POLL: Level Progression Cap for T99?

[Lowlife]

Fawqueue submitted the idea of a cap on level progression within Teams 99. While the specifics have yet to be outlined, for the sake of this poll one could assume a level progression cap could be something along the lines of ...

WEEK 1: Level 10
WEEK 2: Level 20
etc

While I was initially against this idea, Alecta and some other members of the community gave their perspective on the idea
People who hit the cap will have nothing to do other than kill those more casual than they are (repeatedly).

I think it will increase the total amount of pvp which is a good thing, but it's worth thinking about when proposing the level cap as being good for the casuals.

and I thought why not create a poll for it.

[Vexenu]

Fawqueue was advocating for an idea I proposed in my modified SZ rules thread (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=120312). Details and rationale:

Cap the speed of leveling shortly after server launch. Something like:

Week 1: Max level 20
Week 2: Max level 30
Week 4: Max level 40
Week 6: Max level 50
Week 8: Earliest consideration of Kunark launch depending on community demand


This means neckbeards can't race ahead of everyone else and dominate the server from the get-go by simply massively outleveling them, as happened with <Ruin> on SZ. This shifts the focus from PvE to PvP, where it belongs on a PvP server. With the 4x XP bonus in place from 1-20, almost everyone should be able to reach level 20 within a week with even modest effort. From there things will open up a little more, but the caps in place should help keep most players in the same general level range, which keeps things fun, and results in battles for PvE zone control rather than just random griefing. Also, imagining a raid-sized force of level 20s descending into Lower Guk during the first week is just hilariously awesome.

[Lowlife]

Thank you for the quote Vexenu, I cited Fawqueue as the originator of the idea in the OP but didn't know where to find his specifics.

[big mouth chew]

not sure if we have enough polls

[Lowlife]

social and communications science are built on surveys bru

[Vexenu]

Also, I disagree with Alecta's contention that people would have nothing to do but grief if they were level locked. Smart players would be farming up lower level PvP gear for their guild/team during that time, so you'd probably see a lot of battles around Upper Guk (Runed Bone Fork), Crushbone (Dwarven Ringmail Tunic) and Unrest (Bloodstained Mantle) to secure those nice resist items early on.

And honestly, keep in mind that these proposed level locks are really only restrictive to the most hardcore players. Having to wait til the second week of the server to hit level 30 shouldn't exactly be onerous. The purpose is just to keep the biggest poopsockers from playing 20 hours a day for the first month and avoiding all PvP due to their headstart.

[Tavrin]

I like the teams concept, but this training wheels crap is getting out of hand.

What's next, GM enforced loot share if one team Nihilum's up the server?

[big mouth chew]

i thought the goal was finding a ruleset where everybody wins?

[Lowlife]

i thought the goal was finding a ruleset where everybody wins?

So, you'd rather grind in seclusion than engage in pvp in crush bone and shit with more people? I really do understand both the yes crowd and no crowd, i get it, but isn't the primary goal here large scale pvp, a larger population, and most importantly fun?

[Pudge]

If we limit to one IP&mac address = you get 1 toon to play, then a level cap may in fact work. Otherwise, the poopsocks will not be "forced to PvP" but will instead create alts on the opposing teams, or alts on their own team, and level multiple chars at once. I have no doubt that ppl like tune and nizzar would create as many characters as possible, and just never play the game the way its creators intended.

[Tikku82]

With level cap the IP restriction will be needed. Otherwise people just level 3-4 toons to lvl 10 , 20 etc..dont think people will stick with 1 if they got time left and capped lvl. That will end badly also

[Elderan]

With level cap the IP restriction will be needed. Otherwise people just level 3-4 toons to lvl 10 , 20 etc..dont think people will stick with 1 if they got time left and capped lvl

IP and or mac address restriction will do nothing to prevent that..

[big mouth chew]

So, you'd rather grind in seclusion than engage in pvp in crush bone and shit with more people? I really do understand both the yes crowd and no crowd, i get it, but isn't the primary goal here large scale pvp, a larger population, and most importantly fun?

bitch you dont know me at ALL obviously

[Lowlife]

IP and or mac address restriction will do nothing to prevent that..

yeah, yeah I know. 12 computers in your dad's garage and 24 phone lines running from moms basement, we're talking about relatively normal people who want to play for pvp and fun, not their sense of accomplishment and self worth. go play blue.

