue?.

[Grimfan]

How many coth bots can be plasterd throughout zones?

People should keep trying to game these rules, we'll have a really good Velious with no raid mobs.

[Derubael]

Derubael what about people with TT desynch issue?.

Net capture, send to nilbog, instructions are in the "TT desynch" thread in the bugs forum.

[JayN]

So everything is FFA all the time Except for the first two simulated patch days? whereinwhich t1's can only do vp and nag/vox?

[webrunner5]

Unless I'm mistaken this means that casuals get two free VS/CT/Trak/Inny a month, get to compete on an extra 1-2, and get to compete on all of their non-repop spawns. Seems like a pretty fair "in the meantime" compromise to me.

Yeah like a ton of Tier 2 guilds are going to take Trak/Inny down on their own. Good luck with that.

[Sinestria]

Yeah like a ton of Tier 2 guilds are going to take Trak/Inny down on their own. Good luck with that.

BDA, Taken, and Divinity could do it easily.

[Nefarum]

Are repops going to be scheduled, or randomized times throughout the month?

[Hitpoint]

This will be great for BDA, but without a rotation it will be more of the same for the rest of the casuals without an agreement... FE/IB/TMO ALSO get 2 free repops a month as well do they not? Since you are both top dogs, your only competition is each other.

Now FE/IB/TMO, get 3 extra VP full spawns, etc. You guys did better than the rest of us and are throwing this shit in our face like we should be ecstatic. Congrats you were supposed to be penalized for your behavior instead you were given even more mobs/loot than you had in the first place....

Free mobs. Still mad. Seems like you didn't actually want to have your "play-style" catered to or even free mobs. You wanted t1 to LOSE enough to satisfy you. Pound of flesh?

[Snizatcher]

Free mobs. Still mad. Seems like you didn't actually want to have your "play-style" catered to or even free mobs. You wanted t1 to LOSE enough to satisfy you. Pound of flesh?

So you're telling me you haven't been standing there in a safe spot waiting to pull the mob you mobilized first on only to get trained by one of those T1 players... While they speak on how proud they are to train you... Nothing has changed. Only more mobs to play petitionquest with..

Sorry, I didn't buy 3 characters when it was the "in" thing to do.. Most of us didn't amass an army to park at every uber mob. This bullshit idea of putting in more effort is just that, bullshit. We all track the same mobs... We all log in/mobilize on targets the same way..

This isn't play-style.. you turned this shit into your "LIFE-style"...

[Handull]

I don't think there has been poopsocking for a while. What does it mean you can't camp out for raid targets? How close is too close?

[radditsu]

I don't think there has been poopsocking for a while. What does it mean you can't camp out for raid targets? How close is too close?

Zone in

[Steveyd]

Are repops going to be scheduled, or randomized times throughout the month?

Just wanted to echo this question. Hoping that European/Asian players will still have a shot at killing something each month!

[Ele]

Zone in

Everyone starts at the bottom of Runnyeye. :D

[Derubael]

Are repops going to be scheduled, or randomized times throughout the month?

Randomized, with a short heads up before hand. No, we are not sure how far in advance we will be announcing a repop when it happens, but we will definitely be doing so.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Randomized, with a short heads up before hand. No, we are not sure how far in advance we will be announcing a repop when it happens, but we will definitely be doing so.

I applaud this effort, and I kindly suggest that the non-tier 1 repops be announced at least 24 hours in advance so that members of tier 2 guilds may properly plan their RL and in-game schedules appropriately.

[mishurza]

Also note that other than re-pop days, T1 guilds aren't allowed to go after naggy or vox. so that's a couple dragons a week between re-pops for however T2 ends up dividing them.

[bankad]

The Server Wide Suspension will end Monday at 6pm EST



please say its ok to rekey in sky before that or we will lose 50+ corpses in europa due to our timezone...

[fastboy21]

do you have to take the server down to repop the raid mobs?

[bktroost]

please say its ok to rekey in sky before that or we will lose 50+ corpses in europa due to our timezone...

AG, lost all of our keys as well... Watching a football game held up the meeting that would have saved that. Oh well.

[citizen1080]

I applaud this effort, and I kindly suggest that the non-tier 1 repops be announced at least 24 hours in advance so that members of tier 2 guilds may properly plan their RL and in-game schedules appropriately.

This Please


And Yay Repops.

As for the extra mobs "ruining" the econ. Those guilds with a plethora of Kunark BP/Legs, dragon scales, epic MQ parts, etc banked, should prolly liquidate them yesterday.

I am sure the rest of us will survive just fine.

[Rhambuk]

Incredible! Absolutely fantastic in my opinion!


Randomized, with a short heads up before hand. No, we are not sure how far in advance we will be announcing a repop when it happens, but we will definitely be doing so.



Is this randomization going to be coded into the server so we could see multipled patchday repops in the same week? possibly the same day? on the extreme extreme offchance could we see raid mobs repop before and/or during a raid?

I also don't think they should be announced, mobilization was huge for my guild on live. Then again patches were normally known about so we did have time to plan in advance, carry on!

will servers be brought down instantly to let the server know? or serverwide message?

[Hitpoint]

So you're telling me you haven't been standing there in a safe spot waiting to pull the mob you mobilized first on only to get trained by one of those T1 players... While they speak on how proud they are to train you... Nothing has changed. Only more mobs to play petitionquest with..

Sorry, I didn't buy 3 characters when it was the "in" thing to do.. Most of us didn't amass an army to park at every uber mob. This bullshit idea of putting in more effort is just that, bullshit. We all track the same mobs... We all log in/mobilize on targets the same way..

This isn't play-style.. you turned this shit into your "LIFE-style"...

Still don't understand the anger. You are mad about stuff that you can now avoid. This is good? No?

[-Catherin-]

as to poopsocking, really think that dragons should be engaged where they spawn. not pulling them to predetermined areas. this stops camping an alt army by TT ZL. its not poopsocking the spawn point but should still be considered grey, and camping that army right by sev is obviously socking.

having to engage targets where they spawn solves a lot of problems

[Troubled]

T1 guilds get the full on competition they wanted throughout the entire month.

T2 guilds get what we asked for by 2 guaranteed weekly spawns per month of VS/Inny/CT, as well as the FFA repop fun.

Whoever is walking away unhappy needs to sit down and think a little bit, IMO.

Also to all those concerned with how BDA is going to do in T2(we feel so loved!) we are already trying out rotation ideas and anyone that thinks they are capable is welcome to talk to an officer of a guild in the tentative rotation to set that up for themselves. Ragtag groups of unguilded/small guilds banding together to take something down welcome.

[Arteker]

So you're telling me you haven't been standing there in a safe spot waiting to pull the mob you mobilized first on only to get trained by one of those T1 players... While they speak on how proud they are to train you... Nothing has changed. Only more mobs to play petitionquest with..

Sorry, I didn't buy 3 characters when it was the "in" thing to do.. Most of us didn't amass an army to park at every uber mob. This bullshit idea of putting in more effort is just that, bullshit. We all track the same mobs... We all log in/mobilize on targets the same way..

This isn't play-style.. you turned this shit into your "LIFE-style"...

my either but i play this game and since i raid i developed new alts from 0 .

in General everyone should be happy since it will alow u acces to more mobs other way would be contested, there is new raid rules and actualya better safer enviroment for the casual while aswell for HD players.

[Arteker]

as to poopsocking, really think that dragons should be engaged where they spawn. not pulling them to predetermined areas. this stops camping an alt army by TT ZL. its not poopsocking the spawn point but should still be considered grey, and camping that army right by sev is obviously socking.

having to engage targets where they spawn solves a lot of problems

and create alot of them if they are roamers.

[Versus]

Whoever is walking away unhappy needs to sit down and think a little bit, IMO.
.

[Rec]

add an extremely small chance for raid loot to the monsters that never get killed day after day. They'll never see that one coming.

[-Catherin-]

and create alot of them if they are roamers.

all it means is that you need to think about your engage and you may not be able to just rush right into it.

[Hitpoint]

as to poopsocking, really think that dragons should be engaged where they spawn. not pulling them to predetermined areas. this stops camping an alt army by TT ZL. its not poopsocking the spawn point but should still be considered grey, and camping that army right by sev is obviously socking.

having to engage targets where they spawn solves a lot of problems

What's wrong with alt army? People have worked hard on their raid alts.

How does engaging at spawn stop this anyway? Their alts at zone in will just rush to the spawn point.

Also how can you ever engage tal or fay where they spawn? Among tons of roaming level 50 mobs who dispell, and in the middle of an ocean.

Pulling a dragon is something that requires thought too btw. A mob that fears, charms and aoes when you get in range. Not everyone can do it well. It's actually a very fun part of the game imo and I'd be sad to see it go.

[williestargell]

Alt army may be camped at the zone in.

so then again maybe T2 guilds won't get anything on the FFA repops.

[Rhambuk]

What's wrong with alt army? People have worked hard on their raid alts.

How does engaging at spawn stop this anyway? Their alts at zone in will just rush to the spawn point.

Also how can you ever engage tal or fay where they spawn? Among tons of roaming level 50 mobs who dispell, and in the middle of an ocean.

Pulling a dragon is something that requires thought too btw. A mob that fears, charms and aoes when you get in range. Not everyone can do it well. It's actually a very fun part of the game imo and I'd be sad to see it go.

you don't have to be right on that mob to play that class, theres no reason you can't say oh I want to play rogue for this one or maybe I want to heal this raid.

also mob positioning 100% crucial

[Hitpoint]

you don't have to be right on that mob to play that class, theres no reason you can't say oh I want to play rogue for this one or maybe I want to heal this raid.

also mob positioning 100% crucial

Right, I agree with both of these things.

[Xadion]

T1 guilds get the full on competition they wanted throughout the entire month.

T2 guilds get what we asked for by 2 guaranteed weekly spawns per month of VS/Inny/CT, as well as the FFA repop fun.

Whoever is walking away unhappy needs to sit down and think a little bit, IMO.

Also to all those concerned with how BDA is going to do in T2(we feel so loved!) we are already trying out rotation ideas and anyone that thinks they are capable is welcome to talk to an officer of a guild in the tentative rotation to set that up for themselves. Ragtag groups of unguilded/small guilds banding together to take something down welcome.

Hehe and BDA instantly takes over as dictators of T2 - enjoy folks :-D

There are going to be so many mobs all over this serve its a dragon hatchery! oh my

[fastboy21]

T1 guilds get the full on competition they wanted throughout the entire month.

T2 guilds get what we asked for by 2 guaranteed weekly spawns per month of VS/Inny/CT, as well as the FFA repop fun.

