Compromise Proposal

[Splorf22]

Gonna throw this one out here because I'm overtrained. Nothing new here really, it's just a weighted combination of other people's plans so that everyone gets something.

Each guild will be classified as Tier 1 (full on variance guilds; starting members: FE/IB and TMO), Tier 2 (junior variance guilds; starting members: Taken, BDA, and Divinity), or Tier 3 (smaller guilds; starting members: Europa, The A-Team, and Azure guard).

The primary rule here is going to be Sloan style effective rotation between TMO and FEIB: if you killed a mob the previous week, you have to wait 30 minutes the next week, and applies to all guilds regardless of tier. I know TMO doesn't like this much, but it's primarily here to make the GM's lives easier.

First week: Full rotation. Everyone will be sorted by tier first and /random second, and pick what targets they want in repeating order. Since this is primarily for the benefit of the smaller guilds, they will pick their own kill times. Example: The A-Team picks Severilious @ 10PM ET. So if Sev spawns at 5AM, we have 17 hours to kill him; if he spawns at 4PM we have 6 hours to kill him, etc. It also means during this week people only have to log on trackers once or twice per day.

Second week: Practice Mode. Tier 1 guilds must wait 30 minutes before engaging any target. No restrictions on Tier 2 or 3 guilds.

Third, Fourth, and Fifth Weeks: full 'competition. In practice this will mean a TMO/FEIB rotation.

End of the cycle: promotion/demotion. More than 10 mob kills -> Tier 1. More than 1 mob kill outside of week one: -> Tier 2. Otherwise: Tier 3.

So the idea here is that everyone gets a little something. Guilds like The A-Team get a shot at something uncontested every now and again, BDA gets a week to hone their batphone skills under slightly less 'competitive' circumstances, and FEIBTMO still get most of the goodies.

Estimated mob distribution:
A-Team, Europa, Azure Guard: 2/85 = 2.3% each, 6.9% total
BDA, Taken, Divinity: 2+4+1 = 7/85 = 8.2% each, 24.6% total
FEIB, TMO: 2 + 3 + 8 + 8 + 8 = 29/85 = 34% each, 68% total

I consider this solution far inferior to repops, but I'm just throwing it out there because in the end I think there will be a compromise that looks something like this.

[Ella`Ella]

Splorff, I imagine you'll be the representative for A-Team?

The two-hour wait consideration is really just an arbitrary number for the "elite" raiding guilds, as you describe them. It only takes TMO and FE about 3 minutes to full mobilize and kill any target (with the exception of CT, due to the mechanics of the encounter only). The two hours is just a courtesy to smaller guilds that might have to wait for members to log on due to the lack of a batphone or whatever.

Beyond that, this proposal really excludes and limits the raiding experience for TMO and FE. Considering our guilds must wait X amount of time for weeks 1 and 2, we effectively only get 2 raiding weeks per months. Leaving a mob up for 2 hours or 30 minutes wouldn't be worth our time for the most part, as BDA, Taken, Divinity, or even a posse of pick-ups can engage and down most of that content within those time constraints -- especially within two hours.

[Lune]

http://i.imgur.com/a96mqCK.jpg

[Vallanor]

Speaking as a casual raider (not a representative of AG), I love this proposal. Also, as a casual forum-goer, I love Splorf22. He did force me to make an enchanter after reading his enchanter guide, however, which was kinda rude...

[quido]

Not a bad idea, though week 2 needs an adjustment as it is basically free mobs for BDA. If they agreed to wait X hours before killing something so Tier 3 guilds could get a chance, I think it would be better.

[Splorf22]

Beyond that, this proposal really excludes and limits the raiding experience for TMO and FE. Considering our guilds must wait X amount of time for weeks 1 and 2, we effectively only get 2 raiding weeks per months. Leaving a mob up for 2 hours or 30 minutes wouldn't be worth our time for the most part, as BDA, Taken, Divinity, or even a posse of pick-ups can engage and down most of that content within those time constraints -- especially within two hours.

First, its a five week system. So you get your exact preferred system for a full 60% of the time. Secondly, you'll still get some mobs in week one (like everyone else). And finally it's hard to imagine BDA is going to go nuts in VP on week two, so you'll probably get a decent number of those too. I guess under this system you'd get about 1/3 of all targets . . . what were you expecting?

Not a bad idea, though week 2 needs an adjustment as it is basically free mobs for BDA. If they agreed to wait X hours before killing something so Tier 3 guilds could get a chance, I think it would be better.

