Log in

View Full Version : More help for the staff from the greatest server of all time, Vallon Zek


Aenor
01-02-2014, 05:33 AM
The staff has made Loot n' Scoot, a player-created and -enforced policy that originated on Vallon Zek, official server policy. On behalf of the Veterans of Vallon Zek, I would like to thank the staff for this tacit acknowledgement that Vallon Zek was the greatest server in the history of online gaming. We've always known this to be the case, and we appreciate your assistance in getting the word out.

With that in mind, what follows are more ideas that were forged in the crucible of greatness. This is my most-developed proposal for a teams ruleset. The staff has assured us repeatedly that teams is coming, in spite of any temporary delays. You, gentle readers, may be assured that I will not let this fact slip your minds.

What follows is Rep Yo City 3.0. A city-based team server, which the staff has stated is under consideration, would create an experience closer to the race war ruleset than the Sullon Zek ruleset. Why is this important? Please see the wise words of Sirken in my signature. Three hard-coded teams created the Sullon Zek mentality, which our CSR lead assures us is the genesis for the most toxic behavior on our server.

So, three hard-coded teams (i.e. Sullon Zek) = toxic behavior. Four soft-coded teams (i.e. Vallon Zek) created the environment from which Loot n' Scoot originated. Rep Yo City 3.0 opens with 12 city-based teams divided into three factions. Each team has the option to ally with the other three city teams within their faction. They also have the option to attack the other city teams within their faction. The existence of such options, commonly referred to as "soft coding," is what produced the greatness that was Vallon Zek. To simply hard code the three factions into teams would be to fall into the same trap that produced Sullon Zek and all the toxic player behavior described by Sirken in my sig quote.

The one drawback of soft-coded teams is the phenomenon of immortal healing. To address this, Rep Yo City 3.0 recommends a dynamic flagging system for PvP. You are allowed to heal players within your faction but outside your team, but not without consequences. If a member of your city team is engaged in PvP with a member of another city team within the same faction and you cast a beneficial spell on the player your teammate is fighting, you are flagged as PvP+ to your own team for as long as you remain in that zone. When this flagging occurs, the flagged player's name should change colors to indicate to the player's teammates that the player is now attackable.

So, cross teaming is possible, as it was on the Race War servers, but immortal healing is not. As soon as you heal outside your team, you lose PvP protection from your own team until you zone. The staff has already proposed a dynamic level range system to address out-of-range healing. The combination of this proposed dynamic flagging system with the dynamic range system proposed by the staff would eliminate immortal healing altogether.

Here are the 12 city teams divided by faction:

Human faction:

Erudin
Qeynos (includes Surefall Glade)
Halas
Freeport

Evil faction:

Neriak
Paineel
Grobb
Oggok

Elf and shortie faction:

Rivervale
Kaladim
Kelethin (includes Felwithe)
Ak'anon

As discussed in previous threads, a division such as this would deny essential raid classes to certain teams. As listed above, the evil team would lack monks and bards while the Elf/shortie team would lack shaman. The immersion-breaking introduction of the dwarf shaman has been suggested previously, but Rep Yo City 3.0 proposes to keep the server as classic as possible. As such, upon creation of a barbarian shaman, the creating player will be prompted to select Human faction or Elf/shortie faction. Upon creation of a human bard starting in Freeport, the creating player will be prompted to select Human faction or Evil faction. And upon creation of a human monk in Freeport, the creating player will be prompted to select Human faction or Elf/shortie faction. The selection made will be permanent and final for that character.

Players who select a faction other than the one that controls their chosen starting cities can expect to be outcasts until they are able to relocate to areas controlled by their chosen faction. Players from the controlling faction for a given starting city will see the names of such outcasts as red to indicate that the player has chosen an enemy faction. Players who choose outcast status can expect to be attacked and decried as "fairy lovers" as long as they remain in their home city.

You will note that Rep Yo City 3.0 does not allow the option for human monks to select the Evil faction. This is because the evil team dominated Tallon Zek for its entire history, and they did it without monks until Kunark. The Evil faction on Rep Yo City 3.0 will have to make do with shadowknights as its feign death class until Kunark is opened and Cabilis is joined with the Evil faction. Man up, Evil faction.

Other restrictions will include that shadowknights and necromancers are only allowed within the Evil faction while druids and paladins are only allowed within the Human and Elf/shortie factions. Rep Yo City 3.0 is not perfectly balanced, but it combines the best aspects of Race War, the most successful PvP ruleset in Everquest history, with solutions for its few shortcomings. Rep Yo City 3.0 also recommends a +/- 6 level spread for PvP, the ideal compromise between the bluebie fest that was Rallos Zek and the more prolific PvP of Race War.

