A Plea for Sanity

[Kergan]

To my fellow R99ers,

I am writing this in the hope that we can have a civil and rational discussion on what is happening on the server we've also chosen to devote hours of our free time on. This will not be a short post, but my hope is that if you care about the future of R99 that you'll spend a few minutes of your day to hear me out.

There is a lot of animosity between the two main guilds of R99 right now, Red Dawn and Nihilum. As many of you know I am currently a tagged applicant to Nihilum but it is the honest truth I am doing everything I can to see both sides of this. I am speaking not as a member or representative of Nihilum but as a member of the R99 community.

Let me start by saying what I believe to be true about the institution of the PVP PNP on R99: the staff is concerned about the long term viability of this server. It is not an easy task to recruit a player base to an emu server for a 12 year old game, and even a more dire one to recruit them to a red server. Losing players for any reason is a very legitimate concern. It is also my belief that they feel the stranglehold Nihilum has had on R99 is a barrier for the sustainability of a long term healthy population. I also do not believe that the timing of the introduction of the PNP was coincidence, relative to the recent CC'ing episodes on Red Dawn (which were allowed by rule at the time).

But most importantly, I believe that no matter what rules are put in place and how they are enforced, none of it will mean a thing if the top guilds are not going to treat each other with basic respect and decency. If the conditions of victory in this battle are going to be massive account banning and players quitting in frustration it is not a victory for the server.

I believe there have been mistakes and errors on both sides. Nihilum feels like they are being treated unfairly by staff and being made an example of. Red Dawn feels like Nihilum is not treating them with respect and relishes the opportunity to make their life hell. In a lot of ways, I think, both sides have a fair argument.

What I see right now is a group on one side trying to get away with whatever they can to keep down their opponent, and people on the other side trying to do whatever they can to rise up. Unfortunately, we are not staying within the confines and means of the game mechanics. People are losing hundreds of hours of work on characters to bans and suspensions on BOTH sides. People are more concerned with getting fraps going in preparation for PVP then making sure they have buffs up.

What I am asking for is civil discourse between the leadership of Azrael, Red Dawn and Nihilum. We're sitting on a time bomb that has been ticking for years. People have battled each other for so long they are very much struggling to get past it. It will not be easy but I think if you guys could get together for an hour privately and come up with a means in which we can treat each other as human beings with huge amounts of time invested in our characters it would be beneficial to everyone. Come in with open minds, forgive the past and plan the future of this server. We can have some truly epic and great battles, especially with new content and a lot of returning players just around the corner with Velious.

Nizzar, Heartbrand, Lite...how 'bout it? Can we try to put an end to the lawyering, forumquesting and venom in ooc?

[Stasis01]

A group of Nihilum killed me and a cleric earlier in KC, the cleric was allowed to loot but not res me, as they said that was against the rules. This was Renian who was being played by Nizzar mind you.

Nihilum just doesn't get it, act like assholes, don't follow the rules and that's how it's been here since the beginning.

Maybe the GM's are starting to wake up.

[Quiet]

Sounds like Nizzar avoiding suspension. Probably should have any account associated with his suspended as well.

Quiet - Ranger

[Stasis01]

Act decent/stop playing the box like you have been with the intention to grief any competition from playing.

Lying like it's any other way is a joke.

[vouss]

or you can just follow the rules

[Nizzarr]

A group of Nihilum killed me and a cleric earlier in KC, the cleric was allowed to loot but not res me, as they said that was against the rules. This was Renian who was being played by Nizzar mind you.

Nihilum just doesn't get it, act like assholes, don't follow the rules and that's how it's been here since the beginning.

Maybe the GM's are starting to wake up.

so? you missed the pvp last night? ooc/shouts were all about spam of LNS GET OUT DONT BUFF DONT REZ.

Did I miss something? were not playing with the same rules now?

[Nizzarr]

Sounds like Nizzar avoiding suspension. Probably should have any account associated with his suspended as well.

Quiet - Ranger

better petition some more about this

[Elderan]

A group of Nihilum killed me and a cleric earlier in KC, the cleric was allowed to loot but not res me, as they said that was against the rules. This was Renian who was being played by Nizzar mind you.

Nihilum just doesn't get it, act like assholes, don't follow the rules and that's how it's been here since the beginning.

Maybe the GM's are starting to wake up.

The cleric was allowed to get his corpse but not yours..

The rules say he must loot then scoot. Not loot then go get your corpse ress it and then scoot.

An example... Red Dawn killed me and Nothxu during that Nagafen fight. I zoned for LNS, Nothxu got his corpse which was at the zoneline and was about to LNS but I asked him to drag my corpse to zone since I didn't have levitate. He went to the ledge where he was attacked by Red Dawn and they were screaming at him that he was not allowed to drag my corpse even though we were both on LNS.

