Adjust Epic Quests

[Sotre]

Now I know it's not classic, or Kunark, or even Live (I think) but could it be possible to adjust epic quests to not be such exercises in tedium or down right boredom, culminating in a mad dash to get your friends to the mob that you've been camping for the last month in first?

I just came to the realization that I'm not having a whole lot of fun sitting on a lvl 1 character staring top down at a room in Neriak with 1 or 2 other lvl 1's hoping that a mob we all need will spawn, also hoping that when I afk (you know for work, sleep, food, etc) it doesn't spawn. I've got a lot of time to post unworkable questions on forums right now because of this. The simple solution is to bump of up the spawn timers by something like a factor of 24, instead of a 2 - 7 day respawn, a 2 - 7 hour. Might be too much of a cut but I'm on the hurry and wait half of the equation.

For other classes the situation is better and worse. Better because most guilds have reasons to fight in the planes and gods/dragons, worse because those same gods/dragons are on multi day respawn timers and are even more contested because the epic item needed is not the only desireable that comes from these heavily contested targets. In a situation like this I'd expect to introduce the desired epic item to a different NPC's loot table and put it's respawn timer on par with some of these other epic NPC's.

As an aside to anyone who would argue this wouldn't be fair to the people that already have their epics, EQ isn't particularly fair or balanced so congrats on being first and getting it while it's hard. Secondly while your implementing these changes you can kill the ability to MQ half the epics... but let me go grab those cleric/rogue/shaman epics for my low level alts first.

I'm 90% positive nothing will come from this post but hey, I'm bored and I've checked back into EQ at least 2 dozen times in the process of typing this and I now need to afk to go do some work... Verina Tomb spawn inc.

[fadetree]

It's not supposed to be fun, I don't think. It's supposed to be epic. Epically hard, epically annoying, epically awesome, take your pick. But not fun. At least you have a doable one. I'm never going to see mine.

[Ele]

This is what Gordon had to say back in October 2000:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010104095200/http://eq.castersrealm.com/viewarticle.asp?Article=2746

Source: EverQuest General Discussion Forums.

You know Abashi or Gordon or what ever you want to be called, this attitude of the I hate it for you the epic quest items are not for everyone really pisses me off. That is complete bull crap. I pay 9.95 a month, and I expect to be treated fairly. If you guys cant treat all players the same and make it where this stuff is atainable by all. And not make items available by only the elite few. Then you are not being Fair to every one and last I checked every one pays pretty much the same amount of money. Wake up and be fair to the Majority of players not the elite few.
Given the same dedication, ability, knowledge, and network of friends, you have the same chance of obtaining any item in the game as anyone else. All players are being treated the same way, that does not mean that every player will get the same things as every other player in the same calendar period.

Gordon then responded to another post on the same topic:

Please explain yourself. In another post you said that these items were never meant to come into the game enmass because that would throw off the balance of the game. What you are really saying here is that if you don't play the game 40 hours a week, or don't belong to an uber guild, your just SOL.

The quests are meant to be completed by people who can get help from a good number of other people. While I don't think that it means that you *must* be in a "uberguild", it certainly wouldn't hurt. These are top of the line items, and "top of the line" items aren't typically meant to be acquired solo.

So far it appears that everyone who has recieved the EPIC weapon has been a member or a friend of just such a guild.

I imagine that it's hard to find someone in the 50-60 range who could get enough support without having a guild or friends in such a guild to help.

If this is the case, just come out and tell us that most players will not be able to obtain their class defining weapon because they are either not connected socially or they have a life away from the game.

The vast majority of players in the level range to acquire these items is either in, or have friends in, a guild. Still, most players will not obtain the epic quest item period, regardless of guild status or level. Though I understand your feelings regarding the issue, it is intended to be this way. As I've posted before, no one is "entitled" to items in the game. Things that we want universally available are sold on vendors.

Guys, it's about prestige. These are meant to be prestigous items to have. If everyone has them, there's no prestige in having one.

- Gordon

[Ravager]

It's a game. Games are supposed to be fun. This was just poor game design, but it's how it was. It could have been epic without causing bedsores, but this was one of the first games of it's kind and it was a perpetual work in progress. Plus, the longer they kept you playing, the more they got in subscription fees.

I never played a chanter though; does Verina get a revamp with the rest of the epic quests or does she stay a bottleneck?

[Messianic]

I just came to the realization that I'm not having a whole lot of fun sitting on a lvl 1 character staring top down at a room in Neriak with 1 or 2 other lvl 1's hoping that a mob we all need will spawn, also hoping that when I afk (you know for work, sleep, food, etc) it doesn't spawn.

