Raid Scene 12/20 - 01/02

[Tanthallas]

The leadership of FE, IB, BDA, Taken, and Divinity have agreed on a special arrangement for this two week period. Any other guild that would like to participate is more than welcome.

1. Any guild participating in this agreement will wait two hours to engage a raid mob if that guild killed that particular raid mob on its last spawn. This does not apply to any raid mob killed before 12/20. Ragefire is not included; nor does this apply to Veeshan's peak.

This means, for example, if guild A kills CT on 12/22 and CT spawns again on 12/30 at 1pm est, guild A will not be able to engage CT until 3pm est at the very earliest.

2. There will be no training whatsoever in Veeshan's peak. All guilds are free to enter, mobilize, etc. IF there is an accident and one raidforce happens to train another, it is expected that the matter is handled maturely such that the force which was trained is given support (res, drag, etc.) and given a legitimate (timely) first attempt at the mob.

This agreement symbolizes a step toward a less cut-throat and less extreme raiding environment on this server while at the same time attempting to maintain a competitive atmosphere. We all hope that this agreement, in some form or another, carries on into the future and that each of the guilds involved in the end-game raiding scene on this server are able to, between them, come to terms that make this server more enjoyable for everyone.

[Troubled]

Confirmed by BDA. Good luck all! We'd also like to point out that http://www.whokilledit.com is a great resource for finding out who should be sitting out and helping self regulate as per agreed stipulations(minus VP kills, Maestro, RF, & Master Yael.)


-
Troubledour - 60 bard - BDA Raid Leader

[Lazie]

+10000000000000

[SyanideGas]

Was a good plan, excited to see the results.
Everyone have a good 2 weeks of merbs!

[Emile]

Amazing. I can't believe I'm seeing this here. You guys are great. Reminds me of my classic server.

[Splorf22]

The A-Team plans to kill everything without regard to this arrangement. We recently applied for an economic stimulus grant for several hundred thousand dollars, which we are using to pay homeless people $.25 per hour to track for us.

On a more serious note: I would definitely like the high-end scene to be more cooperative and less competitive, but I don't think everything can be blamed on TMO. We need mechanics changes - some subset of:

Simultaneous Repops, spreading players out during boss mob fights
Tokens, allowing people to 'just enjoy classic Everquest'
Ban trains in VP
Reduce repop times on certain mobs (for example, all of hate/fear/sky repopping every 6 hours instead of 8/12/etc would be great)
Encourage people to delete alt accounts of their own volition, by giving deleters guises or illusion stuff or whatever

[Millburn]

Before all the cynics chime in I just want to say I love you guys. I hope this goes swimmingly and leads to better days. Gotta clear that new path for others to walk down y'all.

[BlackTriad]

The leadership of FE, IB, BDA, Taken, and Divinity have agreed on a special arrangement for this two week period. Any other guild that would like to participate is more than welcome.

1. Any guild participating in this agreement will wait two hours to engage a raid mob if that guild killed that particular raid mob on its last spawn. This does not apply to any raid mob killed before 12/20. Ragefire is not included; nor does this apply to Veeshan's peak.

This means, for example, if guild A kills CT on 12/22 and CT spawns again on 12/30 at 1pm est, guild A will not be able to engage CT until 3pm est at the very earliest.

2. There will be no training whatsoever in Veeshan's peak. All guilds are free to enter, mobilize, etc. IF there is an accident and one raidforce happens to train another, it is expected that the matter is handled maturely such that the force which was trained is given support (res, drag, etc.) and given a legitimate (timely) first attempt at the mob.

This agreement symbolizes a step toward a less cut-throat and less extreme raiding environment on this server while at the same time attempting to maintain a competitive atmosphere. We all hope that this agreement, in some form or another, carries on into the future and that each of the guilds involved in the end-game raiding scene on this server are able to, between them, come to terms that make this server more enjoyable for everyone.

Absolutely brilliant. I love it. Good sportsmanship combined with civility all while preserving the need to compete for targets. See what happens when people talk to each other.

[Troubled]

I said add the NO training policy to fear/hate as well. Try to agree that it is done lack back in 2010, by having to clear your way to the mob to prevent another guild being steamrolled by a pull gone wrong.

Essentially making CT/Draco and Inny/Maestro needing to be killed on or near their spawn/roaming points. Which i assume is similar to what you are referencing in regards to VP.

Another splendid idea would be for this first wave of Naggy/Vox or perhaps the second wave... make it a public raid for anyone wanting to join. I know BDA has a streak going on Vox, but perhaps they would be open to the idea of the open raid aspect due to there being some people 52 and below who are guildless that would also like to see raiding during this time.

Just some basic ideas that i believe would work toward a safer/better raid environment to avoid old behaviors resulting in no additional raid content in the future.

On live I used to see pick-up raids form for Vox in EC. I'd join one on my rogue. However, if it passes the 2 hour time-frame, I can't promise we wouldn't go after it ourselves.

[Byrjun]

Absolutely brilliant. I love it. Good sportsmanship combined with civility all while preserving the need to compete for targets. See what happens when people talk to each other.

You mean see what happens TMO doesn't have a say in the matter.

[Daldaen]

2 hours seems a bit weak. Why not 12? So that even if it spawns on an off hour people can try to grab the mob at a more normal hour.

PS I don't mean to be the cynic pissing in your cereal. I guess I just don't see how much it will change the outcome of a boss fight when guild A sits back for 2 hours. I feel as though there will be one or two guilds who get the same mob back to back due to 2 hours not being enough time.

[khanable]

I just want to hug everyone

Good luck to all. Let's clean this server up.

[Troubled]

2 hours seems a bit weak. Why not 12? So that even if it spawns on an off hour people can try to grab the mob at a more normal hour.

Would it matter?

[khanable]

2 hours seems a bit weak. Why not 12? So that even if it spawns on an off hour people can try to grab the mob at a more normal hour.

This would give Europa a nice shot, though.

[BlackTriad]

You mean see what happens TMO doesn't have a say in the matter.

Hmm. Perhaps you should read this again. Here I will quote it for you.



Any other guild that would like to participate is more than welcome.

We all hope that this agreement, in some form or another, carries on into the future and that each of the guilds involved in the end-game raiding scene on this server are able to, between them, come to terms that make this server more enjoyable for everyone.

[Tycko]

2 hours seems a bit weak. Why not 12? So that even if it spawns on an off hour people can try to grab the mob at a more normal hour.

PS I don't mean to be the cynic pissing in your cereal. I guess I just don't see how much it will change the outcome of a boss fight when guild A sits back for 2 hours. I feel as though there will be one or two guilds who get the same mob back to back due to 2 hours not being enough time.

Yes, what guilds have the capability to track and mobilize ?
IB
FE

Looks like these two guilds are going to have a nice rotation between themselves for the next two weeks. Merry Christmas.

[Pint]

sounds like a step in the right direction, good luck guys!

[BlackTriad]

Yes, what guilds have the capability to track and mobilize ?
IB
FE

Looks like these two guilds are going to have a nice rotation between themselves for the next two weeks. Merry Christmas.

You are under-estimating a few other guilds. Good. We like that. :)

[Spitty]

Awesome show, great job.

Really.

[mishurza]

What about letting guilds camp out for specific targets?

You must maintain a force of 12 people logged on and submit hourly logs to a raid forum post. This would give you 20 minutes to engage a mob unhindered after it spawned. Other guilds would be welcome to camp out behind you in the event that your guild fails. A second guild maintaining the required presence at the camp and demonstrating this with hourly posting of raid logs to a raid forum post, would be entitled to the 2nd attempt at the mob given the 1st guild was unsuccessful. They would have 15 minutes to engage mob after the 1st guild's wipe. More forces would be able to line up if they were present and willing to maintain a 12 man presence at a spawn.

Else revert to FTE.

Also I really like the 2 hour grace period thing. Good idea whoever came up with that.

[Skywarp]

Mob rotation and courtesy kills, the essential show of respect and fair play. Way to go guys.

[SyanideGas]

2 hours should be more than enough time to engage really. Im pretty sure the rest of the other guilds can muster the amount.

[Lazie]

2 hours should be more than enough time to engage really. Im pretty sure the rest of the other guilds can muster the amount.

Heck when Trak spawns 2 hours is enough time to CotH a guild down and kill it. It's very reasonable. IF guilds prepare for a mob they want and prioritize their targets they will get a kill with this system.

[Godefroi]

Mob rotation and courtesy kills, the essential show of respect and fair play. Way to go guys.

Yes...But the best part of this is the no trains in VP, it's the cherry on top.

[Tierael]

The leadership of FE, IB, BDA, Taken, and Divinity have agreed on a special arrangement for this two week period. Any other guild that would like to participate is more than welcome.

1. Any guild participating in this agreement will wait two hours to engage a raid mob if that guild killed that particular raid mob on its last spawn. This does not apply to any raid mob killed before 12/20. Ragefire is not included; nor does this apply to Veeshan's peak.

This means, for example, if guild A kills CT on 12/22 and CT spawns again on 12/30 at 1pm est, guild A will not be able to engage CT until 3pm est at the very earliest.

2. There will be no training whatsoever in Veeshan's peak. All guilds are free to enter, mobilize, etc. IF there is an accident and one raidforce happens to train another, it is expected that the matter is handled maturely such that the force which was trained is given support (res, drag, etc.) and given a legitimate (timely) first attempt at the mob.

This agreement symbolizes a step toward a less cut-throat and less extreme raiding environment on this server while at the same time attempting to maintain a competitive atmosphere. We all hope that this agreement, in some form or another, carries on into the future and that each of the guilds involved in the end-game raiding scene on this server are able to, between them, come to terms that make this server more enjoyable for everyone.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltiy5wtSru1r5qrimo1_250.gif

[Funkutron5000]

Good luck to everyone that attempts dragons!

[DrKvothe]

In conjunction with this new raiding philosophy, GMs should consider drastically reducing variance and respawn times (as others have mentioned). There'd be more than enough targets for everyone to get a shot.

A tiny bit of variance (~2-3 hours) keeps the exact repop time moving, without requiring poopsocking to claim your scheduled kill. That'd allow people in each raiding guild a chance to participate on each raid target over time, regardless of their own specific work schedule.

[DrKvothe]

^^ Obviously assuming this whole thing can be worked out beyond the 2 week period. Would certainly take GM intervention

[sanforce]

Bunch of carebears in here

[Lazie]

Bunch of carebears in here

/sarcasm on

Yeah working together to make a system that ALL players on the server agrees on is terrible and the worst thing that can happen to the server. Makes everyone care bears. I mean why share a great experience with everyone when you can monopolize it for yourself ?

/sarcasm off

[Culkasi]

I think this is a great idea, but would hope we could extract some of the courtesy to the Ragefire engagement where guilds repeatedly train each other to get FTE.

Here's to hoping it will work

[sanforce]

So if this current policy stands in the future, TMO and IB/FE will start splitting mobs roughly 50/50 when things settle out.

[Reguiy]

I like this. A good compromise between hardcore competition and a rotation.

I always thought a rotation wouldn't be realistic. There would be 10 guilds in the rotation and you would only see a certain mob once every 10 weeks. Not to mention, there's no competition involved, which kind of defeats the whole point of everquest classic.

As far as hardcore competition goes, the guild with the most people in guild/spinning at the select screen when a mob spawns will win. Whoever has the most people/most people at select will win.

That being said, I don't blame people who want to join TMO. This is 2013, not 1999. People don't have the drive to overthrow the overlords of the server. People have lives these days, and no one wants/can spend their lives trying to overthrow a superpower of the server just to get loot/see raid content. This creates an atmosphere where people will join the guild which has the numbers and will guarantee them loot. The only real incentive to join a guild that ISN'T the number one guild, is the competitive aspect and the idea of taking down the big boy.

If this system is kept in place it will guarantee at least 3 competitive/hardcore guilds that people will consider joining. Each week at least one guild will be out of the picture, and at least two other guilds will be vying for the target. This systemisn't perfect but it's definitely preferable to what the raid scene has typically been looking like.

[Ravager]

Yes...But the best part of this is the no trains in VP, it's the cherry on top.

+1 It'll be nice to see the zone without some jerk who has nothing better to do than shit on someone else, there shitting on you.

[Prismaticshop]

The leadership of FE, IB, BDA, Taken, and Divinity have agreed on a special arrangement for this two week period. Any other guild that would like to participate is more than welcome.

