Solutions to the Tunnel Trainer.

[Emoqq]

Yes. You know what im talking about.

Rinna Lightshadow kills _inserttraintrollhere_.
Rinna Lightshadow punches YOU for 183 points of damage.
Rinna Lightshadow punches YOU for 93 points of damage.
Rinna Lightshadow punches YOU for 93 points of damage.
Your tunnel alt / char etc has been slain.
LOADING PLEASE WAIT....

Well, this is of course, almost a many time daily occurrence anymore. The number of corpses in the tunnel is almost outnumbering the players at peak. This has got to stop.

Problem #1 - The person doing it cant be stopped.

Whoever is doing this, is knowledgeable about circumventing bans. I wont explain how this is done, but it is possible. It takes a person a lot of extra time to set it up, but the person doing this does not seem to mind.

Problem #2 - The NPC being trained is virtually unkillable by players.

She hits for very high damage. She has a ton of hit points. Ive tried fighting her, but its pointless. Shes level 61, so deep red she resists almost every spell, and melee rarely hits her on swings.

Solution #1 - Tunnel Bouncers.

Put a pair of level 60 NPC Guards with a hundred thousand hit points, which hit for 500+ at the entrance of the tunnel. Make them agro ANY NPC. This way, if anyone trains anything, they simply kill it. Fixes the problem in way which doesn't require any more GM attention, and is something the perpetrator cannot circumvent.

Solution #2 - Give high end Commons NPC's summon.

They wanna agro and try to train? Well, not anymore they dont. Also something that can not be circumvented, and which will end any more GM requirements of time, etc.

Solution #3 - Remove the high end Commons NPC's agro to evil table.

Why not? People cant go kill them anyways. They're would be no advantages gained by this, if anything they could be set to dubious so they wont trade or offer training etc. "I wont deal with your kind." This also would end any further need of GM involvement, as well as provide a way the trainer cant stop.

If anyone else has any suggestions, please, feel free to comment. I would like to further add that, yes, these are non-classic solutions, but it also a unique, non-classic problem. The trainer is doing something which could NOT be done in classic, unless well, they were wealthy enough to buy hundred of copys of EQ? See what I mean? So, a non-classic solution must be found to deal with this non-classic issue.

[Allizia]

Solution #1 - Tunnel Bouncers.

Put a pair of level 60 NPC Guards with a hundred thousand hit points, which hit for 500+ at the entrance of the tunnel. Make them agro ANY NPC. This way, if anyone trains anything, they simply kill it. Fixes the problem in way which doesn't require any more GM attention, and is something the perpetrator cannot circumvent.

===========
Tunnel Bouncer kills _inserttraintrollhere_.
Tunnel Bouncer punches YOU for 500 points of damage.
Tunnel Bouncer punches YOU for 500 points of damage.
Tunnel Bouncer punches YOU for 500 points of damage.
Your tunnel alt / char etc has been slain.
===========

Solution #2 - Give high end Commons NPC's summon.

They wanna agro and try to train? Well, not anymore they dont. Also something that can not be circumvented, and which will end any more GM requirements of time, etc.

===========
Mobs should only summon when they are damaged past like 97%, won't fix anything
===========

Solution #3 - Remove the high end Commons NPC's agro to evil table.

Why not? People cant go kill them anyways. They're would be no advantages gained by this, if anything they could be set to dubious so they wont trade or offer training etc. "I wont deal with your kind." This also would end any further need of GM involvement, as well as provide a way the trainer cant stop.

========
You are probably getting chain agro through buffs etc, this won't matter
=========



My solution:

Give them snare/stun with high priority and an increased cast range/speed

[Emoqq]

Well it would be easy to make an NPC who wont hurt players. You could also set something to summon even at 100% hitpoints, and no, the way this person is training, its not buffing people that causes it, Maybe for some, but any evil race / etc is killed simply for being there. The trainer is targeting them specifically, running up to them, and waiting for the NPC to get kill them right there. After they die, the NPC kills the evil player.

[Allizia]

There are ways to get people on an NPC's agro list

Summoning is a hard coded special attack (S) and a change to this would extend to all summoning mobs incorrectly unless they added code specifically for this NPC, which would be a waste of time and have it's own side effects

Adding unique mobs or non classic abilities would probably cause tons of drama, snare is somewhat inline

[Waedawen]

So not classic.

[Dukat]

Should increase the exp rate a few points to compensate for the training.

[Fromage]

Make them as soon as you attack them, you're flagged an NPC and fair game for killing. Won't stop the training, but might make you feel better before you die.

[iamjack]

give them sow + run speed?

and also

http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/dmr/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/23-number-outline.jpg

[Loftus]

I don't recall this ever being changed in classic.

Maybe don't go AFK or pay attention while sitting there?

[Bubbles]

Easiest Solution:

Move trade zone to NFP, since everyone is on a f*cking level 5 alt in the FIRST PLACE there's no need to whine about the "I need evil banking" argument.

Ta da.

[Omnimorph]

This is a problem, I'd be fine with any of the above solutions. Perma rooting Rinna would do the same thing. Then it would just be slate who would be the problem. Which is something players can deal with.

[Allizia]

Snare for Rinna and Stun for Slate =P Wouldn't stop anyone who wanted to kil them legit, but would make them much harder to train around as a low level char

[Shaniq]

Make Rinna a Lvl1.

[Bubbles]

Can we make Rinna Death Touch? :)

[spoolie]

whats with the carebare attitude. slate to tunnel was the norm on live. Deal with it and don't afk so close to the entrance. go sit near shady or something.

[Eyry]

Can we just move the Bazaar to GFay?

[Lucrio40]

whats with the carebare attitude. slate to tunnel was the norm on live. Deal with it and don't afk so close to the entrance. go sit near shady or something.

The issue isn't that this didn't happen on live. On live, if you were a serial trainer on a non pvp server, You could be banned. Unlike here, getting banned on live meant you had to buy another CD key and completely reactivate another account. Unless you didn't care to lose money, people typically tried to avoid a ban.

Here on the other hand, the player in question can merely bypass the ban through whatever means, and continue to grief and train people even if they are banned. That is something that is and was not the norm on live.

[Messianic]

Snare for Rinna and Stun for Slate =P Wouldn't stop anyone who wanted to kil them legit, but would make them much harder to train around as a low level char

I like this.

[Kinamur1999]

whats with the carebare attitude. slate to tunnel was the norm on live. Deal with it and don't afk so close to the entrance. go sit near shady or something.

People that don't die almost everyday to this bullshit need to stfu

It doesn't matter where you sit, if you are in the tunnel at all you'll get trained. People have figured out how to warp rinna before and I'm sure they'll do it again. Yep I was standing by shady, paying attention, when a gnome chick walks up to me, stops for a second and WHAM rinna drops on her head and one shots her and promptly goes at beating me.

Anyway I digress, theres NOTHING a person can do besides stay the fuck out of tunnel. People will never stop unless rinna changed, ever, they did it 10 years ago and big fucking surprise they are still doing it today.

[Harmonicdeth]

I agree to the idea of NFP...that is how it was in Veeshan from release.

If you were evil you were in the sewers, I do remember people training guards to them but you had the chance to either run out of the sewer to the zone, which was really close, or you beat the guard since they weren't that high of level.


Also, to whoever said something about the banning process and having to get another key versus opening a proxy...that is truth

[Lusst]

Can we just move the Bazaar to GFay?

The bazaar was in GFay back when I was playing on Xegony years ago. When I moved to 7th Hammer, it was in EC, which actually made more sense because it's a neutral site.

Plus, falling off of elevators sucks.

[Harmonicdeth]

Currently Kayfabe is training Rhinna to the tunnel, poor Pook.

[Aeolwind]

I may have an idea...Let me check with Bum & Mixxit....

[Lusst]

I may have an idea...Let me check with Bum & Mixxit....

If you're thinking "hot air balloons and mullets", I'm all for it. I just have to warn you that sometimes these things can get out of hand.

[Allizia]

I may have an idea...Let me check with Bum & Mixxit....

I hope it involves piranha pets...


<a target='_blank' title='ImageShack - Image And Video Hosting' href='http://img189.imageshack.us/i/eq000344.png/'><img src='http://a.imageshack.us/img189/7439/eq000344.png' border='0'/></a>

Uploaded with <a target='_blank' href='http://imageshack.us'>ImageShack.us</a>

[Lusst]

Hopefully, either Piranha pets, or french bulldog puppies:

http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg474/xLusstx/pups5weeks018.jpg

Either way, I think we're going to be all right.

[Allizia]

OR make her spawn dragons!

<a target='_blank' title='ImageShack - Image And Video Hosting' href='http://img267.imageshack.us/i/eq000337.png/'><img src='http://a.imageshack.us/img267/3566/eq000337.png' border='0'/></a>

Uploaded with <a target='_blank' href='http://imageshack.us'>ImageShack.us</a>

[Overcast]

Can't you just make her indifferent to everyone? Is there any 'needed' faction for her?

That might solve a lot - then the only agro she'd have on anyone is what they bring on themselves.

[zeval31]

^^
wtf ?


EDIT : that was meant for the screenshots

[mmiles8]

This may not be the best solution, but I managed to time zoning out just so that I stuck Rinna in the orc camp on the very edge of WC. So any level 1 is going to have a big game of frogger, and some dotting/nuking/rooting orcs to hamper their training attempt.

[Messianic]

This may not be the best solution, but I managed to time zoning out just so that I stuck Rinna in the orc camp on the very edge of WC. So any level 1 is going to have a big game of frogger, and some dotting/nuking/rooting orcs to hamper their training attempt.

Nicely done, sir...

[Harmonicdeth]

Nicely done, sir...

Sadly Kayfabe figured out how to get her out, she was killing Pook again.

[Swiftsong_Lorekeeper]

I recommend bringing a werewolf

http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae152/cassidjc/EQ/EQ000007.jpg

to bash their fucking skulls in for performing random acts of complete noobishness and to cure their hurting va.....

This server is awesome but I have never seen a collection of such immature people in my life. I can pretty much safely assume that most people here are at least 17 or older which I would think if you were not a complete retard you should know how to act whether it be in RL or a virtual world. Why is it so hard to act like a normal human being and not like you are retarded and incompetent, got raped and thrown in the middle of the desert with no water for a week which drove you mad, and then on top of that someone killed your dog and burned down your house? People need to pull their heads out of their asses and quit making something miserable for everybody just because they don't like it. In RL if you walk into a restaurant and try their food and you don't like it you inform the management if there was a real issue with it and then you don't eat there anymore. How hard is it?

