EQ pvp : higher the risk = less pvp

[Velerin]

So many good and bad ideas for a successful teams pvp server out there.
Everyone wants the same thing:
1) lots of people playing
2) lots of pvp
Everyone has different ideas for what risks and what rewards there should be.

Does there really need to be any reward? On a teams server you kill the guy because you're supposed. The reward is team and zone control or maybe YT or whatever. Does it really make it any better to loot his banded mail? Or even his 12 gold?

Next : risk? We want the guy we killed to lose something and feel the pain. But we also want to have good fights and lots of them. The more risk there is the more people avoid pvp. More plugs, gates, bagging items etc. no pvp. Do we really need risk besides a CR and maybe 5-10 min of pvp rez sickness?
Exp loss= awful ..have to pve more to make up for (less pvp)
Item loss = maybe ok if implemented well but still makes people shy away, plug, stop fighting to bag (less pvp)

I know there's people that will yell and scream. "Omg bluebie! I want people to be afraid and cry and die irl when I gank them."

Less risk = more pvp, not more blue

[Tradesonred]

Dude, this isnt Call of Duty!

/sarcasm

[Bamz4l]

less people crying cuz game too hard = more pvp

[Potus]

EXP Loss killed Red99. I think it's really comical the Devs are putting in Item Loot.

They learned absolutely nothing from Red99.

[Tradesonred]

EXP Loss killed Red99. I think it's really comical the Devs are putting in Item Loot.

They learned absolutely nothing from Red99.

If theyre smart about it, item loot can actually be a plus, making things interesting for a longer time.

If they patch in sets of no drop that raises the basic "nakedness" of casuals, it might work.

But yeah vanilla item loot will just be lols as people like cast camp casuals until theyre fully stripped out of their precious cloth, its then back to our resident neckbeards 80 pop crew

[Taboo]

I foresee a lot of riding of zone walls. And only playing near zone lines. OP has it spot on.

[compulsion]

People HT themselves and suicide into mobs regularly to avoid YT, which is pretty much meaningless.

Just imagine how fast people will ditch, and the lengths they will go to avoid PvP, when an item is on the line.

[Tradesonred]

The mistake people make is thinking that people play EQ pvp to pvp

Right, Rogean?

[Lowlife]

my dick is so hard for t99

[aborted]

Why not give xp for killing people

[r00t]

my dick is so hard for t99

[Potus]

I foresee a lot of riding of zone walls. And only playing near zone lines. OP has it spot on.

Yup just stay near zone lines, then plug.

[Rec]

crushbone zone line

[Velerin]

Why not give xp for killing people

I like that a lot especially on a teams server. Make it a small amount and figure out a way to make it not exploitable. Maybe diminishing returns or no exp for 30 min after pk'd etc. to avoid chain killing people on CRs.

More incentive for people to go out and do some team pvping!

[runlvlzero]

you faggots don't even understand the meaning of pvp. you think its some kind of leaderboard KDR bullshit 1v1 combat vs random people quake style...

That is only one tiny little aspect of pvp... so everytime I see a fucking thread like this bitching about the lack or "type" of pvp... I say FUCK YOU GO PLAY QUAKE ******. (((BAAAN THE FUUCK OUT OF MY ACCOUNT PLEASE IM TIRED OF THESE LAME ASS FUCKING THREADS< PERMA BAN THAT SHIT )))

EDIT: + you are the bitches PVPING in a god damned crippled ass MMO rather than a real pvp game. Play more, build community, QQ less.

SUPER FINAL FUCKING EDIT: YOU ALL WOULD FUCKING FAIL AT: Baseball, soccer, volleyball, footbal, rugby, water polo, or ANY OTHER TEAM SPORT, TEAMS99 won't fix that shit. You can't unfuck people by making rules or changing regimes

I fucking lied. Basketball would be the #1 sport ya'll fucking fail at.

http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/25-dunk-fail-disappointed-coach-basketball-fail-gifs.gif (http://www.totalprosports.com/2012/11/01/25-hilarious-basketball-fail-gifs/)

http://www.totalprosports.com/2012/11/01/25-hilarious-basketball-fail-gifs/

[Bazia]

seek help

[Tradesonred]

you faggots don't even understand the meaning of pvp. you think its some kind of leaderboard KDR bullshit 1v1 combat vs random people quake style...

