The Comprehensive Nilbog Thread

[Lowlife]

I primarily played on a pve server. When it was down, or I was bored, or camped to a chat room for assuredly x+ hours, I would play on Rallos. I made it to around level 38 or so as an ogre warrior. I casually made some classes on the other servers.

Ideally, and what I personally want are the best additions of all of the pvp servers. Some had item loot, some had teams, some had no drops removed, some had language restrictions, etc. We have a community of people who played on all of them, so limiting it to one is discounting potential playerbases and features. Before the server is launched, and in the decision-making process, we have limitless possibilities.

Teams - sold/happening. Over time, I think teams add to the playerbase in short term and long term. Provides a native barrier against one guild consisting of any class/race combination.

Item loot - in some capacity. Should at minimum have a trial period. More features, more fun.

No drop/droppable - Interested to hear opinions.

Language barrier - players not of your team can not understand what you say. Discuss.

Global faction loss - kill an elf player, and faction with elves has gotten worse. Discuss.

What other, server specific rulesets should be discussed?

Post your replies.

Teams -

Item loot -

No drop/droppable -

Language barrier -

Global faction loss -

Other -

[Lowlife]

Teams - Rep yo city by Aenor

Item loot - randomized, with a 65% chance to lose equipped, 35% to lose bagged. Global YT announcement of item lost.

No drop/droppable - FV rules. No no drops. Except epics, maybe jboots?

Language barrier - Agreed. Also 1 team per IP.

Global faction loss - Agreed. If teams are based on race or city and not deity based.

[Rec]

language barrier and global faction loss seem like so easy compared to talking about item loot

[Retti_]

Teams - YAW

Item loot - YAW

No drop/droppable - NO DROPS STAY NO DROP

Language barrier - YAW

Global faction loss - YAW

Other - unban Rettiwalk

[Tikku82]

Teams - YAW

Item loot - YAW

No drop/droppable - NO DROPS STAY NO DROP

Language barrier - YAW

Global faction loss - YAW

Other - unban Rettiwalk

If no drop stays no drop, then there is nothing to loot in a long term. Everyone will have planar gear. Boring.
Making almost every item droppable is the way to go.

OR let them be NODROP, but still you can loot them from corpse. That would prevent trading them. Just off looting.

[Millburn]

Teams - Don't rightfully care outside of there being 3 with all shorties on one of them.

Item loot - No-Drop removed, Random item drops (65% Equipped, 35% Inventory), Global YT with kill and item dropped.

No drop/droppable - No-Drop Removed for almost everything, keep it on epics and keys.

Language barrier - YESSSSSSSSSSS Give us a reason to level language skills.

Global faction loss - I'm not quite sure on this, I like the IDEA of it but I feel like we need to discuss it more to get a feel for what consequences it may have.

[Retti_]

People will have to work with their team to raid planar otherwise the zones will be empty. Also much harder pve content when half naked.

I would think large scale team wars over planar and other no drop loot camps would be a really good time.

[Colgate]

yes to everything

[Salem Orchid]

yes to everything but teams

[SamwiseRed]

Looting no drop lul

[Potus]

Post your replies.

Teams - Yes.

Item loot - No.

No drop/droppable - Haha No.

Language barrier - Go play WoW.

Global faction loss - HAHA what the fuck no.

Other - Please stop with this shit.

[nilbog]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowlife http://www.project1999.org/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1191771#post1191771)
Post your replies.

Teams - Yes.

Item loot - No.

No drop/droppable - Haha No.

Language barrier - Go play WoW.

Global faction loss - HAHA what the fuck no.

Other - Please stop with this shit.



Need to see all suggestions.

It's open discussion so anyone has the chance to make suggestions.

[Millburn]

If you ever wanna feel better about your own life just go through fredschnarf's posting history (keep in mind it's all from November) and realize how much better you have it.

[Lowlife]

I partially agree with you, and partially agree with Vex on this one.

Ok, so let's assume planar armor is suddenly droppable. How does that reduce zergs? All that does is incentivize the mass farming of Hate and Fear in order to stockpile huge reserves of replacement armor. What type of guild can best accomplish this? Take a wild guess.

What is your 6 man guild going to do when the 40 man zerg guild on the enemy team rolls in and farms Hate or Fear every night? Hope that they sell you, their enemy, the armor you need? And then loot it back off your corpse when they zerg roll you?

Further, by making planar armor droppable, you not only encourage the formation of zerg guilds, but their continued existence indefinitely. Since their gear will never be secure, people will have an incentive to join the guild with the largest reserve of replacement gear. And again, take a wild guess as to which sort of guild that will be. On the other hand, with no drop gear, a player can join a zerg guild to gear up and then leave if he wants. With everything droppable, he's more likely to stick around with the zerg.

Have you ever actually played on a Teams server? All of your ideas and justifications seem to be based on RZ, various emus and Red. This makes your obsession with stopping zergs understandable, but you're sort of attempting to solve a problem that doesn't exist on a Teams server (or which exists, but to a much smaller degree).