[Allizia]

Haha <3

You have slain Noob!

[Lazortag]

If the EC tunnel is too dangerous because of trainers, why not just relocate elsewhere?

[Toony]

I recommend bringing a werewolf

to bash their fucking skulls in for performing random acts of complete noobishness and to cure their hurting va.....

This server is awesome but I have never seen a collection of such immature people in my life. I can pretty much safely assume that most people here are at least 17 or older which I would think if you were not a complete retard you should know how to act whether it be in RL or a virtual world. Why is it so hard to act like a normal human being and not like you are retarded and incompetent, got raped and thrown in the middle of the desert with no water for a week which drove you mad, and then on top of that someone killed your dog and burned down your house? People need to pull their heads out of their asses and quit making something miserable for everybody just because they don't like it. In RL if you walk into a restaurant and try their food and you don't like it you inform the management if there was a real issue with it and then you don't eat there anymore. How hard is it?

Added to friends list

[Phelp]

Should at least unload your MQ2 before you take screen shots. Specially being an officer in your guild.

[Allizia]

Should at least unload your MQ2 before you take screen shots. Specially being an officer in your guild.

If it wasn't completely obvious that these were not from P99 I'll break it down...

These screenshots are not from P99

[Phelp]

If it wasn't completely obvious that these were not from P99 I'll break it down...

These screenshots are not from P99

The odds you turn your MQ2 off for P99 but use on other servers are slim.

[Overcast]

If the EC tunnel is too dangerous because of trainers, why not just relocate elsewhere?

Because those who have too hard of a time playing the game and feel the need to train others would just move too.

When I hang out in EC, if I'm doing auctions, I don't really hang around the tunnel much. I'll go off to the side, hang near a zone line or whatever. Nek's a good zone line, it's close to the EC tunnel as well.

The FP zone line or N Ro - equal as well.

As we know they train, keep a mentality with this in mind. Don't go AFK near the tunnel - look at 'AFK' as 'A Free Kill' - that's the way we all looked at it on the Zek servers. I know even so, you can end up trained, even if they fix one issue with training - I'm sure another will arise.

If these people training put *half* the effort into playing the game as they do training, they might actually get somewhere. But I guess someone KS'ed their orc camp in EC and now they are all pissed off.

But if you keep vigilant, don't go AFK in areas where you might be at risk - you should be ok 95% of the time. A train here or there - intentional or otherwise, is just got to be expected.

People can train me, that's fine - I'll just pick up and go on, content in the fact that my life is not so full of fail that I need to train people to entertain myself, lol.

[Aadill]

Overcast is smart.

Honestly if you are getting trained because you are collecting in a single area, disperse. The market zone is EC. The trading areas are wherever you want to meet in EC or NFP or Neriak or wherever else you feel inclined to go.

[Allizia]

The odds you turn your MQ2 off for P99 but use on other servers are slim.

Those that know me know I never used it on 99 and I don't even play there anymore, so come to whatever conclusions you want ^.^ It's a Dev/boxing tool for the most part

[Aarone]

Overcast shows much wisdom. Must be because of the Power Armor ;)

[Overcast]

Overcast shows much wisdom. Must be because of the Power Armor ;)

hehe

[Kinamur1999]

If the EC tunnel is too dangerous because of trainers, why not just relocate elsewhere?

I'm bound across the zone far away from all that bullshit, but that doesn't change the fact when I've found something to buy/sell people in the tunnel don't want to run across the zone, so I STILL have to go inside the tunnel.

There's no solution other than dev intervention

[Jeice]

You could always do what we did in classic and expected a train... No need to do anything about this. It's part of the game.

[Overcast]

You could always do what we did in classic and expected a train... No need to do anything about this. It's part of the game.

Exactly!

Even if the number of trainers here tripled - it would still be 70% less idiocy than WoW has, lol


Here's the brilliant thing about EQ - as compared to other MMOs.
Other MMO's don't require much patience, persistence, or tenacity - EQ requires a LOT. It challenges you in ways that 'easy' MMOs won't.

Take it in stride - heck, people doing stupid crap - training you, etc, etc - kill stealing - has MORE THAN ONCE in this game built lasting relationships between those seemingly on the 'short end of the stick'. Heck it's even resulted in lasting guild alliances.

Just dealing with various situations EQ will toss as you, can build friendships, patience, and persistence. I had a long-time friend on EQLive - we just ended up in a PUG - ended up dealing with some idiots - and then hung out for quite some time in game - because of that 'bad' situation.

See - sometimes - on the surface when a situation looks 'bad' - you need to LOOK DEEPER, many people miss the opportunity it presents.

Often - just your own viewpoint can trump just about anything life tosses at you.

[Overcast]

To sum that up: a person's character is not ever built by convenience and complacency - it's built with strife and challenge.

We wanted a challenge - we got it ;)

[Elissa]

For those of you saying "Don't change it!" a few things are obvious:

1. You are not dying to this every day.

2. You forget that on Live serial-training was a bannable offense.

3. You misunderstand the concept of "wanting EQ to be hard." The game should be and is hard for various reasons, but scrubs training you repeatedly, on purpose, should not be one of them. I have no problem with accidents, noobs not calling a train, etc. I do have a significant problem with momentarily going AFK to pull boiling water off the stove, for example, and coming back dead and then grudgingly paying for a rez only to find myself getting killed again the MOMENT I rez. That's not "hard," that's retarded.

EC is and should continue to be one of the more enjoyable aspects of the game. However, that does not include scrubs purposely training Rinna/Slate repeatedly with impunity.

[askme19k]

Knock her down to Lv51 until Kunark comes out.

[Messianic]

1. You are not dying to this every day.

Maybe because they figured out a way to avoid it. Go ahead, argue "there's no way to avoid being killed by people training NPCs."

2. You forget that on Live serial-training was a bannable offense.

Sure, and it was enforced with the same lackluster they enforced many other things. It's true that your CD Key was tied to your account, but without data on how often and how many people they actually banned, it's difficult to say if this is a valid point.

3. You misunderstand the concept of "wanting EQ to be hard." The game should be and is hard for various reasons, but scrubs training you repeatedly, on purpose, should not be one of them. I have no problem with accidents, noobs not calling a train, etc. I do have a significant problem with momentarily going AFK to pull boiling water off the stove, for example, and coming back dead and then grudgingly paying for a rez only to find myself getting killed again the MOMENT I rez. That's not "hard," that's retarded.

No, it's hard. When dealing with individuals, you have to remember that there are really only two things to consider - what a man can't do, and what a man can do. They can train you. Therefore, you need to utilize your "can" and figure out a way to avoid it. I frequently see evil-types hiding in corners, being more alert than others, FD'ing off to the side (if they're necro/sk), or only visiting the EC Tunnel when they have a sale to make, not sitting there for hours on end like dodos. Human/goodie alts are fine for that.

My question is this - why are you at the EC Tunnel? How long do you stay there? Why do other evil people who actually sit at the EC tunnel for long periods of time (who aren't necros or SKs) apparently find ways to deal with it which are somehow impossible for you?

EC is and should continue to be one of the more enjoyable aspects of the game. However, that does not include scrubs purposely training Rinna/Slate repeatedly with impunity.

And it's not too hard to figure out a way to deal with it. You'll just have to do that.

If the GM's nerf Slate/Rinna or something similar which negates the problem, great - but at least until then, you should try to cope (which you claim is impossible).

[mistersuits]

My question is this - why are you at the EC Tunnel? How long do you stay there? Why do other evil people who actually sit at the EC tunnel for long periods of time (who aren't necros or SKs) apparently find ways to deal with it which are somehow impossible for you?

They're probably in EC Tunnel because that's explicitly what the GMs wanted when they disabled global chat channels... i.e. a community to bloom out of the necessity for trade? Seems like if you're going to force your playerbase somewhere these kinds of training exploits should be sorted out.

[Ihealyou]

They're probably in EC Tunnel because that's explicitly what the GMs wanted ...

Yes, you're right where they want you. Muhahahaha

[Messianic]

They're probably in EC Tunnel because that's explicitly what the GMs wanted when they disabled global chat channels... i.e. a community to bloom out of the necessity for trade? Seems like if you're going to force your playerbase somewhere these kinds of training exploits should be sorted out.

#1) The GM's forced people into the EC Tunnel? Quoting Nilbog, 5-23-10:

Whether the East Commonlands tunnel re-emerges as the dominate social area or another location, you should have the opportunity to forge your own community.

They want community, not necessarily EC. Saying "YOU HAVE TO PROTECT EC BECAUSE IT'S OUR COMMUNITY" is what it is - an appeal to the gods. If they leave you to fend for yourself, don't be surprised.

#2) Training "exploits"? I don't think this describes it accurately enough. It is stupid, but it's a legitimate game mechanic, not something like duping, where it's actually a malfunction within the structure of the game.

[Elissa]

My question is this - why are you at the EC Tunnel? How long do you stay there? Why do other evil people who actually sit at the EC tunnel for long periods of time (who aren't necros or SKs) apparently find ways to deal with it which are somehow impossible for you?

And it's not too hard to figure out a way to deal with it. You'll just have to do that.

If the GM's nerf Slate/Rinna or something similar which negates the problem, great - but at least until then, you should try to cope (which you claim is impossible).

First, I don't recall saying anything is "impossible." Don't put words in my mouth.

Second, I'm in the EC tunnel for the same reason 99% of other people are there: make sales, be social, find an item i've been looking for... basically, relax after a night of exping or doing whatever i was doing elsewhere. That's how it was on live, and that's how it's been here, except for the last few days. I'm sorry I don't have amazing items that I get 100 tells for the moment I auction. It typically takes time and repeated efforts for me to sell what I'm selling, or find the items i'm interested in buying for the prices I can afford. Even so, i've never sat there for "hours." Again, read my post, I looked away for 30 seconds, and it happened -- and then again, the moment after I had just paid for a rez. Sure, I could go sit in some random location in the zone and only show up to make a sale/buy, but that's hardly social (and it could happen then too). Besides, most of my communication with other players in the zone is by /say.

My question for you is: What is your big issue with people, such as myself, not wanting to deal with folks who purposely and repeatedly train, for no other reason than to be malicious assholes? Are you the one doing it? If not, then why do you care that anyone else is upset about it happening? Do you truly believe the server is a better place where pointless purposeful training is rampant? And that anyone who complains about such rampant training should just "deal with it" and "cope?"

I am "coping" just fine, thank you. Posting about an issue that annoys you does not evidence an inability to "cope."

[Messianic]

The dominant social area should be Ak'anon. That way, training would be a way for the trolls and ogres to get their daily protein.

