Random item loot and YT

[Lowlife]

Despite what you think about item loot as a whole, I thought this was a pretty cool idea.

[...] i'd say item loot that has a random chance of dropping one of your items in bags/inventory/gear (except main and offhand) could be cool, [...] and the item dropped should be announced in YT so everyone can take the pleasure in seeing the steal.

Especially the YT portion.

"Soandso <Guild A> has slain Someguy <Guild B> in Freeport. Someguy <Guild B> has dropped a Fire Beetle Eye"
or
"Someguy [Evil] has slain Soandso [Neutral] in Qeynos. Soandso [Neutral] has dropped a Flowing Black Silk Sash"

Now seeing as the Devs have referenced custom item loot "We can do it any way we want." but especially random item loot on at least two occasions this variant warrants some extra consideration, because like it or not, nilbog is putting item loot in t99.

So what do you think about Russian roulette item loot with public cheers or jeers over the loot?

[Joseppi]

item loot without yellow text

[Old_PVP]

Despite what you think about item loot as a whole, I thought this was a pretty cool idea.



Especially the YT portion.

Now seeing as the Devs have referenced custom item loot "We can do it any way we want." but especially random item loot on at least two occasions this variant warrants some extra consideration, because like it or not, nilbog is putting item loot in t99.

So what do you think about Russian roulette item loot with public cheers or jeers over the loot?

This is a good compromise to the whole item loot discussion. A person can't just go straight to looting your fungi tunic, but still has a chance of randomly getting it. Also the yellow text idea sounds awesome. We still have item loot, but it minimizes the risk for all the people whining about item loot. A+

[Lowlife]

This is a good compromise to the whole item loot discussion. A person can't just go straight to looting your fungi tunic, but still has a chance of randomly getting it. Also the yellow text idea sounds awesome. We still have item loot, but it minimizes the risk for all the people whining about item loot. A+

I definitely agree. I think this is the best system possible for all parties involved, the YT element is awesome, and can only be achieved through slot machine gambling item loot.

Imagine the anticipation of seeing what you scored as the killer
or the relief/terror of seeing your own YT and what you lost as you res?

the forum quest aspect of this alone is incredible. But as you stated its not so brutal that they're going right for your high dollar gear, so people won't necessarily be naked or bagging shit frantically. Its slightly more bluebie friendly when your chance of losing your Dwarven Ringmail Tunic is as good as it is to lose a stack of Fuzzlecutter Formula 5000s. I'd wear gear under this system, I mean you only YOLO once, namean?

[Smedy]

I would like to see the item lost announced in global, as a community thing it would be amazing.

[Swish]

I would like to see the item lost announced in global, as a community thing it would be amazing.

If item loot is to happen, this would be an excellent custom feature :)

[Danger]

least shitty I.L. idea so far.

[Tikku82]

Server message: Lowlife has just lost a fungi tunic - time to reroll boi

[Rec]

the only real loot is fishing grubs

[Tassador]

Radiation suit needed forum getting toxic.

[Lowlife]

Radiation suit needed forum getting toxic.

i don't think anything is more toxic than pvp exp loss, deleveling people at their bind point shit.

Atleast random loot is all in good fun, and as another poster identified above, its not like someone can go right for your rubi BP. If he gets it, good on him. If he gets a snake skin then you can spam him "enjoy your snake skin faggot" everyone lols and has a good time.

You know those old drunks you see at 7-11 spending their last $40 on tallboys and lotto tickets? Thats proof random item loot works. Like everquest itself, its build on a slot machine model. The immersion will be hueg.

Server message: Lowlife has just lost a fungi tunic - time to reroll boi

The whole server would go apeshit if that happened. It'd be awesome. Grown men unaffiliated with the kill or loot would be twerking in their basements.

[Tassador]

Lowlife I appreciate your post's dude. Was not directed at you broski

[Lowlife]

Lowlife I appreciate your post's dude. Was not directed at you broski

np man, i interpreted your post to indicate you felt that item loot YT would create greater forum toxicity.

[HippoNipple]

When you kill someone you get to choose what you take. Otherwise might as well scrap the whole item loot. Forcing people to fill up backpacks with crap is just annoying. It would be more of a hassle then fun.

