Free Andis IMMEDIATELY

[Andis]

Originally Posted by Andis View Post
Andis supposedly taking a break also.

Loaded into mass pvp in TT/EJ

fighting 10 nihi with 4 players

during the match supposedly puddems shouts lns, while we are engaged in pvp

andis gets 1 yellowtext on puddems thinking hes part of the battle

why lns during a mass pvp encounter?

thoughts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derubael View Post
I'm not going to change the wording, I'm hoping people will use common sense. If you didn't make the kill, you don't have to let them get their corpse (Ie, you can gank them on a corpse run).

Andis did not make intial kill to put him on a CR, Andis kills him for the first time.

NEED GM RULING ASAP

NOT EVEN KIDDING FREE ANDIS RIGHT NOW

Ambrotos I am disappointed in you, for putting the banhammer on me so quick without even letting me explain.

BIG thanks to Hippo - for pointing this out

[heartbrand]

Correct, Andis wasn't there for the initial kill at all, and, Puddems never actually looted and scooted, he proceeded to remain in Seb for Trakanon.

[Edgat]

Correct, Andis wasn't there for the initial kill at all, and, Puddems never actually looted and scooted, he proceeded to remain in Seb for Trakanon.

I died at 635 or some shit in seb then my second death was at 700 pm exactly in EJ i did not enter seb until 800pm exactly i followed the rules whistle clean as fuck

As i told andis I did not petition him specifically I only petitioned that LnS was denied because that is what we are supposed to do.

You can ask people in my guild i was telling them I would not enter till exactly 1 hour after my 2nd death which was almost 1.5 hours after the death in seb. I was getting nervous near the end because at about 758 twainz was in range of seb bubble ranger track

[Elderan]

Correct, Andis wasn't there for the initial kill at all, and, Puddems never actually looted and scooted, he proceeded to remain in Seb for Trakanon.

Not true, he remained outside for 1 hour as required...

But anyway rule is full of holes as I tried to explain before retards like checkraise started twisting things.

[HippoNipple]

LNS technically wasn't denied because it is only granted when the same player kills you twice. You petitioned when you shouldn't have.

[Andis]

LNS technically wasn't denied because it is only granted when the same player kills you twice. You petitioned when you shouldn't have.

GM Derubael so quick to ban me, he didnt even let me explain

Derubael check PMs please and thanks.

[Edgat]

Also for your own safety the rule should be interpreted as "don't kill anyone naked on a corpse run unless they engage you first and then you better have evidence"

[Edgat]

LNS technically wasn't denied because it is only granted when the same player kills you twice. You petitioned when you shouldn't have.

No im not gonna dig for the quote but derubael said when anyone associated with the original kill doesn't even have to be same group or same guild if you are part of the larger picture and you kill that person a 2nd time you are breaking the PnP for Corpse Recovery and Loot and Scoot.

"the resistance" was trying to get around this by having 5 people in a group all from different guilds saying "oh well azrael got the kill so red dawn and fair fighters can kill you naked" this isn't the case

[Holey]

KEEP THEM CHAINS ON ANDIS, GREIFER OF THE NAKED PEOPLE!

[Ambrotos]

Bind-point/Corpse Camping.

Killing someone over and over again while at his or her bind-point or while they are in the process of retrieving their corpse is illegal and may result in disciplinary action taken against your account. You are expected in all cases to give someone a reasonable amount of time to recover their corpse and leave the area prior to attacking again. This also applies to raid/group/guild PvP.


This is what I'm going by since it is directly in the rules. I passed word on if it should be worded differently then so be it and we can get it cleared up. Otherwise it's pretty easy call for me to make.

[Andis]

This is what I'm going by since it is directly in the rules. I passed word on if it should be different then so be it. Otherwise it's pretty easy call for me to make.

but I did not make the intial kill..

killing him once.

petition submitted, and thanks.

[Sektor]

Andis unless the person you attacked was naked was attacking you what's the point of killing that person? Go by the rules or get suspended it's that simple. These are the GMs rules and if you don't like it you can always give me your account and items if you're looking for a way out.

[heartbrand]

Andis unless the person you attacked was naked was attacking you what's the point of killing that person? Go by the rules or get suspended it's that simple. These are the GMs rules and if you don't like it you can always give me your account and items if you're looking for a way out.

Was mass pvp, dunno, tbh if anyone should be suspended it's lite not Andis. I think Andis was just assisting without really knowing what was happening. From being in TS, Andis legit had no clue, but shrug, 7 days w/e who cares, do your time on the bench.

[Andis]

Andis unless the person you attacked was naked was attacking you what's the point of killing that person? Go by the rules or get suspended it's that simple. These are the GMs rules and if you don't like it you can always give me your account and items if you're looking for a way out.

sektor stfu, i am playing by the rules, why dont you read them first you dumb brute

[Sektor]

sektor stfu, i am playing by the rules, why dont you read them first you dumb brute

why are you mad at me? Don't attack naked people.