Just saying.

[nilbog]

However, that does not include scrubs purposely training Rinna/Slate repeatedly with impunity.

Just so this is clear. They do not have impunity. People get suspended then banned. If you are referring to people recreating accounts from various IP addresses, they are banned the same way.. the difference here is that they don't have to go buy a new account key.

They are NOT immune from punishment.

[Elissa]

Just so this is clear. They do not have impunity. People get suspended then banned. If you are referring to people recreating accounts from various IP addresses, they are banned the same way.. the difference here is that they don't have to go buy a new account key.

They are NOT immune from punishment.

I was already quite clear on this point. Thus my use of the word "impunity." Because thats what it is when you can just re-create a new account and keep doing what you've been doing.

[Emoqq]

Aeolwind, thanks for looking into this. This really has become a major problem for many players lately, esp with the recent changes to corpse timers.

The sheer amount of people posting here in support of the trainer is just boggling to me.

To those of you saying you should be able to avoid it? There are many circumstances when this simply isn't possible, when your trading alt / char happens to have a good deal loot to sell and or money to buy with, etc, your encumbered and cant move out of the way. Sure, the NPC's don't kill everyone, usually what happens is it kills one or two people, then disappears, bugs out, etc, only to be trained again. Also a number of us can feign dead, or gate, etc, but to those who might be alt tabbed out, or something else, esp if the trainer specifically targets them, then there's little they can do. Even those of us who feign dead will likely die if our feign fails. Leaving the tunnel is also a pointless event. Its where the group entity is doing its business. To anyone who says to "move elsewhere", im sorry, but none of us can move 1,000+ people.

This is griefing, pure and simple, there is no motive beyond pure schadenfreude. This person doesn't give a shit what any of you think. If you've somehow been swayed to his thinking its just a further check mark in his book of lulz.


Edit: Removed a little of the vitriol. =D
Edit Edit: Nilbog, thanks goto to you too for having to put up with this childishness and try to make things better for us all. Your work really is greatly appreciated, dont let the bastards get you down.

[nilbog]

I was already quite clear on this point. Thus my use of the word "impunity." Because thats what it is when you can just re-create a new account and keep doing what you've been doing.

Oh, well I just disagree with your definition I suppose. Where impunity means freedom, I would consider anonymous training more of a "circumvention, bypass, exploit, sidestep, or skirting of punishment." Not a freedom.

:T We're doing what we can. Continue on with suggestions.

[Elissa]

Oh, well I just disagree with your definition I suppose. Where impunity means freedom, I would consider anonymous training more of a "circumvention, bypass, exploit, sidestep, or skirting of punishment." Not a freedom.

:T We're doing what we can. Continue on with suggestions.

I mean if we're just discussing semantics, then I suppose you're technically correct... each "account" is being "punished." But if an individual has unlimited accounts, the individual is really NOT being punished by the banning of one account (or several, as the case may be).

I appreciate anything you're doing, please don't misunderstand.

[Messianic]

I apologize if my reply seemed too snarky - I didn't intend it to be that way. With regard to the content:

First, I don't recall saying anything is "impossible." Don't put words in my mouth.

I didn't put words in your mouth. I showed you where what you were saying was leading, not where you had already gone.

My question for you is: What is your big issue with people, such as myself, not wanting to deal with folks who purposely and repeatedly train, for no other reason than to be malicious assholes?

I don't. But people arguing "GM Intervention is essential" haven't exhausted their options.

Also, you're dealing with a symptom, not the problem. You will have to deal with those folks in some form.

Are you the one doing it?

Why even make this accusation? I'm not defending people who train.

I definitely don't - I play two characters, one of which has never even been to EC. The other has the same name as my forum account.

If not, then why do you care that anyone else is upset about it happening?

I don't care whether you're upset about it at all. I care that some would accept ANY CHANGE, regardless how it screwed with the game experience in other areas, just to stop people from training Rinna. There are worse states that could result from a nerf - as overcast said before, part of the character of this game are little things like this - the few jerks that make the game difficult. Different symptoms of the same problem were just as common in EQLive - you're just focused on this particular aspect of it because it's personally affected you.

Do you truly believe the server is a better place where pointless purposeful training is rampant?

Just sounds like a lot of hyperbole. Dying every day to the same thing doesn't happen to all, or even most of the evils, even those who hang around in EC for extended periods of time.

And that anyone who complains about such rampant training should just "deal with it" and "cope?"

Nope. It's just that anyone who complains about X boogeyman problem and demands GM intervention will likely begin to demand it elsewhere, wherever they "perceive" that a reasonable solution is not available. Sure, GM intervention is often necessary in certain situations. But it seems light to demand it here. I think the game is more fun when we have to fend for ourselves - not defer to the GM when situations seem hard or very hard. That's the kind of game I want to play.

I am "coping" just fine, thank you. Posting about an issue that annoys you does not evidence an inability to "cope."

One of my points was specifically that you are able to cope. Dunno why you make a point of that. I'm genuinely sorry jerks made you lose pp/time. But I still prefer the game as-is over a number of possible "solutions" to the training issue.

[Overcast]

For those of you saying "Don't change it!" a few things are obvious:

1. You are not dying to this every day.

2. You forget that on Live serial-training was a bannable offense.

3. You misunderstand the concept of "wanting EQ to be hard." The game should be and is hard for various reasons, but scrubs training you repeatedly, on purpose, should not be one of them. I have no problem with accidents, noobs not calling a train, etc. I do have a significant problem with momentarily going AFK to pull boiling water off the stove, for example, and coming back dead and then grudgingly paying for a rez only to find myself getting killed again the MOMENT I rez. That's not "hard," that's retarded.

EC is and should continue to be one of the more enjoyable aspects of the game. However, that does not include scrubs purposely training Rinna/Slate repeatedly with impunity.

With my post.. I didn't mean to lessen the problem in anyway. But until a resolution is found or the trainers manage to find some other place to 'get attention' - you may have to adjust what you do.

And just keep optimistic - don't let others screw up your fun.

[Elissa]

. . .

Anyway, I'm not one of the sky-is-falling people. Yes, I've been personally affected by this and that biases me towards swift action. However, I would never support a change that altered the mechanics of the game overall. I would support a change that somehow corrected only this particular issue. Until then, as always, I'll remain vigilant. But I'm still going to get (rightfully) upset when someone purposely warps Rinna to me in my corner that I'm hiding in. That's just not part of the "classic" game I ever experienced, even for the last 5 months of this one.

[Aadill]

On my server back in live, NFP was the trading spot. Evils in the sewers or behind Jade got trained all the time. They zoned, hid, had good-aligned trading alts, or died. It is much more rampant on this server due to the fact that getting an account banned does not have a permanent punishment. I am not a fan because people still trade all over the zone and it really doesn't make a difference as to what zone you want but people chose EC. Luckily EC is the easiest to deal with -

You want a solution? Permaroot, massive regen, and massive damage to high level NPCs (merchants etc) in EC ala Nexus Scions when Luclin came out. There aren't many NPCs in the zone so you could easily edit that. Sergeant Slate and the rest of the guards is all you will have to deal with because they cannot and should not be rooted. You'll get trained with guards that should be protecting the zone from those that shouldn't be there anyway, but you won't have ridiculous trains.

[Overcast]

I'm assuming they aren't running up - hitting the level 61 NPC and then training.
It's gotta be a range pull, right?

Can you just make her like a 'dragon' - and force Melee range attacks on her?

That or just boot anyone back to the login screen if they are under level 10 and initiate any attack on the NPC's in EC over level 40 or whatever.

Although - really, the perma-root idea... might be best. /shrug

[Aadill]

perma root to prevent training, massive regen to prevent free xp, massive damage isn't necessary but i just added that in there for fun <3 c'mon, surely one of you have pressed auto attack while buying from a merchant

[Supreme]

Take NPC off Evil faction..

Give them unlimited range Death Touch on aggro/attack.

[Aadill]

Take NPC off Evil faction..

Give them unlimited range Death Touch on aggro/attack.

Merchants need to remain factioned. Beyond that, I would assume there's still a chance of creating a chain unless you do some crazy coding with an insta cast DT.

[mmiles8]

She's not a merchant. She's a cleric guildmaster. And not the only one in the area by any means.

[Aadill]

Okay. GMs shouldn't randomly lose factions, either.

Point remains you shouldn't be removing factions from mobs.

[Overcast]

She's not a merchant. She's a cleric guildmaster. And not the only one in the area by any means.

She really... just needs to summon.

Would fix a lot.. heh

[mmiles8]

She does summon, you just have to knock off a couple percent of her ~1 million HP.

And the point that remains is that she's part of no quest, and a cleric guildmaster, with a vast assortment of them littering East and North Freeport. She could be completely removed with no consequence until a solution is decided upon.

[Overcast]

She does summon, you just have to knock off a couple percent of her ~1 million HP.

And the point that remains is that she's part of no quest, and a cleric guildmaster, with a vast assortment of them littering East and North Freeport. She could be completely removed with no consequence until a solution is decided upon.

Can't the summon dynamic be changed to summon upon any agro at all?

Just an idea..

[Aadill]

Technically you could still create a chain, if you're creative enough to do so. Unless summoning mechanics is dictated per mob, that would also be difficult to implement. I don't know how the code works in this game but I would expect a single call to a summon script instead of it being written per mob. If you go about changing it you'd be changing the rest of the game.

[Harmonicdeth]

Haha someone was training her just now... Cryus banned em instantly... When the police see it its a nice fix...

But I vote for the DT and perma root.

[Overcast]

Technically you could still create a chain, if you're creative enough to do so. Unless summoning mechanics is dictated per mob, that would also be difficult to implement. I don't know how the code works in this game but I would expect a single call to a summon script instead of it being written per mob. If you go about changing it you'd be changing the rest of the game.

Yeah, the summoning might be a shared routine - that makes sense, of course.

But making a change to eliminate this issue can't really be said that it's "non-classic" - classic had a mechanic to mostly prevent this type of activity.

A cost to the person doing it - new account, new monthly sub..

As for now in classic - you'd be training yourself in EC, lol

[Tashi]

Resolved

[Messianic]

Anyway, I'm not one of the sky-is-falling people. Yes, I've been personally affected by this and that biases me towards swift action. However, I would never support a change that altered the mechanics of the game overall. I would support a change that somehow corrected only this particular issue. Until then, as always, I'll remain vigilant. But I'm still going to get (rightfully) upset when someone purposely warps Rinna to me in my corner that I'm hiding in. That's just not part of the "classic" game I ever experienced, even for the last 5 months of this one.