Since then we have followed the rule in that manner. This is one of the situations were we need clarifications on the rule.

Nihilum will stick to whatever the GMs say the rule is, but we just don't know right now the rule in this situation.

[HippoNipple]

That answers your own question Kergan, you are following a scum lord with the temper and composure of a small child.

[JayN]

That answers your own question Kergan, you are following a scum lord with the temper and composure of a small child.

your first problem was playing with all the sociopaths on Red99 brosef

[HippoNipple]

The cleric was allowed to get his corpse but not yours..

The rules say he must loot then scoot. Not loot then go get your corpse ress it and then scoot.

An example... Red Dawn killed me and Nothxu during that Nagafen fight. I zoned for LNS, Nothxu got his corpse which was at the zoneline and was about to LNS but I asked him to drag my corpse to zone since I didn't have levitate. He went to the ledge where he was attacked by Red Dawn and they were screaming at him that he was not allowed to drag my corpse even though we were both on LNS.

Since then we have followed the rule in that manner. This is one of the situations were we need clarifications on the rule.

Nihilum will stick to whatever the GMs say the rule is, but we just don't know right now the rule in this situation.

Another example of how to act as a guild leader, and should be leader on the server, is when HB gave rezzes to the opposing guild. It is the difference between walking that thin line to grief as much as you can within the rules (which are obviously crossed enough to get suspended twice) and trying to better the community/server.

[Kergan]

I dunno man, first post was Stasis going on the immediate offensive and not addressing a single thing I said in my post. The rest is just people responding to it.

I did my best, oh well.

[Nizzarr]

Like when heartbrand steals guildbanks, t-staves, strips account, manastones and what not?

great guild leader

[Kergan]

What has happened in this thread is exactly what is happening in game. An escalating arms race of rule lawyering that ultimately will result in people worrying more about who gets banned then who won the actual encounter.

Like I said, I tried.

[Lawler]

Like when heartbrand steals guildbanks, t-staves, strips account, manastones and what not?

great guild leader

Didn't you do the same things to Beovvulf? Yeah...

[JayN]

Soo. By Sociopath, do you mean, people like you??











Yeah, you're not miserable IRL or anything...
Keep showing your asses Red Dawn

http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Jimmies-Maximum-Over-Rustled-Meme-Gif.gif

keep your rants in flames in RnF; Beta'd hater

kthx

[Stasis01]

What has happened in this thread is exactly what is happening in game. An escalating arms race of rule lawyering that ultimately will result in people worrying more about who gets banned then who won the actual encounter.

Like I said, I tried.

All that's happening is Nihilum is losing their shit that they can't just do whatever they want in-game with their massive advantage?

[Stasis01]

If you're actually new and think this is something new it isn't, this is when Nihilum would start corpse camping RD all day and night - every day to make them quit.

Instead they are doing greasey shit like camping Seb and forcing everyone to eat one death CRing from a Trak wipe, doing shit like to me in KC let my cleric LNS but don't let him res me before leaving etc.

Massive shit talking/raging over rules just typical bullshit, stay strong GM's - fuck these guys man.

[Clark]

your first problem was playing with all the sociopaths on Red99 brosef

lol

[Nizzarr]

If you're actually new and think this is something new it isn't, this is when Nihilum would start corpse camping RD all day and night - every day to make them quit.

Instead they are doing greasey shit like camping Seb and forcing everyone to eat one death CRing from a Trak wipe, doing shit like to me in KC let my cleric LNS but don't let him res me before leaving etc.

Massive shit talking/raging over rules just typical bullshit, stay strong GM's - fuck these guys man.

strawman argument much? when did we corpse camp people?

[Stasis01]

The cleric was allowed to get his corpse but not yours..

The rules say he must loot then scoot. Not loot then go get your corpse ress it and then scoot.

An example... Red Dawn killed me and Nothxu during that Nagafen fight. I zoned for LNS, Nothxu got his corpse which was at the zoneline and was about to LNS but I asked him to drag my corpse to zone since I didn't have levitate. He went to the ledge where he was attacked by Red Dawn and they were screaming at him that he was not allowed to drag my corpse even though we were both on LNS.

Since then we have followed the rule in that manner. This is one of the situations were we need clarifications on the rule.

Nihilum will stick to whatever the GMs say the rule is, but we just don't know right now the rule in this situation.

I don't know which fight you were at, but we let people drag/CR out of SOLB after that fight, can't think of one person killed naked dragging.

[runlvlzero]

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[Nizzarr]

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[Stasis01]

strawman argument much? when did we corpse camp people?

Today you assembled Sebilis groups to go kill the people CRing from a Trak wipe yesterday 1 YT each, and then talked massive shit to them/flexed on them as a form of punishment I guess for PNP?

