re: Item Loot, err, Spell Resists!

[Alecta]

I thought people might want a break from the item loot posts.

Effective next patch, we will be able to tweak the PvP resist parameters without a patch. And as a part of that, we are going to be modifying the values a bit.

I slapped together a spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArKGHwnPXuS6dDNOU19Tc05LWjdxdmRHc3JHb3pUM 2c#gid=0) that should give some idea of where we're headed.

Feel free to experiment via "File" -> "Make a copy" and modifying the green cells.

Any feedback is appreciated, including what people might like to see in classic / kunark / velious.

[Kastro]

Will it work like on live back in the day... as in if you had High MR, root and snare wore off faster?.. Resists working properly is key to fun item loot.... :)

[Combobreaker]

very cool

[Lowlife]

thx alecta

[Hughman]

Will it work like on live back in the day... as in if you had High MR, root and snare wore off faster?.. Resists working properly is key to fun item loot.... :)

This, as long as resists are working properly its not as big a hassle to be playing a melee in item loot.

[Kastro]

This, as long as resists are working properly its not as big a hassle to be playing a melee in item loot.

Yeah I remember as a troll SK on RZ... if i wore enough MR gear to get around 100mr I was fairly safe from root and snare... so it was worth risking that gear while we were grouped up and Ganking..

[Vexenu]

Most important thing to get right is MR.

With an MR of 100 a player should be resisting over 90% of movement restricting spells and blinds/stuns. With an MR over 125 it's like 98%.

PvP on Red where people are regularly getting rooted and snared with 100+ MR is totally non-classic. On Live those spells were basically never used unless the target was Tashed, simply because they almost never landed against a decently geared opponent.

Movement/positioning is really the only skill-based aspect of EQ PvP, so eliminating that by allowing roots and snares to land reliably dumbs down PvP a great deal. I mean, a caster who can root/nuke or snare/nuke a melee to death is displaying zero skill. It's literally the same exact tactic for a PvE kill against a mob with no intelligence. Allowing that sort of thing to take place regularly with geared characters and calling it "PvP" is a complete joke.

[Lowlife]

Most important thing to get right is MR.

With an MR of 100 a player should be resisting over 90% of movement restricting spells and blinds/stuns. With an MR over 125 it's like 98%.

PvP on Red where people are regularly getting rooted and snared with 100+ MR is totally non-classic. On Live those spells were basically never used unless the target was Tashed, simply because they almost never landed against a decently geared opponent.

Movement/positioning is really the only skill-based aspect of EQ PvP, so eliminating that by allowing roots and snares to land reliably dumbs down PvP a great deal. I mean, a caster who can root/nuke or snare/nuke a melee to death is displaying zero skill. It's literally the same exact tactic for a PvE kill against a mob with no intelligence. Allowing that sort of thing to take place regularly with geared characters and calling it "PvP" is a complete joke.

vex so wise in the ways of EQ

[Alecta]

PvP on Red where people are regularly getting rooted and snared with 100+ MR is totally non-classic.

Re: Roots - this still happening?

Snares are on my plate for next patch, but roots should have been taken care of.

[Retti_]

I love Hughman

[Bazia]

Vexenu is incorrect roots and snare are both seeing resists just fine.

I think the only snare with issues is bard snare, I haven't been seeing the shit land unless im tashed or malo'd.

I have been pvping not stop for days so I've seen the resist checks in action, although I would like a more classic like elemental resist. Really sick of seeing wizards ignore lures and druids being rapeface (Although I am playing a druid currently).

[Kastro]

Most important thing to get right is MR.

With an MR of 100 a player should be resisting over 90% of movement restricting spells and blinds/stuns. With an MR over 125 it's like 98%.

PvP on Red where people are regularly getting rooted and snared with 100+ MR is totally non-classic. On Live those spells were basically never used unless the target was Tashed, simply because they almost never landed against a decently geared opponent.

Movement/positioning is really the only skill-based aspect of EQ PvP, so eliminating that by allowing roots and snares to land reliably dumbs down PvP a great deal. I mean, a caster who can root/nuke or snare/nuke a melee to death is displaying zero skill. It's literally the same exact tactic for a PvE kill against a mob with no intelligence. Allowing that sort of thing to take place regularly with geared characters and calling it "PvP" is a complete joke.

Yeah on RZ the only thing I bothered using was clinging darkness... since it was a low level spell it landed easy even with decent MR... but it did not last long at all.. maybe a few ticks... If Clinging landed I would try a higher level... especially if we had a chanter tashing... but yeah most players werent smart enough to use clinging darkness...

[Vexenu]

Re: Roots - this still happening?

Snares are on my plate for next patch, but roots should have been taken care of.