Whoever is walking away unhappy needs to sit down and think a little bit, IMO.

Also to all those concerned with how BDA is going to do in T2(we feel so loved!) we are already trying out rotation ideas and anyone that thinks they are capable is welcome to talk to an officer of a guild in the tentative rotation to set that up for themselves. Ragtag groups of unguilded/small guilds banding together to take something down welcome.

The people who will be/are unhappy are the ones that were hoping that this was going to be the end of competitive raiding on the server. They were hoping that it would break the back of the uber raiding guilds, namely TMO (but also IB and FE). That they would get a moment to laugh at them as the GMs brought their house of pixels down...sweet revenge for years of reciprocated wrong doing on their parts...

It was never meant to be that. This is not the end of high end raiding nor the end of hard cores getting more pixels. It is still classic EQ, as it was always meant to be.

[cyryllis]

PRAISE JESUS

[Pringles]

People complain that non TMO arent getting enough loot, now they are complaining that there will be too much loot in other peoples hands? /boggle

[Rhambuk]

Love the sig xadion kunark was my favorite of the first 3, never got all the hype with velious.

[kotton05]

Hehe and BDA instantly takes over as dictators of T2 - enjoy folks :-D

Biggest guild on server is T2-_-

[Troubled]

Hehe and BDA instantly takes over as dictators of T2 - enjoy folks :-D

There are going to be so many mobs all over this serve its a dragon hatchery! oh my

It was a council including 5 other guilds that agreed. Trolling is for RNF.

[Brool]

great job- !!!!

Now if only this could help improve peoples Greed issues, --

A Troll can dream.

[Daldaen]

Interesting.

So we will have regular spawns AND 3-4 respawns a month.

Sounds like epic prices will drop from 500k to 250k~!

[Hailto]

Could BDA possibly be a bigger group of whiners? Serious question.

[Hailto]

ITT: Casual guilds get 2 free uncontested repops a month and still find a way to be upset about it.

[-Catherin-]

I don't know if they keep it to 4 respawns a month there may be less "normal" respawns than you think. currently "most" spawns are on 7 days plus or minus 48 hours, plus extended variances. mobs would have to consistently pop in the first half of their windows to cause a severe influx.

I agree in the end this means more pops, but I don't think its as bad as people say it is

[Argh]

No guild will have more than two representatives present at any raid mob at any time.


Does this forbid people from prepping in the same zone as the mob before a repop the same way it forbids alt's to be camped in the same zone?

Also, does this prevent guild from having everyone level in target zones during windows (i.e. Juggs/Reets during trak window)?

[Rhambuk]

So my guild will have the opportunity to get mobs on the repops days but the rest of the month we will still be required to stare at a wall and batphone? Am I understanding this correctly?

The T1 guilds could easily come up with a rotation much like the T2 guilds are doing if you prefer not waking at 4am for your pixels?

[Clark]

this is the worst solution yet. Now raid items will be flooding the market devaluing everything. Might as well give us the ability to summon items.

What were you thinking Fonzo?

Have to agree.

Unless I'm mistaken this means that casuals get two free VS/CT/Trak/Inny a month, get to compete on an extra 1-2, and get to compete on all of their non-repop spawns. Seems like a pretty fair "in the meantime" compromise to me.

More than fair. Really screws over the folks who work extra hard. Sounds like Custom99 item handouts.

[chief]

So my guild will have the opportunity to get mobs on the repops days but the rest of the month we will still be required to stare at a wall and batphone? Am I understanding this correctly?

lol . . . . .

[Lisset]

By the amount of whining done, i'd say good job. :)

[Brain]

Really screws over the folks who work extra hard.

Rofl... "Work extra hard" - that's classic!

[Nocsucow]

More than fair. Really screws over the folks who work extra hard. Sounds like Custom99 item handouts.

I pity you my friend ...

[Clark]

I feel no pity for you Nocsucow you're a scrub, and surely not my friend. :)

[Nocsucow]

I feel no pity for you Nocsucow you're a scrub, and surely not my friend. :)

and what makes me a scrub again ?

[lazcar]

Yay, simple.

"No DA stalling, period" does this mean can't position Trak/eat banish with DA?

This is what recruits are for

[citizen1080]

This is what Rangers are for

Fixed for you

[Cyph]

In regards to the repops, will there be a randomness to it? There are many players who aren't located in the US (i.e. euro & asia).

[Joyelle]

More than fair. Really screws over the folks who work extra hard. Sounds like Custom99 item handouts.

How does this screw you over? Because you don't get every single spawn on the server now? Get the fuck over yourselves already.

[chickmagnet]

what about nobles on respawn? they only spawn on a 7 day timer....t1 guilds no longer going to be able to do them?

[Frieza_Prexus]

How does this screw you over? Because you don't get every single spawn on the server now? Get the fuck over yourselves already.

The point is that the accelerated introduction of items into the game will create a very real devaluation, on several levels, of otherwise scarce items.

The repops will not interfere with normal respawn timers, and repops 4X a month will have an appreciate negative effect. Of course, there are many positives to the plan, but it is also legitimate to point out the downsides.

[Joyelle]

Well Tier-1 couldn't concede any mobs so they had to make extra so everyone could have kills. That's just too bad.

[Bones]

this is the worst solution yet. Now raid items will be flooding the market devaluing everything. Might as well give us the ability to summon items.

What were you thinking Fonzo?
It will accelerate the aging of the server. People will burn out sooner from the combination of having to play so much more and attaining everything they want so quickly. It's perverting the game. very sadface
Coming from someone in tmo lol. Sirken cutting into his epic sales, nawmean?

[citizen1080]

who cares Velious is coming soon anyways, again just mad you can't charge exorbitant amounts of money for items anymore or wave e-peen status

Lay off Xasten sir. He is a voice of reason in a sea of shit.


Not saying your comment doesn't apply to others however =)

[Frieza_Prexus]

just mad you can't charge exorbitant amounts of money for items anymore or wave e-peen status

I'm anything but mad, given how strongly I've always supported the implemented solution. (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133596) Joyelle asked a question, and I answered it.

[baalzy]

I love all the "sky is falling the sky is falling" crap about 'devaluation' followed by custom99 derps.

You realize on live there were actual patches which occurred multiple times a month? These patches brought the server down and forced a repop.

Here:
http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/19992002.php

Look at it. LOOK AT IT. 3-4 patch days a month most months.

[Daldolma]

I love all the "sky is falling the sky is falling" crap about 'devaluation' followed by custom99 derps.

You realize on live there were actual patches which occurred multiple times a month? These patches brought the server down and forced a repop.

Here:
http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/19992002.php

Look at it. LOOK AT IT. 3-4 patch days a month most months.

Those who were in favor of the status quo did not want a classic solution, they wanted the continuance of non-classic mechanics that allowed for non-classic monopolization of raid content.

They're simply unhappy that the playing field has been changed after they contributed literally thousands of hours to dominating the flawed playing field.

[lazcar]

The point is that the accelerated introduction of items into the game will create a very real devaluation, on several levels, of otherwise scarce items.

The repops will not interfere with normal respawn timers, and repops 4X a month will have an appreciate negative effect. Of course, there are many positives to the plan, but it is also legitimate to point out the downsides.

You mean it will devalue the epic multiquests that you horde ?

[Bones]

I think the only ones crying about some impending economic disaster because of more supply of regulated raid targets/loot are the ones currently in total control of it. Repops are classic, multiple alt armies parked on multiple targets are not (at least on my server). Worst case scenario prices drop some and your platinum gains buying power.

Gm's giving them more chances to race other competitive t1 guilds in big VP instead of farming free kills and all they can think about is some filthy casual getting an AoN/CoF/watever without paying them their due.

[lazcar]

I think the only ones crying about some impending economic disaster because of more supply of regulated raid targets/loot are the ones currently in total control of it. Repops are classic, multiple alt armies parked on multiple targets are not (at least on my server). Worst case scenario prices drop some and your platinum gains buying power.

Gm's giving them more chances to race other competitive t1 guilds in big VP instead of farming free kills and all they can think about is some filthy casual getting an AoN/CoF/watever without paying them their due.

+>9000

[Unidus]

I love all the "sky is falling the sky is falling" crap about 'devaluation' followed by custom99 derps.

You realize on live there were actual patches which occurred multiple times a month? These patches brought the server down and forced a repop.

Here:
http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/19992002.php

Look at it. LOOK AT IT. 3-4 patch days a month most months.

Exactly. Anyone whining about the new repops needs to shut up. They are finally making it like it should have been.

[hatelore]

I think the only ones crying about some impending economic disaster because of more supply of regulated raid targets/loot are the ones currently in total control of it. Repops are classic, multiple alt armies parked on multiple targets are not (at least on my server). Worst case scenario prices drop some and your platinum gains buying power.

Gm's giving them more chances to race other competitive t1 guilds in big VP instead of farming free kills and all they can think about is some filthy casual getting an AoN/CoF/watever without paying them their due.


^ Post of the day right there.

[Frieza_Prexus]

You mean it will devalue the epic multiquests that you horde ?

Among other things, yes.

Of course, it'll also enable a great many more people to meaningfully participate in content that was otherwise impossible for them to ever see. The benefits undeniably outweigh the downside. The repop scheme is a net positive, but there is still a negative aspect that bears consideration.

For example, should repops happen every day? I suspect most people will say no. Should repops never happen? Again, most will say no. We can all accept the principle that you have to "dial it in." Thus, the issue is about the optimal frequency of repops. 4X a month is pretty close, but discussion (of the non-"sky is falling type") is still legitimate.

[Tikku82]

Hope there will be variance when the repops happens. If its like 6pm EST everytime, Euro and Asia gets foked!

[Derubael]

Xasten has been pretty vocal about supporting repops for a long time. Anyone calling him out for viewing this as a negative is not reading his posts.

He points out a valid concern. This will have an economic impact for the entire server. However, we are close to Velious, and overall that effect will be minimal. Dialing in the correct number of repops a month is tricky, but we feel that 3-4 is a safe place to start.

[Unidus]

Hope there will be variance when the repops happens. If its like 6pm EST everytime, Euro and Asia gets foked!

Stay up late. I had euros in my guild back on live and we raided at those times.

Xasten has been pretty vocal about supporting repops for a long time. Anyone calling him out for viewing this as a negative is not reading his posts.

He points out a valid concern. This will have an economic impact for the entire server. However, we are close to Velious, and overall that effect will be minimal. Dialing in the correct number of repops a month is tricky, but we feel that 3-4 is a safe place to start.

There are plenty of other items he can sell and still make good plat from. Fungis/FBSS etc. Epics are meant to quest and raid for not buy. Also the impact on the economy will be a welcome sight for 95% of the server population. In other words a good thing for most people except the people selling stuff they shouldn't be.