I don't know, made everyone eat 1 death, killed the corpse summoner I saw a second time because he didn't scoot fast enough - so much anger/toxic nerd rage threatening to kill people, typical bullshit.

[Stasis01]

I am just glad you weren't able to do what you normally do, which is sit on them for a few days straight because you are way too fucking obsessed about this game.

[Elderan]

I don't know which fight you were at, but we let people drag/CR out of SOLB after that fight, can't think of one person killed naked dragging.


It happened..

If the GMs want to say this rule is otherwise then we will follow that way.

[Elderan]

I am just glad you weren't able to do what you normally do, which is sit on them for a few days straight because you are way too fucking obsessed about this game.

You are thinking of Azrael...

[Stasis01]

Elderan, if there was no PNP would Nihilum's strategy be to follow Red Dawn raids and corpse camp them into quitting?

Answer me that honestly and I'll start taking you seriously.

As for your question, if you are LNSing what does it matter.

[Colgate]

Like when heartbrand steals guildbanks, t-staves, strips account, manastones and what not?

great guild leader

would like to point this post out, and follow it up with proof that nizzar stripped Beovvulf's blue server account, with proof from Ambrotos

Damn, can you do the same for Angome? lost dragon hero bracer, mrylokar's breastplate, bcg, fungi tunic, gauntlets of fiery might and about 400k pp! It all suddenly ended up on a TMO bank/selling alt, but havent heard of who did the deed!

I just thought it would add to the discussion knowing TMO probably took everything off my rogue back then. Zeelot was nurturing quite the relationship with his "officer" Finalzodiacx in TMO. He(zeelot) even had access to the mules my gear was on not even 24 hours after I've been stripped.

No one ever knew why FZ was an officer in TMO either, hes still selling raid loot for them though.

Ambrotos can you do it for Beovvulf blue server? Tstaff + Fungi + and translate it to Red names plz.

can you send those to me? I talk to him every few days ill have him follow it up

http://i.imgur.com/Fag8cdn.jpg

I hate thieves.


Trade Details
Trade
ID: 487334
Perspective: Beovvulf
Associate: Angome
Server: Live
Zone: overthere
Date: 2013-01-26 19:50:37
Gave
[14709] Necklace of Superiority (1)
[2735] Fungus Covered Scale Tunic (1)
[8332] Shuriken of the Tranquil (15)
[10404] A Glowing Black Stone (1)
[6639] Tranquil Staff (1)
[11976] Wurm Scale Coat (1)
[4394] Imbued Granite Spauldors (1)
39168 Platinum
And 2 tinkerbags 10 seconds later.

http://i.imgur.com/ePgdhTq.png

tl;dr nizzar is a hypocritical scumlord

[Nizzarr]

Elderan, if there was no PNP would Nihilum's strategy be to follow Red Dawn raids and corpse camp them into quitting?

Answer me that honestly and I'll start taking you seriously.

As for your question, if you are LNSing what does it matter.

we ever camped people into quitting? why would we start now?

[heartbrand]

Couple things:

1) I've defended myself 100x on these forums from bs accusations. There was never a red dawn 1.0 guildbank, and how could there be we didn't kill a single mob. Everything else is hyperbole and what not in a desperate attempt to somehow discredit me and therefore my guild. You had no issue tagging me for over a year and giving me every item in the game making me the best geared char on the server with these accusations but now they are legit? Ok .

2) I told everyone to allow you guys to drag, however, during this spectre and tune continued to pvp us and basically would not concede the fight. We can't let you drag if you're going to continue the fight simultaneously. Nonetheless I rezzed your players without even being asked.

3) every conversation I've tried to have with nizzar or elderan turns into them just wanting to talk down to me and threaten / strong arm me "or else".

I have no issue having reasonable discourse with other reasonable human beings. But look at the ooc and posts by nizzar and elderan. It's propaganda smear campaigns 24:7. They don't care about the health of the server and how red dawn has revitalized the pop, they only care about "winning," and that's a shame.

Despite that I would still engage in reasonable discourse. The red dawn charter is simple. We don't attack nakeds, we allow lns, you can take your time to get your corpse and your friends corpse and we might even help you as long as it is because you have conceded the pvp engagement.

As far as a lot of the rhetoric on both sides, I don't support over the top trash talk, but that's the interwebs for you.

[Stasis01]

we ever camped people into quitting? why would we start now?

Are you serious?

[Elderan]

Despite that I would still engage in reasonable discourse. The red dawn charter is simple. We don't attack nakeds, we allow lns, you can take your time to get your corpse and your friends corpse and we might even help you as long as it is because you have conceded the pvp engagement.

As far as a lot of the rhetoric on both sides, I don't support over the top trash talk, but that's the interwebs for you.

Will you support clarifying some of the LNS rules for certain situations?