I've not played since before you started making changes, so I'm not sure how it is now.

But anything approximating the percentages that I quoted would be close to how resists were on Live, which I'm assuming is the goal.

[dogbarf]

I thought people might want a break from the item loot posts.

Effective next patch, we will be able to tweak the PvP resist parameters without a patch. And as a part of that, we are going to be modifying the values a bit.


Any plans to fix spell durations? Ensnare Lasts 18 seconds rather than 14 minutes.

I know a shit ton of melee fags on these forums probably think that is a good thing but If we are going to have classic resists we should try to have classic duration yes?

Casters are going to suck some serious balls with the nonclassic dmg nerf and nonclassic duration once kunark rolls around.

[Alecta]

Kunark's out, guessing you mean Velious. Part of the reason for making things tweakable without patches is that these nerfs can be rolled back a bit when things swing too far in one direction or the other.

Anyway, the pvp snare duration is baked into the client, so it's outside of my skillset to fix it.

[dogbarf]

Any chance on reducing mana cost of CC spells if cast on players? If Rapture for example lasts half as long as It should on players can we at least get the mana cost reduced when using it on non-npcs?

[Alecta]

Will it work like on live back in the day... as in if you had High MR, root and snare wore off faster?..

A while back, I asked about reverting Null's removal of partials on root / snare and didnt get much input.

[Bazia]

alot of these people dont seem to be actively playing

guys dont shit up the thread asking for changes that are already made

fix elemental resists please, to start seeing good partials at 150 is not classic and requires anyone not in full VP gear retarded gear sacrifices (HP/Mana/STA/PR/etc) to accomplish.

When wizards are using draughts you know it isnt right

and now i will shut up a say thanks for all the great changes alecta

[Alecta]

I've not played since before you started making changes, so I'm not sure how it is now.

But anything approximating the percentages that I quoted would be close to how resists were on Live, which I'm assuming is the goal.

You should come back and give it a whirl.

Those percentages are what we should have next patch, i.e. 125 mr = 98% resist on all roots and snares. (Currently it's just roots.)

[SamwiseRed]

roots fixed. i still get bard snared tho. not sure about regular snare, noone's ever casted that on me in pvp.

[Cid]

I am not really sure how this is supposed to help the server. Yes, it will give melee a better chance to resist spells, but the people wearing raid gear will become even harder to cast on as well. Hell, with the massive increases to resistance at 100ish to the resists, people who now can stack up to 200+ resists can take a few pieces off to stack more hp.

A vast majority of this server are caster or priest classes and, besides some of the shamans, are terrible at meleeing and rely almost entirely on spells to do damage. This will help increase the longevity of casual players to an extent, but will make all casters less capable of defending themselves in a fight.
If you think lvl 52s are helpless against 60s now, just imagine that 60 with a 17% higher chance to resist.

I think the system you are suggesting is perfectly fine and would work amazingly well if implemented at launch on a server, but Red has existed for 2 years now with different systems for resists which resulted in a massive disparity in class populations. This is not Live! This is not Classic! We all know where everything drops and to avoid being Rangers. There's a fraction of the paladins there should be, and if not for Harmtouch there would likely be half the SKs or less. How many monks exist only because Tstaff was broken sooooo long? Or how many bards to use the bugged highsun?

None of us should be comparing Red to a memory 14 years old because memory is fallible and almost always wrong. What was done on Blahblah Zek server is not automatically going to work here, and could be detrimental in the end.

Red needs more people and if we all put forth even half the effort being spent on speculating about Teams99 then Red99 would probably be a lot more inviting and enjoyable.

We're too far gone for changing something this essential without it having unexpected consequences. Also, can we finally drop whole classic/non-classic thing? No one began EQ knowing where each item dropped, every strategy for raid events, all the best resist gear, and there definitely weren't multiple websites devoted solely to EQ. Knowing and having access to this information has changed how we play, who we play, and sometimes why we play.
If Red was close to 50% melee and 50% caster it would work better, but I believe the number of casters is closer to 70-80% of the population. 7 out of every 10 losing dmg and dps, then the last 3 out of 10 only get better from it.

If there are 20 repetitions of the same item loot B.S. and that server isn't coming out for maybe a year, can you just imagine how much this collective of rational and level-headed scholars will love this when they realize it makes a VP geared character much, much harder to kill. It might even become impossible to casters who could win before.

P.S. I kept dozing off typing this, so, sorry if parts sound like I am a madman.

[Bazia]

thats the problem retard the only people who can get appropriate resist now are the people fully decked in endgame resist gear

make the shit classic so i dont have to eat draughts just because im not in full vp/trak/other shit

[Nizzarr]

150/75/0 is pretty much classic resists.