1. Any guild participating in this agreement will wait two hours to engage a raid mob if that guild killed that particular raid mob on its last spawn. This does not apply to any raid mob killed before 12/20. Ragefire is not included; nor does this apply to Veeshan's peak.

This means, for example, if guild A kills CT on 12/22 and CT spawns again on 12/30 at 1pm est, guild A will not be able to engage CT until 3pm est at the very earliest.

2. There will be no training whatsoever in Veeshan's peak. All guilds are free to enter, mobilize, etc. IF there is an accident and one raidforce happens to train another, it is expected that the matter is handled maturely such that the force which was trained is given support (res, drag, etc.) and given a legitimate (timely) first attempt at the mob.

This agreement symbolizes a step toward a less cut-throat and less extreme raiding environment on this server while at the same time attempting to maintain a competitive atmosphere. We all hope that this agreement, in some form or another, carries on into the future and that each of the guilds involved in the end-game raiding scene on this server are able to, between them, come to terms that make this server more enjoyable for everyone.

What can I say, this is excellent!

http://i.imgur.com/nLiq2rL.gif

[Anichek]

Yes, what guilds have the capability to track and mobilize ?
IB
FE

Looks like these two guilds are going to have a nice rotation between themselves for the next two weeks. Merry Christmas.

FE and IB are co-raiding, and per the summit last night they confirmed to consider them one raiding unit as they move together from target to target.

[DrKvothe]

The leadership of FE, IB, BDA, Taken, and Divinity have agreed on a special arrangement for this two week period. Any other guild that would like to participate is more than welcome.

1. Any guild participating in this agreement will wait two hours to engage a raid mob if that guild killed that particular raid mob on its last spawn. This does not apply to any raid mob killed before 12/20. Ragefire is not included; nor does this apply to Veeshan's peak.

This means, for example, if guild A kills CT on 12/22 and CT spawns again on 12/30 at 1pm est, guild A will not be able to engage CT until 3pm est at the very earliest.

2. There will be no training whatsoever in Veeshan's peak. All guilds are free to enter, mobilize, etc. IF there is an accident and one raidforce happens to train another, it is expected that the matter is handled maturely such that the force which was trained is given support (res, drag, etc.) and given a legitimate (timely) first attempt at the mob.

This agreement symbolizes a step toward a less cut-throat and less extreme raiding environment on this server while at the same time attempting to maintain a competitive atmosphere. We all hope that this agreement, in some form or another, carries on into the future and that each of the guilds involved in the end-game raiding scene on this server are able to, between them, come to terms that make this server more enjoyable for everyone.

Can we discuss how this might work if this can be kept up beyond the 2 week TMO-free period. We'd have 6-8 guilds (those mentioned in OP + TMO, Bob, Europa, etc.) competing for raid targets that can be bat-phoned/poopsocked by 2 guilds (alternating to eliminate the 2 hour delay) with the same success that TMO has had alone.

It just seems that if we were to establish these rules as stated until or through velious, VP would be fairly accessible but all other raid targets would just bounce back and forth between TMO and TMOaltguild.

This seems like the perfect time to establish new, long-term server raiding policy that will protect the interests of the 99% and keep the GMs from removing velious raiding content.

[Kegir]

Can we discuss how this might work if this can be kept up beyond the 2 week TMO-free period. We'd have 6-8 guilds (those mentioned in OP + TMO, Bob, Europa, etc.) competing for raid targets that can be bat-phoned/poopsocked by 2 guilds (alternating to eliminate the 2 hour delay) with the same success that TMO has had alone.

It just seems that if we were to establish these rules as stated until or through velious, VP would be fairly accessible but all other raid targets would just bounce back and forth between TMO and TMOaltguild.

This seems like the perfect time to establish new, long-term server raiding policy that will protect the interests of the 99% and keep the GMs from removing velious raiding content.

I think GMs would be pretty disappointed to see 7 of 8 guilds agree to do this and 1 guild tries to find a loophole to gear alt number X.

[sanforce]

I think GMs would be pretty disappointed to see 7 of 8 guilds agree to do this and 1 guild tries to find a loophole to gear alt number X.

These rules are a 2 week patch at best. I'm not saying something else won't be worked out, but as it stands the raid mobs will be dominated by 2 guilds over time - like it was before.

[Tecmos Deception]

The leadership of FE, IB, BDA, Taken, and Divinity have agreed on a special arrangement for this two week period. Any other guild that would like to participate is more than welcome.

1. Any guild participating in this agreement will wait two hours to engage a raid mob if that guild killed that particular raid mob on its last spawn. This does not apply to any raid mob killed before 12/20. Ragefire is not included; nor does this apply to Veeshan's peak.

This means, for example, if guild A kills CT on 12/22 and CT spawns again on 12/30 at 1pm est, guild A will not be able to engage CT until 3pm est at the very earliest.

2. There will be no training whatsoever in Veeshan's peak. All guilds are free to enter, mobilize, etc. IF there is an accident and one raidforce happens to train another, it is expected that the matter is handled maturely such that the force which was trained is given support (res, drag, etc.) and given a legitimate (timely) first attempt at the mob.

This agreement symbolizes a step toward a less cut-throat and less extreme raiding environment on this server while at the same time attempting to maintain a competitive atmosphere. We all hope that this agreement, in some form or another, carries on into the future and that each of the guilds involved in the end-game raiding scene on this server are able to, between them, come to terms that make this server more enjoyable for everyone.

WTB chanter dot clicky staff!

[Aaron]

1. Any guild participating in this agreement will wait two hours to engage a raid mob if that guild killed that particular raid mob on its last spawn. This does not apply to any raid mob killed before 12/20. Ragefire is not included; nor does this apply to Veeshan's peak.


How is this being timed?

Let's say A-Team kills Trak. They then get to Trak at the next spawn.

Then Europa shows up. As Europa is mobilizing to get people there, the A-Team engages, because they say they waited two hours. How are they held accountable?

Honor system? I promise that won't work.


Note -- I used A-Team as an example only because they likely wouldn't do that sort of thing and I needed a name.

[Erati]

guilds still have to track n get timers.....

if someone leaves CT up for 2 hrs n no one else notices it doesnt really matter if timing is not exact.... no one else was after him!

[Aaron]

Wasn't variance added because the guilds couldn't work together? Why not remove variance, and tell everyone to work together.

Suspend/ban those that refuse.

Poopsocking trackers is still lame, no matter how you slice it.

[contemptor]

guilds still have to track n get timers.....

if someone leaves CT up for 2 hrs n no one else notices it doesnt really matter if timing is not exact.... no one else was after him!
Pretty much, this would be my thought. Tracking is still annoying, but it's not quite as bad when you know you have a fair shot at an encounter.

[mgellan]

How is this being timed?

Let's say A-Team kills Trak. They then get to Trak at the next spawn.

Then Europa shows up. As Europa is mobilizing to get people there, the A-Team engages, because they say they waited two hours. How are they held accountable?

Honor system? I promise that won't work.

Note -- I used A-Team as an example only because they likely wouldn't do that sort of thing and I needed a name.

Personally I would hope A-Team would stay the hell out of Seb once it's clear Europa is massing for an attempt, or contact the RL of Europa and offer assistance / negotiate some drops whatever. Even to the extent that if Europa wiped on an attempt they would be left alone to re-attempt. Like fuck, why be like dogs fighting over a bone??

I would hope that after bitching and whining for years about the raiding scene, all Guilds big or small should show some respect and integrity and not only create a new competitive environment where EVERYONE is competing for kills, but a raid environment where everyone gets to experience the content instead of cockblocking everyone else and gearing up alt_12342.

Regards,
Mg

[DrKvothe]

How is this being timed?

Let's say A-Team kills Trak. They then get to Trak at the next spawn.

Then Europa shows up. As Europa is mobilizing to get people there, the A-Team engages, because they say they waited two hours. How are they held accountable?

Honor system? I promise that won't work.


Note -- I used A-Team as an example only because they likely wouldn't do that sort of thing and I needed a name.

Evidence trak was killed before two hours (ss of him up and back down) would only take one person to produce. If guilds want to risk a raiding suspension they're welcome to engage earlier and hope they're not caught.

[Briac]

Personally I would hope A-Team would stay the hell out of Seb once it's clear Europa is massing for an attempt, or contact the RL of Europa and offer assistance / negotiate some drops whatever. Even to the extent that if Europa wiped on an attempt they would be left alone to re-attempt. Like fuck, why be like dogs fighting over a bone??

I would hope that after bitching and whining for years about the raiding scene, all Guilds big or small should show some respect and integrity and not only create a new competitive environment where EVERYONE is competing for kills, but a raid environment where everyone gets to experience the content instead of cockblocking everyone else and gearing up alt_12342.

Regards,
Mg

+1

[Daldaen]

Or... /random seed each week.

Seed1 picks their first mob
Seed2 picks their first mob
Etc.

Next week Last Seed gets First pick and re-random.

Only the guild with that mob gets to kill it.

FE 1 - Trakanon
Divinity 2 - Venril
BDA 3 - Gorenaire
Taken 4 - Severilious
IB 5 - Talendor

Perhaps the lowest seeds get 2 targets (likely the lesser desirability ones).

IB 6 - Faydedar
Taken 7 - Vox
BDA 8 - Nagafen

Or if you want to be really bold post for open raids on the last 3 mobs each week at some normal time.

Open Faydedar 8PM EST Tuesdsy
Open Vox 6PM EST Saturday
Open Nagafen 7PM PST Monday

VP I don't know what guilds have enough keyed toons to kill stuff there, but just split that up the same way among keyed guilds. Or leave it contested to satisfy the "err mer gerd competition is what makes my life worthwhile" crowd.

[webrunner5]

How does ANYONE really know when the 2 hours are up?? :p

[DrKvothe]

GMs could have automatic server-wide announcements when (or shortly before) a raid target spawns. Batphoning still prevails, but without the mandatory exhaustive tracking.

[finalgrunt]

GMs could have automatic server-wide announcements when (or shortly before) a raid target spawns. Batphoning still prevails, but without the mandatory exhaustive tracking.

That would be steering the raid scene even more away from classic experience though, wouldn't it?

Even though I agree the whole variance + tracking package is putting many people off.

[Troubled]

Yea I think if you want the 2 hour opportunity you should be tracking for it. This isn't a giveaway. It's to get more people involved in the raiding aspect of p99 and hopefully remove some of the top-heaviness from the equation from every single target, every single time.

Even though I agree the whole variance + tracking package is putting many people off.

Have always hated variance. Worst idea ever.

[Pheer]

GMs could have automatic server-wide announcements when (or shortly before) a raid target spawns. Batphoning still prevails, but without the mandatory exhaustive tracking.

How about instead of a flat out announcement that says "Hey guys! CT is up!" you could have some kind of serverwide message signaling that a raid mob is due anytime in the next X amount of hours? The lack of specificity on which mob it is and when it is up ensures that guilds are still required to track and actively seek out targets, but it also lessens the need for hardcore poopsocking/batphoning to have a chance at a target. Im sure guilds like Divinity/Taken/BDA will be much more motivated to track and mobilize for targets if they can without a doubt tell their members "Hey if you're able to be online during this timespan theres a chance we can get a raid mob kill"

Also the message could be something kind of ominous and foreboding just so newer players will be like "What the fuck was that?"

How hype would you be to start looking for a mob if you're just grinding or farming an item then all the sudden serverwide you see some shit like "A shiver runs down your spine as the air around you becomes colder." and then every raid guild starts scouting and mobilizing/positioning for the mobs theyre most interested in?

Of course if only one mob was in window that would pretty much guarantee which mob it was, maybe you could have it so messages only trigger if more than one mob is in window?

[Aaron]

Just remove variance. Forget all these crazy rules.

Jeez.

[Splorf22]

VARIANCE IS THE PROBLEM

[radditsu]

VARIANCE IS A PROBLEM


Fixed that with a thought that a +-4 hour variance happened an awful lot on EQ. It let european guilds snag mobs from time to time.

+-4 hour + simulated patch repops every 2-3 weeks is a way to go, in my very humble opinion. With the thought to gear distribution in your final expansion coming up. If you simultaneous repop to fast, your raiders gear up too fast and your server is at its end too fast. However patch day raiding was a HUGE part to raiding in EQ.

[Orruar]

This is a fantastic development. Good to see the remaining guilds manned up and did the right thing. Maybe not a perfect system, but much better than 2 weeks of poopsocking/training/flaming.