Well, BDA is guaranteed two mobs in week one. So if they do go on a rampage and kill everything on week two, the next cycle they'll be classified as Tier 1. In fact I could see them oscillating between Tier 1 and 2.

Anyway I don't think anyone will really like this proposal. It doesn't give everyone what they want. As I said, I think repops are way better. But it's a reasonable compromise.

[khanable]

Not a bad idea, though week 2 needs an adjustment as it is basically free mobs for BDA. If they agreed to wait X hours before killing something so Tier 3 guilds could get a chance, I think it would be better.

I think you're underestimating Taken and Divinity.

Stop by VS pit

[Funkutron5000]

Anyway I don't think anyone will really like this proposal. It doesn't give everyone what they want. As I said, I think repops are way better. But it's a reasonable compromise.

That's how you know it's a good proposal. I feel that in a true compromise, no one should walk away happy about the deal - it means they had to give up something that they wanted.

[Vandy]

Out of all of the proposals so far I like this one.

Still gives the "hardcore" people most of the bosses, basically 3 full weeks. And the first 2 weeks give others who have less time to devote to the game a chance to see some encounters and experience some good ole Everquest, that's what people are here for right.

[Spacebar]

Yep, I really hope some variation of this proposal goes through. Not really sure who this proposal isn't fair to (unless you count the people who want everything for themselves). It gives the people who want "competition" (as they call it) while also allowing other guilds to get more than scraps.

It also seems to put incentives in the right places. I mean, if a tier 2 guild is getting a lot of kills, but doesn't want to go to tier 1, they would likely back off to avoid getting to many and thus letting other guilds get more that. Likewise, if a tier 1 guild can't really compete in a tier 1 environment, they would drop back to tier 2.

It also seems like something more simple to maintain than a lot of the other ideas.

Main problem I see is the "bigger" guilds not playing ball because of their "getting a significant majority of mobs isn't enough, we want them all" attitude.

[Clark]

That's how you know it's a good proposal. I feel that in a true compromise, no one should walk away happy about the deal - it means they had to give up something that they wanted.

I prefer the current raid rule, but this is the best proposal I've seen thus far.

[Merchants of Qeynos]

I like this system. Thanks for the idea!

[jaybone]

as long as alts are camped at raid targets raiding here means shit.

[citizen1080]

as long as alts are camped at raid targets raiding here means shit.

The amount of extra accounts people have here is not classic. Therefore, we need an un-classic solution for this.

I propose we figure out what zone is a somewhat equal distance away from the various raid targets and have a NPC placed there. Once this NPC is hailed a ~1-2 hour buff is placed on the player and persists through death. This buff would allow them to get onto a raid mobs hate list without being either DT'd or Banished to the middle of OOT (up to the staff)

This would require everyone to start at the same point when racing for mobs. The Alt Army would still have a leg up on other people because they could log out their army at the NPC and would only have to race from A to B. While people with one toon would have to tag the NPC first before rushing off to kill trak etc. But over all this would even the playing field I think and create a more fun and exciting raid environment.

[jaybone]

The amount of extra accounts people have here is not classic. Therefore, we need an un-classic solution for this.

I propose we figure out what zone is a somewhat equal distance away from the various raid targets and have a NPC placed there. Once this NPC is hailed a ~1-2 hour buff is placed on the player and persists through death. This buff would allow them to get onto a raid mobs hate list without being either DT'd or Banished to the middle of OOT (up to the staff)

This would require everyone to start at the same point when racing for mobs. The Alt Army would still have a leg up on other people because they could log out their army at the NPC and would only have to race from A to B. While people with one toon would have to tag the NPC first before rushing off to kill trak etc. But over all this would even the playing field I think and create a more fun and exciting raid environment.
exactly, with kunark going on 3 years its enabled people to have alts upon alts of BiS or near Bis camped at these targets.

[Nirgon]

http://www.scenesc.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/in-the-year-2000.jpg

[Happyfeet]

Second reply by Lune, whoever that is, automatically saying TMO is going to hate it.
I only hate bad ideas, see Baramur's post for an example of a shit idea.

This idea needs some tweaking, but I'd say it's 80% on the way to something we'd agree to. It's not that we don't want to give others a chance, we just don't want to spoon-feed loot to the 3rd/4th guilds.

I'd gladly give up a large portion of mobs to fine people like Europa, A-team, and the like to attempt new raids, develop strategies and enjoy the game. But I don't want us and FE/IB to sit out just to have the next in line guild clean sweep the rest.