[heartbrand]

Will this repop effect red as well?

[Troubled]

Will this repop effect red as well?

Life on red got ya down? Tired of being at the mercy of the PNP, no variance, and no repops?

Try blue today!







Should post it in red too. Spammers!

[Frieza_Prexus]

Stay up late. I had euros in my guild back on live and we raided at those times.



There are plenty of other items he can sell and still make good plat from. Fungis/FBSS etc. Epics are meant to quest and raid for not buy. Also the impact on the economy will be a welcome sight for 95% of the server population. In other words a good thing for most people except the people selling stuff they shouldn't be.

You misunderstand, I generally do not participate in the economy; I'm actually quite poor. Joyelle initially asked the question of "how" does this hurt some people. I simply answered the question. I think this solution is great even if it might have a hole or two.

[dre]

Good to see the raid suspension was nothing but chest beating by the staff

[Unidus]

Well the holes are in the right place now. Rich guys in EC have a little less plat while the rest of the server benefits with lower prices and more raids to have a chance at getting kills on.

[Komodon]

Gm's giving them more chances to race other competitive t1 guilds in big VP instead of farming free kills and all they can think about is some filthy casual getting an AoN/CoF/watever without paying them their due.

I obviously can't speak for FE, but i can't recall a single TMO CoF that made it to the guild bank over the last year and a half, and certainly never an AoN (I actually got the last one, while residing on the upper end of the dkp spectrum).

Just wanted to clarify on that little detail of your rant. Carry on :)

[heazels]

Repop days are classic, Verant usually had one once a week because of patches. Variences are classic too, verants random code wasnt as wild though, it was every 4 hrs a mob had a chance to spawn.

[heazels]

The Server Wide Suspension will end Monday at 6pm EST

On the first two simulated patchday repops T1 Guilds are limited to VP, Naggy, and Vox, the other 1-2 simulated patchday repops will be FFA, rest of the mobs will be FFA. (that means 3-4 simulated patchday repops every month!)

T1 Guilds are no longer allowed to kill Vox and Naggy, except on simulated patchday repops.

the Guilds will continue their discussions to improve the raid scene here on project 1999, and we will ensure that no one side can try to strong arm or hold any one other side hostage.

Side Rules:

anyone caught intentionally training at raids eats a perma ban, and their guild eats a four week raid suspension.

we strongly encourage guilds to work out their own disputes before contacting the CSR staff, as you will probably not like our rulings.

respect FTE messages, anyone that ignores FTE and Kill Steals a mob will earn their guild a four week raid suspension.

No guild will have more than two representatives present at any raid mob at any time.

Players will not be allowed to camp out at raid mobs ahead of time to encourage actually racing for targets.

Consider greatly reducing variance if the poopsocking can be curbed by the above rules.

No DA Stalling, period.

A Guild will be considered a Teir 1 Guild by the staff, as soon as it starts competing for dragons within Veeshan's Peak.


This plan is perfect IMO....sirken 2.0

[Swifty]

Yeah! With that said, whats up with the US-favoritisme? What about those of us from the old country?

<3

[Culkasi]

Yeah! With that said, whats up with the US-favoritisme? What about those of us from the old country?

<3

What he said,

at least let us Euros refresh sky keys today etc

[Aprisle]

148th

[Rec]

If there was justice Euros would have their own server

[Moodie]

the Guilds will continue their discussions to improve the raid scene here on project 1999, and we will ensure that no one side can try to strong arm or hold any one other side


Tier 1 guilds got everything they wanted (minus Naggy and Vox (lol)) plus 1-2 more repops out of this "agreement". All the leverage of the casual guilds has been removed. I don't expect there to be any more talks, but I hope I'm wrong.

[rafaone]

What he said,

at least let us Euros refresh sky keys today etc

+1.

Let us at least go up today in the same therms as the rest of the server. 6PM EAST is 12PM here, on monday.

[Vandy]

what about nobles on respawn? they only spawn on a 7 day timer....t1 guilds no longer going to be able to do them?

t1 guilds can race for 2nd two repops of the month so if you are so inclined to go after noble first then by all means you can still "compete" for him.

[Swish]

Interested to see how this all works out in practice. People slating it haven't seen it working yet, so hold the criticism (for now) ;)

[kphooper33]

By the amount of whining done, i'd say good job. :)

Except by TMO, IB, FE, BDA you mean right? "We are not only not going to punish you for being complete D-bags to the server for years" We are going to give the casual scum a couple pops to fight over a month between 5-10 guilds that will be completely separate from yours, AND we are going to give you MQ champions (2-3 guilds, 1/4 the people) even MORE loot for your troubles. Hooray!" So like how are ANY of the simulated repop dragons aside from VP open to Tier1? Won't they have enough grief with the normal pops that they have already been getting for 2-3 years AND full VP repops as well? I know, this is better than it was, and that is AWESOME.. but I just don't see how Tier 2 players, who now have a chance of getting a slice of the pie, should be happy about Tier 1 players getting to keep their ENTIRE pie, and get another pie as well? If anyone should be happy about this, it should be T1, they gained more than anyone.. couldn't see that coming.

[falkun]

There are two ways repops can be implemented, which is it?
1) Repops will NOT affect timers of their raid mobs.
2) Repops WILL affect timers of their raid mobs.

If they do not affect them, then it is a net increase in raid mobs. If they do affect them, then the increase is minimalized and we essentially trade individual variance for all-raid-mobs variance.

[radditsu]

Wee separating people by tiers. Good job everyone.

[Tecmos Deception]

Except by TMO, IB, FE, BDA you mean right? "We are not only not going to punish you for being complete D-bags to the server for years" We are going to give the casual scum a couple pops to fight over a month between 5-10 guilds that will be completely separate from yours, AND we are going to give you MQ champions (2-3 guilds, 1/4 the people) even MORE loot for your troubles. Hooray!" So like how are ANY of the simulated repop dragons aside from VP open to Tier1? Won't they have enough grief with the normal pops that they have already been getting for 2-3 years AND full VP repops as well? I know, this is better than it was, and that is AWESOME.. but I just don't see how Tier 2 players, who now have a chance of getting a slice of the pie, should be happy about Tier 1 players getting to keep their ENTIRE pie, and get another pie as well? If anyone should be happy about this, it should be T1, they gained more than anyone.. couldn't see that coming.

It's probably something that is still open to some tweaking. Besides, "Tier 2 players" should be less concerned with what is happening to "Tier 1 players" and more concerned with what is happening to them. The goal here wasn't to punish TMO. The goal was to open up the raid scene. (Well I guess technically the goal was to reduce petitions).


The thing I dislike about this system is the way VP works. We all know that the line between "hardcore" raiders and "casual" raiders is primarily the lengths that the former are willing to go to in order to secure a kill. They'll track, have batphone lists, zerg up their guild to ensure the ability to track and field a raid force at any time of day or night, etc. The latter won't generally do that stuff.

So why is the thing that qualifies a guild for Tier 1 attempting to kill a VP dragon? That doesn't indicate that guild wants to track, batphone, zerg, or become involved in the drama that is always surrounding those top guilds. It really does feel like this is intended to be a punishment for any Tier 2 guild trying to down a VP dragon.

[weh8you]

Penis in your ear TMO, IB, FE, BDA!

[Elderan]

There are two ways repops can be implemented, which is it?
1) Repops will NOT affect timers of their raid mobs.
2) Repops WILL affect timers of their raid mobs.

If they do not affect them, then it is a net increase in raid mobs. If they do affect them, then the increase is minimalized and we essentially trade individual variance for all-raid-mobs variance.

I am almost positive they will effect the timers. They would have to code a custom timer for the other to happen and I have not heard them mention this before.

Some weeks you might have a net gain. Like the simulated repop happens 9 days after the last one. That would result in more mobs but it is less than 7 then only the 3 day mobs would be a net gain and even then it depends.

[finalgrunt]

2 full server repops for the casual / tier2 / <insert proper term> a month to compete against each other, that's quite nice actually! (more than I tried to bargain for with the 1 week every 10 back then).

Add a seemingly will to play hard ball with guilds using bad behavior, that's a good start in my opinion! And the "no camp at the target's feet" is just the cherry on top! Classic races and mobilization. How can't that be fun?

And people should look on the long term really. Top guilds could maintain their domination by having a rather unhealthy roster. But the domination ensured recruitment flow. Now, there is a choice at least for people who would like to stay in their casual guilds, and still have a chance at their epic.

If the top guilds want to keep on lockdown the targets, they'll have to do so, but it might become much more difficult to keep enough people motivated to share the burden associated with.

In short: be happy, see how it goes, and come back to the GMs IF the new system is still deeply flawed ;)

[MaksimMazor]

Long Live TMO

[Hinshi Budou]

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t134/CaptainMnemo/ChallengeSeries/SmartBadAssSpock.jpg

[Bones]

There are two ways repops can be implemented, which is it?
1) Repops will NOT affect timers of their raid mobs.
2) Repops WILL affect timers of their raid mobs.

If they do not affect them, then it is a net increase in raid mobs. If they do affect them, then the increase is minimalized and we essentially trade individual variance for all-raid-mobs variance.

Excellent point here. I'm betting the repops will affect timers simply because I think that's how its coded currently and I'm not sure if the devs can be arsed to fuck with it further.
But they can time the repops in a way where it shouldn't matter too much. Like for instance, doing a repop the next day after several high demand raid targets have been killed.

[ravensloss]

I had an idea about the extra spawns per month that might add some excitement, and confusion as to when a target like trakanon spawns. currently its 7days-downtimex2 as a window. so forgive me if the numbers arent exactly right. 3 days---100%--------, what i was thinking was, what if the timer didnt reset when trakanon spawned, what it if continues the window sometimes. 0%---100%----Spawn 20%---
This way its down 3days, full chance of spawn over entire window, untill it spawns, then 20% chance that it locks in a second spawn, during that existing window, or resets the downtime/window and starts over. would make it hard to track next spawn, or even next window.... just an idea

[Mirana]

It will accelerate the aging of the server. People will burn out sooner from the combination of having to play so much more and attaining everything they want so quickly. It's perverting the game. very sadface

Your posts are hilarious... You are applying your mentality to everyone else.

Most of the server just wants to experience the game. This will not "burn them out from playing more." In fact, this will enable them to play less and still be able to experience some end game raid encounters.

As far as "ruining the economy," as you mentioned in your previous post, I would argue who gives a crap? So what if every druid in tier 2 guilds has Elder Spiritist's Breastplate. Stop with your white knight BS about preserving the server, the only reason you REALLY care is because it makes you less elite in comparison.