Sure - I can entirely agree with everything you said here (with one exception below), and I certainly don't take issue with people getting upset over being trained. It's garbage - it's expected garbage, but it's garbage.

I do think trains are part of classic - even intentional ones. Not that they should be/have to be here strictly for that reason, but my experience was people did it all the time. Not nearly as blatant as they do at the EC tunnel, but it did happen commonly.

I guess in summary I just don't want to cut off the opportunity for a solution to come from the individual player or the player base. Maybe there isn't one. I hope not - I find most rewarding the goal of solving problems which most have deemed unsolvable :)

[Emoqq]

Resolved

Not Resolved. Give him 15 minutes, and he will be back under another name.

[Harmonicdeth]

http://i32.tinypic.com/bhggau.jpg

Now if only that spider was perma!

[Messianic]

After reading all this, removing Rinna from the game entirely doesn't appear to have any negative consequences.

Except removing a guildmaster from a non-city zone which is only two zones away from the same kind of guildmaster ;)

[Arclanz]

speaking of training the tunnel with aggro mobs, why is the EC Griffon not spawning? There was most certainly a griffon in EC and bixie(s) were the placeholder.

[Waedawen]

The amount of brown nosing / ridiculousness going on in this thread is making my head hurt

The Griffin doesn't even spawn in EC any more, and I have never personally died to Rinna and I'm porting and giving out buffs on my druid all the time. If I get smashed in the face by her, I zone, because I'm not sitting there AFK.

It's that easy.

And to all the "hurr durrrrrrr i get killed all the time and it's sapping my xp bawwwwwwwww" -- You can go ahead and get a 250 point hp buff from a cleric, run over to a mage for a DS, run over to a shaman for Stat buffs, and run over to a druid for Regen.

I've watched the same person sitting at the entrance of the tunnel going "can i get a ds plz can I get a ds plz" for 15 minutes one time.

THAT is deplorable.

[Simplistik]

The Griffin doesn't even spawn in EC any more guys, and I have never personally died to Rinna and I'm porting and giving out buffs on my druid all the time. If I get on her hate list, I zone.


Good luck making it to the zone before she kicks the shit outta you ...

[rioisk]

Geezus you guys are a bunch of whiners. I remember trains all the time in EC tunnels. Fond memory in fact. I liked the classic experience - even if it meant I could never be 100% safe ANYWHERE.

If you want a safe trading place - go play WoW - I hear Dalaran is uber safe. So safe in fact the other faction can't even hurt you there.

Has one of my chars been killed in an EC train? You betcha. Do I sit my evil characters at the front of the tunnel anymore? Nope! I enjoy watching the trains sometimes - reminds me that the world is dynamic instead of a yahoo chat room.

[Waedawen]

Good luck making it to the zone before she kicks the shit outta you ...

she doubles me for 183 and kicks for 32.

I have about 60% life if I'm unbuffed with only sow on.

Nice try though.

[Messianic]

The amount of brown nosing / ridiculousness going on in this thread is making my head hurt

The Griffin doesn't even spawn in EC any more, and I have never personally died to Rinna and I'm porting and giving out buffs on my druid all the time. If I get smashed in the face by her, I zone, because I'm not sitting there AFK.

It's that easy.

And to all the "hurr durrrrrrr i get killed all the time and it's sapping my xp bawwwwwwwww" -- You can go ahead and get a 250 point hp buff from a cleric, run over to a mage for a DS, run over to a shaman for Stat buffs, and run over to a druid for Regen.

I've watched the same person sitting at the entrance of the tunnel going "can i get a ds plz can I get a ds plz" for 15 minutes one time.

THAT is deplorable.

This post doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

[Arclanz]

I'm ok with getting rid of her; but bring the Griffon back! Or did ya forget to put it in?

[Waedawen]

This post doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I was going for "it's already watered down to hell and easier than it should be so why make it easier" combined with "just move out of the way" lightly sprinkled with "that's not classic"

[Messianic]

I was going for "it's already watered down to hell and easier than it should be so why make it easier" combined with "just move out of the way"

Oh, ok.

[Jugthug42]

You can't just have it summon. What if a dark elf runs by her and legitimately tries to run away to like the Freeport zoneline?

Honestly she should just be made faction neutral. Sgt Slate isn't as big of a deal, he gets killed easily by 40+ people in the tunnel.

[Messianic]

You can't just have it summon. What if a dark elf runs by her and legitimately tries to run away to like the Freeport zoneline?

Honestly she should just be made faction neutral. Sgt Slate isn't as big of a deal, he gets killed easily by 40+ people in the tunnel.

A dark elf running by her should probably die...Being her mortal enemy and at least 11 levels below her and not insanely overpowered as NPC GMs are...

[rioisk]

http://www.sonofthesouth.net/uncle-sam/images/stop-whining.jpg

[Morlaeth]

should we take out sgt. slate too?

[Messianic]

should we take out sgt. slate too?

No way. He's fun to kill.

[rioisk]

http://www.ssqq.com/travel/images/cake%20and%20eat%20it%20too.jpg

[Arclanz]

oh nm, I guess the griffin is in (based on a forum search). Though I thought it was griffon. Either way, by the time I started here the server was already saturated with lvl 50s and their twinks. Guess the griffin doesn't last long. Vastly different when I started out on live.

[Overcast]

oh nm, I guess the griffin is in (based on a forum search). Though I thought it was griffon. Either way, by the time I started here the server was already saturated with lvl 50s and their twinks. Guess the griffin doesn't last long. Vastly different when I started out on live.

Well depends when you started on Live and what server.

The Griff was up a LOT for me in Classic - but then EC wasn't a trading zone on Vallon Zek - it was a PvP zone, lol.

It wasn't uncommon to see 20+ people hanging out at the Nek zone, just waiting on 'lighties' to wander by.

[Swiftsong_Lorekeeper]

Everybody keeps saying that training is classic. On Solusek Ro server no one trained hardly ever UNLESS they had a legitimate train and were trying to make it to the zone before they died. Obviously if you're sitting at the entrance to Lguk or any zone like that you are retarded and deserve to die. Sitting in the EC tunnel and getting trained is retarded. Why even have a social/trade zone if you cannot use it without worrying about getting killed for NO reason. I personally have not been killed there but that doesn't mean that I think it is ok. Moral of the story is... Get your excuses that trains are classic out of here because you, me, and every other person on this forum knows it's not true (at least not in the context that people use trains here). Sure trains are classic for dungeons or any other zone that mobs are higher level OR if a newb is in EC hunting and trains some spiders or whatever other mobs but an intentional attack and train of an NPC is garbage. If training the EC tunnel was classic for you then I'm sure as hell glad I didn't play on your server. Also before people start whining about saying stuff about a carebear server, that is not what I want. I do however believe that getting trained in the zone you sell in is unnecessary and people that do it have some form of mental retardation and are on the same level as a normal person winning the special olympics and being proud of it.

[Messianic]

Get your excuses that trains are classic out of here because you, me, and every other person on this forum knows it's not true

Based entirely on your own experience, our experience and opinion is wrong. Ok. I never saw those intentional trains. Never.

I do however believe that getting trained in the zone you sell in is unnecessary and people that do it have some form of mental retardation and are on the same level as a normal person winning the special olympics and being proud of it.

Oh come on let's not bring the special olympics into this :P


On a side note, in live, I once saw someone train virtually every Mob in South Ro to the Innothule Zone line. That was friggin hilarious.

[Swiftsong_Lorekeeper]

Based entirely on your own experience, our experience and opinion is wrong. Ok. I never saw those intentional trains. Never.

Oh come on let's not bring the special olympics into this :P

On a side note, in live, I once saw someone train virtually every Mob in South Ro to the Innothule Zone line. That was friggin hilarious.

Well I don't mean that everyones opinion is wrong but I just find it very hard to believe that this actually happened (often) when I played EQ for 5 years and never saw it happen like hardly ever. I have seen my share of intentional trains but usually no one was killed (on purpose). It was normally like you said, someone would gather up an entire zone just for fun and train to a zoneline (which was pretty hilarious to watch people try to do this). Normally that didn't cause a ton of death though to random bystanders :p. And it was also rarely done because of someone that had a sandy va....

[Messianic]

Fair enough :)

[Lusst]

Resolved

http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg474/xLusstx/buseyClap.gif

[nicemace]

smart cookies would go sit by freeport zoneline.

[fuji]

smart cookies would go sit by freeport zoneline.

Exactly or the desert zoneline. You dont need to sit right in the tunnel and keep getting killed. Maybe the OP should do more think-think and less QQ.

[Kinamur1999]

its just to bad that everyone kos has to sit alone at a zoneline because of "classic experience" that doesn't actually affect anyone at all thats claiming the server needs to stay classic and annoying

[RKromwell]

Maybe if the mobs didn't run so freaking fast folks could get away from it...

[Kinamur1999]

Maybe if the mobs didn't run so freaking fast folks could get away from it...

strafe running i can stay out of rinnas melee range, but when i need to make an alignment adjustment shell smack me and after a few of those its to late.

[melfina89]

Uhhhh, maybe before you guys try to argue with Emoqq, you should read his entire post. He makes a very clear and valid point on needing non-classic solutions for a non-classic, serious problem. Plus, it isn't just level 5's. It is people of all levels who happen to be doing things like ooooh, maybe trying to BUY or SELL something, like tends to happen in EC. I saw it all go down for several hours today and I saw plenty of Mains die because of it.

This kind of intentional training is in no way classic. On the rare event that it happened on Inny server, the person was banned. After the banning, it was a very expensive ordeal for them to come back to do it again. This is so very different and probably has no traditional solution.

[rioisk]

Uhhhh, maybe before you guys try to argue with Emoqq, you should read his entire post. He makes a very clear and valid point on needing non-classic solutions for a non-classic, serious problem. Plus, it isn't just level 5's. It is people of all levels who happen to be doing things like ooooh, maybe trying to BUY or SELL something, like tends to happen in EC. I saw it all go down for several hours today and I saw plenty of Mains die because of it.

I enjoy the trains. It never affects me because i don't let my evil characters hang freely there. EC is patrolled by freeport - evil characters are always in danger in their land! Just because we know the pathing of guards doesn't/shouldn't make us safe! Come on, the trains show us how we take the game mechanics for granted and forget the fantasy world we play in.

[melfina89]

What about those not "hanging freely" but are doing trading? Any reason they deserve to die while trying to obtain an item, just because they happen to want to actually use evil races? This is not part of the game. This is some angry person altering the game to suit their wishes.

