Feign Death issues (DOTs & Snares)

[baalzy]

Noticed this last night. If I DOT a mob that's low enough to have agro clear automatically (less than 40 or whatever, I don't remember what level it is mobs have a chance of remembering after a feign) and then feign death. When I stand up the mob should re-agro me next tick when my DOT deals damage to it. This is not happening, the DOT continues running and the mob will begin pathing away.


http://www.project1999.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-45226.html
Posted by SirAlvarex:
4) Necro applied DoTs on the mob will continue to run, however they do not generate aggro on the necro unless the necro stands up during one of the ticks. If the mob dies while FD'd, you do not get credit for the kill (it vanishes like an NPC kill without a corpse).
1 and 2 were observed while hunting casters in LOIO. 4 I noticed at Aviak village. 3 was just unfortunate.


So it appears this used to work at one point.

Additionally when I snare a mob and then feign, the mob also paths back to its origin instead of standing still until the snare wears off.

Shadowfrost
07-30-2003, 07:05 AM
As well as my cleric, I have a 62 monk. There is no question in my mind that my cleric is a considerably better puller than my monk. Pacification trivializes pulling.

In order of "preferred puller" I'd go with:

1. Bard. Lull, mezz, fading memories, track.
2. Cleric. Pacification, root, stun, and usually the ability to take a beating.
3. Enchanter. Pacification, root, mezz.
4. SK. Feign death, DA, snare, and the ability to take a beating.
5. Necro. Feign death, DA, snare, root.
6. Monk. Feign death.
7. Ranger. Harmony, snare, root, track and the ability to take a beating.
8. Druid. Harmony, snare, root and track.
9+ The rest.


From 2006 but I remember and I know many others have said they remember this same thing during classic

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=1&mid=1144949709181023154


FD pull is best done by some class that can snare.

example:

necro and sk with darkness.

cast dark on 1 mob in a group, let the group start to run toward you (note the one that has dark on it will not be moving near as fast) and wait for the snared mob to get to a point that will be OUTSIDE of normal agro range of their spawn point.

FD, when this works, agro is dropped and the mobs will "walk" back to their spawn points.

this is why it is best done by a necro or sk (yes monks can do this too, just not as easy). a mob with dark on it can not walk. they are stuck in place.

once all of the mobs that are NOT the target have returned to their spawn point, you can stand up and continue the attack on the original target.

this will make it easier to solo that 1 mob, or for the group to handle the single pull vs group pull. it will also make it easier to split the spawn on a camp, again making the pulling faster, safer, and more efficient.

once the spawn is split as long as you can stay ahead of the respawn rate you are a god for that camp.

[Visual]

If this was classic I WANT IT BK DAMNIT

[Autotune]

There are 2 non-classic things that happen on this server that never used to:
1) Dot Ticks ignoring re-aggro rule after feign death. When a mob is dotted and you feign, the mob fails to reaggro while your dot continues to tick.

2) Fully resisted nukes that do NO DAMAGE break feign death. Spells without a direct damage component break feign death. This was not classic, I remember playing a monk and shadow knight in Vellious and hoping that I would resist a caster nuke so that feign death doesn't break. This is not the case here.

um, these things were working like this awhile back.

[Treats]

There are 2 non-classic things that happen on this server that never used to:
1) Dot Ticks ignoring re-aggro rule after feign death. When a mob is dotted and you feign, the mob fails to reaggro while your dot continues to tick.

2) Fully resisted nukes that do NO DAMAGE break feign death. Spells without a direct damage component break feign death. This was not classic, I remember playing a monk and shadow knight in Vellious and hoping that I would resist a caster nuke so that feign death doesn't break. This is not the case here.

1) DoT ticks should reaggro but not if you have a successful mem wipe on Feign. If the NPC resets it WILL NOT reaggro because of a DoT tick.