[Retti_]

i heard puddems announced LNS (even tho he doesn't have to since rule states its granted permently) and people acknowledged it in ooc or shout and then andis proceeding to kill him

andis also posted earlier he knew he was on lns and thought fck it

[Andis]

i heard puddems announced LNS (even tho he doesn't have to since rule states its granted permently) and people acknowledged it in ooc or shout and then andis proceeding to kill him

andis also posted earlier he knew he was on lns and thought fck it

wrong I knew he was on LnS, when he shouted in DL 10 mins after it happened.

nihilum stop trying to twist this.

[Gaffin 3.0]

lol if ambrotos got you, your fucked. guy loves to press the ban button for anything

[Andis]

why are you mad at me? Don't attack naked people.

I am allowed to attack nakeds. Once. confirmed by sirken and derubael.

Especially nihilum nakeds.

[Snufz]

Gonna run naked everywhere for guarenteed safety.

[Sektor]

twisting what? Don't kill naked players and you won't get suspended. No twisting necessary.

[Sektor]

Gonna run naked everywhere for guarenteed safety.

lmfao

[Andis]

twisting what? Don't kill naked players and you won't get suspended. No twisting necessary.

I am allowed to kill a naked player, once

BOTH SIRKEN AND DERUBAEL CONFIRMED ON THESE BOARDS

[Sektor]

I am allowed to kill a naked player, once

BOTH SIRKEN AND DERUBAEL CONFIRMED ON THESE BOARDS

Doesn't matter what they say. You killing naked players risks something like this happening again.

[Retti_]

not when they are naked from pvp death

[Eslade]

Bind-point/Corpse Camping.

Killing someone over and over again while at his or her bind-point or while they are in the process of retrieving their corpse is illegal and may result in disciplinary action taken against your account. You are expected in all cases to give someone a reasonable amount of time to recover their corpse and leave the area prior to attacking again. This also applies to raid/group/guild PvP.


Sorry, but either the gm's have to clarify that you can't be associated with the group that initially killed the player or they need to say that you can't kill naked people. As it is, Andis is only guilty of being a dick, but he didn't technically break any rules.

[HippoNipple]

This is what I'm going by since it is directly in the rules. I passed word on if it should be worded differently then so be it and we can get it cleared up. Otherwise it's pretty easy call for me to make.

"Killing someone over and over again while at his or her bind-point or while they are in the process of retrieving their corpse is illegal and may result in disciplinary action taken against your account. You are expected in all cases to give someone a reasonable amount of time to recover their corpse and leave the area prior to attacking again. This also applies to raid/group/guild PvP."

You are going off of the correct rule but the rules were misapplied in this situation. Someone is only obligated to follow LNS rules if they were the one to initially kill the person. The first line makes it clear that it pertains only to the person that made the first kill when it says "killing someone over and over again."

If someone logs into the game and sees someone run by they can kill them if they wish. You can't be expected to know if someone called LNS unless you were the reason they had to call it and knew to look out for it.

The rules are actually very easy to follow when understood but I see why there is confusion with how it was worded. It is also understandable that some temporary bans will go out until these rules are understood. In the meantime, correcting misapplied bans is in order, including this case being discussed, to preserve box integrity.

[Andis]

Bind-point/Corpse Camping.

Killing someone over and over again while at his or her bind-point or while they are in the process of retrieving their corpse is illegal and may result in disciplinary action taken against your account. You are expected in all cases to give someone a reasonable amount of time to recover their corpse and leave the area prior to attacking again. This also applies to raid/group/guild PvP.


Sorry, but either the gm's have to clarify that you can't be associated with the group that initially killed the player or they need to say that you can't kill naked people. As it is, Andis is only guilty of being a dick, but he didn't technically break any rules.

Andis did not break the rules

Puddems says so himself. Enough said.

[Sektor]

Bind-point/Corpse Camping.

Killing someone over and over again while at his or her bind-point or while they are in the process of retrieving their corpse is illegal and may result in disciplinary action taken against your account. You are expected in all cases to give someone a reasonable amount of time to recover their corpse and leave the area prior to attacking again. This also applies to raid/group/guild PvP.


Sorry, but either the gm's have to clarify that you can't be associated with the group that initially killed the player or they need to say that you can't kill naked people. As it is, Andis is only guilty of being a dick, but he didn't technically break any rules.
Andis is guilty sorry pal can't twist it. Everyone knows the rules and people are gonna start getting suspended if they break them. Go by the rules or get banned. You are guilty by association.

[Edgat]

Andis did not break the rules

Puddems says so himself. Enough said.

I did not say that it says you have to let a naked person on a corpse run time to get their corpse you gave me none. Derubael has also said on boards you don't have to be the initial person to get the kill anyone associated with them is included.

LnS is not a right you give someone it is their right me announcing it was an added bonus trying to be forward with my intentions. I did not help anyone during the fight and ran straight for EJ/TT zone line

[Buhbuh]

Andis isn't Red Dawn.