However, if each team can muster its own zerg, then you could potentially have massive plane wars, and plane raids remain relevant for much, much longer periods of time. But it discourages smaller guilds within a team.

[Velerin]

I think the biggest issue from all these threads really has nothing to do with item loot. Everyone is afraid of everyone being on 1 team and there being no real pvp. That can happen with or without item loot, in fact item loot will probably have no bearing on the 'zerg problem'.

The most important things seem really simple:
1) have enough people on the server to fill 3 teams (hopefully somewhat equal)
2) have at least 3 strong leaders with 3 good pve guilds to rally each team

There sure seems like enough of y'all that hate each other to take 3 factions. Just make sure the factions are relatively balanced. Each side pick a captain and start recruiting.

If you have 3 teams with fairly equal people you're gonna get good consistent fun pvp item loot or no item loot, no drop or drop.

The best part of classic eq is gear doesn't make or break you for pvp (at least not nearly as much as it did in later expansions) A "walmart" lvl 60 vs a high end lvl 60 in classic can still be a good fight (not like a 65 0AA cap geared vs a 65 500AA time geared with double hp/ac/etc in PoP)

And also someone else made a good point too that in teams you'll have the top 'good' guild helping out the casual 'good' guilds in raids etc since those guys will be there allies on the battlefield unlike FFA pvp.

[Danger]

teams are the way to go, do racewar
get rid of no drop items.
item loot, idk what kind
language barrier, except maybe shout? ppl will just use emotes to communicate locally.
no to cultural faction loss, it just makes epics etc a pain in the dick
other? +/- 4. no training, 1 IP=1 Team, xteaming nerds like rallyd, and other nilly scum should recieve the same penelty as 2boxing.

[runlvlzero]

Post your replies.

Teams -

Item loot -

No drop/droppable -

Language barrier -

Global faction loss -

Other -

I'll play... (your game lowlife)


Teams - 3, Aenor, let players pick based off of city, I think in titanium you can even select the city, at char select for this.

Item loot - Nah (but full FV style, hardcore UO style item loot would be boss, the "pvpers" would QQ moar, the nerds couldn't hang, would be pop 8 with neckbeards only)

No drop/droppable - Is this related to above? If Item loot shit should be droppable, should be no way to become "too good for item loot" + trivial loot code, make people camp items on risky chars or alts

Language barrier - Yeah, why not?

Global faction loss - Yes, and enemy teams should start MAX KOS in your home town

Other - let everyone start at level 49. 1 char, one team only per MAC, ban people who use hax to change MAC. Send a code to the client to ID everyone when they log in. Could be some hex/hash or spellfiledata thing. Dunno, would be really cool if this could actually ever work.

Otherwise that would be cool in an ideal world. For a unique pvp server that both casuals (start at 49), (1 char, repuptation, community), (rpers), and (pvpers) would enjoy.

Take out YT... so bad. Keep leaderboard for the neckbeards. Abstract it so it's not some in game thing driving motivation.

[fredschnarf]

Oh, large scale wars. Yeah, we saw what happened with that. Bear in mind, anyone who doesn't know (Maybe Nilbog), this player - Rettiwalk - is a current member of Nihilum, he was also one of the original members who left and said it was a giant zerg and then when he wanted to start playing again, came crawling back to Nizzar to get back on the loot gravy train.

Lets be very clear with what planar gear is, planar gear (no drop) is the holy grail of item loot servers. Lets also be very clear with what Nihilum is, they are a zerg that has spent 2 years powerleveling and gearing up players from wherever they can find them to continue raiding.

Is the outcome not obvious enough? At some point (and it might not be Nihilum), a zerg is going to be built that is unrivaled. What will teams matter when you're a level 20, and you can delete your character and in a day be powerleveled and geared out by a giant zerg? Does anyone really believe teams will matter if it comes down to that? Red99 has established that a majority of players who hit end game have no balls of their own and are willing to be led around the loot feeding troughs by one master.

So again, what happens when the only bottleneck in all of classic everquest is the holy grail of item loot servers? I wager it would be a zerg way bigger than the current formation of Nihilum. Rettiwalk - as a current member of Nihilum, I can understand why you would want that type of server.

I, personally, and I think Nilbog would agree, don't want a dead server in 3 months. If no drops are still in game, it will take 3 months to level up and recruit a massive zerg to blot out the sun of Teams99. My fingers hurt re-writing this shit, but until someone comes up with a better way to stop the zerg mentality, I will say that removing no drop items from the vast majority of items out there is the only way.

Let me remind everyone something too, the best pvp items in the game are generally droppable. That's right, the vast majority of the best pvp items are ALREADY DROPPABLE. Think of how many items go to waste on a normal plane of fear raid, rot/rot/rot/loot/rot/rot/loot. Now think of those items as your secondary backups incase you get Pk'd, or as items you can sell or trade to players. Now if a zerg forms up and raids everything, small groups have the ability to fight end game and steal some of those items. The best case scenario is that a zerg simply wouldn't form, but lets just say the hold is too strong, now small groups can fight back. On any other server they would either be destined to have to join up with the zerg or quit.