[Aaron]

http://www.femmefan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/the-sky-is-falling-2.jpg

[Joroz]

The Server Wide Suspension will end Monday at 6pm EST

On the first two simulated patchday repops T1 Guilds are limited to VP, Naggy, and Vox, the other 1-2 simulated patchday repops will be FFA, rest of the mobs will be FFA. (that means 3-4 simulated patchday repops every month!)

T1 Guilds are no longer allowed to kill Vox and Naggy, except on simulated patchday repops.

the Guilds will continue their discussions to improve the raid scene here on project 1999, and we will ensure that no one side can try to strong arm or hold any one other side hostage.

Side Rules:

anyone caught intentionally training at raids eats a perma ban, and their guild eats a four week raid suspension.

we strongly encourage guilds to work out their own disputes before contacting the CSR staff, as you will probably not like our rulings.

respect FTE messages, anyone that ignores FTE and Kill Steals a mob will earn their guild a four week raid suspension.

No guild will have more than two representatives present at any raid mob at any time.

Players will not be allowed to camp out at raid mobs ahead of time to encourage actually racing for targets.

Consider greatly reducing variance if the poopsocking can be curbed by the above rules.

No DA Stalling, period.

A Guild will be considered a Teir 1 Guild by the staff, as soon as it starts competing for dragons within Veeshan's Peak.


Interesting, it's like giving teir1 a sharp sword that they will probably stab themselves with. Here is a bunch more chances to fuck up. we know you will... hope this really gets enforced.

[DrKvothe]

I thought this was an interesting and promising answer to the dilemma. However, I also feel that the Div plan, as well as several others, could have worked just as well or better had the guild leaders been informed that nearly doubling the number of spawns was going to be an option.

The Div plan or Rogean's plan wouldn't have worked with 4 additional monthly repops?

Did we just go through that shit-show for nothing? The goal of this was to civilize raiding in p99, but we all watched our guild leaders get dragged through the mud with the RnF trolls in Server Chat. The forum became the new arena for hateful, often libelous rhetoric comparable to the inexcusable in-game tactics that led us here in the first place.

Thank you for getting the raid scene under control. But understand why some people aren't particularly happy with the way it was done.

[SeruScars]

I thought this was an interesting and promising answer to the dilemma. However, I also feel that the Div plan, as well as several others, could have worked just as well or better had the guild leaders been informed that nearly doubling the number of spawns was going to be an option.

The Div plan or Rogean's plan wouldn't have worked with 4 additional monthly repops?

Did we just go through that shit-show for nothing? The goal of this was to civilize raiding in p99, but we all watched our guild leaders get dragged through the mud with the RnF trolls in Server Chat. The forum became the new arena for hateful, often libelous rhetoric comparable to the inexcusable in-game tactics that led us here in the first place.

Thank you for getting the raid scene under control. But understand why some people aren't particularly happy with the way it was done.


You are mistaken. The goal was to decrease petitions.

[Bruman]

You are mistaken. The goal was to decrease petitions.

That's what Sirken wants. Not what Rogen wants (well, I'm sure he wants that too, but that's not the sole thing). The server staff is not in unanimous agreement about the goals, which is what caused a lot of headache during the discussions.

From Rogean:
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131586


It continues to be an aggravating realization among CSR staff that 10% of the server population causes 90% of the problems. We are all for competition, but it needs to be fair competition. We are also all here for the same thing, to experience classic Everquest. The same guild monopolizing raid content for 2 years that they might not even need anymore is ridiculous, just to block other guilds from the chance of gearing up to take on the same end game content.

I was thinking to myself the other day and I came to ask myself.. Are we providing this server to give people the arena to compete to such bitter extremes that it has resorted to taking every absolute measure to be victorious, or are we here to provide a classic Everquest experience for everyone to enjoy?

A lot of you make fun of it in your own terms, but it really does come down to fighting over very old content.

Either way, we're tired of the constant bickering, the training, the ninja looting, and all the other bullshit that's going on. So here's what we're going to do.

Starting today and then evaluated when Velious is released the CSR staff will be keeping track of how the raid guilds are treating eachother. If we do not see a significant improvement in the behavior of the raiding guilds and how they treat eachother, Velious will be released without raid content. To be clear, we want an enjoyable raid scene for everyone, not just one or two guilds. This means working together to figure out a compromise when racing for mobs, and working with smaller guilds to let them have a chance at mobs you don't absolutely need for gearing main characters.


(emphasis mine)

Again - the server staff does not agree on things.

[Argh]

That's what Sirken wants. Not what Rogen wants (well, I'm sure he wants that too, but that's not the sole thing). The server staff is not in unanimous agreement about the goals, which is what caused a lot of headache during the discussions.

Again - the server staff does not agree on things.



Starting today and then evaluated when Velious is released the CSR staff will be keeping track of how the raid guilds are treating eachother. If we do not see a significant improvement in the behavior of the raiding guilds and how they treat eachother, Velious will be released without raid content. To be clear, we want an enjoyable raid scene for everyone, not just one or two guilds. This means working together to figure out a compromise when racing for mobs, and working with smaller guilds to let them have a chance at mobs you don't absolutely need for gearing main characters.



FTFY

[Rhambuk]

but we all watched our guild leaders get dragged through the mud with the RnF trolls in Server Chat.

I don't think anyone was dragged through the mud that didn't lay down in the slop to begin with.

I only saw a few people from tmo/ib/fe who don't give a shitaki mushroom what the forum community thinks, and a couple from bda taken who did get heated unnecessarily but there were several guilds who didn't tarnish there names at all throughout all of this, in my opinion

[Uteunayr]

FTFY

Yeah, this was stupid. Nothing about the casual side necessitates not racing, and not competing. Casual guilds can race and can compete, but they don't want to do it with TMO/FE/IB, and perhaps not even with BDA (without some limitations imposed due to size), because they want to have more friendly competition amongst themselves and have the ability to actually race and compete for mobs with more than a snowball's chance in hell. Rogean's Plan accommodated that, and it permitted the casuals to race and to have a chance at mobs amongst themselves, while letting hardcores race and fight over their own share of mobs. But apparently having 3 mobs a day, every day, for every month, was too little for the hardcore guilds to get behind, because the casual guilds would get 1 a week if they were lucky.

[Nirgon]

I cannot more highly commend the staff for being a part of this compromise and stepping in to ALSO be a part of the solution and provide repop days for the "non-lifer" guilds.

This really is a community wide compromise and I can't say I saw the simulated patch days coming into the picture like this.

A+

[skipdog]

Great work by the staff!

[Funkutron5000]

I cannot more highly commend the staff for being a part of this compromise and stepping in to ALSO be a part of the solution and provide repop days for the "non-lifer" guilds.

This really is a community wide compromise and I can't say I saw the simulated patch days coming into the picture like this.

A+

They dropped the 3-4 repops a month thing on us from what seemed like out of the blue. It really threw a wrench into everything.

The good kind of wrench, that when it gets thrown into things it fixes them. Or at least the kind that gives you hope that something might be fixed. It'll be an interesting experiment, if nothing else!

[Uteunayr]

This really is a community wide compromise and I can't say I saw the simulated patch days coming into the picture like this.

Compromise is defined as an agreement or a settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions. Unless you see the play nice policy as a form of concession, then there were no concessions made by the hardcore guilds in this arrangement.

The question has laid on the distribution of mobs. We have X number, how do those get divvied up among the server guilds? The style championed by FE/TMO, etc., is the one that is more advantageous to them, the FFA system. Other people remember a classic experience of cooperation. So each side has, in their mind, what their ideal classic server is, and what they want from it.

Lets look at what happens now. You have 4 new repops added, the first two go to casuals. So, before this system, there were X mobs, and now there are X + Y mobs. The hardcores still get X mobs with the same level they did before, but they also get 1/2 Y. So, their total is X + 1/2 Y, meanwhile casuals go from 0 to 1/2 Y, without getting a share of X.

This isn't a compromise. This was a gain for the hardcore raiders more than anything. If a casual guild wants to do anything but go along for these 2 repops (which should last, what, 4 to 6 hours if you count both together, depending on how long it takes?), they are still required to play on the hardcore raider's terms.

This is in no way even close to concessions on both sides, this is casuals accepting and giving up any hope on creating their classic experience because the hardcore guilds wouldn't compromise on anything. After all, they owned the server, and now they get to own the server, and now proportionally even more. And casuals still have to play in the style of hardcore raiders to get anywhere, other than for 6 hours a month.

I just don't see how any guild, GM or guide can dictate any guild to adapt to a play style they don't want to. Focus on that, figure how the two different sides can adapt it to this problem. Limiting NPCs to one tier or another and forced into the other side's play style is the second biggest issue.

[SeruScars]

Compromise is defined as an agreement or a settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions. Unless you see the play nice policy as a form of concession, then there were no concessions made by the hardcore guilds in this arrangement.

The question has laid on the distribution of mobs. We have X number, how do those get divvied up among the server guilds? The style championed by FE/TMO, etc., is the one that is more advantageous to them, the FFA system. Other people remember a classic experience of cooperation. So each side has, in their mind, what their ideal classic server is, and what they want from it.

Lets look at what happens now. You have 4 new repops added, the first two go to casuals. So, before this system, there were X mobs, and now there are X + Y mobs. The hardcores still get X mobs with the same level they did before, but they also get 1/2 Y. So, their total is X + 1/2 Y, meanwhile casuals go from 0 to 1/2 Y, without getting a share of X.


This isn't a compromise. This was a gain for the hardcore raiders more than anything. If a casual guild wants to do anything but go along for these 2 repops (which should last, what, 4 to 6 hours if you count both together, depending on how long it takes?), they are still required to play on the hardcore raider's terms.

This is in no way even close to concessions on both sides, this is casuals accepting and giving up any hope on creating their classic experience because the hardcore guilds wouldn't compromise on anything. After all, they owned the server, and now they get to own the server, and half the repops.


Good fucking grief. Does your misery know no bounds?

[Uteunayr]

Good fucking grief. Does your misery know no bounds?

Misery? No. This is a game for me. I am not feeling anything, as this game does not hold emotional sway over me. I am articulating the problem here, and why this does not qualify as a compromise by definition. Please, argue against the logic if you have an argument, otherwise do not attack the person. It is a logical fallacy. I am a political scientist by profession, so these type of arrangements are something I have spent a great deal of time looking into. And that said, this is not, by definition, a compromise.

[Rhambuk]

casuals get a guaranteed 2 full respawns a month, and vox nag the rest of the month.