[heartbrand]

The only adjustments needed IMO is the ability to allow your slain comrades to participate in the pve after you win the fight. I also think being forced to scoot if the victor does not keep a presence in the zone needs to be changed.

[Koota]

I was born and raised on Rallos Zek, and decided to give this red box a shot. I'm on day 3, but after reading OOC and the constant back and forth - it's no fucking wonder this servers population is shit.

You guys are so fucking concerned with one upping one another, and trying to prove someone else wrong just to spite their face, you're all obnoxious as all fuck.

[Elderan]

The only adjustments needed IMO is the ability to allow your slain comrades to participate in the pve after you win the fight. I also think being forced to scoot if the victor does not keep a presence in the zone needs to be changed.

I would like some adjustments as well.

However we need some clarifications first. To my knowledge if you LNS from a zone and that person/guild who made you LNS is no longer in that zone then LNS time limit is invalid.

[Nizzarr]

Couple things:

1) I've defended myself 100x on these forums from bs accusations. There was never a red dawn 1.0 guildbank, and how could there be we didn't kill a single mob. Everything else is hyperbole and what not in a desperate attempt to somehow discredit me and therefore my guild. You had no issue tagging me for over a year and giving me every item in the game making me the best geared char on the server with these accusations but now they are legit? Ok .

2) I told everyone to allow you guys to drag, however, during this spectre and tune continued to pvp us and basically would not concede the fight. We can't let you drag if you're going to continue the fight simultaneously. Nonetheless I rezzed your players without even being asked.

3) every conversation I've tried to have with nizzar or elderan turns into them just wanting to talk down to me and threaten / strong arm me "or else".

I have no issue having reasonable discourse with other reasonable human beings. But look at the ooc and posts by nizzar and elderan. It's propaganda smear campaigns 24:7. They don't care about the health of the server and how red dawn has revitalized the pop, they only care about "winning," and that's a shame.

Despite that I would still engage in reasonable discourse. The red dawn charter is simple. We don't attack nakeds, we allow lns, you can take your time to get your corpse and your friends corpse and we might even help you as long as it is because you have conceded the pvp engagement.

As far as a lot of the rhetoric on both sides, I don't support over the top trash talk, but that's the interwebs for you.

isnt the bolded part against the rules? you cant stop us from lnsing right? why are you not letting them get their body in the middle of the pvp?

[Stasis01]

I was born and raised on Rallos Zek, and decided to give this red box a shot. I'm on day 3, but after reading OOC and the constant back and forth - it's no fucking wonder this servers population is shit.

You guys are so fucking concerned with one upping one another, and trying to prove someone else wrong just to spite their face, you're all obnoxious as all fuck.

This is the server trying to fight for a few rights from the fully geared VP crew, to allow for guilds to play and have fun and possibly some day contest without the ultra hardcore crowd (50-60 hrs a week, Tune probably is closer to 80-100) shitting all over them.

This is not one upping, this is trying to make this place playable, and they are fighting to be able to do what they want and keep it low populated to suit their own personal interests.

[Nizzarr]

Did you hear crying for 2 hours all day about us not allowing your cleric to rez you in kc?

make sure to ask for clarifications on that one

[Stasis01]

I don't understand what's complicated about it, me and my guild cleric died, he was going to res me and we'd both LNS. You denied that because you're an asshole.

[Koota]

This is the server trying to fight for a few rights from the fully geared VP crew, to allow for guilds to play and have fun and possibly some day contest without the ultra hardcore crowd (50-60 hrs a week, Tune probably is closer to 80-100) shitting all over them.

This is not one upping, this is trying to make this place playable, and they are fighting to be able to do what they want and keep it low populated to suit their own personal interests.

This is definitely one upping. There may be some times where people want to voice against the zerg majority of Nilly or whatever the fuck they are called. But at the end of the day, every 10 minutes, it's subtle jabs in OOC and in the forums. It's blatant jabs followed that. And it's a forum thread like this that is asking for some retribution or people coming together and acting like adults, and it spins out in to some bullshit situation about the PnP/LNS rules over one or a couple fucking instances.

Everyone participating in this shit should be embarrassed. For real.

[Stasis01]

I assure you it isn't one upping, this is essentially a civil war for the future of Red99.

[Technique]

Can we try to put an end to the lawyering, forumquesting and venom in ooc?From the looks of this thread, everyone is putting aside their differences in order to take a unified shit on your request.

[Bhubbles]

I would like some adjustments as well.

However we need some clarifications first. To my knowledge if you LNS from a zone and that person/guild who made you LNS is no longer in that zone then LNS time limit is invalid.

Elderan, I like you bud but come on with this eye for an eye thing! Nizz killed me earlier naked in rivervale on my warrior - you think I would do the same to Nihilum? Nope not my style, I would sow/port the person and wish him well.

