T99 and Item Loot Poll

[SamwiseRed]

EDIT: Item loot is confirmed for T99.

not possibly, absolutely in the name of science!

Poll is anonymous.

I honestly don't think it's a good idea for teams server but I voted yes because Teams > FFA. Go go good team!

[meatspin]

someone is scared

[Sirken]

Possibly in the name of science, the teams server will have some kind of item loot. Again not confirmed but I am interested to see if this will turn would-be T99'ers will look away with it enabled.
Poll is anonymous.

I am not for item loot but I will defintely be playing on Teams. Go go good team!

not possibly, absolutely in the name of science!

[Dulu]

Lost an ikky BP on Rallos back in the day due to a cheater/hacker.

Decided to never play with that kind of ruleset again, due to the fact people will cheat, and you will die...

[Lowlife]

Sirk, I trust you bro. Science be praised. But you gotta sell it to the bluebies on their forum man, I want to see a whole propaganda campaign with you at the helm. Tell those motherfuckers just the tip.

[tomato2]

Lost an ikky BP on Rallos back in the day due to a cheater/hacker.

Decided to never play with that kind of ruleset again, due to the fact people will cheat, and you will die...

did it happen in steamfont outside the mino caves? : )

[Combobreaker]

Loot would be amazing, however it should be dumbed down a lot for the future/health of the server.

ie,

- items in magic bags cant be looted
- weapons/range cant be looted

this way, if you are scared of losing your prized pixels - you wont use them in pvp and instead, keep them safe.

[SamwiseRed]

hmm magic bags, are there enough magic bags in game to fill inventory? if there were only 1-2 i could see that being a good alternative but i seriously hate the bagging mechanic. there needs to be no drop alternatives for sure. sol ro quests, not sure why they arent no drop anyway, at least you arent naked.

[heartbrand]

I would love item loot but without anti plugging code it will result in everyone hugging zone lines harder than they already do on red99 with no penalty for dying

[SamwiseRed]

I would love item loot but without anti plugging code it will result in everyone hugging zone lines harder than they already do on red99 with no penalty for dying

good point, zoneline dancing and plugging already at a all time high because noone wants to get YT. item loot only going to encourage this more.

[Zade]

http://www.recaption.com/uploads/181254f91ad04eef43.jpg

time to man up for item loot.

[Lowlife]

bluebies love item loot apparently.

[Sirken]

good point, zoneline dancing and plugging already at a all time high because noone wants to get YT. item loot only going to encourage this more.
need to force players to pop out on the other side and not be LD gods, just stand there retarded and die.

[SamwiseRed]

need to force players to pop out on the other side and not be LD gods, just stand there retarded and die.

now we are on the same page. yes please.

[Coriolis]

Of course there will be 'some' kind of item loot. Mobs gotta be dropping my pixels.

Doesn't mean players should.

[fuark]

I would love item loot but without anti plugging code it will result in everyone hugging zone lines harder than they already do on red99 with no penalty for dying

This.

I play blue for looking cool in costly pixels. Red is for fun. So.. item loot I'm cool with.

But plugging is literally the dumbest shit in the history of dumb shit. Item loot will make this worse.

need to force players to pop out on the other side and not be LD gods, just stand there retarded and die.

YEA.

[Lowlife]

sam constantly stepping on my dick with the polls, see server chat http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=127805

[SamwiseRed]

uh i made this poll 30 min before you lol

had no idea you were gonna do the same after me. i am a god but not all knowing.

[Kergan]

Just curious, who here voting for item loot actually played on RZ when item loot was enabled?

The reason I hated item loot is because as one of the few people who would actually wear all my gear I found it ruined PVP for me. People were too easy to kill, especially as an enchanter, when they didn't have MR to resist anything post tash.

Since Sirken has confirmed it, I will stop arguing against it and instead try to discuss ideas on how to make it feasible. I posted in the other thread about it...

[SamwiseRed]

rz item loot went fucking full retard when augs were put into game.

[Lowlife]

imagine the bards running buckwild when people wear cloth and shit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiB9LQzeRK0

[SamwiseRed]

gonna even less melees than we have now i know that for sure. gonna be gank city.

[Kergan]

Another reason item loot is rough is because a wizard for example, can do the exact same damage over a short period of time (enough to drop someone especially in a small group) bear ass naked as they can fully VP geared.

A warrior on the other hand using nothing but a 2her has not only his/her damage output cut down significantly due to loss of stats, but their survivability and ability to avoid being CC'd is limited significantly as well.

Essentially, the risk vs. reward is highly tilted towards casters.

[Tikku82]

Another reason item loot is rough is because a wizard for example, can do the exact same damage over a short period of time (enough to drop someone especially in a small group) bear ass naked as they can fully VP geared.

A warrior on the other hand using nothing but a 2her has not only his/her damage output cut down significantly due to loss of stats, but their survivability and ability to avoid being CC'd is limited significantly as well.

Essentially, the risk vs. reward is highly tilted towards casters.

Good point. Probably 70-80% of the playerbase will roll a caster. Simply because items wont matter that much.

Personally not into item looting that much. Should go towards original SZ rules except from team balance. Coin loot would be fine.

[Kergan]

Good point. Probably 70-80% of the playerbase will roll a caster. Simply because items wont matter that much.

I'd be interested to see the level 52+ class breakdowns on each server. I'd be willing to bet that R99 has a much higher percentage of casters than P99. An item loot T99 would push it even higher.

That being said, a geared melee with some clickies can absolutely wreck a caster in seconds in the Kunark era.

[SamwiseRed]

I'd be interested to see the level 52+ class breakdowns on each server. I'd be willing to bet that R99 has a much higher percentage of casters than P99. An item loot T99 would push it even higher.

That being said, a geared melee with some clickies can absolutely wreck a caster in seconds in the Kunark era.

could just /who all count classnamegoeshere

[Vexenu]

Item loot = literally half the server rolls Druids and Wizards and port around naked looking for easy ganks. The other half of the server zone plugs instantly when PvP that isn't overwhelmingly in their favor goes down. Server is more dead than Red within months.

To be blunt, "for science" is a stupid fucking attitude. I get that it's nilbog's box to play with, but that doesn't make it any less stupid. It's like if Wal-Mart ran a special where half the customers got their items for free and the other half got stabbed in the face by the cashier. Who the fuck is gonna shop there?