That is only one tiny little aspect of pvp... so everytime I see a fucking thread like this bitching about the lack or "type" of pvp... I say FUCK YOU GO PLAY QUAKE ******. (((BAAAN THE FUUCK OUT OF MY ACCOUNT PLEASE IM TIRED OF THESE LAME ASS FUCKING THREADS< PERMA BAN THAT SHIT )))

EDIT: + you are the bitches PVPING in a god damned crippled ass MMO rather than a real pvp game. Play more, build community, QQ less.

SUPER FINAL FUCKING EDIT: YOU ALL WOULD FUCKING FAIL AT: Baseball, soccer, volleyball, footbal, rugby, water polo, or ANY OTHER TEAM SPORT, TEAMS99 won't fix that shit. You can't unfuck people by making rules or changing regimes

I fucking lied. Basketball would be the #1 sport ya'll fucking fail at.

http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/25-dunk-fail-disappointed-coach-basketball-fail-gifs.gif (http://www.totalprosports.com/2012/11/01/25-hilarious-basketball-fail-gifs/)

http://www.totalprosports.com/2012/11/01/25-hilarious-basketball-fail-gifs/

Pretty sure this guy was about 2.5 feet tall when Rallos-SZ started out

Tell us more about what classic EQ pvp is all about

[runlvlzero]

Pretty sure this guy was about 2.5 feet tall when Rallos-SZ started out

Tell us more about what classic EQ pvp is all about

It's about server politics and gentlemanly sport. It's about real drama between organizations, warfare, it's about the outcast vs the organized, not this, level 25 twink alt or Nihilum VS Azrael hack/devfest. It's about brotherhood, and working together to accomplish the MMO goals. Not about this gladatorial bullshit that keeps getting brought up. That people in UNREST FUCKING PRETEND its about. That pvp must be happening between everyone at all times and if its not ... something is wrong. PvP just for a score is pvp without meaning beyond EGO asshat.

Everyone on this server behaves like a scrub did on Rallos, most everyone. At least the 90 most active of you do.

None of you ever will, or want to even make the big plays.

You just talk a lot, and I mean a lot of shit.

[Dullah]

Item loot is the only reason to have a second pvp server.

[Bazia]

put exp loss back in, current rules where melee just loot and bind rush endlessly is retarded

this server is a shit hole atm with how blue it has become

[runlvlzero]

And to be honest... I think Nihilum has the better players in it now... at least it's core members consistently work towards a greater common goal than the best of the scrubs.

** P.S. I'm not /prasing Nihilum (the guild/org itself still sux, especially compared against all time, and classic EQ), I'm just saying they suck less.

[Tradesonred]

The fun itself is the reward. Xp loss was a really bad idea, i dont think u remember well how fucking boring pvp was with it. Prepare for 40mins for a fight that lasts 5mins and nobody comes back for 2nd because of heavy sting of xp loss.

[Bazia]

have having melees endlessly bind rushing and attempting to loot their bodies is awesome

if ur a caster and the melee is bound in or 1 zone away you are completely fucked unless they care about YT (most don't)

[Velerin]

have having melees endlessly bind rushing and attempting to loot their bodies is awesome

if ur a caster and the melee is bound in or 1 zone away you are completely fucked unless they care about YT (most don't)

That's a real easy fix. In fact they did it on live. Just make pvp rez sickness after death. (like reg rez sickness but a bit longer) They still will come back eventually but no faster than a caster medding up.

[susvain0362]

maybe they should make it you cannot equip/unequip anything once in pvp combat. it would fuck with pve too much so they could just make it pvp combat only. would make it better imo! no taking off your items non sense

[Tradesonred]

have having melees endlessly bind rushing and attempting to loot their bodies is awesome

if ur a caster and the melee is bound in or 1 zone away you are completely fucked unless they care about YT (most don't)

Well its that or dont play cuz farming PVE for 3 hours to put one death in the bank is indescribably boring. Especially after having grinded 60. Fucking. levels. to get to the point where you dont need to PVE beside to get some gear.

If those of you that think this way get the server you want, hope a 50 person pop isnt far from what you had in mind for a healthy pop. Good luck trying to get semi-casuals like me rolling a character on the 3rd server with this soul crushing never ending grind setup.

[runlvlzero]

Well its that or dont play cuz farming PVE for 3 hours to put one death in the bank is indescribably boring. Especially after having grinded 60. Fucking. levels. to get to the point where you dont need to PVE beside to get some gear.