[Pheer]

No variance results in every guild capable of killing that target and willing to log in at its respawn time having large amounts of players waiting for the repop. This same shit happened 4 years ago and it will happen again. One guild will decide they really want a certain mob and poop 1 hour ahead of time. Then another guild will say hey we have to do it to compete! And then poop 2 hours ahead of time. Before you know it you've got raid forces pooping days ahead of time just like back in the DA/IB days and the less hardcore guilds still wouldnt be getting any more raid mobs cause theyre understandably unwilling to stand at a raid mob spawn point for that long.

[Nogdar]

Hello,

While we'll be mostly AFK raid-wise during the Christmas and New Year season, Europa as a guild would love to see some such form of agreement, which with any hope could last beyond these 2 weeks, for some level of end-game sharing.

Count us in :)

[Handull]

The 2 hour rule will do two things. During this 2 week period, it will spread out what guilds get mobs, so that one guild does not get 95% of the mobs. If TMO comes back and respects the 2 hour rule, it will put TMO and FE/IB at much less direct competition with one another. There will still be mobs killed by other guilds that cause the two top guilds to be vying for FTE. For the majority of the mobs, FE/IB and TMO will not be in direct competition, so we can hopefully get along more. At the same time, this allows for a third guild to try and step up more, knowing that they aren't racing two other guilds, but only one.

[Splorf22]

No variance results in every guild capable of killing that target and willing to log in at its respawn time having large amounts of players waiting for the repop. This same shit happened 4 years ago and it will happen again. One guild will decide they really want a certain mob and poop 1 hour ahead of time. Then another guild will say hey we have to do it to compete! And then poop 2 hours ahead of time. Before you know it you've got raid forces pooping days ahead of time just like back in the DA/IB days and the less hardcore guilds still wouldnt be getting any more raid mobs cause theyre understandably unwilling to stand at a raid mob spawn point for that long.

My point is that it is not really possible to engage in any sort of a rotation or calendar or whatnot with variance. People still have to do the retarded-ass tracking if they want to get in on this.

I agree that purely removing variance would suck at first. It might lead to a rotation as people realize that an FTE fest is retarded, but then it might not. I want to see a) weekly repops and b) a few tokens per guild. This would completely change the dynamics of the raid scene.

[Troubled]

My point is that it is not really possible to engage in any sort of a rotation or calendar or whatnot with variance. People still have to do the retarded-ass tracking if they want to get in on this.

I agree that purely removing variance would suck at first. It might lead to a rotation as people realize that an FTE fest is retarded, but then it might not. I want to see a) weekly repops and b) a few tokens per guild. This would completely change the dynamics of the raid scene.

If they fully removed variance a gm enforced rotation would be in order and I'd say there'd be more rather than less people who would be happy about it.

[justin2090]

More raid pops or tokens isn't really that great. I agree something has to change but I don't think this is the answer. Anything that could mess with the economy in a game where there are No Bind On Equip Items is bad. More raid targets = More loot on the server.

I believe the schedule set in place for the next 2 weeks is really the only option. Lets see how this pans out.

[dav]

Confirmed by BDA. Good luck all! We'd also like to point out that http://www.whokilledit.com is a great resource for finding out who should be sitting out and helping self regulate as per agreed stipulations(minus VP kills, Maestro, RF, & Master Yael.)


-
Troubledour - 60 bard - BDA Raid Leader

A couple of the big updaters of this site were in TMO. While we have members from nearly every other guild, if I could get a couple of dedicated volunteers who are active and will assist in keeping this updated, please send me a PM! No web development expertise required/needed! :)

[Yaolin]

1. Variance is halved for all mobs in order to not waste peoples time and effort, and it allows for a greater likely hood that mobs will be spawning in closer time proximity to each other (Have to choose one of the other). Help GMs!!
Batphoning/Zerg guilds still benefit from variance and smaller/primetime guilds have a better chance of actually seeing a mob spawn if they hunt in a particular zone during the mobs window (100% better chance of seeing mob if variance is halved. Smallest window would be by Dracoliche of 12 hours and Trakanon would have an 18 hour window.)
2. Guilds are only allowed to kill every fourth spawn of each raid mob, once a mob has been killed 4x the "rotation" resets, and at the end of every month the "rotation" resets no matter where it is in the cycle. (About 2.5 Trak/Maestro/Dracoliche per month and 1 Gore/CT/Inny/Sev/Tal/VS/Fay per month) There are easily 4 guilds/raid forces on this server that can kill these mobs within a few hours of them spawning. (Help everyone!!)
With this strategy you would see the raid scene blown wide open, there would still be FTE fights/mobilization(Batphone/Zerg guilds still win out) wars, most likely the same 3 guilds would get 75% of the spawns, but the other 25% would be fucking awesome and a lot of fun for the rest of the server.
3. This would require a window on the P99 website stating which guilds have killed which mobs during a current month so that it is known by all that they are not in the running. Help GMs!!

[Orruar]

I believe the staff here wants the players to work out their own system, whether that be a rotation or pseudo-rotation, with no staff enforcement necessary. And rightfully so. It can be done, but it requires the population polices themselves. Something that is quite easy so long as the good people of each guild hold the shitbags accountable.

[Ahldagor]

I believe the staff here wants the players to work out their own system, whether that be a rotation or pseudo-rotation, with no staff enforcement necessary. And rightfully so. It can be done, but it requires the population polices themselves. Something that is quite easy so long as the good people of each guild hold the shitbags accountable.

that's exactly what they're trying to do.

rogean in my head while reading the front page

http://www.wallpapername.com/download/view?resolution=800x400&file=MTkyMHgxMDgwLzIwMTIxMDI2L3B1bHAgZmljdGlvbiBzY W11ZWwgbCBqYWNrc29uIHNvZGEgMTkyMHgxMDgwIHdhbGxwYXB lcl93d3cud2FsbHBhcGVybmFtZS5jb21fMjkuanBn&name=cHVscF9maWN0aW9uX3NhbXVlbF9sX2phY2tzb25fc29kY V8xOTIweDEwODBfd2FsbHBhcGVy

[Anichek]

I believe the staff here wants the players to work out their own system, whether that be a rotation or pseudo-rotation, with no staff enforcement necessary. And rightfully so. It can be done, but it requires the population polices themselves. Something that is quite easy so long as the good people of each guild hold the shitbags accountable.

This, exactly. Which is what the initial post was. The leadership of the guilds who have agreed to the OP are all trying to establish a baseline - test it for the next couple of weeks - and see how it works.

If 7-8-9 guilds are all working together for fun, competitive atmosphere that:

a) Doesn't involve a SECURED rotation, but
b) DOES introduce a guaranteed opportunity for other guilds, and
c) LIMITS the instances for back to back to back to back kills by providing an "exclusion timer"

I really feel (after the conversations we had last night) that this could be not only a regime change, but a fundamental shift in the wait that P99 raiding is policed and conducted....we're all here to enjoy the content, I'm excited to see this agreement in action.

To a GREAT couple of weeks, and with any hope, a vast improvement long term on the raid/end-game scene!

[Splorf22]

I believe the staff here wants the players to work out their own system, whether that be a rotation or pseudo-rotation, with no staff enforcement necessary. And rightfully so. It can be done, but it requires the population polices themselves. Something that is quite easy so long as the good people of each guild hold the shitbags accountable.

Suppose that TMO comes back and agrees to this. Cool, we still have to track everything and compete against one of FE/IB and TMO. In other words 10% of the effort will go to killing the mobs, 90% will go to tracking/batphoning/zerging etc instead of 5%/95%.

The real problems here are variance and overcrowding. The real solutions are repops and tokens. Everyone can compete and keep score on whokilledit, and the casuals can kill a few mobs each week with tokens. Everyone wins.

I know Rogean wants everyone to just play nice, but he has to create rules where that's possible.

[Pint]

Suppose that TMO comes back and agrees to this. Cool, we still have to track everything and compete against one of FE/IB and TMO. In other words 10% of the effort will go to killing the mobs, 90% will go to tracking/batphoning/zerging etc instead of 5%/95%.

The real problems here are variance and overcrowding. The real solutions are repops and tokens. Everyone can compete and keep score on whokilledit, and the casuals can kill a few mobs each week with tokens. Everyone wins.

I know Rogean wants everyone to just play nice, but he has to create rules where that's possible.

I'm not really a classic nazi but all this talk of tokens and forced mob rotations doesn't sound anything like the eq we all came here to play. The current proposal is pretty simple and should at least allow a third or fourth guild to enter the raiding equation which after 2 years is a vast improvement. People need to slow their roll and see how things pan out, the real issues are going to arise when one guild mistreats another during these two weeks and how the man children officers handle these situations.

[Orruar]

Suppose that TMO comes back and agrees to this. Cool, we still have to track everything and compete against one of FE/IB and TMO. In other words 10% of the effort will go to killing the mobs, 90% will go to tracking/batphoning/zerging etc instead of 5%/95%.

The real problems here are variance and overcrowding. The real solutions are repops and tokens. Everyone can compete and keep score on whokilledit, and the casuals can kill a few mobs each week with tokens. Everyone wins.

I know Rogean wants everyone to just play nice, but he has to create rules where that's possible.

With TMO back, you might have to renegotiate the agreement to skip out on 2 spawns after killing one for non VP or something like that. I'm sure there are ways to work this out without going back to the days of needing alts camped at every boss spawn. Maintaining some semblance of classicness is best. Raid tokens aren't very classic at all. Server repops with full boss repop is very classic.

And I suspect that after a month or two of the current agreement, the raid environment would improve greatly. The shitbags who only live to deprive others of loot would go somewhere else, as they would no longer be getting their daily fix of opponent tears. This would lead to a more friendly population, which would lead to better and more friendly competition, which leads to an even more friendly competition. Of course, maybe I'm just too much of an optimist. Maybe we'll always be stuck with people who only get joy from the suffering of others. But maybe that is true, and this episode has taught the decent people who surround and support these sociopathic bottomdwellers that they shouldn't align themselves with such people.

[Elmarnieh]

Yeah we should have a lot more full server respawns because classic EQ was not this stable.

[Lanuven]

The leadership of FE, IB, BDA, Taken, and Divinity have agreed on a special arrangement for this two week period. Any other guild that would like to participate is more than welcome.

1. Any guild participating in this agreement will wait two hours to engage a raid mob if that guild killed that particular raid mob on its last spawn. This does not apply to any raid mob killed before 12/20. Ragefire is not included; nor does this apply to Veeshan's peak.

This means, for example, if guild A kills CT on 12/22 and CT spawns again on 12/30 at 1pm est, guild A will not be able to engage CT until 3pm est at the very earliest.

2. There will be no training whatsoever in Veeshan's peak. All guilds are free to enter, mobilize, etc. IF there is an accident and one raidforce happens to train another, it is expected that the matter is handled maturely such that the force which was trained is given support (res, drag, etc.) and given a legitimate (timely) first attempt at the mob.

This agreement symbolizes a step toward a less cut-throat and less extreme raiding environment on this server while at the same time attempting to maintain a competitive atmosphere. We all hope that this agreement, in some form or another, carries on into the future and that each of the guilds involved in the end-game raiding scene on this server are able to, between them, come to terms that make this server more enjoyable for everyone.

Does this apply for the current Noble Dojorn shit fest happening in sky ?

[Aeaolena]

To a GREAT couple of weeks, and with any hope, a vast improvement long term on the raid/end-game scene!
http://www.beersinparadise.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Cheers-300x225.jpg

[Tanthallas]

Does this apply for the current Noble Dojorn shit fest happening in sky ?

It applies to Noble Dojorn.

[Yaolin]

The every other spawn rule = TMO and FE when TMO returns. Not really sure how this helps anyone other than FE if TMO goes along with it.

[Splorf22]

The every other spawn rule = TMO and FE when TMO returns. Not really sure how this helps anyone other than FE if TMO goes along with it.

Basically this is my opinion as well. I just think variance+way too many players=fierce 'competition'. But hey, I'm willing to wait and see. Hopefully Orruar will be right and the culture will improve a bit.

[happyhappy]

The every other spawn rule = TMO and FE when TMO returns. Not really sure how this helps anyone other than FE if TMO goes along with it.

Let's see how this works first, then adapt as more guilds get added?

Nothing is ever perfect right from the get go, trial and error my friend and after 2-3 years of error, I'm down for some trial period.

[Orruar]

Let's see how this works first, then adapt as more guilds get added?

Nothing is ever perfect right from the get go, trial and error my friend and after 2-3 years of error, I'm down for some trial period.

rofl

Yeah, I really hope the guild leaders keep the lines of communication open and are willing to meet regularly to revise the arrangement as needed to improve the raiding scene.