[Weekapaug]

I see the Disneyland server brigade is still at it.

[Vexenu]

Would love to hear a logical argument for why capping players at level 20 and 30 at day 7 and 14 respectively would be so terrible. Do we really have that many prospective no-lifes who want to dedicate their lives to poopsocking EQ for the first two weeks to grind out 50 levels?

Also, I don't think there would be any purpose to people leveling up characters on different teams. What would you gain by doing so? Say you have a level 20 on Good and Evil at the end of week 1. Meanwhile, a level 20 Neutral guild has been farming all the good low level items. You'd just be screwing yourself over and wasting your time.

[kprobe]

it would be interesting to see a cap based off of the average (mode rather than mean) player level. I.e. if the bulk of players make up level 10, you can level to 15... etc that way lots of targets for a long time

[Nytch]

I would restrict it to 2 toons per account......yes they can level up both those toons the that amount of time but you need to give people some options, also guilds are going to need pocket clerics for raid targets when no one wants to make one.

[Weekapaug]

Everquest is a game of character advancement. PVP flows from that...Interrupting others or keeping them from interrupting yours.

You simply aren't going to force people into instanced battleground-type combat by simply limiting their choices of things to do, not to mention an outright lack of content for this or the fact that some classes will be completely gimped for both pve and pvp for days and weeks by this. They may for the first hour after they hit the cap, but after the novelty of screwing around in the qeynos hills in max gear for level 10th wears off the reality that they have nothing else to do for the next 6 days will set in and then they go find something else to do. Roll more toons. Play another server. Play another game.

The thought, for example, of being stuck at 20 for a week, much less under 30 for 2 weeks as a shaman or any of several other classes and actually playing those toons that whole time literally makes me LOL. Doubly so when I consider that anyone who has actually played EQ thinks anyone else will. A week of playing one gimped class stuck at a level while another got some major boost is sure to sustain those pops. lol

You want people to be invested in their characters, not looking for something else to do for the better part of a week. You can't fit square pegs into round holes, and you aren't going to force people to play pvp the way you have dreampt it by clamping the whole game down with heavy handed Disneyland rulesets that will so nothing but encourage people not to play.

And to answer your question, yes, we do. And for good reason. Absent of AA, there is nothing better one can do for ones toon than level. Level gives full ability sets and poises one to get the best gear, which is the second best thing one can do, until max level, when it is the best thing one can do. Can't level your main? You roll alts. It's just the way EQ works. But if you guys think people are going to spend weeks smacking each other with cracked staves and bronze weapons in banded armor while getting nuked by op casters for weeks at a time you are skipping down the yellow brick road.

Everquest is not designed for pvp anyway, much less tiered battleground type play and some classes will be completely gimped and no fun to play whatsoever in this type of environment. Until a month+ when there is no level limit....or players because everyone already ran screaming out of sheer boredom.

Bad idea, sorry.

[Kraftwerk]

IP and or mac address restriction will do nothing to prevent that..

Eldermoran gonna box the shit outta T99 just to prove a point. (That he is super delusional and a sad person)

[kprobe]

Everquest is a game of character advancement. PVP flows from that...Interrupting others or keeping them from interrupting yours.

You simply aren't going to force people into instanced battleground-type combat by simply limiting their choices of things to do, not to mention an outright lack of content for this or the fact that some classes will be completely gimped for both pve and pvp for days and weeks by this. They may for the first hour after they hit the cap, but after the novelty of screwing around in the qeynos hills in max gear for level 10th wears off the reality that they have nothing else to do for the next 6 days will set in and then they go find something else to do. Roll more toons. Play another server. Play another game.

The thought, for example, of being stuck at 20 for a week, much less under 30 for 2 weeks as a shaman or any of several other classes and actually playing those toons that whole time literally makes me LOL. Doubly so when I consider that anyone who has actually played EQ thinks anyone else will. A week of playing one gimped class stuck at a level while another got some major boost is sure to sustain those pops. lol

You want people to be invested in their characters, not looking for something else to do for the better part of a week. You can't fit square pegs into round holes, and you aren't going to force people to play pvp the way you have dreampt it by clamping the whole game down with heavy handed Disneyland rulesets that will so nothing but encourage people not to play.