There are people who don't care on both sides and enjoy the grief, if you really want change don't stoop to their level.

It's so simple but the special eds make this tough, if you pvp and lose loot & leave the zone. If you win, don't be an ahole and hell maybe even help the poor bastard out.

Easy stuff guys!

[Kergan]

From the looks of this thread, everyone is putting aside their differences in order to take a unified shit on your request.

Hey at least they are together on something. If I could have one thing on these forums it would be the ability to lock a user from posting in a thread I created. The second I saw Stasis was the first one to respond I knew this thread was fucked. The guy is literally incapable of not bringing his own agenda into every thread.

The most important sentence in my post was this:
"Come in with open minds, forgive the past and plan the future of this server. "

And the first fucking post is someone going "someone did blah blah blah to me this one time". And this same person claims repeatedly to want whats best for R99. Does that include shitting up every constructive thread created here? Please do us all a favor and STOP IT for christ sake. Your post was a direct attack on Nihilum and it immediately put Nizzar on the defensive. Maybe enough of this garbage from you and the GMs will wise up and revoke your ability to post here so rest of us have a snowballs chance in hell of talking through this like rational adults.

[Slathar]

To my fellow R99ers,

I am writing this in the hope that we can have a civil and rational discussion on what is happening on the server we've also chosen to devote hours of our free time on. This will not be a short post, but my hope is that if you care about the future of R99 that you'll spend a few minutes of your day to hear me out.

There is a lot of animosity between the two main guilds of R99 right now, Red Dawn and Nihilum. As many of you know I am currently a tagged applicant to Nihilum but it is the honest truth I am doing everything I can to see both sides of this. I am speaking not as a member or representative of Nihilum but as a member of the R99 community.

Let me start by saying what I believe to be true about the institution of the PVP PNP on R99: the staff is concerned about the long term viability of this server. It is not an easy
task to recruit a player base to an emu server for a 12 year old game, and even a more dire one to recruit them to a red server. Losing players for any reason is a very legitimate concern. It is also my belief that they feel the stranglehold Nihilum has had on R99 is a barrier for the sustainability of a long term healthy population. I also do not believe that the timing of the introduction of the PNP was coincidence, relative to the recent CC'ing episodes on Red Dawn (which were allowed by rule at the time).

But most importantly, I believe that no matter what rules are put in place and how they are enforced, none of it will mean a thing if the top guilds are not going to treat each other with basic respect and decency. If the conditions of victory in this battle are going to be massive account banning and players quitting in frustration it is not a victory for the server.

I believe there have been mistakes and errors on both sides. Nihilum feels like they are being treated unfairly by staff and being made an example of. Red Dawn feels like Nihilum is not treating them with respect and relishes the opportunity to make their life hell. In a lot of ways, I think, both sides have a fair argument.

What I see right now is a group on one side trying to get away with whatever they can to keep down their opponent, and people on the other side trying to do whatever they can to rise up. Unfortunately, we are not staying within the confines and means of the game mechanics. People are losing hundreds of hours of work on characters to bans and suspensions on BOTH sides. People are more concerned with getting fraps going in preparation for PVP then making sure they have buffs up.

What I am asking for is civil discourse between the leadership of Azrael, Red Dawn and Nihilum. We're sitting on a time bomb that has been ticking for years. People have battled each other for so long they are very much struggling to get past it. It will not be easy but I think if you guys could get together for an hour privately and come up with a means in which we can treat each other as human beings with huge amounts of time invested in our characters it would be beneficial to everyone. Come in with open minds, forgive the past and plan the future of this server. We can have some truly epic and great battles, especially with new content and a lot of returning players just around the corner with Velious.

Nizzar, Heartbrand, Lite...how 'bout it? Can we try to put an end to the lawyering, forumquesting and venom in ooc?

How about playing by the GM rules instead of being pieces of shit?

[Bazia]

Stopped reading when he said he was a tagged Nihilum applicant

Also explains the million anti-variance posts he made that started with "I'm not in Nihilum but I think variance is bad". AKA "I plan on joining next week"

lol

[Kergan]

I'm going to make one last attempt at forcibly pushing this train back onto the tracks.

This is my opinion on how we can make some constructive changes by the player base to make things better for everyone.

