The Deru' Plan C discussion

[Xadion]

reading the responses from most of the 'B' guilds it seems clear they have no desire to compete, push forward, strive to be better and advance. They just want mobs handed to them, they will only think of their handed mobs, no thought of working and striving forward and upward... Nope just gimmy my rotation mobs k thanks drive through

they only look at their given on a plate number of mobs, not 'oh if we use the advantages worked in the system we can advance and grow our guild!'

their reason why all this 'CHANGE' needed to happen is because they can't compete or do anything they need help! They get offered help, and they say the truth...not help, handouts are wanted...and now seemingly demanded.

its kind of sad...

[oddibemcd]

I foresee this ending well.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Allow me to remind you of your said "competition" and why we refuse to participate in it:

Raid Scene
It continues to be an aggravating realization among CSR staff that 10% of the server population causes 90% of the problems. We are all for competition, but it needs to be fair competition. We are also all here for the same thing, to experience classic Everquest. The same guild monopolizing raid content for 2 years that they might not even need anymore is ridiculous, just to block other guilds from the chance of gearing up to take on the same end game content.

I was thinking to myself the other day and I came to ask myself.. Are we providing this server to give people the arena to compete to such bitter extremes that it has resorted to taking every absolute measure to be victorious, or are we here to provide a classic Everquest experience for everyone to enjoy?

A lot of you make fun of it in your own terms, but it really does come down to fighting over very old content.

Either way, we're tired of the constant bickering, the training, the ninja looting, and all the other bullshit that's going on.

TMO/FE/IB can now have all the cut-throat competition amongst each other that they've always wanted. Or is that not sounding good anymore?

[Lanuven]

reading the responses from most of the 'B' guilds it seems clear they have no desire to compete, push forward, strive to be better and advance. They just want mobs handed to them, they will only think of their handed mobs, no thought of working and striving forward and upward... Nope just gimmy my rotation mobs k thanks drive through

they only look at their given on a plate number of mobs, not 'oh if we use the advantages worked in the system we can advance and grow our guild!'

their reason why all this 'CHANGE' needed to happen is because they can't compete or do anything they need help! They get offered help, and they say the truth...not help, handouts are wanted...and now seemingly demanded.

its kind of sad...

The reason the change needs to happen has been stated by Rogean already. The staff is tired of dealing with the CSR crap between the "A" guilds. You're crying for competition on a game thats been beat over and over for the past 14 years in a number a variations. If you want competition go find a more competitive sport than sitting on your ass at all hours of the day watching track.

Staff has stated the need for change not the "B" guilds. Hence the suspension if no agreement.

[Lune]

Must be interesting to live in a world where everything is black and white, and you're either competing on the level where you're shitting in socks and waking up at 5am, or you're collecting handouts.

Also, I have always landed on the hardcore side of the casual vs. hardcore debate. I wish you could understand how fucked up it is that the "hardcore" position is too untenable even for me-- I haven't showered in weeks.

[Splorf22]

Xadion how about you and TMO attempt to set a group record for polesitting? I'm pretty sure you'd be good at it . . . not that anyone would care, which is also how we feel about your 'competition'.

[Barkingturtle]

This thread smacks of Pixel Insecurity. I've seen this before. It's an all too common consequence of whiling the best years of your life striving to slay the dragon.

Xadion, what you've accomplished here will always have meaning. Nothing will ever change that.

[sulious]

Allow me to remind you of your said "competition" and why we refuse to participate in it:



TMO/FE/IB can now have all the cut-throat competition amongst each other that they've always wanted. Or is that not sounding good anymore?

Correct...

[Thulack]

Let me ask you why you need to compete on a emulated server of a 14 year old game? Do you not have enough competition in your life? I mean do you want a medal for beating 14 year old content for years on a server with 1k people on it usually? If your enjoy "competing" in p99 i really just feel sad for you.

[Elements]

The Simple Plan

The solution to all the servers raid problems in one sentence.

[Derubael]

Everyone seems to be forgetting a really important part of that Rogean post...

Starting today and then evaluated when Velious is released the CSR staff will be keeping track of how the raid guilds are treating eachother. If we do not see a significant improvement in the behavior of the raiding guilds and how they treat eachother, Velious will be released without raid content. To be clear, we want an enjoyable raid scene for everyone, not just one or two guilds. This means working together to figure out a compromise when racing for mobs, and working with smaller guilds to let them have a chance at mobs you don't absolutely need for gearing main characters.

I think Preparation C does that quite nicely. Oops, I mean Proposition C.

Also, to the entire forum community, let's stop trying to make posts/threads bashing the other side for the way they play. Both casuals and hardcore's have a legitimate claim to this server, and shouldn't come under fire for the way they enjoy the game.

[Elements]

Everyone seems to be forgetting a really important part of that Rogean post...



I think Preparation C does that quite nicely. Oops, I mean Proposition C.

Also, to the entire forum community, let's stop trying to make posts/threads bashing the other side for the way they play. Both casuals and hardcore's have a legitimate claim to this server, and shouldn't come under fire for the way they enjoy the game.

Agreed, though what ever system is chosen I hope effort = reward takes precedence while allowing non-competitive guilds a taste of raid mobs.

[Tegellan]

Let me ask you why you need to compete on a emulated server of a 14 year old game? Do you not have enough competition in your life? I mean do you want a medal for beating 14 year old content for years on a server with 1k people on it usually? If your enjoy "competing" in p99 i really just feel sad for you.

Not saying your right or wrong. but Why do you play a 14 year old game?
Most of us came here to relive EQ.. on live there was competition. On Live there was a high Risk VS Reward.
Without competition or risk we are not "reliving Everquest" we might as well run around on the live server in the old zones if we just want to see old EQ

[Man0warr]

On live there was never 6-8 guilds capable of killing the endgame content at one time. At best the most populated servers had maybe 3 on the bleeding edge with the rest spread out in past expansions.

Unfortunately, no proposal can fix what's broken with this situation.

[falkun]

Derubael, your proposal does not cover mobs being left up. If tier1 first spawn mobs are left up indetinately then the t1 ffa period gets screwed. If they arent killed fast enough, t1 guilds complain, and finally if they are put to FFA too fast the t2 guilds will not have time to kill. The divinty propsal has time limits that allows tier2 mobs to go to ffa. Its also moves the gamesmanship (read: competition) from the engage to properly selecting targets you can mobilize for, which meets the csr goal of reducing asshattery. These large periods where tier2 guilds have to compete, on tier1 standards, with tier1 guilds is what tier2 guilds are trying to avoid because no one has discussed anything that decreases the historic asshattery during engages/fte.

Maybe if competing against tier1 was not so ugly, tier2 could get on board with the suggestion. In my experience, tmo (as an example of tier1) will only adhere to the letter of the law and not the intent. That is what tier2 guilds are trying to avoid dealing with.

[Derubael]

It's easy to set limits on rotated mobs, ie, you must engage within X hours.

Makes everyone happy. Proposition C is just a 'bare bones' core rule proposal. Specifics can be worked out if everyone agrees to the proposal itself.