[rsjr]

I enjoy the trains. It never affects me because i don't let my evil characters hang freely there. EC is patrolled by freeport - evil characters are always in danger in their land! Just because we know the pathing of guards doesn't/shouldn't make us safe! Come on, the trains show us how we take the game mechanics for granted and forget the fantasy world we play in.

Someone is abusing the mechanics of the game to grief other players. How do you construct some sort of roleplaying justification for it. Are you retarded?

[Farlis]

honestly the devs need to find a way to make bans more permenant, fixing ec isnt going to stop their douche baggery simple case is acabab trained upper guk and killed aton of people exping. Fixing ec will be nothing more then a light patch hes going to continue this unless hes stopped at the source

[Malinrol]

This Abacab person did tons of trains. First, there were the guk ones. Then, when they took global away, he trained slate and stuff on tunnel so they would bring it back. Now, he is in a new dude, training a near impossible kill into the tunnel. He is probably a 7 year old little brat wacking off to Pokemon while he waits for Rinna to come back to the hut so he can start again.

Either Rinna needs to be made indifferent or dubious to everyone, or she needs to have a anti-train ability like stun. That way, ogres, trolls, and guys hated by clerics (My SK) dont get griefed.

For those that complain about Slate, he is classic, so leave him alone. But Rinna, who cant even be killed now, needs to be taken care of.

P.S. P99 kills live. So dont post those screens. They fail in comparison to the amazingness of classic EQ lol =]

[Aadill]

What about those not "hanging freely" but are doing trading? Any reason they deserve to die while trying to obtain an item, just because they happen to want to actually use evil races? This is not part of the game. This is some angry person altering the game to suit their wishes.

Wait, what? You enter a zone with KoS NPCs and expect it to always be safe? Yes, the trains are constant, but make a trading alt, don't stand in obviously unsafe places, be more aware. You're KoS for a reason that YOU CHOSE and you don't want to put up with the faction issues? Fixing the non-stop training is one thing but you shouldn't expect to be safe in a zone, ever, if you're KoS to even a SINGLE mob.

[Harmonicdeth]

For those that complain about Slate, he is classic, so leave him alone. But Rinna, who cant even be killed now, needs to be taken care of.

She was killed last night!

[Messianic]

She was killed last night!

By who? I know the GM's despawned her once, but i hadn't heard that she had been killed.

[Harmonicdeth]

Basically Riley and some friends rolled in, saw that she was killing people by Adcanbanoob, A shaman was slowing and keeping her debuffed while the mage pets were attacking. Then it came to be that like 10 or so people were nuking, and hitting her to bring her down. Was fun to watch!
I have screens, but they are at home... I am sure someone will post.

[druziil]

could you put a tether on her, so if she paths too far from the hut her hate list is wiped and she ports back? (don't dragons have similar mechanic but with summoning?) Or make her a more efficient killer, faster then sow speed, non snareable/rootable, train would end before it starts.

Also this is not just a evil race kos issue, they exploit buffs/heals to get people on her hate list as well

[Aadill]

Short of removing her and other NPCs from EC, I submit that making her unkillable and permarooted would be the best bet.

Tethering her could still result in exploitation of killing her in terms of killing for XP.

Removing faction does not fix chain agro due to buff/healing agro. Also it allows dark elves to use her as a guildmaster.

DTs, unless separate scripts from actual DTing mobs, would be screwed up across the board.

Summoning, same as above.

Removing Rinna completely, while not appropriate, would solve the problem of one npc, but assuming there are other high level NPCs that have actual value, this is not a viable option.


By permarooting with massive regen, the mob is unkillable and will not train anyone. This solution will provide only a slight added benefit to KoS folks. If you're kos, you should know to avoid the area anyway, but you get the added bonus of the mob not being able to come after you.


Also: A majority of the server population wanted a single zone in which a bunch of people will collect to trade goods. You got griefers targeting it. I'm all for EC Tunnel/NFP, but everyone in this thread seriously believed trains wouldn't happen? They always did on live. It's nothing new, and it's here to stay. You want it fixed? come up with viable solutions that aren't near sighted.

[toddfx]

Uhhh...really? People are this stupid?

1) Stop leaving your evil race AFK in the tunnel...
2) Wait for trainers to lose incentive and interest...
3) Win.

Seriously. The zone is enormous. Run 15 seconds north to the grass wall and hide out behind a tree something while you're AFK taking your shit or whatever it is that is so important.

And if you are using an EC trader alt, why in gods name would you make it an evil race? Even if you're selling on your evil main, you have no excuse to be bitching - you are sitting in ENEMY TERRITORY. I would never consider even going AFK in Nektolus or Feerrot or something for the plain and simple fact of being in dangerous enemy territory.

Trains happen - who gives a shit if it is on purpose or not. It happened on live, it's going to happen here, and the fact of the matter is that there is no classic way to prevent it.

Forcing GMs to alter the game or waste their time tracking down and kicking/banning people is just selfish. Learn to be self sufficient for god's sake and just sit somewhere else.

[Aandolaf]

Uhhh...really? People are this stupid?

1) Stop leaving your evil race AFK in the tunnel...
2) Wait for trainers to lose incentive and interest...
3) Win.

Seriously. The zone is enormous. Run 15 seconds north to the grass wall and hide out behind a tree something while you're AFK taking your shit or whatever it is that is so important.

And if you are using an EC trader alt, why in gods name would you make it an evil race? Even if you're selling on your evil main, you have no excuse to be bitching - you are sitting in ENEMY TERRITORY. I would never consider even going AFK in Nektolus or Feerrot or something for the plain and simple fact of being in dangerous enemy territory.

Trains happen - who gives a shit if it is on purpose or not. It happened on live, it's going to happen here, and the fact of the matter is that there is no classic way to prevent it.

Forcing GMs to alter the game or waste their time tracking down and kicking/banning people is just selfish. Learn to be self sufficient for god's sake and just sit somewhere else.

He has been doing this for a long while now, doesn't look like he is going to stop soon. He regularly runs through ec looking for evils not in the tunnel. So if you sat out in the grass, or further back in the tunnel, you will still get trained.

[Lucrio40]

If he wanted to target evils, then he needs to have some style.

Like this guy (http://www.notaddicted.com/fansythefamous.php)

But in all honesty, it is amazing to me how much people are basically defending this guy. As I said before, yes trains in EC are classic, but on live servers when these people got banned they lost a CD key that they payed 40-50 bucks for as well as the rest of the month they payed for.

On here, they just make a new account for free in less than 10 minutes and go right back to doing it again. Simply banning these people like was done in classic doesn't work because of that.

[Messianic]

If he wanted to target evils, then he needs to have some style.

Like this guy (http://www.notaddicted.com/fansythefamous.php)

But in all honesty, it is amazing to me how much people are basically defending this guy. As I said before, yes trains in EC are classic, but on live servers when these people got banned they lost a CD key that they payed 40-50 bucks for as well as the rest of the month they payed for.

On here, they just make a new account for free in less than 10 minutes and go right back to doing it again. Simply banning these people like was done in classic doesn't work because of that.

Ok...this is most likely the funniest EQ-related thing i have ever seen. Don't get me wrong, i'd probably be really pissed if I was one of the people getting killed over and over, and I would never have done this myself, but his commentary and all the people /telling him, etc is quite hilarious.

[Elissa]

Uhhh...really? People are this stupid?

1) Stop leaving your evil race AFK in the tunnel...
2) Wait for trainers to lose incentive and interest...
3) Win.

Seriously. The zone is enormous. Run 15 seconds north to the grass wall and hide out behind a tree something while you're AFK taking your shit or whatever it is that is so important.

And if you are using an EC trader alt, why in gods name would you make it an evil race? Even if you're selling on your evil main, you have no excuse to be bitching - you are sitting in ENEMY TERRITORY. I would never consider even going AFK in Nektolus or Feerrot or something for the plain and simple fact of being in dangerous enemy territory.

Trains happen - who gives a shit if it is on purpose or not. It happened on live, it's going to happen here, and the fact of the matter is that there is no classic way to prevent it.

Forcing GMs to alter the game or waste their time tracking down and kicking/banning people is just selfish. Learn to be self sufficient for god's sake and just sit somewhere else.

I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and say it's obvious you haven't read the entire thread. Every "argument," "solution," "I would never do that! Why are you?," and "Deal with it." statements you have provided have been thoroughly addressed in multiple ways.

[Swiftsong_Lorekeeper]

Woo hoo post #128. What were we talking about?

[Messianic]

Woo hoo post #128. What were we talking about?

Cheese.

[Overcast]

Cheese.

With ample Whine.

[Sykem]

With ample Whine.

Obviously.

[Dantes]

Is there a way to just fix faction with Rinna? Hell, if I could do that I would just stand around and be a decoy.

[Itchybottom]

Is there a way to just fix faction with Rinna? Hell, if I could do that I would just stand around and be a decoy.

She's Qeynos factions -- Priests of Life. Gnolls, then gold and bone chips to Lashun Novashine would do it.

[Cribanox]

sit outside tunnel?

[Blingx]

Doable?
Trainer A aggros Guard/Rinna/Merchants.
Trainer A runs to tunnel/random evil aligned character.
Trainer A dies.
Guard/Rinna/Merchants warp back to spawn spots.
Total deaths: 1
Happy Campers: ##

Once hatelist is empty they warp to their huts/spawn spots.
Would prevent collateral damage but still allow the functionality of the guards to aggro onto evil characters that run too close to them.
Just beware who you buff because aggro would transfer that way...

[frefaln]

^ Not only doable, it's been done.

... in EQ2.

I've skimmed most of the posts in this thread and can't stop shaking my head. Presumably hundreds of people were anxious to get into P99 because they were sick of MMOs with safety rails. Now we have this thread where people playing evil toons are complaining because they're having trouble going AFK in a non-evil zone.

[Lazortag]

Uhhh...really? People are this stupid?

1) Stop leaving your evil race AFK in the tunnel...
2) Wait for trainers to lose incentive and interest...
3) Win.

Seriously. The zone is enormous. Run 15 seconds north to the grass wall and hide out behind a tree something while you're AFK taking your shit or whatever it is that is so important.

And if you are using an EC trader alt, why in gods name would you make it an evil race? Even if you're selling on your evil main, you have no excuse to be bitching - you are sitting in ENEMY TERRITORY. I would never consider even going AFK in Nektolus or Feerrot or something for the plain and simple fact of being in dangerous enemy territory.

Trains happen - who gives a shit if it is on purpose or not. It happened on live, it's going to happen here, and the fact of the matter is that there is no classic way to prevent it.