1. All parties agree to stop the quest to get peoples accounts banned. This includes massive petitioning every offense and flooding the staff with videos, screenshots, logs, etc of everything. Petitioning to the staff will be reserved for people abusing bugs to gain an advantage or very egregious violations, such as bind camping/corpse camping for a sustained period. Disciplinary action will be handled within the guild for minor infractions by mutually agreed terms. Be it docked DKP, suspending people from raids, public shaming, whatever.
2. The constant lawyering to find gray areas and ways to kill people when they are obviously CRing after a lost battle will cease. Things like "we killed him in seb but he is in TT right now on the way to CR so technically will can kill him since he doesn't have LNS rights in this zone". On the flip side, people will absolutely not do anything to fuck with the winning party/parties while on CR. This includes intentionally trying to get hit, rez boxing, opening trades, taunting, etc. You will make every effort to recover your corpse as quickly as possible and leave - not "as quickly as I have to".
3. All parties will agree to allow the losing guild of a PVP encounter to a GUILD CR. That includes dragging, rezzing, corpse summoning by people NOT ORIGINALLY INVOLVED in the encounter if necessary, if properly communicated and understood before said CR takes place.
4. All parties agree that if violations take place, such as an undeclared CR person entering the zone, a naked/CRing/LNS protected player engaging in PVP then said player forfeits LNS rights by default for the remainder of the LNS period. However, this should be communicated to the leadership of the opposition BEFORE action is taken whenever it is possible.
5. Leadership of major guilds will negotiate terms of defeat in a mass PVP battle. This is easier said than done, I know...but once a victor is declared it is OVER. No more PVP in that zone, CRs take place if needed and the zone is locked for entry for one hour.

Now can we please debate what I just said and not who has a bigger e-dick or who has been shit on more by the other? I've been here since October and frankly I don't give a fuck what happened 16 months ago. What matters is now and going forward.

Humbly yours,

Kergan, concerned R99 citizen

[Kergan]

Stopped reading when he said he was a tagged Nihilum applicant

Also explains the million anti-variance posts he made that started with "I'm not in Nihilum but I think variance is bad". AKA "I plan on joining next week"

lol

Believe it or not, some of us have the mental ability to separate what we think is best for everyone and what we think is best for us personally. They don't have to be mutually exclusive.

[Stasis01]

Nihilum seek out levelling guilds and corpse camp them essentially till they quit the box like was done with Heresy. Why would they work out terms now of all times?

This is forcing Nihi to clean up their act and they hate it, it works just fine.

[Kergan]

Please stop posting in this thread. You add nothing of value.

[vouss]

Didn't read anything but I don't have to worry about getting banned during PVP because I follow the rules.

[BeautBabeC]

Kergan so scared he wont get his pixels from Nihilum.

[Kergan]

Please, someone post something that isn't complete garbage and restore my faith in humanity.

[JayN]

http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Jimmies-Maximum-Over-Rustled-Meme-Gif.gif
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http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Jimmies-Maximum-Over-Rustled-Meme-Gif.gif

Jey sus loves you

[Tradesonred]

How about playing by the GM rules instead of being pieces of shit?

LOL this coming from slathar makes me grin from ear to ear

[Tune]

Im down for pnp rules , but they arent being used sensibly

Killing someone over and over again while at his or her bind-point or while they are in the process of retrieving their corpse is illegal and may result in disciplinary action taken against your account

if i, myself, kill a player one (1) time, no matter what the case, then i stop killing them for a long period of time .... how am i a griefer?

look at my logged kills and use your head ffs

[HippoNipple]

Im down for pnp rules , but they arent being used sensibly

Killing someone over and over again while at his or her bind-point or while they are in the process of retrieving their corpse is illegal and may result in disciplinary action taken against your account

if i, myself, kill a player one (1) time, no matter what the case, then i stop killing them for a long period of time .... how am i a griefer?

look at my logged kills and use your head ffs

Guild vs guild combat to where a naked character is calling for LNS to get corpse and then proceed to the next zone should not be attacked. This is very clear and has nothing to do with who you personally have killed prior. Playing ignorance to this and trying to abuse/tarnish a system the GMs put forth to promote a healthy community will not be tolerated.

You have been cleansed for your sins. Don't let it happen again.

[Tune]

what do u have to say for a person that just got rezd during the middle of the fight

[HippoNipple]

If someone gets rezzed that was killed in PvP then treat it as if they just zoned in. Let them loot and scoot to the next zone.

[Tune]

so ur saying im supoosed to keep track of who got rezd and looted in the middle of a mass pvp battle?

[Tune]

cuz im being penalized for an accidental kill on a rezd person during the chaos of mass pvp

[HippoNipple]

so ur saying im supoosed to keep track of who got rezd and looted in the middle of a mass pvp battle?

This is how I would play both sides, but then again I'm a peacekeeper.

If I was rezzed I would /corpse to a zoneline and probably sit and med until my rez effects died down enough for me to loot and scoot.

If I was the victor I would avoid all naked players.

[Tune]

yes i understand your point but this player took a rez in the middle of 40 people with aoes landing practically as he appeared

[HippoNipple]

I can't argue with a situation where I was not present. I believe a GM would say the same thing and only act with a good amount of evidence that it was a clear grief.