[Tegellan]

On live there was never 6-8 guilds capable of killing the endgame content at one time. At best the most populated servers had maybe 3 on the bleeding edge with the rest spread out in past expansions.

Unfortunately, no proposal can fix what's broken with this situation.

[Seltius]

Plan C sounds like some weird birth control pill for the raid scene. Guess it beats Preparation H

[falkun]

So tier2 relinquished any aspirations of tier1 holing up in the loot pinata of vp. Tier1 then comes back and says thats not enough. Then tier1 starts pushing tier2 guilds to compete with tier1 without any stipulations that protect tier2 (or tier1) from fte, fraps, and petitionquest. If you'd like tier2 to compete, dial down the bullshit meter. Since no one has offered anything on that front, tier2 would just like to avoid it.

[Arteker]

So tier2 relinquished any aspirations of tier1 holing up in the loot pinata of vp. Tier1 then comes back and says thats not enough. Then tier1 starts pushing tier2 guilds to compete with tier1 without any stipulations that protect tier2 (or tier1) from fte, fraps, and petitionquest. If you'd like tier2 to compete, dial down the bullshit meter. Since no one has offered anything on that front, tier2 would just like to avoid it.

for FTE u have fte shouts
Fraps are there to protect u !.
Petitionquest isnt what u doing to avoid competition?, what if GM forced u to it ?. no one likes to be forced isnt it ?.

what u fear, vp is not anymore train territory , FTE shouts are there to let you know who engaged first so u dont kill the other guild mob .


what stop you since ur guild have the keys to zone in vp chek if anything is up , call ur friends and kill it?.

[Hitpoint]

People in the raid discussion forum act like we aren't already giving up way more than we think is fair. Every single one of these proposals is terrible for us, we're only losing while you're only gaining. We tried proposals, and they got shot down because they didn't give enough. This started out as upper guilds being asked to share mobs, and we tried to do that. Now it's devolved into the other guilds taking as much as they can get. We offered 7 days of full casual rotation, you said 14, we offered 10, you said 14. Where is the compromise? Derubael's deal is close to it.

We (regular fe members) aren't allowed to post in that section of the boards. But from talks among us it's pretty much unanimous that Rogean's proposal isn't acceptable whatsoever, so stop pretending like it's a real possibility. There's like 5 other deals we'd take before that one.

[falkun]

Art, i apologize if i misinterpret. Even with fte shouts, sirken noted this mess began because every kill involved a petition, and that was when only feib and tmo were participating. With plan c, we are about to go right back to the same "competition". Why would tier2 guilds involve themselves in that?

[falkun]

Fine hitpoint. Develop some rules where competition isnt fte, fraps, and petitionquest and tier2 can agree. Otherwise any forced competition is the status quo.

[Prismaticshop]

Andro, you make no sense at all.

[Hitpoint]

Art, i apologize if i misinterpret. Even with fte shouts, sirken noted this mess began because every kill involved a petition, and that was when only feib and tmo were participating. With plan c, we are about to go right back to the same "competition". Why would tier2 guilds involve themselves in that?

Because TMO is under new leadership who may not support all this petition quest BS. I can tell you we never wanted to participate to begin with.

[Hitpoint]

Fine hitpoint. Develop some rules where competition isnt fte, fraps, and petitionquest and tier2 can agree. Otherwise any forced competition is the status quo.

It's not though. New TMO has already shown to be much more amicable than the old leadership. I have a lot of hope for the raid scene tbh, even with all this going on. I wouldn't be surprised if a guild council could actually police themselves at this point. Maybe I'm being too optimistic. We'll see.

[Gwence]

reading the responses from most of the 'B' guilds it seems clear they have no desire to compete, push forward, strive to be better and advance. They just want mobs handed to them, they will only think of their handed mobs, no thought of working and striving forward and upward... Nope just gimmy my rotation mobs k thanks drive through

they only look at their given on a plate number of mobs, not 'oh if we use the advantages worked in the system we can advance and grow our guild!'

their reason why all this 'CHANGE' needed to happen is because they can't compete or do anything they need help! They get offered help, and they say the truth...not help, handouts are wanted...and now seemingly demanded.

its kind of sad...

The only thing that is sad is this post. I think it's time to go get a life.

[Tegellan]

We have 5000 people from all different timezones/ parts of the world.
The staff has asked everyone to come together and agree on how we should proceed with the raid scene.

I dont think you could get 10 people to agree nevermind 5000. Everyone naturally wants more then they "should" get.

At some point the GMS/Staff are going to have to step in and say "this is what we are doing" or the server will begin to shrink at a rapid pace when no one can raid and all the "good" camps are imposible to get. (the other day I ran to see if PS came was open.. there was a line of 3 people behind the person who was actually camping it)


I think a few things are obvious now.

1) GMs will have to step in and decide on what the raid scene will be
2) As soon as a decision is reached the population will drop (at least for now). If the rules favor the casual group. You will see a lot of the top guilds leave the game or at least the bulk of the members. If they favor the raiders you will see a few casual players leave (altho not a lot as they played when they were getting 0 mobs).. eitherway 1 or all sides will feel they got screwed.


As much as I am sure the intentions were good and I think Sirken and the GM staff have done a great job (far better then I ever could). I personally believe putting this on the player base was a bad idea. People on both sides will hold the server hostage now. The Casual players have the mindset of "we were not doing much raids before so we can hold out longer then those that were raiding" and the Hardcores have the mindset of "We can sit at our computer for hours on end tracking.. we certainly have the drive/willpower to hold out as long as needed.

Neither side is going to budge.

[Arteker]

Art, i apologize if i misinterpret. Even with fte shouts, sirken noted this mess began because every kill involved a petition, and that was when only feib and tmo were participating. With plan c, we are about to go right back to the same "competition". Why would tier2 guilds involve themselves in that?

First and most im von and i think u know me from grouping alot .
i think u are rigth most TMO/ FE meembers i think are tired of forum questin and frapsquestion and petition quest.


What happened to tmo well it happened . but as i see it i think its time to keep some form of civilized competition btwm guilds but at same time without the old cuthroads wars
and give some stuff to smaller guilds .


from every post i have read over last weeks there havent been a single one trying actualy to get a play nice raid politic .

i think than competition still viable but without popsocks and pre camps .

i see vp free of trains a excelent idea , never liked it .

for once i would love a official post from gms guild leaders to agree some rules of competition for the server but as a work to see if was possible to devise a friendly way to develop some form of competition.


Because lets be honests , what most people want is free pixels as fast is possible and in hugue ammount fuck qualitys.

would i like to see bda kill PD? yeah, the same way i did laughed me ass when actualy FE beat us for it .

and Taken yeah ? and everyone who put some interest and effort.


and know why? because people who try to race or atleats try it show he is here to stay for the long run no just for / xxx loot and quits and call platlord so some eqmac can buy a account like i haven watching lately .

[Fael]

When did "working with smaller guilds to let them have a chance at mobs you don't absolutely need for gearing main characters" turn into a complete and complicated revision of the EQ classic raiding... to the point of giving "smaller guilds" not "a chance" but carte blanch authority to take 50% of the raid targets?