Though hardcores may be getting more targets they certainly aren't going to be making as many sales on epic mq's.

now that casual guilds know they have a reasonable shot at the raid mob I think they would be willing to try and get the drop legitimately instead of spending 250k plat.

also the casual guilds can sell epic mq rots to non raiders and buy epic bits from tmo to gear up themselves, nice trade off there.

its hardly anything to complain about as most casuals don't want to raid every single day or even every single week for that matter.

[Raavak]

So why is the thing that qualifies a guild for Tier 1 attempting to kill a VP dragon?I guess because for this system you need to draw a line somewhere, and Veeshan's Peak is Kunark's "end game". The end game is where the most heated competition exists; where the hard-core raiders play.

I can see how A-Team might view this, and maybe some in BDA, etc. You had hoped that end game loot would be more accessible after this was settled. But really, that's not Classic.

Honestly, farm Tier 2 targets for half a year and maybe Velious may be close anyway, after which VP will be much more open, and this whole agreement will become moot. If its not out, bust into the Tier 1 rat race.

[Uteunayr]

casuals get a guaranteed 2 full respawns a month, and vox nag the rest of the month.

Though hardcores may be getting more targets they certainly aren't going to be making as many sales on epic mq's.

now that casual guilds know they have a reasonable shot at the raid mob I think they would be willing to try and get the drop legitimately instead of spending 250k plat.

also the casual guilds can sell epic mq rots to non raiders and buy epic bits from tmo to gear up themselves, nice trade off there.

its hardly anything to complain about as most casuals don't want to raid every single day or even every single week for that matter.

I did not say it is upsetting, nor am I complaining. I am saying that this is not the solution the server needed to create a lasting reduction to conflict between guilds. The conflict is going to continue, but now when a guild like TMO, or another down the line, is able to monopolize all content, guilds cannot even attempt to do a tactic as shitty as poopsocking to level the playing field. Sure, no one has fun doing it, but that's the type of tactic a more casual guild would have to employ with those power houses. This is like Vietnam giving up their right to use guerrilla warfare, in exchange for some bombers, while the United States still has their entire military, plus an equal number of bombers. Casual guilds are going to have a much harder time on the level playing field than by using guerrilla tactics to get their kills. The bad strategies that casuals had to employ to attempt to compete with the power house guilds are gone, and in exchange, they now get 6 hours of casual play a month, and the rest of the time, the top guilds get proportionally more than they had before. Now, the casual guilds must manage to play the hardcore game if they want to play the game for anything more than 6 hours a month for the 2 repops.

Therefore, no compromise was made other than the surrendering if monopolizing epic content, but that wasn't even completely true, as guilds such as Taken have shown the ability to get in and take out VS, and BDA took out CT a month or so back. So, they went from having most of the epic mobs, to still having most of the epic mobs, with a few of them going to the casuals. This can only be seen as a compromise insofar as you see the hardcores as having a right to exclusively monopolize the content.

That does not fit the criteria for a compromise. Again, this is a step forward, it is more fair than it was, but that only exists because of extra mobs being generated, not from sacrifice of the hardcore side. Therefore, it does not deserve being called a compromise, as it wasn't by definition.

[oldschooltrader]

Good fucking grief. Does your misery know no bounds?

i dont think he is complaining at all. Just simply pointing out if you want to call this a compromise, the HC/T1 had to give something up as well ( which they did not, the staff had to invent spawns to give the casuals the mobs the HCs wouldnt share)

the PnP rules were going to change regardless the outcome of talks however thr T1 side used the "tactics" that are being taken away with this change of server policy as their concession.

overall was great for the staff to get the ball rolling on something, for the up and coming T2 guilds make sure u contact Div/BDA about your aspirations as the T2 repop "engagement policy" is being worked on this week n needs to b fair to all casuals

[SeruScars]

Now, the casual guilds must manage to play the hardcore game if they want to play the game for anything more than 6 hours a month for the 2 repops.

The staff is giving you TWO FULL RE-POPS that the RAIDING guilds (vs FAMILY guilds) cannot touch outside of VP/Nag/Vox.

Now you may have to compete against other FAMILY guilds for these targets, so you still aren't satisfied?

[Rhambuk]

2 guaranteed T2 repops, and 1-2 ffa repops. T1 are not going to get all the raid mobs on those last 1-2 repops its not possible even with alt armies, as long as there is some sort of warning which they are working on.

they've also stated that if guilds work better with each other they will lower the variance which again may mean more mobs for casuals outside of repops.

I'm not arguing with you that this isn't a compromise Uteunayr, but your neutral factual tone is making it sound like casuals are getting screwed over and the hardcores are gaining when really hardcores aren't gaining all that much and not losing anything, while casuals are gaining a shitton while losing nothing.

[oldschooltrader]

The staff is giving you TWO FULL RE-POPS that the RAIDING guilds (vs FAMILY guilds) cannot touch outside of VP/Nag/Vox.

Now you may have to compete against other FAMILY guilds for these targets, so you still aren't satisfied?

ur not reading his posts

pls go away when u understand how to read

hes saying when the repops are over for the month its all HC FFA all the time

the only time to play "casually" to get a big target are the 6 hours or so we get to handle the repops

[Uteunayr]

The staff is giving you TWO FULL RE-POPS that the RAIDING guilds (vs FAMILY guilds) cannot touch outside of VP/Nag/Vox.

Now you may have to compete against other FAMILY guilds for these targets, so you still aren't satisfied?

6 hours (if that) of playing a casual style (that's all "TWO FULL RE-POPS" comes down to in game time) is what was accepted, when if a compromise did happen, casuals could be casual all month long, and hardcores could be hardcore all month long. No one has to lose, the only thing lost in the staff proposal would be the ability for the hardcore, top tier guilds to shit on those below them, because their kills would be isolated from the others. That's the only compromise that would be made, giving up schadenfreude.

But what currently exists is the same system as before, except that for 6 hours (if it even takes 3 hours per repop, which is way out of proportion, lets be honest) of every month, we get to play in a more casual way. That's not a compromise, and it doesn't deserve to be labelled with that.

2 guaranteed T2 repops, and 1-2 ffa repops. T1 are not going to get all the raid mobs on those last 1-2 repops its not possible even with alt armies, as long as there is some sort of warning which they are working on.

they've also stated that if guilds work better with each other they will lower the variance which again may mean more mobs for casuals outside of repops.

I'm not arguing with you that this isn't a compromise Uteunayr, but your neutral factual tone is making it sound like casuals are getting screwed over and the hardcores are gaining when really hardcores aren't gaining all that much and not losing anything, while casuals are gaining a shitton while losing nothing.

This only generates, as I have said, around 6 hours a month (which is generous) of casual play for casual guilds. For the other 726 hours of the month, they need to play in the hardcore style.

From my standpoint, yes, the casuals are getting screwed from the potential of the negotiations. They got more than they had before, but the hardcores gained an equal amount, so very little has changed. Casuals still must play in a hardcore fashion for the *vast* majority of the month, which is going to continue the conflicts between guilds that was the entire purpose (at least originally) of doing all this, to reduce said conflicts. These conflicts wont resolve so long as casuals are forced to play casual if they want to play this game for anything more than 6 hours a month. The same would be true if the entire server went full rotation and full casual, as then the suffering would be on the hardcore players side, requiring them to play a style they don't want, and I'd be arguing for their side, that they should be able to have their hardcore, cutthroat competition, because everyone should be able to get a classic experience, not just hardcores, not just casuals. Both have a classic experience, either hardcore competition, or more cooperative, friendly competition, or even server rotations. The staff plan provided for this, but instead we get more of the same, and that is not likely to create a long term reduction of conflict, since the casuals only get to be casual 6 hours of the month.

I am not saying I am going to cause trouble or any shit like that, this is just a game to me and honestly not that serious, but from a pure scientific standpoint, it is irrational for the casuals to accept giving up the ability to use devious ploys to level the playing field, in return for 6 hours of casual play a month. Casual guilds are not going to be able to mobilize and form as fast as TMO/FE/IB, not even close to as well as they could utilize main/alt camping, and other styles of more "guerrilla" competition. This deal (not compromise) doesn't solve the major issues of conflict, and it removes a great number of teeth that the casual guilds had, in exchange for 6 out of 732 hours of casual play.

Again, a stepping stone forward, but not a compromise.

[Aaron]

All the dragon loot for sale suddenly in EC today is hilarious.

[SeruScars]

They got more than they had before, but the hardcores gained an equal amount, so very little has changed.


FAMILY guilds are going to get way more targets, but RAIDING guilds will too, so still not satisfied.

[Rhambuk]

at this exact moment you are correct yes.

but its a first step, they are still in talks about how to improve the raid scene, guilds are trying to set up rotations with each other variance will possible be reduced.

Right now, yes. In a couple weeks we could see variance reduced to a few hours a reasonable amount of time for even casual guilds to attempt on these ffa targets throughout the month, working together now on a rotation building healthy relationships and trust we may even see them combining forces so that during off hours they can still compete with T1/T2 on non repop targets reasonably standing a chance where they previously couldn't consider it.

I believe that this is the basis for a very healthy raid community it just needs a little time to grow.

[Uteunayr]

FAMILY guilds are going to get way more targets, but RAIDING guilds will too, so still not satisfied.

Raiding is not necessarily defined by inherent competition between the members. To try and define the competitive individuals within the system as the "raiders", and everyone else as "family" greatly obfuscates the truth. A heavily competitive system may be yourmemory of your classic experience, but mine... I came from a server with cooperation, and it was a really fun time. You can be both family and raiding, you can be family and hardcore, you can be family and casual. You can be raiding and casual, you can be raiding and hardcore. But raiders and family people do not demand two different things that are mutually exclusive... Casuals and hardcores do. This doesn't give each the room they need to experience their classic.

I believe that this is the basis for a very healthy raid community it just needs a little time to grow.

Never before have I seen, in any study of international relations, an example of hardcore competition over limited resources existing peacefully, without conflict, with those that desire a more cooperative style of distribution of resources. Perhaps the most analogous example I can bring up is Democracies and Autocracies. Democracies have been noted to have a peaceful quality to them, in that democracies do not tend to go to war with other democracies. In other words, these guilds (states) do not compete in terms of military might with the other guilds (states). This research is heavily spearheaded by a man named Russett. Brilliant man. Anyway, although they are militarily peaceful with one another, and instead bargaining diplomatically, they trade, they do things other than war over limited resources, some counter arguments exist that democracies do not act that peaceful to autocracies. Autocracies, being ideologically opposed (See Haas, 2007), are a threat to the democratic lifestyle, and to the autocracy, democracy is a threat to the autocratic regime's power. Each side cannot mutually coexist without inherent conflict between the two systems. Although democracies may create autocracies for control, it tends to come back and bite them in the ass (just look at much of what the United States did in South America).