Regardless of whether or not he's in their Teamspeak or assisting them, he was killing a naked player on a CR, which he's perfectly in his rights to do.

Heartbrand and his guild's rules (and in this case, his guild's kills) do not apply to Andis here. He wasn't CCing, and it's not a GMs duty to judge whether Andis was answerable to Red Dawn's orders not to attack Puddems any further.

That may make an interesting loophole in the future, but Andis isn't receiving DKP or working toward any items in RD, so the criteria by which he was banned seems unfair.

[Fame]

What the fuck is this?

[Ambrotos]

"Killing someone over and over again while at his or her bind-point or while they are in the process of retrieving their corpse is illegal and may result in disciplinary action taken against your account. You are expected in all cases to give someone a reasonable amount of time to recover their corpse and leave the area prior to attacking again. This also applies to raid/group/guild PvP."

You are going off of the correct rule but the rules were misapplied in this situation. Someone is only obligated to follow LNS rules if they were the one to initially kill the person. The first line makes it clear that it pertains only to the person that made the first kill when it says "killing someone over and over again."

If someone logs into the game and sees someone run by they can kill them if they wish. You can't be expected to know if someone called LNS unless you were the reason they had to call it and knew to look out for it.

The rules are actually very easy to follow when understood but I see why there is confusion with how it was worded. It is also understandable that some temporary bans will go out until these rules are understood. In the meantime, correcting misapplied bans is in order, including this case being discussed, to preserve box integrity.


If that's the case, then that's the case. We can clear up the wording and move on from there and things will reflect it. It isn't a huge deal. Either the wording needs to be better, or it is as is and it stands. I've already contacted Derubael and wait for Sirken to come out of his coma so we can talk about it.

[Edgat]

I saw exed in Gfay yesterday tracked him down and he was standing naked at the wizard spires. I took 2 seconds to stop and think "hey he is naked i shouldn't kill him" that is how long it took me. I then continued on my day.

[Andis]

thank you hippo

the suspension was mis-applied

andis is not a bad guy

[Snufz]

GMs need to make it easy on themselves, PNP shouldnt be absolute... it should ONLY be when a person dies, they OOC, CR in XXzoneXX, now they initiate PNP rules. This can be proven with logs and needs no opinions or thought process.

Otherwise how the fuck are different guilds/solo players supposed to keep track of who died where at what time in what zone etc?

[HippoNipple]

I saw exed in Gfay yesterday tracked him down and he was standing naked at the wizard spires. I took 2 seconds to stop and think "hey he is naked i shouldn't kill him" that is how long it took me. I then continued on my day.

Looks like you passed up a perfectly legal opportunity for yellow text.

[Technique]

Immediately adopting a zero-tolerance stance toward presumed violations of new, incomplete, and ill-conceived rules...

what could possibly go wrong?
GMs need to make it easy on themselves, PNP shouldnt be absolute... it should ONLY be when a person dies, they OOC, CR in XXzoneXX, now they initiate PNP rules. This can be proven with logs and needs no opinions or thought process.Exactly. Although preferably it should be invoked via /shout in zone.

[Edgat]

Killing someone while they are in the process of retrieving their corpse is illegal and may result in disciplinary action taken against your account.

seems pretty straight forward to me?

[Andis]

Killing someone while they are in the process of retrieving their corpse is illegal and may result in disciplinary action taken against your account.

seems pretty straight forward to me?

read the rules, it says "over and over"

I killed you once.

Now you're posting against this, lololol did nizzar offer you extra dkp???

[Derubael]

I'll clear up the wording later today, but let's be honest guys, allowing people to kill someone based just off the fact that they aren't the original person to kill them is fucking stupid and allows for too much abuse.

If I'm playerA and I kill playerC, I can't kill playerC again. But I'm pals with playerB and I tell him, 'hey go kill that fuck again, he deserves to die.' Then I tell playerD who I'm also pals with, 'hey go kill that fuck again, he deserves to die'. Then I tell playerE...

Also, that 1 hour thing starts after the fight is over, and the player can still go get their corpse after they die. That's why it's loot and scoot, not scoot and loot. If the person can't get their corpse for an hour after they die, that kills the spirit of the rule.

I'll post clarifications later today after sirken and I have spoken about the exact wording we want.

[Smedy]

GM Derubael so quick to ban me, he didnt even let me explain

Derubael check PMs please and thanks.

The world is our oyster bitch, better recognize

ban ban

[Bamz4l]

Gonna run naked everywhere for guarenteed safety.

ontop of that, attack people naked and claim u got corpse camped when u get YT'd, resulting in temp ban for them

[Andis]

I'll clear up the wording later today, but let's be honest guys, allowing people to kill someone based just off the fact that they aren't the original person to kill them is fucking stupid and allows for too much abuse.

If I'm playerA and I kill playerC, I can't kill playerC again. But I'm pals with playerB and I tell him, 'hey go kill that fuck again, he deserves to die.' Then I tell playerD who I'm also pals with, 'hey go kill that fuck again, he deserves to die'. Then I tell playerE...