Let me FTFY:

I'm bored of EQ

[khanable]

og devs want epics to be very rare

makes rogue epic


SCUMBAGS

[Daldaen]

Really the Velious Epic changes are what should go in now if anything. What with the whole us being in Kunark for 33 months. Whereas live had Kunark for 8 and the epics patched to be easier after 12.

[Millburn]

It's a game. Games are supposed to be fun. This was just poor game design, but it's how it was. It could have been epic without causing bedsores, but this was one of the first games of it's kind and it was a perpetual work in progress. Plus, the longer they kept you playing, the more they got in subscription fees.

I never played a chanter though; does Verina get a revamp with the rest of the epic quests or does she stay a bottleneck?

I disagree with the whole notion that games are "supposed" to be fun. I hear this a lot from people and it bothers me that this notion keeps circulating that games end goal should be to provide fun. There are a lot of things I find fun about Everquest and the other games I play but there's also a lot of things about them that are simply not fun. The common thread that I've found through all the games that I've ended up sticking with is a sense of satisfaction. Be that immediate satisfaction or delayed satisfaction, regardless the sense of accomplishment is still there. To force a game to always be "fun" is to limit its options and its capacity to be satisfying.

[fadetree]

Engaging games are actually about what you *can't* do, not what you can.

[Nirgon]

This is what Gordon had to say back in October 2000:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010104095200/http://eq.castersrealm.com/viewarticle.asp?Article=2746

Source: EverQuest General Discussion Forums.

You know Abashi or Gordon or what ever you want to be called, this attitude of the I hate it for you the epic quest items are not for everyone really pisses me off. That is complete bull crap. I pay 9.95 a month, and I expect to be treated fairly. If you guys cant treat all players the same and make it where this stuff is atainable by all. And not make items available by only the elite few. Then you are not being Fair to every one and last I checked every one pays pretty much the same amount of money. Wake up and be fair to the Majority of players not the elite few.
Given the same dedication, ability, knowledge, and network of friends, you have the same chance of obtaining any item in the game as anyone else. All players are being treated the same way, that does not mean that every player will get the same things as every other player in the same calendar period.

Gordon then responded to another post on the same topic:

Please explain yourself. In another post you said that these items were never meant to come into the game enmass because that would throw off the balance of the game. What you are really saying here is that if you don't play the game 40 hours a week, or don't belong to an uber guild, your just SOL.

The quests are meant to be completed by people who can get help from a good number of other people. While I don't think that it means that you *must* be in a "uberguild", it certainly wouldn't hurt. These are top of the line items, and "top of the line" items aren't typically meant to be acquired solo.

So far it appears that everyone who has recieved the EPIC weapon has been a member or a friend of just such a guild.

I imagine that it's hard to find someone in the 50-60 range who could get enough support without having a guild or friends in such a guild to help.

If this is the case, just come out and tell us that most players will not be able to obtain their class defining weapon because they are either not connected socially or they have a life away from the game.

The vast majority of players in the level range to acquire these items is either in, or have friends in, a guild. Still, most players will not obtain the epic quest item period, regardless of guild status or level. Though I understand your feelings regarding the issue, it is intended to be this way. As I've posted before, no one is "entitled" to items in the game. Things that we want universally available are sold on vendors.

Guys, it's about prestige. These are meant to be prestigous items to have. If everyone has them, there's no prestige in having one.

- Gordon

Best post of the year, a late contender but a winner no less.

[Splorf22]

Really the Velious Epic changes are what should go in now if anything. What with the whole us being in Kunark for 33 months. Whereas live had Kunark for 8 and the epics patched to be easier after 12.

IKSAR PLANES ARMOR

[Argh]

og devs want epics to be very rare

makes rogue epic


SCUMBAGS

lold

[Atmas]

It's a game. Games are supposed to be fun. This was just poor game design, but it's how it was. It could have been epic without causing bedsores, but this was one of the first games of it's kind and it was a perpetual work in progress. Plus, the longer they kept you playing, the more they got in subscription fees.


I would argue that it is not just simply poor game design. Everquest intended, successfully imo, to create a sense of value in items and encounters by making them difficult to obtain.

Velious would resolve a lot of issues with epics. In addition to new content freeing up spawns, many quests get adjusted to be not so bottlenecky.

[Hitpoint]

Disagree with OP.

Engaging games are actually about what you *can't* do, not what you can.

Agreed.

[Nirgon]

Velious would resolve a lot of issues

A very well informed individual posting.

[Bruman]

Best post of the year, a late contender but a winner no less.