[Lammy]

You guys are really fooling yourself if you don't think FE/IB is going to do everything in their power to secure as many pixels as they can long term.

[happyhappy]

You guys are really fooling yourself if you don't think FE/IB is going to do everything in their power to secure as many pixels as they can long term.

As opposed to "all of the pixel"?

Still sounds like an improvement.

[Orruar]

You guys are really fooling yourself if you don't think FE/IB is going to do everything in their power to secure as many pixels as they can long term.

Exactly the kind of reaction we'd expect from the mind of a TMO minion. How about we try and see what happens? I guess your alternative plan is to just continue having TMO monopolize content with dozens of alts + VP trains? As if that's better than pretty much any other scenario? Do they brainwash you to be this way, or is that just natural for you?

[Ungriim]

1) Ib/FE will be doing this on joint raids, so that we don't take up spots/double up on kills.

2) I would propose that each mob has a stickied Kill timer thread in the "Raids Section" of the p99 forum. If you kill the mob, you post its time of death in the appropriate section.

3) The variance was implemented to prevent people from camping out / socking targets. This has resulted in neckbeards socking targets for their entire window. If you call this server "classic" because it promotes competition, you obviously haven't been raiding here. This raid scene is pathetic and has been reduced to whoever has the most button mashers. Lots of servers on live had rotations.

[Elmarnieh]

Technically you're collecting pointers. The pixels are just on the client end.

[Orruar]

Technically you're collecting pointers. The pixels are just on the client end.

Holy shit, you're going to make everyone rethink their entire lives now.

Except, aren't you really just collecting database entries?

Rogean, we need to know what kind of database is in use so we know exactly what we're receiving for our time. What's the page size, etc.? Any clustered indexes on this table?

[sanforce]

I'm hearing some news... hold. Yes yes, apparently TmoSpy has been nuked. How many characters does he have embedded in the beast?

[cearobinson]

If you call this server "classic" because it promotes competition, you obviously haven't been raiding here. This raid scene is pathetic and has been reduced to whoever has the most button mashers. Lots of servers on live had rotations.

This statement. There's no reason people can't work together and share. My server had one of the best, and one of the most hardcore, raiding guilds out there, Afterlife. They were at the top/near the top of progression for as long as I can remember yet other guilds, smaller guilds and even casual guilds had plenty of chances to kill other things.

Now, when it came to progression targets, that was a little tough. Afterlife was on that shit. But they also welcomed challenge, if someone beat them to it, they would bow out. Not freak out like a bunch of children who just had a piece of their candy stolen from their giant bucket. They also didn't hoard shit they didn't need just to sell everything at monopolized high prices.

The winds of change are here and I'm thankful.

[sanforce]

I agree, there are ways that the raid content can be shared. Like every 5th spawn goes to the signup list. This 50/50 split setup solves nothing tho.

[Tuljin]

dozens of trackers parked in every single zone with guild officer access to account information - not classic

massive SMS messages sent through a computer program - not classic

variance - not classic

ventrilo to bark orders at the legions of neckbeards after they've been batphoned with mass SMS who sit in line and wait their turn for months to get a single piece of gear while they are feeding into the pyramid scheme of providing top pixels only to the alts of guild leadership - not classic

other guild leaders/gms sitting around letting all this bullshit spin out of control for 2 years on the same content instead of somehow, over time, multiple parties coming up with ways to break the neckbeard, basement dwelling, log in at any point of the day on a batphone raid scene hegemony- not classic

[Raavak]

You guys are really fooling yourself if you don't think FE/IB is going to do everything in their power to secure as many pixels as they can long term.Exactly the kind of reaction we'd expect from the mind of a TMO minion.Someone is forgetting what the server was like when IB was the top dog. Hint: the situation was the same, the characters and guildtags were just different.

[ElanoraBryght]

/bow

Well done!

[Pheer]

Someone is forgetting what the server was like when IB was the top dog. Hint: the situation was the same, the characters and guildtags were just different.

Except IB wasnt making shit talk and propaganda threads on the forums twice a day and made a point of engaging the trolls as little as possible.

[Anichek]

Someone is forgetting what the server was like when IB was the top dog. Hint: the situation was the same, the characters and guildtags were just different.

Yet it was FE/IB and BDA that immediately sought each other out yesterday evening to discuss something civil, and then spread back out to contact other guilds to see if they were interested in the idea and in trying to be civil and work together to fix the broken system once and for all.

I've been around the last two years and been in the "fight". Many of us have, and that's what I saw in the FE/IB and BDA "summit" last night. I think what TMO needs to recognize is that the rest of the server is done playing by the rules TMO has set to define "competition", and even more over we're done with the melodrama and insatiable desire to close out other people from game content and to ruin any experiences that people are trying to have.

[Orruar]

Someone is forgetting what the server was like when IB was the top dog. Hint: the situation was the same, the characters and guildtags were just different.

I'm sure they were just the same. Is it the exact same set of people that are in IB now? Is it possible the current leadership will pursue a different course? I mean, Rogean has been pretty explicit about not being cool with the bullshit raiding scene on this server. Even if the exact same people are in charge of IB and they have the exact same mindset as before, don't you think Rogean's recent pronouncement might change their lootwhore calculation a bit? Could it not be that they realize it's to their benefit to form a friendly agreement with other guilds?

[Sodapop]

Someone is forgetting what the server was like when IB was the top dog. Hint: the situation was the same, the characters and guildtags were just different.

nah it wasn't.

we cleared kunark before you. we beat all the shit and everyone left. IB today is not IB/TR when kunark was released or classic.

we didn't sit around for 2 years hogging VP from everyone else. We beat that shit and moved on. Seeing all the TMO alts lot on last night with best in slot kinda made me sick. IB never had that, neither did TR.

in b4 we beat vp b4 u. nah u didn't Rogean made us give you those first kills, remember? You probably wern't there.

[YendorLootmonkey]

The next step to improving the raid scene is to nuke the RNF forums. No more forumquesting, disrespect, or lack of civility. RNF created the Alartis and Eccezans. Turned this server into a bunch of chest-pounding and e-peen measuring. Turned grown adults into anonymous children. Made people care way too much about stupid stuff.

[radditsu]

The next step to improving the raid scene is to nuke the RNF forums. No more forumquesting, disrespect, or lack of civility. RNF created the Alartis and Eccezans. Turned this server into a bunch of chest-pounding and e-peen measuring. Turned grown adults into anonymous children. Made people care way too much about stupid stuff.

:(


I thought you loved me

[Thulack]

The next step to improving the raid scene is to nuke the RNF forums. No more forumquesting, disrespect, or lack of civility. RNF created the Alartis and Eccezans. Turned this server into a bunch of chest-pounding and e-peen measuring. Turned grown adults into anonymous children. Made people care way too much about stupid stuff.

This. Brell had a Rants and Raves section so atleast some good was in the forum to go along with the ranting. RnF is just a total joke and honestly TMO probably wouldnt have half the haters it does if it wasnt for Ecc and Alarti in RnF's.

[Origin]

nah it wasn't.

we cleared kunark before you. we beat all the shit and everyone left. IB today is not IB/TR when kunark was released or classic.

we didn't sit around for 2 years hogging VP from everyone else. We beat that shit and moved on. Seeing all the TMO alts lot on last night with best in slot kinda made me sick. IB never had that, neither did TR.

in b4 we beat vp b4 u. nah u didn't Rogean made us give you those first kills, remember? You probably wern't there.

Too much truth in one post.

Stop it.

[Splorf22]

Putting Yendor's quote in my sig. Agree 100% that RNF is a cesspool that needs to be cleaned up and has only a detrimental effect on the community.

[eqravenprince]

we didn't sit around for 2 years hogging VP from everyone else. We beat that shit and moved on...

Word

[dav]

nah it wasn't.

we cleared kunark before you. we beat all the shit and everyone left. IB today is not IB/TR when kunark was released or classic.

we didn't sit around for 2 years hogging VP from everyone else. We beat that shit and moved on. Seeing all the TMO alts lot on last night with best in slot kinda made me sick. IB never had that, neither did TR.

in b4 we beat vp b4 u. nah u didn't Rogean made us give you those first kills, remember? You probably wern't there.

Sodatroll with the realtalk. Hope you're back for Velious, faggot. <3

[Striiker]

I view this as a big step forward. It gives others more of a chance to hit some of the big targets. It's not a give away either. Guilds that want these kills do still have to put in some effort to track and get their members to the target to get a kill. The meeting with the guild leaders went very well and we were all in agreement that this was a fair start at resolving the issues around trying to get a shot at the big targets. We even agreed to behave in a civil and mature manner towards each other (i.e. no training each other at the zone-in room in Plane of Hate) and to let guilds take their shots at the target without jumping past them. If there are problems (I'm sure some will happen), we will work them out as we all agreed to do during the meeting.

There were attempts to start discussions in the past about such things in the forums but those threads always fell apart with smart ass comments, refusal to do try, etc. Once we all got on Vent. there was no bickering or mistrust and we got it done.

[Yinikren]

Proud of you Fear.

[JerseyFresh609]

Love this, cheers to all involved!

[YendorLootmonkey]

Putting Yendor's quote in my sig. Agree 100% that RNF is a cesspool that needs to be cleaned up and has only a detrimental effect on the community.

100pp royalty payment to me for every post, IMO

[BillyCranston]

Permanent bans need to be handed out, if the players ever return and that can be confirmed, they need to be permanently banned again.

90% of raiders on this server would rather have this than the asshat 10% that thought it'd be more fun to call people at 4:30 AM to go kill Vox on their capped level 52 alts. Sociopaths don't deserve to have access to such a nice server and community (sans themselves).

[kaev]

The next step to improving the raid scene is to nuke the RNF forums. No more forumquesting, disrespect, or lack of civility. RNF created the Alartis and Eccezans. Turned this server into a bunch of chest-pounding and e-peen measuring. Turned grown adults into anonymous children. Made people care way too much about stupid stuff.

Agree. Blow off steam forum can be good, but here it's just become a toxic cesspit that fuels the neverending shitstorm that's endlessly fouling relations between the raid guilds.

[Brut]

Thought RnF was fun and fine until about time DA surfaced.

[sedrie.bellamie]

nah it wasn't.

we cleared kunark before you. we beat all the shit and everyone left. IB today is not IB/TR when kunark was released or classic.

we didn't sit around for 2 years hogging VP from everyone else. We beat that shit and moved on. Seeing all the TMO alts lot on last night with best in slot kinda made me sick. IB never had that, neither did TR.

in b4 we beat vp b4 u. nah u didn't Rogean made us give you those first kills, remember? You probably wern't there.

rose tinted glasses

[Splorf22]

100pp royalty payment to me for every post, IMO

GET YOUR OWN MONEY YENDOR

[falkun]

GET YOUR OWN MONEY YENDOR

He's a ranger, taking DTs doesn't pay as well as fungis or heiro cloaks.

[Pheer]

He's a ranger, taking DTs doesn't pay as well as fungis or heiro cloaks.

whats a ranger

[YendorLootmonkey]

whats a ranger

This guy is a ranger... see how he gets the ladies?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/13/article-2277879-17898693000005DC-409_634x641.jpg

[Pheer]

This guy is a ranger... see how he gets the ladies?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/13/article-2277879-17898693000005DC-409_634x641.jpg

pretty sure thats because of the sick mullet and has nothing to do with his archery skill

[Tasslehofp99]

all about the unbuttoned/rolled up at the top jeans, guys

[talian21]

i mean there is alot that can go wrong with a rotation and them are just a couple of the problems that will be faced.

An excellent observation, that there will be problems, please explain to us the change that will be problem-free so that we may begin to implement it immediately, thank you.





-Silisk, ikky necro

[Lazie]

An excellent observation, that there will be problems, please explain to us the change that will be problem-free so that we may begin to implement it immediately, thank you.





-Silisk, ikky necro

Raid mobs need to be tiered in a rotation. Any raid mob involving an epic piece needs to be one tier. Naggy and Vox need to be their own Tier and VP needs to be it's own Tier (At least until Velious releases).

No VP capable guild should touch Naggy or Vox from this point forward. Sure they have rez sticks and Bladestoppers but if you have pushed your guild into VP for the loot there you should be willing to surrender any benefit there was to raiding Naggy and Vox.

Epic Piece bosses such as....