If nilbog wants a Teams server with item loot, that's his prerogative, but any type of item loot is going to turn away a ton of potential players right off the bat. The server would only reach a fraction of its potential. It seems very short-sighted to go to the trouble of making a new server only to cripple it with item loot, which is one of the most universally unpopular features in EQ. There is a reason that item loot debuted on RZ but was never implemented on the later PvP servers. It's just about the worst feature possible in a game that is all about acquiring gear.

Imagine if one of your items was randomly deleted each time you died in PvE? Would anyone clamor to play on that ruleset? Of course not. It would be fucking retarded.

And it's no less stupid to lose items in PvP. All it does is encourage extremely lame tactics and running away. Item loot turns a PvP server into a gank and run server.

[Lowlife]

w/e man bring it

[Nune]

Item loot = literally half the server rolls Druids and Wizards and port around naked looking for easy ganks. The other half of the server zone plugs instantly when PvP that isn't overwhelmingly in their favor goes down. Server is more dead than Red within months.

To be blunt, "for science" is a stupid fucking attitude. I get that it's nilbog's box to play with, but that doesn't make it any less stupid. It's like if Wal-Mart ran a special where half the customers got their items for free and the other half got stabbed in the face by the cashier. Who the fuck is gonna shop there?

If nilbog wants a Teams server with item loot, that's his prerogative, but any type of item loot is going to turn away a ton of potential players right off the bat. The server would only reach a fraction of its potential. It seems very short-sighted to go to the trouble of making a new server only to cripple it with item loot, which is one of the most universally unpopular features in EQ. There is a reason that item loot debuted on RZ but was never implemented on the later PvP servers. It's just about the worst feature possible in a game that is all about acquiring gear.

Imagine if one of your items was randomly deleted each time you died in PvE? Would anyone clamor to play on that ruleset? Of course not. It would be fucking retarded.

And it's no less stupid to lose items in PvP. All it does is encourage extremely lame tactics and running away. Item loot turns a PvP server into a gank and run server.

[SamwiseRed]

if its not gonna be classic just release it now so we can start the grief.

[Kelsar]

highly recommend the following:
1. full coin loot
2. Ear (turn in for corpse summon pots)
3. one item (not primary/secondary/bp/legs)
4. All bags' content need to be displayed and lootable (prevents people from ninja bagging)

[Layne]

The amount of time it takes to get a rare item in this game vs getting ganked by a group of naked wizards is why item loot sucks for a healthy population.

[Elspeth]

item loot = server failure

[Elderan]

There are 3 things which can kill this new server..

Allow training
Allow no pvp range limit
Allow item loot

[SamwiseRed]

There are 3 things which can kill this new server..

Allow training
Allow no pvp range limit
Allow item loot

good news for you tho right?

[Lowlife]

One of the most obnoxious parts of red is all the morons who think that because they can kill noobs in Unrest with a fungi, cloak of flames, and a ragebringer/RFS they are some sort of Elfquest badasses.

IMO every item should have a 'max-lootable-level' property and if your character dies in PVP under that level, your item can be looted. An easy way to set max lootable would be any item from a mob = mob_level-15. So fungi tunics would be lootable off twinks below level 41, Cloak of Flames below 40, RFS below 35, Epic below 50, etc.

[SamwiseRed]

im excited for teams server but to be quite honest.

/realtalk
i think the announcement of item loot may have just killed the server before it even started.
/realtalk

but i am excited nonetheless.

[Elderan]

good news for you tho right?

Pretty much guarantees teams will merge into red...

So yes, good for me.

[SamwiseRed]

Pretty much guarantees teams will merge into red...

So yes, good for me.

for the second time ever, i agree with u. the first time being marry the ass and buy the tits. item loot has failed every server, it attracts even more griefers than red99. new server gonna be fun as fuck but i dont see it lasting that long. all it takes is for someone to lose an item they spent weeks camping or questing and its peace *****.

[Lowlife]

Blue not liking it.

http://oi40.tinypic.com/21awbyd.jpg

[NotKringe]

Item loot = literally half the server rolls Druids and Wizards and port around naked looking for easy ganks. The other half of the server zone plugs instantly when PvP that isn't overwhelmingly in their favor goes down. Server is more dead than Red within months.

To be blunt, "for science" is a stupid fucking attitude. I get that it's nilbog's box to play with, but that doesn't make it any less stupid. It's like if Wal-Mart ran a special where half the customers got their items for free and the other half got stabbed in the face by the cashier. Who the fuck is gonna shop there?

If nilbog wants a Teams server with item loot, that's his prerogative, but any type of item loot is going to turn away a ton of potential players right off the bat. The server would only reach a fraction of its potential. It seems very short-sighted to go to the trouble of making a new server only to cripple it with item loot, which is one of the most universally unpopular features in EQ. There is a reason that item loot debuted on RZ but was never implemented on the later PvP servers. It's just about the worst feature possible in a game that is all about acquiring gear.

Imagine if one of your items was randomly deleted each time you died in PvE? Would anyone clamor to play on that ruleset? Of course not. It would be fucking retarded.

And it's no less stupid to lose items in PvP. All it does is encourage extremely lame tactics and running away. Item loot turns a PvP server into a gank and run server.


It really depends on how they do it... What items they make No-Drop etc... Give people incentive to want to actually raid for higher end gear.. Just so they can get that no drop... On RZ I was ecstatic to have every filled with No drop, and if the resists get catered to correctly, it could make for very intense pvp.. IT would certainly detour people from bind rushing etc outside of Fearportal etc.. Could be glorious, we shouldn't be bashing anyone until we know exactly how it will pan out..

[Kelsar]

so how do you keep a game like this fresh for years?

ITEM LOOT!

[Greegon]

item loot confirmed? yep, definitely rolling a druid or wizard

[Vexenu]

Here's the thing: if you make enough changes so that item loot becomes somewhat workable and balanced (like increasing the number of no-drop items) then guess what? You effectively no longer have an item loot server! Since after a certain point everyone who sticks around will be mostly geared in no-drop. The only thing being looted will be Jacinth rings. Yawn.

