Awesome article on Instance Raiding

[JerSar]

This is one epic read,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instance_dungeon

i don't endorse turning P99 into 'instanced raiding'. i just thought this was very cool to read.

Here's another:

There are more subtle, and negative effects to instancing, that have nothing to do with competition and racing for mobs.

The part about instancing in this article is pretty good:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/2157/soapbox_why_virtual_worlds_are_.php

While I don't agree with everything he's saying, I think he's spot on about instancing.

[Autotune]

This is one epic read,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instance_dungeon

i don't endorse turning P99 into 'instanced raiding'. i just thought this was very cool to read.

That's good, because Rogean ripped out all of the code for instances on p99.

[JerSar]

That's good, because Rogean ripped out all of the code for instances on p99.

Well that's good.

I was thinking to myself today "I wonder why EverQuest started doing instances?" and had a theory that it might be because nerd rage and too many player complications, such as what we're kind of seeing here on P99.

Seems i might have thought right.

[Swish]

LDON only felt like half an expansion but I loved it. They just needed to make better rewards in line with what was already available.

[Razdeline]

That's good, because Rogean ripped out all of the code for instances on p99.

^ and lol'd

[Galelor]

LDON only felt like half an expansion but I loved it. They just needed to make better rewards in line with what was already available.

I actually enjoyed LDoN as well. I did go back way over tiered and farm an AC aug from one of the raid instances for my pally ;)

[Llodd]

I actually enjoyed LDoN as well. I did go back way over tiered and farm an AC aug from one of the raid instances for my pally ;)

Yeah except the cut and paste dungeons it was good. LAzy designers

[radditsu]

LDON only felt like half an expansion but I loved it. They just needed to make better rewards in line with what was already available.

Had the best arm slots until elemental/after GOD

Type 7 hp augments and ac augments made tons of stuff easier.

[Rhambuk]

I prefer instances, my first experience with them was ldon and it was awesome to have a zone to yourself, no worries about someone coming in and ksing or training you can take your time.

I'm just not a competitive person, if someone wants something more than me take it im not gonna stress and fight over something trivial. With instances it was about the ENVIRONTMENT which is PVE....

but it was made to be a challenge, classic eq dungeons aren't really a challenge without other people in the zone. it wouldn't work here.

(edit(

Augments were really the decline of equipment in eq, you needed to have them in every slot etc etc etc, that's when I feel gear became ridiculous with items having +20stats resists, 100hp mana, haste, ft. like 1 piece of gear equals your entire suit in p99 and then some.

[Thulack]

Raiding on live is so much more enjoyable. Everyone is able to raid whatever they are capable of and everyone gets currency every raid to spend on gear. Win/Win in my eyes.

[Rhambuk]

Raiding on live is so much more enjoyable. Everyone is able to raid whatever they are capable of and everyone gets currency every raid to spend on gear. Win/Win in my eyes.

apparently its the worst thing ever because theres no cutthroat competition and shitting in socks.


I'll never understand some people

[cyryllis]

Go play live then. Many of us came to play classic because no instances and the fact that real life time of day matters...unlike all other mmo

[Rhambuk]

Go play live then. Many of us came to play classic because no instances and the fact that real life time of day matters...unlike all other mmo

this is nothing like classic, I wouldn't mind" competition" without variance, but the way it is no is nothing even remotely close to live classic.

also Coach mcgurk is one of my favorite characters of all time, 'I got the rubber legs"

[Thulack]

this is nothing like classic, I wouldn't mind" competition" without variance, but the way it is no is nothing even remotely close to live classic.

also Coach mcgurk is one of my favorite characters of all time, 'I got the rubber legs"

I played on a server that had rotations up until instancing. The "players" agreed to these rotation and abided by them for YEARS. That is classic to me. I'm sorry some of you never got to enjoy that EQ was really about which was the community and having a good time. Just sucks for the people like me who grew up with this type of EQ.

[Rhambuk]

I played on a server that had rotations up until instancing. The "players" agreed to these rotation and abided by them for YEARS. That is classic to me. I'm sorry some of you never got to enjoy that EQ was really about which was the community and having a good time. Just sucks for the people like me who grew up with this type of EQ.

yeah we didn't have a rotation, I played in a euro guild and thankfully there was only one other euro guild so competition was fun at times, but like I said it was nothing like it is here. Not even close.

Would've preferred a rotation system though, such a headache dealing with some of these people...

[Babayaaga]

And yet thousands of players have invested into an environment that emulates a pre-instance MMO gameplay. Instancing solved problems like we are experiencing here with seemingly success and elegance, but it removed one key element that is pumping adrenoline on P99.

I don't believe the true solution to this issue has been invented yet. Most modern game developers since the inception of instancing have adopted it into their games. It is precisely this reason that has created a demand for EMU games like Everquest. Those who experienced it once want to experience it again.