Fay
Inny
Sev
VS
Trak
CT

These mobs need to be rotated by guilds on a spawn by spawn basis. They don't always drop epic pieces but every guild will have the same chance of getting an epic piece off these mobs. If guilds started on Naggy and Vox they should have red scales and white scales banked so Tal and Gore really do not need to be on this rotation. To be put on this rotation you start at the bottom and request to be on the Fay rotation.

If you get added to the Fay rotation and you do not advance off it until you cleanly kill Fay 2 times on that rotation. Then you can request to be added to the Inny rotation same thing goes. Kill Inny 2 times cleanly and get added to the next rotation. Now if the guild whose turn it is on that mob fails to kill the mob in their slot within 2 hours... The next guild on the rotation can choose to take their turn or let the guild keep trying (This can be worked out between those 2 guilds at the time). You go down the list with those mobs and use them as tiers to prove they deserve to be on the next mobs rotation.

Tal and Gore remain FFA. FTE wins the day on those 2 as they really don't drop epic pieces you can't get from Vox or Naggy or even Ragefire when you start on those mobs.

VP is self explanatory too. Once a guild has enough VP keys to attempt dragons in VP they have to start from easiest to most difficult again and prove they deserve to be on the rotation for those mobs. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Edit: Obviously I forgot Draco and Maestro and Freeti. Feel free to add how they should be added.

[radditsu]

Usually there are open dates or left up on a re pop to allow this.

[Lazie]

Usually there are open dates or left up on a re pop to allow this.

Yeah thanks for reminding me. They are rare here but they are also factored in.

[Lazie]

I threw that together in 3 minutes of typing off memory from the rotations we used. You guys can feel free to discuss it but it really was the best system I was apart of. Wealth got distributed equally based on how fast you progressed.

[radditsu]

Or leave something up for x hours on an open date then its ffa.


Also here you need to factor in alt guilds who want to ruin a rotation. You need some sort of guild vetting process. TMO has an continues to use alt guilds. I am sure that will not go away. It would be used by many factions.

[Frieza_Prexus]

The issues that generally exists with rotations are that they tend to operate by consensus which can be difficult to implement, they lead to inevitable bloat, and there tends to be a gatekeeper effect should the bloat be tackled. I was hoping to develop this idea more before bringing it up publicly, but I don't see the harm in doing so. Much of the tension throughout the life of the server has been the casual versus hardcore debate. It seems like the pendulum is swinging drastically in the other direction now.

My personal belief is that any system implemented should respect both sides to a fairly equal extent. I personally play the game for the thrill of racing to FTE a dragon. The rush and unpreparedness aspect makes the game exciting to me. However, I respect that the individual with a family and a demanding job also wants to experience at least a portion of the end game.

Basic Idea:

I think hunting limits for each guild would be an excellent solution, but it would work best with the introduction of simulated patch days with the variance remaining intact and the simulated patches being more strictly controlled in favor of lesser guilds.

Example #1: No guild may kill more than, say, 10 targets each week. the week begins on Sunday and ends on Saturday EST. However, simulated repops are treated differently in that they are 1) announced 24 hours (or something) ahead of time 2) the hunting limits FOR THAT REPOP are 4 targets (or whatever is reasonable) per a guild. On a repop, no one guild may kill more than two targets that they kill on the previous repop.

The benefits for this system are that it still encourages competition for the hardcore crowd during the normal hours of the server while maintaining a regularly restricted environment wherein the more casual players can be guaranteed a fair and reasonable chance at content. If a guild wants to spend hundreds of man hours tracking, they may do so and reap a very large benefit during the normal week. During a repop, they are restricted to a small amount of high-value targets, and those targets will change somewhat between repops.

Example #2: During the week a guild gets 10 targets and stops raiding. All other guilds are now free to take whatever targets they want without the pressure of the top guild hanging over them. Repop #1 occurs and the top guild takes out Trak, VS, PD, and Faydedar. A new week happens and the top guild resumes raiding to its maximum on any 10 targets. Repop #2 occurs and the top guild can kill 4 targets, but only TWO of the previous four from repop #1.

Conclusion:
This system simultaneously promotes two environments where both hardcores and casuals may see content. There is no oversight in determining who qualifies for a rotation, and no consensus or community input is necessary in running the system. It is self-enforcing, and minimal intervention is needed by the server staff to keep it operating. The key is that both camps (hardcore/casual) receive equal respect in that hardcores may "earn" greater rewards whereas the casuals are strongly protected thus ensuring they see certain content.

[Lazie]

I am biased I like my system. I like it for one specific reason though.. Any new players coming to the server that wants to form their own guild and progress. They have a path to do it. The only bottleneck is waiting their turn in a rotation and lets be honest this content and the Velious content is what the server is going to have for a long time. So people are going to get their opportunities.

The guilds at the top will still recruit better than the guilds at the bottom because they are already at the high end of the content. But if a guild wants to kill just Naggy and Vox and play casually they can keep their chars around 52 and do it to their hearts content.

[baramur]

Guild A kills Trak. Guild A can not engage Trak for 2 hours next spawn. Guild A kills this trak after 2 hour expires. Guild A cannot engage Trak at all next spawn. I suggested this long time ago. Works with any Mob or any guild combination. If any Guild kills a mob 2 out of 3 Times it mandatory another guild must have next kill. IF any 2 guilds get 4 kills in a row, BOTH guilds must sit out. Example: IB/FE 1st, TMO 2nd, IB/FE 3rd, TMO 4th, Both guilds must sit out 5th. You need some comptetion, and having a 100percent rotation kills all competition. But saying a guild can only kill X mob y number of times out of 5 spawns or something, frees it up for other guilds. Like saying ANY guild can only kill a mob 2 out of 5 times. This would mean one guild could monopolize only 40 percent of total content if they managed every single kill. Or you could make it 3 out of 5 i dunno, but the important thing to note would be no 2 guilds could get all 5 kills, so i think 2 out of 5 is plenty fair.

[Rellapse36]

This guy is a ranger... see how he gets the ladies?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/13/article-2277879-17898693000005DC-409_634x641.jpg

REPORTED FOR POSTING MY RL PICTURE !!!!@!@!@!

[radditsu]

I personally feel that a rotation is not the best course of action and something similar to baramur is a way to go.

In that way people who like to race CAN race to mobs. For some the hunt is the thrill.

That being said a consensus on a rotation would be a great thing to see.

Im a perfect world vox and naggy should be open raids put on for newbies 48-52 range. supported by core raid guilds...so that your 52 alts do not waste. Open rolls etc etc.

The economy is flooded with everything besides rez sticks and bladestoppers. It won't hurt any guild in the gear dept.

[Elements]

Raid mobs need to be tiered in a rotation. Any raid mob involving an epic piece needs to be one tier. Naggy and Vox need to be their own Tier and VP needs to be it's own Tier (At least until Velious releases).

No VP capable guild should touch Naggy or Vox from this point forward. Sure they have rez sticks and Bladestoppers but if you have pushed your guild into VP for the loot there you should be willing to surrender any benefit there was to raiding Naggy and Vox.

Epic Piece bosses such as....

Fay
Inny
Sev
VS
Trak
CT

These mobs need to be rotated by guilds on a spawn by spawn basis. They don't always drop epic pieces but every guild will have the same chance of getting an epic piece off these mobs. If guilds started on Naggy and Vox they should have red scales and white scales banked so Tal and Gore really do not need to be on this rotation. To be put on this rotation you start at the bottom and request to be on the Fay rotation.

If you get added to the Fay rotation and you do not advance off it until you cleanly kill Fay 2 times on that rotation. Then you can request to be added to the Inny rotation same thing goes. Kill Inny 2 times cleanly and get added to the next rotation. Now if the guild whose turn it is on that mob fails to kill the mob in their slot within 2 hours... The next guild on the rotation can choose to take their turn or let the guild keep trying (This can be worked out between those 2 guilds at the time). You go down the list with those mobs and use them as tiers to prove they deserve to be on the next mobs rotation.

Tal and Gore remain FFA. FTE wins the day on those 2 as they really don't drop epic pieces you can't get from Vox or Naggy or even Ragefire when you start on those mobs.

VP is self explanatory too. Once a guild has enough VP keys to attempt dragons in VP they have to start from easiest to most difficult again and prove they deserve to be on the rotation for those mobs. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Edit: Obviously I forgot Draco and Maestro and Freeti. Feel free to add how they should be added.

Naggy and Vox both drop epic pieces.

[Elements]

Guild A kills Trak. Guild A can not engage Trak for 2 hours next spawn. Guild A kills this trak after 2 hour expires. Guild A cannot engage Trak at all next spawn. I suggested this long time ago. Works with any Mob or any guild combination. If any Guild kills a mob 2 out of 3 Times it mandatory another guild must have next kill. IF any 2 guilds get 4 kills in a row, BOTH guilds must sit out. Example: IB/FE 1st, TMO 2nd, IB/FE 3rd, TMO 4th, Both guilds must sit out 5th. You need some comptetion, and having a 100percent rotation kills all competition. But saying a guild can only kill X mob y number of times out of 5 spawns or something, frees it up for other guilds. Like saying ANY guild can only kill a mob 2 out of 5 times. This would mean one guild could monopolize only 40 percent of total content if they managed every single kill. Or you could make it 3 out of 5 i dunno, but the important thing to note would be no 2 guilds could get all 5 kills, so i think 2 out of 5 is plenty fair.

How does this work for dragons in VP where TMO and FE are likely the only ones that can kill them like Hoshkar? Does it just stay up indefinitely?

[radditsu]

How does this work for dragons in VP where TMO and FE are likely the only ones that can kill them like Hoshkar? Does it just stay up indefinitely?

From the looks of it vp is ffa.


However those dragons have 32k hps. A guild can zerg em if they build up enough keys/dps. It wouldn't take a ton of ttime to build up....honestly.

Vp hit squads have killed dragons with 18ish toons.

[finalgrunt]

Any new system to be labelled better should meet the following requirements:

1°) GM intervention:
- Ideally the new system shouldn't require any intervention / monitoring from the staff.
- If the staff agrees, there could be enforcement of globally accepted rules made by players. In other words, if everybody agrees to a sensible system, and one group of players keeps breaking them, maybe the GMs could step in to punish the trouble makers. However, for this to work, the new system must make sense for almost everybody.

2°) Target distribution:
If the new system must be better, than it should give more opportunities for all guilds to get attempts at targets. The distribution spectrum is quite wide and goes from absolute rotation, where any guild would be given the same opportunities, to the old system, where 1 guild can take all targets. Since the old system was deemed unwanted by Rogean, and considering how players had different experiences during Classic era about competition, an in between solution will have to be found.
The new system should ensure that new raid forces should be able to enter the competition in one way or another.

3°) Undesired competition concepts:
It seems to me that the most important thing is for the guild leaders to gather and decide what aspects of the raiding scene should be kept / discarded / monitored. Examples are numerous:
- Training in VP
- Poopsocking
- FTE snipes
and so on.

4°) Engagement and raid interference:
Like the previous topic, this is also something that should be intensively discussed for the new system. What defines a raid force, an engagement, and raid interference. That's if the new system keeps races as a core mechanism.

[Ravager]

I personally feel that a rotation is not the best course of action and something similar to baramur is a way to go.

In that way people who like to race CAN race to mobs. For some the hunt is the thrill.

That being said a consensus on a rotation would be a great thing to see.

Im a perfect world vox and naggy should be open raids put on for newbies 48-52 range. supported by core raid guilds...so that your 52 alts do not waste. Open rolls etc etc.

The economy is flooded with everything besides rez sticks and bladestoppers. It won't hurt any guild in the gear dept.

Open Naggy and Vox raids would be a lot of fun in my opinion. Sirken can live stream 200 people LD. And I'm not saying this to be meant in a bad way. Would make for frequent and fun events the server could get behind since GM events can be sparse.

[finalgrunt]

In my opinion, a better system should be something that offers different experiences to the players. One which allows for sharing, races, competition to keep occuring. But to enforce rules that allows for all them together would be tedious if not impossible. So maybe the key is to allow different rule sets for different timeslots, and it's the Community that should discuss in which proportion each should be made available.

As an example (which is not what I advocate, but to make myself understood better): 3 weeks FFA, 2 weeks rotation.

Since I like the idea of competition, and I respect efforts and involvements from other players who want / can dedicate more time, it would only be fair to design a system which still rewards mobilisation, dedication and such. Just not to the extreme we've experienced in the past.