If those of you that think this way get the server you want, hope a 50 person pop isnt far from what you had in mind for a healthy pop. Good luck trying to get semi-casuals like me rolling a character on the 3rd server with this soul crushing never ending grind setup.

Your point is valid. However there is no point in catering to both... either one or the other.

If you want to fully cater to lets fight constantly every single day over dragons, just make people log in at level 51 automatically with a set of level 40's gear. Free Jboots + Pegi cloak, that shit takes longer to get than getting to 51. Red99 will never be that, might as well make your own custom server.

This communities problem is lack of community. And EZMODE pvp servers are the problem.

Rallos built community because it was 100x more soul crushing than this box ever was.

Anyway my original rant/QQ still stands, I don't see the players ever taking action to change things, and it really doesn't matter what the devs/staff do at this point. They've done pretty good, not the best, their best may yet be to come, but the players are failing hard.

[Stasis01]

Teams

Variance

Grouping bonus so people are encouraged to invite others

Success

[Tradesonred]

Your point is valid. However there is no point in catering to both... either one or the other.

If you want to fully cater to lets fight constantly every single day over dragons, just make people log in at level 51 automatically with a set of level 40's gear. Free Jboots + Pegi cloak, that shit takes longer to get than getting to 51. Red99 will never be that, might as well make your own custom server.

This communities problem is lack of community. And EZMODE pvp servers are the problem.

Rallos built community because it was 100x more soul crushing than this box ever was.

Rallos had no xp loss in pvp. If it did, i would have quit a month in, instead of playing 2 years. Only got to 44 because so much time was spent fighting around camps. You know, its not the end game gear that matters, but the journey.

[Stasis01]

Planning a server based off how you remember EQ live is going to be a failure, I am sorry - this isn't 1999, and we aren't worried about our E-rep. In fact, I would say the scummier shit you do, the more people laugh and enjoy it.

We are in a new age whoever you are guy, get the fuck outta here with ur nonsense.

[Rec]

It's easy to build a community around rallos when you have the entire EQ community at its prime with nothing else better to play to pull from.

[Stasis01]

And they didn't PVP each other from what I hear.

[runlvlzero]

Planning a server based off how you remember EQ live is going to be a failure, I am sorry - this isn't 1999, and we aren't worried about our E-rep. In fact, I would say the scummier shit you do, the more people laugh and enjoy it.

We are in a new age whoever you are guy, get the fuck outta here with ur nonsense.

maybe, whatever, enjoy your E-Gladiator virtual arena... it may not be instanced but it sure as hell seems to be pushed that direction by the majority.

[Stasis01]

FFA is the bluest PVP box you can do - it's called blue, they all joined the same guild - the only thing different is you will never have a second guild, it will always just be one mass of hardcores.

If all of Nihilum crew left, it would be the next in line with the biggest beards take over the crown - disgusting set up, boring, stagnant, blue.

[Tradesonred]

Planning a server based off how you remember EQ live is going to be a failure, I am sorry - this isn't 1999, and we aren't worried about our E-rep. In fact, I would say the scummier shit you do, the more people laugh and enjoy it.

We are in a new age whoever you are guy, get the fuck outta here with ur nonsense.

So thats your argumentation against my point that PVE grinding to get one death in the bank is so fucking boring that it will never attract more than the 50 basement-dwellers resident neckbeards who are still playing red?

[Stasis01]

So thats your argumentation against my point that PVE grinding to get one death in the bank is so fucking boring that it will never attract more than the 50 basement-dwellers resident neckbeards who are still playing red?

My argumentation?

I don't know what your angle is crazy person.

[Tradesonred]

I swear each time a new pvp server gets started, these guys come out of the woodwork with ideas to make sure the pop is kept to a strict minimum. Its like some SOE black ops agent at work who doesnt want emulator servers to get populated.

Ive got a good idea here too, gonna start putting knee jerk trolly reponses people on ignore, because i dont come here for entertainement anymore. So if i wanna talk seriously about game mechanics, threads wont be cluttered by people like you.

[runlvlzero]

I swear each time a new pvp server gets started, these guys come out of the woodwork with ideas to make sure the pop is kept to a strict minimum. Its like some SOE black ops agent at work who doesnt want emulator servers to get populated.