Seriously. FE/TMO's original proposal did just that. Albiet it left off some key epic mobs that smaller guilds should "have a chance" to get. To some degree Proposition C does just that,but perhaps it gives up too much in the other areas.

Dolic

[Arteker]

We have 5000 people from all different timezones/ parts of the world.
The staff has asked everyone to come together and agree on how we should proceed with the raid scene.

I dont think you could get 10 people to agree nevermind 5000. Everyone naturally wants more then they "should" get.

At some point the GMS/Staff are going to have to step in and say "this is what we are doing" or the server will begin to shrink at a rapid pace when no one can raid and all the "good" camps are imposible to get. (the other day I ran to see if PS came was open.. there was a line of 3 people behind the person who was actually camping it)


I think a few things are obvious now.

1) GMs will have to step in and decide on what the raid scene will be
2) As soon as a decision is reached the population will drop (at least for now). If the rules favor the casual group. You will see a lot of the top guilds leave the game or at least the bulk of the members. If they favor the raiders you will see a few casual players leave (altho not a lot as they played when they were getting 0 mobs).. eitherway 1 or all sides will feel they got screwed.


As much as I am sure the intentions were good and I think Sirken and the GM staff have done a great job (far better then I ever could). I personally believe putting this on the player base was a bad idea. People on both sides will hold the server hostage now. The Casual players have the mindset of "we were not doing much raids before so we can hold out longer then those that were raiding" and the Hardcores have the mindset of "We can sit at our computer for hours on end tracking.. we certainly have the drive/willpower to hold out as long as needed.

Neither side is going to budge.

Jesus u nailed it finnaly someone who understand both sides

[Xadion]

Andro makes more sense than half you all and that's with out translation.

Gwence, heh. We got all sorts of people coming out of the wood work tonight.

I fully understand there are a wide array of play styles, and mine is anything but hard core..look at my raid history on TMOs DKP and compare it to the whole.

I won't divulge into much as people did not even start replies with logic, but just attacks and personal statements, so very 'internet-y' indeed.

It shows why the 'work for welfare' laws never stood a chance, *most* and *the most vocal* people that use it do not want to be better, they just want what 'They are entitled' to under their messed up ideas of self entitlement. Are those that legit need help- yes... But they are the ones working to move upward.

Personally I am disappointed in some members of Azure Guard and their lack of gusto... Coming from Veeshan on live, and knowing their origins there... I thought that maybe their drive was here also. I was in Primus Exodus and fought and worked along that tier of guilds on Veeshan and lived with the likes of FoH , CD, PD, CoE etc. I hoped AG would use whatever strategy and compromise that arises to rally and step it up. I would love to see AG become a prominent P99 guild. Veeshan forever.

[Arteker]

Andro makes more sense than half you all and that's with out translation.

Gwence, heh. We got all sorts of people coming out of the wood work tonight.

I fully understand there are a wide array of play styles, and mine is anything but hard core..look at my raid history on TMOs DKP and compare it to the whole.

I won't divulge into much as people did not even start replies with logic, but just attacks and personal statements, so very 'internet-y' indeed.

It shows why the 'work for welfare' laws never stood a chance, *most* and *the most vocal* people that use it do not want to be better, they just want what 'They are entitled' to under their messed up ideas of self entitlement. Are those that legit need help- yes... But they are the ones working to move upward.

Personally I am disappointed in some members of Azure Guard and their lack of gusto... Coming from Veeshan on live, and knowing their origins there... I thought that maybe their drive was here also. I was in Primus Exodus and fought and worked along that tier of guilds on Veeshan and lived with the likes of FoH , CD, PD, CoE etc. I hoped AG would use whatever strategy and compromise that arises to rally and step it up. I would love to see AG become a prominent P99 guild. Veeshan forever.

Thanks for the support but remember this psycho left his arse to pin furor and won .

Never forget TR > Foh
Fck that paladin hater

[Tycko]

It's not though. New TMO has already shown to be much more amicable than the old leadership. I have a lot of hope for the raid scene tbh, even with all this going on. I wouldn't be surprised if a guild council could actually police themselves at this point. Maybe I'm being too optimistic. We'll see.

news flash, the same people running tmo the last 6-12 months are the same ones reforming it.

the root cause of this entire cluster f___ has yet to be identified and fixed.

edit: Oh yeah, and happy new year

[Pheer]

One thing thats been bothering me about all these talks is the "tier 2 guilds" acting like agreeing to leave VP ffa is some kind of huge compromise on their part, when the vast majority of them dont currently have the keys to raid it anyway. If the key didnt have a bottleneck like trak guarding it I find it very hard to believe that these guilds wouldn't be demanding their fair share of VP just as much as they are the other content right now.

That being said I still feel like the divinity plan is a fair proposal and one of the less complicated/confusing ones out of those that have been considered the last few days.

[Splorf22]

When did "working with smaller guilds to let them have a chance at mobs you don't absolutely need for gearing main characters turn into a complete and complicated revision of the EQ classic raiding to the point of giving "smaller guilds" not "a chance" but carte blanch to 50% of the raid targets?

Question: what mobs do you absolutely need for your main?

[Tegellan]

Question: what mobs do you absolutely need for your main?

Due to the the fact that we are at a stale state with how long Kunark has been out.. recruitment is a never ending battle to keep going.. This means there is always ungeared players even in TMO.. Every raid mob drops SOMETHING.. that is an upgrade to someone in every guild.

That said.. Does someone really need to kill Talendar for a haste items when eventually they will get a sky haste belt. The answer is no.. but that can also be said for any guild that raids in sky at all.

[cyryllis]

i still need a treasure hunters satchel on my main, never win that roll.

Yes, need, because I have super low strength and tink bags are heavy.

[CodyF86]

Because 16% and 21% < 31% / 36%?

Aaradin
The A-Team

[Xadion]

Because 16% and 21% < 31% / 36%?

Aaradin
The A-Team

and 41% > all yo..and that's why Sky is insane... Sky gear at times is BIS close to raid gear Vel, some beyond.

[CodyF86]

and 41% > all yo..and that's why Sky is insane... Sky gear at times is BIS close to raid gear Vel, some beyond.

Aye for sure, really was just me failing at being vaguely witty lol. :)

Aaradin
The A-Team

[oddibemcd]

Seems to be confusion over can't and won't in that forum.

I think it's incorrect to say that many tier-2 guilds can't compete.
Instead, these guilds won't compete, mainly because of the system that has come into effect, primarily because of variance, but also due to the attitudes of players.

[Fael]

I ABSOLUTELY NEED a crown of rile, thank you. Unfortunately, we've had one or two drop in the last 3 or 4 months. Welcome to ever quest.

I also absolutely NEED a AON, a blade stopper, a water shield, a PD cloak, and a shield of immaculate.

I very much WANT a gnarled staff.

----------

Dolic

[Ambrotos]

Never forget TR < Breaking fear. 122 person wipe.
Fck that paladin hater

Fixed it for ya.

[Autotune]

Fixed it for ya.

Ambrotos, what is your opinion on the raid proposal dilemma?

