Question about Necro/Druid Charming

[Hiyodori]

I am quite new to this server and the game (about one month on this server and only played for a very short duration a long time ago) so I have quite a few questions in regards to the game.

My question for this post is in regards to charming creatures for druids (animals) and necromancers (undead).

I have done a lot of internet searches going through many old conversations of EQ players debating whether charisma played a roll charming spells for all the classes and also whether it played a roll for druids and necromancers. Here is the basic conclusion that I have come to in regards to Everquest players not from P1999 but 10 years ago in Everquest Live.

The order of importance in charming is Creature Level>MR>Charisma, which is also the order they seem to be checked in.

Enchanters and Bards definately seem to check charisma when charming creatures. From individual testing, it seemed to have a SIGNIFIGANT effect on the initial charm spell landing or not. One test showed that charm was resisted 0% of the time with high charisma and 32% with low charisma, but in regards to duration only seemed to extend the charm about 11% longer.

With respect to druids, one individuals testing showed that high charisma made the duration of the charms last about 7.5% longer than with low charisma. Unfortunately, this study did not mention anything about initial resists or not. The conclusion here was that charisma did play a role, but not as big of one as it did for enchanters and bards. This would coincide with what developers at the time said, which was they didn't expect necromancers to be very charismatic so the affect of the attribute would be less for their charms than that of enchanters.

I could not find any necromancer studies that actually listed data. Only claims from posters.

This being said, these studies were conducted by individuals playing on live a long time ago. Henceforth, I tried to find a P1999 forum post with some credible evidence about whether or not druid/necromancer charm checked charisma or not and came upon a short post that said something about patch notes saying that druid charm would function like the necromancer charm not checking charisma. (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37323)

-So, I am looking for a link to the patch notes on the P1999 forum that state the change in charming for druids whereas charisma would no longer make a difference.

-Also, I just am looking for some hard evidence of how necromancer charm works (i.e. whether it checks charisma or not). So, if anyone can post a link to some credible evidence (i.e. P1999 programmer patch notes, explanation, etc.), that would be very helpful.

Again, I've read through many posts of people saying charisma does or doesn't have an effect on necromancer/druid charming, so please put a link in your comment to verify what you are trying to claim so we can avoid speculation. If anyone can find a link to a P1999 who has read through the code and knows EXACTLY how it works on P1999, I would be extatic! That would be cool.

Thanks so much for the time guys in reading this and hopefully I can find a nice link to get the answer to this question because I am thinking about making an alt. for pure fun and was thinking about doing a necromancer that only charms his pets or druid. Oh yeah! I also read something about magicians charming pets, is that in P1999? I'm new to this game and server so be nice and slow in explaining.

P.S. - I have got to lvl 50 on my main character playing a little more than a month and am really enjoying the people that play here (for the most part =P)

[Yinikren]

Without digging the info up (time constraints), rest assured that CHA was patched some time ago to not have an effect on DRU or NEC charms. It only affects ENC (and BRD, I believe) charms currently.

[Hiyodori]

Thanks for the reply, do appreciate it. Anyone savvy with this website care to dig up those patchnotes claiming this? Here's a forum conversation saying the same thing as you Yini and the guy said he was too lazy to look for them hehe. http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85262

Anyone care to search out the patch notes with this information? Also, if you can find them I'm curious if anyone knows why the p1999 staff would take charisma out of the equation regarding necromancer/druid charms (or if they weren't taken out but lessened, please submit a link to some evidence, that would be awesome)

[Yinikren]

Lol, sorry sir, am at work or I would. It was some time ago, if that helps.

[Autotune]

CHA has no effects on necro charms.

[Rellapse36]

Stealin,Nilbog watch out bros TORNADOS INC

[Llodd]

go shaman charm , make it real

[Autotune]

Stealin,Nilbog watch out bros TORNADOS INC

SNOWNADOS!

[JerSar]

Hay I did the. Didn't read u pot post but necromancer charm = ok. That is all

[Hiyodori]

Just wanted to give the thread a bump so hopefully someone can link the patch notes regarding the druid/necro charming change from checking charisma to not checking charisma. If anyone has a link to ALL of the previous patch notes on P1999, that would suffice as well as I can go through the notes myself to locate the specific one. One of the threads mentioned April and was written in 2010 so maybe around that time perhaps?

- Side note question, can magicians charm elementals on p1999?