I really dont like putting all spells in the same resists bucket though. What about spells with two components that had double resists checks like stuns with damage, roots with damage, dots with damage(shaman dots), enchanter DD/stuns etc

[Lasher]

One thing to take note on is certain spells that just seemed to always land or a great deal. I played an ench on live and yes MOST MR spells didnt do shit against an ok geared toon, except chaotic feedback. I used that spell from 1999 to 2003. Like a 30 dmg nuke, interupt spell. I hate to see that spell get thrown in with root and snare. Its always been a fun spell because it landed but wasnt over powered since it was just an interupt and not like a long stun and the dmg was so low

[Agatha]

anything having to do with slow is broken as fuck, bard snare with the slow component, broken as fuck, slow landing almost every time on someone with 150mr, broken as fuck.

[Lasher]

Is it velious that all debuff resist spells do 1.5 in pvp?

[Pudge]

I really dont like putting all spells in the same resists bucket

yes. If this graph were to be used for nukes, i think it would be way too much... outright resisting nukes over 50% of the time at 95 fire resist (at least in kunark, maybe this is OK in classic). But Alecta, I'm thinking if it "resists" here, then it will have a partial check? With the partial check itself having a range at which it would be fully resisted?

I think spell classes should be individually tweaked - like disease was hard to resist, poison not as hard, fire/cold nukes on the same page i think? and magic nukes didn't land as well as fire/cold (but maybe due to everyone having this resist pumped). -- i don't know maybe they were all in reality on the same curve but it didn't feel that way..

Also please put in the "low level spell" mods - low level spells always landed easier (some were basically unresistable). Useful for many classes, the low level spells could paradoxically be some of the best, like the low level enchanter nukes that have stun component..... always kept the lowest level, and sometimes the lowest 2 levels (2nd lowest resisted more), of my nuke up - dealt like 30 damage but that stun was what was important. Lower level spells landing were a real utility, and pretty balanced even, because they were low level so the effects weren't that harsh.

As for the graph: Alecta, I think for Classic your curve looks good, as long as when it gets "resisted" it goes to the partial check, and isn't getting straight up fully resisted. Then the Partials function becomes more important - i'd like to see the curve for that. I think the main thing with Null's code is however he's doing partials they don't appear to reduce much damage.


My overall fear is that casters will be turned into giant gimps that get steamrolled. But since this system can be tweaked on the fly, it's not that bad of a thing to experiment.

Suggestions:

Classic: Alecta's
P1. 165
P2. 60
P3. 50

Kunark: Inbetween
P1. 170
P2. 90
P3. 45

Velious: Null's
P1. 190
P2. 270
P3. 15

[Pudge]

heh. lasher i had my post sitting here overnight basically, then i post and see we both remember that shitty enchanter nuke the same way, and how good they actually were.

don't remember if that debuff thing was associated with an era. it might have just been a feature of sullon

[Pudge]

Currently the partial curves look something like this:

http://i.imgur.com/dlgr5Br.png

(though there are some additional checks not represented that let high roll nukes land for full).

So if you eyeball it:

RESIST LOW HIGH (DAMAGE %'s)
75 92% 100%
100 73% 100%
125 61% 93%
150 52% 84%
175 45% 77%
200 40% 71%
225 35% 67%
250 32% 64%


I'm additionally looking at critical failures for pure nukes, where you will fully resist them at the rate of 1.2% per resistance point. (9% @ 75fr, 18% @ 150fr, 30% @ 255 fr).

So my questions are:


What do you think the partial resist curves should look like (feel free to bust out paint)?
What do you think as far as outright resists on pure nuke spells?
And for the inevitable "Make it classic" folks, please define your remembrances of classic. In terms of questions 1 & 2 above.


Thanks for inputs. This thread will be moderated & off topic posts deleted.
ah, i found this. looking at the graph, I'd say the "partials" area is way too condensed - give it some room to breathe, have partials land for a wider range, by dragging that bottom blue line down considerably. and also adding the "critical failure" (as well as keep the high-roll full damage) feature. (I'm still assuming a "resist" on the OP graph actually means "roll for a partial")

[Lasher]

I havent played in a long time but is it still impossible to resist any nuke regardless of how high your resists were. I played a bard and if timed correctly i would pump my FR high when i suspected a sunstrike coming in but it would still land and the partial would still hurt

[Bazia]

nukes still relentlessly rape

you can wear 150FR/CR and not see partials

how much gear do i need to sacrifice?

wizards should be using lures, druids should be using dots

this mega bomber nuke play style seen here is just flat out wrong

[Lasher]

I think fights need to be drawn out more for the server to be more fun. Its fun for that wiz or druid to just chain nuke and never worry about their spells not landing but over all I think its more fun to actually form up a battle plan rather than just mega bomb.