[Arteker]

Fixed it for ya.

you showing ur colours again and u still bitter . that make me sooo proud .u still lose.

[Xadion]

I got Andro on a back in the day mood again! The tales of lives best pally :)

[Derubael]

With plan c, we are about to go right back to the same "competition". Why would tier2 guilds involve themselves in that?

How does Plan C do this...?

[Ataxio]

Can we just pick one like how I picked our guild name by throwing a dart at a piece of paper with multiple choices on it?

[Xadion]

How does Plan C do this...?

Because any 'plan' that does not just hand out mobs and loot like a vending machine is too much competition for them. I had hoped some 'B' guilds would stand up and realize their potential. I am looking at you again AG, my Veeshan pride and knowing what you guys where lend me to believe in you guys. I will gladly join AG on any one of my raiding characters and give any advice, strats etc. That I can to help you guys grow.

I will give some more of my 'leet info' tomorrow when I get on a comp and not my phone. But to tease, TMO wants people to compete with...and 'the shitted up raid scene' was not one guilds doing...well it kinda was, just kinda like how Macs sleeper got woken, hint there folks...not TMO.

[Mezzmur]

How does Plan C do this...?

Because people comment and hate on the perceived rather than the actual.

I've explained numerous times that the 10/20 plan gave more mobs per guild than divinity's. However, 10 days of top mobs isn't enough, must be even Steven.

[Clark]

On live there was never 6-8 guilds capable of killing the endgame content at one time. At best the most populated servers had maybe 3 on the bleeding edge with the rest spread out in past expansions.

Unfortunately, no proposal can fix what's broken with this situation.

On live there was never 6-8 guilds capable of killing the endgame content at one time. At best the most populated servers had maybe 3 on the bleeding edge with the rest spread out in past expansions.

Unfortunately, no proposal can fix what's broken with this situation.

[Arteker]

in some servers it happened .

Can recall when AB was formed up : darkwind, mortalis, ragyn fury, justice divine,shadows of doom(this one laged abit but later rised) prety much raided for years for dominance , albeit luclin age +

[Xadion]

indeed, Veeshan had a good number of tier 1, or 2 if you count FoH by themselves. But yes...that was mostly Velious and beyond when the world could support it. Velious will fix it naturally (sans variance etc) and even more when CT 2.0 and Hate 2nd floor are released.

[SwordNboard]

Since there are more raid-capable guilds and level 60s due to the extended Kunark timeline, they just need to increase raid spawns to multiple times per week. Say there are 9 raid guilds. Have raid targets spawn 3-4 times per week, but you cannot kill the same target more than once per week. That leaves competition in, and rotations out. Any newer guild breaking in to the raid scene could be investigated as being an alt guild. With this many mobs to guilds, you could still have guilds that come out dry from competing and losing targets.

[W8Gamer]

Question: what mobs do you absolutely need for your main?

First off, let me start by saying NO ONE NEEDS anything on this game. We all WANT something for our mains, but nothing is as imperative as NEEDING it. With that said, let's see what all I want for my main:

Trakanon: Manna Robe (Rarely drops)
VS: Ancient Shissar Guantlets (NEVER FUCKING DROPS)
CT: Darkwood trunk, AoN (AoN NEVER FUCKING DROPS)
Inny: Necromancer book (Rarely drops)
Vox/Naggy and any other outdoor dragon: Kavruul's Mystical Pouch (I never win :( )

Now that's me and I've been in TMO since August. Now, there were at least 2 other people that joined when I joined and since then there have been at the least 10 more that have joined. So, if I need shit, I can almost guarantee they do as well, but please, continue to tell us how our mains don't need anything else from these raids mobs and the only reason we are raiding is to gear our alts up and bully everyone else from getting gear.

[radditsu]

First off, let me start by saying NO ONE NEEDS anything on this game. We all WANT something for our mains, but nothing is as imperative as NEEDING it. With that said, let's see what all I want for my main:

Trakanon: Manna Robe (Rarely drops)
VS: Ancient Shissar Guantlets (NEVER FUCKING DROPS)
CT: Darkwood trunk, AoN (AoN NEVER FUCKING DROPS)
Inny: Necromancer book (Rarely drops)
Vox/Naggy and any other outdoor dragon: Kavruul's Mystical Pouch (I never win :( )

Now that's me and I've been in TMO since August. Now, there were at least 2 other people that joined when I joined and since then there have been at the least 10 more that have joined. So, if I need shit, I can almost guarantee they do as well, but please, continue to tell us how our mains don't need anything else from these raids mobs and the only reason we are raiding is to gear our alts up and bully everyone else from getting gear.

Poor guy.

How about everyone in most guilds that got nada, zip, zero, zilch, since august.

[Elmarnieh]

Let me ask you why you need to compete on a emulated server of a 14 year old game? Do you not have enough competition in your life? I mean do you want a medal for beating 14 year old content for years on a server with 1k people on it usually? If your enjoy "competing" in p99 i really just feel sad for you.

Because the competition makes the win far better.

Tell me why you need to do anything on a 14 year old game or taking down mobs where the strategy has been PERFECTED over that time and is known by all?


Its not competing against the content that is fun or challenging, its competing against other humans to get to the content that is fun and challenging.

[W8Gamer]

Poor guy.

How about everyone in most guilds that got nada, zip, zero, zilch, since august.

I'm not saying poor me. I ask for no pity, I'm just killing the same tired argument that TMO doesn't need anything for their mains.

In fact, grats me! I came to back to the server in June, lvl 24 and naked from a rotting corpse. By August, I was lvl 60 and geared enough for TMO to allow me to app. I wanted something. Guess what I did? Oh, I just put forth some effort and worked to achieve my goal. Too bad most don't seem to have the drive I do. With a full time job, a wife and kid, and still doing other recreations such as playing sports with my friends and hitting the gym every day for an hour or 2 no less. How do I do it?!!? I MUST be a wizard.

[radditsu]

I'm not saying poor me. I ask for no pity, I'm just killing the same tired argument that TMO doesn't need anything for their mains.

In fact, grats me! I came to back to the server in June, lvl 24 and naked from a rotting corpse. By August, I was lvl 60 and geared enough for TMO to allow me to app. I wanted something. Guess what I did? Oh, I just put forth some effort and worked to achieve my goal. Too bad most don't seem to have the drive I do. With a full time job, a wife and kid, and still doing other recreations such as playing sports with my friends and hitting the gym every day for an hour or 2 no less. How do I do it?!!? I MUST be a wizard.

You know it doesnt make you special? None of these pixels matter. Putting a ton of "effort" in this game is meaningless as your existence.


But good job getting into TMO!

[W8Gamer]

You know it doesnt make you special? None of these pixels matter. Putting a ton of "effort" in this game is meaningless as your existence.


But good job getting into TMO!

I agree with you 100%. None of my EQ achievements make me special. However, that was not the purpose of my post. The purpose of both my posts was to kill the same tired arguments I hear about how TMO doesn't need anything for their mains and also how not everyone can be "basement dwelling no-lifes" like most of us in TMO. And since you provided no kind of argument or rebuttle and resulted into belittling me in some fashion, I can only assume my post did exactly what I intended. In other words, I think I won this round of forumquest? I dunno, I don't do this often.