2) No. Any spell cast on a player that was FD regardless if it was resisted or not broke the Feign. You needed to Feign in between NPC casts or wait for refresh if you got hit.

[CodyF86]

um, these things were working like this awhile back.

If I remember correctly, this all happened with the patch that brought FD to working how it does now, with merbs remembering you once you stand up without sneak on.

Before the patch you would drop all aggro no matter what after fding and could be hit by any spell resisted or not resisted and fd wouldn't break.

After that patch, we have the current fd mechanics along with fd breaking if you get cast on after you flop no matter what, so that is when the change happened.

But yeah I think breaking when resisted is not correct atm.

This talks about a patch that occurred in 2005 that made FD break even if the spell
was resisted, which means before this patch FD did not break if you resisted the spell.

http://eqnecro.info/board/viewtopic.php?printertopic=1&t=1566&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&finish_rel=-10000

But ^^ after reading all of that link seems they arent even actually sure, gonna have to dig some more....

Aaradin
The A-Team

[Arteker]

If I remember correctly, this all happened with the patch that brought FD to working how it does now, with merbs remembering you once you stand up without sneak on.

Before the patch you would drop all aggro no matter what after fding and could be hit by any spell resisted or not resisted and fd wouldn't break.

After that patch, we have the current fd mechanics along with fd breaking if you get cast on after you flop no matter what, so that is when the change happened.

But yeah I think breaking when resisted is not correct atm.

This talks about a patch that occurred in 2005 that made FD break even if the spell
was resisted, which means before this patch FD did not break if you resisted the spell.

http://eqnecro.info/board/viewtopic.php?printertopic=1&t=1566&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&finish_rel=-10000

But ^^ after reading all of that link seems they arent even actually sure, gonna have to dig some more....

Aaradin
The A-Team
one the of the main reasons of this was than without los a npc will not cast on you so a monk necro sk used corners and such for fd.

a prime example of this where tov chains of fders suauly every fder was in some corner waitin for fd so his aprtner in the spot could tag and run to the raid.

Later in game luclin and new changes in fd mechanic like after 2 mins warning mob xxx has forgotten you and the aas to fd succesfull work if u hit by a spell.


anyways ehre is a link to fd skill explained as far back as 2000


http://web.archive.org/web/20001218045800/http://eq.castersrealm.com/editorials/feign_death.asp

[Arteker]

alot of people seems o forget , one of the main reasons monks carried alot of resist junk while pulling was .

naturala vodiance splittin meles was not much of a trouble, but ,,,,, casters would nuke you, would snare you, would root you, would dot you ,,,,,,,

so they needed time to survive agaisnt casters and find their time for fd.

> November 16th, 4:30pm
> ---------------------
>
> Feign Death was recently changed by the Tuning Team to reflect evolving
> gameplay issues. Since two of the three classes that get Feign Death get
it
> through spells, I thought this might be a good place to explain the
changes.
>
> Previously, when you used Feign Death (and assuming you cast the spell
> successfully or, in the case of the Monk, made your skill roll) hostile
> monsters would decided that you were dead and wander off. When you later
> got up, they would still remember that they were angry with you. If you
> were within sight, they would immediately come after you. If not, they
> would come after you at some later point. This might happen within a few
> minutes, or could happen even a few hours later. The only way to be
> absolutely sure that a monster had forgotten about you was to zone.
>
> With our new changes, about a third of the time that you successfully
Feign
> Death, the monster will immediately forget about you, similar to an
> Enchanter casting Memory Blur. If they do NOT forget about you, they will
> immediately come after you when you stand up. No more monsters coming
back
> at irregular amounts of time - it should be immediate or not at all.
>
> This is a change - the old way, if you Feigned Death a SINGLE TIME, the
> monster would ALWAYS remember you. This way, they remember you about
> two-thirds of the time.
>
> Using the old Feign Death, you could Feign Death multiple times to try to
> confuse the monster. After about seven or eight times doing this, most
> monsters would eventually forget they were mad at you.
>
> With the new Feign Death, if you Feign Death once the monster has about a
65
> percent chance of remembering you. Twice and the monster has about a 50
> percent chance of remembering you. Four times means about 20 percent, and
> six times means about 8 percent. This is very similar to the old Feign
> Death.
>
> Another addition to the new Feign Death involves a monster "going home."
> When you Feign Death, most monsters will return to where they were before
> the fight. If a monster returns to its initial location, it will
> immediately forget about you greater then 90 percent of the time.
> Therefore, if you Feign Death and stay down long enough for a monster to
"go
> home," you should be safe when you stand up a majority of the time. If
the
> monster IS still mad at you, it will return immediately, rather then
> wandering back later at some irregular interval.
>
>
> *FEIGN DEATH UPDATE*
>
> After further testing and watching these changes on the Live verses the
Test
> Server, we will bechanging Feign Death again on the next patch.
>
> New changes will make it so that if the creature is less than level 35,
the
> monster will always forget about you. If the creature greater then level
35,
> then the monster will use the changes detailed above.
>
> - The EverQuest Team


