Open season on ALL Guilds!

[Sirken]

see how stupid these threads are?

[Twainz]

Damn! You got me sirks. Good one bro :D

[Holey]

see how stupid these threads are?

i even pvp my own guild on down time. no yt though :( i usually plug

[Stasis01]

Do you think a small variance would benefit the server due to spreading riad mobs out throughout the week instead of all being 1 day back to back Sirken?

[Twainz]

i even pvp my own guild on down time. no yt though :( i usually plug

Killed Noah in solb. Sent me tells how funny it was making him rage in TS. Love you cheese! Happy birthday!

[Stasis01]

I imagine he will ignore my question, but reply to all the stupid nonsense that usually fills these boards.

[Derubael]

Due to current forumquesting made by some ALL GUILDS members(everyone), it is now open griefing season on the entire red server.

I am now unleashing Ambrotos on you all.

Have fun!

[Kraftwerk]

Haha your sig is cut off.

Hurts now doesnt it! Bring Back Sigs 2013.

[Swish]

http://s24.postimg.org/dv9qhq6c5/forumsigfinal1.jpg

Luclin models Derubael? oh no :(

[Elderan]

I remember when Verant removed the EQ boards...

[Stasis01]

Sirken probably became busy I guess.

[Stasis01]

I mean it's a fair question, but much like the GM events - you cannot speak to GM's or have a conversation with them about server mechanics, the history of the server and potential future.

It's just "this is EQ, I don't have to answer to anyone!"

[Sirken]

Do you think a small variance would benefit the server due to spreading riad mobs out throughout the week instead of all being 1 day back to back Sirken?

benefiting the server is a matter of perspective. Benefit the server how? improve the Red Raid scene? Improve the PvP encounters? Improve the population? Improve the midlevel game so people can play tanks? see my point?

but here are some facts, if multiple guilds were able/willing to have 24/7 trackers and use batphones, then yes, their odds of getting some of those mobs would improve. but, you will also have less pvp if nobody is certain on the exact spawn time of the mob.

in regards to the current non variance system, as an outsider looking in, it really doesn't look fun. all the mobs are slewn on the same day of the week by a force that clearly outnumbers all other competitive forces, leaving zero chance for merbs and while theres pvp, i imagine it's very one sided.

but Stasis my dear, lets go deeper down the rabbit hole.

the real reason people are crying isn't because the raid mobs are all being killed on one day of the week. the reason for the tears is because they are upset that they keep getting beat down 45 vs 20, every week they are outnumbered at least 2:1, sometimes i'd bet 3:1.

and thats where most players stop investigating, but not me, your faithfully devoted server GM. oh no Stasis, i go even deeper.

WHY is it 45vs20 or 50vs15 every week? Why cant the second guild recruit new players? Why can't it retain current players?

there's currently two reasons for those things. 1) a lot of people want easy road to pixels and join top guild. 2) a lot of people think the other guild is a bunch of douchebags and would rather quit playing than join the same guild as the dumb asses that spew their garbage into OOC, make a habit of griefing players, and just act like general pieces shit.

Stasis, i hope you feel this answer was satisfactory. i promise i will try to ignore all other posts in this thread, just so you can feel special (FAVORITISM!).

<3
Sirken





http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/304/928/coverimage_crop_650x440.jpg?1316048146

[Stasis01]

Yeah, but I am not talking about 24/7 trackers, alts etc. I am talking about a minimal variance to spread mobs out throughout the week to give guilds more than one chance a week to get shit on by a maximally optimized raid guild.

I agree with all of what you said, and please listen when I say this - thank you for replying. Most of the shit you said is 100% spot on, which is appreciated.

[Stasis01]

I mean currently it is just not doable man, 3 years - I have seen how many crews go, is it so unrealistic to ask for a minor adjustment that is already active on blue, throw the server a bone to have a chance etc.

[Holey]

loooooooool that gm favortism

[Andis]

Yeah, but I am not talking about 24/7 trackers, alts etc. I am talking about a minimal variance to spread mobs out throughout the week to give guilds more than one chance a week to get shit on by a maximally optimized raid guild.

I agree with all of what you said, and please listen when I say this - thank you for replying. Most of the shit you said is 100% spot on, which is appreciated.

agreed with everything

let me chime in here with saying. sirken when I asked you a while before about variance on red, you responded with: "variance on red is not put in because it's suppose to stimulate more pvp."

with the current situation we have, the opposite is occurring. plain and simple. they take 3 hours, kill all content and log off.

is this pvp? and actions toward a healthy server?

just need an answer to this sirken, pls if you would. (not trying to be smart - really want to know a counter for this argument.)

[Colgate]

2) a lot of people think the other guild is a bunch of douchebags and would rather quit playing than join the same guild as the dumb asses that spew their garbage into OOC, make a habit of griefing players, and just act like general pieces shit.

not valid, considering nihilum has people like bulletproofx, strydur, tune, nizzar, ender, elderan, etc.

[Retti_]

Yeah, but I am not talking about 24/7 trackers, alts etc. I am talking about a minimal variance to spread mobs out throughout the week to give guilds more than one chance a week to get shit on by a maximally optimized raid guild.

I agree with all of what you said, and please listen when I say this - thank you for replying. Most of the shit you said is 100% spot on, which is appreciated.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1384241/fingerwag.gif

[Derubael]

http://s24.postimg.org/dv9qhq6c5/forumsigfinal1.jpg

Luclin models Derubael? oh no :(

just for iksars :)

[Sirken]

not valid, considering nihilum has people like bulletproofx, strydur, tune, nizzar, ender, elderan, etc.

go in game for a month, ask every new player in shitty gear; which group/guild of players they feel is the most douchey group/guild on the server.

let me know results in 30days please.

[Stasis01]

My vote goes to Force, little bitches and now esp as Sharknado guarding zonelines for Nizzar.

Little bitch crew should be their new name.

[Andis]

agreed with everything

let me chime in here with saying. sirken when I asked you a while before about variance on red, you responded with: "variance on red is not put in because it's suppose to stimulate more pvp."

with the current situation we have, the opposite is occurring. plain and simple. they take 3 hours, kill all content and log off.

is this pvp? and actions toward a healthy server?

just need an answer to this sirken, pls if you would. (not trying to be smart - really want to know a counter for this argument.)

[Colgate]

go in game for a month, ask every new player in shitty gear; which group/guild of players they feel is the most douchey group/guild on the server.

let me know results in 30days please.

new players won't have as much knowledge and experience playing with the group of aforementioned people

they're not going to know about the shady shit that has gone on over the past two years; they're just going to see nizzar handing them trash loot that has been rotting in their bank for 7 months and join the easy pixel route

[Sirken]

new players won't have as much knowledge and experience playing with the group of aforementioned people

they're not going to know about the shady shit that has gone on over the past two years; they're just going to see nizzar handing them trash loot that has been rotting in their bank for 7 months and join the easy pixel route

exactly. they know what they see, and what they experience.

facts/history those are all meaningless, and Perception > Everything. always will be.

the entire point of your homework assignment was to teach you that.

[Retti_]

go in game for a month, ask every new player in shitty gear; which group/guild of players they feel is the most douchey group/guild on the server.

let me know results in 30days please.

My vote goes to Force, little bitches and now esp as Sharknado guarding zonelines for Nizzar.

Little bitch crew should be their new name.

http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/5fe/4e5/1f5/resized/not-sure-if-troll-meme-generator-not-sure-if-troll-or-just-very-stupid-fdc743.jpg?1322282226.jpg

[Holey]

My vote goes to Force, little bitches and now esp as Sharknado guarding zonelines for Nizzar.

Little bitch crew should be their new name.

damn sound a little mad :mad::mad::mad::mad:

[Holey]

all i hear is whining and bitching, its a fucking game calm the fuck down.
its not your fucking life.

oh ps. i grp with noobies with my twink. i help people out yaknowwhatimean?

[Stasis01]

That's a bullshit point. People aren't going to stick around getting shit kicked every week because they perceive their guild mates as good people, or are attracted to people due to white knight status. This is like Borderlands kids everyones shit. If you think Nihi is perceived as nicer people so they get more recruits is laughable - their latest recruits were OFFICERS in the resistance.

It's broken and not fun, and if they care enough about their guildmates they go down with the ship, which a lot have.

[Andis]

ty for addressing me sirken, lololol

[freez]

but, you will also have less pvp if nobody is certain on the exact spawn time of the mob.




UHHHHHHHH

no.


problem is all mobs on a 7 day timer and a 3 day timer are all killed by 50+ people every monday /tues

I for one am not logging in to fight 50 + players for a dragon with 20 pals.


Are u fucking serious sirken? lol

[Stasis01]

I mean if people can't accomplish anything when they have a small variance spread throughout the week I'll concede and leave the box forever, and agree that this is not broken and ruining the server unlike blue which is flourishing in every aspect.

[Kraftwerk]

its not your fucking life.


Be careful, your guildie Elderan stated he would be raiding 60 hours a week soon, that is just raiding, if he plays any more and hits 80 or 100 hours a week, I think it's safe to assume it is in fact his life.

That's the real problem, Nihilum will play 60-100 hrs a week, others can't. There is no problem with this (from server perspective, from human perspective I can't even begin to describe how much is wrong with this). The person who plays the most gets the most, it'll always be this way. If Red Dawn had 50 people who would play 60 hrs a week, things would be interesting.

[Nizzarr]

I heard nihilum plays over 168 hours a week, what a bunch of losers

[Holey]

I heard nihilum plays over 168 hours a week, what a bunch of losers

damn thats how much i work in 2 weeks

[Andis]

I heard nihilum plays over 168 hours a week, what a bunch of losers

less playtime

more visits to the dentist imo

[Kraftwerk]

Lol Elderan himself literally said he plans on playing minimum 60 hours a week. I'm not making this up....

[Nizzarr]

we will probably play that much when its released.

so what? you jelly mad bad or fat? combination of the earlier adjectives?

Lay it on me string bean

[Nizzarr]

less playtime

more visits to the dentist imo

are you the guy that lost to a 59 druid in the best of the best?

you sound mad.

[heartbrand]

Not that I put any weight into BOTB's as a translation of skill, but you came in 3rd in your respective botb so it's kinda lol to then make fun of andis who has shit gear for coming in 2nd.

[Kraftwerk]

I'm just saying the person who dedicates the most time gets the most loot.

Also saying that in twenty years I highly doubt you'll look back on this time in your life and think "I'm proud of the manner in which I spent my time then". No matter how you spin this (its a hobby, etc.) spending 60+ hours weekly on a video game is not healthy or productive as a human being. I feel bad for you guys more than anything, I'll include you in my prayers to Jesus Christ our lord and savior tonight.

[Colgate]

exactly. they know what they see, and what they experience.

facts/history those are all meaningless, and Perception > Everything. always will be.

the entire point of your homework assignment was to teach you that.

yeah, those facts are meaningless when you've lost hundreds of players because of their existence

this is why there are hardly any people in the opposing guilds; the staff is a collection of people lacking a backbone needed to make the server not a cesspool that drives people away if you're not in the crowd that benefits from playing like scumbags

[Andis]

are you the guy that lost to a 59 druid in the best of the best?

you sound mad.

given andis inventory compared to all participants, pretty happy about the outcome

ill take second place in a botb match anyday cuz we all know on the field who will be victorious.

def not as mad as you tho, how many botb have you played? and how many titles? ouch

[Holey]

are you the guy that lost to a 59 druid in the best of the best?

you sound mad.

hahhahahahahHAHAHAHAhahahhaHAHAHAhahahhaHAHAH

[heartbrand]

Druid BOTB was more heavily weighted to gear than any other due to the allowance of epic clicky.

[Smedy]

not sure about this, my immersion has been ruined by that new gm guys signature, what a fucking disgrace to have unclassic models and be staff on classic project

chewies gonna getcha

[Andis]

Andis the Preserver has spawned.

Here to preserve whats left of our server's pvp and red efforts.

pras yt

pras pvp

preserve red 99

[Retti_]

we will probably play that much when its released.

so what? you jelly mad bad or fat? combination of the earlier adjectives?

Lay it on me string bean

Lold

[Colgate]

nizzar calling other people those things when he himself is all of those is p funny

[Nizzarr]

I'm just saying the person who dedicates the most time gets the most loot.

Also saying that in twenty years I highly doubt you'll look back on this time in your life and think "I'm proud of the manner in which I spent my time then". No matter how you spin this (its a hobby, etc.) spending 60+ hours weekly on a video game is not healthy or productive as a human being. I feel bad for you guys more than anything, I'll include you in my prayers to Jesus Christ our lord and savior tonight.

Thats a cool opinion you have sir, let me disregard it as I do in everyone of your posts.

[lite]

More of the same is working out very well, lets continue it.

[Nizzarr]

its working good, think we had 190 people on last night?

cant blame anyone for not wanting to guild with stasis, considering the fact hes both in azrael and red dawn at the same time.

A recipe for continuity naw mean?

[lite]

working out well for people literally prepared to devote themselves to being present at every spawn. Shouldn't be the criteria for enjoying a 15 year old game. Even when we were taking your dragons we'd take a break every other spawn or 2.

Seek help.