And to answer your question, yes, we do. And for good reason. Absent of AA, there is nothing better one can do for ones toon than level. Level gives full ability sets and poises one to get the best gear, which is the second best thing one can do, until max level, when it is the best thing one can do. Can't level your main? You roll alts. It's just the way EQ works. But if you guys think people are going to spend weeks smacking each other with cracked staves and bronze weapons in banded armor while getting nuked by op casters for weeks at a time you are skipping down the yellow brick road.

Everquest is not designed for pvp anyway, much less tiered battleground type play and some classes will be completely gimped and no fun to play whatsoever in this type of environment. Until a month+ when there is no level limit....or players because everyone already ran screaming out of sheer boredom.

Bad idea, sorry.

You raise good points, but I wouldn't be surprised if people wouldn't contest for items to get ahead while they wait for the rest to catch up. Those pixels, its why Nihi logs on and off, dreaming of a scenario where they can 1v1 someone with superior pixels.

[Vexenu]

Everquest is a game of character advancement. PVP flows from that...Interrupting others or keeping them from interrupting yours.

You simply aren't going to force people into instanced battleground-type combat by simply limiting their choices of things to do, not to mention an outright lack of content for this or the fact that some classes will be completely gimped for both pve and pvp for days and weeks by this. They may for the first hour after they hit the cap, but after the novelty of screwing around in the qeynos hills in max gear for level 10th wears off the reality that they have nothing else to do for the next 6 days will set in and then they go find something else to do. Roll more toons. Play another server. Play another game.

The thought, for example, of being stuck at 20 for a week, much less under 30 for 2 weeks as a shaman or any of several other classes and actually playing those toons that whole time literally makes me LOL. Doubly so when I consider that anyone who has actually played EQ thinks anyone else will. A week of playing one gimped class stuck at a level while another got some major boost is sure to sustain those pops. lol

You want people to be invested in their characters, not looking for something else to do for the better part of a week. You can't fit square pegs into round holes, and you aren't going to force people to play pvp the way you have dreampt it by clamping the whole game down with heavy handed Disneyland rulesets that will so nothing but encourage people not to play.

And to answer your question, yes, we do. And for good reason. Absent of AA, there is nothing better one can do for ones toon than level. Level gives full ability sets and poises one to get the best gear, which is the second best thing one can do, until max level, when it is the best thing one can do. Can't level your main? You roll alts. It's just the way EQ works. But if you guys think people are going to spend weeks smacking each other with cracked staves and bronze weapons in banded armor while getting nuked by op casters for weeks at a time you are skipping down the yellow brick road.

Everquest is not designed for pvp anyway, much less tiered battleground type play and some classes will be completely gimped and no fun to play whatsoever in this type of environment. Until a month+ when there is no level limit....or players because everyone already ran screaming out of sheer boredom.

Bad idea, sorry.

If the only way you can derive satisfaction from EQ is poopsocking to level 50 as quickly as possible in order to avoid PvP, then yes, this is a bad idea.

If you want to promote a server with a viable long-term population that isn't killed off in the early weeks by a poopsock guild getting a massive head start, then it's a good idea.

The goal is to retain as many players as possible. Leveling caps help to do that.

[myriverse]

I don't think you realize how loooooooong a week of /played time is. People would be bored shitless with this (no poopsock pun intended). I'm a purposely slow XPer, and after just 10 days /played I'm in my 30s. Even I would uninstall EQ with this.

Horrible idea.

[Rust1d?]

While I do not think a cap is the answer, I do think that one of the reasons people left red99 (including me) was that people were able to level fast just because they are able to sit in the basement 24/7 and grind. So you will always have a group of people high level and a huge gap, then people that are in their 20's.

Maybe a good idea is having something like rested xp so if you are someone who does not poopsock, you have a chance to keep up. Also encourages twinks to keep the newbie zones fresh for when new players come in.

[Vexenu]

I don't think you realize how loooooooong a week of /played time is. People would be bored shitless with this (no poopsock pun intended). I'm a purposely slow XPer, and after just 10 days /played I'm in my 30s. Even I would uninstall EQ with this.

Horrible idea.

I'm not sure why you got the idea that the cap is on /played time.

It's in real time. So for the first 7 calendar days, no one can level past 20. From day 7-14, no one can level past 30. Etc...