Not sure how a post 13 years ago is post of the year.

Anywhos, to OP - "Welcome to EverQuest".

Also, always feel free to think outside the box. EQ is a social game first and foremost, and there are always different ways for people to solve issues. Try talking to the people, see if you can start a list with ways to contact one another when their turn is due? Even take it out of game if needed. Try to start a rotation. The server had Ragefire on rotation for a very long time. Guilds that were "next in line" would often even help the current guild if it was that horrible 4am spawn or some garbage. You have an uphill battle, but if it's worth it to you, there are ways to make it work.

[Raavak]

og devs want epics to be very rare

makes rogue epic


SCUMBAGSThe thing that pissed me off the most was how some epics were so easy and some were insanely hard. Thanks Verant!

[webrunner5]

The thing that pissed me off the most was how some epics were so easy and some were insanely hard. Thanks Verant!

Very true. :o

[Daldaen]

IKSAR PLANES ARMOR

Basically this.

A lot of the fixes to Kunark content that were finally addressed after Velious I wouldn't mind going in now. So far as that they don't add content. IE Full Planar revamps shouldn't happen. Bug fixes like iksars having a decent armor set and some epic bottlenecks getting removed would be sweet.

It's classic, 20 months past classic infact.

[Nirgon]

Not sure how a post 13 years ago is post of the year.


He uses information from then to make a point today, and it stands well.

When you can't say it better yourself, quote the original source.

Even better, it speaks to the intentions of the game from the words of the creators. If you want to spin the content/mechanics of this game into something that serves your interests better, you are welcome to try after he posted that.

Post of the year, this year, is served as a reminder.

[heartbrand]

If only there was a server without variance where you could compete for mobs rather than try to be FTE.

[indiscriminate_hater]

swish.gif

[radditsu]

on live could you skip most of the rogue epic? If you did not skip the skippable parts it would be a pain in the ass.

[Argh]

The particle density of the epic is equal to its difficulty

[Daldaen]

Paladin epic says what?

[Raavak]

on live could you skip most of the rogue epic? If you did not skip the skippable parts it would be a pain in the ass.Isn't the skippable part just the robe collection? Skipped with that rare drop from the General?

What makes the rogue epic so easy is it doesn't require any God or dragon loot. Just some common planar pieces that can be MQ'd and some expensive robes.

[cs616]

Isn't the skippable part just the robe collection? Skipped with that rare drop from the General?

What makes the rogue epic so easy is it doesn't require any God or dragon loot. Just some common planar pieces that can be MQ'd and some expensive robes.

Wasn't the burning rapier supposed to be a pre-quest to the epic? Kind of like Jeb's Seal for the enchanter. The fact that you could skip it, and other portions of the quest if you got lucky on drops (cazic quill), made like 1/2 the quest unnecessary to do.

But yea, the no god/dragon loot thing is pretty slick too.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Hell, just open up a p99 store, with p99 dollars, and you can buy tokens to spawn needed mobs.

Also, when are mercenaries being put in?

[Daldaen]

Or... Just implement patches that fixed things that the same developers which created the quest, saw in hindsight were errors. Patches that occurred 13 months after Kunark or 8_9~ after epics were introduced... If we were following that timeline then about 20 months ago.

I don't particularly like the OPs suggestion cause not classic. But the one I've posted is classic and should be implemented.

[myriverse]

None of the great epic adventures of mankind were done with a person and 50 of their best friends. To be honest, this makes it seem like less of a personal effort, and this has always been my main problem with the raid scene.

[Ravager]

Wasn't the burning rapier supposed to be a pre-quest to the epic? Kind of like Jeb's Seal for the enchanter. The fact that you could skip it, and other portions of the quest if you got lucky on drops (cazic quill), made like 1/2 the quest unnecessary to do.

But yea, the no god/dragon loot thing is pretty slick too.

Skippable things you had to get for the Rogue Epic:

Burning Rapier (Long 30+ Quest)
Rapier of Martune (Plane of Hate)
Eyerazzia (Plane of Fear)
Rapier of Orrin (Howling Stones)

Fleshripper (Sol B King)
Painbringer (Sol B Champion)
Mithril Two Hander (Lower Guk King)
Gigantic Zweihander (Everfrost Karg Icebear)

Robe of the Kedge (Kedge Phinny)
Robe of the Oracle (Ocean of Tears Oracle)
Robe of the Ishva (Paw Ishva Mal)
Shining Metallic Robes (Lower Guk Ghoul Arch Magus)

What these turn-ins got you were a pouch that spawns Stanos, but you never need because he can be spawned with a phrase. Jagged Diamond Dagger, which you never needed because Renux, a mob you have to kill in the quest anyway drops it every time. And the Cazic Quill, which rarely drops from the last fight of the epic.