Also, that 1 hour thing starts after the fight is over, and the player can still go get their corpse after they die. That's why it's loot and scoot, not scoot and loot. If the person can't get their corpse for an hour after they die, that kills the spirit of the rule.

I'll post clarifications later today after sirken and I have spoken about the exact wording we want.

I understand what you mean but, Im not here to order a hit squad, Im just playing the game

Rules state, over and over, I killed the man once.

Based on these posted rules, I believe my suspension was mis-applied.

[Vile]

GMs need to make it easy on themselves, PNP shouldnt be absolute... it should ONLY be when a person dies, they OOC, CR in XXzoneXX, now they initiate PNP rules. This can be proven with logs and needs no opinions or thought process.

Otherwise how the fuck are different guilds/solo players supposed to keep track of who died where at what time in what zone etc?

Winner.

Either a singe player should call LNS from X zone or a whole guild should after mass pvp.

[heartbrand]

Winner.

Either a singe player should call LNS from X zone or a whole guild should after mass pvp.

[Stasis01]

While I think examples are necessary. leniency to people who made honest mistakes might be good too.

1 week suspension is a slap on the wrist anyway, and all of this is insignificant IMO.

Growing pains of a good system.

People fought in LS earlier (I died) and people said good fight, let me get my shit and leave and we did the same for mrmojo - fun to be had by all, and I wasn't even mad.

Good fight pals.

[Retti_]

Agreed. Gms would save the server and petition queue and forum thread bandwidth if LnS was REQUESTED via OOC and not always on.

[Derubael]

Winner.

Either a singe player should call LNS from X zone or a whole guild should after mass pvp.

I like it.

Like stasis just said, growing pains of a good system.

Will get back to you guys before the day is out.

[Edgat]

Winner.

Either a singe player should call LNS from X zone or a whole guild should after mass pvp.

I did

[Andis]

so suspend the person following the posted rules

interesting

im sorry, but that is not growing pains.

[Retti_]

I like it.

Like stasis just said, growing pains of a good system.

Will get back to you guys before the day is out.

ya, its not uncommon for people to NOT want LnS. Hardcores like myself are still prepared for PvP while naked and make necessary adjustments on our spellbars and have bank sets of gear and prefer to fight for our belongings. Rather than OPTING OUT, we just won't request the LnS.

So people wont be afraid of getting banned by attacking us when we have no intentions of LnSing.

Opting in VIA /ooc IM LNSING FROM SEB (making it clear and concise) will protect those genuinely looking to follow the PnP policy and not accidentally getting themselves suspended.

I'm glad staff are being proactive and using these growing pains to create a better playground for us. Thanks Derubael!

[Tassador]

i think we also got to look at possibly suspending nakeds who help and or try to attack on LNS.

[Retti_]

so suspend the person following the posted rules

interesting

im sorry, but that is not growing pains.

you blatantly disregarded the posted rules by killing a naked on LNS

not sure why your pretending you are a white knight, your posts are even contradicting themselves in different threads

[Buhbuh]

I'll clear up the wording later today, but let's be honest guys, allowing people to kill someone based just off the fact that they aren't the original person to kill them is fucking stupid and allows for too much abuse.

If I'm playerA and I kill playerC, I can't kill playerC again. But I'm pals with playerB and I tell him, 'hey go kill that fuck again, he deserves to die.' Then I tell playerD who I'm also pals with, 'hey go kill that fuck again, he deserves to die'. Then I tell playerE...

Also, that 1 hour thing starts after the fight is over, and the player can still go get their corpse after they die. That's why it's loot and scoot, not scoot and loot. If the person can't get their corpse for an hour after they die, that kills the spirit of the rule.

I'll post clarifications later today after sirken and I have spoken about the exact wording we want.

Well then you'll probably have to alter the rules to 'no killing naked's.' If that's what you're trying to say in universal, all encompassing terms.

Either way, I wouldn't hand out bans in the beginning when the wording is still being worked on. It just feels arbitrary to the players this way.

[Holey]

KEEP ANDIS BAN, HE PRAISE HES KING, NOW HES KING IN THE BANNED LAND!

[Retti_]

i think we also got to look at possibly suspending nakeds who help and or try to attack on LNS.

If derubael updates the LnS policy to OPT-IN via global announcement, then this wont be an issue. If you see a naked that DID NOT request LNS, then feel free to root and kill. If they request LNS, then they are breaking the rules by engaging and assisting in any PvP or NOT scooting. Kill them and move on because they voided their LNS request.

If a Naked that requested LNS 5 minutes ago is getting attacked and a person (either genuinely or on purpose) didn't see the request, then the person on LNS should spam it in his face and report if the attacker doesn't back off. This way the attacker cant play stupid and argue he didn't know. The requestee has prof that he spammed it in his face.

[Dullah]

Whose not surprised this rule backfired on "the resistance" within a day?

Smilin hard as hell.