Yet, when there isn't enough content to meet demand, something happens which we are uniquely experiencing to a point of critical mass on P99. Terrible things happen which frustrate both the hosts and the player base to a point where nobody can conclude an agreement that makes sense to all.

Yes, we've seen proposals. Not one has made everyone happy. They all are going to require micromanagement to a point where not a single proposal will play out realistically because they don't factor in change and the ingenuity of the human brain. People will think outside the box and find new ways to "get around" any solution that comes into play. Some suggestions have already been made (establishing sister guilds in different tiers, etc.).

The raw fact remains... there needs to be enough content to satisfy demand (which is a constantly changing variable). Outside of instancing and creating parallel environments to meet population demands... what is there?

[Rhambuk]

And yet thousands of players have invested into an environment that emulates a pre-instance MMO gameplay.

Too bad there weren't a few thousand more.

instead we see Millions Paying for instances on wow.

where we have maybe 2k playing here on a free system.

just saying it seems people prefer instances in general.

[Babayaaga]

Too bad there weren't a few thousand more.

instead we see Millions Paying for instances on wow.

where we have maybe 2k playing here on a free system.

just saying it seems people prefer instances in general.

I don't think the vast majority of the gaming world knows P99 exists, and live Everquest is a mere shadow of what it once was.

[Rhambuk]

I don't think the vast majority of the gaming world knows P99 exists, and live Everquest is a mere shadow of what it once was.

I wouldn't even call it everquest

[whitebandit]

I don't think the vast majority of the gaming world knows P99 exists, and live Everquest is a mere shadow of what it once was.

http://youtu.be/vjd74gzMAKU?t=1m46s

[Iumuno]

There are more subtle, and negative effects to instancing, that have nothing to do with competition and racing for mobs.

The part about instancing in this article is pretty good:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/2157/soapbox_why_virtual_worlds_are_.php

While I don't agree with everything he's saying, I think he's spot on about instancing.

[gloine36]

Instancing would solve quite a few of the problems we see now. Used properly, it will work out well. As for the classic/not classic argument who cares? Waiting three plus years for Velious isn't classic and that's a major problem in itself. We've played the classic game to death now. It is revealing its very serious limitations.

[Galelor]

Instead of instanced zones, you could use a hail x non-killable npc to spawn raid mobs and have lockout timers. Shit show problems on p99 gone...

Honestly, I really do think instancing made EQ raiding awesome and accessible to the masses. The reason EQ was on the decline by the time instancing came about was the invention of WoW and the EQ expansion GoD (which was horrible.)

[whitebandit]

instancing would ruin what this server is... i really dont understand the point of this.

instancing already exists in an EQ setting, on most of the other Emulated servers AND on live... (hint.. its why most of us are here)

EQ2 ALSO has a metric shit ton of instancing.. if you are interested in that kind of thing

[Galelor]

instancing would ruin what this server is... i really dont understand the point of this.

instancing already exists in an EQ setting, on most of the other Emulated servers AND on live... (hint.. its why most of us are here)

EQ2 ALSO has a metric shit ton of instancing.. if you are interested in that kind of thing

I would interject that I highly doubt most people are here just because there is no instancing. (Nor that it is even a major part of why people are here.)

[JerSar]

instancing would ruin what this server is... i really dont understand the point of this.

instancing already exists in an EQ setting, on most of the other Emulated servers AND on live... (hint.. its why most of us are here)

EQ2 ALSO has a metric shit ton of instancing.. if you are interested in that kind of thing

I disagree that most people are here because of no instances, I think that instancing hinders community, and I think that people are here for many things, including community (as a large factor).

and the point of this was to read it, like I said in the OP. it's interesting.

[whitebandit]

I disagree that most people are here because of no instances, I think that instancing hinders community, and I think that people are here for many things, including community (as a large factor).

and the point of this was to read it, like I said in the OP. it's interesting.

Sure, im not saying the article is uninteresting, its just that there seems to be alot of people here calling for instancing to be implemented, yet this would go against what the server is (despite the already slight modifications made to "classic") -- As you put so well, community is what Everquest was all about and instancing does destroy this... i will say in my personal opinion, instancing was the downfall of what Everquest was...

I liked the instancing portion on the previously linked " http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/2157/soapbox_why_virtual_worlds_are_.php " article

[myriverse]

instancing would ruin what this server is... i really dont understand the point of this.

instancing already exists in an EQ setting, on most of the other Emulated servers AND on live... (hint.. its why most of us are here)

EQ2 ALSO has a metric shit ton of instancing.. if you are interested in that kind of thing
Instancing has fuck all to do with why I'm here, and I probably wouldn't mind at all if P99 had it. I tend to think instancing improved EQ.

[JerSar]

Sure, im not saying the article is uninteresting, its just that there seems to be alot of people here calling for instancing to be implemented, yet this would go against what the server is (despite the already slight modifications made to "classic") -- As you put so well, community is what Everquest was all about and instancing does destroy this... i will say in my personal opinion, instancing was the downfall of what Everquest was...