Whats more fun drawn out battles or quick unload all your nukes and disc

[Technique]

I really dont like putting all spells in the same resists bucket though. What about spells with two components that had double resists checks like stuns with damage, roots with damage, dots with damage(shaman dots), enchanter DD/stuns etcThat was an absurd aspect of the Live resist mechanics which rendered several spell lines useless. The only way it would make sense for multi-component spells to be given resist checks for each component would be if each component could actually be resisted independently of the others without affecting the spell as a whole.

No one in support of more involved, tactical PvP in this game can argue that 300-400+ mana, 5-6s cast time, curable shaman DoTs should be twice or thrice as easy to resist simply because of a front-loaded DD that accounts for 1/10th to 1/20th of the spell's actual damage and the addition of some poison/disease counters.

Or that MR-based enchanter nukes that have 8-second cooldowns should be twice as easy to resist simply because they have a 1 millisecond stun attached to them.

Or that an MR-based cleric stun with a 24-second cooldown should be twice as easy to resist simply because it also does ~150 dmg.

Because of the slow regeneration of hp/mana and no/very limited mana recovery options, it's not really possible to "roll with the punches" in EQ PvP. A lucky resist or a nuke landing for full can decide the outcome of a fight. Reducing all spell lines that aren't pure nukes to all-or-nothing events dictated by random chance only reinforces this unfortunate fact.

I suggest that all spells with multiple components should have a single resist mod determined by their most significant effect. So, in the case of an enchanter's Dementia it should be the 450-point DD, not the 1ms stun. A cleric's Enforced Reverence, the stun and not the 166-point DD. A druid's Ice, the 408-point DD and not the FR debuff. And a shaman's Pox of Bertoxxulous, the 1340-point DoT, not the 67-point DD and the 9 disease counters.

Of course it would still be possible to outright resist these spells, but in the same manner that pure nukes can be outright resisted, not with a bonus because of components that have little to no bearing on a player's decision to cast the spell in the first place.

[Technique]

looking at the graph, I'd say the "partials" area is way too condensed - give it some room to breathe, have partials land for a wider rangeI'll argue the exact opposite, because widening the partial damage range only further promotes randomness as a deciding factor in the outcome of fights.

According to that graph, the low-high damage band is essentially static for all resist values. If anything, it should narrow with increasing resists (by reducing the high damage end of the range, not raising the low end) as a reflection of the player's decision to gain some insurance by stacking a resist at the cost of other stats/resists.

[Technique]

A while back, I asked about reverting Null's removal of partials on root / snare and didnt get much input.There's no sense in adding partials back to root/snare when their max duration is already limited to only 4-5 ticks.

[Bazia]

id root and snares are fine as

(other then bard, not sure if its because of a modifier due to epic/instruments)

[Agatha]

id root and snares are fine as

(other then bard, not sure if its because of a modifier due to epic/instruments)

its cause slow and anything that has a slow component (bard snare) is broken as fuk.

[Pudge]

I'll argue the exact opposite, because widening the partial damage range only further promotes randomness as a deciding factor in the outcome of fights.

According to that graph, the low-high damage band is essentially static for all resist values. If anything, it should narrow with increasing resists (by reducing the high damage end of the range, not raising the low end) as a reflection of the player's decision to gain some insurance by stacking a resist at the cost of other stats/resists.

when you partialed on live, it was a wide range you could partial for, not partial for only 40-50% of the spell damage every time

[Leftoverture]

Any plans to fix spell durations? Ensnare Lasts 18 seconds rather than 14 minutes.

I know a shit ton of melee fags on these forums probably think that is a good thing but If we are going to have classic resists we should try to have classic duration yes?

Casters are going to suck some serious balls with the nonclassic dmg nerf and nonclassic duration once kunark rolls around.

1. Snare has never lasted for 14 minutes on players on any server

2. Think it would be fun if I could silence you for 14 minutes? You're retarded

[Not_Kazowi]

is there any estimate on when t99 comes out

[Retti_]

is there any estimate on when t99 comes out

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4ktg008Ni1qkwym7.gif

[Alecta]

One thing to take note on is certain spells that just seemed to always land or a great deal. I played an ench on live and yes MOST MR spells didnt do shit against an ok geared toon, except chaotic feedback.

I know folks mentioned that a low level wizzie nuke functioned the same with with low resists (and perhaps a pally stun?).

If we can get a list of those spells I can take a look at them together.

[Alecta]

ah, i found this. looking at the graph, I'd say the "partials" area is way too condensed - give it some room to breathe, have partials land for a wider range, by dragging that bottom blue line down considerably.

Yeah, an additional point of consideration is that in that range the values are uniformly distributed. I am going to look at swapping that out to a normal distribution and expanding the range.