[Holey]

if andis is freed, let alone IMMEDIATELY, we will all make similar threads for every little injustice we've faced
its called an example
eat shit rule-breakers

PRAISE THE CHEWIE!

[heartbrand]

only backfired on ppl who don't listen in TS

[Retti_]

Growing pains of trying to implement a global LNS policy. Once They change it to Opt-In all of these problems will go away because there will be no second guessing and confusion.

[Andis]

only backfired on ppl who don't listen in TS

Andis just joined in as the pvp was about to start

did not hear a word about puddems

rules state, over and over

I killed the dude once, not knowing what was going on

Unless GMs put, no killin nakeds, andis did not commit a crime. Even still followed the posted rules.

[Gaffin 3.0]

mine as well reroll if ambrotos got you

[Gaffin 3.0]

oh you actually got free'd thats amazing if so

[Nizzarr]

can you add a server motd for the people that dont waste time on these horrible forums?

Not everybody that plays on red watch this cesspool. It would be nice if you update the rules, that you mention it on the server motd with a timestamp.

Otherwise, how can you hold anyone accountable for their action if rules changes every 5 hours.

[heartbrand]

can you add a server motd for the people that dont waste time on these horrible forums?

Not everybody that plays on red watch this cesspool. It would be nice if you update the rules, that you mention it on the server motd with a timestamp.

Otherwise, how can you hold anyone accountable for their action if rules changes every 5 hours.

The same way you're held accountable for tens of thousands of laws everyday that you very likely do not know, aka, ignorantia juris non excusat.

[Nizzarr]

Andis just joined in as the pvp was about to start

did not hear a word about puddems

rules state, over and over

I killed the dude once, not knowing what was going on

Unless GMs put, no killin nakeds, andis did not commit a crime. Even still followed the posted rules.

but Novus didnt JUST join the pvp and should have told you about killing naked players he just participated in killing. He was part of killing puddems in sebilis.

When you group with assholes, you get the assholes punishment too

[heartbrand]

I followed the RD Charter of not killing nakeds and therefore suffered no punishment. I advise you all to do the same.

[Nizzarr]

The same way you're held accountable for tens of thousands of laws everyday that you very likely do not know, aka, ignorantia juris non excusat.

10s of thousands of laws changes everyday?

prof plz?

[Andis]

I was rather confused as to why Lite was even in TS

I dont want anything to do with him. You all know how I feel about him.

I was just assisting Checkraise in PVP

I killed Puddems naked once, in the midst of 10v4 pvp

killed a naked once. and NOT over and over, as the PnP rules state.

server integrity, lets talk about it.

[heartbrand]

10s of thousands of laws changes everyday?

prof plz?

I guess you didn't take any poli sci classes in college, or a basic Civics/Government course in high school? You may not know this, but in Canada, you have a Parliament. They are the branch that you know, passes / modifies laws. It's made up of a Senate and a House of Commons. Much like in Britain, the House of Commons is the important part of the legislative branch. This body passes hundreds of laws a year, modifying some, creating new ones, with each bill usually being hundreds, sometimes thousands of pages long. This means that yes, at any given time thousands of laws are being modified. Also, this is just at the national level, you also have your provincial governments and local governments passing and modifying laws.

[Stasis01]

You're being a bit of a drama queen Andis.

From their clarification, people MUST be allowed LNS, and MUST scoot for 1 hr.

They don't want the long lasting battle of attrition, hence people cannot choose to loot and fight, that is against the rules.

Now that it is clear, maybe your 1 week should be lifted, or maybe it doesn't really matter either way.

Kill nakeds = punishment, Bind rushing = punishment - cut and dry.

Should the person request it? Maybe, so people know they died to PVP and not in a grp to mobs ETC. That sounds like a legit concern. If a group wipes are they required to LNS and be PVP free naked? That is what I find confusing about the Andis situation and that needs clarification.


OOC has been cleaned up - PVP has been cleaned up from what I've seen, stop bitching and jump on board.

[heartbrand]

I was rather confused as to why Lite was even in TS

I dont want anything to do with him. You all know how I feel about him.

I was just assisting Checkraise in PVP

TS permissions for 3.0 are a PITA and it's something I'm trying to set up in my spare time. If anyone knows how to do TS shit, let me know.

[Andis]

stasis killing 1 naked is not punishable, that is incorrect

confirmed on these boards by sirken and derubael themselves.

im being a drama queen?

would you like your main account suspended for 7 days, for following these new PnP rules?!?

[Supreme]

Red99 is now in the era of rules lawyers and errata. LNS worked so nicely when it was presented in concept but as i stated before the practice leaves too many loopholes and will be easily exploited.

RIP mass PVP for i suspect someone getting misclicked will result in bannings and thus pile on to tedious work load of petition resolution.


Might i suggest an appeal system run by players at the VERY least?