I just don't see any other way this server makes it past 3 months without removing almost every no drop (epics, plane of sky haste belts, peg cloaks, jboots, some others should remain no drop).



****History lesson: Rallos Zek had a huge problem with zerg bluebie guilds. Anyone from the 1999 era will tell you. Once people got their no drop gear, they had no more risk involved in PVP, while if you were stuck with droppables you generally had no reward and all the risk. So the zergs got the benefit of easilly zerging down the planes for no drop, and then in any pvp encounter they would have the chance to loot other peoples items but generally had only no drop items themselves. This is what Teams99 is destined the same of... it's not fun.

i wonder if anyone reads these huge posts?

[Retti_]

Oh, large scale wars. Yeah, we saw what happened with that. Bear in mind, anyone who doesn't know (Maybe Nilbog), this player - Rettiwalk - is a current member of Nihilum, he was also one of the original members who left and said it was a giant zerg and then when he wanted to start playing again, came crawling back to Nizzar to get back on the loot gravy train.

Lets be very clear with what planar gear is, planar gear (no drop) is the holy grail of item loot servers. Lets also be very clear with what Nihilum is, they are a zerg that has spent 2 years powerleveling and gearing up players from wherever they can find them to continue raiding.

Is the outcome not obvious enough? At some point (and it might not be Nihilum), a zerg is going to be built that is unrivaled. What will teams matter when you're a level 20, and you can delete your character and in a day be powerleveled and geared out by a giant zerg? Does anyone really believe teams will matter if it comes down to that? Red99 has established that a majority of players who hit end game have no balls of their own and are willing to be led around the loot feeding troughs by one master.

So again, what happens when the only bottleneck in all of classic everquest is the holy grail of item loot servers? I wager it would be a zerg way bigger than the current formation of Nihilum. Rettiwalk - as a current member of Nihilum, I can understand why you would want that type of server.

I, personally, and I think Nilbog would agree, don't want a dead server in 3 months. If no drops are still in game, it will take 3 months to level up and recruit a massive zerg to blot out the sun of Teams99. My fingers hurt re-writing this shit, but until someone comes up with a better way to stop the zerg mentality, I will say that removing no drop items from the vast majority of items out there is the only way.

Let me remind everyone something too, the best pvp items in the game are generally droppable. That's right, the vast majority of the best pvp items are ALREADY DROPPABLE. Think of how many items go to waste on a normal plane of fear raid, rot/rot/rot/loot/rot/rot/loot. Now think of those items as your secondary backups incase you get Pk'd, or as items you can sell or trade to players. Now if a zerg forms up and raids everything, small groups have the ability to fight end game and steal some of those items. The best case scenario is that a zerg simply wouldn't form, but lets just say the hold is too strong, now small groups can fight back. On any other server they would either be destined to have to join up with the zerg or quit.

I just don't see any other way this server makes it past 3 months without removing almost every no drop (epics, plane of sky haste belts, peg cloaks, jboots, some others should remain no drop).



****History lesson: Rallos Zek had a huge problem with zerg bluebie guilds. Anyone from the 1999 era will tell you. Once people got their no drop gear, they had no more risk involved in PVP, while if you were stuck with droppables you generally had no reward and all the risk. So the zergs got the benefit of easilly zerging down the planes for no drop, and then in any pvp encounter they would have the chance to loot other peoples items but generally had only no drop items themselves. This is what Teams99 is destined the same of... it's not fun.

http://www.gurl.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/computing.gif

[Chronoburn]

Teams - SZish ... Vex's suggestion is pretty good.

Item loot - No. I will play either way but I think Item loot will deter a good chunk of potential players. Plus, everyone will role caster .... solid groups will be hard to come by.

No drop/droppable -Yes. If item loot is in .... All or nothing

Language barrier - Yes/No. Yes-Might prevent a small % of pop from team hopping. No-It's fun talking shit.

Global faction loss - Maybe ... I guess this depends on how team's are setup. Back on SZ, dark elves could be newt/evil .... would be pretty retarded being KOS in your hometown just because the opposing faction has the same playable race.

Other - Item Loot is a mistake. T99 is going to need a substantially larger population than Red99 to be successful. I don't think Item loot will help.

[Potus]

Need to see all suggestions.

It's open discussion so anyone has the chance to make suggestions.

I'm experiencing a lot of Poe's Law the past few days here so I'm not taking most of the suggestions seriously.

What would be different about the server here that'd make Item Loot successful? It didn't work on live for a variety of reasons -- mainly gank squads, inherent imbalanced between casters and melees early on, the general lack of risk versus reward, the imbalance between time required to get some gear and then instantly losing it.

I'm curious how a new server would address those issues? I can't see a warrior sticking around after losing his Crafted Breastplate or his weapon and then having to go recamp the items.

As to the other suggestions, they're just bad for reasons I don't really need to expand upon.

[One Tin Soldier]

Teams -Yes

Item loot -Yes, so far the random selection idea seems like the best.

No drop/droppable -remove all no drop tags from all items. If you use it you should have to risk losing it.