Further, the robes for the only part not guaranteed by the spawned raid mobs were put into accompanying quest mobs, so that you could just kill them instead of going to Kedge, Paw and Guk. So, yeah, the rogue epic should have been much more epic in scope, but someone had a soft spot for rogues and wanted to see everyone with a Ragebringer.

[SirAlvarex]

Considering the DPS disparity with the rogue epic, I wonder if that was on purpose...

Because from the sounds of it, it would have been a much more annoying quest if you had to spawn Stanos with an item (and he depopped after set time, meaning you better be ready for the next part...or farm multiple items).

Everquest is unfortunately the victim of "being early" when it comes to quest design. Now we know that *obviously* all quests should be equal. E.G. each epic should have a 7-day spawn kill, or none of them do. But back in 99? These quests seem more lore-driven in scope, and the idea of making them all balanced yet different probably wasn't a priority. Heck, it even has a feel of "different teams did different quests."

That's all conjecture tho. The Bard epic, for example, is a *really* easy quest when it comes to guessing the next step / time sinks until you get to Trak. The only "guessing" is with the Dragon Guts being rare spawns on cycles in Kunark. Some quests like the Wizard one are just...blargh.

The epics are prestigious tho. And even though I've never acquired one on any character, I still think it's cool that some of them are uber hard.

[Tikker]

the other part that did't get tied in properly, was killing stanos for high elf mask, then killing king of felwithe

[tankh]

I actually love the fact that verant did not give in to whinging casuals.

I will never own a Ferrari in real life who should I complain to ? God ?

[Emile]

I don't think anyone is looking for a handout, just for some of the camps to be a little bit more reasonable. It is the same argument that was made back then, and apparently devs agreed since so many of the bottlenecks were made spawnable in Velious.

[Dweed]

I was sad when it seemed Verina and Vessel, for the enchanter epic, did not respawn alongside all the other mobs during Sunday night's reset.

Maybe I\m just crazy.

[nothsa]

that's because it was a manual respawn

[Pariad]

Not sure if troll.

[Enygma]

This is what Gordon had to say back in October 2000:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010104095200/http://eq.castersrealm.com/viewarticle.asp?Article=2746

Source: EverQuest General Discussion Forums.

You know Abashi or Gordon or what ever you want to be called, this attitude of the I hate it for you the epic quest items are not for everyone really pisses me off. That is complete bull crap. I pay 9.95 a month, and I expect to be treated fairly. If you guys cant treat all players the same and make it where this stuff is atainable by all. And not make items available by only the elite few. Then you are not being Fair to every one and last I checked every one pays pretty much the same amount of money. Wake up and be fair to the Majority of players not the elite few.
Given the same dedication, ability, knowledge, and network of friends, you have the same chance of obtaining any item in the game as anyone else. All players are being treated the same way, that does not mean that every player will get the same things as every other player in the same calendar period.

Gordon then responded to another post on the same topic:

Please explain yourself. In another post you said that these items were never meant to come into the game enmass because that would throw off the balance of the game. What you are really saying here is that if you don't play the game 40 hours a week, or don't belong to an uber guild, your just SOL.

The quests are meant to be completed by people who can get help from a good number of other people. While I don't think that it means that you *must* be in a "uberguild", it certainly wouldn't hurt. These are top of the line items, and "top of the line" items aren't typically meant to be acquired solo.

So far it appears that everyone who has recieved the EPIC weapon has been a member or a friend of just such a guild.

I imagine that it's hard to find someone in the 50-60 range who could get enough support without having a guild or friends in such a guild to help.

If this is the case, just come out and tell us that most players will not be able to obtain their class defining weapon because they are either not connected socially or they have a life away from the game.

The vast majority of players in the level range to acquire these items is either in, or have friends in, a guild. Still, most players will not obtain the epic quest item period, regardless of guild status or level. Though I understand your feelings regarding the issue, it is intended to be this way. As I've posted before, no one is "entitled" to items in the game. Things that we want universally available are sold on vendors.

Guys, it's about prestige. These are meant to be prestigous items to have. If everyone has them, there's no prestige in having one.

- Gordon

+1 ... this is the reason we all play here and not World of Warcraft - if you want hand outs there's a different game for you... or there was a week ago anyway...

[Elements]

og devs want epics to be very rare

makes rogue epic


SCUMBAGS

After having mained a rogue on live during this time period, rogues had a hard enough time. An easier than most epic was balanced no?