[Barkingturtle]

Because the competition makes the win far better.

Tell me why you need to do anything on a 14 year old game or taking down mobs where the strategy has been PERFECTED over that time and is known by all?


Its not competing against the content that is fun or challenging, its competing against other humans to get to the content that is fun and challenging.

May of us aren't here in search of competition nor challenge. Personally, I play P99 and it's like reading an old book. It is an exercise in nostalgia. Similarly, I do not play Zelda with the intent to dominate its content. I am not running fast as I can through Marioland. I am sitting down and getting reacquainted with an old friend.

The question is: why is this the arena you've selected to feel a sense of accomplishment? Frankly, any victory won on P99 is likely to be a Pyrrhic one.

[Elmarnieh]

You know it doesnt make you special? None of these pixels matter. Putting a ton of "effort" in this game is meaningless as your existence.


But good job getting into TMO!

Existence is as meaningless as your opinion of others or what they do with their time.

Nihilism is never a productive outlook.

[Elmarnieh]

May of us aren't here in search of competition nor challenge. Personally, I play P99 and it's like reading an old book. It is an exercise in nostalgia. Similarly, I do not play Zelda with the intent to dominate its content. I am not running fast as I can through Marioland. I am sitting down and getting reacquainted with an old friend.

The question is: why is this the arena you've selected to feel a sense of accomplishment? Frankly, any victory won on P99 is likely to be a Pyrrhic one.

False premise. It isn't the content that is a challenge its the competition to the content agaisnt other humans.

False premise. It may not be a sense of accomplishment that is felt.

As to why it is an arena I choose to enjoy to spend my time - any answer I give is as valid as your enjoyment of reliving it like an old book as both are personally subjective.

[falkun]

False premise. It isn't the content that is a challenge its the competition to the content agaisnt other humans.
Emphasis mine.

This is why R99 exists. I've even heard you can attack the other humans over there. If you really wanted the challenge of mobilizing, log out in Qeynos every time.

[Arteker]

You know it doesnt make you special? None of these pixels matter. Putting a ton of "effort" in this game is meaningless as your existence.


But good job getting into TMO!

first of rad i think how everyone enjoy his existence is their own bussynes ,and no one should complain how they spend his time in a game and how they enjoy it while it dont break some rules .

there is people who pays shit tons of rl money for shit like a tiger woods golf stick and other things someone may thing is stupid,

its their time their money , while they dont club you with the stick its their own bussynes imo.

who give u a morality superiority to claim whatever u think is better over lestet decission to raid to achieve loots wich would make his play time better for him.

Because if he wanted it he would have to earn and figth for it , no one would gift it to him.


in everquest if u wanted xx item either u raid or eithe r u buyed it or either u camped it, im talking raid goods or any item in general.

do you see alot of people in lower guk figthing to get in groups for a fbss chance like in live ? no u see most times a single dude farming it.

whats is that different of raidin? because u do it with more people than the effort of a singl e dude spendin hours and hours camping the same shit and blocking other people from gettin it?.


Thats everquest man .
thats the reason slowly everquest turned most shit no drop so people would need to raid and earn their shit instead to farm shit and bazaar forever .

[Barkingturtle]

False premise. It isn't the content that is a challenge its the competition to the content agaisnt other humans.

False premise. It may not be a sense of accomplishment that is felt.

As to why it is an arena I choose to enjoy to spend my time - any answer I give is as valid as your enjoyment of reliving it like an old book as both are personally subjective.

So you're competing, but not for a sense of accomplishment? Are you competing merely to deny others their gratification?

Not sure my mind is limber enough for your mental gymnastics, but feel free to turn some more cartwheels.

And I didn't ask why it's an arena in which you "spend your time". I asked why you find it a suitable outlet for your competitiveness. I can understand why people want to play on Project99, but I can't imagine why anyone would yearn to prove they're the best at playing Project99.

[radditsu]

first of rad i think how everyone enjoy his existence is their own bussynes ,and no one should complain how they spend his time in a game and how they enjoy it while it dont break some rules .

there is people who pays shit tons of rl money for shit like a tiger woods golf stick and other things someone may thing is stupid,

its their time their money , while they dont club you with the stick its their own bussynes imo.

who give u a morality superiority to claim whatever u think is better over lestet decission to raid to achieve loots wich would make his play time better for him.

Because if he wanted it he would have to earn and figth for it , no one would gift it to him.


in everquest if u wanted xx item either u raid or eithe r u buyed it or either u camped it, im talking raid goods or any item in general.

do you see alot of people in lower guk figthing to get in groups for a fbss chance like in live ? no u see most times a single dude farming it.

whats is that different of raidin? because u do it with more people than the effort of a singl e dude spendin hours and hours camping the same shit and blocking other people from gettin it?.


Thats everquest man .
thats the reason slowly everquest turned most shit no drop so people would need to raid and earn their shit instead to farm shit and bazaar forever .

I have no idea what you are trying to say:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW27kyh7PVM

[Arteker]

Emphasis mine.

This is why R99 exists. I've even heard you can attack the other humans over there. If you really wanted the challenge of mobilizing, log out in Qeynos every time.

well honestly DJ some of my long eq career disguting shit have happened into this server .

when someone of my guild coldblooded pic in rnf to mock her i found it a realy shitty thing and prety much soemthing only a coward and a moron would do.


i want a fair competition btw guilds not it going to rl and other no ingame stuff.

sure u can hate xxx player for his actions in game xxxx but realy u need to get rl on it?.


i think p99 need a tabula rasa scenario witha total rebuild of raidin rules , and server stanced towards it .

then pherhaps we can figure a raid schedule but till the guilds can elarn to exit together without bashing and instead trying to get some fun racin in a civilized way this will not happen.

[Arteker]

I have no idea what you are trying to say:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW27kyh7PVM

dont worry im used to it .

[Xadion]

andro, just post everything in Spanish and let them google translate it if they cannot use basic reading skills to understand your posts.

[falkun]

Wonderful, you hate that coldblooded's RL pic was dragged through RNF. YET YOU DID NOTHING ABOUT IT. No one from TMO was guild removed or otherwise penalized. The pic came down, that ONE forum account received a ban, and TMO kept on keeping on. That reminds me of a quote, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." You did nothing. Hate the action all you want, you did nothing about it. As your guild FTE snipes and wins loot with fewer than 5 people on the aggro list, you do nothing. As your guild initiates Fear DT cycles, without engaging Draco or CT, you collect loot and do nothing. If you want the toxic raid scene to change, STOP doing nothing. I don't give a shit about how you feel about what your guild does, I've seen you DO NOTHING to stop them from doing it again. Again to the quotes, "Actions speak louder than words."

[radditsu]

andro, just post everything in Spanish and let them google translate it if they cannot use basic reading skills to understand your posts.

I was making a punctuation joke. I understood completely what he was trying to say.

Joke, fun. Happy. Great.