On the other hand, you have already scared off over 50% of your potential player base, who never gave the server a chance after hearing "item loot" and didn't stick around the read the fine print.

[Lowlife]

Here's the thing: if you make enough changes so that item loot becomes somewhat workable and balanced (like increasing the number of no-drop items) then guess what? You effectively no longer have an item loot server! Since after a certain point everyone who sticks around will be mostly geared in no-drop. The only thing being looted will be Jacinth rings. Yawn.

On the other hand, you have already scared off over 50% of your potential player base, who never gave the server a chance after hearing "item loot" and didn't stick around the read the fine print.

http://oi39.tinypic.com/2rhqq1l.jpg

[Grumppygregsz]

Item loot = a server full of naked wizards and druids remaining in the mid-level range to gank and grief whomever they can. Item loot = players frantically bagging their valuables while running for a zoneline (or spamming gate if a caster) once that first nuke hits instead of turning to face and possibly kill their attacker. Item loot = a server where pvp can be so costly that it is more frequently avoided than participated in. In short Item loot = doa teams server.

[Loto]

In the context of a Teams server, however, this isn't the Hell-on-Earth you guys keep making it out to be.

Imagine shit is going down in GFay, good vs neuts (elves and shorties or some shit). Elf A with Fungi goes down, and Dwarf A runs away with it. The elves find out that this dude is running off with a fungi, and they commit to the kill and go after him. They find out that Dwarf A has a fungi AND CoF. Which to loot?

Bring it the fuck on.

[Robdukes]

Sorry but that scenario seems unlikely. If anyone has a fungi or CoF they are going to only have it equipped when in PVE with no chance of losing it. Would you run around wearing it during mass PVP?

[Loto]

Assuming bagged items can be looted.

If you leave your pixels in the bank because you afraid to use them, then you might as well not even have them.

[Lowlife]

In the context of a Teams server, however, this isn't the Hell-on-Earth you guys keep making it out to be.

Imagine shit is going down in GFay, good vs neuts (elves and shorties or some shit). Elf A with Fungi goes down, and Dwarf A runs away with it. The elves find out that this dude is running off with a fungi, and they commit to the kill and go after him. They find out that Dwarf A has a fungi AND CoF. Which to loot?

Bring it the fuck on.

The main problem plaguing r99 is low population, if red had 900 people on right now I doubt we'd even be talking about a new server, having said that you need to ask yourself not if item loot is fun, not whether or not you personally like it mentally masturbating to scenarios in which you're looting a Fungi. Ask yourself if will item loot will..

A) Bring new players or B) Scare away new players?

A) Increase player retention or B) Increase player attrition?

A) Increase the quality and frequency of PvP or B) Promote more plugging, zoning, gating, and general PvP avoidance?

Item loot IS fun, I personally enjoyed it, having said that actually PvPing against players instead of skulking around another dead box hoping not to be caught by a group of nude wizards is less fun.

[Kelsar]

just make resists right and all is good in the world...

[SamwiseRed]

i went on live and to gauge the interest. besides being dead as fuck the four players who werent afk said nah to item loot.

note: the four players may very well have been boxed, god damn zek is a true ghost town.

[Knawga]

alot of the people from Rallos have long quit since they removed item loot that was the saddest day of Eq history im super stoked and have tons of people coming to play cuz item loot will be on this server

[Knawga]

as far as hacking goes ive seen alot less hacking on p99 red than ive ever seen on live props to the gms who actually care about they servers and removing toxic people who hack +1

[Pudge]

o snap. ITEM LEWT

keep it neutered though. blues (yea, all those ppl we're trying to attract by opening a teams server) will be griefed off left and right if it's not severely toned down. item loot didnt even work on vztz, pop significantly declined each time it was put in



.........but hell, there was never a greater way to farm T-crowns than by exploding Twoclose!

[Kazinsky]

Just want to say I really enjoy reading the threads/thoughts of Vexenu and Aenor.

Every EQ PvP Server Ever = literally half the server rolls Druids and Wizards and port around naked looking for easy ganks. The other half of the server zone plugs instantly when PvP that isn't overwhelmingly in their favor goes down.


Fixed that for you pal.


There is a reason that item loot debuted on RZ but was never implemented on the later PvP servers. It's just about the worst feature possible in a game that is all about acquiring gear.


Played Tallon Zek early on live. We had item loot. It was amazing. Running around naked with Fine Steel Two Handers pushing the darkies out of Freeport and the Commonlands. When there is no item loot everyone is 100% resistant to everything and melee are gods so crying about naked casters is silly. You only wear what you can afford to lose.


Imagine if one of your items was randomly deleted each time you died in PvE? Would anyone clamor to play on that ruleset? Of course not. It would be fucking retarded.


Imagine if we stopped and thought about how item loot could be fun. Eve Online destroys your gear and allows people to loot it. Game has been going strong for many years. Item loot would be fine if people would stop screaming bloody murder every time it is mentioned.


And it's no less stupid to lose items in PvP. All it does is encourage extremely lame tactics and running away. Item loot turns a PvP server into a gank and run server.


They will do that with or without item loot, just like they will plug and exploit with or without item loot. Losing items in PvP actually makes PvP meaningful. People are opposed to losing equipment (and I get it no one wants to lose their poopsocked items) so I have some ideas:

Broaden the range of un-lootable slots (Primary/Secondary/Range/Ammo) to include non-jewelry pieces (see where I'm going with this).

If we want to throw looting equipment out then explore other options like:

Allow players to loot bags - the entire thing and its contents. This is a lot less painful than losing equipped items, but still worthwhile imo.


So you steal their food/water - now they have to buy more (but you just took all their money).
You steal their reagents - they can no longer rezz, rune, summon pets, etc.
If you are lucky you will get a nice gem or junk loot.


We can make item loot work and make it fun.

[pharmakos]

is a halfling druid going to be able to loot a helm of rile off of an iksar, even though no one on his team will be able to use it?

^ random example, there are probably better examples

[Bazia]

god cant wait to make a wizard

[Vexenu]

I don't get this idea that PvP without item loot is not meaningful. Killing and Dying isn't meaningful? Mass PvP for raid mobs isn't meaningful? Zone control isn't meaningful? Pride/reputation isn't meaningful? How does looting a piece of resist jewelry or something even less valuable (95% of the time at least) suddenly make PvP more meaningful?