Forcing GMs to alter the game or waste their time tracking down and kicking/banning people is just selfish. Learn to be self sufficient for god's sake and just sit somewhere else.

while I agree with this what this post says regarding AFKers, I still think it's fair for a low level of an evil race to be in the tunnel when not AFK (just doing a trade presumably). By the time you find out Rinna's been trained you might already be dead, or not have enough time to run away.

Also, changing the game un-classically to stop the trainers is just stupid. It's not that big of a problem. Let it go and stop whining.

[Swiftsong_Lorekeeper]

Lol 138 posts on this means it has gone on way too long. Get rid of both mobs and be done with it IMO. Problem solved. People getting trained will quit talking about it and everybody else will eventually get over it. I don't have an evil character but I don't think it's right, at the same time what can you do to someone like that on a free to play server? Obviously the main reason Adacab continues is because it causes the players grief which is pretty much the only way to cause the GM's grief directly (or as close as possible to grief). So another solution would be to quit fueling his rebellion and just quit talking about it. Or the server could change the social/trade zone. Or people could just make good alts. Many solutions that we as the community could do to change this ourselves so maybe it should be acted upon.

Note: I agree it shouldn't have to be this way but what do you think McDonalds was thinking when they had to put "Caution: contents may be hot" on a coffee cup?

[Kowie]

^ Not only doable, it's been done.

... in EQ2.

I've skimmed most of the posts in this thread and can't stop shaking my head. Presumably hundreds of people were anxious to get into P99 because they were sick of MMOs with safety rails. Now we have this thread where people playing evil toons are complaining because they're having trouble going AFK in a non-evil zone.

stupid. sorry man. theyre not complaining about going afk in a non evil zone, they are complaining about people using game mechanics to train them.

if you want to play that shit go to a pvp server where you can be a jerk and people can be a jerk back to you. its not fair for someone to make a 1 level char just to kill heaps of people with no chance of repercussions.

[frefaln]

while I agree with this what this post says regarding AFKers, I still think it's fair for a low level of an evil race to be in the tunnel when not AFK (just doing a trade presumably).

By "fair" what are you implying, that they're entitled to it? If so, I don't understand where this sense of entitlement (or "expectation of safety" if you prefer that phrase) comes from? But you know what? For the sake of concession I'll play along and say that, sure, everyone's entitled to bliss once inside that sanctuary known as EC tunnel.

That still leaves us with a glaring issue: people found guilty of training are being absolutely crucified, not just by players but by idiots like Cyrius who need to run around with a cape pretending to be the EC Hero. It's amazing to see people here gasping and shrieking "OMG! What kind of sicko intentionally trains other people!?!?!", all the while calling for permanent bans if not the maiming and torturing of the trainer's parents.

Meanwhile, the ills which are quite capable of destroying the integrity of the server — the duping, the preferential treatment, the Devs/GMs being diligent in punishing one person/guild's sins while conveniently turning a blind eye to others — just don't seem to stir up the same passion. Never mind the fact that some players have only been here 2-3 weeks yet somehow have 1 million plat to spread around their alts. Nope, nothing fishy there. Never mind the fact that threads about Wrathful Inquisition's previous exploits in Shards of Dalaya (emphasis on exploit) appear and then get deleted immediately, despite a P99 Dev being its leader. Nope, nothing to see there. But hey! We MUST babysit the EC tunnel, that's pri1 folks!

Face it, folks. The reason players are complaining about training, and the reason the GMs/Devs are so eager to address it, is because it's low-hanging fruit. It's easy. It's a very visible problem, and it's very evident when the training stops. The GMs pat themselves on the back for a job well done, the players think the world's a happy place. Meanwhile, the real issues will slowly continue to rot things out from the inside.

Oh, I forgot... it's all free so we're all just supposed to shut up and worship the Devs and marvel at how they've modified the code of something which emulated other people's work. Let me go find my prayer rug.

[Walabaego]

Lol every single time im on an alt in EC a Train is inc. Everytime.

[Thorfin]

Can we just move the Bazaar to GFay?
agreee. I don't know how it was back on other Pre-Kunark servers back in the day but GFay was the hub for trading on the Xegony server.

[Ragefart]

Seriously you people and fuckin classic can go and shove it up your ass, or vaginas fer you ladies, it ain't no secret what is classic on this server is nothin like live. It ain't classic, it ain't classic, btw people classic wasn't perfect, hence the progression to improve what classic didn't offer. Basically by not addressing the issue your taking people who you want to play on this thing and letting some asshole named Abacab who got banned for ninja looting, take his little alts and run trains to tunnel. Pure and simple, either its fixed and dealt with or vag, vag, vag...you want classic? How bout the guy in IB with that spiffy dagger from Mayong Mistmoore, that was never classic, hell that was never fuckin' live, but as we all know look at the treatment IB has gotten compared to the other guilds, preferential is the one hair on my scrotum, cuppin the balls treatment is more like it. Its no secret, it just is, either way this guy don't bother me, he cheated, he's trainin, just like the little ddos hacker from 4 months ago. What I really wanna know is did ya' take all the donations and unban him or really get some protection? Heck not a bad way to make a buck if ya ask me...

[nilbog]

cryyyyyyyyy....

lol. Your comment card is weak.

How bout the guy in IB with that spiffy dagger from Mayong Mistmoore, that was never classic, hell that was never fuckin' liveHere is Fanged Skull Stiletto. Read up on it. http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=749

Basically by not addressing the issue your taking people who you want to play on this thing and letting some asshole named Abacab who got banned for ninja looting, take his little alts and run trains to tunnel.Yeah, by having volunteer guides devote countless hours to trying to stop trains and banning accounts and ips.. we aren't addressing it. Anyways, we are working on it.

but as we all know look at the treatment IB has gotten compared to the other guilds, preferential is the one hair on my scrotum, cuppin the balls treatment is more like it.
IB favoritism? I thought it had shifted to something else by now.

just like the little ddos hacker from 4 months ago. What I really wanna know is did ya' take all the donations and unban him or really get some protection? Heck not a bad way to make a buck if ya ask me...Haha no, you ungrateful idiot. We put up with a lot of shit just so thousands of people we don't know can play.

[frefaln]

Yeah, by having volunteer guides devote countless hours to trying to stop trains and banning accounts and ips.. we aren't addressing it.

Nilbog, I hope you don't misread my tone when I say this: if the above statement is true, there are at least two cases where those "countless hours" could've been reduced to a grand total of 10 minutes. I don't know Abacab personally but it sounds like his situation exploded out of a silly IRC dispute. I know that my situation has grown exponentially due to ignored petitions, one of which could've been a potentially serious one with RL implications.

It's not just Abacab that's been training the crap out of EC and the WFP gate — I've been doing it too. Abacab had nothing to do with Peace Pipe, that was my character (Valero) along with Gagg, Frohike, Machoduck, Suleena, Nightshift, and about a dozen other characters. As far as I know Abacab hasn't trained Driana once, but I've been doing it relentlessly and grabbing Rinna whenever Abacab's not around.

I was going to spill into the history of my scenario, but you know what? It won't make a difference. I know how assumptions work around here. Let's see, there was Emoqq's oh-so-eloquent assumption that schadenfreude was the only motivation. There was Cyrius' (and about 95% of everyone else on here) assumption that I was Abacab, or that either one of us are psychotic children living in our parents' basement. All those knee-jerk assumptions add up to one simple truth: the majority can indeed be flat-out wrong, especially on these forums. It was fun watching people insist on what they thought they knew, when in reality they didn't know squat.

Nilbog, you don't need to devote "countless hours" to stopping trains. You need to spend a few minutes slumming it and actually talking to players. Cyrius has "lifetime banned" me roughly 20 times now, and not once did he even bother to ask, "WTF are you thinking?". Nope, it was always "grats on your lifetime ban sucker" or "I feel sorry for you, pathetic" and then insta-blank screen. I promise you, GMs will not curb trains or griefing with that approach. It especially didn't work with me, given the fact that the whole reason I went off in the first place was b/c two important petitions were ignored for days.

In summary: it doesn't matter if P99 is free or $10/mo or -$10/mo. If the devs/GMs disregard the basic tenets of decency with some players, don't be surprised if those players choose to ignore any expectations of decency in return.

Anyways, we are working on it.

I'll throw in my two cents on this, tho you've probably already accounted for it. As far as I know, Abacab's Rinna pulls were the "traditional" train of cast-and-run. My method was different, I almost always rolled necros. I parked the pets at a specific tree where I knew mobs wouldn't roam, then waited at the tunnel for several minutes before /pet attacking her. She'd warp to me after roughly 30 seconds, and more often than not nobody had a clue who was responsible until I chose to be more deliberate about it.

Why the two cents? Because I'm done with the training and ready to return to my real life. Rejoice, people! Now you'll get some peace and I'll walk away defeated. I think the two main positives that have come out of this are:

1) despite what people might think of Abacab or me, we might have at least perked the ears of the Devs long enough to be heard.

2) it's nice to see how players rally around each other when there's a common enemy. Some of you won't understand this but I guarantee you that — even as I was training Rinna for the 37th time — I liked seeing 95% of the zone actually agree on something, even if it was hatred toward me.

Now if only we could agree that duping and two-boxing are worse sins than training, but that's another topic for another day.

[Kowie]

Now if only we could agree that duping and two-boxing are worse sins than training, but that's another topic for another day.


theyre not. they dont hurt people like what you do

at one time i thought you were cool. i kinda sympathized with you for getting perma banned for training one person who was "killing the newbie guards", now i just think you're a cunt.

people come on here to have fun and you think you have a right to harm people who have done nothing against you?

yeah. youre a cunt.

[Allizia]

I blame IB, especially Glitch

[Tseng]

frefaln, you spend far too much time thinking about this

[frefaln]

frefaln, you spend far too much time thinking about this

Heheh, fair enough. But if you think about it, the fact that I waited 15 pages to finally speak up took some restraint on my part.

[Allizia]

Heheh, fair enough. But if you think about it, the fact that I waited 15 pages to finally speak up took some restraint on my part.

I thought about it, but thinking longer I think I realize that you are thinking about thinking to much about this thing.

[nilbog]

frefaln:
If you're upset about unanswered petitions, whatever you chose to do wasn't the right approach. Guides and GMs help people when they can, but under no circumstance are they obligated to do so. They are also not required to keep a smile on their face when players are purposely wasting their time. Training, disrupting zones etc; it's annoying to us, but it's primarily having an impact on your fellow players. Training other people and having a guide clean up your mess leads to players not getting unstuck from ladders and walls, not getting guilds created, or telling the 20th person for the day that they need water to regen mana. It's not getting the developer and GM attention you think it is. :T

You are telling me I need to go talk to the players? I do, and the ones that want to talk to me find a way. I'm the lead content developer, and I don't play. Your world is how you choose to play in it. If you choose to be a terrorist, that's your decision. That is NOT how you gain respect from me or anyone else that works here in an official capacity.