[heartbrand]

Here's a great website where you can see all the bills being considered by Parliament, as well as those that have passed for the current year: http://www.parl.gc.ca/LegisInfo/Home.aspx?language=E&ParliamentSession=41-2 You also may be interested to know that your Prime Minister is Stephen Harper, leader of the conservative party. They support in theory lower taxes, smaller government, less centralized government, etc. They are similar to the Republican party in the United States but still further to the left.

[Stasis01]

You're being a bit of a drama queen Andis.

From their clarification, people MUST be allowed LNS, and MUST scoot for 1 hr.

They don't want the long lasting battle of attrition, hence people cannot choose to loot and fight, that is against the rules.

Now that it is clear, maybe your 1 week should be lifted, or maybe it doesn't really matter either way.

Kill nakeds = punishment, Bind rushing = punishment - cut and dry.

Should the person request it? Maybe, so people know they died to PVP and not in a grp to mobs ETC. That sounds like a legit concern. If a group wipes are they required to LNS and be PVP free naked? That is what I find confusing about the Andis situation and that needs clarification.


OOC has been cleaned up - PVP has been cleaned up from what I've seen, stop bitching and jump on board.


You're screwing over a system that's supposed to help the resistance and new players - yes if someone dies in PVP killing them naked once is punishable.

That being said, you're making this far too complicated - usually the global YT message will clear this up, if you just logged on maybe don't just start nuking nakeds? It isn't rocket science and you're trying to create drama over all the arguments Nihilum uses to farm newbies off the box, and crush weak guilds.

Just stop?

[Supreme]

I guess you didn't take any poli sci classes in college, or a basic Civics/Government course in high school? You may not know this, but in Canada, you have a Parliament. They are the branch that you know, passes / modifies laws. It's made up of a Senate and a House of Commons. Much like in Britain, the House of Commons is the important part of the legislative branch. This body passes hundreds of laws a year, modifying some, creating new ones, with each bill usually being hundreds, sometimes thousands of pages long. This means that yes, at any given time thousands of laws are being modified. Also, this is just at the national level, you also have your provincial governments and local governments passing and modifying laws.

You are incorrect.

taken from http://ptbc.ca.gov/laws/laws_regs.shtml

Laws are created by statutes that originate from legislative bills originally introduced by either the Senate or the Assembly. For example, in 1953 the Physical Therapy Practice Act (Act) was created by Chapter 1823 because of AB 1001. The Physical Therapy Practice Act begins with §2600 in the Business and Professions Code (B&P Code) and governs the practice of physical therapy. The Act, statutes, laws and B&P Code could be considered synonymous.

Regulations are standards (see the Rulemaking Process below) adopted as rules by the Physical Therapy Board of California to implement, interpret, or make specific the law enforced or administered by the Physical Therapy Practice Act. Regulations must be approved by the Office of Administrative Law, and filed with the Secretary of State.

[Stasis01]

Take your week like a man, or make a legitimate complaint over the issue of not knowing if someone died PVP or PVE to people just logging on - and asking if people should be required to call it (which he did?)

I don't understand your complaint. LNS was called, you missed it and killed a naked guy for what purpose? 7 days you have multiple characters is not the end of the world.

[Smedy]

THE WORLD IS OUR OYSTER

[Smedy]

Andis u know i love you bro but you've just been oyster'd son

I ain't even gonna logon with this crazy rules, i'd get banned within a minute from some tricky nihilum claiming i was breaking a rule

[Holey]

I was rather confused as to why Lite was even in TS

I dont want anything to do with him. You all know how I feel about him.

I was just assisting Checkraise in PVP

I killed Puddems naked once, in the midst of 10v4 pvp

killed a naked once. and NOT over and over, as the PnP rules state.

server integrity, lets talk about it.

pshhhhh you killed me naked when i was afk and it was OVER AND OVER lol

[Stasis01]

It's actually working good in-game and people aren't spamming OOC and trying to shit in others cheerios.

This situation is so blown out of proportion it's ridiculous.

Andis logs on, kills a naked guy who shouted LNS and is outraged that he took a week AFTER they said they are making examples of people killing nakeds.

Ridiculous. Stay strong GM pals.

[Andis]

I had just logged on, why wouldnt I kill puddems running through mass pvp? as I fight 10 nihi vs our 4?

I am not screwing over the system, the system is great - with tweeks needed. Just like this one.

I want the suspension revoked, cuz I followed the rules and I would like to immerse.

[Derubael]

The guy did request LnS in zone btw. In shout.

[Stasis01]

LNS was requested, you logged on with no knowledge of the fight, and the guy was naked.

How often will you log into mass pvp with no pre knowledge of what's going on - almost fucking never.

Talk about stupid fucking bullshit.