Language barrier -I'm ok with it either way. I can ignore trash talk from enemies but some people might be driven away by it.

Global faction loss -I would say yes if it doesn't cause problems. Depending on what the teams are it might make it hard for some people to buy some of their spells. But in general it does make sense, if you kill a Halfling player you should take a faction hit with Halfling NPCs.

[Tassador]

i wonder if anyone reads these huge posts?

Never read one of these. Forums have yet to progress to bullet points yet.

[Lowlife]

whats funny is the design intent behind this thread WAS bullet points.

Post your replies.

Teams -

Item loot -

No drop/droppable -

Language barrier -

Global faction loss -

Other -

people just said fuck that and either wrote nonsensical >140 characters of nothing or walls of text.

[Nirgon]

Random item system will be abused some how.

I kill someone with a tranix crown, get a 7mr bracer

They kill me, get a tranix crown

Sounds bad

Or

Make sure bags are always filled with garbage items or always have at least 1 garbage item to lower probability of something good being taken

Item loot hurts RMT, this is a good thing

DrScience (presumably the coach) PLAYED ON RALLOS. DURING THE CLASSIC TRILOGY ERA. My God, I say to myself, someone who played has more to say than "item loot dum" or "item loot mite be gud if reel classic", imagine that.

didn't work on live for a variety of reasons -- mainly gank squads

Completely, 100% wrong. It worked on live. PvP died when you could resist lures even (yes, you actually could if you had 500+ of said resist) or when everything became no drop. Seeing "your target resisted the lure of ro spell" was absolutely comical. There were no mechanics, most classes were useless, there was no risk or reward.

Some people's fat hearts can't take too much excitement, and I'm sure the adrenaline from an item loot server would have many here dead on the floor in a pool of diet coke and Little Debbie's.

[Dullah]

Item loot worked before, will work again.

Cantwait

[Lowlife]

How exactly is that "abused" and not simply, unfair?

[Nirgon]

When I make a pizza, I don't say to myself...

"Hm, I should try to experiment with this and dump chocolate syrup all over it"

[Nytch]

Teams - 3 teams, even on SZ the Good Team (weakest/underpopulated team) was able to accomplish some stuff and even drew in new players who wanted to be the "underdog". Yes you will run into a balancing issue but it wont be any worse than a 2 team server. Plus it will give the 2 weaker teams a reason to "work together" to stop raids if one team becomes to dominate.

Item loot - I understand many hardcore PvPers want this, but blue pixel farmers and more casual players are going to either quit or just not join the server because of this and then we will have a population about the same size as R99. If you decide to go item loot, it needs to be random from the player who dies and no weapons, this will cripple any melee and probably make them rage quit....or everyone will roll a druid/wiz and we all know there is going to be an over abundance of those classes on a new PvP server anyway.

No drop/droppable - If you have item loot, keep no drops in the game. Again someone spends 20 hours of his/her life raiding for gear or camping an item just have have it looted. Rage quit and /wrist inc. If you have coin loot only in PvP you could make everything droppable to help encourage guilds to hand out gear to their guidmates to strengthen the overall guild, but I see some greedy people taking advantage of this and emptying guild banks if they have a falling out or decide to re roll to another team...also with a low population this would blow up the economy when people are trying to sell raid gear for crazy high prices.

Language barrier - Only able to communicate with the other teams via "say" or "emote" that way other people can see if some prick is spying on your guild and helping the other team. Yes they can always go to a remote area so no one can see their text but at least it limits to where they can talk. No tells/trades/buffs cross team. If you are going to make it so everyone can only have 1 toon per account I would even make it so you can not drop bags on the ground. You wont be twinking out alts with only 1 toon allowed so this would discourage people from dropping gear on the ground for another team to pick up and will also penalize them if they want to quit on their team to re roll onto another team.

Global faction loss - To much of a PITA when it comes to epics I would leave this out, unless you want to make it faction loss only if you kill them in their home city?? Not sure if you can code that or not??

Other - Remove global OOC, it is a cancer to any server and just pisses people off, and makes them leave. You can have Team channels to communicate to anyone on your team if you want. You can still broadcast PvP deaths globally if you want but every time someone dies on Red all you see is a huge wall of green text for 10 mins after arguing over how someone hacked or is cheating in some way shape or form. Remove that crap, the only people that want that are the tool bags that ruined R99. Also I would just keep No Drops in the game, having everything droppable complicates things way to much.

[HippoNipple]

Teams - I like a 3 team system with the over powering team, evil, being chaotic and being a FFA team

Item loot - Loot 1 item, any item, in bags or not

No drop/droppable - Take off the no drop label on most items. Most items quested or items not worn with clickies should remain no drop or given the no drop tag (manastone, jboots, guise mask, quested clickies like the wizard debuff temple staff, necro book, etc.)

Language barrier - Allow players to understand all players talking in common tongue. If you want to talk in your racial tongue the player will have to have the skill to understand it. Also, have /ooc only talk to your team. Even though I suggested evil be FFA, allow them to talk to each other in /ooc.

Global faction loss - indifferent

[Fawqueue]

When I make a pizza, I don't say to myself...

