Mobs per guild with regards to a rotation

[Argh]

I see the number 9 or 10 used to calculate the mobs per guild numbers used in both non rotation proposals and rotation proposals. That number is probably accurate with regards to a system in which guilds are still required to compete in the traditional system. However, in the context of a rotation with a long grace period (8 hours?) that number is incredibly inaccurate and misleading when it comes to mobs per guild for rotations.

The biggest difference between what is necessary in a FFA competition and a rotation is that guild member numbers in FFA are numbers of raiders at the span of window hours, whereas in a rotation you know what days you will be raiding and with a long grace period are able to be near max numbers for every target. This means tertiary guilds in a competitive system, should make the cut in a rotation system.

Most citations of guilds killing raid mobs in a rotation include:

TMO
IB
FE
BDA
Taken
A-team
Europa
Divinity
Azure guard
Doljabronis

However, this list should also be expanded to include:

Supremacy
Knights who say Ni
Just a Phase
Indignation
Mari Kita
The alliance

I've raided with or have done encounters with most of these guilds and they are more than capable of downing any/most of the mobs in available in the rotation when given a clear shot with no competition and a huge grace period, little to no tracking required, and have adequate numbers at full force.

I've seen the number of kills per guild in a 35/35 mob split being represented as hovering around 5. This number is more accurately 2.69 if these guilds who should be added are Given rotation slots. This drastically reduces the mobs per guild in a rotation.

[Erati]

2.69 > 0

/thread

[Swish]

+ Avatars of Discord

[Splorf22]

The suggested rule was that any guild that can kill the Spiroc Lord is added to the rotation. I do not believe any of your guilds can, but I would not mind being proven wrong.

[mitic]

not classic

[Argh]

The suggested rule was that any guild that can kill the Spiroc Lord is added to the rotation. I do not believe any of your guilds can, but I would not mind being proven wrong.

The problem with that is that there is already another rotation blocking these guilds from sky (see: lord bob). Unless there is a slot left open solely for the purpose of killin the spiroc lord for admittance into the rotation, I see this as a huge arbitrary barrier to entry that unilaterally favors the guilds currently on the sky rotation.

I think any requirements for entry imposed on these guilds would be without merit seeing as they've been locked out of negotiations and have been told to voice their opinions through a proxy.

[falkun]

And yet the agreement has provisions for this:
Current guilds in the sky rotation are asked to make reasonable accommodations to allow a guild to get situated on isle 5 for SL attempts if they would like to enter the rotation. This could include leaving a Spiroc Lord up and helping a guild start a summon chain to isle 5 (if clear) or isle 4 (if isle 5 is not clear).

From here: http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133449

[Splorf22]

The problem with that is that there is already another rotation blocking these guilds from sky (see: lord bob). Unless there is a slot left open solely for the purpose of killin the spiroc lord for admittance into the rotation, I see this as a huge arbitrary barrier to entry that unilaterally favors the guilds currently on the sky rotation.

I think any requirements for entry imposed on these guilds would be without merit seeing as they've been locked out of negotiations and have been told to voice their opinions through a proxy.

Have you read Divinity's plan? It specifically covers this: if you want to take a shot at the spiroc lord, ask the guild currently clearing sky to help get you up to 5. Sure you'll have to pay 50p each for coffins, but that's not a huge problem. And the Spiroc Lord repops immediately if the guardian is up, so it costs the active guild nothing.

And some subset of the smaller guilds wanted to band together to get a sufficient force, I don't think anyone would have a problem with this either.

I really don't think we are trying to screw you guys here.

[Valoril]

Have you read Divinity's plan? It specifically covers this: if you want to take a shot at the spiroc lord, ask the guild currently clearing sky to help get you up to 5. Sure you'll have to pay 50p each for coffins, but that's not a huge problem. And the Spiroc Lord repops immediately if the guardian is up, so it costs the active guild nothing.

And some subset of the smaller guilds wanted to band together to get a sufficient force, I don't think anyone would have a problem with this either.

I am also 99% sure that it'd be no problem. In the list of the guilds above (BDA, Taken, A-team, Europa, Divinity, Azure guard) I don't see a single one that would IMHO try to be a bastard and disrupt an attempt.
On the contrary, I could rather imagine that most if not all would help with the attempt if desired.