[Xadion]

Wonderful, you hate that coldblooded's RL pic was dragged through RNF. YET YOU DID NOTHING ABOUT IT. No one from TMO was guild removed or otherwise penalized. The pic came down, that ONE forum account received a ban, and TMO kept on keeping on. That reminds me of a quote, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." You did nothing. Hate the action all you want, you did nothing about it. As your guild FTE snipes and wins loot with fewer than 5 people on the aggro list, you do nothing. As your guild initiates Fear DT cycles, without engaging Draco or CT, you collect loot and do nothing. If you want the toxic raid scene to change, STOP doing nothing. I don't give a shit about how you feel about what your guild does, I've seen you DO NOTHING to stop them from doing it again.

Andro himself has stood up for things in our guild forums many times, as have I and others. In DA there was a stay out of RNF understanding, and while there where still anon accounts that posted the general stance was to leave it alone... Come the merge with TMO and their rise in the raid scene they did not have the same rule or understanding... And if you don't understand that the typical RNF people are their own thing and never really representative of a group, well sorry heh. I hope Zagum as our new leader will enact RNF policy, there is rarely a reason to start a flame crusade in RNF.

[falkun]

As an outsider looking in, you can see my point, Xadion. I'm not saying I need to look inside, but if it keeps happening, it still appears that whatever TMO's white knights are fighting for internally is not as important as pixels. Maybe that will change with Zagum, and I hope it does, but all I have to look at are TMO's actions of the last two+ years.

[Arteker]

Wonderful, you hate that coldblooded's RL pic was dragged through RNF. YET YOU DID NOTHING ABOUT IT. No one from TMO was guild removed or otherwise penalized. The pic came down, that ONE forum account received a ban, and TMO kept on keeping on. That reminds me of a quote, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." You did nothing. Hate the action all you want, you did nothing about it. As your guild FTE snipes and wins loot with fewer than 5 people on the aggro list, you do nothing. As your guild initiates Fear DT cycles, without engaging Draco or CT, you collect loot and do nothing. If you want the toxic raid scene to change, STOP doing nothing. I don't give a shit about how you feel about what your guild does, I've seen you DO NOTHING to stop them from doing it again.

im a regular member of my guild i dont have power but if u stop to ask any of tmo would reply i never shut up my mouth about what i though was wrong. and yes i got laughed alot or get called mexican by people in my own guild and i unleashed a shit storm about the coldbloded pic.

i apologized to her in game when she still played not much i could do either,

Settin ct cycles? i never did but i have seen every raider guild doing it.
FTE snipes? till fte shouts where implemented every guild did it .
there was nothing to be done? back in the day i was one of the main supporters of the infamous tmo endangered species attemp to free mobs for the server, after the total failure of such thing people like me xasten elethia and many others tried to change things .

When BDA ksed my monk epic i was furious yet i did soemthing agaisnt bda guild ? i didint , i played regular in this server with alot of people from every guild and never ever let my tmo tag affect them by being a nice group member .

You amongs others should remember i would not left a hs group for raid vp when my paladin was ur tank do you remember it? i remember before u even got bda taged .

When loraen asked me and if u thrust me asked me what i though about TMO falling over other guild actions i reply to him TMO would fall over their own member actions,

and i was rigth .

like you probably have in bda friends i have them in tmo , i joined them before the emrge with dark ascension i have watched tmo evolution for years . and others guild aswell .

sure im just a regular member who played this server for 4 years wich lvled several chracter wich never got banned and never was involved in anything if dont count making sexual jokes about alien sperm but u know what?.

Being tmo or not when someone asked me for help i always give them , yet u judge me on the basic of my guild tag , no because my actions in game.


and sadly generalize about people based in religion , skin colour politic afilition instead for their acts as individuals still happen alla round the world.

[falkun]

Now we're just escalating for the hell of it, my accusations and you defending yourself. As I said, I do not see what you've done behind TMO's boards, nor do I need to. I'm glad you act as a voice of reason for TMO. I will stop accusing *you* of not acting, but until I see wholesale changes from TMO, my opinion is based on passed actions. TMO's first action to show how they've changed can be these negotiations.

[Arteker]

Now we're just escalating for the hell of it, my accusations and you defending yourself. As I said, I do not see what you've done behind TMO's boards, nor do I need to. I'm glad you act as a voice of reason for TMO. I will stop accusing *you* of not acting, but until I see wholesale changes from TMO, my opinion is based on passed actions. TMO's first action to show how they've changed can be these negotiations.

well tmo is in a transition moment , once we figured all it i cana ctualy give u a solid opinion.

sadly or not i will keep with what xadion said, to much kunark to few mobs and in general to much forumquest.

as you notice my english is shit and i rather show things in game .

i just can hope in a future velious would offer more content to players than bicker about ec rmt and petty raidin issues .

[heazels]

reading the responses from most of the 'B' guilds it seems clear they have no desire to compete, push forward, strive to be better and advance. They just want mobs handed to them, they will only think of their handed mobs, no thought of working and striving forward and upward... Nope just gimmy my rotation mobs k thanks drive through

they only look at their given on a plate number of mobs, not 'oh if we use the advantages worked in the system we can advance and grow our guild!'

their reason why all this 'CHANGE' needed to happen is because they can't compete or do anything they need help! They get offered help, and they say the truth...not help, handouts are wanted...and now seemingly demanded.

its kind of sad...

Again this had been said to you 1000 times. Yo play your own form of everquest, that you are playing against yourself. EQ has never been about being camped out at a spawn waiting for a text message to log in and zerg it. Its like playing angry birds on god mode and you always win. Racequest is not a real game.

[falkun]

Just because a mob is spawned does not mean you kill it. Even TMO still wipes to Severilious, who even the "lowly" BDA and Divinity can kill. Gorenaire is hard enough (with crummy enough loot) for TMO that it's the first mob they offered for the "endangered species" list. Your argument that mobs not engaged within 5 minutes of spawning equals handouts is hollow. If mobs are handouts, then TMO's been getting handouts from the rest of the server for the last two years, especially in the 50+% of cases where no one raced you for the engage.

[YendorLootmonkey]

im a regular member of my guild i dont have power

You have the power to /guildremove yourself from the very same toxic element that drug Coldblooded's RL pic through the mud. Same power that Xasten and Elethia have. But you guys don't. You can stir up shit in the TMO forums about the great injustices all you want while they laugh at you... yet you still stay.

Do not come here now and say you had the power to do nothing about it. You could have removed your association with them and found a better guild that didnt stoop to those levels.

[Xadion]

You have the power to /guildremove yourself from the very same toxic element that drug Coldblooded's RL pic through the mud. Same power that Xasten and Elethia have. But you guys don't. You can stir up shit in the TMO forums about the great injustices all you want while they laugh at you... yet you still stay.

Do not come here now and say you had the power to do nothing about it. You could have removed your association with them and found a better guild that didnt stoop to those levels.

Yendor seriously do not come I here and lecture people and be all white knighty about leave your guild, stake a stand! BDA, VD, IB, TR, FE, Fishbait, DA, Div, etctectec are ALL far from innocent in a TON of shit. Get you and your shovel back to RNF. And there was a post of yours I was going to quote in another thread and do a DosEques meme 'I don't always agree with Yendor posts, but when I do...' I just haven't been on a comp yet to make it heh. Still on my phone :)

[Messianic]

It's not white knighting to point out that someone chose to associate with people, despite supposedly disagreeing with their wrong actions, likely because they had a better shot at loot by staying.