"Hm, I should try to experiment with this and dump chocolate syrup all over it"

But you might say "I wonder what a dab of chocolate syrup would taste like on this" and add a few droplets.

That's what I hope Nilbog is aiming for. Not the scare-the-blue-players-away loot systems that hardcore PvP fans love. But just a little pinch to see how it goes. And if it's awesome, maybe expand it little-by-little until he finds the right balance.

[Millburn]

When I make a pizza, I don't say to myself...

"Hm, I should try to experiment with this and dump chocolate syrup all over it"

You've obviously never had mole sauce.

http://poweredbyfrijoles.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/IMGP3613.png

[Nirgon]

Just by a glance at your sigquest, I will never be taking cooking advice from you.

[Millburn]

Haha!

No seriously though Mole sauce is really really good. Make it with some grilled chicken and then put that shit on pizza with some fresh mozzarella and parmesan. Oh damn.

[Nirgon]

Is that what that chicken is marinating in? I had a picture of scummy teeth taken away, but this... this is A-OK.

[HippoNipple]

But you might say "I wonder what a dab of chocolate syrup would taste like on this" and add a few droplets.

That's what I hope Nilbog is aiming for. Not the scare-the-blue-players-away loot systems that hardcore PvP fans love. But just a little pinch to see how it goes. And if it's awesome, maybe expand it little-by-little until he finds the right balance.

This has already been discussed to death in other threads. These aren't hardcore PvP rules. They scare off some people because they haven't tried it and don't understand how bad PvP servers can get without these rules. The rules are not put in there to grief but to shape the end game dynamic between small guilds and large zergs. If devs shape the server because of a few blue players being scared to make the plunge and lose their chain mail leggings the server will suck.

Very few players on here want "hardcore" winner takes all rules in PvP. The ones shooting for item loot and no no drop items are trying to avoid being steam rolled by large zergs.

You will have teams to back you up. No one will be alone on this server. You will have the best players on your team backing you up every time someone comes at you. If you lose something I don't think it would be abnormal for a high level on your team to come to your aid and give you an item from their bank.

It will bring teams together and encourage unity. If there is nothing to lose then everyone just acts like dicks and PvP/PvE becomes meaningless. PvE is so dumbed down and there is nothing the devs can do about it because people know the content to well. PvP can make a server fun every time you log in.

[Millburn]

Nah Mole sauce is a thick savory chocolate ... thing ... It comes out really thick like a glaze almost when you cook stuff in it.

That disgusting shit in my signature is chicken in a can. Also delicious...but in the way that stinky cheese is delicious.

[Rec]

experimenting with chocolate syrup on pizza is fine. It's when you expect other people other than yourself to eat it is where you run into a problem.

[Alecta]

Nah Mole sauce is a thick savory chocolate ... thing ... It comes out really thick like a glaze almost when you cook stuff in it.

Yar, but there's a lot more to moles than the mole negro. If you're ever in Oaxaca (or probably a lot of southern Mexico), they have mole tasting menus.

Would highly recommend.

[Millburn]

If I ever find myself in Mexico I will pursue the shit out of that.

All we get here in Michigan is the mole negro that's stocked in the international aisle. I could definitely try some off amazon though I'm sure. Do you have any in particular you would recommend?

[Alecta]

http://www.foodrepublic.com/2012/08/15/7-moles-oaxaca

Got a decent run down there of some of the major types, but I havent tried any commercially prepared ones. Most of restaurants will have house moles that vary from place to place. Had some solid rojo, verde, and guess manchamantel ones.

[Nirgon]

Take that discussion to off topic, moles

[Alecta]

You started it, Mr. Chocolate Pizza Sauce Analogy Man!

(And now I really want some mole.)

-----
Now returning to your 5,000 posts of regularly scheduled horse beating.

[Nirgon]

It's 12k, you mole and the classic horse needs a vigorous beating around here.

Good to have you on board, I find myself giving fucks about things again. Hopefully you've got a thicker skin than the average casual PoP player around here.

[Retti_]

Mole on pizza ur a sick fuck

Nirgons point still true

[Old_PVP]

Teams - Teams are a must obviously. 3 team rulesets are the best. 2 team just leads to one of them dominating and then all the sheeple will reroll to the winning side. 3rd team is the balancing factor. As far as 3 team rulesets, SZ style was nice, but I would honestly be happy with any 3 team setup.

Item loot - YES, for various reasons that have been discussed to death. Randomized item looting was a pretty good idea brought up in another thread. This will minimize the risk of traditional item loot, and make it easier to swallow for most people.

No drop/droppable - Make it ALL droppable, FV style. (Except certain items like epics, or other high end questables) NO-DROP systems lead to everyone being cookie cutter replicates of each other because of course no one wants to wear droppables when there is the option of NO-DROP.

The people that are against removing NO-DROP and making everything droppable can't come to terms with the fact that they may lose some of their hard earned pixels, because they were counting on the NO-DROP gear as a safety net. They are struggling against their inner bluebie.