I don't know any of those people you mentioned. I know abacab because he is loud, and people made his character more popular than he could have ever become on his own.

If a guide bans you, you go petition to someone higher in power if you want an appeal. Then wait on it to be read and then acted on. That's the best you can do. There's really nothing else we can offer you.

I don't have any feelings one way or another about you or acabab, or anyone else that acts like a terrorist. I'm sure irl we could drink a beer and discuss the finer points of how you think things should be, but that's not the case here. You're not individually important to me.

The time spent killing your comrades.. in the long run, unless you really like doing it, wasn't worth the effort. It took about 30 minutes of discussing alternative plans of how and what we could do to protect the other people. Burning out trying to make your point.. wasn't the right approach because I'm not even sure what you were mad about to begin with.

BTW, I treat duping/hacks or 2boxing as worst crimes you can commit here, so I'm not sure why you think I don't agree.

[frefaln]

I'm not interested in gaining your respect or anyone else's. As far as "finding a way" to talk to people, when I petition in-game, then on these forums, then on IRC and get ignored on all three channels, I'd say I've done my part in reaching out. You're right, you have no "obligation" to respect that, and when I see that no respect is given, I have no obligation to respect the code of conduct as a result.

I have a feeling this will come up again, but it won't be me. Someone else will wonder why something egregious goes unnoticed for days if not weeks, and they'll finally realize that the canned GM/Dev response of "hey it's free, we're not obligated to do anything" smacks of condescension and sends the message of "hey, my time's more valuable than yours". Nothing could be further from the truth.

Dismiss/label me as a "terrorist" or whatever buzzword you like. I'll walk away from P99 after tonight and sleep quite well, and I expect you'll do the same. If every GM and Dev comes out of this thinking there's no room for improvement on their end, that's fine, it was a lost cause to begin with. But at least I tried and wasn't just content with brown-nosing.

[rsynweap84]

Let me first say these GM's have done more and pretty much everything for this server without being paid a single damn cent. I unfortunately have to claim "ragefart" as a stupid meaningless rant from an unhappy player, who actually happen's to be my brother. I have dealt with him and so I won't say anymore on that. I will say I have been on this server, not that any of you know me, since October when I found out they were bringing this back up, I was here for the DDoS attacker, and from now until all the way back then I can tell you, yes not everything has been perfect on this server. How can it be, its all done mostly from scratch, by a few dedicated people. But when something went wrong the GM's tried as best they could to expediently fix/address the issue.

If the GM's don't get back to you they're not just blowing you off, I have seen the server go from an average population of 2-300 max on a Saturday, that was a a time ago wasn't it? How many people did I see online last Saturday? Heck it wasn't even peak hours and I still saw over 800.

If you have an issue to address, address it then, if you get no response from petition, try a private message, if not there try IIRC, and if still nothing then keep trying all three. I have to deal with the fact that my idiot brother purposefully insulted a GM and the Devs with that post. I have donated to this server, and I have no regrets about it, I'm glad if every cent earned me a few more seconds of time, but don't patronize the GM's.

And don't take it out by training people. Not that you intend to listen to anything I'm saying, you of course meet the definition of stupid by refusing to listen in the first place. They got enough to do without this crap, from these kinds of people.

[frefaln]

I've said it in other threads that yes, the Devs have done an extraordinary job of getting the server stabilized and feeling very much like classic EQ. Unfortunately the technical part is only half the battle if you care about the long-term health of the project.

If you have an issue to address, address it then, if you get no response from petition, try a private message, if not there try IIRC

Substitute "private message" with the Petition Forums and I did all three. In each case, no response. In my case I was simply asking if restoring a character (which I inadvertently deleted) was even possible. I would've accepted "yes", "no", "we don't know, we'll look into it", or "yes but it'll take a week." The answer I got was: __________ in all three cases for several days.

and if still nothing then keep trying all three.

And that leads us to the whole point. Nobody should have to spam all three avenues. Just because the Devs have done a great job technically, just because P99 is donation-based, doesn't mean players are peons that deserve to be in limbo. Are you telling me that Cyrius is the only person qualified to be a GM? You expect me to believe there aren't dozens of players out there willing to be a Guide/GM to field these issues?

One of the huge problems with Live was the "us versus them" mentality with SoE vs. the player base. This is where I disagree strongly with Nilbog, that there's some sort of superficial wall between players and Devs. The implication, whether intentional or not, is that Devs are "above" the players which is crap.

They might claim they'd be just as content with 80 people as 800, but that's hogwash. As a software/game developer I know how it is — we want our work to be noticed and appreciated by as many people as possible. But that appreciation shouldn't be taken for granted either direction, and should manifest itself as an ongoing partnership toward a better product. I flatly reject this "it's up to you guys to be a community" stuff. It's up to everyone who cares one iota about EQ.

And don't take it out by training people. Not that you intend to listen to anything I'm saying, you of course meet the definition of stupid by refusing to listen in the first place.

Thanks for your input.

[Lazortag]

I'm not interested in gaining your respect or anyone else's. As far as "finding a way" to talk to people, when I petition in-game, then on these forums, then on IRC and get ignored on all three channels, I'd say I've done my part in reaching out. You're right, you have no "obligation" to respect that, and when I see that no respect is given, I have no obligation to respect the code of conduct as a result.

I have a feeling this will come up again, but it won't be me. Someone else will wonder why something egregious goes unnoticed for days if not weeks, and they'll finally realize that the canned GM/Dev response of "hey it's free, we're not obligated to do anything" smacks of condescension and sends the message of "hey, my time's more valuable than yours". Nothing could be further from the truth.

I can guarantee everyone that you're inflating the amount of time it took for someone with authority to respond to you. I know from personal experience that when something goes bad in EQ, it feels like the apocalypse, and every second of not being able to play feels like a year. I'm sorry, but one night of not being able to play because you stupidly deleted a character is not the end of the world.

I also don't think that character restoration should be very high on the list of priorities, but GM's/devs/etc might think differently.

[frefaln]

LOL, you can "guarantee" it huh? Silly Lazortag proving my point about assumptions people here make.

Petition #1 (deleted char): filed 07-10-2010, 02:00 PM. Bumped 07-11-2010, 11:59 AM. Response 07-12-2010, 11:39 PM. Response time: approx. 57 hours. That's one long night according to you.

Petition #2 (acct status query): filed 07-14-2010, 03:14 PM. Bumped 07-18-2010, 01:05 PM and 07-21-2010, 09:28 PM. Still no response as of today. That's over two weeks, or in your world, a really, really, really long night.

Try again, sport.

[Drakul]

I really like being able to sell stuff in EC. I noticed the auctions were very slow tonight and nobody was buying my pelts... is it because of this? Did the trade area move already?

Sticking to classic is great but ecomm tunnel trading was a huge part of my classic experience, much more than this one problematic NPC. I don't see why she can't just be removed altogether. Sure it's not completely ideal, but it tops the current situation and would seem to be a simple fix.

Why allow a couple bad apples affect the server economy for everyone?

[mixxit]

I'm not interested in gaining your respect or anyone else's. As far as "finding a way" to talk to people, when I petition in-game, then on these forums, then on IRC and get ignored on all three channels, I'd say I've done my part in reaching out. You're right, you have no "obligation" to respect that, and when I see that no respect is given, I have no obligation to respect the code of conduct as a result.

I have a feeling this will come up again, but it won't be me. Someone else will wonder why something egregious goes unnoticed for days if not weeks, and they'll finally realize that the canned GM/Dev response of "hey it's free, we're not obligated to do anything" smacks of condescension and sends the message of "hey, my time's more valuable than yours". Nothing could be further from the truth.

Dismiss/label me as a "terrorist" or whatever buzzword you like. I'll walk away from P99 after tonight and sleep quite well, and I expect you'll do the same. If every GM and Dev comes out of this thinking there's no room for improvement on their end, that's fine, it was a lost cause to begin with. But at least I tried and wasn't just content with brown-nosing.

You sound like a douche to be fair. You are basically saying you didn't respond to ME on here, here and here. So fucking what? There are thousands upon thousands of petitions in that queue we are not obligated to reply to any of them. But we try to answer them as best we can with the time that we commit to working on the project. Some of the team members work on this almost 7 hours a day every single day for the last year!

Do you understand how gutting it is to read your comments? I would say this team has done more than even sony did for you when you were paying them $15 a month for the privilege.

So no, you and hundreds others haven't had a reply on XXX issue for some well justified reason. Not because we want to ignore you. And certainly not because we want you to ignore the rules that are set up to help everyone.

[frefaln]

^ and yet, you still haven't addressed the question of why there aren't more GMs. It's common sense, dude. You just conceded that you have a huge backlog of unanswered petitions. You would think the light bulb would go on, and you guys would realize that maybe you should add a couple volunteer guides/GMs to field the Tier 1 questions.

But no, if you guys didn't think of it, it's a stupid idea right? Gotta stroke the 'ole egos of the godly Devs.

Oh, and the "douche" sentiment is mutual.

[mixxit]

It sounds to me like you have way too much time on your hands and you just want to moan. We don't think that at all, are extremely busy and keep having to deal with cocks like yourself.

The team doesn't just invite everyone that wants powers, we have to go through it and discuss each member carefully and to be quite honest not that many people apply. Then there's the actual skill level involved. Sometimes we need to train the people involved and that takes time.

Then there is the problem of trust. Sometimes we get some gems and sometimes we get some applications from people like you. So no, there is no lightbulb to go on. That isn't a eureka moment that we are stretched, unpaid and from the sounds of your posts, unappreciated.

[frefaln]

Well, with all due respect Mixxit, you still don't get it. The reason there are "people like me" is because there are people like you, people who think they're above us lowly players just because you put X hours into the project. My response to that is the same quote you used: So fucking what?

I'm a software developer and I put countless hours into projects too. And let me tell you, when people play my games and have questions or file bugs I am extremely thankful to them. Why? Becuase their time is just as valuable as mine is and I understand that. Oh, and here's the kicker -- I've never charged a cent for any of my apps. I did it because I love game development, and I never once thought my shit didn't stink or gave players the response of "I'm not obligated to do anything for you." That kinda crap is as condescending as it gets. It's so backwards that you think I'm the jerk here, because I feel it's the exact opposite.