[hagard]

hahhahahahahHAHAHAHAhahahhaHAHAHAhahahhaHAHAH

Lold

get dat dkp boys
we all know captn yellow teeth aint funny

[Retti_]

It's funny cus u can see the final inception occurring as Gyno works his way into Nizzar inner lobes

[Nizzarr]

It's good to have gyno inside you

[iiNGloriouS]

http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/5fe/4e5/1f5/resized/not-sure-if-troll-meme-generator-not-sure-if-troll-or-just-very-stupid-fdc743.jpg?1322282226.jpg
+1 Jessica Jung. Diggin it. Dats a gorgeous Korean right dur.

Anyways, why don't we have a trial period of variance? As I see it now, people want the easy route, don't see Az taking many dargons and don't even turn their heads to give us a chance. Every guild has their assholes, what guild doesn't? I also don't understand how we are supposed to field new people if nothing is even being tried or experimented with in terms of variance, no one wants to join the losing side.

Would you want to be one of the 300 spartans against all those persians? Probably not, but some people are braving it and I think I am the only new playesr in the past few months to actually stick through with Azrael; the rest have already left, to my knowledge. It is sad, but true.

[Holey]

get dat dkp boys
we all know captn yellow teeth aint funny

fuck dkp i go for the immersion that i had on blue LOL

yet i do it here cuz ima bluebie but yet i stick around to pvp?

[Retti_]

Velious variable b4 variance variable

Do u even science?

[Holey]

FREE THROWN BOUDLERS AT ANYONE CHEEERS MATE!

[DrNarcisse]

benefiting the server is a matter of perspective. Benefit the server how? improve the Red Raid scene? Improve the PvP encounters? Improve the population? Improve the midlevel game so people can play tanks? see my point?

First off, raid mob variance has nothing to do with mid level game so it's stupid to even mention. Red raid scene for the past 18+ months = huge zerg forms up, keeps the raid mobs in their own preferred window and overruns the mobs with huge amounts of players every single week at the same time. They know when it spawns, so the only variable in the equation is how many players they can get online. That means it is an enormous benefit to be a zerg. It's the only variable in the equation that matters! More players in guild = less competition = easier pixel farming.

but here are some facts, if multiple guilds were able/willing to have 24/7 trackers and use batphones, then yes, their odds of getting some of those mobs would improve. but, you will also have less pvp if nobody is certain on the exact spawn time of the mob.

Who says there would be LESS pvp? How many mass guild battles have there been in the past 18 months for a raid target? Less than 15? Sure doesn't seem like you can get much lower. You have the majority of high level players in one guild, and the majority of those players log in once a week for several hours to kill the majority of the raid mobs in game - and then, THEY LOG OFF! I can't blame them, they've been farming the same raid mobs for over a year, killing them like clockwork in their assembly line of players. There is no incentive for them to stay online. Why play any more than you have to to earn your dragon kill points when that is all that matters?

in regards to the current non variance system, as an outsider looking in, it really doesn't look fun. all the mobs are slewn on the same day of the week by a force that clearly outnumbers all other competitive forces, leaving zero chance for merbs and while theres pvp, i imagine it's very one sided.

No, there is no rabbit hole to go down. This is the only point that matters. You see this ass a Nihilum vs Azrael problem, when in fact it's a server policy problem. Your (or Nilbogs) policy is the problem. You have been complicate at every stage of this as you've been the GM for the entire 18 month period. It's YOUR fault for not understanding that the rabbit hole doesn't go deeper. Read the above quote and realize it has NOTHING to do with Nihilum, Azrael, Red Dawn, or any current or former guild. For 18 months you've had the power to change the raid scene (what 95%+ of players are here for when you dig deep down) by adding variance and stopping the abilty of one zerg to completely monopolize the raid mobs in the fashion you describe above. There is NOTHING ELSE that matters. Let me just make one adjustment to what you said in the last line:

"leaving zero chance for mobs and [b]WHEN[b] theres pvp, i imagine its very one sided."

For the past 18 months you've been the GM whose policy has allowed one guild to leave ZERO (0%) chance for mobs and WHEN (big distinction, since we all know these occurrences of pvp for raid mobs is actually extremely rare) there is pvp it's completely one sided. So you not only acknowledge that the only variable in the raid scene is number of players, that the pvp is completely one sided because one guild can become a ZERG and give not only 0% chance in pvp because of the power in numbers, but also 0% chance in getting a chance at a raid mob. The fact is, any change to variance will start a path of net positive effect on the server and guild structure. Your current structure gives 0% chance in both PVE and PVP to any zerg that materializes (again, it doesn't have to be Nihilum, this isn't anti Nihilum, this is anti-server policy). Now you want to construe that point into what you say below this and muddle the entire argument. This is the only argument that matters!

but Stasis my dear, lets go deeper down the rabbit hole.

Again, none of what you read below actually matters for anyone following along, but it would be better to argue it all at once.

the real reason people are crying isn't because the raid mobs are all being killed on one day of the week. the reason for the tears is because they are upset that they keep getting beat down 45 vs 20, every week they are outnumbered at least 2:1, sometimes i'd bet 3:1.

Wow, that's extremely presumptuous of you. I sure would argue that these players are INDEED mad that all the mobs die on one day of the week. They are at the mercy of the players they are competing with, who get to choose which day, hour, and minute they want to compete for mobs. Zerg guild pushes a mob into their preferred guild window when they can get the most players online, and then competing guild is then chastised when they aren't even able to show up with a majority of their players to contest in a 3:1 fashion. Sure seems like it's you whose missing the overall picture.

If we go deeper, they are mad that the only variable in end game on this server is how many players you can recruit into your guild. The clear advantage for recruiting would be the zerg guild (again, name doesn't matter), and even if the zerg guild was overthrown or fell apart in some fashion, ANOTHER zerg guid would form. So again, it doesn't matter which guild name is en vogue, it matters what the server policy is to give people NOT in the zerg guild a chance to compete. The current policy, as you've stated above (!!!), gives 0% chance for them to compete in both PVP and PVE. As the lead GM and lead PLAYER ADVOCATE, I say good job! A job well done!

and thats where most players stop investigating, but not me, your faithfully devoted server GM. oh no Stasis, i go even deeper.

A tryhard attempt at conflating the arguments until everything is muddled and unarguable, but as a devoted servant of truth, I will follow you into your argument Inception to prove you wrong some more.

WHY is it 45vs20 or 50vs15 every week? Why cant the second guild recruit new players? Why can't it retain current players?

Because your server policy gives complete (PVP and PVE) control to the guild with the most members in its guild. Because 95% of this server would rather farm a mob over farming a player (which, incidentally, your staff has admonished as "griefing" in many scenarios and "what is killing the server population" - no, your policy is.). So you really have the audacity to ask why a second guild can't recruit a competing force against a zerg guild that, as you've stated, has completely (100%) control of PVP and PVE situations when the vast majority of players would rather collect their weekly DKP cheque over having weekly PVP fights.

On the topic of retaining current players, I find it laudable that you wouldn't bring up the fact that Nihilum has churned through literally HUNDREDS of players since inception. The guild with the WORST player retention is the one at the top, not any secondary guild that has ever been formed. So your entire argument below that focuses on why the secondary guild can't recruit more than 20 players to compete against 60 is bunk. Nihilum has the worst player retention track record, just as would be expected with a zerg in any game, imo. Nothing is personal, it's just log in complete your weekly quest and log out. I'd wager most Nihilum members hate eachother, but with the server policy that completely (as you admitted) gives them all the power on the server, there is NOTHING another guild can or will ever be able to do.

there's currently two reasons for those things. 1) a lot of people want easy road to pixels and join top guild. 2) a lot of people think the other guild is a bunch of douchebags and would rather quit playing than join the same guild as the dumb asses that spew their garbage into OOC, make a habit of griefing players, and just act like general pieces shit.

Wow! You actually made a good point (although again you're arguing the wrong points), the majority of players want easy road to pixels which leads them into the top guild, the zerg. The second point is just dumb, I don't even really get what you're saying. You're talking about "the other guild" like it matters. Your policy is what has created these guilds, you've created a system where it's much much better to join The Empire because of their chokehold on PVP/PVE based on pure numbers, rather than join The Rebels who are limited in player resources.

Chastising "the other guild" for their OOC, griefing players, or acting like pieces of shit sure is the pot calling the kettle black. Since you keep wanting to bring this up to a Nihilum vs Azrael argument (again: it's not!), 100% of Nihilum members came from other guilds, even king wheelchair Nizzar himself (Ocean of Tears), and a good number of CURRENT Nihilum members came from Azrael. There are and have been those same pieces of shit in Nihilum, so why try to use it as an argument for why your SERVER POLICY is bad?

You've created (or at least continued) a system where one zerg guild will ALWAYS own this server. It doesn't matter if its Nihilum, Azrael, Red Dawn, or a guild name not yet created. Your server policy is wrong and while you're able to see it (0% chance for another guild to compete in PVP or PVE), you're just not able to admit its your fault and something completely under your control. We all know the definition of crazy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. You've done this for 18 months and I think you're expecting a different result without action. It's not happening. No one is ever going to be able to lead a satisfactory competing 2nd guild on this server without being able to compete in PVE and PVP. There's no way you can recruit or retain quality players when the chance of success is so low (0%, according to you Sirken).

With variance, you open up the door for leaner, more agile, and more active guilds to move in and take raid mobs or at least compete in some fashion with the zerg guild. They certainly won't win every mob or every guild on guild event, but they will win some, and then some more, and then some more. You will give hope to people who feel trapped in the current top zerg guild to quit it and do their own thing, instead of being forced to be in the only guild that kills MOBs, or a guild with leadership they don't like. It feels stupid even arguing these points anymore, you've had 18 months to make completely obvious changes and you've failed time and time again to do them. But I will pose the question again: In the case of variance, can you (or someone) please tell me 1 good thing about non-variance system? What is one positive effect that it brings the server? And then tell me why trying ANYTHING other than the current system, that we have 18 months of empiric data on, is not better?

[Retti_]

HOLY SHIT MAN

[HeisChuck]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/foto12/500Flipping-Through-Book.gif

[Retti_]

Did u just copy paste the entirety of the latest game of thrones book?

[r00t]

http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/page/tldr-41233.jpg

[r00t]

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/highangleed/memes-obama-tldr.jpg

[Kraftwerk]

nizzar calling other people those things when he himself is all of those is p funny

I don't know, I don't think it's funny anymore. People proudly proclaiming they are eagerly anticipating spending 9 hours per day every week on a video game is frightening. There is more to life out there. I look back on when I thought I was a hardcore gamer 10 years ago, and I regret spending like 3-4 hours a day gaming back then. Little did I know that pales in comparison.

I'm genuinely curious, not being facetious here, how do you guys picture this time spent? Do you think about 10,15 years down the line? How do you imagine yourself reflecting on the past when your older?

Like a little bit a week seems like a good hobby, maybe 10 hours a week. But devoting so much time, and at what cost. You can't honestly say it doesn't affect your personal lives. Spending 60 hours a week means that, if you have a job, you are leaving 0 time for either sleep or social interaction, something is getting cut. Human beings need real emotional connections me face to face interaction. Or it means you don't have a job, I guess.

Just curious as to how you folks who play 60+ a week or plan to in the future justify it or how you look at such a large portion of your time spent trying to relive your past.

[freez]

hot damn cast

i wish i could post up some shit like that

and its not that i dont care.. i just feel like its wasted breath


i also dont have to type fucked up sequences of sentences


but its wut i do.


sirken you are wrong. sorry if you dont like that fact.

i dont really care.

[k9quaint]

It is far easier to kill all raid mobs on 1 day each week by having the zerg reserve 1 day for gaming. Login in, earn DKP, log out for a week leaving the server a wasteland with zero end game and low pop.

Variance will make that harder to do. So either the zerg will have to play every day in order to lock down every raid mob, or the rest of the server will have a shot at downing raid targets. It raises the difficulty level and expands the end game to include the rest of the server. Of course, the DKP farmers will hate variance because it invalidates their gear spreadsheet timelines.

[heartbrand]

That was really well written Cast, not trolling. Pretty much spot on about everything.

[heartbrand]

Just another argument in favor of variance. nihilum basically has a very small window for VP currently due to their reliance on the older established euro players with gear and keys. If there was variance and they couldn't just knock out all 6 back to back, it would be far more difficult for them to keep VP clear and open up the door for azrael to snipe some of the easier dragons like PD or silverwing

[freez]

It is far easier to kill all raid mobs on 1 day each week by having the zerg reserve 1 day for gaming. Login in, earn DKP, log out for a week leaving the server a wasteland with zero end game and low pop.

Variance will make that harder to do. So either the zerg will have to play every day in order to lock down every raid mob, or the rest of the server will have a shot at downing raid targets. It raises the difficulty level and expands the end game to include the rest of the server. Of course, the DKP farmers will hate variance because it invalidates their gear spreadsheet timelines.

pretty sad we have to break it down for these idiots

10 times a day

wasted effort bro. just sit back and watch the server continue to be a sub 200 sandbox or change the shit the majority is voting for for a real server.

ill get the itch sometime, log in and PL a stranger.. why? no fucking clue. I almost feel like im griefing people by helping them get to max level.

server is that fuckin bad brah

[heartbrand]

No variance leads to less pvp. Most "fights" are stand offs between the two large guilds at the time to see who has more warm bodies and usually no pvp ensues due to the fact that most battles the winner can be predicted based upon numbers / levels alone. With variance and having to scramble a force to a mob, you're far more likely to see skirmishes over mobs. Having said this, I think it would need to be a small window.

On a personal note, I think non variance actually helps my guild. Variance would benefit the smaller guilds or crews.