The basic point I am making is that hardcores have a specific vision of what the game is about, and it is inherently competition. Casuals have another vision of what the game is about, cooperation and complex interdependence (see Keohane and Nye). These two systems do not mutually coexist peacefully, and so this system is not about to bring about any form of long lasting peace between the guilds, nor any long term reduction in conflict, because it doesn't give each a sphere to be themselves in on any fair basis, other than casuals get to casual for 6 hours a month, and the other 726 are for hardcores. This is not going to reduce conflict.

[falkun]

FAMILY guilds are going to get way more targets, but RAIDING guilds will too, so still not satisfied.

Not satisfied because the proposals we were allowed to generate were expressly forbade from mandating code or CSR support changes. Yet the ultimate plan, dictated by CSR from a closed-door CSR+tier1/hardcore conversation includes code (respawn) and CSR support (increased PNP enforcement) changes. The rules of the game were changed mid-cycle.

[SeruScars]

Not satisfied because the proposals we were allowed to generate were expressly forbade from mandating code or CSR support changes. Yet the ultimate plan, dictated by CSR from a closed-door CSR+tier1/hardcore conversation includes code (respawn) and CSR support (increased PNP enforcement) changes. The rules of the game were changed mid-cycle.

Because ultimately you don't want more targets, you just want raiding guilds to stop raiding.

[Uteunayr]

Because ultimately you don't want more targets, you just want raiding guilds to stop raiding.

No, let hardcores hardcore. But they can't expect to reduce conflict by forcing casuals to hardcore if they want to play this game for more than 6 hours a month.

The staff plan let hardcores hardcore all month long, and it let casuals play the game all month long, without either side hurting the other. Awesome. Why wasn't it taken? Greed? Schadenfreude? Make your own choice. It certainly wasn't because of competition.

[falkun]

Because ultimately you don't want more targets, you just want raiding guilds to stop raiding.

Thanks for putting inaccurate words in my mouth, I did not say what I did or did not want. I said what we as players were allowed and not allowed to include in our proposals.

[Doril]

Are repops going to be scheduled, or randomized times throughout the month?

To keep it classic repops are to happen between 10am and 12am EST, its how its been.

Wait.... Rogean is american, GMs are americans.... this will not happen.... so much about classicness of this server

[nilbog]

To keep it classic repops are to happen between 10am and 12am EST, its how its been.

Wait.... Rogean is american, GMs are americans.... this will not happen.... so much about classicness of this server

When there is an automated system, the repops should be completely random to include the chance for all time zones. That's what I suggest.

[Culkasi]

When there is an automated system, the repops should be completely random to include the chance for all time zones. That's what I suggest.

Can we refresh Sky corpses now please for Euros? pretty please? :)

[chickmagnet]

first off, if your playing for 6 hours a month, who cares if you get an epic or a top tier mob, your spending more time whining about it on forumquest than actually playing the game....there are some people who actually track for 40+ odd hours a week because they enjoy the competition, and the drive to get something more than the guys who play 6 hours a month. There is nothing stopping these casual guilds, most of them have batphones and 50+ members when raiding, but the very idea of 1 of them to track a couple hours a week is a ridiculous concept to them and think they should get a piece of the hardcore gamers pie, before you whine on here about game content and what your guild is not getting, ask yourself this question, how many hours have you tracked for the boss for your epic? or what have you contributed? did you wake up for that 2am batphone? and by respawning more mobs and taking tier 1 guilds out of the equation, do you think that will make it any easier? whats stopping Taken, BDA, and Divinity from stepping up to being the next guild to stop you from getting epics, how many Taken members needed Ragefire, for a few months straight, the only way a cleric could get epic was either joining them or buying a mq from them....keep that in mind, its not the guild that controls mobs, its the guildies themselves and their drive to pursue them

[Uteunayr]

whats stopping Taken, BDA, and Divinity from stepping up to being the next guild to stop you from getting epics, how many Taken members needed Ragefire, for a few months straight, the only way a cleric could get epic was either joining them or buying a mq from them....keep that in mind, its not the guild that controls mobs, its the guildies themselves and their drive to pursue them

http://i.imgur.com/c8eSBDC.gif

[Doril]

When there is an automated system, the repops should be completely random to include the chance for all time zones. That's what I suggest.

Not classic

[Atmas]

So you're telling me you haven't been standing there in a safe spot waiting to pull the mob you mobilized first on only to get trained by one of those T1 players... While they speak on how proud they are to train you... Nothing has changed. Only more mobs to play petitionquest with..

Sorry, I didn't buy 3 characters when it was the "in" thing to do.. Most of us didn't amass an army to park at every uber mob. This bullshit idea of putting in more effort is just that, bullshit. We all track the same mobs... We all log in/mobilize on targets the same way..

This isn't play-style.. you turned this shit into your "LIFE-style"...

You've got to be kidding me with this, the guilds that are about to become T1 got mobs 99% of the time because they were the only ones that showed up. A sob story about how you didn't get mobs because of trains is ridiculous.

[whitebandit]

When there is an automated system, the repops should be completely random to include the chance for all time zones. That's what I suggest.

Thank you Nilbog!

[SeruScars]

http://i.imgur.com/c8eSBDC.gif

Your picture is worth a 1000 words. Good choice.

[Rhambuk]

When there is an automated system, the repops should be completely random to include the chance for all time zones. That's what I suggest.

What about a buffer time between repops, I made a post about it here.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134173

now I'm sure you guys have a plan and know what you want it to look like, im also sure you don't want to divulge any unnecessary information.

I was just curious if it would be coded as 1 random repop a week or would it be 4 random repops throughout the month allowing for (see link)

[Troubled]

What about a buffer time between repops, I made a post about it here.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134173

now I'm sure you guys have a plan and know what you want it to look like, im also sure you don't want to divulge any unnecessary information.

I was just curious if it would be coded as 1 random repop a week or would it be 4 random repops throughout the month allowing for (see link)

Stopped reading link at "Questoin"

[nilbog]

To keep it classic repops are to happen between 10am and 12am EST, its how its been.

Wait.... Rogean is american, GMs are americans.... this will not happen.... so much about classicness of this server



Excluding the notes which didn't include a time:

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December 1, 1999 7:00am
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August 9th, 7:00am
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April 18, 2001 Luclin Announced - Press Release
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[Kristian]

first off, if your playing for 6 hours a month, who cares if you get an epic or a top tier mob, your spending more time whining about it on forumquest than actually playing the game....there are some people who actually track for 40+ odd hours a week because they enjoy the competition, and the drive to get something more than the guys who play 6 hours a month. There is nothing stopping these casual guilds, most of them have batphones and 50+ members when raiding, but the very idea of 1 of them to track a couple hours a week is a ridiculous concept to them and think they should get a piece of the hardcore gamers pie, before you whine on here about game content and what your guild is not getting, ask yourself this question, how many hours have you tracked for the boss for your epic? or what have you contributed? did you wake up for that 2am batphone? and by respawning more mobs and taking tier 1 guilds out of the equation, do you think that will make it any easier? whats stopping Taken, BDA, and Divinity from stepping up to being the next guild to stop you from getting epics, how many Taken members needed Ragefire, for a few months straight, the only way a cleric could get epic was either joining them or buying a mq from them....keep that in mind, its not the guild that controls mobs, its the guildies themselves and their drive to pursue them

You DO realize that it's impossible for mentally healthy people leading balanced lives to sink 40 hours a week into this, right? The average hobbyist gamer gets 13 hours a week, at 40 a week you're well into compulsive behavior that warrants professional help.

[Derubael]

@nilbog
Looks pretty euro friendly to me :D

[radditsu]

That's when the patches STARTED right?

They would take hours to get the servers back up. They shoved em back to the wee morn because of this.

[Rhambuk]

That's when the patches STARTED right?

They would take hours to get the servers back up. They shoved em back to the wee morn because of this.

believe so.

I played a euro guild on live and remember servers normally coming down at 7-8a and back up around 2p.

It sucked working overnights coming home to play some eq and the first thing you see when you log in is, Servers coming down for maintenance in 10:00 please find a safe place to log out

[nilbog]

That's when the patches STARTED right?

They would take hours to get the servers back up. They shoved em back to the wee morn because of this.

This is to show the various hours which they would begin or end, discounting the emergency server shutdowns which happened frequently for years and didn't include notes.

[chickmagnet]

wow kristian, good point, kudos! 13 hours a week, that's what roughly 2 hours a day? what do you care if your guild gets a boss mob? your casual, live a casual lifestyle and not worry about this game...I however, don't play 40 hours a week, I have a life too, but if 1 were to play that many hours and have that type of motivation then I say they deserve it. I don't get all pissed off that I didn't win the lottery if I didn't buy a ticket, so I don't think other casual gamers should get ticked if they didn't track a mob, this is a competitive game, lower tier mobs are for lower tier guilds, if your on for 13 hours a week, go camp hadden or something else that fits in your play time

[Argh]

No guild will have more than two representatives present at any raid mob at any time.


Does this forbid people from prepping in the same zone as the mob (not at the mobs spawn location) before a repop the same way it forbids alt's to be camped in the same zone?

Also, does this prevent guild from having everyone level in target zones during windows (i.e. Juggs/Reets during trak window)?

[Spitty]

This is to show the various hours which they would begin or end, discounting the emergency server shutdowns which happened frequently for years and didn't include notes.

This.

Patch start/end times and durations were all over the board. There were 12 hour patches that started at 3AM PST and were supposed to end by 8AM, and then there were 15-minute quick fixes where everyone logged to the EQ chat and sat in custom chat rooms waiting for patch notes.

This whole fucking thread is filled with non-raiders pissed off about raid topics, and non-classic players trying to convince people of how classic events took place. It's unbelievable.

[Mirana]

there are some people who actually track for 40+ odd hours a week because they enjoy the competition, and the drive to get something more than the guys who play 6 hours a month.

Seeing the word "drive" after "tracking for 40+ hours a week" made me laugh. As if spamming track is some mental feat similar to losing 50 pounds or starting a business.

The hardcores seem to think that casuals don't want to work for their items. That is, generally speaking, not the case. The casuals really DO want to work for their items, just not at the expense of their personal lives, which is what they would have to do with the server in its current state.

Also, all of you people talking about how repops will hurt the economy... You are like a morbidly obese fast food addict arguing against the local McDonald's shutting down because people will lose jobs. Just stop.

[Uteunayr]

The hardcores seem to think that casuals don't want to work for their items. That is, generally speaking, not the case. The casuals really DO want to work for their items, just not at the expense of their personal lives, which is what they would have to do with the server in its current state.