I killed a lot of people on SZ with no item loot. I didn't need the incentive. PvP was fun by itself. The challenge, the risk, the thrill. Sure, some will say those things are enhanced by item loot - and this can be true. But more often than not item loot has the opposite effect, and makes people more risk averse and cowardly than they would be otherwise.

The bottom line is that item loot basically takes EQ PvP and puts it on steroids. It's just way too hardcore for most players' tastes. A vocal minority will love it, but the majority want nothing to do with it. And this, more than any other reason, is why item loot is a bad idea: it's simply unpopular. If for some reason the reverse were true, and item loot was extremely popular while I personally hated it, I would put my weight behind item loot regardless of how I personally felt, simply because more than anything else Teams needs as many players as possible.

[jestingoff02]

Good team all the way if i even play t99

[Fawqueue]

I have a better proposition if we insist on item loot in the name of science: Wipe Red and start it fresh at the exact same time as teams with RZ style item loot.

Two servers, two different rulesets, see which is truly more popular a year later and THEN merge. That's more scientific than taking the most exciting news for PvP in a long time (teams99) and destroying it's population before it's even started (item loot).

[Lowlife]

I have a better proposition if we insist on item loot in the name of science: Wipe Red and start it fresh at the exact same time as teams with RZ style item loot.

Two servers, two different rulesets, see which is truly more popular a year later and THEN merge. That's more scientific than taking the most exciting news for PvP in a long time (teams99) and destroying it's population before it's even started (item loot).

your ideas are actually even worse than mine about no bards and shit.

[Rec]

food, water, and fishing related items

[Fawqueue]

your ideas are actually even worse than mine about no bards and shit.

The difference is mine was a joke.

[Tikku82]

Item loot = literally half the server rolls Druids and Wizards and port around naked looking for easy ganks. The other half of the server zone plugs instantly when PvP that isn't overwhelmingly in their favor goes down. Server is more dead than Red within months.

To be blunt, "for science" is a stupid fucking attitude. I get that it's nilbog's box to play with, but that doesn't make it any less stupid. It's like if Wal-Mart ran a special where half the customers got their items for free and the other half got stabbed in the face by the cashier. Who the fuck is gonna shop there?

If nilbog wants a Teams server with item loot, that's his prerogative, but any type of item loot is going to turn away a ton of potential players right off the bat. The server would only reach a fraction of its potential. It seems very short-sighted to go to the trouble of making a new server only to cripple it with item loot, which is one of the most universally unpopular features in EQ. There is a reason that item loot debuted on RZ but was never implemented on the later PvP servers. It's just about the worst feature possible in a game that is all about acquiring gear.

Imagine if one of your items was randomly deleted each time you died in PvE? Would anyone clamor to play on that ruleset? Of course not. It would be fucking retarded.

And it's no less stupid to lose items in PvP. All it does is encourage extremely lame tactics and running away. Item loot turns a PvP server into a gank and run server.

Have to agree. While item loot may sound cool for some, the majority dislikes it. New server would never get high population and would soon be as or even more dead that cuurent Red. With coin loot only like SZ was it could be wonderful server. Item loot would kill it for the masses. DONT do it!

People will just avoid pvp at all costs. Thats the purpose of pvp server? No. More pvp action the better.

[Rec]

I didn't even notice what this poll even asks. I thought it was do we want item loot or not. Shouldn't we ask that first?

[Kazinsky]

The bottom line is that item loot basically takes EQ PvP and puts it on steroids. It's just way too hardcore for most players' tastes.


Pretty sure allowing people to wear fungis/CoS with no fear of losing them and all that fancy resist gear allows them to be "on steroids" more than "naked druids and wizards ganking people".


A vocal minority will love it, but the majority want nothing to do with it. And this, more than any other reason, is why item loot is a bad idea: it's simply unpopular.

Really? I see 45 yes and 26 no. Seems like this thread supports item loot so far.

[Pudge]

Really? I see 45 yes and 26 no. Seems like this thread supports item loot so far.

the whole point of making a teams server is to get those 26. Actually, there are prob. far less blues monitoring/voting in this poll than red.

I voted I'd play T99 even with item loot, but i know it's a bad idea. despite the awesome fun you'll have looting a couple items off ppl, you will find there are fewer and fewer ppl to kill as the time goes on. the pvp will be even shittier than it is now, with everyone plugging at 50%, or just straight up auto-running before the fight even begins, bagging their shit (depending on rules).

Item loot will have to be very dainty for it to work - i suggested stackable items only (food, water, rune, gems, skins/silks, etc.) most stackable items are not that big a deal to lose, but could be a great find every once in awhile, and at the very least you could nab some food or drink off a guy. this is the kind of stuff ppl need to be looting, not Tcrowns and fungis - that's just too griefy for most to endure. perhaps limiting lootable items to just jewelry (bagged or not) or even just worn jewelry, is also limited enough..

[Zihm]

You don't "experiment" by changing more than one variable at a time. If the server fails (or succeeds) you won't know if it is because of teams, item loot, or the novelty of a new server.

http://i.imgur.com/4A9Px7S.jpg?1

[pharmakos]

^ thats a valid point

[Vexenu]

Can someone explain to me the purpose of looting food and water?

Is that really going to sweeten your kill to loot 20 loaves of bread?

Or stacks of items in general? If it's random, people will just carry around 20 stacks of bat wings and delete them as needed. Maybe once in a blue moon you'll get lucky and loot a stack of peridots or something.

I think half-assed item loot of that type is almost worse than normal item loot. It's just dumb and pointless.

[Velerin]

FFA and item loot (actually and exp loss) are things that people always seem to think are good for pvp. But they actually lead to less pvp.
All you have to do is compare Rallos to Vallon/Tallon. There was way more pvp on VZ/TZ. Rallos was naked pk gankers and quick bagging no fight back gankees.
Items in EQ are hard to get. Some things are quested items that may have taken weeks (or more) for someone to acquire. Just to lose to a ganker because you had to AFK and go get the door, or heaven forbid interact with another person outside the game (spouse, kid, someone at the door, etc.)
The ONLY good aspect of item loot is the gankers are usually naked instead of some fungi twink so more killable.
Does anyone remember Rallos? It was just a bunch of naked people running around who would put there stuff on if they were sure there were no 'pkers' around. It was fun to try to put together your best no drop outfit..but than that destroys the whole purpose of item loot actually.
I kill the guy in my zone because he's on the enemy team and needs to die. I don't kill him to score his banded mail.