I don't see what the problem with RZ rules were, I always enjoyed it. The only idea I have seen here that adds to the fun of RZ rules is Cast's idea of making all no drop items lootable in pvp. That would allow players with more skill and less playtime a more even playing field.

Everyone that thinks only casters would be viable are very naive to this system and it only shows you are promoting things you perceive you would like versus any real experience or valuable insight on the matter.

[Lowlife]

Removing nodrop tags and randomized loot are not mutually exclusive

[Retti_]

Only if arzak can code the randomness

Nawmean

[Lowlife]

combine cast and smed's ideas says i

[canardvc]

When you kill someone you get to choose what you take. Otherwise might as well scrap the whole item loot. Forcing people to fill up backpacks with crap is just annoying. It would be more of a hassle then fun.

I don't see what the problem with RZ rules were, I always enjoyed it. The only idea I have seen here that adds to the fun of RZ rules is Cast's idea of making all no drop items lootable in pvp. That would allow players with more skill and less playtime a more even playing field.

Everyone that thinks only casters would be viable are very naive to this system and it only shows you are promoting things you perceive you would like versus any real experience or valuable insight on the matter.
Randomize item loot, include no drop stuff and bagged stuff. Everyone like surprises even when they are bad. Can't wait to loot VP keyz.

[Millburn]

A latent effect of random item loot would also make it less scary for leveling groups. You're sitting out there killing shit and loot stuff to sell. You're just adding to your buffer. Though I can definitely see people loading up all their slots with stacks of 1 fish grubs in each slot. Which would get rather tiresome.

I like this system the most, especially if we get no drop tags removed. Seems the best to me.

[Lowlife]

im loving this idea even more when combined with no-no drops.

[Kergan]

When you kill someone you get to choose what you take. Otherwise might as well scrap the whole item loot. Forcing people to fill up backpacks with crap is just annoying. It would be more of a hassle then fun.

I don't see what the problem with RZ rules were, I always enjoyed it. The only idea I have seen here that adds to the fun of RZ rules is Cast's idea of making all no drop items lootable in pvp. That would allow players with more skill and less playtime a more even playing field.

Everyone that thinks only casters would be viable are very naive to this system and it only shows you are promoting things you perceive you would like versus any real experience or valuable insight on the matter.

I have as much experience as anyone, and item loot without a shred of doubt gives casters an advantage. That doesn't mean they are the only viable class, but an item loot ruleset clearly favors a class that can wear *0* items and do the same amount of damage. It's very simple to understand.

And why exactly do people who play less deserve an even playing field? And I'm one of those people who don't have the time to play a ton. I spend my time at work instead, and because of that I make more money. I don't see the neckbeards asking for a cut of my paycheck so I won't be asking them for free pixels.

[nilbog]

Pretty cool idea, but if it includes bagged loot: potential problem.. players would keep their inventory/bag slots filled with any droppable for a better % chance of not losing something they want to keep. i.e. keep a stack of fish scales, and make sure all slots are full.

Then, the problem with restricting the random loot to only worn items.. is someone would just bag their items.

[Lowlife]

Pretty cool idea, but if it includes bagged loot: potential problem.. players would keep their inventory/bag slots filled with any droppable for a better % chance of not losing something they want to keep. i.e. keep a stack of fish scales, and make sure all slots are full.

Then, the problem with restricting the random loot to only worn items.. is someone would just bag their items.

the same problems apply to any item loot system. make worn items a greater drop % chance than inventory items, can't bag everything if you're loaded up with fish scales.

also, no-no drops ala FV except epics

[Millburn]

So in the little raffle that determines which item gets dropped make equipped gear more favorable to be picked. Like two entries in the little loot pinata rafle instead of 1.

[One Tin Soldier]

Pretty cool idea, but if it includes bagged loot: potential problem.. players would keep their inventory/bag slots filled with any droppable for a better % chance of not losing something they want to keep. i.e. keep a stack of fish scales, and make sure all slots are full.

Then, the problem with restricting the random loot to only worn items.. is someone would just bag their items.

How hard would it be to code it so that people can't unequip items for X amount of time after attacking or being attacked by another player?

Or, at the moment you are hit with an attack from another player the game, at that moment, selects from your equipped items which one will be the looted item if you die in the next X number of minutes. So even if you bag all your stuff, the loot item has already been chosen.