[Swish]

not classic

Locking down mobs for plat and not letting some classes get their epics?

Not classic either.

...so excuse the proposal threads ;)

[JerSar]

Locking down mobs for plat and not letting some classes get their epics?

Not classic either.

...so excuse the proposal threads ;)

Classic is an arbitrary in regards to all of this, I have determined that the dude saying it's not classic is a troll and therefore ignoring him.

[Argh]

The suggested rule was that any guild that can kill the Spiroc Lord is added to the rotation. I do not believe any of your guilds can, but I would not mind being proven wrong.

Have you read Divinity's plan? It specifically covers this: if you want to take a shot at the spiroc lord, ask the guild currently clearing sky to help get you up to 5. Sure you'll have to pay 50p each for coffins, but that's not a huge problem. And the Spiroc Lord repops immediately if the guardian is up, so it costs the active guild nothing.

And some subset of the smaller guilds wanted to band together to get a sufficient force, I don't think anyone would have a problem with this either.

I really don't think we are trying to screw you guys here.

My error on not seeing the specific provision aimed at aiding in spiroc lord attempts, however, the point of this point wasn't at all aimed at discussing the entry process rather how drastic the real number of mobs per guilds differs from the ones being promoted, and how that should effect the sustainability of a rotation in both the short term and the long term.

[Erati]

2.69 > 0

/thread

[falkun]

The tier2 guilds are committed to rotating whatever mobs they are allotted. None of them want the "competition" this server breeds. If mobs get imperceptibly thin, tier2 can renegotiate amongst themselves. On the upside, having a solid foundation in place when Velious is released means when raid content increases by 2-5 times, then the transition will be easier and we won't all be raid suspended as Velious is released while we negotiate new terms.

[-Catherin-]

A guild that does not want to continue to play under the restrictions of Tier2 can always be requested to be moved up to Tier 1... Im sure tier 1 would welcome the "competition"

Everyone that is currently labled as tier 2 are probably happy they are going to be able to see any raid targets at all now, compared to before where they did not. The upper end Tier 2 guilds are more than happy to concede the extra targets they "may" have gotten in a less restrictive agreement. This is because under the tier 2 playstyle, even though we may see a few less targets in the higher end of tier 2, we will finally see some targets that we never got to see in the previous abusive environment. (AKA Venril Sathir, Trakanon, and Cazic Thule)

I see tier 1 and tier 2 as different playstyles, not different ranks.

[Swish]

The tier2 guilds are committed to rotating whatever mobs they are allotted. None of them want the "competition" this server breeds. If mobs get imperceptibly thin, tier2 can renegotiate amongst themselves. On the upside, having a solid foundation in place when Velious is released means when raid content increases by 2-5 times, then the transition will be easier and we won't all be raid suspended as Velious is released while we negotiate new terms.

Some guilds on tier 2 might end up doubling up, depending how the server's population changes. Or have a minimum roster to be considered as a tier 2 guild.

If I start < Kittens in Mittens > with 10 or so friends and demand to be put on tier 2, I wouldn't expect to be taken seriously as I'd need help from players in other guilds (or guildless players) to get a target down.

[Clark]

This isn't Custom99.

[Pan]

This isn't Custom99.

But it IS Rogean's world and I think we'd all do well to remember that - and act a little less entitled about being guests here.

[Mezzmur]

A guild that does not want to continue to play under the restrictions of Tier2 can always be requested to be moved up to Tier 1... Im sure tier 1 would welcome the "competition"

Everyone that is currently labled as tier 2 are probably happy they are going to be able to see any raid targets at all now, compared to before where they did not. The upper end Tier 2 guilds are more than happy to concede the extra targets they "may" have gotten in a less restrictive agreement. This is because under the tier 2 playstyle, even though we may see a few less targets in the higher end of tier 2, we will finally see some targets that we never got to see in the previous abusive environment. (AKA Venril Sathir, Trakanon, and Cazic Thule)

I see tier 1 and tier 2 as different playstyles, not different ranks.

The plan i was proposing always has FFA mobs throughout the month that require no participation in rotation.