[DrNarcisse]

Let me make one final point on the subject.

Everyone is focused on comparing variance on blue to how it would work on red. The idea of players having to track mob spawn points is brought up, but no one talks about the PVP implications of it. Nihilum is largely inactive on the server except on their raid days, this gives the advantage to players who are active and playing on the server. To think that Nihilum will be able to track each mob with impunity is so wrong. The active players will be able to remove Nihilium trackers from zones - on Blue99 that is not possible.

Everyone wants to bring up batphones, well for active guilds that won't be an issue: THEY'LL ALREADY BE ONLINE! You know who it's an issue for? A zerg guild that has shown they will only log on when it suits their own needs. The inactive guilds will be the ones needing to batphone. The others who simply play the server will have a chance to mount up and quickly attack raid targets.

In addition, batphones are not instantaneous. They sometimes take many hours to get adequate forces online. So while a zerg guild might find out that a secondary guild is mounting up their entire 20 active guild membership and be able to get 20 players online, the chances that those 20 players from the zerg guild are high quality players and in sink pvp-wise is unlikely. Variance policy change will open the door for actual friends to create guilds and even the playing field (if only for a few hours). The current system even a 20 person guild of friends is forced to recruit additional fodder to come close to competing with a zerg guild. Then because of these issues, the guild falters and everyone points and says "LOOK! ITS PROOF THAT THE SYSTEM WORKS, WE"RE JUST BETTER!", when its so painfully obvious the system does not work and only lends itself to recruiting the most players (not active, just bodies that you can call up and will log on in a 3hour window).

[Retti_]

http://gifatron.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/seinfeld_no_thanks.gif

[Labanen]

With variance and having to scramble a force to a mobno, with variance we will sit there and wait for the mob to spawn for a long time while wanting to slid our wrists and cursing how blue server took over red. But we will still do it as we have the people with the highest playtime on the server.

However in doing so, we will loose members that will burn out due to having to poopsock. Hence we will have to recruit even more fiercely and in doing so the opposition will hurt worse than they currently do, creating a less populated and less fun server for the few survivors.

[DrNarcisse]

no, with variance we will sit there and wait for the mob to spawn for a long time while wanting to slid our wrists and cursing how blue server took over red. But we will still do it as we have the people with the highest playtime on the server.

However in doing so, we will loose members that will burn out due to having to poopsock. Hence we will have to recruit even more fiercely and in doing so the opposition will hurt worse than they currently do, creating a less populated and less fun server for the few survivors.

I just wanted to quote this so you can't edit it further.

I sure do love the strawman argument that says: "Since we [x zerg guild] have to do more work to maintain our 100% raid mob kill rate, many of our members will quit because we will have to spend time competing, then we will try to recruit more, but the server will be less populated because we will have to actually log on for more than 3 hours a week."

The basis for your argument is a double negative. Your members will quit your zerg, so you will recruit more, and somehow that effects the server. A guild that is rarely online because of the current policy is going to lose members/recruit more, and that's supposedly going to make the server less fun for everyone? More like, less fun for you personally (thats the key) and more fun for EVERYONE else. As I've discussed, the reality of the situation is that the policy will make it possible for active guilds of friends to have a fighting chance on any given day, rather than serving up each raid mob to a zerg of inactive players (except the 3 hours when DKP is handed out for showing up).

I don't penalize Nihilum members for feeling this way, it is natural. You've spent over a year under the guise that these server policies were well thought out and you've farmed countless items for probably hundreds of people who've quit your guild (Nihilum being the guild with the highest member turnover ratio in Red99 history by a long shot), and you simply want to continue the trend of logging in each week for a couple of hours until your DKP is at the top of the list and you can spend it on [X SUPER RARE ITEM]. So yeah, I don't blame you guys, I blame Sirken and Nilbog, the only people who can change the system. I can't blame Nihilum because the way it's set up, even if they weren't to exist, someone else would take their spot. The fundamental core of the server has to change, and that is something only the top layer of staff can do.


Also, I'm curious how you'll simply sit there waiting for random mobs to spawn when the windows begin overlapping the hours into days. When one window will have VS, Trak, Sev, Gore, Sky mobs, etc all in the potential window - your plan is that a guild that currently can keep a max of about 3-5 members online EXCEPT during their 3 hour raid days each week, is suddenly going to be tracking all of these mob windows? Mobs that they haven't needed in a year? Of course your members will quit because they will realize how pointless it is when all they care about is loot for themselves, and more guilds will rise up to fight for these mobs. This isn't Blue99, your trackers will be open game. Lets see how well an inactive zerg guild can compete with the active playerbase. There are only so many Nizzars/Tunes/Battles that can track mobs. Think about someone like LittleGyno or any member of <Savage Wolves>, that are now all in Nihilum, trying to fight actual PVPers. It will be laughable, and it will be fun. Exactly what this server needs. Bring on variance!


*edit: I don't want the last comment to make it seem like I think Nizzar/Tune/Battle aren't terrible players --they are--, but compared to someone like LittleGyno they are superstars.

[Pudge]

i guess i think of all these things, just dont type them out. I thought the argument for variance was basically self-explanatory.

but cast actually not trolling and laying out some meaningful points (amidst some other choice words) that i hope GMs take as reasoned "debate" and not write off as flaming on them

[Labanen]

I play almost daily btw. But on euro time.

Yes the fact that the top guild has a higher turnover rate will drain feeder guilds, being as it is with only 2-3 major guilds on the server that means the opposition will suffer alot. This isnt rocket science and follows every argument you made yourself about the route to pixels...

If we have to sit at raid mobs a couple of hours because of variance, we will. But it wont benefit the opposition or the server. It will increase player turnover rates though and i fail to see that as a positive thing.

[DrNarcisse]

I play almost daily btw. But on euro time.

Yes the fact that the top guild has a higher turnover rate will drain feeder guilds, being as it is with only 2-3 major guilds on the server that means the opposition will suffer alot. This isnt rocket science and follows every argument you made yourself about the route to pixels...

No, you're spinning these arguments to fit your agenda. In the current system, the only guilds that suffer are the "opposition", for all the reasons I've already listed about that you conveniently skip over. In a system with variance, the "opposition" will have a fair shake at contesting mobs, not the abortion method that is currently in place where a secondary guild is chastised for not being able to compete against a zerg of 100 roster players with raid mobs in a small window of their choosing.

The "route to pixels" is because of the policy on the server. It will always prop up one guild because the way to rule and control the whole server is through numbers. That is currently (and has been) the only way to compete. There are many changes to that scheme with adding variance, which I've already listed in the 3 prior posts.

If we have to sit at raid mobs a couple of hours because of variance, we will. But it wont benefit the opposition or the server. It will increase player turnover rates though and i fail to see that as a positive thing.

That's a lot of prophesying and I'm extremely curious how you plan on sitting through a 12 hour spawn window if variance is implemented, for every spawn, every week. I'm also curious to watch zerg guilds who try to implement these styles that Blue99 use on a red population and watch their guild fail. You have enormous turnover with the EASIEST raid system in the world, you tell your 100 zerg members to log in for a couple of hours a week and give them DKP and a chance at an item. AND THEY STILL LEAVE IN DROVES! Yet you think you'll have a guild after a month of expecting these people to track spawn points while getting murdered by the active playerbase and while losing raid mobs to new guilds?! Yeah considering you've already burned through the vast majority of players on the server already, I laugh at the thought of you trying to recruit players when you can't even keep players who only have to give up a few hours a week to kill dragons in an assembly line. The only turnover it will increase is YOUR GUILD, which IS A GOOD THING! Anything that gives more power to smaller guilds and less to a single zerg (no matter who they are) is a great thing for the server.

LOL, wishful thinking there tough guy!

[mikemandella]

Cast has a great point! I mean really.. What is the damage in trying this on a few mobs like VS, Trak, ETC for like a month??? I mean this is a emulated server... It's not like its live and any changes could lose paying subscribers...

Cmon Sirken.. First it was simulated patch days.. yah that never happened and that got Lite and all of us to come back and contest.. and we did.

If the community as a whole supports it why not give us variance and see what happens? I can tell you for a fact that a lot of people burn out because they know they will never have a shot at epics when the zerg (and it is a zerg) can just kill everything in 5 hours a week.

On live we had patch days.. There was SOME level of variance...

The reality is the majority of Nihilum have real lives too, just like azrael, just like whoever.. They are able to satiate all pixel lust in 3 - 5 hours and log off for the rest of the week.

You will ENCOURAGE PVP. They may get most mobs, but they will not get them all. They get the mobs now because they have 60 plus drones that all clock in at the same time for DKP day BECAUSE IT IS OVERLY CONVENIENT.

ARE you really telling me if Red Dawn is exping in KC and VS pops they wont be able to get people to attempt it?

Wake up man.. Give the other 70-80pct of the server a voice and a reason to play.

-Oppressor

[Labanen]

That's a lot of prophesying and I'm extremely curious how you plan on sitting through a 12 hour spawn window if variance is implemented, for every spawn, every weeklog on to blue unless it changed since i played there a few years ago, thats excactly what they do. Its not hard or difficult, it is however immensely boring. There will be no "race" to a mob, whichever guild is on top at the time will be there waiting for it.

The only turnover it will increase is YOUR GUILD, which IS A GOOD THING!Well there is your agenda, good that you showed color. I knew it never had to do with helping the server.

However, that only means that Nihilum will recruit harder.... or if the guild collapses, that the next topguild is gonna recruit harder. This is not a good thing, what we really need is a slower player turn over rate on all the server. We need to keep players here while we get more new ones.

[DrNarcisse]

log on to blue unless it changed since i played there a few years ago, thats excactly what they do. Its not hard or difficult, it is however immensely boring. There will be no "race" to a mob, whichever guild is on top at the time will be there waiting for it.

MAN! RED99 IS NOT BLUE99. As much as you guys want it to be by recruiting every breathing thing, they are DIFFERENT SERVERS! I also love how you talk about something being hard or difficult, tell me there Labanen, is it hard to kill a 32k hp mob with 60 players? Is it hard to kill raid mobs in the same order every single week when you have 90% of the playerbase? Is that the difficulty you're talking about? To me, that sounds IMMENSELY boring. Also, how can a guild be "on top" of a raid mob on a PVP server before its spawned? It sure is funny how you talk about racing to mobs, because that's exactly the point. Variance allows smaller guilds (read: not the zerg guild you've had to hide away in for 2 years) to compete and race to mobs before bigger guilds (read: the zerg you've hiding away in for 2 years) can mobilize or "batphone", especially inactive large guilds who currently only play on a designated raid day.

Everything you've tried to argue about is just why variance inconveniences YOU and YOUR guild and how you will go about getting pixels. Have you considered not being selfish? Have you actually thought about how much harm that gigantic zergfest you've been apart of for 2 years has hurt the server? Do you consider other server mechanics and policy regardless if it hurts you personally with outcome? Grow up.

Well there is your agenda, good that you showed color. I knew it never had to do with helping the server.

Wow, quite the over reacher aren't we? It is a very good thing to have policy that promotes smaller guilds rather than a singular zerg guild. Dear god Labanen, I'm a MONSTER for advocating such madness! I should be burned at the stake!

Also heres the entirety of the quote, you seemed to cut off the part where I explicitly tell you why it's a good thing:

"The only turnover it will increase is YOUR GUILD, which IS A GOOD THING! Anything that gives more power to smaller guilds and less to a single zerg (no matter who they are) is a great thing for the server. "

But I'm sure you will find a reason to tell us why having a roster of over 100 players on a server that could barely hit 100 population at peak was a good thing. I'm sure you can rationalize why you've had to hide away in a guild that devours the population in order to stay relevant. I'm sure you're a real good player without 100 people behind you to carry you, or you just sound like a standard nihilum baddie who apparently can't argue himself out of a paper bag either.

However, that only means that Nihilum will recruit harder.... or if the guild collapses, that the next topguild is gonna recruit harder. This is not a good thing, what we really need is a slower player turn over rate on all the server. We need to keep players here while we get more new ones.

Again, my opinion is not anti-Nihilum, but it certainly is anti-Zerg and anti-server policy that promotes zerging. You cannot argue that the current setup of this server promotes power through numbers, it is simply impossible. We've seen over the past 18 months+ that the zerg incumbent has all of the power. Sirken admitted in his quote in this thread, there is 0% chance of winning in PVE or PVP for raid mobs against the zerg. Thats the reason for variance, and maybe Labanen it's because you're eurotrash and English is your second language, but I've explained that fully over the past few replies. You just skip to the parts where you want to inject why it would so bad for you or your current guild, a current guild that has been turned over about a dozen times and gone through hundreds of players on this server. The problem is with how the generic zerg operates and how the server policy strengthens the zerg. You want to slow down player turn over rate, you give players other than the zerg hope in winning PVP and PVE battles. There is simply no offense great enough to take on 90% of the level 60 population that has to log in for a 3 hour window to clear the majority of raid mobs on the server. The only progression is to join the zerg, and that's how Nihilum (or any zerg) recruits. Once the policy changes, yeah, you're going to have a very tough time recruiting considering you've burned through most of the population at least once. Who would want to guild with someone like you Labanen if they weren't forced to be nice just to get some loot?

[Silikten]

less playtime

more visits to the dentist imo

are you the guy that lost to a 59 druid in the best of the best?

you sound mad.