BrobbVZ
01-02-2014, 05:44 AM
Who were you on Vallon Zek? Daak here

Clark
01-02-2014, 05:48 AM
Rep Yo City.

http://s7.postimg.org/8og7z9jbv/mv5z0_RRcf_M1tm8l_9_T8mk_Vg.jpg


Pretty interesting post though :D

Smedy
01-02-2014, 05:56 AM
Vallon Zek was great, so much fun playing when 90% of pop followed rules but you still got that 10% of fuckery to spice things up

The teams part surely made Vallon Zek more fun for the newbies having someone to trust on your own side at the beginning, but towards the end it really didn't matter much

The thing i liked the most was that your reputation had a huge impact on your character, if you were labeled as a douche you wouldn't get into a guild, which was great cause that lead to everyone actually giving a fuck

Red Dawn shows promise where they boot players who break rules, nizzar speaks of doing it but he is only interested in winning and that means keeping numbers. No one is ever getting booted from nihilum unless there's pixel drama.

Aenor
01-02-2014, 05:58 AM
Who were you on Vallon Zek? Daak here

Aenor the Betrayer, human druid of Surefall Glade, was born the day Vallon Zek came online. Scroll down to the entries for the Journal of Bregolas if you appreciate full immersion:

http://z9.invisionfree.com/Mordred/ar/t61.htm

Dullah
01-02-2014, 06:00 AM
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll36/Bigsteve87/Gifs/iX5iO.gif

Aenor
01-02-2014, 06:03 AM
Smedy, if you do a promo video for Teams99, here's the soundtrack:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-THg68cxEWY

Beastro
01-02-2014, 08:01 AM
The thing i liked the most was that your reputation had a huge impact on your character, if you were labeled as a douche you wouldn't get into a guild, which was great cause that lead to everyone actually giving a fuck

Much the same was the case on RZ, but it takes a certain mentality that is alien to most PvPers because of the SZ taint.

Smedy
01-02-2014, 08:47 AM
i will have to negotiate new terms for promo video, i need to either

1 be on staff
2 get a mandatory aon summoned

until then i will continue to work on my sirken album

Danien
01-02-2014, 08:50 AM
This absolute cesspool has little resemblance with SZ. The vztz crowd have by far had the most toxic impact on player behavior here.

Danien
01-02-2014, 08:52 AM
Three hard-coded teams created the Sullon Zek mentality, which our CSR lead assures us is the genesis for the most toxic behavior on our server.

Quoted for stupidity. You don't think the "anything goes save for hacking" ruleset had a little more to do with it?

Smedy
01-02-2014, 08:56 AM
So what you're saying is that vztz players are toxic

I'd agree with that, but heres a fun fact

95% of the current vztz players playing on red99 are in nihilum

Beastro
01-02-2014, 09:02 AM
This absolute cesspool has little resemblance with SZ. The vztz crowd have by far had the most toxic impact on player behavior here.

Who do you think had a majority pushing for the server to be remade into a SZ server/looked to SZ and it's behaviour as the model to imitate?

Quoted for stupidity. You don't think the "anything goes save for hacking" ruleset had a little more to do with it?

And where do you think the whole "Take no prisoners, win at any cost even if it ruins the server" mentality came from?

So what you're saying is that vztz players are toxic

I'd agree with that, but heres a fun fact

95% of the current vztz players playing on red99 are in nihilum

This just goes to show how even a perfect PvP system won't work, the remaining population that is attracted to PvP is dominated by scum and has been since VZTZ reached its apex. It's the #1 reason why I gave this server a pass at launch and never regretted it, I saw the writing on the wall.

Now, if you could find some new untapped population of EQ vets to pollute all the crap in then Aenor's proposal or any proposal, even the server at its current state could work, but unless EQ is shutting down, they've all run dry.

Feniggles
01-02-2014, 09:21 AM
Vallon Zek!

Danien
01-02-2014, 10:04 AM
And where do you think the whole "Take no prisoners, win at any cost even if it ruins the server" mentality came from?


If you're talking about SZ I would have to say it was due to the ruleset which allowed for all kinds of griefing, especially training and no level-range in pvp. I assume they made the teams hardcoded to strengthen their identities, which in my book is a good thing.
It gives you both stronger allies and enemies. You don't have to look over your shoulder while grouping, nor will you worry about damaging relationships when attacking other players. The problem was that the harsh ruleset that came with it attracted an above normal sized pool of toxic players, which in turn created a very hostile environment.

Aenor
01-02-2014, 10:41 AM
Sirken flying out to Sveden to lay down some raps? Preorder.

Agatha
01-02-2014, 10:43 AM
NAW

Nixus
01-02-2014, 10:50 AM
VZ ftw, good post.

runlvlzero
01-02-2014, 12:10 PM
I'm going to donate to R99 today. Were's that paypal at.