that was first official explanation of how FD worked.

[Potus]

The Under/Above 35 level rule also impacted memory wipes on Mesmerize and Screaming Terror.

[Arteker]

If I remember correctly, this all happened with the patch that brought FD to working how it does now, with merbs remembering you once you stand up without sneak on.

Before the patch you would drop all aggro no matter what after fding and could be hit by any spell resisted or not resisted and fd wouldn't break.

After that patch, we have the current fd mechanics along with fd breaking if you get cast on after you flop no matter what, so that is when the change happened.

But yeah I think breaking when resisted is not correct atm.

This talks about a patch that occurred in 2005 that made FD break even if the spell
was resisted, which means before this patch FD did not break if you resisted the spell.

http://eqnecro.info/board/viewtopic.php?printertopic=1&t=1566&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&finish_rel=-10000

But ^^ after reading all of that link seems they arent even actually sure, gonna have to dig some more....

Aaradin
The A-Team

probably low lvl necros , if u still fd and a spell broke ur fd but mob is low lvl it will still wiped u from agro, just tested in game and works aswell.

[Arteker]

what i wonder is when they will implement the fd time limit

[freez]

I noticed if you see a mob casting on you, you fd by accident before the spell lands sometimes you can stand back up before it lands and receive no agro if it is resisted.

[Arteker]

I noticed if you see a mob casting on you, you fd by accident before the spell lands sometimes you can stand back up before it lands and receive no agro if it is resisted.

low lvl mobs pherhaps? i notice it happening with lvl 35 and lower mobs such most gobos casters in sol a perma

[CodyF86]

probably low lvl necros , if u still fd and a spell broke ur fd but mob is low lvl it will still wiped u from agro, just tested in game and works aswell.

I was talking about how it acted on a live server not on p99; I know all too well
how FD works on p99, and was only talking about a resisted spell breaking or not
breaking FD on live.

If a mob casts an unresisted spell on you and it doesn't break FD regardless
of lvl, then that's a bug, but getting FD to work 100% correctly has always been
a mysterious art on emulated servers.

Actually I can't remember if dispels are still considered beneficial spells on p99,
if they are and a mob dispelled you, it might not break FD.

After lvl 40 you can forget about roamers ever forgetting you except for 1/100,
but you can use a stalking probe and sneak when you stand back up to pull
and split casters without them ever having line of sight on you in the first place to
even cast once.

Aaradin
The A-Team

[Arteker]

I was talking about how it acted on a live server not on p99; I know all too well
how FD works on p99, and was only talking about a resisted spell breaking or not
breaking FD on live.

If a mob casts an unresisted spell on you and it doesn't break FD regardless
of lvl, then that's a bug, but getting FD to work 100% correctly has always been
a mysterious art on emulated servers.