I know nothing about coding so I have no idea how difficult either of those would be.

[Colgate]

How hard would it be to code it so that people can't unequip items for X amount of time after attacking or being attacked by another player?

i don't like this because i switch out a lot of gear mid-fight depending on who else shows up

if i see a wizard, i'm gonna start putting on my cold resist gear, if it's just another melee i'm gonna be in mostly +stat and +AC gear

[Alecta]

Pretty cool idea, but if it includes bagged loot: potential problem.. players would keep their inventory/bag slots filled with any droppable for a better % chance of not losing something they want to keep. i.e. keep a stack of fish scales, and make sure all slots are full.

Then, the problem with restricting the random loot to only worn items.. is someone would just bag their items.

Just random across all inventory slots, if it's empty then the body has no gear to loot. That way loading up the bags with fish scales adds no benefit.

And to clarify, all players have the same total inventory slots regardless of bags / etc. http://www.eqemulator.net/wiki/wikka.php?wakka=DevInventorySlots

I = RANDOM(0-109)
If I = 11 or 13 or 14 Then Drop Nothing -- Primary, Secondary, Range
If item[i] is No Drop Then Drop Nothing
Otherwise Drop item[i]

[nilbog]

Just random across all inventory slots, if it's empty then the body has no gear to loot. That way loading up the bags with fish scales adds no benefit.

And to clarify, all players have the same total inventory slots regardless of bags / etc. http://www.eqemulator.net/wiki/wikka.php?wakka=DevInventorySlots

I = RANDOM(0-109)
If I = 11 or 13 or 14 Then Drop Nothing -- Primary, Secondary, Range
If item[i] is No Drop Then Drop Nothing
Otherwise Drop item[i]

I like this as well.

[Hughman]

I would just exclude primary, secondary, range from that altogether then, 3 more chances for 0 loot.

[Lowlife]

I would just exclude primary, secondary, range from that altogether then, 3 more chances for 0 loot.

agreed. also, entertain the notion of FV-style no-no drop tags on gear with few exceptions i.e. epics

[Colgate]

player A kills player B, gets a shit roll, loots nothing or something worthless
player B then kills player A, /randoms his most valuable item

doesn't sound very good to me; i don't like the possibility of some RNG function landing on the shittiest index in the array for some and the best for others

classic rallos zek system is the best imo, just stick with that

browsing through peoples' gear and then cherry picking whatever you want is going to be much more enjoyable than that and will make pvp actually feel rewarding on a consistent basis

[Lowlife]

it may not be fair, but its balanced.

[Retti_]

http://static1.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/didn+t+read+lol+_58430b51d57d1814e7adaf35f7d87e64. gif

[Kergan]

Pretty cool idea, but if it includes bagged loot: potential problem.. players would keep their inventory/bag slots filled with any droppable for a better % chance of not losing something they want to keep. i.e. keep a stack of fish scales, and make sure all slots are full.

Then, the problem with restricting the random loot to only worn items.. is someone would just bag their items.

Maybe only count equip-able items? Sure people can load up with a bunch of cloth or something I guess. But isn't the intent to make item loot still viable but not soul crushing upon defeat? Maybe make it so you total up the items that could be dropped and for every 10 of them or something you drop 1 item? So loading up shit in your bags would actually make you drop 3 or 4 things, so while chances are you will only lose cloth shirts most of the time, the scenario exists where you drop half the crap you're wearing if you want to play it that way.

[Old_PVP]

I've been trying to find the words to describe why "randomized" looting is bad.

The best use case I came up with is that there isn't always an opportunity to loot someone effectively. What I mean by 'looting someone effectively' is systematically checking each piece of gear in their inventory after kill and choosing the most valuable to you/most valuable to them/or some combination.

It's pretty obvious that if you see a cloak of flames you should loot it just based on rarity, but most pvp encounters you won't have the luxury of such items so you'll have a pretty large selection of decent items.

Now lets use the example that you're in a 5 v 5 fight in the middle of SolB, you just killed me but you're at 30% health and you think you're being targeted by the wizard. Since you've decided you're about to die, you try to loot me. You figure you have less than 3 seconds until the ice comet hits, so you're really under the gun to loot.

