Sirken, the server can't come to an agreement

[Hawala]

I'm not sure what you're expecting Sirken, but what kind of agreement do you want? There are lots of us who would rather see nobody get any kind of raid mobs at all than come to an agreement.

Are you asking for consensus? Because it just won't happen.

[phacemeltar]

i think thats the point.

[phacemeltar]

its like in kindergarden when your teacher would say everyone can go outside as soon as no one is talking..

[Hawala]

its like in kindergarden when your teacher would say everyone can go outside as soon as no one is talking..

Or like saying you can play with your 10 toys as long as you can devise a way to share them with 1000 kids in your kindergarten class.

[Elmarnieh]

It's about as just and reasonable as the level of intelligence in dealing with human-centric problems I expect from kindergarten teachers (who require no job specific training).

[SwordNboard]

Since there are more raid-capable guilds and level 60s due to the extended Kunark timeline, they just need to increase raid spawns to multiple times per week. Say there are 9 raid guilds. Have raid targets spawn 3-4 times per week, but you cannot kill the same target more than once per week. That leaves competition in, and rotations out. Any newer guild breaking in to the raid scene could be investigated as being an alt guild. With this many mobs to guilds, you could still have guilds that come out dry from competing and losing targets.

[drakelord]

Since there are more raid-capable guilds and level 60s due to the extended Kunark timeline, they just need to increase raid spawns to multiple times per week. Say there are 9 raid guilds. Have raid targets spawn 3-4 times per week, but you cannot kill the same target more than once per week. That leaves competition in, and rotations out. Any newer guild breaking in to the raid scene could be investigated as being an alt guild. With this many mobs to guilds, you could still have guilds that come out dry from competing and losing targets.

Who's going to do those investigations? Admins are already busy enough as it is.

[Hawala]

Can we just stay raid suspended until Velious comes out? Seriously.

[Rhambuk]

"Sirken, this server can't come to an agreement"

Then this server can't raid.

[Elmarnieh]

Since there are more raid-capable guilds and level 60s due to the extended Kunark timeline, they just need to increase raid spawns to multiple times per week. Say there are 9 raid guilds. Have raid targets spawn 3-4 times per week, but you cannot kill the same target more than once per week. That leaves competition in, and rotations out. Any newer guild breaking in to the raid scene could be investigated as being an alt guild. With this many mobs to guilds, you could still have guilds that come out dry from competing and losing targets.

This most simple solution to lack of supply and absundance of demand is to increase supply instead the decrease supply with variance which pushes guilds to compete even more. Intentions and hopes of a policy have no bearing on the actual effects of a policy.

Three day mobs to one day mobs, 7 day mobs to three day mobs - remove variance. Issue resolves itself.

This happened on live with the rise of the great raiding guilds in Kunark and Verants solution was to increase the supply of raid target (hello Velious design). Since we should already be in Velious its a no-brainer for me to decrease raid mob spawn rates. For some reasons the GM's see this as not-classic in a way totally different than the way years of no velious and variance are not-classic.

[Ravager]

"Sirken, this server can't come to an agreement"

Then this server can't raid.

That's what you think. I've got little plans.

[Rhambuk]

if Zeelots claim of tmo disbandment by tonight if the raid suspension isn't lifted id love to see how he goes out.

hopefully its not just press the button but a mass raid forcing sirk to ban them all.

at least make it interesting

[Elmarnieh]

If the server can't raid the server will end. The loss of raiders will cripple the economy and the players who remain will eventually want to raid because its the only new quests or areas for them.

[Rhambuk]

If the server can't raid the server will end. The loss of raiders will cripple the economy and the players who remain will eventually want to raid because its the only new quests or areas for them.

rofl what?

raiders are in the minority, the economy doesn't revolve around epic mqs and raid loot.

im sure there are hundreds of people that would happily lfg in seb everynight and just be social.

Most people started here for nostalgia, not for pixels....

[Messianic]

The loss of raiders will cripple the economy

HAHAHAHAHAHHAA

[Hawala]

rofl what?

raiders are in the minority, the economy doesn't revolve around epic mqs and raid loot.

im sure there are hundreds of people that would happily lfg in seb everynight and just be social.

Most people started here for nostalgia, not for pixels....

I agree. Get rid of raids altogether, force us into a six month detox.

[fadetree]

I'm here because I like the game, not for nostalgia. I eventually want my epic, and I do like to raid occasionally. If I know I'll never be able to raid and I'll never get my epic, then I'll probably stop playing.
I don't expect them to leave the raid suspension in permanently, raiding is too much of the game for that.

[phacemeltar]

i tried raiding, was too srs.

[Ravager]

If the server can't raid the server will end. The loss of raiders will cripple the economy and the players who remain will eventually want to raid because its the only new quests or areas for them.

If anything the economy will level out to something more reasonable, when people don't have to save up for their Trak BP's and VS stones, they'll be less inclined to sell things at ridiculous prices.

As for no raids killing the server, that cons dubious.

[Hawala]

I'm here because I like the game, not for nostalgia. I eventually want my epic, and I do like to raid occasionally. If I know I'll never be able to raid and I'll never get my epic, then I'll probably stop playing.
I don't expect them to leave the raid suspension in permanently, raiding is too much of the game for that.

Hey Fade, I'm in the exact same situation. I've got a level 55 wizard and a 50 shaman, I mostly just play when I'm traveling for work, and sometimes I'm in the mood to raid on the weekend.