[karsten]

It's good to have gyno inside you

btw holey you're a faggot

[Labanen]

MAN! RED99 IS NOT BLUE99. As much as you guys want it to be by recruiting every breathing thing, they are DIFFERENT SERVERS! And thank god for that. However, the mechanisms for getting mobs with variance are the same. Get a force there that can kill the mob and wait for it, and on this server the force also needs to be able to fend of any other guilds who should decide to drop by.

I also love how you talk about something being hard or difficult, tell me there Labanen, is it hard to kill a 32k hp mob with 60 players? Is it hard to kill raid mobs in the same order every single week when you have 90% of the playerbase? Is that the difficulty you're talking about? To me, that sounds IMMENSELY boring.Read what i wrote again, you seem to have missed my point. I said poopsocking is not difficult, its boring. I didnt thereby say that other parts of EQ is hard or difficult. We dont have 90 % of the playerbase btw. Red Dawn fielded 50 for plane of Fear last week. We havent had 50 for a raid since the first CT kill i think.

Also, how can a guild be "on top" of a raid mob on a PVP server before its spawned?Port in a couple of groups and wait for it to pop.

It sure is funny how you talk about racing to mobs, because that's exactly the point. Variance allows smaller guilds (read: not the zerg guild you've had to hide away in for 2 years) to compete and race to mobs before bigger guilds (read: the zerg you've hiding away in for 2 years) can mobilize or "batphone", especially inactive large guilds who currently only play on a designated raid day. There will be no race, although Stasis is right that in order to poopsock the mobs they will have to be spread out over the week, depending on how big a variance we're talking about.

Everything you've tried to argue about is just why variance inconveniences YOU and YOUR guild and how you will go about getting pixels. Have you considered not being selfish? Have you actually thought about how much harm that gigantic zergfest you've been apart of for 2 years has hurt the server? Do you consider other server mechanics and policy regardless if it hurts you personally with outcome? Grow up. No everything i argue is what *any* top guild will have to do in order to remain top guild, and how that in turn will affect the server. I do however foresee that in the near future Nihilum will remain the top guild, so yeah i spoke from our point of view. It doesnt matter who is top guild though, there is always gonna be one.
I have thought about how my own impact is on the server, and i do try to help players where i can, i certainly dont consider myself selfish, others can be the judge of that, you however cannot as you dont know me.


Wow, quite the over reacher aren't we? It is a very good thing to have policy that promotes smaller guilds rather than a singular zerg guild. Dear god Labanen, I'm a MONSTER for advocating such madness! I should be burned at the stake! Yes, more guilds will help the server, variance however will not help that development. You dont have to be burned, take it easy ;-)

"The only turnover it will increase is YOUR GUILD, which IS A GOOD THING! Anything that gives more power to smaller guilds and less to a single zerg (no matter who they are) is a great thing for the server. " This has been covered a number of times already, i told you why i disagree with you on this.

But I'm sure you will find a reason to tell us why having a roster of over 100 players on a server that could barely hit 100 population at peak was a good thing. our roster includes alot of people that no longer plays, alts, etc. we tend to raid with everything between 20 and 40 people, which is roughly what we need for VP. So cant really cut the roster lower. Variance will require us to sit at a spawn for along time waiting, few will want to do that for the entirety of the spawn window i assume so its likely to force us to recruit a bit more to actually have enough for the mobs and/or pvp. This is speculating though.

I'm sure you can rationalize why you've had to hide away in a guild that devours the population in order to stay relevant. I'm sure you're a real good player without 100 people behind you to carry you, or you just sound like a standard nihilum baddie who apparently can't argue himself out of a paper bag either.I played with a group of friends back in <Ocean of Tears>, when that collapsed i moved to Nihilum as it formed right after and a few members from oot was in there. Through my time here i made alot of friends in that guild and i intend to play with them until i stop playing. Had i joined holocaust instead i would prolly still carry that tag around... i dont agree well with Checkraise and i dont know Lite, so i dont have a reason to be anywhere else either.

Again, my opinion is not anti-Nihilum, but it certainly is anti-Zerg and anti-server policy that promotes zerging. You cannot argue that the current setup of this server promotes power through numbers, it is simply impossible. We've seen over the past 18 months+ that the zerg incumbent has all of the power. Sirken admitted in his quote in this thread, there is 0% chance of winning in PVE or PVP for raid mobs against the zerg. Thats the reason for variance, and maybe Labanen it's because you're eurotrash and English is your second language, but I've explained that fully over the past few replies. You just skip to the parts where you want to inject why it would so bad for you or your current guild, a current guild that has been turned over about a dozen times and gone through hundreds of players on this server. The problem is with how the generic zerg operates and how the server policy strengthens the zerg. You want to slow down player turn over rate, you give players other than the zerg hope in winning PVP and PVE battles. There is simply no offense great enough to take on 90% of the level 60 population that has to log in for a 3 hour window to clear the majority of raid mobs on the server. The only progression is to join the zerg, and that's how Nihilum (or any zerg) recruits. Once the policy changes, yeah, you're going to have a very tough time recruiting considering you've burned through most of the population at least once. Who would want to guild with someone like you Labanen if they weren't forced to be nice just to get some loot?I could imagine worse things than being guilded with someone like me... and apperently so can alot others.

[Labanen]

ARE you really telling me if Red Dawn is exping in KC and VS pops they wont be able to get people to attempt it?No i am telling you that if VS is due we will be in there, not a RD xp crew.[/QUOTE]

Wake up man.. Give the other 70-80pct of the server a voice and a reason to play.

-Oppressori thought we were 90 % of the server ;-)

[Twainz]

Red Dawn fielded 50 for plane of Fear last week. We havent had 50 for a raid since the first CT kill i think.

You obviously don't go to anything but Dragon Days. Nihilum has brought 50+ to 2 trakanons in the last month. I logged on Mellowyellow at the ledge to 54 Nihilum in zone.

[Twainz]

So Ruban, here is the question. If 2 mobs are in window to spawn, where is this "force" of magically logged on Nihilum characters going to sit when Inny and Trakanon are both due to spawn? Say you decide to go after Trakanon because you can just port to Hate. Inny spawns first but there a 50 Red Dawn clearing Hate already. You don't know this because your force is at trakanon. For some reason, a spy tells you Inny just spawned. You prepare to port the group you have in trak to hate to try and kill 50 people with whatever force you can muster in 20-30 minutes. We will say you bring 30 people. You port those people up and the PvP begins. But what you missed was that Trakanon just spawn as you ported out and Azrael knows this. Azrael moves there forces to sebilis and snipes trak while you are fighting in Plane of Hate. You can't just port to sebilis and clear down in time. Azrael snipes trak and you either get Inny or Red Dawn does. Hell, you could even lose both mobs.

Go

[Ryko]

So Ruban, here is the question. If 2 mobs are in window to spawn, where is this "force" of magically logged on Nihilum characters going to sit when Inny and Trakanon are both due to spawn? Say you decide to go after Trakanon because you can just port to Hate. Inny spawns first but there a 50 Red Dawn clearing Hate already. You don't know this because your force is at trakanon. For some reason, a spy tells you Inny just spawned. You prepare to port the group you have in trak to hate to try and kill 50 people with whatever force you can muster in 20-30 minutes. We will say you bring 30 people. You port those people up and the PvP begins. But what you missed was that Trakanon just spawn as you ported out and Azrael knows this. Azrael moves there forces to sebilis and snipes trak while you are fighting in Plane of Hate. You can't just port to sebilis and clear down in time. Azrael snipes trak and you either get Inny or Red Dawn does. Hell, you could even lose both mobs.

Go

The whole argument summed up... This may never happen... But in the immortal words of Lloyd Christmas " So you're saying I have a chance" if variance exists.

If no variance: the same old Tuesdays.

One more quote that Cast keyed in on ... The definition of insanity: " to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result"

[heartbrand]

The whole argument summed up... This may never happen... But in the immortal words of Lloyd Christmas " So you're saying I have a chance" if variance exists.

If no variance: the same old Tuesdays.

One more quote that Cast keyed in on ... The definition of insanity: " to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result"

Also no point arguing with labanen aka ruban, the guy also legitimately believes that nihilum never exploited nagafen despite everyone including Hughman the tank knowing we did, believes that every member is a innocent saint despite being guilded with RMTers / boxers / MQers etc. His white knighting knows no bounds.

Variance will save this server.

[Nirgon]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/foto12/500Flipping-Through-Book.gif


METH


http://www.meth-kills.org/images/meth-overdose.jpg

[Labanen]

The whole argument summed up... This may never happen... No it will happen for sure. each time the server resets and the timers are on top of each other. This has happened how many times in the last 6 months ? 1 ? 2 ? not 100 % sure it could be more really, but its not very common.

As Stasis argues elsewhere variance will require a guild who wants to kill raid mobs, to spread them out over the week to avoid that scenario.

[Twainz]

No it will happen for sure. each time the server resets and the timers are on top of each other. This has happened how many times in the last 6 months ? 1 ? 2 ? not 100 % sure it could be more really, but its not very common.

As Stasis argues elsewhere variance will require a guild who wants to kill raid mobs, to spread them out over the week to avoid that scenario.

Avoiding my post. Typical of Nihilum not to respond to things they cannot defend.

[Retti_]

Try harder

[Labanen]

Avoiding my post. Typical of Nihilum not to respond to things they cannot defend.
I replied to it, you have a point, i then explained why i think it will be a rare situation, Chill Twain :-)

[heartbrand]

Today's a perfect example of Variance. List cut short for Red Dawn members, 0 Nihilum currently on. If we were exping in KC and VS popped right now, we could down him in < 15 minutes.

[Labanen]

Nihilum on alts and no reason to kick RD out of KC cause VS is not due...

[heartbrand]

But with variance you will have multiple mobs due. What if VS pops and meanwhile sev pops? You won't be able to have 20-25 man midday bat phone crew protect both mobs simultaneously. And that's the entire point it gives us other guilds a shot. With the current system every mob is spaced perfectly with no overlap and you just now them down with an uncontestable 50+ raid force of mainly level 60's.

[heartbrand]

P.s I was there at almost every ragefire this time of day when it was variance. We got like 14-18 people max to the call of the bat phone. Right now that size would get out numbered and beaten by the other guilds on who actually play on the server.

[Labanen]

I realize what the point is. But i think it will turn into a poopsock festival like blue server where we will spread out the mobs to avoid overlapping spawnwindows, and have to waste alot of time at a mobs spawn point. Obviously you could just wait for Velious where too many targets exists to be controlled by one guild to get your sniping prices... i cant imagine that you wont be some targets at that point, with the current system.

[Labanen]

The ragefire situation is not really comparable, there were no threat to us at that time if we had 2 groups there for it. So people didnt have to get there, and alot of the time it wasnt even batphoned.

[heartbrand]

I don't think you get it. You can't poopsock on red because it's a pvp server. We can attack your trackers. You can't do that on blue. This point seems lost on you.

[DrNarcisse]

You know, I had a long post typed out again and it got deleted, so I'll just keep it short, besides you seem to just gloss over anything you feel hurts your argument.


I realize what the point is. But i think it will turn into a poopsock festival like blue server where we will spread out the mobs to avoid overlapping spawnwindows, and have to waste alot of time at a mobs spawn point. Obviously you could just wait for Velious where too many targets exists to be controlled by one guild to get your sniping prices... i cant imagine that you wont be some targets at that point, with the current system.


Red99 is not blue99. There aren't 900 players online, you have a very small amount of level 60s comparatively, and the majority are in Nihilum simply because the current system does not allow competiion. The only variable under the current server policy is number of players, which means one zerg rules EVERYTHING, like Sirken said with 0% chance of anyone else winning in PVE or PVP. The only argument you seem to be making is that YOUR GUILD will have to start "poopsocking" like Blue99. The part you seem to ignore is that your guild can't even get players online unless its to raid 3 hours a week for DKP. Even with that system you have a DISGUSTING turnover ratio. Think about it! Variance goes in and you start having people sit for TWELVE STRAIGHT HOURS in multiple groups waiting for SINGLE SPAWNS, and you'll have 5 people left in your guild after a week (Nizzar, Tune, Battle, Ruban, Ender, the only people sick enough to do that).

Variance allows ACTIVE guids to compete for mobs they would NEVER get a crack at under the current system. Under the current system (it doesn't matter what the guild name is) one zerg rules EVERYTHING. Do I have to keep explaining this to you? The only thing that matters is numbers! And it sure is easy to get numbers and recruit more numbers when all you have to do is log in 3 hours a week to collect your paycheck. You're shaking in your little booties because if variance gets put in, the overzealous zergs will CRUMBLE. No one in your guild is going to sit through entire 12 hour spawn timers for EVERY MOB IN THE GAME EVERY SINGLE WEEK! You simply cannot "poopsock" all of them mobs you currently kill with impunity. You will have to choose and focus on a small amount of mobs instead of controlling them all in one day of raiding. This opens it up for active guilds who can mobilize fast (because they actually play the game) and kill mobs like Fayd or Gore, etc. These mobs take 20-25 players to kill, you bring 60+ because your whole guild roster logs in for 3 hours and then logs off. There are other guilds that field 20 players on a given day who have no opportunity at raid mobs. Variance solves this. If you want to kill 100% of the mobs, then earn it. The current system "earning" it means recruiting the most players and giving any secondary guild 0% chance at PVE or PVP because numbers = everything.