Therefore, and that's just my opinion here, a tiered system is needed. And the bases would go along like this:

- players agree on a tiered distribution of the targets.
- an alternance of periods between a rotation, and open competition. And the open competition period is used to assess the position of the guilds for each tier.
- a general set of rules which favors an healthy competition, and keeps things fun for everybody (for example, guilds can't camp or poopsock a target, no pulling allowed -guilds must run and engage the target where it is- etc.)
- keep very small windows open for open raids for lower tiered mobs, every now and then.

Example:

During 2 months, guilds who are allowed to compete in a tier will do so. Points are awarded to guilds (via a whokilledit.com kind of interface) like this:

- Mobilisation: 1 point
- Kill: 3 points
- (insert other ways to promote competition)

At the end of the 2 months, points are used to
1°) Demote guilds which do not meet requirements to stay in the tier
2°) Promote guilds which did meet highe requirements to also enter the next tier

Following this, a one month rotation is enforced for guilds which are considered worthy of the tiers.
A limit of engagement can be defined for each tier (like 1, 3 or 5 hours).

[Erasong]

there may be better options. some folks might be predicting doom and gloom. you all might be carebears.

what matters is you guys are TRYING to make this server a better place and by proxy extending the life and playability for most.

[olderj]

Open Naggy and Vox raids would be a lot of fun in my opinion. Sirken can live stream 200 people LD. And I'm not saying this to be meant in a bad way. Would make for frequent and fun events the server could get behind since GM events can be sparse.

I agree this would be fun. A good suggestion for Vox and Naggy.

[Brut]

/Lots of stuff
Was thinking similiar stuff. Limit number of raid targets a guild can kill, and the lesser priority targets are going to free up naturally since guilds would need to prioritize on what they want the most. 10 is a bit high amount imo though - there's about 25~ targets that spawn per week (counting 3 from dojo cycle), and there's probably 8 guilds all of which have the potential to slay all but a couple of them. Hold onto "dont go for same target twice in a row", limit number of mob kills to say 6 per guild, kill site updates the guild that got it with timers of mob deaths, all's hunky dory.

Someone can ofc paint demons on walls about how guilds are going to split off into smaller guilds, and yes, they should. 100+ active player rosters =/= classic. Not all guilds would prob reach their max killcount every week; some would aim for the big ones, not get em, tough luck there's the competition aspect. And all this time Gore would roam around terrorizing Dreadlands half the week as he/she's supposed to!

[Fael]

Edit

[radditsu]

Imo:

first in force /rotate ct and inny due to the issues involved in the zones. Tons of trains and can cause guild issues.


Vp : ffa

Trak: leave every 3rd ish spawn up to allow other guilds to get keys to compete in vp.

Naggy vox: open raid cluster funks for fun!

Open world dragons and vs: either rotated or trak rules.


Leave fte shouts in place to prevent accidents between quality raiders.

[fastboy21]

As someone who has intentionally stayed out of the high end raid game on this server I would point out two things:

1. The details of the agreement aren't whats important to me from the outside looking in. What is significant is that the raiding population on the server is willing to cooperate with one another.

2. That the spirit of cooperation we are seeing on the server right now only came into existence when TMO was removed from the system.

TMO (the organization and its policies---not its members) is not a friend of this server. They hurt the community more than they enhance it. Even folks who don't ever want to raid on p99 (like me) stand to benefit from raid guilds cooperating.

[Erasong]

server since the suspension.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBrLHMCTDAA

[Frieza_Prexus]

server since the suspension.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBrLHMCTDAA

The Endor Holocaust (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Endor_Holocaust)

[baramur]

VP= Rotation among guilds capable and keyed to kill in it. Same though if mob is up 4 hours you lose your chance to engage.

Trak= 2 out of 5 limit for initial engage. Free engage after mob is up 4 hours.

Vs= 2 out of 5 limit for initial engage. Free to engage after mob is up 4 hours.

Naggy/Vox Open raid style

Inny/CT first in zone with force. 2 out of 5 limit applies.

Draco/Maestro 3 our of 5 limit.

Dojo Rotation set, since set spawn time can plan it.

Server Repops: FFA, kills dont apply to limits.

Have All Raid leaders sit with all GM's and Draft a contract. Agree that if any guild breaks contract they will incur a 2 week raid suspension.

Will still be competition, but will still be a minimum of 3 guilds killing mobs.

Simple rule set that makes sense and makes sure not just the 2 top guilds ping the mobs back and forth.

[kingsBlend]

server since the suspension.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBrLHMCTDAA

heheh

[Raavak]

X-guild (the organization and its policies---not its members) is not a friend of this server. They hurt the community more than they enhance it. Even folks who don't ever want to raid on p99 (like me) stand to benefit from raid guilds cooperating.I am always amazed when posts are recycled ever year or two, with only the name changed, yet the poster and several respondents are totally oblivious to this. Hari Seldon could make use of P99 for some of his research into psychohistory.

[Strifer]

Great idea! Glad to see some good things happening around here

[Origin]

server since the suspension.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBrLHMCTDAA

Haha :D Awesome!

[Rogean]

I'd like the raid guilds to get together again, before Thursday, including TMO this time. I'd like to see an extension or new agreement going forward past 1/02 that includes TMO.

TMO You will be expected to abide by the agreement, so I suggest you participate and work with the other guilds respectfully.

[khanable]

I'd like the raid guilds to get together again, before Thursday, including TMO this time. I'd like to see an extension or new agreement going forward past 1/02 that includes TMO.

TMO You will be expected to abide by the agreement, so I suggest you participate and work with the other guilds respectfully.

wtb casual scum & hardcore hugfest subforum where only leadership/officers from each guild can post

casual scum4life

[radditsu]

I'd like the raid guilds to get together again, before Thursday, including TMO this time. I'd like to see an extension or new agreement going forward past 1/02 that includes TMO.

TMO You will be expected to abide by the agreement, so I suggest you participate and work with the other guilds respectfully.

http://jeff-timmons.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/praise-jesus-o.gif

[Byrjun]

Personally I'd love to see weekly simulated patch repops and removal of variance (and banned poopsocking), but obviously that would require the devs to agree with that solution. Honestly it's one of the most fair solutions, most classic, and probably most fun.

Barring that, some sort of rotation. The originally proposed "2 hour rule" is a step in the right direction, but I fear that it'll just be FE and IB switching off on raid mobs every other week and not much will change. It'd be great to figure out a plan that could include more than 2 guilds.

[Alarti0001]

I'd like the raid guilds to get together again, before Thursday, including TMO this time. I'd like to see an extension or new agreement going forward past 1/02 that includes TMO.

TMO You will be expected to abide by the agreement, so I suggest you participate and work with the other guilds respectfully.

LF Classic server.

[Rogean]

LF Classic server.

LF Less douchebags.

[Alarti0001]

LF Less douchebags.

Masshole says what?

[Nocsucow]

LF Less douchebags.

bann his ass rogean

[Ravager]

I think 20 new sigs were just created.

[Rogean]

Masshole says what?

And proud of it.

[Alarti0001]

And proud of it.

I know this is hard for you... but try to be impartial : )
A lot of this server came here because it was promised to be a classic server with classic raid rules. Gm enforcement of player created rotations.... not classic.

If you don't want to have a hardcore raid environment here... just say so, and alot of us can stop wasting our time.

[Brut]

3+ years waking up for batphones 24:7, talking about wasting time now?

[Alarti0001]

3+ years waking up for batphones 24:7, talking about wasting time now?

Lol I'm not allowed to wake up for batphones. G/f would murder me.
What now kid?

[radditsu]

Lol I'm not allowed to wake up for batphones. G/f would murder me.
What now kid?

It's over.


http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f231/CruxisAurion/timetostopposting.jpg

[Ravager]

If you don't want to have a hardcore raid environment here... just say so, and alot of us can stop wasting everyone else's time.

ftfy

[Alarti0001]

ftfy

I have a server rotation proposal.

TMO will be hosting a rotation on all mobs. TMO will be breaking up into 12 smaller guilds and will take the first 12 slots. See you in 3 months guild 13.

[heazels]

LF Classic server.

classic servers did not have cell phones or pixel scrapers that sent text messages the moment a dragon spawned.

[radditsu]

I have a server rotation proposal.

TMO will be hosting a rotation on all mobs. TMO will be breaking up into 12 smaller guilds and will take the first 12 slots. See you in 3 months guild 13.

Poor Alarti

[fastboy21]

I am always amazed when posts are recycled ever year or two, with only the name changed, yet the poster and several respondents are totally oblivious to this. Hari Seldon could make use of P99 for some of his research into psychohistory.

First, I'm not oblivious to the server history. I have been playing here since almost the very beginning.

Second, you are right that TMO isn't the first guild that I could have said what I said about. What is interesting to me is that you seem to think that because other guilds have been as bad or worse than TMO that TMO's behavior is okay.

TMO's behavior hurts p99. Congrats on not being the first guild to be versed in asshat behavior. Now, stop being an asshat.

Actually, I hope you don't stop. Its pretty clear that Rogean means business this time and when you all come back from your little vacation TMO either is going to put its tail beneath its legs and comply with the new rules or they are going down in flames.

Personally, I would like for TMO to be banned, suspended, and watch it go down. Its just more fun to watch.

[Ravager]

I have a server rotation proposal.

TMO will be hosting a rotation on all mobs. TMO will be breaking up into 12 smaller guilds and will take the first 12 slots. See you in 3 months guild 13.

Do it, I've waited 3 years. I'm patient. I don't expect you'll last though.

[Brut]

alot of us can stop wasting our time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6RoOwSKI7M

On a more interesting note, hoping seriously that variances can be cut down drastically once some agreement is met. Someone can prob link that old thread from 2012 where Nilborg had a list of good dreamy stuff about full repops and window cutdowns.

[YendorLootmonkey]

LF Classic server.

LF a classic server that can be enjoyed by as many people as possible, I would hope you mean, good sir.

[webrunner5]

I have a server rotation proposal.

TMO will be hosting a rotation on all mobs. TMO will be breaking up into 12 smaller guilds and will take the first 12 slots. See you in 3 months guild 13.

Heh, good one. :cool:

[Alarti0001]

LF a classic server that can be enjoyed by as many people as possible, I would hope you mean, good sir.

Those are called progression servers... "classicness" is not as important... enjoy your Defiant armor.

[Holey]

why not just turn on guild pvp before mob spawns and let them pvp for it? lol

[Nocsucow]

classic servers did not have cell phones or pixel scrapers that sent text messages the moment a dragon spawned.

this is true

[radditsu]

why not just turn on guild pvp before mob spawns and let them pvp for it? lol


Does red server even pvp on raid mobs? Don't you guys get up at 7 am on a sunday and kill things unopposed?

[YendorLootmonkey]

I have a server rotation proposal.

TMO will be hosting a rotation on all mobs. TMO will be breaking up into 12 smaller guilds and will take the first 12 slots. See you in 3 months guild 13.

You're aware posts like this are why you've managed to put TMO on the receiving end of everyone else's ire and disgust, much to the chagrin of any decent people in TMO that remain, right? You must have some good dirt on TMO leadership if they haven't cut you out like a cancer by this point.

And if that wasn't enough, you're playing a game of chicken with Rogean. You are completely unbelievable. Your personality has nearly singlehandedly tainted the entire server.

[MaksimMazor]

Enjoy your free loot BDA

Taking casual to a whole new level

[Rogean]

If you don't want to have a hardcore raid environment here... just say so, and alot of us can stop wasting our time.

Sure.

Server staff is tired of having one guild take raids to such hardcore extremes that they shit all over everyone else and make headaches for the server staff and the rest of the player base.

So yes, please stop wasting your time trying to make everyone hate you.

[Asap]

Alarti lets see your girlfriend

[contemptor]

I know this is hard for you... but try to be impartial : )
A lot of this server came here because it was promised to be a classic server with classic raid rules. Gm enforcement of player created rotations.... not classic.

If you don't want to have a hardcore raid environment here... just say so, and alot of us can stop wasting our time.
Yes, this is all about Rogean being impartial and nothing to do with the fact that the 5% TMO makes the game unpleasant for 75% of the server. Without TMO killing every dragon for 3 more years, there can be no hardcore raid scene.

[Purdee]

LF Less douchebags.


LMAO. Slain.

[contemptor]

You're aware posts like this are why you've managed to put TMO on the receiving end of everyone else's ire and disgust, much to the chagrin of any decent people in TMO that remain, right? You must have some good dirt on TMO leadership if they haven't cut you out like a cancer by this point.

And if that wasn't enough, you're playing a game of chicken with Rogean. You are completely unbelievable. Your personality has nearly singlehandedly tainted the entire server.
No Alarti is not aware. Hes convinced its all due to GM bias and spin.