I liked the instancing portion on the previously linked " http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/2157/soapbox_why_virtual_worlds_are_.php " article

I liked it too, and I agree that community is what EverQuest is about (for me) and instancing raid targets does hinder this a little bit, but if you only instance big ticket raid targets, it's no different than a server rotation (except that it inflates the amount of loot coming off a monster).

It's not classic, but variance and other aspects of this are not classic either, not that I support instancing, I just think that the classic nature of P99 is "Classic until it breaks because we have the internet now" ... rather than big ass binders full of maps and quests (Like I did).

What I mean is that P99 makes classic good, it's just that people's ability and knowledge of the game make min/maxing and being 'super efficient' very easy, something theat took a great feat back in those days.

[whitebandit]

I liked it too, and I agree that community is what EverQuest is about (for me) and instancing raid targets does hinder this a little bit, but if you only instance big ticket raid targets, it's no different than a server rotation (except that it inflates the amount of loot coming off a monster).

It's not classic, but variance and other aspects of this are not classic either, not that I support instancing, I just think that the classic nature of P99 is "Classic until it breaks because we have the internet now" ... rather than big ass binders full of maps and quests (Like I did).

What I mean is that P99 makes classic good, it's just that people's ability and knowledge of the game make min/maxing and being 'super efficient' very easy, something theat took a great feat back in those days.

This does make a lot of sense, I do also feel like... If all the loot/bosses were instanced (or spawn times were increased or loot was increased), it would essentially allow for EVERYONE to get EVERYTHING they want with minimal effort and time, which becomes boring. I think the whole "ill never be wearing BIS for every piece of gear" Is what keeps a good bulk of people playing and continually trying to become better and get better loot, that is the ones that arent all about just being THE BEST/schadenfreude, but in more of a Casual "collectors" stance.

[JerSar]

This does make a lot of sense, I do also feel like... If all the loot/bosses were instanced (or spawn times were increased or loot was increased), it would essentially allow for EVERYONE to get EVERYTHING they want with minimal effort and time, which becomes boring. I think the whole "ill never be wearing BIS for every piece of gear" Is what keeps a good bulk of people playing and continually trying to become better and get better loot, that is the ones that arent all about just being THE BEST/schadenfreude, but in more of a Casual "collectors" stance.

Yes,

Instancing is good to qualm the riots right now, but in the end all it does is make gear a grind rather than an experience. It makes players less unique because everyone has (or has equal chance to) any BIS items.

Instancing just makes people worse, because once a game sees instancing it sees less unique play, less interaction and less need to help out people become better because it's just 'on the other side of that there wizard's portal' rather than a 'engage as one, die as one'. The latter is WAY more fun than the former.

[Morgander]

this is nothing like classic, I wouldn't mind" competition" without variance, but the way it is no is nothing even remotely close to live classic.

also Coach mcgurk is one of my favorite characters of all time, 'I got the rubber legs"

If you want a more classic experience, we need to wipe the server and start over.

For too long did P1999 exist with tons of bugs and non-classic issues/mechanics that just never existed in the original client or on the original servers.

With bugs like invis single pulling and a slew of other issues where people had months or years to sell characters and accounts, and abuse bugs such as the recently noted one where individuals were flooding the economy with platinum that was ill begotten, it's helped to rot the experience in its entirety.

Now that so much has been fixed and with Velious potentially close, this would be the premier time for a wipe.

I've got a lot in stock on this server, with 2 epic chars, 2 60's, a 55 and a 54, fungi, CoF, and a slew of other top end items, but a wipe honestly wouldn't bother me that much.

[JerSar]

If you want a more classic experience, we need to wipe the server and start over.

For too long did P1999 exist with tons of bugs and non-classic issues/mechanics that just never existed in the original client or on the original servers.

With bugs like invis single pulling and a slew of other issues where people had months or years to sell characters and accounts, and abuse bugs such as the recently noted one where individuals were flooding the economy with platinum that was ill begotten, it's helped to rot the experience in its entirety.

Now that so much has been fixed and with Velious potentially close, this would be the premier time for a wipe.

I've got a lot in stock on this server, with 2 epic chars, 2 60's, a 55 and a 54, fungi, CoF, and a slew of other top end items, but a wipe honestly wouldn't bother me that much.

I just don't think that a wipe will ever enter into the minds of the server developers. It's a wishful idea, one that would solve a lot if we could somehow go back in time without upsetting potentially a lot of people.

[myriverse]

Yes,

Instancing is good to qualm the riots right now, but in the end all it does is make gear a grind rather than an experience. It makes players less unique because everyone has (or has equal chance to) any BIS items.

Instancing just makes people worse, because once a game sees instancing it sees less unique play, less interaction and less need to help out people become better because it's just 'on the other side of that there wizard's portal' rather than a 'engage as one, die as one'. The latter is WAY more fun than the former.
Gearing is already a grind, not an experience. The only difference is the rate of the grind.