If you are saying GMs are acting on /petitions without proper evidence being present then it sounds like you are claiming the GMs are corrupt in favor of an opposing guild. If that is the case I feel for you.

[Tune]

sigh

[Colgate]

you didn't get banned for killing "someone who just got rezzed in front of you in mass pvp"

you're not fooling anyone with this bullshit

you knowingly broke a clearly stated rule multiple times while a GM watched you; log on one of your many alts for a week and stop crying about it you fucking weirdo

or better yet, GO OUTSIDE

[k9quaint]

Nobody had to petition Tune. The GM announced his presence in OOC, he watched what Tune was doing, it was obviously against the rules, Tune got suspended.

It is patently clear that Nihilum is incapable of following the rules, whatever those rules might be. All Red Dawn need do is continue to progress, contest, and take down dragons. Nihilum will be banned and suspended by GMs until they either get the message or go the way of TMO.

[Tune]

u trolls b mad

[k9quaint]

u trolls b mad

Watch this.
I just logged in on my main.

[Labanen]

I like the first post, essentially a call for the players to work out rules to play by so pnp can be more in the spirit of pnp than the current petitionquest which is fast eating away Peoples motivation to log in at all.

Maybe the time isnt right, as illustrated by troll posts by both sides, while 100 % ignoring what the OP was on about. Maybe some day time will be right, i hope anyone still play by then.

[Dacuk]

first off, thanks to milkshake for helping rez some red dawn CRing in seb earlier today. class act whoever that was.

nizzarr has too much ego / internet tough guy act going on to act civil, and hates HB too much to work any sort of compromise i think.

my proposal would be for mass pvp would be simple: LNS can only be called by a guild, not an individual. until the lns is called by a guild officer in OOC, anyone is fair game no matter what. once lns is called, nobody can attack anybody from either side. the best way to enforce this is by having guild leaders holding their people accountable with DKP / raid suspension penalties imo.

no way this would ever happen though, don't think the playerbase here is mature enough to drive accountability, so will need to stay in the hands of the GMs.

[Labanen]

Milkshake is milkshake, returning red veteran and all around good guy.

[Platexchange]

On live when major 72 on 72ish battles started we killed everyone even the naked opponents until the guild leader threw the white flag. Then opposing guild would send in clerics Rez and guild left. Never had an issue with that formula

[heartbrand]

first off, thanks to milkshake for helping rez some red dawn CRing in seb earlier today. class act whoever that was.

nizzarr has too much ego / internet tough guy act going on to act civil, and hates HB too much to work any sort of compromise i think.

my proposal would be for mass pvp would be simple: LNS can only be called by a guild, not an individual. until the lns is called by a guild officer in OOC, anyone is fair game no matter what. once lns is called, nobody can attack anybody from either side. the best way to enforce this is by having guild leaders holding their people accountable with DKP / raid suspension penalties imo.

no way this would ever happen though, don't think the playerbase here is mature enough to drive accountability, so will need to stay in the hands of the GMs.

I don't think this would work because nihilum never would call LNS. We saw this in classic with nagafen. They just continue to make it a war of attrition until you log out in frustration at spending eight hours to kill nagafen.

To nizzars point, the draggers weren't on lns. I have no issue letting people not on LNS help CR their guildies for as long as it takes and to Rez up and even med up tbqh, as long as it's with the understanding they have surrendered the engagement.We aren't going to let your monks and rogues not on LNS and your clerics not on LNS help cr in the zone if your members like spectre are still currently killing our members in the same zone. That doesn't mean we'd break the rules and attack the actual people on LNS. It's simple, surrender and you will be allowed as much time and assistance as you need as long as you don't interfere. No timer count downs or anything like that.

Also, Kergan playing white knight card despite fact I openly responded that I would welcome mature dialogue with no response from team nihilum .

[Stasis01]

I like the first post, essentially a call for the players to work out rules to play by so pnp can be more in the spirit of pnp than the current petitionquest which is fast eating away Peoples motivation to log in at all.

Maybe the time isnt right, as illustrated by troll posts by both sides, while 100 % ignoring what the OP was on about. Maybe some day time will be right, i hope anyone still play by then.

You guys don't agree with PNP, Kergan is a nobody, Nizzar is still griefing people, tune calls us all trolls even though he roams the world 16 hrs a day with an OP character farming lowbies/exp groups.

Nihilum has set the tone, they have had the physical power to change how the box since forever, now that the GM's enforce a PNP you're acting like it needs to be a logical discussion.

How about when Heresy was planar trash corpse camped, as well as their guild bind. What about Force, what about Red Dawn getting corpse camped. If there was no PNP would you guys be following Red Dawn now griefing/CCing them?

That is why no one is taking Kergan seriously.