I think for this server to thrive like any server it needs a good balance of hardcore people and casual people:
For example, a casual player sometimes things come up where they have to afk for something without warning. On a pvp server there's a good chance they come back dead. They deal with it, sucks but comes with the territory of a pvp server. Now they have a CR or maybe log for the night a little pissed. Now if that same thing happens and they also took their totemic helm that they quested for a week or more to get, there's a good chance they throw up my hands and say screw this server I'm out. Someone might say well you should've bagged your stuff before you went afk...but unless EQ is your job, stuff happens around you that is more important than a video game. For the server to thrive you need those casual guys to want to play too.

[runlvlzero]

FFA and item loot (actually and exp loss) are things that people always seem to think are good for pvp. But they actually lead to less pvp.
All you have to do is compare Rallos to Vallon/Tallon. There was way more pvp on VZ/TZ. Rallos was naked pk gankers and quick bagging no fight back gankees.
Items in EQ are hard to get. Some things are quested items that may have taken weeks (or more) for someone to acquire. Just to lose to a ganker because you had to AFK and go get the door, or heaven forbid interact with another person outside the game (spouse, kid, someone at the door, etc.)
The ONLY good aspect of item loot is the gankers are usually naked instead of some fungi twink so more killable.
Does anyone remember Rallos? It was just a bunch of naked people running around who would put there stuff on if they were sure there were no 'pkers' around. It was fun to try to put together your best no drop outfit..but than that destroys the whole purpose of item loot actually.
I kill the guy in my zone because he's on the enemy team and needs to die. I don't kill him to score his banded mail.

You nailed it. Some of us look back with nostalgia at our wars covered in no drop with buffs (and this actually worked out in many zones) and think it was legit fun. But your right. It actually changes the game focus quite dramatically into the ganked vs the gankers. Something I think teams 99 needs to avoid to stand out apart from red 99. I think some kind of useful insignia loot would be better.

[Tassador]

Item loot and broadcast plunders for the wow effect.

[Kelsar]

It's pretty simple...

If you want a penalty/reward for PvP go play Teams.
If you want no penalty/reward for PvP go play R99.
If you don't want PvP, or can't handle it, go Blue99.

Teams confirmed 100% more red than R99.

[pharmakos]

Teams confirmed 100% more red than R99.

Blue confirmed 100% more red than R99

[SamwiseRed]

Everyone I've talked to about this has said about the same thing. Gonna be fun but server will be deader than red99. Item loot will grief more people off red than no guard assist. thats a fact jack.

[SamwiseRed]

in the name of science reminds of me the Stanford prison experiment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment

i hope it doesnt end that way but science can be evil sometimes.

[jestingoff02]

I think for this server to thrive like any server it needs a good balance of hardcore people and casual people:
For example, a casual player sometimes things come up where they have to afk for something without warning. On a pvp server there's a good chance they come back dead. They deal with it, sucks but comes with the territory of a pvp server. Now they have a CR or maybe log for the night a little pissed. Now if that same thing happens and they also took their totemic helm that they quested for a week or more to get, there's a good chance they throw up my hands and say screw this server I'm out. Someone might say well you should've bagged your stuff before you went afk...but unless EQ is your job, stuff happens around you that is more important than a video game. For the server to thrive you need those casual guys to want to play too.

itm loot is a bad idea, period. but i guess the 30 gankers will be ganking each-other all alone in a few months

[Chronoburn]

http://addins.whig.com/blogs/steviedirt/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/JACKoutspective-uncle-si-thats-a-fact-jack-300x300.png

[Tassador]

guys we got to make sure this last forever ok?

[Kelsar]

Everyone I've talked to about this has said about the same thing. Gonna be fun but server will be deader than red99. Item loot will grief more people off red than no guard assist. thats a fact jack.

Moving this to solved: Increase rare mob spawn chance and increase drop rates.

Yes, you will have to fight your way back into the zone and farm pixels you've already fought to farm. Welcome to PvP my friend, the way it was meant to be.

[jestingoff02]

Moving this to solved: Increase rare mob spawn chance and increase drop rates.

Yes, you will have to fight your way back into the zone and farm pixels you've already fought to farm. Welcome to PvP my friend, the way it was meant to be.

ya, fun but wont be lvling a toon to 60, maby just log on till my naked wiz and battle till i die

[Kelsar]

In all seriousness, not everyone can handle PVP let alone an item loot PvP. It's probably not meant for many of you who QQ already with just a discussion on it.

A single server will never cater to everyone. We see what R99 is and will be; blue, with the ability to pvp and keep raid mobs contested. There has to be an element of risk and reward associated with PvP. Let's pick a new path and go!

Proposition A: Item loot rights, all bags exposed, to the hero that dealt the death blow. The hero gets to choose 1 item. Item cannot be the opponent's primary, secondary, chest piece or leggings (must leave in something for melees).

[jestingoff02]

your right, im just peved that some or the low population on p99 will be taken for a few months. maby it will be good i tend to forget you cant loot no drop items and there is a 5 lvl range for item loot

[Vexenu]

In all seriousness, not everyone can handle PVP let alone an item loot PvP. It's probably not meant for many of you who QQ already with just a discussion on it.

A single server will never cater to everyone. We see what R99 is and will be; blue, with the ability to pvp and keep raid mobs contested. There has to be an element of risk and reward associated with PvP. Let's pick a new path and go!

Proposition A: Item loot rights, all bags exposed, to the hero that dealt the death blow. The hero gets to choose 1 item. Item cannot be the opponent's primary, secondary, chest piece or leggings (must leave in something for melees).

How about a server where when you die, your computer and monitor explode and imbed razor sharp pieces of metal and plastic in your face?

Are you hardcore enough???

[Chronoburn]

People do realize that on RZ you either pvp'd naked or in no-drops, right? Oh I guess you could either plug or run/bag.

Sounds fun.