[heartbrand]

First of all, grats on pulling that directly from http://ptbc.ca.gov/laws/laws_regs.shtml. That is a site that is discussing laws and regulations related to the Physical Therapy Board of Canada, something I will fully admit, I know little to nothing about. It also basically says exactly what I said. Laws come from Bills, (you may remember those things called Bills from this video as a kid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3KHBczTYxA) which originate from the Legislative branch. Oh fuck it, I'll just take it straight from wikipedia:

"Laws, known in their draft form as bills, may be introduced by any member of either house. However, most bills originate in the House of Commons, of which most are put forward by ministers of the Crown, making them government bills, as opposed to private members' bills or private senators' bills, which are launched by MPs and senators, respectively, who are not in cabinet. Draft legislation may also be categorised as public bills, if they apply to the general public, or private bills, if they concern a particular person or limited group of people. Each bill then goes through a series of stages in each chamber, beginning with the first reading. It is not, however, until the bill's second reading that the general principles of the proposed law are debated; though rejection is a possibility, such is not common for government bills."

Ultimately if they're passed they get sent to the Governor General who is the Queen's representative in Canada for Royal Assent (basically like how the U.S. President signs bills into law), and it's give 99.999999% of the time and basically 100% of the time in the Modern Era.

[Holey]

LNS was requested, you logged on with no knowledge of the fight, and the guy was naked.

How often will you log into mass pvp with no pre knowledge of what's going on - almost fucking never.

Talk about stupid fucking bullshit.

dman you all have some shitty communication. LOL

[Andis]

they are making examples of people WHO DONT FOLLOW the PnP

I am allowed to kill a naked person at any time I want

I am not allowed to kill a person in PVP, have them come loot, and KILL THEM AGAIN

you are getting confused I think

[meatspin]

what has the server come to. i take a break for a week around christmas and its all kinds of fucked up

[Holey]

they are making examples of people WHO DONT FOLLOW the PnP

I am allowed to kill a naked person at any time I want

I am not allowed to kill a person in PVP, have them come loot, and KILL THEM AGAIN

you are getting confused I think

you are banned sir just stfu and play on.

[heartbrand]

Waiting on Supreme to show me how I'm incorrect that bills originate from the Legislative branch and are passed into law.

[Stasis01]

Sorry getting a little heated pal, hate when people make mountains out of mole hills instead of just either taking it, or sending a private message instead of giving ammo for all the fucking hardcore griefers/scumbags that this place has turned into to ruin the new PNP that is supposed to promote fun PVP and new players actually staying here.

[Andis]

The guy did request LnS in zone btw. In shout.

requested or not, I thought it was implied?

I was not on to see a puddems YT - I had just logged in

in the heat of a 10v4 derubael, would u notice a shout?

come on now.

[Holey]

requested or not, I thought it was implied?

I was not on to see a puddems YT - I had just logged in

in the heat of a 10v4 derubael, would u notice a shout?

come on now.

do you only use 1 window for chat/melee/spells/emotes

[Stasis01]

they are making examples of people WHO DONT FOLLOW the PnP

I am allowed to kill a naked person at any time I want

I am not allowed to kill a person in PVP, have them come loot, and KILL THEM AGAIN

you are getting confused I think

That is NOT true, you cannot kill naked people. The only argument you may have is if someone died to mobs and not a player which is still out for clarification.

It is you that is confused.

[Andis]

Sorry getting a little heated pal, hate when people make mountains out of mole hills instead of just either taking it, or sending a private message instead of giving ammo for all the fucking hardcore griefers/scumbags that this place has turned into to ruin the new PNP that is supposed to promote fun PVP and new players actually staying here.

by no means am I even trying to demote these new PnP

I think it is a great idea

the purpose of this - is to get my suspension revoked - for following PnP

[Andis]

That is NOT true, you cannot kill naked people. The only argument you may have is if someone died to mobs and not a player which is still out for clarification.

It is you that is confused.

Sirken OOcd last night, after I said, so you cant kill nakeds anymore?"

Sirken OOCs, wait why cant you kill nakeds???????????

you my friend stasis are getting my motives confused.

[Stasis01]

Since he called LNS he did everything he could to show that he was looting from PVP and scooting - if you didn't read shout and blew up a naked player the day after PNP was created to prevent that action you're really hurting the new rule more than the people who use it to keep the population low and shitty.

[Andis]

"Killing someone over and over again while at his or her bind-point or while they are in the process of retrieving their corpse is illegal and may result in disciplinary action taken against your account. You are expected in all cases to give someone a reasonable amount of time to recover their corpse and leave the area prior to attacking again. This also applies to raid/group/guild PvP."

You are going off of the correct rule but the rules were misapplied in this situation. Someone is only obligated to follow LNS rules if they were the one to initially kill the person. The first line makes it clear that it pertains only to the person that made the first kill when it says "killing someone over and over again."

If someone logs into the game and sees someone run by they can kill them if they wish. You can't be expected to know if someone called LNS unless you were the reason they had to call it and knew to look out for it.

The rules are actually very easy to follow when understood but I see why there is confusion with how it was worded. It is also understandable that some temporary bans will go out until these rules are understood. In the meantime, correcting misapplied bans is in order, including this case being discussed, to preserve box integrity.