The expected value should be the same, but it should also make reisists 'feel' like they are doing something rather than values popping out randomly in a tight band.

and also adding the "critical failure" (as well as keep the high-roll full damage) feature.

I am going to add in the ability to fully resist a direct damage spell, with the values set rather low to begin with.

(I'm still assuming a "resist" on the OP graph actually means "roll for a partial")

Only for pure nukes under null's system (they get slotted into the blue bands in that graph).

Final note:

I am looking at bits and pieces of the system right now (resist function, partial function, adding full resists for pure nukes, etc.). Prior to release of it, I'm going to run through and look at the impact of all the changes on the expected value of various nukes at various resist points. Additionally, if after the changes go live, they are found to be too much in one direction or another, we will be able to adjust them / revert them without a patch. Something to keep in mind with the tears.

[Alecta]

is there any estimate on when t99 comes out

No.

[Bazia]

so resists will be classic?

can we make that happen?

#nomoredraughtsorsunstrikesplease #necroswontbeterribleanymore

[Cid]

thats the problem retard the only people who can get appropriate resist now are the people fully decked in endgame resist gear

make the shit classic so i dont have to eat draughts just because im not in full vp/trak/other shit

Well, retard, do you think the advantage the gear gives those people is going to magically disappear? And if you cannot get at least 3 of the 5 resists to over 120 you're not trying hard to do so. Shamans can make potions that last 30 mins and add 25 to a resist and these potions stack with resist buffs.

I said, quite clearly, that these changes will in fact give the casual player greater longevity. (That means living longer.) But you are going to find that it works both ways and 80% of the server has a caster who will be less effective in pvp. Living longer is always good, but if it adversely causes you to do less damage to your opponent then all you achieved was a few more seconds to gate or zone plug.

If you think those VP geared casters you want to kill so much haven't been leveling and decking out melee alts in VP gear in preparation for changes like this you're naive. Those people spent 6 months farming on an essentially dead server and some spent hundreds to thousands in real money buying items. You need Van Hellsing and a wooden stake, not better resists.

[Bazia]

i know they have decked out melees that have resists

that's what i said everyone else should easily be able to cap resists without insane gear as they could in classic

i dont think u paying attention dude

[dogbarf]

1. Snare has never lasted for 14 minutes on players on any server

Is this guy for real?

[Dullah]

Very good suggested rates. Seems like they'll be in between classic and current, very fair.

[Dullah]

Any plans to fix spell durations? Ensnare Lasts 18 seconds rather than 14 minutes.

I know a shit ton of melee fags on these forums probably think that is a good thing but If we are going to have classic resists we should try to have classic duration yes?

Casters are going to suck some serious balls with the nonclassic dmg nerf and nonclassic duration once kunark rolls around.

Classic resists with impairment spells means every tick (6 seconds) the spell does a resist check, and if you resist on any tick, the spell breaks. Might have only been that way with root, but no reason it shouldn't be that way for both. If snare works the way you suggest, good luck getting away from any rogue.

Side note: This is also how charms should work in pve, which is why charm was used so rarely unlike the silly system that exists on p99.

One other thing that should be removed is the 2% for spells to land. Theres nothing that suggests this existed prior to Luclin.

[dogbarf]

Except that is 100% wrong. Snares did not break early. Thats why they were much better than roots in pvp (Which had a high chance to break every tick and after receiving dmg). Unbalanced or not they definitely did last the full duration (14minutes ensnare) despite whatever people here are trying to claim.

I realize this is pointless since apparently there is no way to get around the client changes, but it should be kept in mind when balancing around "classic" resists and spellsystem.

[Dullah]

Considering on live you could resist snare 100% of the time at 70mr, it was never an issue. People should be happy that snare lands at all on this custom server. It wasn't even a factor in pvp on live.

If Alecta adjusted snare resist to the classic 70mr, I wouldn't mind at all if it lasted its full duration.

[dogbarf]

100% with 70mr is a flat out lie.

98% with 120+mr sure. But when they landed you were pretty fucked. Either way i guess its pretty pointless to discuss. If casters suck so be it they can still be used as buff/port bots.

[quido]

Let's not forget about mezzes too - way too easy to land since last patch.

[Retti_]

Let's not forget about mezzes too - way too easy to land since last patch.

We waited a year to be able to cast a non rapture and have it land

[Dullah]

100% with 70mr is a flat out lie.

98% with 120+mr sure. But when they landed you were pretty fucked. Either way i guess its pretty pointless to discuss. If casters suck so be it they can still be used as buff/port bots.

Clearly didn't play classic EQ - velious. Never worried about having mr over 70-80. I was snared 1 time during velious, probably while tashed.