If everything is made droppable, this also opens up alternatives to bluebie raids on XYZ boss. Now hardcore pvpers can get high end raid gear without having to be in a raid guild, by looting other players, or even buying it.

The removal of NO-DROP tags will lead to better quality pvp, since more people will have access to high end gear, hardcore raiders, random pkers, and casuals alike. Also ALL gear under this system would be devalued, which will lead to more people actually wearing gear on an item loot server. ALL Droppable gear = better pvp and better economy for the server.

Language barrier - YES, with a team channel. Give people a reason to learn languages and remove common tongue. I don't think it should be impossible to understand an enemy, however you need to put the work into learning the language first. It also makes logical sense, a dumbass troll would not know how to communicate with a dwarf right off the bat.

Global faction loss - YES, global faction loss creates an atmosphere of warfare. It makes people say "fuck that whole race, and if I am pking elves consistently, I might as well murder their guards too." This is good for a pvp server, it reinforces the whole team dynamic. PVP servers need an atmosphere of total war. Take no prisoners, and give no mercy. If trolls and dark elves are your enemy, it makes no sense to be able to do business with Grobb and Neriak.

Other - TBA

[Nirgon]

Teams - 3rd team usually so small, it is ignored and typicall the "good" not neutral or evil team.

Item loot - random? I kill someone at random and get tcrown, they kill me back and at random get 7mr bracer? Not good.

No drop/non droppable - monk epic OK to be looted? Dunno FV style, haven't looked it up. Probably not the best idea, esp when random.

Language barrier - not the worst idea.

Global faction loss - So I can't bank in freeport? Sounds like I should make a half elf and go attack everyone so if they kill me in return they can't use the bank anymore. I like to get Neriak faction using the wine quest on most of my chars. Does that mean I shouldn't fight back against attacking DE's?

Classic system is still best and was carefully decided. Alecta still top mole.

[fredschnarf]

0 fucks still given

nirgon still caring 2 years later

nothing achieved

[Kastro]

Ok here is a compile of most of what I've got to say on this issue, I believe my suggestions would bring back PVP, Make the Team Server Fun, and allow Smaller Guilds to Thrive...



**** Item Loot: 2 Different Options that would work.. Both with Firona Vie Loot Rules
As they Apply here: >>>The Trivial Loot Code will be in effect in all zones.
Very few items will be No-Drop. Exceptions will include things such as newbie notes and epic weapons.
Bind Affinity will be restricted for all characters to locations where melee characters can bind on other servers.
/emote will be language specific<<<<<

*** The First Option is Rallos Zek Rules except only the killer or in "exp" group can loot... and anyone can lock it by right clicking ... closing... so your friends can protect your corpse.... Or only killer can lock could work also.. either way.. BY Rallos Zek rules, just everything but epics, Primary, secondary , range, and certain quest rewards lootable ( need to make sure these are one of items, not whole sets ect, like armor )

*** Option 2 is everything is droppable till you loot it, then it is attuned and is now no drop... anything in Inventory, even in bags is lootable if it has not been worn... So only stuff you were going to sell, trade, or give away are going to get ganked for the most part...

Both options make it unnecessary to join an Uber guild to compete... as all the loot you need outside epics will be available from PVP, Friends, or Trading... on the plus side for uber guilds... they can gear out new players pretty quickly if they decide to... but then of course those players can leave, quit, change guilds, or just lose some of that gear during PVP...


Because players will end up losing " pre-nerf" items in PVP... Just never institute any item nerfs besides maybe adding the nerfed to the loot table, but keep original drop... like Pre Nerf COS, Fungi Greatstaff, Guise, Manastone... Ect... It will keep all the old school zones like lower guk, Najena, Highkeep, ect very relevent...
Also since it is an Item loot server, increase all rare drop rates, and decrease spawn time of rares and Uber mobs... so Dragons on lets say 36 or 60 Hour Spawn cycle ( have it alternate 12 hours so not on the same time... )

As far as Level Limits, Looting and FFA zones... I have a Compromise:

6 Levels in all zones .... EXCEPT in Zones where a Dragon or God is Spawned... Serverwide message goes out maybe 30 minutes prior.. and at like 5 minutes prior to spawn PVP range goes Free for all... but Item looting still stays at 6 levels... EXCEPT when a lower level KILLS a Higher Level.... ( this would not be put in place till after the Dragon or God is Killed for the First Time )


Level lock the server.. so Neckbeards don't exploit it to 50 in 2 weeks and players quit... lock to 10 or so levels per week till 50 then keep Kunark, ect locked till All Sky content downed then unlock at like 2 levels per week till 60

Can do Good VS Evil and a third Red Team ( Outcast, Rebel )... Or a more balanced approach would be a east VS West or something... I think it is important all teams have access to every class... But that's just me... As long as the teams don't suck... The loot system is the most important thing...

Has any server done region-based teams?

example 2 teams.. this is a rough example, plz excuse bad photoshop

http://i41.tinypic.com/23l12ck.jpg

West side:
Erudites
Barbarians
Humans - Qeynos
Half Elves - Qeynos
Dark Elves
Ogres

East side:
High Elves
Gnomes
Dwarves
Trolls
Wood Elves
Half Elves - Kelethin
Iksar

Freeport - Point of contention. Humans spawning here can ally to either side.(?)