If you can't see this then you are hopeless. You're very fucking selfish to think the current system is good. Also can you tell me WHY you have to poopsock if variance gets put in? Why couldn't you just have people log in later that night to kill a mob that spawns? Oh because you know that variance will open mobs up to competition and that scares you.

[Retti_]

You know, I had a long post typed out again and it got deleted, so I'll just keep it short





Red99 is not blue99. There aren't 900 players online, you have a very small amount of level 60s comparatively, and the majority are in Nihilum simply because the current system does not allow competiion. The only variable under the current server policy is number of players, which means one zerg rules EVERYTHING, like Sirken said with 0% chance of anyone else winning in PVE or PVP. The only argument you seem to be making is that YOUR GUILD will have to start "poopsocking" like Blue99. The part you seem to ignore is that your guild can't even get players online unless its to raid 3 hours a week for DKP. Even with that system you have a DISGUSTING turnover ratio. Think about it! Variance goes in and you start having people sit for TWELVE STRAIGHT HOURS in multiple groups waiting for SINGLE SPAWNS, and you'll have 5 people left in your guild after a week (Nizzar, Tune, Battle, Ruban, Ender, the only people sick enough to do that).

Variance allows ACTIVE guids to compete for mobs they would NEVER get a crack at under the current system. Under the current system (it doesn't matter what the guild name is) one zerg rules EVERYTHING. Do I have to keep explaining this to you? The only thing that matters is numbers! And it sure is easy to get numbers and recruit more numbers when all you have to do is log in 3 hours a week to collect your paycheck. You're shaking in your little booties because if variance gets put in, the overzealous zergs will CRUMBLE. No one in your guild is going to sit through entire 12 hour spawn timers for EVERY MOB IN THE GAME EVERY SINGLE WEEK! You simply cannot "poopsock" all of them mobs you currently kill with impunity. You will have to choose and focus on a small amount of mobs instead of controlling them all in one day of raiding. This opens it up for active guilds who can mobilize fast (because they actually play the game) and kill mobs like Fayd or Gore, etc. These mobs take 20-25 players to kill, you bring 60+ because your whole guild roster logs in for 3 hours and then logs off. There are other guilds that field 20 players on a given day who have no opportunity at raid mobs. Variance solves this. If you want to kill 100% of the mobs, then earn it. The current system "earning" it means recruiting the most players and giving any secondary guild 0% chance at PVE or PVP because numbers = everything.

If you can't see this then you are hopeless. You're very fucking selfish to think the current system is good. Also can you tell me WHY you have to poopsock if variance gets put in? Oh because YOULL HAVE COMPETITION! And that DEBUNKS EVERYTHING YOU SAY. FUCK YOU!

[Retti_]

You know, I had a long post typed out again and it got deleted, so I'll just keep it short

[DrNarcisse]

Retti, it's 500 words. I type like 150wpm, that took about 3 minutes to type. Grow up and get a job or something you mexicant.

[Retti_]

CAN.

[Tune]

should probably close this thread until u guys can get ONE (1) mob on a full repop day where there are 8+ at the same time

i dont want to hear shit about variance until this happens

[heartbrand]

Variance is inc

[DrNarcisse]

should probably close this thread until u guys can get ONE (1) mob on a full repop day where there are 8+ at the same time

i dont want to hear shit about variance until this happens

STRAWMAN ARGUMENT!

Hurdur, you can't compete with us on a patch repop day that means variance won't work! We only have 60 level 60s logged in and every mob is up. A repop day has NOTHING to do with variance, in fact thats the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of variance. That's the whole point, no one can compete with 60 players, but with variance you can't log in 60 players for every single mob if it has a 12 hour spawn window that pushes mobs at odd hours throughout every day of the week, but you sure can when EVERY SINGLE MOB IS UP on a SINGLE DAY!

You can't even keep 5 players online unless its a raid day, but you strawman an argument and claim variance doesn't work because on a day that has absolutely NO VARIANCE and you're able to log in over half the server population, that suddenly proves every argument wrong. LOL! Another Nihilum shaking in their booties.

[Tune]

u guys want pixels but u don't even try, just want shit handed to u , is why u joined Nihilum

now you are trolling the gms yet again

[Tune]

random repop is just like varience are u high?

[Labanen]

I don't think you get it. You can't poopsock on red because it's a pvp server. We can attack your trackers. You can't do that on blue. This point seems lost on you.is that what you thought poopsocking was ? send a tracker and then batphone when it pops ? ok then...

[heartbrand]

The classic why don't you bring your 30 lowbies to contest our 50+ level 60s in VP gear hehehehhe

[DrNarcisse]

u guys want pixels but u don't even try, just want shit handed to u , is why u joined Nihilum

now you are trolling the gms yet again

WRONG! You want items handed to you! You don't want to earn these items. You feel that because you can recruit 90% of the level 60 population that you are ENTITLED to killing these mobs in a 3 hour window OF YOUR CHOSING every week and chastising an opposition that can't mount an offense great enough to break that window.

With variance, you will have to prove you can earn to kill Faydader every single week when you don't need it. Lets see how many of your members are willing to log in and kill it for items they don't need just to grief upcoming guilds. Ruban claims you guys will be able to poopsock every single spawn over 12 hour spawn windows throughout random hours and every day of the week, lol I think we both know what is going to happen to any zerg that tries to get players on Red99 to do it. This isn't Blue99 dog.

[Tune]

STRAWMAN ARGUMENT!

Hurdur, you can't compete with us on a patch repop day that means variance won't work! We only have 60 level 60s logged in and every mob is up. A repop day has NOTHING to do with variance, in fact thats the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of variance. That's the whole point, no one can compete with 60 players, but with variance you can't log in 60 players for every single mob if it has a 12 hour spawn window that pushes mobs at odd hours throughout every day of the week, but you sure can when EVERY SINGLE MOB IS UP on a SINGLE DAY!

You can't even keep 5 players online unless its a raid day, but you strawman an argument and claim variance doesn't work because on a day that has absolutely NO VARIANCE and you're able to log in over half the server population, that suddenly proves every argument wrong. LOL! Another Nihilum shaking in their booties.

U can compete with 60 easily .... there are 8 targets up at the ssame time are u stupid?

[heartbrand]

As shown by my 50+ logs in the other thread they aren't up at the same time they're spaced perfectly to be knocked down in order

[Tune]

how am i going to kill 8 things with 60 people scattered through-out the world at the same time... waiting to hear the logic on this 1

[DrNarcisse]

random repop is just like varience are u high?

How is a repop day like variance? EVERY SINGLE SPAWN IS UP! All you have to do is log in more numbers and you win every single spawn, just like non variance. Then the following week you log in all 60 players again and kill them all at the exact same time. Sure sounds like non variance to me!

Variance is when faydader spawns at 2am on a wednesday, gore 8pm on a thursday, vs spawns 1pm on a friday, trak spawns sunday at 5pm, ETC! Keep listing em! A repop day is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE OF THIS YOU TWERP!

[Tune]

As shown by my 50+ logs in the other thread they aren't up at the same time they're spaced perfectly to be knocked down in order

this is on a random repop day ... l2read

[heartbrand]

Also notice how their definition of competing is sniping mobs with zero pvp. Variance would result in multiple guilds scrambling with fun and exciting unpredictable pvp skirmishes

[heartbrand]

this is on a random repop day ... l2read

Guys don't worry the server is fine there's four to five Repops a year and you might be able to snipe one mob each time, so everything is a ok alright?

[Retti_]

Or kill the ones nihilum isn't at at same time which breaks the rotation.

Theoretically opposition can take 50% without ever pvping

[DrNarcisse]

U can compete with 60 easily .... there are 8 targets up at the ssame time are u stupid?

No one can COMPETE WITH YOUR 60 level 60s, stop spinning. The current system is set up for one zerg to rule them all. Variance is going to allow secondary guilds to capture unwanted raid mobs that the zerg only kills because its SO FUCKING EASY to add another mob to their 3 hour kill window and to impede others.

[hagard]

im confused how 8 boss mobs can spawn at the same exact time???????????

[DrNarcisse]

how am i going to kill 8 things with 60 people scattered through-out the world at the same time... waiting to hear the logic on this 1

Because you have 60 players. It takes 20 to kill these mobs, so you have 40 left to kill any competition. Even Sirken noted that there is ZERO PERCENT CHANCE to beat the zerg in PVE or PVP given the current system. It's not because you are good players, hint: it's because you have so many fucking people. It's really easy to log in 60 players when you can knock down every single mob in a 3 hour window. Now try logging in those same 60 every single day at random hours to "poopsock" these mobs you haven't need for a year. We'll see how many people in Nihilum are willing to do that, you can barely keep enough recruits coming in given your current system which only has them logging in 3 hours a week, lol. Good luck when you tell them to wait out a 12 hour random spawn for a mob no one needs!

[Tune]

WRONG! You want items handed to you! You don't want to earn these items. You feel that because you can recruit 90% of the level 60 population that you are ENTITLED to killing these mobs in a 3 hour window OF YOUR CHOSING every week and chastising an opposition that can't mount an offense great enough to break that window.

With variance, you will have to prove you can earn to kill Faydader every single week when you don't need it. Lets see how many of your members are willing to log in and kill it for items they don't need just to grief upcoming guilds. Ruban claims you guys will be able to poopsock every single spawn over 12 hour spawn windows throughout random hours and every day of the week, lol I think we both know what is going to happen to any zerg that tries to get players on Red99 to do it. This isn't Blue99 dog.

I think u don't know me bud. My guild is the reason i play this game. I worked hard since the beginning making relationships, building it from the ground up. I've geared so many people and have seen so many go its rediculous. I do this because It's a team game, and quite frankly I want the best team. If you had 1/10 of this motivation you would succeed too.

[Retti_]

Repop > take 50% without pvping, force same time repop following week and skew timers further and further. Pvp and disrupt other mobs breaking rotation more and more. Maybe just maybe.

[Colgate]

those meaningful everquest relationships

jesus your life must be awful

[DrNarcisse]

im confused how 8 boss mobs can spawn at the same exact time???????????

Dude hagard didn't you know, when all the mobs on the server spawn at the same time thats called variance. HURDUR! Tune just proved us all wrong what we're we thinking! Lets go back to the system where all the mobs spawn at the same time every single week and allow 60 pathetic losers to zerg up and kill them without competition.


...oh wait.

[heartbrand]

Variance IS coming to red so no point fighting with selfish people on forums about it

[Tune]

Because you have 60 players. It takes 20 to kill these mobs, so you have 40 left to kill any competition. Even Sirken noted that there is ZERO PERCENT CHANCE to beat the zerg in PVE or PVP given the current system. It's not because you are good players, hint: it's because you have so many fucking people. It's really easy to log in 60 players when you can knock down every single mob in a 3 hour window. Now try logging in those same 60 every single day at random hours to "poopsock" these mobs you haven't need for a year. We'll see how many people in Nihilum are willing to do that, you can barely keep enough recruits coming in given your current system which only has them logging in 3 hours a week, lol. Good luck when you tell them to wait out a 12 hour random spawn for a mob no one needs!

this scenario where we have divided our force has never happend. nice try again

[heartbrand]

Because there has been zero competition and need for it under the current system holy fuck you're dumb

[DrNarcisse]

I think u don't know me bud. My guild is the reason i play this game. I worked hard since the beginning making relationships, building it from the ground up. I've geared so many people and have seen so many go its rediculous. I do this because It's a team game, and quite frankly I want the best team. If you had 1/10 of this motivation you would succeed too.

and have seen so many go its rediculous.
and have seen so many go its rediculous.
and have seen so many go its rediculous.

Yeah and whats gonna happen when like Ruban says, you guys tell your members they have to poopsock every raid mob in the game during 12 hour spawn windows when variance gets put in? Oh that's right, even more are going to go. Because all these "relationships" you're building in game are simply people riding out the zerg because theres no other way to compete. You're so blind that you can't admit it. You think you are actually skillful players being able to log in 90% of the level 60 population and kill everything in 3 hours. Those "relationships" people don't give a SHIT about you. You'll see just how fast people jump ship from the zerg incumbent to start their own thing/guild with real friends when it isn't necessary to be in the zerg to get pixels.

[heartbrand]

Again variance is inc we will see what happens

[DrNarcisse]

this scenario where we have divided our force has never happend. nice try again

Because there's been less than 10 repops since server inception. Funny how you try to call that "variance". Variance is EVERY MOB, EVERY WEEK. Good luck fielding 60 players on a monday at 4am when faydader spawns, an active guild with 20 members now has a chance at killing it. You're just proving the point FOR variance, so thanks.

[Tune]

those meaningful everquest relationships

jesus your life must be awful

yes its just a game man,

but it still reflects a little bit of personal character how you carry yourself

i agree its not as meaningful as a RL relationship but it still means something

[Labanen]

im confused how 8 boss mobs can spawn at the same exact time???????????that happens each time the server is reset. Tunes argument is that we have killed all of them every time there was a reset even though each encounter takes time and any opposition could walk up and grab any of them bar the one we re currently engaging and take it without a fight.

Yet, the variance that may mean 2-3 mobs THEORECTICALLY could spawn at the same time should for some reason mean that smaller guilds get a much bigger chance... different line of arguments than my own, true and fun all the same :p

[Colgate]

yes its just a game man,

but it still reflects a little bit of personal character how you carry yourself

i agree its not as meaningful as a RL relationship but it still means something

says the guy who stripped beovvulf because he gave items to rettiwalk

[DrNarcisse]

that happens each time the server is reset. Tunes argument is that we have killed all of them every time there was a reset even though each encounter takes time and any opposition could walk up and grab any of them bar the one we re currently engaging and take it without a fight.