[Tune]

ITEM LOOT SOO GOOD
cant wait to play

[Alecta]

The OP is going in with next patch.

Now that this is tweakable, we will probably try to use:
Classic: 150/75/0 (for teams, dont laugh at me.)
Kunark: 165/60/50 (new values, see spreadsheet for impacts)
Velious: 190/270/15 (current values)

[HippoNipple]

Nirgon can you translate this for me?

[Colgate]

so does this function determine if it's a partial, or if it lands at all?

[Alecta]

Lands at all. I have another thread kicking around with partial work that I need to revisit.

[Colgate]

excellent

i hold you in higher regard than any other staff member, pal

[LulzSect]

excellent

i hold you in higher regard than any other staff member, pal

[Kergan]

Get out 'dem necros boys!

[Potus]

Get out 'dem necros boys!

How will this impact Necros?

[Kergan]

When spells become easier to resist or partial resist, classes such as wizards will need to switch to using lures more often which are far less damaging/mana efficient (just one example). Dropping sunstrikes and draughts non stop will be far less effective and too much rng involved for most peoples comfort.

Necros were beasts on live and suck here why? Because spells are too hard to resist. You basically have to deflux spam to have a shot at keeping up with a nuking class. It was never like that on live. Plus the partial heals on taps. Not sure if that is classic tbo.

[Colgate]

How will this impact Necros?

because other casters' offensive capabilities objectively get much, much worse while necro's stays mostly the same considering most of their stuff is coded to be unresistable

[Kergan]

because other casters' offensive capabilities objectively get much, much worse while necro's stays mostly the same considering most of their stuff is coded to be unresistable

Yeah pretty much a easier to read/understand version of what I said, lol.

[thisuserwasbannedlol]

guy makes 1 good patch that does not fix what was intended then disappears for 6 months

pop is peaking at 120 and here he comes white knighting

fuck off

[Potus]

While we're fixing spells and resists, Alecta can you check Splurt and Winged Death's spell data?

Splurt apparently is doing less damage than it is supposed to according to this thread (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134604&page=2)

because other casters' offensive capabilities objectively get much, much worse while necro's stays mostly the same considering most of their stuff is coded to be unresistable

Oh ok gotcha.

[Faerie]

Wait, what was that about item loot?

[runlvlzero]

Wait, what was that about item loot?

[Squire]

Wait, what was that about item loot?

[runlvlzero]

It's been a rough year for the crops with the winter vortexes ruining everything. Gotta cut tomato man some slack.

He lives in florida, tomatoes aint got a prob here right now, it's called a greenhouse, he just sucks at IRL 2

[Tradesonred]

My opinion on this should be taken with a grain of salt because im not super familiar with exactly how resists worked on live.

Ill tell you this though, it was hard as fuck to root melee hard twinks on Rallos. I could spam root all day sometimes and the guy would just keep running around pickin us out one by one.

But if we did kill him, chances are we would get one piece of gear to sell.

If you do that here, and beef up the resists, these buffed up twinks still have nothing to lose from engaging groups 1v4, they have no gear to lose, so you increase the grief potential coming out of those types of players.

So that should count in the balance with the high level nuke resists which i know little about, and im sure is important as well.

[Hatwer]

There are a lot of challenges with Item Loot, and I don't think it would increase the server pop.

I loved Rallos and made a fortune off Item Loot, but it really does add another barrier to getting established on the server.

[Heywood]

Ill tell you this though, it was hard as fuck to root melee hard twinks on Rallos. I could spam root all day sometimes and the guy would just keep running around pickin us out one by one.



No one bothered snare/rooting past level 30. It would never land once you even got 50-70 MR.

[Gaffin 7.0]

pras Alecta

[Faerie]

Yes, thank you Alecta. Your work does not go unappreciated :)

[Nirgon]

You should come back and give it a whirl.

Those percentages are what we should have next patch, i.e. 125 mr = 98% resist on all roots and snares. (Currently it's just roots.)

Heard of a mage pet rooting someone with 145mr recently.

I never wanted to pour kerosene on a server so much.

[Smedy]

pras alecta, i though you'd hit the eject button after a month on the project, null would be proud pal

[Clark]

Wait, what was that about item loot?

[Gustoo]

Alecta still active? Cool also Ditto above

p.s. I already resist like a mad dog even when I run around with like 70mr. I can't imagine trying to play a class like a mage in velious with velious level resists. Better off trying to melee dps. Resists seem okay to me at this point. Casters suck at the top.

[Nirgon]

I thought naked wizards were the best?

[Sturgeon]

What about item loot? Finally coming in?

[Nirgon]

HE'S OBVIOUSLY THINKIN' IT

LET'S HOPE

[Squire]

so is teams something one can mention with a straight face around here again? because i'd like that.