[Autotune]

Just wanted to give the thread a bump so hopefully someone can link the patch notes regarding the druid/necro charming change from checking charisma to not checking charisma. If anyone has a link to ALL of the previous patch notes on P1999, that would suffice as well as I can go through the notes myself to locate the specific one. One of the threads mentioned April and was written in 2010 so maybe around that time perhaps?

- Side note question, can magicians charm elementals on p1999?

GO to the news & announcements forum section and go to the last page and just go through each patch notes update thread. It may or may not be in one of those, but I can already tell you that druid and necro charms are unaffected by charisma.

and your side note makes me wonder if you're trolling.

[Hiyodori]

Thanks autotone for the help, I will look through those once I am done translating some documents for work. I really appreciate the help on locating those. =)

I'm new to the game so just curious about the magician thing because when I was tyring to find the charisma related question in old everquest forum posts, one said something about magician charm being unrelated to charisma. So I looked at the p1999 wiki for magician spells and did not see any charm related effects. But I deifnately saw some old everuqest forums regarding magician charming. (My guess is elementals but I have no idea what a magician could charm). Not trying to troll anyone. =(

[Autotune]

Thanks autotone for the help, I will look through those once I am done translating some documents for work. I really appreciate the help on locating those. =)

I'm new to the game so just curious about the magician thing because when I was tyring to find the charisma related question in old everquest forum posts, one said something about magician charm being unrelated to charisma. So I looked at the p1999 wiki for magician spells and did not see any charm related effects. But I deifnately saw some old everuqest forums regarding magician charming. (My guess is elementals but I have no idea what a magician could charm). Not trying to troll anyone. =(

I'm pretty sure they don't have charms yet and don't get them until one of the later expansions.

[Clark]

Without digging the info up (time constraints), rest assured that CHA was patched some time ago to not have an effect on DRU or NEC charms. It only affects ENC (and BRD, I believe) charms currently.

[fadetree]

I think I remember that on live it was rumored that CHA had an effect on nec charms, but it was inverted, that is, the LOWER your cha was the better. No idea if that was even true though.

[Hiyodori]

From a lot of the threads I read about this issue, there was the idea that lower charisma would increase the chance of fear landing. That was credibly debunked by a few studies with posted results (I only refer to studies with posted results b/c otherwise you have no data to make a concrete conclusion. I guess there is always a chance that somone would post false data but posting pages and pages of boring data to do so would require an awkward persona)

I do believe that on p1999 that necro and druid charm does not check charisma b/c some of the forum posts referring to a patch that changed it. I just want to read the patch notes myself because I am interested in the wording of it and also hoping to locate who worked on the patch. But, in original EQ live a few druid testing with charm did show a DRASTIC change in resists of the initial cast of the charm landing or not (seriously, it went from about 30% of the time resisting to almost 0% and sometimes 0% in some studies) and also about a 7% extension of the duration of the charm. Which sounds like that would make a lot sense because as the charm continues, the checks become more and more difficult to make. Henceforth, the checking order of Creature LVL, MR, and finally charisma would mean that in terms of duration, the charisma shouldn't extend it too much when it did play a role. (Extra Note: For enchanters it was around 10% extension because charisma had more of an effect on charms than druid/necromancer charms)

[Hiyodori]

Okay, two things that I want to talk about in this reply.

#1) Yay me, just got done with translating a stack of legal documents for work, happy for the moment because I can play Everquest. Tomorrow that happiness will go away because they will be sent back as legal documents always are with requests for changes and rewording.

#2) I tried to log into the server to play and it was down so I thought I would follow Autotune's advice (which was awesome by the way) and look through the patch notes around the time the guy from this post mentioned. (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37323)

That being said, he was off by one month but his comment made locating it much easier. It wasn't April of 2011 but March of 2011 so he was one month off. Here is the link to the patch notes. (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30536)

So having the link here, I was curious to what the wording would be in order to get a clearer picture whether or not Charisma played a role in necromancer and druid charming. Here is what was written in those patch notes if you don't feel like locating it from the whole notes above.

- Kanras-Src-Druid charm CHA equivalence identical to necromancers

However, another coder posted a comment later which could be interpreted two different ways. His comment was this...

- Means nothing for a necro. Druids aren't so dependent on charisma for charms

The 1st and more likely interpretation is that "Charisma means nothing for a necro". The 2nd possible interpretation is that "the patch means nothing for a necro".