I'll never get the chance to get my epic for my wiz-- ever, unless I give someone from a big guild a million plat.

[Kiln99]

If not reaching an agreement leads to an outcome that some of the negotiating parties desire... Of course there's not gonna be a fucking agreement. I respect Sirken and do not envy his position as well as the other admins, but this whole arrangement is flawed.

[phacemeltar]

i dont understand why the devs want people to think this is some sort of democracy. that bullshit will never work.

[Rhambuk]

democracy. that bullshit will never work.

doesn't work in real life why would it work here?

[zanderklocke]

If anything the economy will level out to something more reasonable, when people don't have to save up for their Trak BP's and VS stones, they'll be less inclined to sell things at ridiculous prices.

As for no raids killing the server, that cons dubious.

Wouldn't the opposite happen?

If items like dragon hero bracer, trak bps, or vs greaves stop dropping, wouldn't the price on those skyrocket?

All other items would still be entering market at same frequency and probably wouldn't fluctuate in price much unless they started getting over farmed due to raiders needing something to do.

[Hawala]

Wouldn't the opposite happen?

If items like dragon hero bracer, trak bps, or vs greaves stop dropping, wouldn't the price on those skyrocket?

All other items would still be entering market at same frequency and probably wouldn't fluctuate in price much unless they started getting over farmed due to raiders needing something to do.

It wouldn't have any effect unless there were something shifting supply or demand.

[fishingme]

I'm not sure what you're expecting Sirken, but what kind of agreement do you want? There are lots of us who would rather see nobody get any kind of raid mobs at all than come to an agreement.

Are you asking for consensus? Because it just won't happen.

Peace and quiet from petitions from poopsockers. Staff is enforcing a raid agreement because most of you raiders act like stupid children. Figure out your raid agreements, yeah you guys are going to lose raid targets more than you would like, but that's what happens in this situation.

[snwbrdr642]

This most simple solution to lack of supply and absundance of demand is to increase supply instead the decrease supply with variance which pushes guilds to compete even more. Intentions and hopes of a policy have no bearing on the actual effects of a policy.

Three day mobs to one day mobs, 7 day mobs to three day mobs - remove variance. Issue resolves itself.

This happened on live with the rise of the great raiding guilds in Kunark and Verants solution was to increase the supply of raid target (hello Velious design). Since we should already be in Velious its a no-brainer for me to decrease raid mob spawn rates. For some reasons the GM's see this as not-classic in a way totally different than the way years of no velious and variance are not-classic.

this makes a lot of sense to me. yeah increasing spawn rates isn't classic, but neither is 3 years of kunark, variance, suspending raiding and the fact that it is over 10 years later and online culture has changed dramatically.

the goal of recreating a classic experience is a noble one, but we need to realize that we are indeed recreating and copying exactly is never going to be a real possibility. it is incorrect and irresponsible of GMs and staff to point fingers at bad behavior and claim that 100% of the fault lies in the actions of those behaving badly. it is also unreasonable for the players to have exceedingly high expectations for a team of staff and GMs that are volunteers and are doing the best they can with the resources available.

[SirAlvarex]

Raid suspension unfortunately only solves so much. The lower tier guilds don't care because, well, for the most part they aren't getting any raid kills anyway. What reason do they have to budge on any deal that doesn't benefit them? They are getting just as many raid kills as before, only now we get to watch the "insanely hardcore" guilds go without their medicine.

And, on top of that, any solution that the "lesser" guilds would want would also require a change in variance, which I guess is offlimits? So there once again is something that gives them no reason to cave.

Basically, this won't end until the guilds who have dominated this server switch to a method where all guilds are on 100% equal footing, no matter the guilds numbers or their ability to play for ungodly consecutive hours.

But hey, I'm just enjoyin the show!

[stewe]

Some of the top guilds don't care about an agreement, some of them block raids just so others don't get the loot and no raiding at all helps them still be able to wave their pixels and act like they are better then everyone else. If they can't block guilds from getting the loot by killing the mobs, they have no problem blocking everyone. Pretty pathetic but probably true.

[Tanthallas]

It wouldn't have any effect unless there were something shifting supply or demand.

Supply and Demand - code for I dont know what the fuck is happening or why its happening.

Thanks for that insight though.

[Unidus]

This most simple solution to lack of supply and absundance of demand is to increase supply instead the decrease supply with variance which pushes guilds to compete even more. Intentions and hopes of a policy have no bearing on the actual effects of a policy.

Three day mobs to one day mobs, 7 day mobs to three day mobs - remove variance. Issue resolves itself.

This happened on live with the rise of the great raiding guilds in Kunark and Verants solution was to increase the supply of raid target (hello Velious design). Since we should already be in Velious its a no-brainer for me to decrease raid mob spawn rates. For some reasons the GM's see this as not-classic in a way totally different than the way years of no velious and variance are not-classic.

Finally someone with a brain. Now if only the devs would wake up and understand this way works. All that you said with a one day mob every 3 days and a 3 day mob every 7 days limit for guilds to share. This way guilds can't kill 1 day mobs every day and it opens up kills for the smaller guilds to try to get.

[Sirken]

I'm not sure what you're expecting Sirken, but what kind of agreement do you want? There are lots of us who would rather see nobody get any kind of raid mobs at all than come to an agreement.

Are you asking for consensus? Because it just won't happen.

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