[Vile]

any new updates to resists in general planned?

[Bazia]

You guys do know Alecta is Derubael right

[Faerie]

You guys do know Alecta is Derubael right

Why would it matter?

[Bazia]

Meaning they never left the scene

[Mac Dretti]

You guys do know Alecta is Derubael right

double the class

http://i.imgur.com/y3SK2Gy.gif

[Gustoo]

Why would it matter?

Because 2 boxxing forumquest accounts is bannable offense.

[Azure]

I still eagerly await item loot b4 I log in and play with my Trakkanon Bra equipped.

Because 2 boxxing forumquest accounts is bannable offense.

I got 4 accounts, it's not boxing if their not logged in and posting all at the same time.

[Faerie]

Yeah, if Alecta has two accounts it's probably because his Derubael account was banned.

[STOP CHEWIE NOOOO]

edgy

[Wrench]

2 forum accounts used to be cool/

only if alternating bans

[Clark]

Item loot!

[COLGATETHEGRANDMASTER]

with the new resist patch:

@ 219 fire resist:
[Sun Feb 23 21:21:58 2014] Your body is consumed by the flames of the sun. You have taken 480 points of damage.
[Sun Feb 23 21:22:12 2014] Your body is consumed by the flames of the sun. You have taken 448 points of damage.
[Sun Feb 23 21:22:23 2014] Your body is consumed by the flames of the sun. You have taken 415 points of damage.
[Sun Feb 23 21:22:35 2014] Your body is consumed by the flames of the sun. You have taken 458 points of damage.
[Sun Feb 23 21:22:50 2014] Your body is consumed by the flames of the sun. You have taken 458 points of damage.
[Sun Feb 23 21:29:17 2014] Your body is consumed by the flames of the sun. You have taken 448 points of damage.
[Sun Feb 23 21:29:29 2014] Your body is consumed by the flames of the sun. You have taken 469 points of damage.
[Sun Feb 23 21:33:19 2014] Your body is consumed by the flames of the sun. You have taken 415 points of damage.
[Sun Feb 23 21:33:30 2014] Your body is consumed by the flames of the sun. You have taken 372 points of damage.

@ 179 fire resist:
[Sun Feb 23 18:55:39 2014] Your body is consumed by the flames of the sun. You have taken 505 points of damage.
[Sun Feb 23 18:57:37 2014] Your body is consumed by the flames of the sun. You have taken 472 points of damage.
[Sun Feb 23 18:59:19 2014] Your body is consumed by the flames of the sun. You have taken 772 points of damage.
[Sun Feb 23 19:00:42 2014] Your body is consumed by the flames of the sun. You have taken 515 points of damage.

@ 147 cold resist:
[Sun Feb 23 21:25:53 2014] You are caught in a torrent of jagged ice. You have taken 245 points of damage.
[Sun Feb 23 21:25:59 2014] You are caught in a torrent of jagged ice. You have taken 375 points of damage.
[Sun Feb 23 21:26:05 2014] You are caught in a torrent of jagged ice. You have taken 326 points of damage.
[Sun Feb 23 21:26:11 2014] You are caught in a torrent of jagged ice. You have taken 395 points of damage.
[Sun Feb 23 21:35:29 2014] You are caught in a torrent of jagged ice. You have taken 489 points of damage.
[Sun Feb 23 21:35:37 2014] You are caught in a torrent of jagged ice. You have taken 231 points of damage.
[Sun Feb 23 21:35:50 2014] You are caught in a torrent of jagged ice. You have taken 365 points of damage.
tested draught of jiva as well(magic based)

@ 148 magic resist:
[Sun Feb 23 21:42:24 2014] You are caught in a torrent of reckless magic. You have taken 329 points of damage.
[Sun Feb 23 21:42:30 2014] You resist the Draught of Jiva spell!
[Sun Feb 23 21:42:35 2014] You are caught in a torrent of reckless magic. You have taken 380 points of damage.
[Sun Feb 23 21:42:40 2014] You are caught in a torrent of reckless magic. You have taken 376 points of damage.
[Sun Feb 23 21:42:45 2014] You resist the Draught of Jiva spell!
[Sun Feb 23 21:42:50 2014] You resist the Draught of Jiva spell!
[Sun Feb 23 21:42:54 2014] You resist the Draught of Jiva spell!
[Sun Feb 23 21:43:00 2014] You resist the Draught of Jiva spell!

i guess draught of jiva only full resistable because of the stun component?

all of these spells cast by a 60 wizard

max sunstrike damage in pvp is 1082, max draught of ice damage in pvp is 489, max draught of jiva damage in pvp is ~460?