[heartbrand]

I guess you didn't take any poli sci classes in college, or a basic Civics/Government course in high school? You may not know this, but in Canada, you have a Parliament. They are the branch that you know, passes / modifies laws. It's made up of a Senate and a House of Commons. Much like in Britain, the House of Commons is the important part of the legislative branch. This body passes hundreds of laws a year, modifying some, creating new ones, with each bill usually being hundreds, sometimes thousands of pages long. This means that yes, at any given time thousands of laws are being modified. Also, this is just at the national level, you also have your provincial governments and local governments passing and modifying laws.

You are incorrect.

taken from http://ptbc.ca.gov/laws/laws_regs.shtml

Laws are created by statutes that originate from legislative bills originally introduced by either the Senate or the Assembly. For example, in 1953 the Physical Therapy Practice Act (Act) was created by Chapter 1823 because of AB 1001. The Physical Therapy Practice Act begins with §2600 in the Business and Professions Code (B&P Code) and governs the practice of physical therapy. The Act, statutes, laws and B&P Code could be considered synonymous.

Regulations are standards (see the Rulemaking Process below) adopted as rules by the Physical Therapy Board of California to implement, interpret, or make specific the law enforced or administered by the Physical Therapy Practice Act. Regulations must be approved by the Office of Administrative Law, and filed with the Secretary of State.


First of all, grats on pulling that directly from http://ptbc.ca.gov/laws/laws_regs.shtml. That is a site that is discussing laws and regulations related to the Physical Therapy Board of Canada, something I will fully admit, I know little to nothing about. It also basically says exactly what I said. Laws come from Bills, (you may remember those things called Bills from this video as a kid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3KHBczTYxA) which originate from the Legislative branch. Oh fuck it, I'll just take it straight from wikipedia:

"Laws, known in their draft form as bills, may be introduced by any member of either house. However, most bills originate in the House of Commons, of which most are put forward by ministers of the Crown, making them government bills, as opposed to private members' bills or private senators' bills, which are launched by MPs and senators, respectively, who are not in cabinet. Draft legislation may also be categorised as public bills, if they apply to the general public, or private bills, if they concern a particular person or limited group of people. Each bill then goes through a series of stages in each chamber, beginning with the first reading. It is not, however, until the bill's second reading that the general principles of the proposed law are debated; though rejection is a possibility, such is not common for government bills."

Ultimately if they're passed they get sent to the Governor General who is the Queen's representative in Canada for Royal Assent (basically like how the U.S. President signs bills into law), and it's give 99.999999% of the time and basically 100% of the time in the Modern Era.

Waiting on Supreme to show me how I'm incorrect that bills originate from the Legislative branch and are passed into law.

Note that Supreme edited his post to show he ripped it off of a site verbatim.

[Andis]

LnS is implied, doesnt matter what he calls

I am still entitled to kill any person, naked or not, once

especially a nihilum trying to CR, where mass pvp is going down

there is no argument here

[Stasis01]

You were grouped with Novus who killed Puddems initially, like was said earlier - use some common sense ask what's going on, don't just jump on killing nakeds when you log on and claim ignorance.

Typical shady bullshit, "blah blah blah I didn't know so I targetted the naked person out of 10 people for the lulz"

We all see it, you're denying it, obvious as fuck.

[Ambrotos]

Stop using the bullshit excuse of mass pvp. You tracked down a nude ranger who just got ported in to EJ. You saw them, ran past, then ran back to them and killed them. At no other time did I see anyone else other than the 3 person gank squad.

When you make the excuse of MASS PVP, you make it sound like everyone is attacking everyone right then and there and you can't even read any chat. Stop trying to lie. Not to mention they even shouted it about 10 seconds before you engaged them. You made the excuse you saw them shout it in DLs, so it's pretty clear you can read your chat.

Things go better when you don't rant and rave, and talk yourself in a circle trying to wiggle out of something.

[Andis]

Novus assisted me in killing him

wtf are you talking about dude

[heartbrand]

Ya dunno I like Andis but nakeds are nakeds. But then again this rule just came out, seems to be some confusion [probably because it's terribly worded and the explanations on page 17 of a 50 page thread were never incorporated into the OP], and could prolly use some leniency while it's being rolled out. Shrug.

[Stasis01]

This just proves that people need to chill out on all sides, not just Nihilum - the attitude of Red99 is 3 years of normal people leaving, and only the hardcore griefers surviving.

I'm sure I'll piss off people on all sides supporting the rule, I'm OK with it, it'll benefit the box overall.

[Retti_]

2v1 a naked

mass pvp

legit

[Supreme]

Waiting on Supreme to show me how I'm incorrect that bills originate from the Legislative branch and are passed into law.

You stated that thousands of laws are changed everyday.

The fact is that Laws are rarely changed only the regulations of those laws are changed.

Yes it might be splitting hairs as regulations hold as much authority as the law itself...however to change a Law requires voting and ratification and thus rarely comes to pass.

Really clarifying your statement more than correcting you.

[Derubael]

Everyone settle down. Andis, I'll get with you later.

Again, will edit the PnP after Sirken and I talk.