Ive got a good idea here too, gonna start putting knee jerk trolly reponses people on ignore, because i dont come here for entertainement anymore. So if i wanna talk seriously about game mechanics, threads wont be cluttered by people like you.

You have to understand mechanics first. The vast majority of you are oblivious. Don't even know what you really want*** TM

[Rec]

i wouldn't mind SOE sabotaging us if it meant they opened their own pvp progression server

[Swish]

i wouldn't mind SOE sabotaging us if it meant they opened their own pvp progression server

They'd fuck it up and shut it down after 2-3 months. They're fickle.

[Potus]

i wouldn't mind SOE sabotaging us if it meant they opened their own pvp progression server

They don't even use the old zones. I don't know if you've seen New Freeport or the "Commonlands" but they look like shit.

[Gustoo]

Guys.

Item loot isn't a big deal.

If you hate it just play on teams.

Everyone else will have a good time on red99 which will finally become the purest expression of EQpvp.

1. Everyone already rides zone lines
2. Everyone already avoids PVP except PKs (typical, doy)
3. every other 1million reasons why item loot makes pvp meaningful.

[Colgate]

teams is the server that will have item loot, not red99

[Gustoo]

nahhhhh

[Gustoo]

because that would obviously be dumb so I'm sure its impossible..

[Gustoo]

p.s. thanks for information colgate I only post on the forums in favor of item loot and don't have time to read stuff anymore.

I think item loot is great idea on any server. I like forcing item loot down the throats of people who want to have manastone dreams on the new fresh server. I am just afraid of it being another GM/Dev bastard child like red99 was with a mishmash of "well meaning" rules that never get revised or fixed up as people find them to be retarded.

I think it sucks because it leaves red99 classic without much to offer, at least, until T99 becomes a cesspool.

[Clark]

I think it's really comical the Devs are putting in Item Loot.

They learned absolutely nothing from Red99.

:confused:

[Gustoo]

Agreed :confused:

[Potus]

:confused:

Item loot is probably the only thing worse than EXP loss in making people avoid pvp.

Hope that helps!

[Gustoo]

That helps.

PVP avoidance is still at 100% even with EXP loss disengaged.

Item loot makes PVP have a point, but it is an inconvenience.

[Retti_]

Like when a shadow knight would have to exp for 6 hours to make up 1 pvp death





Trolllololol

[Kastro]

People HT themselves and suicide into mobs regularly to avoid YT, which is pretty much meaningless.

Just imagine how fast people will ditch, and the lengths they will go to avoid PvP, when an item is on the line.

Yeah imagine how fast people ditch when they realized they are about to get PKed Irl..

Most fights these days are ambushes with IED's ( waiting at zone lines and druid rings)... Nighttime Raids ( get them engaged to mobs) or drone, car bomb, airstrike....ie mage bolt/ pet or wizzi nukes... ( who sticks around for that sh!t?

So what i am hearing you say is pvp will become more realistic, more fear, more adrenaline, and just that much more exciting and intense...,

Item loot introduces the slot machine dynamic to pvp... once you win once you have to keep playing to try to get that same feeling again... without item loot and fighting over raid mobs and rare spawns, thete is nothing that visceral or compelling about a 14 year old elf simulator...

[Gustoo]

Yep. On item loot server the whole point for me is to get my act together and get at a level I want to fight at and start doing battle. When I'm grinding in unrest I'll be wearing full banded,leather, or cloth so when I get ganked it won't really matter. When I'm level 50 plus and I get killed that is just my own sad fault.

Can't wait for item loot. I really hope they put it on FFA instead though.

[Kelsar]

Some valid points in this thread.

My only hope is the GMs ensure the melees don't get screwed over by allowing people to loot primary/secondary/BP/legs<maybe arms>.

Why: I'm primarily thinking about warriors, monks, and rogues who will get absolutely shit on in a new release PvP server with item loot.

This also benefits casters, as they can EQUIP their manastone to ensure they don't lose it.

[compulsion]

Yeah imagine how fast people ditch when they realized they are about to get PKed Irl..

Most fights these days are ambushes with IED's ( waiting at zone lines and druid rings)... Nighttime Raids ( get them engaged to mobs) or drone, car bomb, airstrike....ie mage bolt/ pet or wizzi nukes... ( who sticks around for that sh!t?