[Xadion]

Do you quit your job if a coworker is an asshat? Do you jump the country when you find out a politician is a crook? If you say yes, then you all should have left your own respective guilds many times over.

but normal people say no, and stay to try and make things better or to be with the good players they are friends with.

[Arteker]

You have the power to /guildremove yourself from the very same toxic element that drug Coldblooded's RL pic through the mud. Same power that Xasten and Elethia have. But you guys don't. You can stir up shit in the TMO forums about the great injustices all you want while they laugh at you... yet you still stay.

Do not come here now and say you had the power to do nothing about it. You could have removed your association with them and found a better guild that didnt stoop to those levels.

you could have said the same when VD was the most caugth mq shoeq caugth guild with over 100 players got shafted.

what was done then yendor?.

[YendorLootmonkey]

I don't believe VD or BDA are on trial here as shitting up the raid scene, are they? I'm not the one sitting here saying "I don't like what my guild did... I spoke out against it and they laughed at me... and that was the best I could do" am I? I am merely demonstrating to you that you DID have the power to do something about it (guildremove) and chose not to.

Believe me... if my guild was responsible for shitting up the raid scene and considered the douchebags of the server, I would resign my membership.

[Arteker]

I don't believe VD or BDA are on trial here as shitting up the raid scene, are they?

as i recall VD was aswell raid suspended . tmo wasnt raid suspended by breaking the law but for the bickering petition quest ensured, during competition .(atleast this last time has been other where yes we have been suspended for doing it).

im not here to defend tmo raid conduit , and much less to you , wich in words of many vd back in the day just showed to get gifts from ib .
oh yess yendor i could post many historys of you from your vd days but it doesnt worth it .

i want a fair competition server for tmo for ib for bda for fe for azure guard for a team for europa .

what i dont like are two things petition quest and how guild rivalitys where made back in the day.
i know u like to blame tmo for all ur deeds but as far im concerned i blame the server in general for not being able to play nice each to other.

this server isnt perfect either by community or technicaly but is the closest thing we have to a classic server .

and since this collect alot of people from different servers each have a different idea of how to set it up.
its impossible to make a 100% server happynes effect for every person of the server .

[Hitpoint]

I don't believe VD or BDA are on trial here as shitting up the raid scene, are they?

You might be soon.

[Arteker]

I don't believe VD or BDA are on trial here as shitting up the raid scene, are they? I'm not the one sitting here saying "I don't like what my guild did... I spoke out against it and they laughed at me... and that was the best I could do" am I? I am merely demonstrating to you that you DID have the power to do something about it (guildremove) and chose not to.

Believe me... if my guild was responsible for shitting up the raid scene and considered the douchebags of the server, I would resign my membership.

yet you chose back in the day the idea to support TR /ib when actualy they started to lose ground to TMO. and u did for one single reason pixels .

i dont deny people who joined tmo wanted the easiest way to get pixels , unlike you i dont believe in being a hypocrite.

would have been things different if velious was released 1 year ago ? very probably but it wasnt sadly for the server in general.

[Xadion]

I don't believe VD or BDA are on trial here as shitting up the raid scene, are they? I'm not the one sitting here saying "I don't like what my guild did... I spoke out against it and they laughed at me... and that was the best I could do" am I?

Believe me... if my guild was responsible for shitting up the raid scene and considered the douchebags of the server, I would resign my membership.

You all shitted up the raid scene just as much as any of the other guilds, harboring the known VD etc. Etc.

and what we are saying is you are saying we should have jumped ship in protest for whatever reason, and we are saying the same thing back at you. Stop showing your true RNF roots out here in server chat.

we all need to look at what can be improved, modified and move forward and enjoy the server and I for one am giddy for Velious.

[YendorLootmonkey]

oh yess yendor i could post many historys of you from your vd days but it doesnt worth it .

Go right ahead... I'm clean. What have you got?

Again this wasn't about blaming a particular guild... this was directly addressing your apologetic "woe is me, I told them it was wrong, but I had no power to do anything!" rhetoric in this thread. If you were that strongly against it, you had the power to guildremove.

Nothing more, nothing less. Not about my past, Vesica Dei's past, nothing more than merely proving your assertion wrong that there was nothing you could do while your guild did things you felt were wrong.

Mob mentality and Internet anonymity certainly enables a lot of things to happen.

[YendorLootmonkey]

You all shitted up the raid scene just as much as any of the other guilds, harboring the known VD etc. Etc.

Shitting up the raid scene how?

Giving you a taste of your own medicine in VP by training you guys the same way you trained others? By memblurring dragons the same way you memblurred Talendor on us?

You cried to staff every time we actually rolled up our sleeves to give you your competition. If that is "shitting up the raid server", well you got your wish and chased VD off... then enjoyed VP and other high priority targets largely uncontested for over a year wondering "whars teh compuhtitionz??" Talk about logging in for your handouts.

[Arteker]

Go right ahead... I'm clean. What have you got?

Again this wasn't about blaming a particular guild... this was directly addressing your apologetic "woe is me, I told them it was wrong, but I had no power to do anything!" rhetoric in this thread. If you were that strongly against it, you had the power to guildremove.

Nothing more, nothing less. Not about my past, Vesica Dei's past, nothing more than merely proving your assertion wrong that there was nothing you could do while your guild did things you felt were wrong.

Mob mentality and Internet anonymity certainly enables a lot of things to happen.
i apologized to coldbloded i didint apoligized for nada because there isnt nothing i need to apologize in game .
as you name vd as a dead guild , well yes, but you will not spin the fact back in the day u tried the very same thing and it didint worked for you .
i have friends in tmo , i enjoy to play with them yet because some people in my guild i have to guild disband?.
you sounds like the classical dude claiming every german was a nazi in 2 ww.

Can you prove im wrong about what i said about your past? should i even load up my chat with cold and kmorrax being in the shame group when some idiot posted her pic?.

[YendorLootmonkey]

yet you chose back in the day the idea to support TR /ib when actualy they started to lose ground to TMO. and u did for one single reason pixels

Fun fact: The single reason was to keep TMO from rolling over the entire server. Except we lost. And look what happened...

[Arteker]

Shitting up the raid scene how?

Giving you a taste of your own medicine in VP by training you guys the same way you trained others? By memblurring dragons the same way you memblurred Talendor on us?

You cried to staff every time we actually rolled up our sleeves to give you your competition. If that is "shitting up the raid server", well you got your wish and chased VD off... then enjoyed VP and other high priority targets largely uncontested for over a year wondering "whars teh compuhtitionz??" Talk about logging in for your handouts.

Vp was train ground before any vd member have even a single key you want to prove im wrong?.
when ib rmt the shit out the server and let VD to defend for himself ur guild crumbled was it fault of tmo? you prety much are .
and wich is worse u seems to forget actualy vd was the one gettin suspended over memblurring dragons , tmo did once. qadosx and got suspended .