Yet, the variance that may mean 2-3 mobs THEORECTICALLY could spawn at the same time should for some reason mean that smaller guilds get a much bigger chance... different line of arguments than my own, true and fun all the same :p

Yeah, but tune's argument is wrong. Repop days are not variance, they are the definition of non variance. He's also very misguided in thinking that past successes/failures by small opposing forces are meaningful when the policy has been non variance. You need to be worried about the future guilds/uprisings, not the past ones that were unsuccessul for millions of possible reasons. Variance allows competition, non variance allows a zerg to monopolize everything. We have 18 months of empirical data, so while Nihilum members seem to think there was skill involved, its just simple server policy that has allowed you to keep your place. If it wasn't you, it'd be another guild. That's why I blame Nilbog and Sirken, they are the only ones who can change the course of the server.

[Nizzarr]

I heard you cant even everquest, why are you even forumquesting?

It seems like the nihilum dick went as deep in cast's asshole as the horse dick did in Mr. Hands' ass. It created a gaping internal bleeding wound that will never close, leading to this bleeding diarrhea that cast regurgitate on the forums.

It's ok cast, maybe the wound will close if you get to be the first 50 on the team server.

[Nirgon]

Like the DAWG would ever let variance happen here.

You dunno how things work around here, Roach.

[DrNarcisse]

I heard you cant even everquest, why are you even forumquesting?

It seems like the nihilum dick went as deep in cast's asshole as the horse dick did in Mr. Hands' ass. It created a gaping internal bleeding wound that will never close, leading to this bleeding diarrhea that cast regurgitate on the forums.

It's ok cast, maybe the wound will close if you get to be the first 50 on the team server.

Still waiting for a singular reason that variance is bad for the SERVER (and not your guild). Still... waiting.

Also, still waiting for Sirken to reply to my reply to him. I know he's been watching the thread, I can only hope he's having GM discussions on the staff board and not purposely ignoring an argument he can't win against me for the sake of his pride. He needs to be the lead player advocate and not worry about when he's wrong!

Variance!

[Retti_]

Velious b4 variance

Science

[DrNarcisse]

Velious b4 variance

Science

Look at how selfish every single member of Nihilum is. They would rather have a broken system so long as they can keep abusing it in another expansion pack. Not even trolling, it's disgusting watching you guys post and defend non variance. Stop being so short sighted and think about the longer term fun with additional guilds and pvping it will bring. Instead you strictly worry about your DKP ranking on a zerg that feels entitled to 100% of the spawns on the server because the system gives them ultimate power in numbers.

[HippoNipple]

Variance isn't something that would take away from the development of Velious.

How are Cast's threads/posts deleted but Nizzarr is aloud to post that trash about assholes? Disgusting.

[DrNarcisse]

Yep just noticed they deleted the other thread with more proof for why variance is better and Nihilum strawman argument getting shit on. Would love to know who deleted it and why no staff has even taken the time to respond to my replies in this thread. Couldn't even move it into RNF, someone is trying to stop the variance movement. Can Arzak <Nihilum> modify posts?

[Tune]

1 mob bro

put all this forumquesting into effort i game and ill listen to u

dont give me escuses about zerg or times. you are doing nothing but trolling and have 0 motivation.

there are plenty of ways you can contest. you are just too lazy or stupid to think of them. unfortunately its not my job to coach u..

that 0 motivation will do dick for you when variance is put it

if you were working your balls off and still not getting anywhere i would have sympathy.

right now you only look like a _____ trying to get a wellfare check

[Retti_]

Coach? More like SOCCER MOM, go get me more orange slices and caprisuns AMIRITE?

[DrNarcisse]

1 mob bro

put all this forumquesting into effort i game and ill listen to u

dont give me escuses about zerg or times. you are doing nothing but trolling and have 0 motivation.

there are plenty of ways you can contest. you are just too lazy or stupid to think of them. unfortunately its not my job to coach u..

that 0 motivation will do dick for you when variance is put it

if you were working your balls off and still not getting anywhere i would have sympathy.

right now you only look like a _____ trying to get a wellfare check

Quoting this so no edits.

You keep using strawman to argue why variance is bad, but you don't ever say why variance is bad, nor do you say why non variance is good. You just tell players their opinions only matter if they can kill a raid mob that are under complete control of the zerg incumbent guild (with a roster of 100 players on a 150 pop server) that is expressly enabled by the server policy on the server.

You feel entitled to killing every raid mob in game in 3 hours because you've recruited 100 lemmings. This is always how the server will operate given the policy of non variance, one zerg to rule them all. Variance, when its enabled, will force the zerg incumbent to earn each and every kill. No longer will they get free impunity at farming every mob from Trakanon down to Faydader in a 3 hour window and claim the competition is just bad for not being able to compete in that scenario. You will log in just like everyone else during the week and kill mobs that spawn, we'll see how long your members are willing to log in for faydader batphones when the last time someone used an item off of it must have been a year ago.

Bring on variance, or at least a decent argument! Can't any Nihilum think of one positive thing about non variance? Also its a little peculiar that everyone seems to agree that I'm making very obvious and good points. You are quick to tell me I'm just trolling, I wonder whose wrong and being selfish in this scenario :(

[Labanen]

everyone seems to agree that I'm making very obvious and good points.naw.

[DrNarcisse]

naw.

Yeah a Nihilum diehard member whose only argument against variance was that his guild would be forced to log on and contest raid mobs against raid capable guilds. Here's a hint: you don't need to be a 100 person guild to kill Faydader in EQ. Many more guilds would be created and players would come back if the staff would unchain the end game and allow people to contest. The current system doesn't work! It strengthens the zerg, who by their nature are already incredibly strong. It also gives the zerg members like the person above a strong entitlement that they are incredibly skillful for what they are doing, over running 32k hp mobs with 3x the amount of players needed and then patting themselves on the back when they also over run some smalltime competition. Grow up and stop being selfish!

Variance for christmas! lets do this SIRKEN!

[Retti_]

Velious 4 christmas pras winter cometh.

http://cdn2.purseblog.com/images/2012/11/Reese-Witherspoon-Louis-Vuitton.jpg

[HippoNipple]

All arguments aside it is at least entertaining to see how much smarter Cast is than all the Nihilum members, whose posts consist of nahs, mads, bads, lawls, other scum slang and crappy pictures.

[Tiladas]

Haven't seen one good argument against drnarc, I didn't have any opinions on the pros/cons of variance until these threads. The disparity in debate is damning.

[jeffd]

All arguments aside it is at least entertaining to see how much smarter Cast is than all the Nihilum members

tbqh did not see that 1 coming

[hagard]

that happens each time the server is reset. Tunes argument is that we have killed all of them every time there was a reset even though each encounter takes time and any opposition could walk up and grab any of them bar the one we re currently engaging and take it without a fight.

Yet, the variance that may mean 2-3 mobs THEORECTICALLY could spawn at the same time should for some reason mean that smaller guilds get a much bigger chance... different line of arguments than my own, true and fun all the same :p

So are you saying there is a server reset every week? Because if not mobs would re spawn staggered. Meaning all 8 wouldn't be up at the same time

[DrNarcisse]

So Ruban, here is the question. If 2 mobs are in window to spawn, where is this "force" of magically logged on Nihilum characters going to sit when Inny and Trakanon are both due to spawn? Say you decide to go after Trakanon because you can just port to Hate. Inny spawns first but there a 50 Red Dawn clearing Hate already. You don't know this because your force is at trakanon. For some reason, a spy tells you Inny just spawned. You prepare to port the group you have in trak to hate to try and kill 50 people with whatever force you can muster in 20-30 minutes. We will say you bring 30 people. You port those people up and the PvP begins. But what you missed was that Trakanon just spawn as you ported out and Azrael knows this. Azrael moves there forces to sebilis and snipes trak while you are fighting in Plane of Hate. You can't just port to sebilis and clear down in time. Azrael snipes trak and you either get Inny or Red Dawn does. Hell, you could even lose both mobs.

Go

You know, reading back over some of the thread, I wanted to highlight this post by Twainz, a reformed <Nihilum> member himself. This is what a PVP server should be about. 3+ raid potential guilds all making moves for multiple raid mobs in a variable spawn window. Will this ever occur if variance is put in? I don't know. I can't say for sure, but isn't it a really interesting situation? Isn't it a much more interesting situation than 60+ poor souls who log in on every Sunday at 1pm, their preferred spawn window, and proceed to mow down almost every raid mob (most of which they don't even get items they use) in a span of 3 hours and log for the other 165 hours of the week? Of course it is. And there are many other great scenarios that can be dreamt up with variance, but what we do know conclusively with 18 months of data is that non variance server policy strengthens the zerg and as Sirken said:

in regards to the current non variance system, as an outsider looking in, it really doesn't look fun. all the mobs are slewn on the same day of the week by a force that clearly outnumbers all other competitive forces, leaving zero chance for merbs and while theres pvp, i imagine it's very one sided.

It gives no possibility for competition in PVP or PVE. Sounds like a bad policy that should be changed asap!

[DrNarcisse]

So are you saying there is a server reset every week? Because if not mobs would re spawn staggered. Meaning all 8 wouldn't be up at the same time

Yep, just another distraction / strawman argument to deflect from the real argument. This strawman is incredibly funny because it just proves how broken non variance spawning system is and that Tune believes it to actually be how a variance system would work. Every single mob in the game is up, they are the zerg incumbent guild with ease of producing staggering amounts of players to contend, and then they chastise the rest of the server for (get this) not being able to contend.

[Nirgon]

My face when The Dawg is erasing your threads

http://www.nottadog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/laughing-dog.jpg

[Instagib]

Coach going hard in the paint for variance

[Retti_]

So Ruban, here is the question. If 2 mobs are in window to spawn, where is this "force" of magically logged on Nihilum characters going to sit when Inny and Trakanon are both due to spawn? Say you decide to go after Trakanon because you can just port to Hate. Inny spawns first but there a 50 Red Dawn clearing Hate already. You don't know this because your force is at trakanon. For some reason, a spy tells you Inny just spawned. You prepare to port the group you have in trak to hate to try and kill 50 people with whatever force you can muster in 20-30 minutes. We will say you bring 30 people. You port those people up and the PvP begins. But what you missed was that Trakanon just spawn as you ported out and Azrael knows this. Azrael moves there forces to sebilis and snipes trak while you are fighting in Plane of Hate. You can't just port to sebilis and clear down in time. Azrael snipes trak and you either get Inny or Red Dawn does. Hell, you could even lose both mobs.

Go

SOUNDS LIKE A STORY BUILT ON THE FOUNDATION OF HAY

-- reality --

Nihilum wins Inny, and since Azrael take 2 hours to get 10 people logged in after a bat phone (of which 4 can port themselves, 3 are on Lite's computer, and the other 3 are in 3 seperate locations and require Lite to box Cheeseycakes for pickup), they get Trak also.

http://www.kids-pages.com/folders/puzzles/The_Three_Little_Pigs_2/Three-Little-Pigs-2.jpg

[DrNarcisse]

That pic reminds me of this show I used to watch the SHIT out of as a kid

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111102122647/logopedia/images/8/80/Berenstain_Bears_logo.jpg

Luv deez guys.

[Nirgon]

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/468/120/507.jpg

[DrNarcisse]

oops

[DrNarcisse]

So we make trak worth 5x the dkp. Voila, numbers problem solved.

I just want to really highlight this again, it's very concise and gets the point of adding variance. If you add variance, the zerg incumbent is forced to reevaulate the worth of each raid mob. Is it worth camping a 12 hour spawn timer for Faydader when the following day Trakanon will be on a 12 hour spawn timer? Definitely not. So what do you do? You either give up spawns outright and hope they spawn during active playing hours (of which, Nihilum has none currently), or you give value to the bigger spawns that the guild really needs to fight over, like your Trakanons. So yeah, Ender is right. They will give more DKP for showing up at a Trakanon batphone, and then all their other batphones are inherently worth 5x less, which means less people will show up, and allow smaller guilds to compete.

Thank you Ender, No more questions. Thank you very, very much. You've been a lovely witness.

[heartbrand]

I just want to really highlight this again, it's very concise and gets the point of adding variance. If you add variance, the zerg incumbent is forced to reevaulate the worth of each raid mob. Is it worth camping a 12 hour spawn timer for Faydader when the following day Trakanon will be on a 12 hour spawn timer? Definitely not. So what do you do? You either give up spawns outright and hope they spawn during active playing hours (of which, Nihilum has none currently), or you give value to the bigger spawns that the guild really needs to fight over, like your Trakanons. So yeah, Ender is right. They will give more DKP for showing up at a Trakanon batphone, and then all their other batphones are inherently worth 5x less, which means less people will show up, and allow smaller guilds to compete.

Thank you Ender, No more questions. Thank you very, very much. You've been a lovely witness.

A+

[Andis]

I just want to really highlight this again, it's very concise and gets the point of adding variance. If you add variance, the zerg incumbent is forced to reevaulate the worth of each raid mob. Is it worth camping a 12 hour spawn timer for Faydader when the following day Trakanon will be on a 12 hour spawn timer? Definitely not. So what do you do? You either give up spawns outright and hope they spawn during active playing hours (of which, Nihilum has none currently), or you give value to the bigger spawns that the guild really needs to fight over, like your Trakanons. So yeah, Ender is right. They will give more DKP for showing up at a Trakanon batphone, and then all their other batphones are inherently worth 5x less, which means less people will show up, and allow smaller guilds to compete.