[JayN]

Item loot = literally half the server rolls Druids and Wizards and port around naked looking for easy ganks. The other half of the server zone plugs instantly when PvP that isn't overwhelmingly in their favor goes down. Server is more dead than Red within months.

To be blunt, "for science" is a stupid fucking attitude. I get that it's nilbog's box to play with, but that doesn't make it any less stupid. It's like if Wal-Mart ran a special where half the customers got their items for free and the other half got stabbed in the face by the cashier. Who the fuck is gonna shop there?

If nilbog wants a Teams server with item loot, that's his prerogative, but any type of item loot is going to turn away a ton of potential players right off the bat. The server would only reach a fraction of its potential. It seems very short-sighted to go to the trouble of making a new server only to cripple it with item loot, which is one of the most universally unpopular features in EQ. There is a reason that item loot debuted on RZ but was never implemented on the later PvP servers. It's just about the worst feature possible in a game that is all about acquiring gear.

Imagine if one of your items was randomly deleted each time you died in PvE? Would anyone clamor to play on that ruleset? Of course not. It would be fucking retarded.

And it's no less stupid to lose items in PvP. All it does is encourage extremely lame tactics and running away. Item loot turns a PvP server into a gank and run server.

Have fun on your new server gais! I wont be see'ing you there looks like

[Noselacri]

I'm not even logging in once to check it out if there's itemloot. I'll genuinely wager $500 that the server will be as dead as red within a month. What a fucking joke and a waste of everyone's time it would be to ruin he server before it even gets started. It takes a special kind of retard to think an itemloot EQ PvP emu will be anything but a farcical disaster and a guaranteed failure. Time to see if the developers are imbeciles.

[Dullah]

It's pretty simple...

If you want a penalty/reward for PvP go play Teams.
If you want no penalty/reward for PvP go play R99.
If you don't want PvP, or can't handle it, go Blue99.

Teams confirmed 100% more red than R99.

server where hypothetically 33% of server is not attackable more red than ffa?

cool story

[Chanur]

If item loot there should be zero no drops with main and off hand not loot able. No drop ship on RZ was really lame.

Either way if there is item loot enjoy playing with the same 30 people until it's shut down.

[Chronoburn]

in the name of science reminds of me the Stanford prison experiment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment

i hope it doesnt end that way but science can be evil sometimes.

That experiment cracks me up.

"Sanitary conditions declined rapidly, exacerbated by the guards' refusal to allow some prisoners to urinate or defecate anywhere but in a bucket placed in their cell. As punishment, the guards would not let the prisoners empty the sanitation bucket."

I'm not sure what rapidly means but seeing that the experiment only last 6 days ... I'm assuming these people were peeing in buckets within the first day.

Sadly, I see similarities between this experiment and the red99 experiment.

[Chronoburn]

I think I got it.

This thread is the science experiment.

http://static3.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/just+_48aafb7824206d66abb15db23afc4e69.jpeg

[Lawler]

server where hypothetically 33% of server is not attackable more red than ffa?

cool story

50% of red is Nihilum... Ill let you think about that.

[runlvlzero]

TBH, it wouldn't be that hard to code a classic 1-50, item loot, +/- 4 server. Most of the NPC stuff is done. Should take a month tops for all these hard asses who are so badass to figure it out.

[Dullah]

50% of red is Nihilum... Ill let you think about that.

40 people on a raid with 180 online 3 days ago.

Ill let you do the math.

[SamwiseRed]

40 is a low number for trak. should recruit more imo.

[Lawler]

40 is a low number for trak. should recruit more imo.

Confirmed, better have elderan do some number crunching.

[Smedy]

I think item loot is a terrible idea, i've been active on eqemulator.org since 2004 and ran 3-4 servers my self and played every single vztz box since 2007. Whenever ive personally imbplemented item loot or played on a server where it was implemented, the server has always collapsed within 2-3 months.

Here's a few reasons item loot doesn't work in todays everquest.

1. Everquest is far from balanced. With people knowing every single mechanic of the game having item loot is even worse, many things worked on live cause the audience was new to game.

2. Building a macro to swap out all gear and put it into a bag/bags isn't hard with todays software and cannot really be called a cheat as many mouse drivers for gaming devices has support for doing this in the driver. Do you really want to ban people from installing their keyboard/mouse software and call it third party hax? Within 2 weeks of release of server with item loot you'd see each side having a working macro that's rendering the item loot we know useless. Ofcourse there's ways to costumize this but from what i've experienced on P99 anything that isn't classic is bad.

3. One of the reasons Red99 has plummeted was because it was way to harsh, the XP was to slow and having xp loss on pvp death was a terrible idea (yes i supported this 2011, but i've played with it so i've seen how bad of an idea it really was). I think red99 would have thrived if all the fixes we have gotten over the past year was in at launch. On teams we will have those fixes, but adding item loot to that i think it evens out and puts the server back at square one. People simply won't play if there's item loot, it's gonna be a wasteland and finding pvp is going to be incredible hard, people will hug zonelines and gate the instant you show up in the zone, again everyone knows the game way to well to fall into any situation where you die. In EQ you don't have to die, unless you're really retarded and/or bad.

4. Once a team has won the server, there's no one around to fight, cause item loot will easily keep them from winning anything and losing will have such a huge impact on the small bros trying to do it big that it will demoralize them and make them quit.

TL DR version:

From my experience item loot would kill the server within 3 months.

[Cid]

I voted against Item Loot. Many people have already listed excellent reasons for being against it. Smedy made a great post above me for general reasoning.

For a more selfish reason, I grind/farm/camp my ass off to get what I have. I like the pvp environment even though I do not participate in pvp, but if there was item loot on Red now I could easily lose item I spent days to weeks farming to buy to some asshole who rolled a wizard when their spell ranges were broken, or to bards when Highsun was an unresistable lockdown-debuff.
I know I am a fucking weirdo not pvping on a pvp server, but there will be lots of others that will run around solo or as a duo with a friend or "spouse that never moves at the same time but is totally real and not being boxed on my ip exemption" and they will stay that way for a multitude of reasons. Those people are going to work for what they have, and for it to be taken by someone, especially a newbie who got geared by a guild, is extremely unfair.

Say what you want, but some people like soloing. I do. I also talk in tells 95% of the time or more because I don't care to have my conversations public.