[Tseng]

Well, with all due respect Mixxit, you still don't get it. The reason there are "people like me" is because there are people like you, people who think they're above us lowly players just because you put X hours into the project. My response to that is the same quote you used: So fucking what?

I'm a software developer and I put countless hours into projects too. And let me tell you, when people play my games and have questions or file bugs I am extremely thankful to them. Why? Becuase their time is just as valuable as mine is and I understand that. Oh, and here's the kicker -- I've never charged a cent for any of my apps. I did it because I love game development, and I never once thought my shit didn't stink or gave players the response of "I'm not obligated to do anything for you." That kinda crap is as condescending as it gets. It's so backwards that you think I'm the jerk here, because I feel it's the exact opposite.

You're the jerk. I didn't have access to my account for 2 weeks, took a while for the Devs to respond to inquiries, even though I'd gone all three routes just like you. You know what I said when they finally got shit squared away? "Thanks for wasting your time restoring my account"

[frefaln]

Thanks for your input! And I'm quite happy to be the "jerk" if it means I'm the only one here capable of thinking outside the box, realizing that maybe -- gasp! -- Devs shouldn't be tasked with responding to character-deletion queries and account restorations. Maybe, just maybe, Devs should be able to focus on developing while lower/restricted GMs handle the low-hanging fruit. Everybody wins, but no, let's just shove our noses further up some Dev anuses, shall we?

[mixxit]

I'd just like to add this to the last part of this discussion and it will be my last post.

Before I was on the team I spent a lot of time submitting ideas and doing my best to provide tools or help out in different ways. I'm not saying all of you enjoy giving, heck it's quite obvious some of you enjoy taking and griefing. People have different ways of entertaining themselves.

But for those who sit there and demand things be provided or keep getting angry when they are waiting for content. Why not actually get involved.

You don't need Admin status to be able to collate classic information and post it a readable useful format on the forums. (And a lot of you wonderful players DO do this for us on a regular basis)

You don't need Admin status to discuss raid rules and come up with a solution (again a lot of you do)

You don't need Admin status to learn where bugs are occuring, report as much detail and provide possible solutions (<3 to the bug forum people)

I can quite honestly say that in my own experience working with you all is one of the reasons this server has got to the quality it has today (excluding the EXCEPTIONAL amount of time nilbog, aeol, rogean etc have dedicated to this project)

When we try to fix things we literally have to come to you guys for your wonderful archives of information, feedback and knowledge.

The only thing that doesn't actually get us anywhere nearer to implementing, fixing or updating things is coming on the forums throwing your toys around screaming. All you do is make it painful for everyone else and make yourself look like a fool when showing us the inner workings of your minds like your believe that we somehow need to stroke the 'egos of the godly Devs'

So to all of you players who see a problem and get to work on a solution with all the resources available to you I salute you. You truly are the most valuable type of member of this community.

To all of you who can't use your head and would rather throw a tantrum, well, you have a lot of growing up to do and should be ashamed if you're as old as most of the player base is from 1999.

[frefaln]

Thanks for that, Mixxit. I still stand by my posts 100%, so sorry I didn't sugar-coat them the way most others would.

At the end of the day, here's how it breaks down:

* Time it took for anyone to reply to my request to restore a level 39 character: 57 hours

* Time it took for Cyrius to run around EC acting like a hero because evil toons were getting trained: 57 seconds

Case closed.

[mmiles8]

Frefaln, Kebbon, Dude.

As a rule, I don't reply directly to folks who are trolling for a reaction, but I'm going to make an exception this once since I personally know you somewhat.

Up until very recently, even though you had done some stuff that wasn't the brightest idea at the time, you were still sort of in that "Weelllll...." category where it could be chalked up to a bad day and the circumstances.

Even when you made your post about trains being a good thing, and wanting to be more afraid of other people's stupidity than the mobs, I didn't personally see eye to eye with it, but I could see your point since you raised it like a rational human being. So now you're out there making ogres and dark elves all over EC and west freeport tremble at your own self-diagnosed stupidity.

You'll still leave a bad taste, but not so much once folks hear the whole story behind your personal situation. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that in your personal case, you may not be past the point of no return. Give the system a chance to catch up to you, and give due process a reasonable chance. But for the love of god stop acting like the rest of the banned idiots.

You're not one of them. You're better than the dipshits e-thuggin' it here that you've befriended since your ban. You let your impatience get the better of you.

I can not tell you how many times in my life I've gotten impatient, and kept plugging right along in spite of that, and been thankful that I continued to take the high road instead of lashing out like a wounded badger done poked with a stick. When you think you've waited long enough, wait longer, you'll realize what a fool you almost made of yourself in a few days, every single time.

So step back over from the dark side and start being reasonable again, or reasonable is the last thing you'll see from anyone here.

[frefaln]

Anleus, I think it's funny that you think you "personally know me" somewhat. Based on what, one MM group where you bossed everyone around (including yelling at Bitt the necro because he made the unforgivable sin of killing solos in between pulls)? You need to stop pretending like you know everything about EQ and its players. You don't.

And no, I haven't made a fool out of myself. I don't regret a single thing, because I've gotten more feedback and interaction with Devs in this one thread than my previous 1.5 months combined. Mission accomplished.

[Humerox]

I have only ONE suggestion. Can her run speed be increased without affecting anything else?

Make her fast enough that there's no way a level 1 can outrun her, even with a 50 SoW. Heck, make her fast enough 50 Selos won't outrun her, while yer at it.

Can't outrun her..no train.

[frefaln]

^ unfortunately that doesn't work with a pulling method I described earlier. A level 1 necro can easily park a pet by mob X, run clear across the zone and (assuming target hasn't switched) engage the pet and warp the mob all the way over.

If changing the NPC's tactics is truly on the table, then summoning seems the way to go. But this seems to be a slippery slope, because once EC is "locked down" the problem will most likely migrate elsewhere.

Since P99 is clearly the frontrunner in EQEmu, I'm curious how the partnership works between P99 Devs and the eqemulator.org folks? Is it not possible to enact IP banning at the account setup stage? Yes, proxies can get around that but as proxies are identified they can be banned too.

[Humerox]

Pets shouldn't be command-able that far away, anyway. Change that too, if it's an easy fix.

[frefaln]

Agreed. Since I didn't play hardly any pet classes on Live I don't remember if pets were commandable from that far away in classic or not. Although I did play a shammy in the PoP era and I seem to remember being able to tell a pet to Go Away when it got lost clear across the zone.

[Bubbles]

Pets shouldn't be command-able that far away, anyway. Change that too, if it's an easy fix.

Lets not change that until live minos stop popping up at Exe/Sage/Frenzied/Lord/GODKNOWSWHEREELSE in lower guk, k? At least give us a chance to feign and poof our own pets before the other half of the zone warps on us, k?

I ask for so little. :)

[Loftus]

This thread is comical.

Why should the devs have to do anything about it? We as a community could have chosen any zone we wanted to become the social place. We apparently chose EC again, as in live.

We have noone to blame but ourselves.

They are obviously banning people and doing what they can to prohibit griefing.

But, as already pointed out, you should rethink if you indiscriminitely go AFK or sit right in the line of fire in a zone that has KOS mobs able to kill you in it. Period.

[mmiles8]

Is it not possible to enact IP banning at the account setup stage? Yes, proxies can get around that but as proxies are identified they can be banned too.

I pointed that out here (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=13191). You trolled it.

[frefaln]

That's not the same thing. The "solution" you proposed is designed for the HTTP protocol, which is not the underlying protocol for EverQuest. You presented it as if it was something that'd stop proxy users from accessing EQ post-ban — it wouldn't, because the proxy user would be using a UDP/SOCKS5 tool.

However, if eqemulator.org worked with P99 to establish a list of banned IPs (be it private or proxy), then it'd be very simple to deny registration to those IPs. You wouldn't even need the software you linked for that.

[mmiles8]

To create a game account you need a forum account. Forum accounts come first, and happen using... wait for it... HTTP!

There are hundreds of proxy servers around the world, and they each lease thousands of IPs. Read how the software works. Any all volunteer project is better off drumming up 400 bucks than trying to manually chase down several hundred thousand IP addresses.

[frefaln]

/sigh... no shit the registration piece works on HTTP. But guess what? Currently there's no apparent direct partnership between P99 and eqemulator.org (that I'm aware of).

Again, you were presenting the software as something that would solve the problem now, as in under the current arrangement. Why else would you say "if we all pitch in"? Nice try to retrofit what you were suggesting, though! Unfortunately for you, I'm not as dumb as you're trying to make me out to be. Keep trying to school me even though software/web development is what I do for a living, kiddo.

I did read how the software works. I've worked with proxies both from a client and server perspective. Have you? Somehow I doubt it.

So here's lesson #1: it doesn't matter if a proxy server can issue hundreds of unique IP addresses. You wouldn't block registration at the individual IP level. In many cases you'd get away with simply banning the first two octets, though realistically you'd probably need to go the third octet. Granted, you're potentially blocking some innocent people in that case but that'd have to be handled on an individual basis. The bottom line is you don't need to track thousands and thousands of IPs.

Class dismissed.

[Rogean]

Currently there's no apparent direct partnership between P99 and eqemulator.org (that I'm aware of).

Except the person who owns/runs EQEmulator happens to be a project manager and also run the servers for Project 1999.

(me)

[frefaln]

Fantastic! Now I'm aware. So now that that's established, what's your take on why IP banning can't be implemented at the registration level?

Edit: yes, I realize that this is hardly a silver bullet either. A person banned on a Comcast IP (for example) could easily use a web-proxy or head to a public library to set up more registrations. And for all we know there may already be hundreds of dormant registrations sitting around for later use. But still, one step at a time.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

yup, move it to nfport again. I don't care, it's part of being an evil race, and being kos. Other things I'd like to see dealt with before this anywho.

[jyaku]

why not just lower her level and give her a very small amount of HP?

[Humerox]

Lets not change that until live minos stop popping up at Exe/Sage/Frenzied/Lord/GODKNOWSWHEREELSE in lower guk, k? At least give us a chance to feign and poof our own pets before the other half of the zone warps on us, k?

I ask for so little. :)

Lol. I honestly am only able to remember being able to poof the pet if it got lost in classic. I don't remember being able to have the pet attack once I was beyond a certain range. Could be wrong about that though.

The pet "go away" command should always be available.

[Nagash]

Except the person who owns/runs EQEmulator happens to be a project manager and also run the servers for Project 1999.

(me)

Rogean, you just won that thread :)

Regards,

Nagash