Let's be serious. That's really only going to affect the most hardcore players, who want to grind to max level as quickly as possible to bypass PvP while leveling.

And remember, these level caps would be ONLY for the first few weeks of the server. After that they would never be a factor.

[Vexenu]

sorry but once players hit the cap they just going to grief hard

are you stupid?

They are stupid and shortsighted then, since they should be farming PvP/resist gear in their level range. This can easily be done starting from level 20.

[Lowlife]

I don't think you realize how loooooooong a week of /played time is. People would be bored shitless with this (no poopsock pun intended). I'm a purposely slow XPer, and after just 10 days /played I'm in my 30s. Even I would uninstall EQ with this.

Horrible idea.

who the fuck said a week of /played.

[Fawqueue]

Glad to see Vexenu credited, I was only trying to draw Alecta's attention to it as the only idea I really saw missing from his list of topics.

Initially I was very against caps. Not because of any logical reason. Just that simple notion that as a human being I simply do not like being told "no" when I expect to have something. In this case, unlimited EverQuest.

But then after I gave Vex's idea some real thought I realized this idea might actually work. As already mentioned, people understand this game far too much after all these years and have worked everything out to a science. But with level caps we can't just roll a necro/mage/enchanter, hardcore grind to 50, then solo farm the shit out of everything. You'll see people working together, camping items in groups with a purpose because it's better to do frenzy at 40 with some friends than wait another week.

And where you have people grouping and leveling in desirable areas, you'll have enemies who are thinking the same thing. Sounds like a recipe for cooperation and PvP we don't see enough on either Red or Blue right now. And I'd like to see if that's how it pans out.

[myriverse]

I'm not sure why you got the idea that the cap is on /played time.

It's in real time. So for the first 7 calendar days, no one can level past 20. From day 7-14, no one can level past 30. Etc...

Let's be serious. That's really only going to affect the most hardcore players, who want to grind to max level as quickly as possible to bypass PvP while leveling.

And remember, these level caps would be ONLY for the first few weeks of the server. After that they would never be a factor.
That just makes zero sense. That's why. Those first few weeks aren't going to mean shit.

[Tassador]

Is exp staying classic?

[Kelsar]

This is by far the dumbest Ideal I've seen. It takes a whole 4 hours or less (with nothing) to hit 10. Play for four hours then go focus on ganking people struggling to level?

-- yeah that will keep the population high...

[Tassador]

How do you level so quick kelsar I got 12 hours on my human necro and I am level7 with the exp bonus

[Kelsar]

PM me. You're doing it wrong!

[Vexenu]

There seems to be some confusion because Lowlife got my proposal a little wrong.

There would be no cap at level 10. The cap for the first week would be level 20.

You have 7 days to level to 20. At day 7, the cap is raised to level 30.

This means that even with level caps, by day 8 or 9 people would be rolling around at level 30. That is hardly unreasonable and most people wouldn't even be affected.

[Milkshake]

Are you guys serious?
If I wanted to have my hand held I'd be playing WoW.
This is Everquest, stop with the casual shit.

[Eslade]

As a casual player, I think this idea is up there with putting nipples on the bat suit.

[Vexenu]

I think a lot of people aren't understanding the purpose of this idea. It's not arbitrary or meant to punish hardcore players. It's a temporary measure designed to promote long-term balance between teams.

When SZ came out, an Evil guild called <Ruin> massively poopsocked during the first month of the server. The fact that this gave them a huge head start in PvE was imbalancing enough, but the real problem was the "brain drain" effect this had on the Good and Neutral teams. A lot of Good and Newt players, upon seeing how far ahead <Ruin> was, saw the writing on the wall, and re-rolled Evil. They thought Evil's early advantage would prove insurmountable, and so re-rolled to be on the winning team. As more and more people did this, it became a self-fulfilling prophecy.

With level caps in place during the first few weeks, no one guild or team could race ahead the others by poopsocking 20 hours a day. This means that by the time the caps come off, each team should have a good number of level 40+ characters who would not be tempted to re-roll on a whim.

When you're a level 10 Good playing on day 5 of the server's life and see there are already level 40 Evil players, the temptation to re-roll and join that side is understandable. Level caps during the first few weeks prevent situations like that from happening. This should go a long way toward ensuring that each team has good long-term prospects by keeping the losing teams from bleeding players early on.