You see what looks like a hooded black cloak, but don't have the time to bring up the text to see what item it is. You decide to assume I own a hooded black cloak and loot it, just before getting killed by the wizard.

When you get back to your corpse, you find out you really looted a [insert really bad cloak that shares the same icon as HBC]. This type of scenario (and I assure you, it will be a very common scenario - being under an extreme time constraint to loot an item) is not possible under "randomized" looting. In fact, you've changed the whole dynamic of item loot and taken away all of the emotion from it. That's the best way to describe it using 1 use case.

And this is somehow a "bad" thing? I remember many times being under pressure to scroll through a corpse and loot whatever looks best while a full blown guild war is raging all around me. Let me tell ya, it's a pain in the ass. I would rather just loot fast, get my randomized loot and move to the next kill.

You also claim that randomized looting would change the dynamic of item loot and take away the "emotion" from it. If anything, it is adding a completely new dynamic of emotion and drama to an item loot system, especially in combination with a serverwide broadcast detailing what was taken. Trash talk and tears will be flowing by either the victim or the victor, depending on the luck of the loot. It will be great fun for all involved, including the entire server who will witness all the shiny ill-gotten goods triumphantly displayed in bold yellow text.

[Kergan]

I've been trying to find the words to describe why "randomized" looting is bad.

The best use case I came up with is that there isn't always an opportunity to loot someone effectively. What I mean by 'looting someone effectively' is systematically checking each piece of gear in their inventory after kill and choosing the most valuable to you/most valuable to them/or some combination.

It's pretty obvious that if you see a cloak of flames you should loot it just based on rarity, but most pvp encounters you won't have the luxury of such items so you'll have a pretty large selection of decent items.

Now lets use the example that you're in a 5 v 5 fight in the middle of SolB, you just killed me but you're at 30% health and you think you're being targeted by the wizard. Since you've decided you're about to die, you try to loot me. You figure you have less than 3 seconds until the ice comet hits, so you're really under the gun to loot.

You see what looks like a hooded black cloak, but don't have the time to bring up the text to see what item it is. You decide to assume I own a hooded black cloak and loot it, just before getting killed by the wizard.

When you get back to your corpse, you find out you really looted a [insert really bad cloak that shares the same icon as HBC]. This type of scenario (and I assure you, it will be a very common scenario - being under an extreme time constraint to loot an item) is not possible under "randomized" looting. In fact, you've changed the whole dynamic of item loot and taken away all of the emotion from it. That's the best way to describe it using 1 use case.

90% of PVP kills don't happen this way. They are a 2 on 1 gank in some common experience area or at a dungeon entrance. Deciding to implement or not implement a system based on very specific and uncommon events is a bad idea.

Although your post does bring up another idea, what if when you're PK'd you automatically drop any item you've looted in the last X amount of hours? So a rogue or monk disc suiciding into an exp group and looting an item wouldn't suck as much if your group can take him out, you would get the item back.

[Kergan]

player A kills player B, gets a shit roll, loots nothing or something worthless
player B then kills player A, /randoms his most valuable item

doesn't sound very good to me; i don't like the possibility of some RNG function landing on the shittiest index in the array for some and the best for others

classic rallos zek system is the best imo, just stick with that

browsing through peoples' gear and then cherry picking whatever you want is going to be much more enjoyable than that and will make pvp actually feel rewarding on a consistent basis

I still think you're facing a net negative value when it comes to enjoyment with a classic RZ system. The gain from a kill is outweighed by the pain of a loss. People tend to think of how things will be at the beginning. How will it ever be feasible to recruit new players to the box to replace those that move on when they are getting jacked and losing items to supertwinks all the time? The goal should be something long term and sustainable.

[Laugher]

So the one thing I'm not getting here is this:

I haven't read much into the item loot concept yet but I voted it down primarily because of the scenario of bind camping. Lets say if somebody is lucky enough to find a different player not bound by a guard (or those guards are distracted by chasing someone else for example) it seems to me that there'd be the possibility of repeatedly killing someone (now this would be a little ridiculous but possible) the person keeps looting their corpse then gets pked and loses more things while being griefed. Has a preventative measure to this been discussed? I'm sure that this kind of killing on an item loot server would potentially create a few extra petitions or complaints etc. that needed to be addressed or responded to, and moving around items from one person back to another via gm assistance or reimbursing said items doesn't seem like it'd happen too often given the nature of the server (i.e. item loot is a highlight in the mechanics)

The idea does sound fun, it just raises a lot of concerns to me with regards to the loss of gear and consequently population once twinks show up.