Also, I'd add that maintaining rotations, and friendly relations among guilds who each want a share of the pie... That's a lot of work. It's just a different type of work.

[chickmagnet]

All im saying, if your a casual gamer, why do u care if you have best in slot item, those 6 hours your on a month, go get planar armor, relatively high drop rate and great just to have something on....if the devs spoon fed you with all the best gear, what would be the point of this game if we all had epics and vp gear? its like the hardcore gymaholics, if working out 1 day a month gave us ridiculously good looking bodies, what's the point of putting many hours in? people would give up on the dumb game and just wait for next expansion, its the competition and rarity of items that drive us to keep playing

[Spitty]

The hardcores seem to think that casuals don't want to work for their items. That is, generally speaking, not the case. The casuals really DO want to work for their items, just not at the expense of their personal lives, which is what they would have to do with the server in its current state.

For a lot of people, this was never about sacrificing personal time to compete on the raid circuit here.

I, and quite a few people in my guild, have plenty of time to raid. We just absolutely refuse to abandon our integrity as decent people just so some of the shittiest humans I've ever encountered would consider us "raiders" or "competitive".

This rule-set makes it so I don't have to train/exploit/stall/alt-army/etc in order to race for targets. I appreciate that.

[Daldaen]

The Server Wide Suspension will end Monday at 6pm EST

On the first two simulated patchday repops T1 Guilds are limited to VP, Naggy, and Vox, the other 1-2 simulated patchday repops will be FFA, rest of the mobs will be FFA. (that means 3-4 simulated patchday repops every month!)

T1 Guilds are no longer allowed to kill Vox and Naggy, except on simulated patchday repops.

the Guilds will continue their discussions to improve the raid scene here on project 1999, and we will ensure that no one side can try to strong arm or hold any one other side hostage.

Side Rules:

anyone caught intentionally training at raids eats a perma ban, and their guild eats a four week raid suspension.

we strongly encourage guilds to work out their own disputes before contacting the CSR staff, as you will probably not like our rulings.

respect FTE messages, anyone that ignores FTE and Kill Steals a mob will earn their guild a four week raid suspension.

No guild will have more than two representatives present at any raid mob at any time.

Players will not be allowed to camp out at raid mobs ahead of time to encourage actually racing for targets.

Consider greatly reducing variance if the poopsocking can be curbed by the above rules.

No DA Stalling, period.

A Guild will be considered a Teir 1 Guild by the staff, as soon as it starts competing for dragons within Veeshan's Peak.


No mention is made of the penalty for a neckbeard guild killing a mob during the casual guild's resets? Is that a 4 week ban too?

Also at what point do repop mobs become FFA? If casual repop is Sunday afternoon and Inny is due up on Monday, and repopped Sunday Inny is still up Monday, is that fair game? What about if Inny isn't due up til Friday but Sunday Inny is still up Monday? Or are they reserved until the next FFA repop?

[Mirana]

All im saying, if your a casual gamer, why do u care if you have best in slot item, those 6 hours your on a month, go get planar armor, relatively high drop rate and great just to have something on...

I can't speak entirely for the casuals (I'm somewhat between casual/hardcore myself, and I apologize for "branding" because there are many shades of grey here), but I think for a lot of them it is more about the experience. Getting with their friends and trying to kill a dragon that they never got to do on live. Maybe, just maybe, getting one piece of phat loot to go with their vermiculated leggings and forest loops.

I guess one could argue that casuals shouldn't get the luxury of experiencing those things without putting in the time, which brings us back to square one... what is the point of this server?

When I started playing here I thought the point was to allow everyone to experience the best from greatest game ever made, especially those that missed out on it the first time. Why turn it into more than that?

Yeah I know, "part of the experience is competing for mobs, blah blah etc etc." Agree to disagree I guess.

[drakelord]

I can't speak entirely for the casuals (I'm somewhat between casual/hardcore myself, and I apologize for "branding" because there are many shades of grey here), but I think for a lot of them it is more about the experience. Getting with their friends and trying to kill a dragon that they never got to do on live. Maybe, just maybe, getting one piece of phat loot to go with their vermiculated leggings and forest loops.

I guess you can argue that they don't get the luxury of experiencing those things without putting in the time, which brings us back to square one... people play for different reasons.

Not agreeing or disagreeing, but if one wanted to do just that, why not just download the server and PEQ database, boot up your own server, get friends, kill dragon? Isn't the point of playing on a server this size the competition and social aspects you wouldn't get on a solo server?
(Yes, there are obviously flaws in that argument, playing devil's advocate.)

[Uteunayr]

Not agreeing or disagreeing, but if one wanted to do just that, why not just download the server and PEQ database, boot up your own server, get friends, kill dragon? Isn't the point of playing on a server this size the competition and social aspects you wouldn't get on a solo server?
(Yes, there are obviously flaws in that argument, playing devil's advocate.)

EverQuest wasn't only defined by competition, though, it was also defined by cooperation. It is amazing that, to this day, no MMO has been properly designed as to allow for complex interdependence of the player base to create as great of a community as classic EverQuest did. Community is always a part of it, which is why making a solo server isn't fun.

Rotations, friendly raiding, they were all felt in classic EverQuest, just as hardcore competition was. The purpose that most people come to this server for is to relive the glory days of EverQuest, and achieve what they couldn't before. So, if you come from a hardcore competition server, then this server is just great for you. But there are also those who come from more cooperative, friendly raiding servers, and these people do not get to relive their classic experience, and achieve what they couldn't before. A solo server will never be a classic experience, for no one.

The goal should be, if possible (and I believe it is, easily), to let the two styles play and enjoy the game to relive their classic experience. Personally, I hope to achieve my epic one of these days, just as I had hoped to hit 60 on a Necromancer finally (something I did not achieve in classic, as I was too young to have the focus on the game). But at the same time, if to relive and achieve what I couldn't back then, I'd like to earn my epic through the means that I would have back then, through cooperative, more friendly raiding. Otherwise, I am doing something that isn't classic to me, in exchange for achieving something I always wanted to, so it isn't an inherently classic experience.

I hope that helped to articulate the counter-argument.

[Galelor]

All im saying, if your a casual gamer, why do u care if you have best in slot item, those 6 hours your on a month, go get planar armor, relatively high drop rate and great just to have something on....if the devs spoon fed you with all the best gear, what would be the point of this game if we all had epics and vp gear? its like the hardcore gymaholics, if working out 1 day a month gave us ridiculously good looking bodies, what's the point of putting many hours in? people would give up on the dumb game and just wait for next expansion, its the competition and rarity of items that drive us to keep playing

Spawn Competition: The way you are using this term really sounds like what you are indicating is that you believe one group of people shouldn't get all the mobs all the time because it will cause this group to gear up to quickly and then burn out. (I haven't seen one person anywhere in this whole argument say they want every single spawn of every mob. Maybe everyone does, but it is obvious that it isn't going to happen no matter what the agreement was...) The more raid mobs get spread across many guilds on the server, the less likely there will be quick burn out.

Item Rarity: You also indicated that messing with item rarity could cause people to burn out too quickly. I pose the idea that p99 already messed with item rarity because Kunark has been active many times longer than it was on live, users already know the most efficient ways to farm items, there are many many times more raiders on p99 than were on live, etc.

How all this meshes together in terms of giving a classic experience, I don't know. I do know that following your logic when looking at the server before the recent changes, if any group was going to burn out from getting best in slot too quickly, it was the TMO/IB/FE types who get most of the mobs that drop best in slot gear.

PS - I would like to also add that your analogy about working out is pretty poor. Everyone likes to look good, but working out is really about health. One might argue that natural selection has pushed humans into finding beauty in mates who are healthy looking (or thin.) Working out one time a month, if you are thin, may keep you thin, but it wont keep you healthy. It is proven that the heart and lungs need rigorous activity to achieve that goal. So, you may fool potential mates into sleeping with you because you are thin and look health, but because you don't have endurance to perform well during coitus, you will ultimately be rejected as a sub prime mate. Fun tip of the day - Get exercise even if you are thin; you will get more sex. o_0

[Raavak]

Fun tip of the day - Get exercise even if you are thin; you will get more sex. o_0

[chickmagnet]

Yes, that's what makes this game so great, imagine raiding planes of hate with your friends, finishing up on that last piece of rune etched gear and Innoruuk spawns, yall have the numbers....time to make that move and to see if you can kill. Unfortunately, there are 1500 other people who share this dream. So to prevent 1500 players from chilling in hate all day, we designate a tracker to hold down the spot while you and all your guildies/friends go on enjoying the game. Here's the dilemma, there are roughly 5 trackers up there at any given day during his window, I'm guessing you nor your friends are 1 of those? If they spawned Inny 10 times a week, would it matter? Would that change the odds in your favor? Point simply is this, if your not up there competing or tracking, why bother venting? This forum should be from those who actually have spent hours up their and were trained out....if that's the case, the devs have fixed that with their training policy

[chickmagnet]

Every guild wants all the mobs, just few of them are willing to compete for them. Mage epics still seem pretty rare...Classic experience? your playing a game from 99, how much more classic do you want? Clinton is not running for a third term, and last I checked we weren't using vent/teamspeak back then either or batphones. I'm also guessing your not getting your youth back....this server simulates a game from 99 and would like it to stay as classic as possible, but there are a few things that remain out of their control, guilds have realized that the dkp system works, so if im going to rack up a better shot tracking a mob to get my epic, well im going to rent a few movies/order some pizza and I have a date with my game.......As far as working out, depends on your age, I do it Anaerobically, which is not healthy but very beneficial to my testosterone, they make great vasodilators you can buy to keep endurance peaking....aerobic workouts are horrible for testosterone but great for that water cooler polo and talking about how much you work out

[Arteker]

@nilbog
Looks pretty euro friendly to me :D

AS euro raider yes , repops where kinda veryyyyyyy nice for us . i lost the amount of usa based tim guilds we `pissed off back in the day :p

[LethClaypool]

I'm a bit amped for this. Maybe I'll see myself finishing my epic finally since I'm on the edge of 46.