[Yinikren]

I don't dislike this idea. I would prefer it be a four week system so it is easier to keep track of over a monthly basis and so guilds wouldn't have to go on a 3 week vacation after practice week is done. The upper guilds are still getting mobs the first and second weeks, why are they then allowed 3 additional weeks of (essentially) uncontested content? It's a good idea I think, however.

[Varren]

I don't dislike this idea. I would prefer it be a four week system so it is easier to keep track of over a monthly basis and so guilds wouldn't have to go on a 3 week vacation after practice week is done. The upper guilds are still getting mobs the first and second weeks, why are they then allowed 3 additional weeks of (essentially) uncontested content? It's a good idea I think, however.

5th weeks of months are usually quite short.

[Swish]

I like it, I'd trial it for 5 weeks to see what happened... then have a discussion amongst leaders/officers of each of those guilds and see what they thought of it.

No Supremacy listed in the OP? Do I overestimate their ability? :p

[zanderklocke]

I assume new guilds not listed would start in Tier 3 and would have to work their way up like a ladder.

However, definitely some website would need to be created indicating the ladder information and what week it was.

[radditsu]

The amount of extra accounts people have here is not classic. Therefore, we need an un-classic solution for this.

I propose we figure out what zone is a somewhat equal distance away from the various raid targets and have a NPC placed there. Once this NPC is hailed a ~1-2 hour buff is placed on the player and persists through death. This buff would allow them to get onto a raid mobs hate list without being either DT'd or Banished to the middle of OOT (up to the staff)

This would require everyone to start at the same point when racing for mobs. The Alt Army would still have a leg up on other people because they could log out their army at the NPC and would only have to race from A to B. While people with one toon would have to tag the NPC first before rushing off to kill trak etc. But over all this would even the playing field I think and create a more fun and exciting raid environment.

Or register a "raid main" tied to a registered user account and have it forcibly and permanently bound to city of mist!

[sedrie.bellamie]

Or register a "raid main" tied to a registered user account and have it forcibly and permanently bound to city of mist!

radditsu's ideas are terrible; easy to see why you do not play this game

[radditsu]

radditsu's ideas are terrible; easy to see why you do not play this game

Dear piece of shit troll,


Have you always been a piece of shit? Or is it something that has happened because your poor little pixels are taken away?

I was clearly making a joke.


Go back to whatever bullshit basement neckbeard life you live in,


Go fuck yourself,


Radditsu

[falkun]

Happyfeets, the only reason you don't mind giving mobs to Europa or A-Team is because they are not currently a "threat". If it was Europa or A-Team that was the "next guild in line", you'd hate them as well. There has to be a way for guilds to become the "next in line" or you are just saying "keep the status quo" in a round-about way.

[Powtle]

Thanks for your thoughts Lorean.

1) What happens when a guild wipes on his mob during week one? Mob goes to FTE?

2) I think there should be a criteria to enter tier 3. Maybe 2 kills of Spiroc Lord?
(When Europa does upper islands we usually invite AG to do lower Islands, but Supremacy or Knights could have a shot np)

[phacemeltar]

the problem, it would seem, is that your "tier 1" guilds are trying to control everyone else by not allowing them to experience end-game content. fucking jerks.

[Droog007]

... It's not that we don't want to give others a chance, we just don't want to spoon-feed loot to the 3rd/4th guilds...

Your sense of entitlement bleeds through again - they're not YOUR mobs to meter out as you see fit to best reward our sub-standard efforts.

Get the fuck off the high horse.

[Vandy]

So far out of the 300 proposal I've read this one still seems the most reasonable. Have the guild leaders met yet and started hammering anything out?

[Retti_]

Please add <Royal Blue Elves> to the mob distribution.

Thank you.

[baramur]

Prolly best idea i have read, though i might give a little more distrubution from tmo/ib/fe. Like if one mob was monopolized by tmo/fe/ib in weeks 3 and 4, in week 5 they would have to wait 30 min to engage said mob.

[Seltius]

Seems like a start the only question is how do you track this. Seems like a lot of work and oversight for someone(s). Also how is this handled if guilds raid together? Do they still count as separate guilds? Could say a tier 3 guild team up with a tier 2 or 1 guild to kill things? How would that affect their standings? How many people are considered a raid for counting purposes. Could members of a tier 1 or 2 guild go with a tier 3 guild on say a hate raid or say naggy raid would that count as a raid if its only a couple people? Or on a larger scale using recent tactics as an example how does FE and IB count in this when they have a group or 2+ members raiding with the other guild?