Donation Details
Donation amount: $25.00 USD
Total: $25.00 USD
Purpose: Thanks, you guys workin on Verrious and making the PnP and giving R99 much needed love <3 XOXOXOXO

Shits worth the cost of a good game on steam, at least 4x over, this is what I can spare fella's. Much /pras

Mac Dretti
01-02-2014, 12:23 PM
why did u put comma after "Thanks"?

Also didnt read op

Kergan
01-02-2014, 12:27 PM
People ripping on the SZ community who never played SZ gets pretty old. People seem to think that because Sirken is of this opinion that it must be correct.

The ruleset, specifically the ability to train, was what caused all the issues. Enable that ability on any PVP (or even non PVP) server ever created on live or emu and you'll have identical results.

The people were no better or worse than VZ, TZ, VZTZ, RZ, Zek etc. In fact there was a huge overlap among all of these servers.

runlvlzero
01-02-2014, 12:29 PM
People ripping on the SZ community who never played SZ gets pretty old. People seem to think that because Sirken is of this opinion that it must be correct.

The ruleset, specifically the ability to train, was what caused all the issues. Enable that ability on any PVP (or even non PVP) server ever created on live or emu and you'll have identical results.

The people were no better or worse than VZ, TZ, VZTZ, RZ, Zek etc. In fact there was a huge overlap among all of these servers.

this isn't 1999 and SZ wasn't the best server, though it was a unique buttercup, got to agree with kergan, also kergan your taking Aenor's TLDR 2 serious he's not ripping SZ for what it was, he's saying he doesn't want an SZ like experience.

And I agree with Aenor also. <<<< update

runlvlzero
01-02-2014, 12:31 PM
why did u put comma after "Thanks"?

Also didnt read op

It's an implied pause, read it like Thanks (Big smile), speech...

Hateraid
01-02-2014, 12:40 PM
I didn't read it, but It def sounds like you get a lot of pussy.

Kergan
01-02-2014, 01:01 PM
this isn't 1999 and SZ wasn't the best server, though it was a unique buttercup, got to agree with kergan, also kergan your taking Aenor's TLDR 2 serious he's not ripping SZ for what it was, he's saying he doesn't want an SZ like experience.

And I agree with Aenor also. <<<< update

"To simply hard code the three factions into teams would be to fall into the same trap that produced Sullon Zek and all the toxic player behavior described by Sirken in my sig quote."

I dunno. He specifically said SZ and referenced a quote from Sirken that directly referred to the SZ community. I think I was in line with my comments.

I just think soft coded teams would be different then now how? What's the point?

runlvlzero
01-02-2014, 01:10 PM
The point is to create a more heterogeneous top end for each team. Not to enforce a strict playstyle IMO.

Right now its homogenous as hell. Over 50% of the server is in 1 of 2 guilds that have no positive interaction with each other.

If people can X-team they won't all roll on the same team, and they will benefit their own teams even if at 60 they work against competing guilds on their own teams.

IDK I can really see where Aenor is going with this. It's a solid concept.

What he is saying is not condemning SZ, it's condemning falling into a rosy eyed nostalgic trap for a rules set that wasn't overly popular, though had a die hard cult following.

Sirken praised SZ and that was his server, I've heard him say it before. But he doesn't want to make a repeat of it. He want's do do better. Go above and beyond. Not just recreate the past when it comes to PvP rules sets.

This I agree. The only good classic rules set was RZ, item loot, +/-4 levels, classic resists. We'll never see that on this project for whatever reason.

Let's create a good teams environment that will thrive. Not recreate hardcore griefmatch (deathmatch) v.2.0

Again I'm not putting words into Aenors mouth, I've seen him bash and troll. It appears he's trying to be legit with this and not just flame SZ'ers. The wording is not overly negative and rant like IMO.

thisuserwasbannedlol
01-02-2014, 02:54 PM
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll36/Bigsteve87/Gifs/iX5iO.gif

aenor still thinks he is getting a teams server

lol what a newb

jeffd
01-02-2014, 03:15 PM
sz was def the harshest pvp server, most subhumans couldn't handle it tho

runlvlzero
01-02-2014, 06:01 PM
I'de rather be perpetually trapped on SZ than any normal reality any day of the week though.

raka
01-02-2014, 06:08 PM
i want to know if Tipp from VZ playes here

Aenor
01-02-2014, 06:50 PM
i want to know if Tipp from VZ playes here

I tried to get Xanit K'Ven to try the server out but Tipp decided they would have no official presence here. You got eXK in Nihilum (Mendan) and Smedy, many others I'm sure. Haven't seen Tipp in a game since he was running around Vanguard in Walmart gear while Gruffer's crew carried XK to victory.

Aenor
01-02-2014, 07:41 PM
can we get a combined weight of the posters involved here, guessing a few tons

6-3, 190
Position: Point Guard

You?