So looking only at the comment from Kanras who actually did the coding for this, it seems as if the wording is intended to confuse people IF necro charm does not check charisma at all. Why not just skip all the hoops and just plainly state that "Druid charm no longer checks Charisma". I know these guys are busy with real life, but the way he worded the patch notes suggests that necromancer charms check charisma, but at a level of less imprortance than enchanters and bards.

Now as for the comment of the other coder, which in this case did not work on the charm section according to the patch notes but should be regarded as an authority because he is a programmer, seems to suggest that necromancer charm does not check charisma. (This is if you accept his statement as the 1st possible interpretation)

So, at this point I would really like to have a link some credible evidence such as a link to another forum post by someone credible or one of the p1999 coder's posting a reply saying DIRECTLY w/o any other possible translation that "I have looked at the code regarding necromancer and druid charming and I know for a fact that on P1999 the necromancer charm is affected by *blah blah blah* and the druid charm is affect by *blah blah blah* . That way, in case any other players are interested such as myself int he future, one can easily find this thread by doing a search and I have been tryin g my best to put links here so we have as much supporting evidence as possible)

Please, a coder that has either looked at the code in the past or willing to take a look at it to verify what is checked for necromancer and druid charming so we can put this topic to rest in the p1999 forums and players have a good reference to get the answer to this question. Lastly, please for the love of God be very specific and careful with your wording.

[Autotune]

Okay, two things that I want to talk about in this reply.

#1) Yay me, just got done with translating a stack of legal documents for work, happy for the moment because I can play Everquest. Tomorrow that happiness will go away because they will be sent back as legal documents always are with requests for changes and rewording.

#2) I tried to log into the server to play and it was down so I thought I would follow Autotune's advice (which was awesome by the way) and look through the patch notes around the time the guy from this post mentioned. (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37323)

That being said, he was off by one month but his comment made locating it much easier. It wasn't April of 2011 but March of 2011 so he was one month off. Here is the link to the patch notes. (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30536)

So having the link here, I was curious to what the wording would be in order to get a clearer picture whether or not Charisma played a role in necromancer and druid charming. Here is what was written in those patch notes if you don't feel like locating it from the whole notes above.

- Kanras-Src-Druid charm CHA equivalence identical to necromancers

However, another coder posted a comment later which could be interpreted two different ways. His comment was this...

- Means nothing for a necro. Druids aren't so dependent on charisma for charms

The 1st and more likely interpretation is that "Charisma means nothing for a necro". The 2nd possible interpretation is that "the patch means nothing for a necro".

So looking only at the comment from Kanras who actually did the coding for this, it seems as if the wording is intended to confuse people IF necro charm does not check charisma at all. Why not just skip all the hoops and just plainly state that "Druid charm no longer checks Charisma". I know these guys are busy with real life, but the way he worded the patch notes suggests that necromancer charms check charisma, but at a level of less imprortance than enchanters and bards.

Now as for the comment of the other coder, which in this case did not work on the charm section according to the patch notes but should be regarded as an authority because he is a programmer, seems to suggest that necromancer charm does not check charisma. (This is if you accept his statement as the 1st possible interpretation)

So, at this point I would really like to have a link some credible evidence such as a link to another forum post by someone credible or one of the p1999 coder's posting a reply saying DIRECTLY w/o any other possible translation that "I have looked at the code regarding necromancer and druid charming and I know for a fact that on P1999 the necromancer charm is affected by *blah blah blah* and the druid charm is affect by *blah blah blah* . That way, in case any other players are interested such as myself int he future, one can easily find this thread by doing a search and I have been tryin g my best to put links here so we have as much supporting evidence as possible)

Please, a coder that has either looked at the code in the past or willing to take a look at it to verify what is checked for necromancer and druid charming so we can put this topic to rest in the p1999 forums and players have a good reference to get the answer to this question. Lastly, please for the love of God be very specific and careful with your wording.

CHA means nothing for a necromancer in terms of Charming.

Druid charm CHA equivalence identical to necromancers.

CHA means nothing for a druid in terms of charming.

Both Necromancers and Druids aren't dependent on CHA for charming because CHA means nothing to their charms.

My necromancer had tons of -CHA (negative charisma) gear and I can tell you it has no effect on charms. Sometimes they'd break almost instantly, but the majority of them would last for a good bit depending on the mob's level and MR.

[Messianic]

This took me about 30 seconds.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19299&highlight=druid+charm