[MaksimMazor]

I was a BDA app for 8 months before joining TMO 1 year 1 month ago

[radditsu]

Sure.

Server staff is tired of having one guild take raids to such hardcore extremes that they shit all over everyone else and make headaches for the server staff and the rest of the player base.

So yes, please stop wasting your time trying to make everyone hate you.


http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/3988766/praise-him-o.gif


http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/snoopy_dance.gif

[contemptor]

Sure.

Server staff is tired of having one guild take raids to such hardcore extremes that they shit all over everyone else and make headaches for the server staff and the rest of the player base.

So yes, please stop wasting your time trying to make everyone hate you.
I don't think anyone could say it much better than this. I hope the new TMO realizes people like Alarti are a poison to their guild and puts their leadership in more reasonable hands.

[Splorf22]

Sure.

Server staff is tired of having one guild take raids to such hardcore extremes that they shit all over everyone else and make headaches for the server staff and the rest of the player base.

So yes, please stop wasting your time trying to make everyone hate you.

It's been pretty funny for me to watch Eccezan, Alarti, and Fabben act as though it would be some sort of disaster for the server if they quit. Alarti particularly has gone full retard in this thread.

That being said, please allow me to bang my drum again and repeat my usual points:

Simultaneous repops allow competition without douchebaggery
Variance makes it hard for casual guilds even if the raid guilds are inclined to play nice
The 2 hour / 2 week rule is mostly just FE/IB rule lawyering against TMO
I'd be happy to see any sort of reasonable agreement among the more hardcore guilds, even if it doesn't involve The A-Team killing a lot of stuff, just in the hope that the attitudes will change and the server will be more of a fun place

[Alarti0001]

You're aware posts like this are why you've managed to put TMO on the receiving end of everyone else's ire and disgust, much to the chagrin of any decent people in TMO that remain, right? You must have some good dirt on TMO leadership if they haven't cut you out like a cancer by this point.

And if that wasn't enough, you're playing a game of chicken with Rogean. You are completely unbelievable. Your personality has nearly singlehandedly tainted the entire server.

Do you realize a tongue and cheek joke when you see one>?

Stop playing the victim, and have some fun. This is a game treat it as such, you hardly play and when you are around you are spouting anti-tmo propaganda. I am sorry I or TMO has ruined your life. Why the hell are you here if you are always soooo angry?

[lazcar]

How does Alarti get away with disrespecting almost everyone on this server including the staff?

Classic...

Batphone is not classic. Poopsocking every dragon is not classic. A full guild of multiple geared level 60 alts is not classic. More than 512 MB ram is not classic. Logging in the game in under a minute is not classic. Being able to google nearly everything about the game is not classic. 4 years of kunark is not classic. 3 years of one guild preventing every other guild from beating kunark is not classic. Overwhelming greed is not classic.

Your arguments are asinine Alarti. Take your own advice and go to progression. Bother sony instead of the hard working staff that keep this beautiful project together.


Phatez

[Rogean]

I'd love to sit here and watch Alarti get owned @ Forumquest but gotta go to an install.

[heazels]

How does Alarti get away with disrespecting almost everyone on this server including the staff?

Classic...

Batphone is not classic. Poopsocking every dragon is not classic. A full guild of multiple geared level 60 alts is not classic. More than 512 MB ram is not classic. Logging in the game in under a minute is not classic. Being able to google nearly everything about the game is not classic. 4 years of kunark is not classic. 3 years of one guild preventing every other guild from beating kunark is not classic. Overwhelming greed is not classic.

Your arguments are asinine Alarti. Take your own advice and go to progression. Bother sony instead of the hard working staff that keep this beautiful project together.


Phatez

^

[Alarti0001]

Sure.

Server staff is tired of having one guild take raids to such hardcore extremes that they shit all over everyone else and make headaches for the server staff and the rest of the player base.

So yes, please stop wasting your time trying to make everyone hate you.

Rogean.. which guild was suspended multiple times recently for playing badly on the raid scene. I know it wasn't TMO. TMO plays by the rules, respects FTE's, doesn't KS other's targets or train others raid intentionally(FE).

TMO was suspended for non-raid related actions. Would you like to revise your statement now... because you are either mis-informed or highly biased at this point.
Maybe you should talk to Sirken and Deru.. and ask them who has been causing problems on the raid scene.

[Fuddwin]

Poor Alarti

[Fuddwin]

Have there been any problems since TMO suspension?

[Nocsucow]

Rogean.. which guild was suspended multiple times recently for playing badly on the raid scene. I know it wasn't TMO. TMO plays by the rules, respects FTE's, doesn't KS other's targets or train others raid intentionally(FE).

TMO was suspended for non-raid related actions. Would you like to revise your statement now... because you are either mis-informed or highly biased at this point.
Maybe you should talk to Sirken and Deru.. and ask them who has been causing problems on the raid scene.

WHO FUCKING CARES its time for a change so SHUT THE FUCK UP OR GTFO plain and simple

[MaksimMazor]

Killing Dragons > not doing anything

[YendorLootmonkey]

Do you realize a tongue and cheek joke when you see one>?

Stop playing the victim, and have some fun. This is a game treat it as such, you hardly play and when you are around you are spouting anti-tmo propaganda. I am sorry I or TMO has ruined your life. Why the hell are you here if you are always soooo angry?

Not angry at all... just calling you and your like-minded buddies in TMO out for your toxic personalities and what they have done to the raid scene here. And now Rogean has come out and bluntly stated the same thing. So it's not just propaganda, Alarti. If anyone is angry or feeling like their existences are ruined because you will no longer monopolize content, it kinda seems like you are.

[heazels]

I was a BDA app for 8 months before joining TMO 1 year 1 month ago

And you may have gear, but when your tag has a bad reputation, no one cares what gear you had....

And when your character is always camped out at raid bosses, no one even knows you have gear. Its like you dont exist...

[Fuddwin]

Lol I'm not allowed to wake up for batphones. G/f would murder me.
What now kid?

Poor Alarti

Prove it!

[MaksimMazor]

I'm sorry guys BDA was not for me, no need to get butthurt

[Alarti0001]

Not angry at all... just calling you and your like-minded buddies in TMO out for your toxic personalities and what they have done to the raid scene here. And now Rogean has come out and bluntly stated the same thing. So it's not just propaganda, Alarti. If anyone is angry or feeling like their existences are ruined because you will no longer monopolize content, it kinda seems like you are.

You have always assumed i get kicks for monopolizing content. You would be wrong. My play time takes a dive when there isnt competition. I do enjoy racing for a mob and winning. I'll admit to that.

[heazels]

I'm sorry guys BDA was not for me, no need to get butthurt

and now no one on the server even knows who you are bc your always camped out at the next spawn point. How does it feel that no one cares you have pixels?

[MaksimMazor]

I'm sorry I don't know who you are

[Aeaolena]

Do you realize a tongue and cheek joke when you see one>?

This is the saddest ass-whipping-from-Rogean recovery-attempt I've ever seen. :P

I don't know whether to laugh, or sincerely feel... pity. Damn.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Enjoy your free loot BDA

Taking casual to a whole new level

The only butthurt is quoted above. Metallikus is just pointing out your hypocrisy and selling out for pixels.

[Alarti0001]

and now no one on the server even knows who you are bc your always camped out at the next spawn point. How does it feel that no one cares you have pixels?

You seem to care alot.

[Alarti0001]

This is the saddest ass-whipping recovery-attempt I've ever seen. :P

I don't know whether to laugh, or sincerely feel... pity. Damn.

Oh I'm sorry did you think tmo splitting into 12 guilds was real? Unplug from the matrix kid.

[heazels]

I'm sorry I don't know who you are

of course you dont, your so obsessed with pixels its like you dont exist on the server...

[Nocsucow]

You have always assumed i get kicks for monopolizing content. You would be wrong. My play time takes a dive when there isnt competition. I do enjoy racing for a mob and winning. I'll admit to that.

how can you say this when you had a 1 1/2 year window of NO COMPETITION ... how many of your fucking alts have VP gear be honest .. dude you and TMO need to get a fucking life .the amount of hours you guys spend logged on everyday is just fucking retarded

[Lammy]

It's been pretty funny for me to watch Eccezan, Alarti, and Fabben act as though it would be some sort of disaster for the server if they quit.
[/list]


Please provide any evidence where I threatened to quit? idiot

[Alarti0001]

Please provide any evidence where I threatened to quit? idiot

Shhh its just Loraen... He makes up shit almost as frequently as Yendor.
Speaking ... lol at Yendor for the great Doljon is a TMO alt guild "proof list"

[Splorf22]

A lot of this server came here because it was promised to be a classic server with classic raid rules.

With no variance.

Every time you bitch about carebears and GM rotations I'm going to point out that without variance you would not be in this position at all. The Rogean giveth and the Rogean taketh away.

[kaev]

Rogean.. which guild was suspended multiple times recently for playing badly on the raid scene. I know it wasn't TMO. TMO plays by the rules, respects FTE's, doesn't KS other's targets or train others raid intentionally(FE).

TMO was suspended for non-raid related actions. Would you like to revise your statement now... because you are either mis-informed or highly biased at this point.
Maybe you should talk to Sirken and Deru.. and ask them who has been causing problems on the raid scene.

You really can't see that posts like this, read in the context of all that TMO has done and all that you have posted, make you appear to be a tin-plated ass? Really? :shakesheadsadly:

[heazels]

EQ is about reputation, and TMO is the retarted kid with biggest sand castle. And the rest of the people on the beach are wondering what you are cheering at

[YendorLootmonkey]

I do enjoy racing for a mob and winning. I'll admit to that.

Having multiple fully geared/buffed toons/alts (bought with plat from who knows where given recent findings) at everything in window waiting to log in as soon as the batphone goes off is not racing.

Having Botnet feed you VD private info so you can turn around and use it on RNF and chase off your competition instead of actually, you know, competing, is not racing.

The problem was not the competition. The problem was the extreme measures taken which made raiding on this server miserable for everyone that was decent enough to not resort to those extreme measures.

[Aeaolena]

Having multiple fully geared/buffed toons/alts (bought with plat from who knows where given recent findings) at everything in window waiting to log in as soon as the batphone goes off is not racing.

Having Botnet feed you VD private info so you can turn around and use it on RNF and chase off your competition instead of actually, you know, competing, is not racing.

The problem was not the competition. The problem was the extreme measures taken which made raiding on this server miserable for everyone that was decent enough to not resort to those extreme measures.
^

[Nocsucow]

TMO didn't know who you were when you gt booted for low raid attendance.

Then, when you went crying to FE to app, TMO re-invited you because they didn't want VP keyed rogues going to the competition.

You are just a number. 60rogue_0015

ouch.......

[Ravager]

The difference between TMO and everyone who doesn't join TMO, is everyone who doesn't join TMO isn't interested in gearing 4 alts with BiS gear. They'd be happy just to gear their mains. If over the last couple of years, TMO tried to reach out to the rest of the server and come to any kind of terms, they still could have kept 75% of the mobs to themselves, geared 4 alts in BiS and the rest of the server would be able to gear their mains without paying 1,000,000p for a fucking epic piece, and be happy with that.

But now that TMO can't claim 90% of the raid mobs anymore, apparently the server is worse off.

[Archalen]

Take it easy people, Alarti is in danger of developing a mild dissociative disorder. His identity, which is intimately linked to this server, came tumbling down a couple weeks ago :(

[heazels]

Having multiple fully geared/buffed toons/alts (bought with plat from who knows where given recent findings) at everything in window waiting to log in as soon as the batphone goes off is not racing.

Having Botnet feed you VD private info so you can turn around and use it on RNF and chase off your competition instead of actually, you know, competing, is not racing.

The problem was not the competition. The problem was the extreme measures taken which made raiding on this server miserable for everyone that was decent enough to not resort to those extreme measures.

You may as well be playing with yourself on an empty private server...no one ever sees your characters cause they are always logged out at boss mobs, so no one cares if you have gear or not.

[Asap]

TMO didn't know who you were when you gt booted for low raid attendance.

Then, when you went crying to FE to app, TMO re-invited you because they didn't want VP keyed rogues going to the competition.

You are just a number. 60rogue_0015

damn dude, game over

[Fuddwin]

TMO didn't know who you were when you gt booted for low raid attendance.

Then, when you went crying to FE to app, TMO re-invited you because they didn't want VP keyed rogues going to the competition.