[Uteunayr]

Every guild wants all the mobs, just few of them are willing to compete for them. Mage epics still seem pretty rare...Classic experience? your playing a game from 99, how much more classic do you want? Clinton is not running for a third term, and last I checked we weren't using vent/teamspeak back then either or batphones. I'm also guessing your not getting your youth back....this server simulates a game from 99 and would like it to stay as classic as possible, but there are a few things that remain out of their control, guilds have realized that the dkp system works, so if im going to rack up a better shot tracking a mob to get my epic, well im going to rent a few movies/order some pizza and I have a date with my game.......As far as working out, depends on your age, I do it Anaerobically, which is not healthy but very beneficial to my testosterone, they make great vasodilators you can buy to keep endurance peaking....aerobic workouts are horrible for testosterone but great for that water cooler polo and talking about how much you work out

Classic isn't defined by one thing, and one thing alone. EverQuest Classic on some servers were defined by heavy competition, which is fine. EverQuest Classic was also defined by cooperation and more friendly raiding, which is fine. Neither of these has any right over the other, or any greater ownership to being "Classic", because the ways different servers developed brought about these different atmospheres entirely. Surely, P1999 has developed as a more hardcore environment, which is also fine, but it leaves out those that want to relive that more friendly environment. And what more is P1999 for than to let people relive the glory days of what may just be, still to date, the best MMORPG (SWG comes close for innovation) created? The issue isn't as black and white as it seems you're making it out to be.

[DrKvothe]

There are people who play way more than they should who don't find alt parking and racing in order to kill one out of 10 raid targets to be fun. These people are 'casual' raiders, but dedicated. Likewise, I'm sure TMO has people who don't make it to many raids, who don't answer their batphones often, but when they do they love the FFA/FTE race. They're hardcore raiders but not dedicated.

Epic raid drops and top end gear will go to dedicated players 95+ times out of 100, regardless if the raid is 'casual' or 'hardcore'. Because guilds don't hand off gear to anyone else.

[Spitty]

As far as working out, depends on your age, I do it Anaerobically, which is not healthy but very beneficial to my testosterone, they make great vasodilators you can buy to keep endurance peaking....aerobic workouts are horrible for testosterone but great for that water cooler polo and talking about how much you work out

Is this what you tell the various women that are magnetically attracted to your blooming personality?

I'm sure you explain to them that you're only good for about two minutes before you can't go any longer for fear of that annoying water-polo aerobic activity kicking in, right?

[chickmagnet]

its a numbers game for me, what do I care if they get off? besides if im there all day, I might get caught when her boyfriend is done ranting on forumquest

[Spitty]

So, you troll for loose, cheating whores that are stupid enough to fall for your "endurance peaking" bullshit. Classy.

Interesting parallel between this and the degenerate tactics people have been using to claim raid dominance on this server. There are plenty of people around that could stoop to such a low level and rake in the pixels/women; we simply have some kind of, I don't know, integrity, that prevents us from doing so.

Also, I don't like dick warts and having to come up with an explanation for why I'm a two-pump chump (it's the anaerobic workout, bitches...I swear it's good for testosterone or whatever).

[Nune]

Thought one of the rules was not to be camped out at raids for pops/simulated repops?

Yet massive amounts of T1 guilds were porting and evacing to pop sites when the server was on its way down? Or is the newest loophole to log out AROUND THE CORNER from a "pop" site so you aren't breaking the rules?

[DrKvothe]

Pretty much, Nune. Now it's a race to see who can get the first mage to spawn from where-ever the line is. If you actually like playing your characters, and you have to come in from out of zone, you're probably SoL.

Still, who cares? Casuals are, or will soon be, satisfied, so now I suspect it's up to FE/TMO to fix their own stuff if it's not working as intended.

[Sinestria]

Can't wait to see the first non-training VP competition! What are the chances there will be a guild suspension on the first repop?

[chickmagnet]

sounds like a pretty valid reason to me spitty, but you can find other ways to explain it if you like....just wear a condom, practice safe sex so those warts ya got don't spread around...but this isn't RnF, and im not a counselor....maybe they have an antibiotic that might help ya out :)

[Derubael]

The way I see it is this:

Hardcores wanted to be able to FFA FTE on targets
They would prefer no changes, and no restrictions on who engages targets.

Casuals wanted to be able to casually raid and experience content on the server.
They wanted 50% of all the targets to go to guilds who aren't interested in the (admittedly brutal) amount of competition on this server.

We give casual guilds 2 full repops to themselves. If you assume 7 day targets spawn 4 times a month, 2 repops is 50% on all mobs. Granted, Trakanon spawns on a shorter cycle, as well as a couple other mobs, so those will be a lower percentage. All of the regularly spawned Naggy and Vox kills will be casual only. We also throw in a third or sometimes even fourth "FFA respawn", where casuals and hardcore alike will get plenty of targets.

We let the hardcore guilds keep their FFA spawns (which, are accessible to the entire server, not just hardcore guilds). In addition, we attempt to lower the barrier of entry on these spawns (no alt armies parked at targets, extremely strict and unforgiving training rules, and a likely reduction in variance) so that casual guilds who choose to compete are not at such an overwhelming disadvantage.

I don't see how this can be viewed as anything but a win for all sides.

[Raavak]

Stay creatine loaded to maintain your endurance.

[DrKvothe]

The way I see it is this:

Hardcores wanted to be able to FFA FTE on targets
They would prefer no changes, and no restrictions on who engages targets.

Casuals wanted to be able to casually raid and experience content on the server.
They wanted 50% of all the targets to go to guilds who aren't interested in the (admittedly brutal) amount of competition on this server.

We give casual guilds 2 full repops to themselves. If you assume 7 day targets spawn 4 times a month, 2 repops is 50% on all mobs. Granted, Trakanon spawns on a shorter cycle, as well as a couple other mobs, so those will be a lower percentage. All of the regularly spawned Naggy and Vox kills will be casual only. We also throw in a third or sometimes even fourth "FFA respawn", where casuals and hardcore alike will get plenty of targets.

We let the hardcore guilds keep their FFA spawns (which, are accessible to the entire server, not just hardcore guilds). In addition, we attempt to lower the barrier of entry on these spawns (no alt armies parked at targets, extremely strict and unforgiving training rules, and a likely reduction in variance) so that casual guilds who choose to compete are not at such an overwhelming disadvantage.

I don't see how this can be viewed as anything but a win for all sides.

It is a win for all sides, which is remarkable because I don't think anybody thought that TMO could come out of this with more loot. In an argument for how to split the pie, you just showed up with another pie. We all like pie.

Casual proposals called for a 1:2 split (since VP is hardcore only) between 7 guilds with long lines for loot and 2 guilds with shorter lines for loot (counted by # of players). You managed to find a universally acceptable solution without giving casuals their 3rd of the pie.

[Thulack]

Have fun children

[texwilly]

My classic experience reminds me that at all times during the progression of Everquest (through the 78564 expansions), end-game content was restricted to the devout. I always knew and understood that I was to someday cap my character, meet the minimum application requirements for a "Raid" guild, apply, suffer through the 6 weeks or worse app period, be voted on for membership, and then and only then have a chance (with continued devotion) at end-game raid loot.

I'm still fairly new to p99 but have read into the history pretty thoroughly. I cannot believe that the "casuals", self proclaimed even, are bitching about and being awarded for being less than elite. The problem, as most of us know, has nothing to do with TMO/IB/FE raid tactics. It has everything to do with having very little end-game content. That is why Verant was making millions, and couldn't develop expansions fast enough for a first-ever persistent MMO. "Casuals" will ALWAYS exist in every game, this is like handing out trophies to the losers. Get better if you want it.

This bowel movement would have passed on it's own (Velious), but it seems a little mineral oil and bad chinese (simulated repops) will ease the pressure until then. Winter is coming...

-Apeg Inyurazz (56 Troll SHM)

[YendorLootmonkey]

I don't see how this can be viewed as anything but a win for all sides.

Because THIS was the best plan, and you all failed to follow through :(

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133806

[Ciroco]

My classic experience reminds me that at all times during the progression of Everquest (through the 78564 expansions), end-game content was restricted to the devout. I always knew and understood that I was to someday cap my character, meet the minimum application requirements for a "Raid" guild, apply, suffer through the 6 weeks or worse app period, be voted on for membership, and then and only then have a chance (with continued devotion) at end-game raid loot.

I'm still fairly new to p99 but have read into the history pretty thoroughly. I cannot believe that the "casuals", self proclaimed even, are bitching about and being awarded for being less than elite. The problem, as most of us know, has nothing to do with TMO/IB/FE raid tactics. It has everything to do with having very little end-game content. That is why Verant was making millions, and couldn't develop expansions fast enough for a first-ever persistent MMO. "Casuals" will ALWAYS exist in every game, this is like handing out trophies to the losers. Get better if you want it.

This bowel movement would have passed on it's own (Velious), but it seems a little mineral oil and bad chinese (simulated repops) will ease the pressure until then. Winter is coming...

-Apeg Inyurazz (56 Troll SHM)

Your classic experience was certainly different than mine then. Regardless, we can stop with the classic rhetoric, because the raid scene is not and will never be remotely classic. Lack of Velious is the main reason for this fiasco. I'm not sure why you felt the need to attack the "casuals"; some of them are just as powerful and dedicated as any guild I saw on classic. They just don't want to participate in what raiding has become here.

The long and short of it is that we all stand to benefit if we can manage to not screw this up, so please everyone, try to not screw this up.

[BigLe2e]

Because THIS was the best plan, and you all failed to follow through :(

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133806

Im gonna have to go ahead and put my vote in for this proposal. Any who object are confirmed not straight.

[Yapas]

The Server Wide Suspension will end Monday at 6pm EST


Unable to zone @ VP (POH/POF too I guess ?) ! Best 2014 troll thread !

[Kagatob]

More FTE pushing and the exact opposite of 'force in zone' rules being enforced.

Have fun, don't say I didn't tell you so. :rolleyes:

[Nirgon]

More FTE pushing and the exact opposite of 'force in zone' rules being enforced.

Have fun, don't say I didn't tell you so. :rolleyes:

You too

http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/kygl.com/files/2012/06/Beer-Belly.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fN71LIYAbnE/UO-xb2xNKbI/AAAAAAAAAcM/dszzTwWzq34/s640/madobe-nanami-%281366-768%29.jpg

[Kagatob]

A fat dude and a Microsoft mascot.

I don't get it.

[Kagatob]

That is a nice pic of Madabe though. /snip

[radditsu]

Creepily suggestive.

[snwbrdr642]

I don't see how this can be viewed as anything but a win for all sides.

me either

[Babayaaga]

New raid targets confirmed!

There are currently 84 players camping the WC spires, and the bricks are still at 100%... after 3 hours supporting a massive load of trolls, ogres and average sized pixels!

Damn it has a lot of HPs!

[bktroost]

Any word on why all the dragons suddenly depoped and have been gone for an hour and a half or so? Looking good, bed, eh?

[Hitpoint]

We can't zone into VP either =(

[Crom]

it's 02:00 in the morning here was realy hopeing this would go smooth..
why did they even bring the zones down ?