[Arteker]

Fun fact: The single reason was to keep TMO from rolling over the entire server. Except we lost. And look what happened...

how tmo would be rolling all over the server?. TR rolled the server back them , tmo spend months trying to scratch mobs of TR, till most of their members where ready and shape to even put a figth agaisnt TR.

many DA and even tmo players left for TR as they saw it as the winnin side. u guys joined TR/ib after vp release because ib was losing members and couldnt compete anymore with tmo .

Yet tmo wasnt yet the top dog the server it was shared with ib .

[YendorLootmonkey]

Vp was train ground before any vd member have even a single key you want to prove im wrong?.
when ib rmt the shit out the server and let VD to defend for himself ur guild crumbled was it fault of tmo? you prety much are .
and wich is worse u seems to forget actualy vd was the one gettin suspended over memblurring dragons , tmo did once. qadosx and got suspended .

Trying very hard to understand your grammar, but yes I understand VP was okay for trains after the TR/TMO rotation ended. Which is why it was extremely hypocritical for TMO to cry about it when VD went in to give them a taste of their own medicine by sending in a train squad to interfere with your VP raid. Same hypocrisy with the memblurring. Anything "dirty" VD did to TMO was in direct retaliation for something TMO did to us. I don't recall VD being suspended for memblurring... we were simply told to stop and then we stopped. I fully admit I could be remembering that wrong.

My only hope is that the new leadership of TMO doesn't let things devolve into the sorts of things we are discussing just because "lol, extreme competition". It hurts the entire server.

[Arteker]

why u dissapeared aswell when ur partner guild was found to have mass rmt and u have kinsawt giggling about how much money he made thanks to p99 and they where leaving for eqmac?.
i dont recall u ever saying anything when vd was found to be associated with a rmt guild, u did what u did always, dissapear, and come back when u have a chance to rnf and cry.

i can respect VD players who joined bda, and the effort they did to break tmo dominance and i thank FE and the new ib to have challanged tmo . we never should have been uncontested for long time.


i agree it ended hurting raid life in general and making a hell of the staff with guild figthing and forum quest for loot .

looking into future i hope we can find a better for all guilds in the server , and take this as a chance to build soemthing better than what we have going on for last 3 years.

[Arteker]

Trying very hard to understand your grammar, but yes I understand VP was okay for trains after the TR/TMO rotation ended. Which is why it was extremely hypocritical for TMO to cry about it when VD went in to give them a taste of their own medicine by sending in a train squad to interfere with your VP raid. Same hypocrisy with the memblurring. Anything "dirty" VD did to TMO was in direct retaliation for something TMO did to us. I don't recall VD being suspended for memblurring... we were simply told to stop and then we stopped. I fully admit I could be remembering that wrong.

My only hope is that the new leadership of TMO doesn't let things devolve into the sorts of things we are discussing just because "lol, extreme competition". It hurts the entire server.

i thank you for take ur time and read my post im ESL, and i know it can be difficult for you to understand it.

i hope aswell there is no longer extreme competition /forum/petition quest for pixels.

No guild should have power to dictate over other guilds is what i believe and the fact is i realy hope there is a common ground for please both sides in this mess we are rigth now .

[YendorLootmonkey]

No guild should have power to dictate over other guilds is what i believe and the fact is i realy hope there is a common ground for please both sides in this mess we are rigth now .

I hope for this as well, too! Thank you for acknowledging the issues and understanding. I know there is an expectations gap for both sides but hopefully we can all learn from past mistakes and move forward so we can all go back to having fun :)

[Fael]

Yender, I've seen more shaddy crap come from BDA then any other guild on this server. More vitriol, more hate.

Why don't you guild remove yourself?

People here are so blind from hatred that they can't acknowledge that no guild on this server isn't without defects and people you don't love but learn to live with, etc.

Grow up. This is a part of life within any organization, period.

Dolic

[Xadion]

I hope for this as well, too! Thank you for acknowledging the issues and understanding. I know there is an expectations gap for both sides but hopefully we can all learn from past mistakes and move forward so we can all go back to having fun :)

indeed, and that indeed is in part why I started this discussion after seeing the replies to plan C and how some parties don't want anything but a straight handout, and even once they get some handouts they want them more.

what needs to happen is a reevaluation of the current rules. Proposed changes to said rules, and some discussion. We do not need a system or welfare. Some guilds state they cannot compete, but then when given an advantage to compete they don't want to compete they just want it.

the CS staff had too many petitions, okay I get it... No guild should do first and petition later, such as ninja looting etc etc.

the line of rules must be drawn and properly and equally enforced- THAT is what caused the raid issues that are today.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Yender, I've seen more shaddy crap come from BDA then any other guild on this server. More vitriol, more hate.

Why don't you guild remove yourself?

List of supposed offenses greater than those of TMO, please. Serve it up. Let's go.

[baalzy]

What we have here folks is Walmart vs Costco.

Walmart treats everyone like scum-shit to sell them the crappiest crap they can, but because it falls within the budgets Walmart sets (via the wages they pay), people buy it. Walmart considers themselves kings because their owners pull in 50mil a day thanks to all the hard work their daddy did for them when he built the company.

Costco treats people with respect and pays respectable wages and thinks the Walmart mentality is a disgusting shit-fest and wants no part of it so they treat both their employees and their customers with respect giving low prices and high wages and have been doing so for years and years without ever resorting to the shit Walmart pulls.

Sirken is arguing the world should be dominated by Walmart, but they have to get a $0.25/hour raise as a 'compromise'.

[Xadion]

List of supposed offenses greater than those of TMO, please. Serve it up. Let's go.

There is a fancy quote from The Bible about a stick in your eye and the one in your friends..but I will let andro quote that in the original Greek, or Spanish ;-P as for lists of wrong doings, take that and go to RNF, lets be constructive here.

[YendorLootmonkey]

There is a fancy quote from The Bible about a stick in your eye and the one in your friends..but I will let andro quote that in the original Greek, or Spanish ;-P as for lists of wrong doings, take that and go to RNF, lets be constructive here.

Tell that to Dolic... he's the one insinuating he's got a list of things my guild has done to damage the raid scene on this server more so than TMO without bringing any actual facts. :) I already made nice here and he's taking a bat to the bee hive while covered in pollen.

[Messianic]

What we have here folks is Walmart vs Costco.

Walmart treats everyone like scum-shit to sell them the crappiest crap they can, but because it falls within the budgets Walmart sets (via the wages they pay), people buy it. Walmart considers themselves kings because their owners pull in 50mil a day thanks to all the hard work their daddy did for them when he built the company.

Costco treats people with respect and pays respectable wages and thinks the Walmart mentality is a disgusting shit-fest and wants no part of it so they treat both their employees and their customers with respect giving low prices and high wages and have been doing so for years and years without ever resorting to the shit Walmart pulls.

Sirken is arguing the world should be dominated by Walmart, but they have to get a $0.25/hour raise as a 'compromise'.

This is a really shitty infusion of a subjective politicized view of economics into an error-filled understanding of how retailers function applied to the politics of a video game.

Painful to read.