Actually I can't remember if dispels are still considered beneficial spells on p99,
if they are and a mob dispelled you, it might not break FD.

After lvl 40 you can forget about roamers ever forgetting you except for 1/100,
but you can use a stalking probe and sneak when you stand back up to pull
and split casters without them ever having line of sight on you in the first place to
even cast once.

Aaradin
The A-Team

again wich period, and can u prove it? even ur link there is people saying than a any spell would break fd.

There was even aas for people being hited by spells and givin them a chance to fd works.

[CodyF86]

again wich period, and can u prove it? even ur link there is people saying than a any spell would break fd.

There was even aas for people being hited by spells and givin them a chance to fd works.

Yes once aa's were introduced. I wasn't trying to prove anything, merely trying
to discuss it.

Aaradin
The A-Team

[Arteker]

Yes once aa's were introduced. I wasn't trying to prove anything, merely trying
to discuss it.

Aaradin
The A-Team

well alot of people puttin memmorys but no real dates to back up, and there is realy alot of missinformation about the real skill.


what im 100% sure is dispell did break ur FD( i have seen many monks pulling in velious die to a single dispell followed of multiple aoes).

one of the ugue reasons innate run 3 was so important for monk/sks/necros was the ability to run ahead of the mob find a way to break los and FD.

whats he trouble? in eq for some time caster mobs where broken and wouldnt cut the spell cast when u oor or no in los , usualy those spells would hit you but always bee resisted . and would not break FD skill or spell.


it was changed and patched, so regardin FD i recall Stonewall aas being a must have for monks wich wanted to pull caster mobs.

[Xadion]

Glad you are finding some evidence andro, as how FD is now on p99 is not how it was on live, nor is HT - but even with patch notes HT remains unchanged- I belive FD is how they want it for p99, not necesaraly classic... you will have to fight the typical trio of of the bug forums to get any changes.

[baalzy]

From this thread:http://www.necrotalk.com/showthread.php?t=2452
2004


When you FD a snared mob will stand around and not return to it's spawn point, or back to it's roaming path.

If you have to split 2 mobs, then you Snare one, and both will come. When you FD,they'll stop and after a minute they'll try to return to their starting point. But, if one is snared it will stand there.

When FD refreshes, or the unsnared mob gets far enough away, stand up. If FD cleared aggro then on the next tick of your Snare(which is a Dot) you'll get aggro again and pull the mob.

If you haven't cleared aggro on the first pull then perhaps both will come. Pull back further and then FD again and repeat. If it's a long pull and you have trouble clearing aggro you might want to resnare so that the mobyour pulling doesn't wander back.


http://www.dzert.com/downloads/eq/fd02.swf
Found this funny animation posted in 2005 in this thread:
http://necrotalk.com/showthread.php?p=38487&highlight=fd02.swf#post38487

[Haynar]

I know how FD will work when I am done. It will be as close to how classic was, as i can get it.

Working on it.

Haynar

[Asap]

I know how FD will work when I am done. It will be as close to how classic was, as i can get it.

Working on it.

Haynar

Ty H

[Haynar]

I even plan to fix snare and fd splitting. Dots and reaggo. Spells and breaking fd. And snare + fear to have viable fear kiting.

[baalzy]

I even plan to fix snare and fd splitting. Dots and reaggo. Spells and breaking fd. And snare + fear to have viable fear kiting.

pras.

Though I wasn't aware fear kiting was broken? :X

[Haynar]

pras.

Though I wasn't aware fear kiting was broken? :X
Mob speeds while snared and/or feared have always been off on emu servers.

I fear kited from level 30 to 50 on my sk, beating on them as i ran behind. Mob speeds on emu always seemed off.

Haynar

[Asap]

Mob speeds while snared and/or feared have always been off on emu servers.

I fear kited from level 30 to 50 on my sk, beating on them as i ran behind. Mob speeds on emu always seemed off.

Haynar

Too slow or too fast?