Would the +/- still be in effect on teams? If so, how would someone stop one twink at say level 5 from being killed by a level 8 twink with a fungi (or a level 8 with a smoldering brand per se killing a level 5 with any non-cloth bp)? That'd certainly be a long ways down the road, but then without the +/- how would the lower levels compete with higher levels?

I like the fact this is being discussed, perhaps I voted a little early but after seeing how much this has come up (along with the results of this poll) I would be curious to see how it plays out.

And if it doesnt, will item loot be scrapped or will the server be left to having a tiny pop?

*edit* Another thing that seems like it should be asked is how large of a pop is expected to be on this server?

*edit edit* Went back and reread Alecta's concept of how it would work, that sounds pretty cool actually, good enough to resolve my griefing question here.. so then if somebody was wearing a fungi for example the pker would have a 1/109 chance to loot it?

[Lowlife]

In terms of twinks, yes it's going to happen. It happened on Rallos Zek in 1999, it will happen now. The thing to remember is that if someone is gearing out their character with fungis and stuff, they are giving you an opportunity at some of the best loot in the game... and all you have to risk is your time. This is when you team up with guys on your team and try to take the twink down, maybe you will - maybe you won't. Lets say the twink over extended himself and got caught by 7 players and died. With this "randomized loot" you might end up with an iron ration, instead of having the ability to look through all of his gear and select the item you want the most. Randomizing loot makes 0 sense, there's not much of a reason for it other than to talk about another potential idea. Here is just yet another example of why it would be an absolutely terrible idea.


Who is more likely to score a kill.

Mrbigs or a 6 man group in unrest?

*spoiler alert* he wipes out entire groups all the fucking time. imagine those guys losing their banded pieces every time they die.

Randomizing item loot makes perfect sense if you want population retention and not a sub current population server of the same VZTZ crowd. Once again you come up with a very specific example scenario to push your personal preferences, when in reality look at the survey results above, not only did randomized yt loot win above RZ loot, but its actually the only item loot survey to beat no item loot at all.

[Retti_]

In terms of being bind camped, you have to use common sense. If the guy who killed you is standing right next to your corpse, you clearly want to loot your bags first and then loot your items directly into your bags. There should never be any reimbursement by the GMs for losing items.

In terms of twinks, yes it's going to happen. It happened on Rallos Zek in 1999, it will happen now. The thing to remember is that if someone is gearing out their character with fungis and stuff, they are giving you an opportunity at some of the best loot in the game... and all you have to risk is your time. This is when you team up with guys on your team and try to take the twink down, maybe you will - maybe you won't. Lets say the twink over extended himself and got caught by 7 players and died. With this "randomized loot" you might end up with an iron ration, instead of having the ability to look through all of his gear and select the item you want the most. Randomizing loot makes 0 sense, there's not much of a reason for it other than to talk about another potential idea. Here is just yet another example of why it would be an absolutely terrible idea.

Who is the person that actually proposed this random loot lol

[Lowlife]

Again, you're looking at this scenario through your own lenses through which you view EQ, that of a PVPer, likewise you're saying a suit of banded isn't worth shit.

What you need to do is step outside yourself, imagine someone trying t99 from blue, someone who kicked wisps to death with nettled shoes from the qeynos aquaducts to get 100pp together to afford the banded, who just loses his banded BP, helmet, and legs to someone who deletes it (trust me, not all but many people on this server WOULD take the time to do that.) atleast one person in that 6 man group is going to say fuck this, and go back to their VP gear blue character and carry on masturbating in the EC tunnel while afk.

[Lowlife]

Who is the person that actually proposed this random loot lol

The devs in the original teams99 twitch chat and subsiquently by Smedy, I just think its the best compromise among all options present for item loot.

[Retti_]

Smedy is a moh ran w no pvp skill

Ofc he would recommend random loot so he can pretend hes raiding npcs w loot tables