Just curious how this would play out.

West = Blue

East = Yellow or Orange...

Maybe have Iksars on both Teams... East Cabalis Vs West Cabb..

Can use them to make sure both teams have access to all classes.. and neither owns Kunark...


Outcast ( those who turn in POD book ) = Red

So the third team is available to those who want to be able to kill everyone not on their team... they are just KOS in all starting cities.... ( no one creates a toon on this team, you leave your team and are joined to this one... any Red Player can Kill and Loot any other Player in their level range that is not in their own guild)

They are ok in places like Highkeep, Overthere, FV... ect...



The Red team is so lets say... 2/3 server rolls west.. and 1/3 rolls east... and on West team there are 2 strong guilds that are competing for content... if they cannot come to an agreement... or start training each other... one can flag red... Invite a few friends from West Team and kill them...

On the other hand... RED team has no starting cities and is KOS in all of them... maybe have a mechanic where there is some PVP sickness or minor Exp loss after PVP death that can only be cure by hailing a certain NPC in one of your Teams Cities... So the advantage is to stay on a team... but another very viable option is to go red if you dont like how it is shaken out...

How do you think people on Evil Team on Sullon Zek felt about being essentially locked out from the cutting edge content by members of their own team? SO with this ruleset.. there is never an excuse to train members of your team... you always have the option to leave....

This solves that....Makes it to where the advantage is to stay on a starting team... but in some instances it might make sense to go red... even if just for a time period...

Just make sure there is a lockout period of at least a week ( 3 weeks would be better) and make it somewhat expensive to rejoin your team ( have to farm NPC heads, Turn in Plat, and at least one full EXP sacrifice... )

Think of Vallon Zek and Tallon Zek History.. at the end of the day the Ubers want to group together.... They Xteamed.... So why not just let them.. and just add a penalty and take away any safety from a team they may have... so instead of the uber guild being immune from the rest of their team.. if other team members dont like it they can go Red and Fight them.... Allows some fluidity to the server,, yet gives players a sense of team and safety while leveling up.... and they can keep it that way at top level and have the safety of Guards protecting them when they are just hanging out... they Reds will not have that option...

And really with Firona View/ Rallos Zek Loot rules Zerg Guilding will only take you so far... smaller well organized guilds will do just fine harvesting the Zerg Players for Gear.... Again think of Tallon Zek... Did Pandemonium Start Before or AFTER item loot was removed... same on Vallon Zek....
And Really the Bluebieness of Rallos Zek was driven by No DROP...

Hell even think of VZTZ... it wasnt until Item Loot was removed that Reviction was Formed ( Heresy and Core TZT crew )

[Retti_]

how about not global faction loss, but actual los faction loss

didnt RZ have that?

kill an elf, lose elf faction when guards see u do it?

[Potus]

how about not global faction loss, but actual los faction loss

didnt RZ have that?

kill an elf, lose elf faction when guards see u do it?

It was actually kill anyone in their home city and you lost faction.

It turned Greater Faydark into a blue sanctuary overnight (sadly it was one of the best places for gnomes and dwarves to beat up elves). Gutted pvp in Freeport as well.

I guess Verant was sick of people getting killed at the bank.

[Nirgon]

Add this to red first ^

[Lowlife]

Launch a red copy beta server. and test as we go.

[Aenor]

Classic item loot is imbalanced and gives a huge advantage to neckbeards because they already have the advantage of being able to play 20 hours a day. Once they reach planar level with their zerglings, their already huge advantage gets magnafied by the ability to gear out in no drop armor.

The only way to level the playing field is to make all primary slots except jewelry unlootable. That way the nerds at the top of the food chain don't destroy the flow of new players that all servers require lest they count backwards to zero.

Launch a red copy beta server. and test as we go.

Ready to test all ruleset ideas. Frequent wipes are ok.

[Danger]

Classic item loot is imbalanced and gives a huge advantage to neckbeards because they already have the advantage of being able to play 20 hours a day. Once they reach planar level with their zerglings, their already huge advantage gets magnafied by the ability to gear out in no drop armor. .

pras coach. FV style loot. remvoe no drop tags.

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/rocks/dmx%20album%20cover%20hellishot%20may27.jpg

stop. drop. all your no drops.

ooooh. woooah. thats what we need for teams ru-les.

[runlvlzero]

*** Option 2 is everything is droppable till you loot it, then it is attuned and is now no drop... anything in Inventory, even in bags is lootable if it has not been worn... So only stuff you were going to sell, trade, or give away are going to get ganked for the most part... this is really good... keep it simple stupid, and it rewards good pvp.

[Potus]

Classic item loot is imbalanced

Agreed.

[Fawqueue]

The problem with item loot is the divisive nature it brings out in people who are interacting with that mechanic. On one side you have the Bluebs and the Newbs. They prefer or are more accustomed to PvE content either by choice or lack of PvP experience. This group does not enjoy item loot. The thought of losing possessions they value because they are inexperienced with PvP is not a happy one. These players, after a particularly rough couple of sessions, will return to the Blue server and never look back.