[Danien]

I personally don't dislike item loot that much, but I would like to play with other people.

[Smedy]

I personally don't dislike item loot that much, but I would like to play with other people.

Agreed, i'll still play but fact is the server will be empty pretty quickly :/

[Rec]

Really? I see 45 yes and 26 no. Seems like this thread supports item loot so far.

It's quite the leap to say that people wouldn't refuse to play on the server in someways means they like item loot. Lets have some courage and put up a poll that isn't worded in a way to save face.

[Dullah]

Item loot only way to go.

[jeffd]

i like item loot, but i also want there to be more than 50 people on t99

leave it out or t99 will be just as dead as this wasteland shithole of a server

[dogbarf]

I can't believe how blue these fagots are.

If you want meaningless pvp with no serious consequences load up counterstrike or any game that takes a modicum of skill. OR JUST STAY ON RED99.

Item loot makes pvp way more fucking exciting. Do people honestly think no one will use items?

Item loot makes this server something more than just R99 with stupid hardcoded teams. If restricting who you can and cannot kill is all you are gonna change, then why even bother.

[Rec]

You're right item loot does make this server something more. It makes it even more dead than r99.

[Kelsar]

I think item loot is a terrible idea

Go blue bra. You already failed at the red box and found out to have a dirty whistle.

You also complained about EXP loss on PvP Death - just go blue...

As far as the server failing because of item loot, look at Guildwars' history (image's server). It did very well until Devnoob's bipolar disorder got the best of him.

[Pudge]

GMs, pls consider the words of those who are actually playing, and have played, emu PvP since the beginning. Please disregard the words of the no-name who doesn't play red but calls others blue, and the guy who thinks removing exp loss on death was a bad decision for r99. Clearly have no concept of what PvP should be.. rather yell as loud as they can on the forums about how badass and RED they are.. pitiable children.

[Tikku82]

SZ was awesome and didnt need item loot. Coin loot only and server is fine. Too many people dislike item loot. Its better to start without it. MAYBE add it later on.

People would just avoid pvp at all costs, when pvp server should encourage for pvp.

-coin loot
-50% pvp xp loss(compared to pve)
-better balanced teams than sz

and we have a winning server.

Item loot from start would just kill the server before it even gets going. losing hundreds of people.

[Kelsar]

GMs, pls consider the words of those who are actually playing, and have played, emu PvP since the beginning. Please disregard the words of the no-name who doesn't play red but calls others blue, and the guy who thinks removing exp loss on death was a bad decision for r99. Clearly have no concept of what PvP should be..

LOL! Pudge sounds like he lost at R99 and is now confirmed mad, sad, and bad.

Let's summarize this entire thread: Everyone who has failed at R99 wants a NEW PvP server that has no PvP consequence for death and no reward.

The GMs already made this server - R99.

[Smedy]

Go blue bra. You already failed at the red box and found out to have a dirty whistle.

You also complained about EXP loss on PvP Death - just go blue...

As far as the server failing because of item loot, look at Guildwars' history (image's server). It did very well until Devnoob's bipolar disorder got the best of him.

If you had any kind of reading comprehension you'd actually read my entire post where i state the fact that if you costumize item loot it might work, you telling me "guildwars" was a classic server?

No it was costum you dumb cunt, now get the fuck out of my forum

[Bazia]

Kelsar was some dumb faggot wizard who got griefed off of red at level 30 after forum questing for months leading up to launch.

Not even deserving of refute posts from heavy hitters like Smedy.

Does getting griefed off at level 30 count as FAILING at Red99?

Kinda sad this is the one time where I'm wondering what nilbog is thinking, item loot has been proven to be the number one quickest population killer of any eq server ever.

[RoguePhantom]

Item loot leads to unbalanced levels of casters and not enough melee.

Melee can't run around naked and still be dangerous in PvP.

Make Item Loot = Signets that you can turn in for items/gear/whatnot.

[Danien]

Item loot leads to unbalanced levels of casters and not enough melee.

Melee can't run around naked and still be dangerous in PvP.

Make Item Loot = Signets that you can turn in for items/gear/whatnot.

The balance between casters and melees is just a symptom of the disease. The main problem is that enabling item loot is the number one deterrent for PvP to occur. Item loot kills server population faster then the nazi's could drop jews.

[SamwiseRed]

Just a quick note, poll is not whether or not u agree with item loot but whether or not you will still play if its enabled. If poll is even60 % accurate them we might be in trouble. I setiously hope the devs put all the custom shit aside and put out a classic hard coded server aka sullon zek. It will fail otherwise

[Kergan]

Just a quick note, poll is not whether or not u agree with item loot but whether or not you will still play if its enabled. If poll is even60 % accurate them we might be in trouble. I setiously hope the devs put all the custom shit aside and put out a classic hard coded server aka sullon zek. It will fail otherwise

From the sounds of it, item loot is in. Or they could be just trolling the shit out of us so we actually try to think of an item loot mechanic that is viable. Either way we should focus on how to make item loot work. You've read enough of my posts on the subject to know I agree with you, but at this point it is a lost cause.

[Kelsar]

If you had any kind of reading comprehension you'd actually read my entire post where i state the fact that if you costumize item loot it might work, you telling me "guildwars" was a classic server?

I don't know what they call it in Sweden, but in America reading comprehension and reading a lengthy novel to completion are two completely different things.

When you combine the fact you mentioned EXP loss on death is a game killer in addition to the fact you think item loot is a bad idea - you should not play on a PvP server.

Oh, wait! That's right, you don't.... So, why are you here again?

[Kelsar]

Kelsar was some dumb faggot wizard who got griefed off of red at level 30 after forum questing for months leading up to launch.

Not even deserving of refute posts from heavy hitters like Smedy.

Does getting griefed off at level 30 count as FAILING at Red99?

Kinda sad this is the one time where I'm wondering what nilbog is thinking, item loot has been proven to be the number one quickest population killer of any eq server ever.

You sound MAD bra! I made massive gains compared to the rest of you scrubs during that short tenure.

P.S. there is this thing called RL! GET ONE!

[Nizzarr]

Team nihilum 99 server doesnt care if item loot is on or not. Manastones will be banked until merge.