Mac Dretti
01-02-2014, 07:52 PM
5'3, 418.
Position: Dragon Slayer, Forum Warrior

Potus
01-02-2014, 07:54 PM
Vallon Zek was a fun server.

Sirken
01-02-2014, 08:03 PM
Pras Vallon Zek

the greatest EQ server of all time.

if any of u played on another server, i wont make fun of you. but i do feel bad for you.

Clark
01-02-2014, 08:22 PM
i will have to negotiate new terms for promo video, i need to either

1 be on staff
2 get a mandatory aon summoned

until then i will continue to work on my sirken album

lol

mugien
01-03-2014, 12:03 AM
Big VZ dogs in the house.

Pitborn
01-03-2014, 12:14 AM
I enjoyed Pking Sirkens Elf.

Blizze
01-03-2014, 12:52 AM
VZ was the best << Blizze, Fyrechyld, Whyspery >>

Nixus
01-03-2014, 01:13 AM
VZ was the best << Blizze, Fyrechyld, Whyspery >>

holdout, not the same people...

Blizze
01-03-2014, 02:18 PM
holdout, not the same people...

Blizze the human cleric til 54 just after Kunark launch. Traded for Fyrechyld the erudite wiz and Whyspery the welf rog was alt that became main later in Velious.

Beastro
01-04-2014, 06:11 AM
People ripping on the SZ community who never played SZ gets pretty old. People seem to think that because Sirken is of this opinion that it must be correct.

The ruleset, specifically the ability to train, was what caused all the issues. Enable that ability on any PVP (or even non PVP) server ever created on live or emu and you'll have identical results.

The people were no better or worse than VZ, TZ, VZTZ, RZ, Zek etc. In fact there was a huge overlap among all of these servers.

Such rules attract/breed a certain mentality, one that's hard to kick after SZ becomes your server as what happened when it logically got its core population from the other three red servers.

I loved to grief newbies in Nektulos on my troll SK, but I had a limit that would be counter-productive on such zero-sum server.

And why do you think we're comparing server populations? We're not, we're explaining where this mentality originated, what brought it out to begin with and how it applies to this server and the emu PvP community as a whole.

Your last post sums ours up nicely: There was massively overlap when people had a chance to pick what server fitted them and then we all got dumped into the same pool, not only for being a small emu community, but our only alternatives to that community are Zek, bluebing it up on Live, emu or finally giving up on EQ.

Our point is not in the past, its about now and how 3 out of 4 servers had PvP and had a good amount of fair play an and over all easy going attitude in the PvP community outside of PvP itself that was noticeable lacking on the fourth server tio the point that it became their banner, their mark of pride at being the worst of the worst of Everquest and how that mentality infected emu PvP a good half way through VZTZ1 and steady grew until it dominated it, dealt the server it's deadly blow and has the 80 pound tapeworm in R99s 40 pound Ethiopian child from the very beginning.

This community is like peeing into a bucket for a year, letting all the water evaporate from it each time it's used, then drinking it at the end of the year - then realizing that this is really your only source of liquid.

Sirken praised SZ and that was his server, I've heard him say it before. But he doesn't want to make a repeat of it. He want's do do better. Go above and beyond. Not just recreate the past when it comes to PvP rules sets.

As I would never want to make a repeat of RZ. Everquest was an unsustainable model in the long run, I mean, content wise it's Golden Age lasted for its first two two expansion packs released per annum and after that it pittled on for another two expacks.

Think of WoW lasting that long.

On top of that you add PvP in a heavily gear dependant game at the last moment, and for RZ, it wound up not only killing the PKs, but the Antis through Luclin's era where the only people who dominated were this servers equivalent to Nihilum. I'd never want RZ back again nor any of the other servers. We need to recognize either that EQ PvP needs a lot of experiment before we find a good non-classic rule set, or the mechanics of PvP, and even PvE need to be rebuilt from the bottom up to make the Everquest now played what we wanted it to be: The EQ killer, the one that we're happy with whose population won't fizzle a few months after every launch, but that goes against the reason for being of the project and is so much of a task our time would be better spent sitting around continuing to play MMO roulette until someone sensible finally makes one that isn't a WoW clone/doesn't tank and I worry we're in for a long Dark Age before that day comes.

Swish
01-04-2014, 06:38 AM
Here are the 13 city teams divided by faction:

Human faction:

Erudin
Qeynos (includes Surefall Glade)
Halas
Freeport

Evil faction:

Neriak
Paineel
Grobb
Oggok
Cabilis?

Elf and shortie faction:

Rivervale
Kaladim
Kelethin (includes Felwithe)
Ak'anon

Aenor
01-04-2014, 07:54 AM
It was mentioned that the Evil faction would not have monks until Kunark.