On the other side are the Reds. They know how to PvP and they enjoy it. On a fresh server, with an interested population of Bluebs/Newbs, these sharks will gorge themselves on a feeding frenzy of marks who don't know what's coming. They will win the majority of their encounters, gaining far more then they lose. To them item loot is fantastic, because they are already good at the mechanic that provides it.

So once item loot has emptied the server of everyone but Reds, we are back to the abysmal population we see now. But we can avoid that, and still implement item loot, if we create a system that allows both parties to enjoy the aspects of the game they are familiar with. I'll leave that up to Devs to determine what that is, but really as long as players aren't losing their primary gear set I think they can handle taking a death, no matter which side of the fence they fall on.

[Gruktar]

These are my suggestions, most of which have been given before by others. I think the best options are those that compromise between hardcore pvpers and players that still want to experience pvp, but tend to lean more towards pve (people coming from blue).

Teams - 3 teams, with the evil team being FFA. This allows the hardcore pvpers to roll evil and murder to their hearts content, while allowing those that want a less intense pvp experience to roll neut or good.

Item loot - Yes, I think item loot is a good idea. Make it random and exclude primary, secondary, ranged slots, and no drop (see below). It should include items in bags and all other slots. When a player is killed by another player the RNG could exclude non-lore/non-magic items below a certain vendor value (or some other value assigned to items, like item level) when determining what should be looted. This would make it harder for a player to fill up their inventory with junk.

The value used to consider if an item is "junk" increases as the player levels, meaning less valuable items will be excluded from being looted by another player the higher level you are.

So for example, say a level 10 player is killed and has an inventory full of cloth armor. Because of the player's level, cloth would not be considered "junk" for the purpose of random pvp looting and could be given as item loot to the player that killed them. Any nice items that player has still have a chance to be looted.

Now lets say a level 60 character is killed and has an inventory full of cloth armor, but also a few nice pieces. Because of the player's level, cloth armor would be considered "junk" and not selected by the RNG, leaving only the nice pieces for it to select from.

This makes the risk and reward lower for new players that are still learning the ropes, and higher for those that have achieved max level (and harder for them to fill up slots with junk loot, or at least more expensive).

No drop/droppable - No drop items should exist. Not only is this a good compromise for people coming from blue ("We have item loot, but its possible if you spend enough time and work hard to get items that cant be taken from you"), but it also helps out melee who are more gear dependent.

Language barrier - Yes, I love the idea of a language barrier not only for the pvp benefits, but to make the game more immersive (and give language skills some meaning).

Global faction loss - I think this could add a really interesting dynamic to PvP, but it should be coded so that only the player who engages first loses the faction.

What I am thinking is this. I am an ogre and, after many rough days of faction work in enemy territory, max my faction with halflings. I can then enter Rivervale to chill with the little ones. If I try to attack and kill anyone I will take a pretty hard faction hit and be unable to enter the city without working on my faction again. However, if I am sitting there being a nice ogre and one of the halfling players tries to kill me, I can defend myself and kill them without a faction loss (or die trying).

[Nirgon]

Oh no not the huge advantage of a suit of no drop planar gear.

[Danger]

Oh no not the huge advantage of a suit of no drop planar gear.

f no drawpz

[Agatha]

ever since i adjusted font fize to 6 on these forums i have stopped reading the threads and just post whatever i want. It makes for a much more enjoyable adventure.

[Millburn]

ever since i adjusted font fize to 6 on these forums i have stopped reading the threads and just post whatever i want. It makes for a much more enjoyable adventure.

I thought the same thing after I put Kimm and Retti on ignore.

Item loot - Yes, I think item loot is a good idea. Make it random and exclude primary, secondary, ranged slots, and no drop (see below). It should include items in bags and all other slots. When a player is killed by another player the RNG could exclude non-lore/non-magic items below a certain vendor value (or some other value assigned to items, like item level) when determining what should be looted. This would make it harder for a player to fill up their inventory with junk.

The value used to consider if an item is "junk" increases as the player levels, meaning less valuable items will be excluded from being looted by another player the higher level you are.

So for example, say a level 10 player is killed and has an inventory full of cloth armor. Because of the player's level, cloth would not be considered "junk" for the purpose of random pvp looting and could be given as item loot to the player that killed them. Any nice items that player has still have a chance to be looted.

Now lets say a level 60 character is killed and has an inventory full of cloth armor, but also a few nice pieces. Because of the player's level, cloth armor would be considered "junk" and not selected by the RNG, leaving only the nice pieces for it to select from.

This makes the risk and reward lower for new players that are still learning the ropes, and higher for those that have achieved max level (and harder for them to fill up slots with junk loot, or at least more expensive).


There's really no reason to try and code this monstrosity of a mechanic when you can just make empty slots part of the raffle for which item is chosen.

[fredschnarf]

same threads over and over , shut up already about teams and item loot