Thank you Ender, No more questions. Thank you very, very much. You've been a lovely witness.

pras cast

[DrNarcisse]

If you guys haven't noticed, I'm deleting everything in this thread that doesn't pertain to my question so that we can stay on topic.

How and why? Need constructive arguments, not one liners. Right now, there is no competition or PvP.

Here's the simple fact about non-variance, without attacking any certain guild because I don't believe players are at fault. Non-variance promotes strength in numbers. Zergs are inherently strong because of their numbers. Coupled together you have a system that enables one zerg to rule the server with impunity, for infinity. You have a system whereby 60 level 60s can gather up, call themselves a guild, kill all raid mobs in a small window of their choosing, and then log off for the rest of the week. How do you compete with that? The only way to compete is to become exactly what you're fighting against. It just shows you that it's the fault of the system, not the player.

[DrNarcisse]

Dr Roach might be retarded


Variance - After first week or two guild A moves mobs into thier own variance windows and poop sock 1 mob a day.

Ermm.. as the weeks go on, the variance windows will spread out and become unmanagable, IE random. Maybe you can explain to me how you could control a randomized event? Its akin to controlling where the ball will bounce on a roulette wheel, my friend.

[DrNarcisse]

Also.. 90% of these people screaming for variance are planning to leave this server once Teams99 is released. By all accounts Velious is 3ish months away and teams99 shortly after.

Why change this server for these people who are just going to leave for teams99 anyway?

Put variance on Teams99 and see how it goes. But leave Red99 alone.

Wow look at these assumptions. Why make the server better and enjoyable for others to come back and play, when you can just leave it as is so that it can remain the incumbent zergs playing field. The reason for change is because the current system clearly does not work. You can't give a single reason for keeping it non-variance OTHER than because it makes it more difficult for your guild to lock down 100% of the raid mobs. You feel entitled to every single mob in the game, that's your position.

[DrNarcisse]

Why non-variance is good!

1) This is a PvP server and non-variance allows everyone to organize and bring everything they have to contest without dealing with the troubles of PvE throughout the week.

So again, your argument is the ability to have power in numbers. So, as long as you bring a more powerful force, you should be entitled to kill every single raid mob in the game in one sitting. You believe this to be good for the server.

2) It was classic up to whatever point, and this is supposed to be a classic server.

That's not a benefit.

3) With a lower population it allows people to schedule times they can play and get the high numbers they need.

The high numbers they need on a low population server. That's a benefit to the server? Or a benefit to the incumbent zerg?

4) It allows a level playing field for casual and hardcore players because putting in extra time outside the known raiding times is just for fun and provides no progression.

So it's a benefit that players only play for a 3 hour period and then log off until the following week to do it all over again? Also can you explain how non-variance provides a level playing field?

5) Guilds that are not number 1 know when the top guild is raiding and have time to make a strategy to hinder the top guild.

But you've already established that the server is ruled by power through numbers, so how what other strategy is there other than massing more bodies than the "top guild"? Wouldn't that actually inhibit the server from deploying strategy because there are a limited number of players on the server?

[Dullah]

qua qua qua quad post

[DrNarcisse]

Just copy and pasting my posts that were from the thread that was moved to the staff forum. You guys only had a good 2+ hours to bring up one benefit of nonvariance and you couldn't even do that. But my favorite post was you describing exactly how variance would affect your DKP and allow other guilds to compete for lesser raid mobs. Thank you for being such a great pro-variance supporter, albeit unknowingly lol.

[Retti_]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/17190546.jpg

[Tiladas]

Nice to see there are still no real contest against variance, Dr. Narcisse still posting well thought out arguments while people opposed to him post nonsense and memes.

[Nizzarr]

Nice to see there are still no real contest against variance, Dr. Narcisse still posting well thought out arguments while people opposed to him post nonsense and memes.

You're getting trolled.

[DrNarcisse]

You're getting trolled.

Then let everyone in on the secret, tell us one benefit that non-variance brings to the server. Just one!! That's all I'm asking for!

[DrNarcisse]

Nothing huh? Maybe you just have writers block. How about half of a reason?

[Retti_]

I gave u several

u strawmanning?

[Labanen]

Also, do you play on the server ?

[DrNarcisse]

Also, do you play on the server ?

Fair question, surprised it took so long for someone to ask.

I would never set foot on a broken server like this. It is and has been painfully obvious that the current server policy breaks the server. The fact that it's taken 18 months, after the first 6 months gave us all the data we needed, to be at a point of finally changing the server for the better still makes me cringe. With the choice between participating and having to either join a zerg / lead an opposition that would be forced to become a zerg OR sit out based on principles, I choose the latter. It's pretty disheartening to see people unwilling to see past their own pixel lust and ignore completely obvious arguments just because it will make it harder for them personally. They are near sighted and don't understand the domino impact a change like this can have in the long term. The argument is not about wasting Nihilum's time, it's about creating a system where there actually can be competition. As I've said numerous times, if it wasn't Nihilum, it would be another guild. It isn't the players fault for gaming a broken system, it's those in control of the policy. If nothing that has been posted has made an impression on that yet, than you are hopelessly blind or simply naive.



Edit: I'll add an addendum, you might also be incredibly fearful of Nizzar's retribution and unable to voice an opinion (so you don't post) or one that would agree with the opposing view. We've seen his vitriol towards the players who disagree with him (even though he can't make a single argument), so yeah I guess I see why most Nihilum haven't tried posting in these threads. You have to stick to party lines, or you'll find yourself without a party :) But everyone else sees what's happening.

[Something'Witty]

I am not going to all of these posts, but Cast I would like to see an essay on the topic of implementing variance post server reset, then no variance for subsequent repops. If you have already addressed the issue, then just repost what your said.

To me this seems like a fair compromise.

[heartbrand]

I was repeatedly warned by Elderan and Nizzar whenever I would make a post giving my honest opinion on a matter on the forums that wasn't the "nihilum party stance." I was told it was "hurting my nihilum faction," and that I could face repercussions.

[Nizzarr]

I was repeatedly warned by Elderan and Nizzar whenever I would make a post giving my honest opinion on a matter on the forums that wasn't the "nihilum party stance." I was told it was "hurting my nihilum faction," and that I could face repercussions.

this is true and still in effect.

[Dullah]

boohoo we don't possess the social skills to build an Everquest guild

lets fundamentally change the way EQ works to reward players who devote the least time and those too unbearable to guild with

[DrNarcisse]

I am not going to all of these posts, but Cast I would like to see an essay on the topic of implementing variance post server reset, then no variance for subsequent repops. If you have already addressed the issue, then just repost what your said.

To me this seems like a fair compromise.

Well, if I understand what you're saying:

Lets assume the server had a full repop tomorrow at 6pm. You would implement variance for that event. Therefore, no mobs would actually spawn at 6pm (or very unlikely that they would). Every raid mob would have a spawn window from 6pm-6am the following morning. After that initial variance-repop, you would switch back to no-variance.

Well, I mean it's pretty clear what will happen. Nihilum is forced into either 2 scenarios:

1) They keep every single person in the guild online for 12 straight hours.
a. They either kill all the mobs as they spawn, then they will have a staggered spawn the following week.
b. They just stop any competition from killing a raid mob and kill them in whatever their preferred spawn window is. Then, of course, you're assuming there is anyone able to compete for these mobs.

The point of addressing non-variance is that no matter what, the zerg will end up with all of the mobs in their spawn window. It is an incredibly strong mechanic, being able to kill everything back-to-back-to-back, so you do anything in your power to be the holder of that power. So, you have incredible power in numbers, and you also have the inherent power in a zerg (lots of numbers). Couple those together, and you've just made the strongest team even stronger. That's what you've seen over the past 18 months, the only strategy to overthrow an incumbent zerg in this position is "to recruit more". You literally have to outgrow the zerg (and their levels/gear disparity, all at the same time), and become the zerg. You can imagine just how difficult of a task that actually is.

2) They don't even bother logging in because the server has been beaten down for 18+ months with a bad policy that makes it near-impossible (outside of all of the zerg leaders quitting) to compete, and no one shows up. They proceed to set their preferred spawn window the next day, when all mobs are up and ready to be slewn.


So, in my opinion, it fixes nothing. The idea behind variance-events for raid mobs is that eventually they get pushed further and further into the week, until finally there is probably a spawn window in every day of the week. It's all random, I'm just giving you the best case scenario (and one likely to happen eventually). With this happening, you remove SOME of the power of the zerg because they can no longer over-power the server in a single sitting to kill every raid mob in the game.

[Dullah]

nilly scowling at fartbrand, threateningly to red dawn

[Snufz]

boohoo we don't possess the social skills to build an Everquest guild

lets fundamentally change the way EQ works to reward players who devote the least time and those too unbearable to guild with

I don't get this.

You have 0 to do with Nihilum's success, it isn't 100 small parts that make a working everquest machine.

You have your guildleader, and only him, as your sole reason for being #1.

[freez]

nilly scowling at fartbrand, threateningly to red dawn

shut up. you have no control over anything guild related

qq more because variance is gettting put in and you will have to work for banked pixels... or maybe u wont?

[Something'Witty]

Lets assume the server had a full repop tomorrow at 6pm. You would implement variance for that event. Therefore, no mobs would actually spawn at 6pm (or very unlikely that they would). Every raid mob would have a spawn window from 6pm-6am the following morning. After that initial variance-repop, you would switch back to no-variance.

I was thinking of a much longer window, maybe 3 days, with regards to initial full server repop variance. That way the mob spawn times would be random initially, solving the "super raid day" scenario you are arguing against. At the same time, the anti variance crowd get fixed spawn times, and only have to deal with variance after a full repop. Seems like a decent compromise to me.

[iiNGloriouS]

I was thinking of a much longer window, maybe 3 days, with regards to initial full server repop variance. That way the mob spawn times would be random initially, solving the "super raid day" scenario you are arguing against. At the same time, the anti variance crowd get fixed spawn times, and only have to deal with variance after a full repop. Seems like a decent compromise to me.

http://img.pandawhale.com/87495-Thor-upvote-gif-ANOTHER-Imgur-vhqM.gif

[DrNarcisse]

I was thinking of a much longer window, maybe 3 days, with regards to initial full server repop variance. That way the mob spawn times would be random initially, solving the "super raid day" scenario you are arguing against. At the same time, the anti variance crowd get fixed spawn times, and only have to deal with variance after a full repop. Seems like a decent compromise to me.

I mean, everything I said remains the same. If you're expecting some competition to swoop in and contest in this situation, it's not happening. You've had 18+ months to create a monster, and now you have a monster. What you're saying is still essentially non-variance, except you are staggering the first spawn of mobs based on variance aspect. Like, I just don't understand the intention. Nihilum is still going to do whatever they want over those 3 days. Either they will kill the mob around when it spawns, or they will just defend the mobs and coast them into a spawn window that they prefer. Even if magically another guild were to snipe one (hell even a couple) raid mobs, all Nihilum does is waits until next week and brings 60 players, now what do you do? Oh, yeah you log off because now every spawn is non-variance and they're just going to either kill it themselves or defend it until all their other mobs spawn.

So yeah, I commend you for trying to think outside the box, but you still have a pure non-variance system. That "super raid day" will take either a week or at most, a couple of weeks, to get back on schedule. My guess is no one would show up to compete for the first spawn, it's an enormous headache for a slight, one time opportunity at sniping a mob in a small 3 day window. Then its business as usual.

[Something'Witty]

I mean, everything I said remains the same. If you're expecting some competition to swoop in and contest in this situation, it's not happening. You've had 18+ months to create a monster, and now you have a monster. What you're saying is still essentially non-variance, except you are staggering the first spawn of mobs based on variance aspect. Like, I just don't understand the intention. Nihilum is still going to do whatever they want over those 3 days. Either they will kill the mob around when it spawns, or they will just defend the mobs and coast them into a spawn window that they prefer. Even if magically another guild were to snipe one (hell even a couple) raid mobs, all Nihilum does is waits until next week and brings 60 players, now what do you do? Oh, yeah you log off because now every spawn is non-variance and they're just going to either kill it themselves or defend it until all their other mobs spawn.

So yeah, I commend you for trying to think outside the box, but you still have a pure non-variance system. That "super raid day" will take either a week or at most, a couple of weeks, to get back on schedule. My guess is no one would show up to compete for the first spawn, it's an enormous headache for a slight, one time opportunity at sniping a mob in a small 3 day window. Then its business as usual.

Two things:

1) The part in bold: It sounds like a lot of PvP and maybe some fun will be had, on both sides.

2) The part underlined: So how is that any different then having variance on each spawn? It makes me think that your crusade against variance is nothing more than an attempt to grief Nihilum from wherever you got banished to.


Again, I purpose this scenario as compromise between the two camps. Neither side gets everything that they want.

[DrNarcisse]

Two things:

1) The part in bold: It sounds like a lot of PvP and maybe some fun will be had, on both sides.

2) The part underlined: So how is that any different then having variance on each spawn? It makes me think that your crusade against variance is nothing more than an attempt to grief Nihilum from wherever you got banished to.


Again, I purpose this scenario as compromise between the two camps. Neither side gets everything that they want.