So what i am hearing you say is pvp will become more realistic, more fear, more adrenaline, and just that much more exciting and intense...,

Item loot introduces the slot machine dynamic to pvp... once you win once you have to keep playing to try to get that same feeling again... without item loot and fighting over raid mobs and rare spawns, thete is nothing that visceral or compelling about a 14 year old elf simulator...

You are seriously comparing EQ with active duty combat? Who gets fear and adrenaline from PvP in this game where spells cast in 4+ secs and jousting happens in 3+ sec per swing intervals? It isn't "visceral" and it never was. For jousters, it is timing, for casters it is positioning and resource management. EQ is quite possibly the very worst foundation upon which to build this fabled game system where getting PKd in game feels like getting "PKd Irl"

Psychologically, you are likely to make worse rational(timing or resource management) decisions while afraid or hyped up on adrenaline. So really, the feelings that you associate with better PvP are actually qualities that would be characteristic of a poor player. Your highest value(a strong emotional interaction with the game) is a proven liability. Whatever crazy emotional input you need, which is what you are really looking for, you won't find it in EQ, ever. Not even if we just did a straight re run of the Discord server, which would probably be better than 95% of the shitty ideas that have been dumped on this board.

I played RZ for years and switched to SZ when it opened, and SZ was much, much more fun and engaging. SZ was flat out more challenging. XP loss meant people cared if they died and players wore resist gear so PvP wasn't just a matter of clicking 1 three times. RZ players just refused to adapt to a tougher environment and instead clung to the ego connections they made with killshots they collected on undergeared/no-drop scrubs.

[dogbarf]

Its not like a slot machine, its more like poker.

We have the bluebies here crying about pvp, they want to play poker without betting any money. They think eqs combat and pvp should be the fun when there are countless other mmos with better more skill based combat and nonstop pvp in battlegrounds.

Then we have the people who think playing poker without betting is gay as fuck, hence they want item loot.

[Supreme Idiot]

If you have ITEM LOOT on the server with NO DROP items, you will just have a repeat of Red99 with 1 zerg guild recruiting/powerleveling everyone to camp no drops. Remove all no drops from the game (minus stuff like jboots, lev cloak, sky haste belts) or watch the server die in 3 months.

[Gustoo]

Uhh...

No drop items all of a sudden are worth having on item loot server, its a lot of fun getting obscure no drop items just to fill out slots with unlootable junk items.

I think designing no drop lower level armor sets (like ivy etched) and the like would make for some fun quests that are actually worth doing.

But disabling all no drop items is stupid.

Manastone users take a big hit in item loot because they now have to waste a primary hand slot with a statless piece of gear when using it.

Primary/Secondary/Range items were only lootable in the very early days of eqPVP and were quickly switched to being non lootable. I don't think that is a worry here since P99 is no longer a classic EQ simulator.

[Kastro]

You are seriously comparing EQ with active duty combat? Who gets fear and adrenaline from PvP in this game where spells cast in 4+ secs and jousting happens in 3+ sec per swing intervals? It isn't "visceral" and it never was. For jousters, it is timing, for casters it is positioning and resource management. EQ is quite possibly the very worst foundation upon which to build this fabled game system where getting PKd in game feels like getting "PKd Irl"

Psychologically, you are likely to make worse rational(timing or resource management) decisions while afraid or hyped up on adrenaline. So really, the feelings that you associate with better PvP are actually qualities that would be characteristic of a poor player. Your highest value(a strong emotional interaction with the game) is a proven liability. Whatever crazy emotional input you need, which is what you are really looking for, you won't find it in EQ, ever. Not even if we just did a straight re run of the Discord server, which would probably be better than 95% of the shitty ideas that have been dumped on this board.

I played RZ for years and switched to SZ when it opened, and SZ was much, much more fun and engaging. SZ was flat out more challenging. XP loss meant people cared if they died and players wore resist gear so PvP wasn't just a matter of clicking 1 three times. RZ players just refused to adapt to a tougher environment and instead clung to the ego connections they made with killshots they collected on undergeared/no-drop scrubs.

Maybe not for you... for me it was the same feeling..

I recall thinking... oh wow, I've felt this before...

The EXPERIENCE was vastly different... the FEELING was eerily Similar...

and Yes the Poker comparison is so much more apt... and the reason Item Loot as we are stating would work... is people tend to forget the losses as long as they occasionally win and can play again ( make sure drop rates and spawn rates are good, and no items get nerfed, so nothing priceless is ever lost )