[Stasis01]

I think you guys need to take a deep breath and embrace this instead of trying to bend and stretch each situation, like my cleric can LNS but he can't res me before scooting.

You guys still act like faggots even with PNP in place, ugh.

[chu]

blahblahblah seen red dawn rez freshly yt'd kids to just join back in the fight in lil ol' guk, can only imagine what kind of abuse of the rules they pull for a dragon

[Stasis01]

It's true, and that needs to be addressed/thought about - but after all the res/rejoining bullshit happened it led it's way into one main fight, of about 30 Nihi vs about 50 of us (not going to give Elderan #'s we had an advantage) plus all the good sharknado guys/azrael guys/RD everyone's kinda A-team for the server united.

We won the main fight, killed most of the Nihi, about 10-15 made it out and locked down LS killing naked people and preparing for a battle of hours, even though we just won.

I think that's the GM's plan - assemble, fight, and It's over. I guess Nihilum did good with the other style thus they are upset, but TBH I like it and hope people give it a shot. I don't want raid mob contesting to equal hour and hours of dragging shit out, it turns into a waiting game and a game of who can handle shitty boring time waste better.

Either way, we took control of Solb by killing MANY Nihi and we weren't nit picking on who came back, Kina was one for sure, but really we killed quite a few. The main fight had all of Nihi, and all of us - was a cut and dry win.

[thisuserwasbannedlol]

stopped reading at applicant to nihilum

part of the problem not the solution

[Nirgon]

Scrolled back for the Colgate post showing what kind of person Nizzar is.

[SamwiseRed]

Op sounds like a loser. Play by the rules or get banned, plain and simple.

[Kergan]

Honestly what does it matter if I'm a Nihilum applicant? If anything my post asked for more behavioral changes and compromises from the side I'm on then the other way around. Pretend I'm a RD member and re-read it and answer accordingly.

And Heartbrand you seem like a level headed individual. Why can't you call out your own guys for shitting up this thread as much as Nihilum? When the very first response is someone in your guild not even addressing what is said but instead using it as yet another soapbox to rag on Nihilum what possible chance is there for any intelligent discussion?

Or we can just continue to call me a nobody or a loser and ignore the content of the post. The fact that a post I made to try and bring people together for compromise is likely going to end up in RNF speaks volumes about our chances to do what I am suggesting.

[Twainz]

Honestly what does it matter if I'm a Nihilum applicant? If anything my post asked for more behavioral changes and compromises from the side I'm on then the other way around. Pretend I'm a RD member and re-read it and answer accordingly.

And Heartbrand you seem like a level headed individual. Why can't you call out your own guys for shitting up this thread as much as Nihilum? When the very first response is someone in your guild not even addressing what is said but instead using it as yet another soapbox to rag on Nihilum what possible chance is there for any intelligent discussion?

Or we can just continue to call me a nobody or a loser and ignore the content of the post. The fact that a post I made to try and bring people together for compromise is likely going to end up in RNF speaks volumes about our chances to do what I am suggesting.

When you app to a guild that has been the biggest problem with the server since birth, it makes you a part of the problem. I should know, I did it too. I got my gear and peaced out to help others less fortunate than myself.

[Kergan]

When you app to a guild that has been the biggest problem with the server since birth, it makes you a part of the problem. I should know, I did it too. I got my gear and peaced out to help others less fortunate than myself.

I can understand your opinion with this. But does it mean every idea I have on how to improve the server (including compromises by Nihilum) needs to get completely discounted?

[Twainz]

I can understand your opinion with this. But does it mean every idea I have on how to improve the server (including compromises by Nihilum) needs to get completely discounted?

It means you are nothing. You are not a person, you are a number. Nizzar doesn't care what you want the server to be. If you do what he says then that is all he cares about. You are applying to a guild that gives 0 fucks about the server or any kind of integrity. If you want something to change, help change it. Don't join the main problem and say, "Hey guys, look I'm a good person, even though I assist murders and rapists on the reg."

[heartbrand]

It means you are nothing. You are not a person, you are a number. Nizzar doesn't care what you want the server to be. If you do what he says then that is all he cares about. You are applying to a guild that gives 0 fucks about the server or any kind of integrity. If you want something to change, help change it. Don't join the main problem and say, "Hey guys, look I'm a good person, even though I assist murders and rapists on the reg."

Extreme analogy, but the concept is true. Nihilum is ran by someone who doesn't care about server health and has admitted it multiple times. I'm still willing to talk to the guy, but he has no interest. It is what it is I'm afraid.

[runlvlzero]

When you app to a guild that has been the biggest problem with the server since birth, it makes you a part of the problem. I should know, I did it too. I got my gear and peaced out to help others less fortunate than myself.

Twainz almost inspires loyalty in me, not sure.

Problem is everyone is calling everyone account strippers these days.

In game Twainz has been pretty cool.