[Kergan]

Not that many data points but I would have expected at least one outright resist with 219 FR, or at least a resist that showed more than ~65% dmg mitigated. Maybe Alecta can shed some light on how partials are calculated now (assuming it changed)?

[COLGATETHEGRANDMASTER]

i don't think it's possible to full resist a nuke like his previous data explained, considering at 170 resist after modifiers you should be seeing a full resist 70% of the time

it seems to be a mostly linear function that gives an inverse relationship between spell damage and how high your resists are

[Thrilla]

http://i.imgur.com/0V554JJ.jpg

some tests i did with rettiwalk.. outright resists = 0, draught of jiva was always really resisted even prior to this patch btw

great change, gotta admit been spoiled with the full dmg draughts, casting 4.5 sec lures viable in mass pvp small scale not so good

[Stasis01]

Wizards are a class that requires 0 skill, they shouldn't have fast casting nukes doing full dmg.

3 Wizards in sync is worse than 10+ Nihi melee, for obvious reasons.

You should be forced to use Lures.

[Juhstin]

Wizards are a class that requires 0 skill, they shouldn't have fast casting nukes doing full dmg.

3 Wizards in sync is worse than 10+ Nihi melee, for obvious reasons.

You should be forced to use Lures.

I can't wait for Stasis to build his own EQ Server with all the complaining he does he'd build the master server for all of us to enjoy.

[Kergan]

It is fortunate for all of us that Stasis has no say or input in anything that goes on here.

I think the biggest thing of note in the data posted so far is it is nearly impossible to land a full damage nuke when you have decent resists which is great. I very distinctly remember lures being the go to nukes for wizards in PVP on live as it is generally not a good idea to rely on RNG in PVP. Considering what most classes/players have HP wise if you get them dispelled a lure is still doing 20-40% of your HP. Dispelling was always important but now it is even more critical.

It will also add viability to a class that relies on low mana ratio unresistable spells for the most part(necro). The way resists previously worked a decent geared necro could barely (if at all) keep up with druid nukes spamming deflux, let alone a wizard leading with sunstrike and spamming draughts.

[Bamz4l]

I can't wait for Stasis to build his own EQ Server with all the complaining he does he'd build the master server for all of us to enjoy.

ya, it would almost feel like a classic experience for once

[Mac Dretti]

ya, it would almost feel like a classic experience for once

Stasis would make rogue 1h damage 200 per swing and have 50 resist make u immune to spell casting

[Nirgon]

Wizards are a class that requires 0 skill


Dunno about 0. Compare Thrilla to Hectorchrist. Something's different there.



they shouldn't have fast casting nukes doing full dmg.


On people in resist gear? Absolutely not. You are right. Hell they shouldn't have their long costing spells do 1082 damage to people with 150 resist, that is crazy.



3 Wizards in sync is worse than 10+ Nihi melee, for obvious reasons.


Can be if target is caught in the cross hairs with the right positioning. Otherwise 3 melees stuck to you is gonna drop you real fast as a caster.


You should be forced to use Lures.

Against geared/buffed targets, absolutely.



The resist tweaks are MUCH better, although still not classic to my likings. But we don't have item loot here so... I hope this is an eye opener that things are better for all here.

I also hope you realized with further tweaking down to the 140 resist range showing more full resists (if not almost always a full resist for most spells) that even with just buffs/no drop you'd be fine with item loot. It really makes game play more interesting and promotes an advantage for people willing to risk EASILY FARMABLE gear.


And by classic I mean he's testing with fkin 202 and seeing damage on non lures... mostly full damage on draught of ice at 120... still an improvement from before I think and that all the people crying about having to heal on a druid rather than mash full wildfires into geared players will slowly come along.

[Stasis01]

I actually look at Thrilla and Hector the exact same, is Thrilla better? They both click their nuke/SS button equally good from what I've seen.

Mind you I didn't watch the botb, but that matters for what?

[Nirgon]

I had Hector take an ice comet from me first and sit there and tunnel vision and trade in classic. So I guess that isn't a matter of skill but wtf is this guy doing. Just saying I saw people try to pick up the wizard and handily fail their faces off at it.

The most problematic part is what you're mostly right about... sunstrikes doing full damage to people in the 150 resist range :P. It looks like that is MOSTLY alleviated now. So there will hopefully be people learning to adjust/more effort involved. You know, like having to cast a dispel or two... refresh skin during a fight rather than 1 1 1 1 1 1 1.

[Juhstin]

Stasis would make rogue 1h damage 200 per swing and have 50 resist make u immune to spell casting

^

[Nirgon]

WoW and its clones have poisoned so many of you.

High hopes Alecta keeps it classic.

[Mac Dretti]

I agree that at 290 fire resist I should be out right resisting.

Partials at 180 ish p good