Dude, really? You don't see what's wrong?

ok, in #1, lets assume you get some pvp. So what? Lets say those 3 days are the most exciting days of PVP on the server. It's like going back in time and playing EQ in the clouds! Awesome pvp, awesome time! What happens the following week? Oops. Now you're back to static spawning mobs that will be up in 168 hours precisely. Do you know what's going to be waiting for you? The DKP machine, 60 level 60s. Do you think pvp is going to ever happen again?

Do you know why you think point #1 brings pvp? Because it would. Do you know what the mechanic behind it is? It's variance. That's the variance aspect of your idea. What ruins it and stops the pvp? non-variance. Do I have to keep explaining?


Your second point, #2, I'm not sure what you're asking. I gave you a best case scenario for your plan, which is somehow a magical group of players forms up and is able to kill a couple raid mobs in your scenario. That's the best case. I think the most obvious case is that no one would even show up to PVP, I mean what has really changed? You've added variance for a sole week, one lousy spawn. Everything will be back to business as usual by the following week or a couple weeks after at most. So why do we bother trying to mount up to compete when nothing, not one single thing, has changed to the core problem of the server policy? In addition, this is not anti-Nihilum, it certainly is anti-Zerg. Non-variance strengthens an already incredibly strong zerg. The zerg already rules by numbers, non-variance allows you to doubledown on that because you know exactly when the mob is up, and you position your zerg to defend against any competition.

I mean ask yourself, how can you compete against 60 level 60 players? The only way is to out recruit them and become the zerg yourself. That's what non-variance leads to. 18 months of data has proven it. Variance (as you aptly say yourself) will likely lead to PVP, and you're only talking about 3 measely days in your scenario. My scenario is variance 24/7/365, 12hour windows where mobs will be pingponging across the week and hour, allowing multiple types of guilds to compete. I don't doubt that Nihilum will remain on top, but they will have to earn mobs that they plan on farming.

[Retti_]

http://truedemocracyparty.net/wp-content/uploads/strawmanargument.jpg

[Something'Witty]

What happens the following week? Oops. Now you're back to static spawning mobs that will be up in 168 hours precisely. Do you know what's going to be waiting for you? The DKP machine, 60 level 60s. Do you think pvp is going to ever happen again?

But the spawning mobs will be spread out over 1-?? days. The only advantage having further variance would be to prevent Nilly from consolidating the mobs spawn times and increase the chance of non-Nilly guilds sniping mobs. However, if Nilly is able to defend multiple mobs and consolidate spawn times, then I doubt increasing the amount of variance would really help other guilds, especially when more variance results in poopsocking and batphones. Do you think any current guilds would be able to compete with Nihilum in those departments?


After the above quote I stopped reading. I try not to feed trolls, well too much*...

[k9quaint]

nilly scowling at fartbrand, threateningly to red dawn

Thank god the PVP is a rare drop from Nihilum which is a rare spawn. :D

[DrNarcisse]

But the spawning mobs will be spread out over 1-?? days. The only advantage having further variance would be to prevent Nilly from consolidating the mobs spawn times and increase the chance of non-Nilly guilds sniping mobs. However, if Nilly is able to defend multiple mobs and consolidate spawn times, then I doubt increasing the amount of variance would really help other guilds, especially when more variance results in poopsocking and batphones. Do you think any current guilds would be able to compete with Nihilum in those departments?

Well now you've flown the coop. You asked for me to break down what would happen give your own morphed variance+non variance scenario and I gave you my opinion. You recognized that the 3 day period of variance would result in PVP (if there was competition), but you're failing to understand the even more obvious part after that, that non-variance kicks back in and puts the server in the exact same situation it currently is in.

Yes, dude, if by some magical force there is a competition that is willing to show up for a singular round of variance that then reverts back to non-variance, Nihilum will simply do everything in their power to reconsolidate the mob spawns into a single spawn window. I pointed out that it could take several weeks, if competition was dedicated enough, but at some point they will realize nothing changes. You cannot out zerg a zerg. After the initial round of variance, the mobs are non-variance'd. There is absolutely nothing you can do if 60 level 60s decide to sit ontop of the mob and just wait to start consolidating mobs into their preferred window. It's... like... painfully obvious that's exactly what any guild in their position would do.

However, if Nilly is able to defend multiple mobs and consolidate spawn times, then I doubt increasing the amount of variance would really help other guilds, especially when more variance results in poopsocking and batphones.

The only advantage having further variance would be to prevent Nilly from consolidating the mobs spawn times and increase the chance of non-Nilly guilds sniping mobs.

Read these sentences/bold you wrote. From the same paragraph, they are juxtaposed. You're arguing against yourself, and then calling me a troll. You doubt that increasing variance would help other guilds, and in the same breath you say that variance would prevent Nihilum from consolidating mobs and increase the odds of non-zerg guilds to kill raid mobs.

That's the entire point. The consolidation piece is what makes non-variance incredibly strong. A zerg is already very strong because they have a lot of people. If you can move the spawns so that everything is back-to-back-to-back, your numbers are even stronger. Why? Because instead of having to log 50 players in on multiple days, for long periods of time, once you have consolidated (as you say it) all the mobs, you now only need to get those 50 players to log in for a 3 hour window, once a week, every single week. So it strengthens an incumbent zerg. You answered your own question above about variance. It seems like you'd rather not hear it, but you can read it in your own writing.

[DrNarcisse]

After the above quote I stopped reading. I try not to feed trolls, well too much*...

Next time try reading it all, you may learn something.

[Dullah]

http://domaingang.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/retard.jpg

[Something'Witty]

calling me a troll.
Best way to troll a troll, is to call them a troll


Read these sentences/bold you wrote.
You reversed the order and took out context, pro forumquesting move


Next time try reading it all, you may learn something.
I read it, I just wasn't impressed and wanted to see if I could get you to write another essay with the least amount of effort on my part

[DrNarcisse]

Best way to troll a troll, is to call them a troll

You reversed the order and took out context, pro forumquesting move

I read it, I just wasn't impressed and wanted to see if I could get you to write another essay with the least amount of effort on my part

Well, too bad, so sad. You could have learned a few things. I don't mind educating the stupid, so it was all in a days work. Thanks for the opportunity to debunk your stupid idea (sorry, maybe I should have told you it was stupid from the start?).

[DrNarcisse]

and wanted to see if I could get you to write another essay

edit: oh looks like you deleted your post directly above this one, for someone who believes he was trolling me it sure looks like youre putting in a lot of effort :)


Oh, the old thing where you get manhandled in a 1v1 argument, blood and teeth splattered on the floor, and then you say naw m8 I was just joshin you, lol trolled !!1

Yeah, haven't seen that from a sore loser over my illustrious 15 year trolling career. You wanted to sound smart but in the end I made you look like a fool. Another clear victory for variance.

[Retti_]

http://domaingang.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/retard.jpg

goog painter

[heartbrand]

over my illustrious 15 year trolling career.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Something'Witty]

edit: oh looks like you deleted your post directly above this one, for someone who believes he was trolling me it sure looks like youre putting in a lot of effort :)


Oh, the old thing where you get manhandled in a 1v1 argument, blood and teeth splattered on the floor, and then you say naw m8 I was just joshin you, lol trolled !!1

Yeah, haven't seen that from a sore loser over my illustrious 15 year trolling career. You wanted to sound smart but in the end I made you look like a fool. Another clear victory for variance.

Heh, my first two posts were legit. As I was writing the third, I saw where this conversation was heading, and decided to bow out. The rest was me throwing you a bone, since from what I gather, forumquest is all you have.

The post I deleted was an accidental post. Let that sink in. You responded that voraciously to an accidental post...

[Dullah]

A+ trolling today from cast.

We now learned that nothing of EQ pvp is sacred on Red99 when people are upset, no matter how blue and anti-pvp the suggestion. Player hatred of other players/guilds (Nihilum) in a video game runs much deeper than the respect for the game we came to play! In the name of "fairness", everyone should be capable of winning no matter how little they play or how miserably they fail at guild v guild competition. Last but not least, no matter how many times you demonstrate the virtues of classic EQ's static spawn system, regardless of the fact that these mechanics are the reason we came to this server, it can all be turned into presumption and false hypotheses (in the mind's of the troll hoards and butthurt masses); and all this proven beyond the shadow of a doubt by a guy that doesn't even play on red99, who has no real intention of playing on red99, and who couldn't play on red99 if he wanted to because he spent months of his life spamming tranny porn on these very forums.

Next week on the docket, Cast will extol the virtues of instancing and how it can be beneficial in overcoming the "unstoppable zerg" in new and improved ways. Same bat time, same bat channel.

[Colgate]

coach cast's valid points for variance: countless
ender and pals valid points against variance: 0

[Dullah]

I'll leave you with an actual recent quote from Sirken about the non-variance system on Red99:
in regards to the current non variance system, as an outsider looking in, it really doesn't look fun. all the mobs are slewn on the same day of the week by a force that clearly outnumbers all other competitive forces, leaving zero chance for merbs and while theres pvp, i imagine it's very one sided.



Now lets look at the actual context.


but here are some facts, if multiple guilds were able/willing to have 24/7 trackers and use batphones, then yes, their odds of getting some of those mobs would improve. but, you will also have less pvp if nobody is certain on the exact spawn time of the mob.

...

WHY is it 45vs20 or 50vs15 every week? Why cant the second guild recruit new players? Why can't it retain current players?

there's currently two reasons for those things. 1) a lot of people want easy road to pixels and join top guild. 2) a lot of people think the other guild is a bunch of douchebags and would rather quit playing than join the same guild as the dumb asses that spew their garbage into OOC, make a habit of griefing players, and just act like general pieces shit.

[DrNarcisse]

Those points have already been debated by me and I have come out victorious. We've debunked this theory about variance bringing no PVP, as any pvp will constitute a higher percentage of pvp than the current system. The second point makes no sense considering Nihilum has the highest turnover ratio out of any guild ever created on Red99 or Blue99. You can't expect other guilds not to have turnover when the top guild can't keep its members.

Thank you, come again.

[DrRoach]

Those points have already been debated by me and I have come out victorious. We've debunked this theory about variance bringing no PVP, as any pvp will constitute a higher percentage of pvp than the current system. The second point makes no sense considering Nihilum has the highest turnover ratio out of any guild ever created on Red99 or Blue99. You can't expect other guilds not to have turnover when the top guild can't keep its members.

Thank you, come again.

i love this little cocksucker, i win because i say i win

[DrNarcisse]

i love this little cocksucker, i win because i say i win

I post proof, facts, data - they post... memes and threats.

I win.

[DrRoach]

your walls of text just look like tranny porn matrix style. unless nizzar dies in a high speed wheelchair accident nihilum will never be stopped

[DrRoach]

let me put it this way. you hav a much better chance of trying to out zerg them then out poopsock them. thats why every 3 or 4 months nihilum loses a couple mobs

you see that ender guy? what he have five banned toons yet he keeps coming back. end of the world only thing left will be cockroaches and ender.noone outside nihilum has that much dedication/asbergers

[DrNarcisse]

let me put it this way. you hav a much better chance of trying to out zerg them then out poopsock them. thats why every 3 or 4 months nihilum loses a couple mobs

you see that ender guy? what he have five banned toons yet he keeps coming back. end of the world only thing left will be cockroaches and ender.noone outside nihilum has that much dedication/asbergers

For every Ender, they have 2 LittleGynos, 2 MrZeks, and 3 Savage Wolves.

So you could try to recruit a bigger zerg (listen to what you're saying, wow so fun such amaze!) and run into them on their raid day hoping for a good outcome .. or you could force players like LittleGyno to log on 5-7 days of the week, at various hours, to actually earn and compete for mobs. Much easier to be a strong zerg when the server policy allows you to get even stronger by limiting your weak links exposure to competition. Going to be hilarious to watch these weak links (almost all of their members) trying to fight in solo/small group pvp for spawn positioning, rushing to mobs, tracking, lol. So the possibility of small scale + mid scale scale pvp skirms, or 18+ months of data that shows no pvp and the only strategy to be mass recruit and become a zerg.

Stop typing.

[DrRoach]

For every Ender, they have 2 LittleGynos, 2 MrZeks, and 3 Savage Wolves.

So you could try to recruit a bigger zerg (listen to what you're saying, wow so fun such amaze!) and run into them on their raid day hoping for a good outcome .. or you could force players like LittleGyno to log on 5-7 days of the week, at various hours, to actually earn and compete for mobs. Much easier to be a strong zerg when the server policy allows you to get even stronger by limiting your weak links exposure to competition. Going to be hilarious to watch these weak links (almost all of their members) trying to fight in solo/small group pvp for spawn positioning, rushing to mobs, tracking, lol. So the possibility of small scale + mid scale scale pvp skirms, or 18+ months of data that shows no pvp and the only strategy to be mass recruit and become a zerg.

Stop typing.

are you allowed to play here?

[DrNarcisse]

Yes, Sirken loves me. Sometimes two broncos like Sirken and I go head-to-head, but we both got dat chitown love. You feelers me?

[DrRoach]

Yes, Sirken loves me. Sometimes two broncos like Sirken and I go head-to-head, but we both got dat chitown love. You feelers me?

sirken is a good guy, good luck to you.

[Clark]

Due to current forumquesting made by some ALL GUILDS members(everyone), it is now open griefing season on the entire red server.

I am now unleashing Ambrotos on you all.

Have fun!

LOL