You are just a number. 60rogue_0015

Poor Gabobrik (Variety)

[MaksimMazor]

I'm glad you have followed and memorized my entire server history. Thanks

BDA cares

[YendorLootmonkey]

Oh I'm sorry did you think tmo splitting into 12 guilds was real? Unplug from the matrix kid.

No one said it was real. Let me help you understand the bigger picture. I called you out on once again fueling the fire and only propagating negative conditions on this server and its community. And then wondering why every single one of us is sick of it and wants you gone so you can't poison this community anymore.

[Alarti0001]

TMO didn't know who you were when you gt booted for low raid attendance.

Then, when you went crying to FE to app, TMO re-invited you because they didn't want VP keyed rogues going to the competition.

You are just a number. 60rogue_0015

We only have 4 rogues.

[Alarti0001]

No one said it was real. Let me help you understand the bigger picture. I called you out on once again fueling the fire and only propagating negative conditions on this server and its community. And then wondering why every single one of us is sick of it and wants you gone so you can't poison this community anymore.

I say you are poisoning this community from a different side.

[Purdee]

You have always assumed i get kicks for monopolizing content. You would be wrong. My play time takes a dive when there isnt competition. I do enjoy racing for a mob and winning. I'll admit to that.

What you do isn't racing. Logging onto a fully buffs camped out raid force isn't racing. Stop trying to grasp onto your weak argument. The owner of the server, and pretty much every other guild has spoken. Don't like it? There's the door.

[Raavak]

What you do isn't racing. Logging onto a fully buffs camped out raid force isn't racing. Stop trying to grasp onto your weak argument. The owner of the server, and pretty much every other guild has spoken. Don't like it? There's the door.
You are free to use it too. Here let me get it for you.

[Raavak]

I'd love to sit here and watch Alarti get owned @ Forumquest but gotta go to an install.
I dunno, all I see Alarti having fun and guys like Yendor about to pop a vein in their head.

[Purdee]

You are free to use it too. Here let me get it for you.

What's that? Buying an alt army? No. You clowns had that accomplished before it was banned, using plat from monopolizing, and other "shady tactics".

[sanforce]

All loot that drops off of future carebear raid mobs should be hot pink, to distinguish from loot that was actually competed for and loot that was handed out to carebear cry babies. Just my 2 cents...

[Asap]

All loot that drops off of future carebear raid mobs should be hot pink, to distinguish from loot that was actually competed for and loot that was handed out to carebear cry babies. Just my 2 cents...

aww, afraid the pixels you "earned" are going to mean nothing in a few weeks?

[radditsu]

All loot that drops off of future carebear raid mobs should be hot pink, to distinguish from loot that was actually competed for and loot that was handed out to carebear cry babies. Just my 2 cents...

noted, now you can go away :)

[Aeaolena]

I dunno, all I see Alarti having fun and guys like Yendor about to pop a vein in their head.

*pats you on the head* Dawww, you're so cute.

[heazels]

aww, afraid the pixels you "earned" are going to mean nothing in a few weeks?

they already mean nothing, when no one cares if you have loot, its like the loot never existed. Thats how eq works...

[Nocsucow]

I dunno, all I see Alarti having fun and guys like Yendor about to pop a vein in their head.

got something on you're nose bro

[Ravager]

aww, afraid the pixels you "earned" are going to mean nothing in a few weeks?

They mean nothing now.

[Asap]

They mean nothing now.

To us, they mean nothing. To him, they mean everything.

[heazels]

To us, they mean nothing. To him, they mean everything.

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/de/d3/a7/ded3a7dc754b4aa4e87b45122033569f.jpg

[sanforce]

Hah my reply was obviously a joke. Come on people, we can have a little fun in these 12 year old elf simulator discussions.

We are no-life losers for wanting to compete on these pixels 24/7, y'all are carebeaer cry babies for wanting free pixel handouts.

[Ravager]

Hah my reply was obviously a joke. Come on people, we can have a little fun in these 12 year old elf simulator discussions.

We are no-life losers for wanting to compete on these pixels 24/7, y'all are carebeaer cry babies for wanting free pixel handouts.

It's remarks like this that ruin conversations that are attempting to make this server more enjoyable for everyone. They're selfish, narrow-minded and are an obstacle to any real progress (though I'm sure that's the point). I don't see what's fun about shitting on other people. Everyone already knows how you feel by the first 10 posts you made like this. If you still want attention, make a post about it in RnF.

LF less douchebags.

[toosweet]

I loot...therefore I am

[Robdukes]

Funny part to me is: TMO saying every other guild wants free carebear pixel handouts.

I don't have my epic on my main, nor do I have VP loots. They just aren't what I'm enjoying about EQ currently.

But If I do want my epic or VP loots I always said I'd just App TMO

Joining TMO IS wanting carebear pixel handouts. It doesn't get easier than joining the guild that has all the loot in their bank and downs most of the big targets on the regular.

You want to really work for your epic? Join one of the smaller guilds.

[sanforce]

It's remarks like this that ruin conversations that are attempting to make this server more enjoyable for everyone. They're selfish, narrow-minded and are an obstacle to any real progress (though I'm sure that's the point). I don't see what's fun about shitting on other people. Everyone already knows how you feel by the first 10 posts you made like this. If you still want attention, make a post about it in RnF.

LF less douchebags.

This thread has no direction and is of limited value anyways. You calling me a douchebag doesn't help your position either, it looks like you are upset that I called someone a carebear and you immediately turn around and label me a douchebag. At least mine was a joke.

[Raavak]

What's that? Buying an alt army? No. You clowns had that accomplished before it was banned, using plat from monopolizing, and other "shady tactics".What alts? What purchased characters? You are talking about 1 or 2 people and applying it to 100. So sad you understand so little. I bet you have more alts than I do.

And its not carebear to be in TMO. You need to help out or you won't even get in. I could give you a list of people who didn't make to cut so they can tell you. If you've never tried and think you could even make the cut, you could possibly be quite disappointed.

[Ravager]

This thread has no direction and is of limited value anyways. You calling me a douchebag doesn't help your position either, it looks like you are upset that I called someone a carebear and you immediately turn around and label me a douchebag. At least mine was a joke.

Right. A thread with a standing current raid agreement, that the man who runs the server posted in to say 'keep up these kinds of talks' is of limited value. May as well just send it to RnF as there's no point in moderating it.

You're right though, maybe I'm the jerk for implying that a guy who walks into a thread and calls people names is a douchebag. I apologize. Anyway, I'll stop derailing this.

[Purdee]

What alts? What purchased characters? You are talking about 1 or 2 people and applying it to 100. So sad you understand so little. I bet you have more alts than I do.

And its not carebear to be in TMO. You need to help out or you won't even get in. I could give you a list of people who didn't make to cut so they can tell you. If you've never tried and think you could even make the cut, you could possibly be quite disappointed.

Oh please, quit playing the victim. Only two people in your guild have raid ready alts?

What's sad, is watching a few of you trying to spin the information anyway you can, to possibly save your stranglehold in the server.

Don't tell me what I don't understand, I know the 86 accounts banned consumed many innocents, expect for the fact accounts were shared. You take the risk, reap the rewards.....

[YendorLootmonkey]

I say you are poisoning this community from a different side.

Says the guy whose guild has cockblocked the raid scene for years and even got called out by Rogean for doing so. Tell me again how I am poisoning the community for any non-TMO?

I will admit you started out in that other future raid scene proposal thread very constructive and positive, so I will give you that.

[Alarti0001]

Says the guy whose guild has cockblocked the raid scene for years and even got called out by Rogean for doing so. Tell me again how I am poisoning the community for any non-TMO?

I will admit you started out in that other future raid scene proposal thread very constructive and positive, so I will give you that.

You don't post anything constructive. You are just a negative ball of Anti-tmo energy. The raid scene isnt cockblocked ANYONE can compete there. These are 32k dragons people. You can not blame TMO for your lack of time/effort.

TMO isnt the problem, TMO is the result of how this sever is shaped. If you want to fix the problem you need to reshape the server, not TMO.

Your vitriol and hatred in NO way helps the server. It is just divisory bullshit.

[YendorLootmonkey]

You don't post anything constructive. You are just a negative ball of Anti-tmo energy. The raid scene isnt cockblocked ANYONE can compete there. These are 32k dragons people. You can not blame TMO for your lack of time/effort.

TMO isnt the problem, TMO is the result of how this sever is shaped. If you want to fix the problem you need to reshape the server, not TMO.

Your vitriol and hatred in NO way helps the server. It is just divisory bullshit.

You still don't get it, do you?

Buying up a bunch of toons and logging multiple raid forces at multiple targets is NOT competition. Chasing off VD by having Botnet sink our ship internally via subterfuge is NOT competition. Rules-lawyering everything to find the loopholes and then crying to GMs to close the loopholes when they get used against you is NOT competition. Posting taunts and non-constructive shit in RNF every time a guild attempts a mob and wipes when you know damn well you own guild doesn't always execute flawlessly is NOT competition. It is only "competition" to a group of sociopaths that have taken the raiding scene to the extremes that has made EVERYONE ELSE that shares this server miserable.

"Oh, well nothing is stopping you from doing it to us" is exactly the problem you and your ilk perpetuate. No one else wants to stoop that low. Rogean is tired of these shenanigans being the barrier to entry into the raid scene.

Prove it? Ask anyone who has been part of the raid scene without TMO involved this last week what "healthy" competition looks like. If wanting a more enjoyable, healthy raid environment makes me "a hater full of vitriol", then so be it.

[arsenalpow]

You still don't get it, do you?

Buying up a bunch of toons and logging multiple raid forces at multiple targets is NOT competition. Chasing off VD by having Botnet sink our ship internally via subterfuge is NOT competition. Rules-lawyering everything to find the loopholes and then crying to GMs to close the loopholes is NOT competition. Posting taunts and non-constructive shit in RNF every time a guild attempts a mob and wipes when you know damn well you own guild doesn't always execute flawlessly is NOT competition. It is only "competition" to a group of sociopaths that have taken the raiding scene to the extremes that has made EVERYONE ELSE that shares this server miserable.

"Oh, well nothing is stopping you from doing it to us" is exactly the problem you and your ilk perpetuate. No one else wants to stoop that low. Rogean is tired of these shenanigans being the barrier to entry into the raid scene.

Prove it? Ask anyone who has been part of the raid scene without TMO involved this last week what "healthy" competition looks like.

[Raavak]

Buying an alt army?
Only two people in your guild have raid ready alts?

You said buy.

The members of FE were generally the people buying alts. Notice how they went from competitive to losing regularly once the trade ban was instituted.

TMO has a fair amount of alts, that we played from lvl 1. Why? Because we like to play and play often. What this boils down to is you hate how we play more than you do. But since you can't keep up in play time you want rules instituted to let people who play less get the same things as those who play more. And that's a fact.

[Alarti0001]

You still don't get it, do you?

Buying up a bunch of toons and logging multiple raid forces at multiple targets is NOT competition.

Most of us leveled toons... because its fun.

Chasing off VD by having Botnet sink our ship internally via subterfuge is NOT competition.

More of that tin-hat crazy talk. VD died because they had crazy pride and couldn't win.

Rules-lawyering everything to find the loopholes and then crying to GMs to close the loopholes when they get used against you is NOT competition.

Exampes? Or is this just more accusations without substance.

Posting taunts and non-constructive shit in RNF every time a guild attempts a mob and wipes when you know damn well you own guild doesn't always execute flawlessly is NOT competition.

That is RnF...it is the place for non-constructive shit. You can ignore the entire RNF section if you like.

It is only "competition" to a group of sociopaths that have taken the raiding scene to the extremes that has made EVERYONE ELSE that shares this server miserable.

Yendor youngpsycologist.

"Oh, well nothing is stopping you from doing it to us" is exactly the problem you and your ilk perpetuate. No one else wants to stoop that low.

Doing what to whom? We raid. We don't cheat/train etc.

Rogean is tired of these shenanigans being the barrier to entry into the raid scene.

Let Rogean speak for himself

Prove it? Ask anyone who has been part of the raid scene without TMO involved this last week what "healthy" competition looks like.

So your proof is that people who don't compete for mobs like getting free shit? No shit. If I walk into a Target and they want to give me a free blender I'd be happy too. Look up the definition of scarcity

If wanting a more enjoyable, healthy raid environment makes me "a hater full of vitriol", then so be it.

Healthy,enjoyable defined by who?



This post is exactly what I am talking about. Just a bunch of spewed mis-informed hated. NOTHING productive there.
Thanks for demonstrating exactly what I was talking about.