Prais China

[Smedy]

I don't know what they call it in Sweden, but in America reading comprehension and reading a lengthy novel to completion are two completely different things.

When you combine the fact you mentioned EXP loss on death is a game killer in addition to the fact you think item loot is a bad idea - you should not play on a PvP server.

Oh, wait! That's right, you don't.... So, why are you here again?

I play here, got a lvl 60 with as good gear as i can get outside nihilum.

Having xp loss on pvp was retarded cause it only forced people to continuously PVE. the PVE part of the game is suppose to be over when you're 60 so you can pvp all the time without having to PVE. The ruleset of having xp death on pvp lead to more pve you dumb fuck.

Only way to have pvp exp death be a good thing is if you get exp ++++ for pvp kill. And you're very quickly entering dangerous territory where people will exploit and its extremely custom

[RoguePhantom]

I play here, got a lvl 60 with as good gear as i can get outside nihilum.

Having xp loss on pvp was retarded cause it only forced people to continuously PVE. the PVE part of the game is suppose to be over when you're 60 so you can pvp all the time without having to PVE. The ruleset of having xp death on pvp lead to more pve you dumb fuck.

Only way to have pvp exp death be a good thing is if you get exp ++++ for pvp kill. And you're very quickly entering dangerous territory where people will exploit and its extremely custom

Smed, yer usually right, but no. XP Loss on PvP was supposed to promote people going out to kill people. If they had coded Teams from the start (as thats the only type of PvP Server that will survive with such low numbers), XP would be easy to come by. However, there are no groups because people are scared of getting ganked by their group.

FFA promotes solo play and fear of EVERYONE. Which leads to no one wanting to take a chance. Subsequently, it is why people jump from ship to ship so damn quick. And why there will ALWAYS be one guild that mass invites on FFA servers, since Pixels > All.

[big mouth chew]

fear is a sign of weakness
start playin like a predator instead of prey

also bring back exp loss on pvp death that shit was TITE

[dogbarf]

Lets copy R99 exactly but put in hardcoded teams! All the shittiness of red with added annoyances of blue such as not being able to take camps from people and stop trains since we both picked the same race!

ITT:
Bluebies who want a fresh copy of R99 because they think theyl "Win" this time around and not nihilium. Get fucking real.

If you can't handle item loot stay on R99, if Item loot kills T99 like you guys are saying then you made the right choice anyways and will be better suited for the merge.

[filthyphil]

I feel that item loot only makes things harder for casuals. We know that raid mobs will be downed, no-drop loot will be had, & the rest of us will suffer for it.

[HippoNipple]

Team nihilum 99 server doesnt care if item loot is on or not. Manastones will be banked until merge.

Prais China

That assumes teams merges with red. What about when red merges with teams and there is still item loot?

[SamwiseRed]

the poll results make me sad.

[Aenor]

I'm not even logging in once to check it out if there's itemloot. I'll genuinely wager $500 that the server will be as dead as red within a month. What a fucking joke and a waste of everyone's time it would be to ruin he server before it even gets started. It takes a special kind of retard to think an itemloot EQ PvP emu will be anything but a farcical disaster and a guaranteed failure. Time to see if the developers are imbeciles.

Confirmed mad.

[Rec]

Wow you used farcical. I haven't heard that since the oj, peter jennings phony phone call.

[Tikku82]

If they must add item loot, we should be able to loot no drop items also. That would make people want to pvp more cuz they could get the loot off pvp instead of some dragons. Make nothing permanent.

[Rec]

People can want to pvp all day, they're still going get owned and have their gear taken from them.

[Kergan]

If they must add item loot, we should be able to loot no drop items also. That would make people want to pvp more cuz they could get the loot off pvp instead of some dragons. Make nothing permanent.

While I think that makes sense from a PVP perspective, it's so exploitable I don't know how you could make it work.

[Chanur]

How is it any more exploitable than item loot? You could still flag epics as not loot able or exclude slots etc.

[Kazinsky]

Can someone explain to me the purpose of looting food and water?

Is that really going to sweeten your kill to loot 20 loaves of bread?

Or stacks of items in general? If it's random, people will just carry around 20 stacks of bat wings and delete them as needed. Maybe once in a blue moon you'll get lucky and loot a stack of peridots or something.

I think half-assed item loot of that type is almost worse than normal item loot. It's just dumb and pointless.

Delete your food and water and go PvP or PvE. See how long it lasts. Then come back and tell me why taking someones food/water is actually worthwhile. Or maybe you should ask a cleric/int caster to delete their rune/rezz/pet reagents and PvP/PvE since apparently casting spells and rezzing people is not important.. lol.

The ability to force other players to leave the area because they have run out of supplies is viable (and it is not at all griefing).

Pretty hilarious everyone says shit like "its the minority that wants item loot" so you guys make a poll like this and it shows you are not only wrong, but you guys cry over and over about how the poll is now flawed. I also enjoy seeing people say item loot is "griefing" and any attempt to modify it is "half-ass".

[Vexenu]

Delete your food and water and go PvP or PvE. See how long it lasts. Then come back and tell me why taking someones food/water is actually worthwhile. Or maybe you should ask a cleric/int caster to delete their rune/rezz/pet reagents and PvP/PvE since apparently casting spells and rezzing people is not important.. lol.

The ability to force other players to leave the area because they have run out of supplies is viable (and it is not at all griefing).

Pretty hilarious everyone says shit like "its the minority that wants item loot" so you guys make a poll like this and it shows you are not only wrong, but you guys cry over and over about how the poll is now flawed. I also enjoy seeing people say item loot is "griefing" and any attempt to modify it is "half-ass".

This is a ridiculous argument. This is sort of like saying, "Go take off your clothes and run around downtown and see how how important clothes are."

Yeah, clothes are important. That doesn't mean I'm going to go mug someone to take their K-mart jeans and Goodwill T-shirt.

Looting food and water in EQ would just be annoying at best, and even then it would require the looter to be able to take ALL of the food and water their victim was carrying, not just a stack. So what, are you going to sit there and loot 10 stacks of food and water one by one? It's just silly in my opinion.

Also, pointing out this poll as being somehow indicative of item loot being popular is equally retarded. For one, this poll is incredibly poorly worded. It doesn't ask if we think item loot is good, it asks if we'd still play if there was item loot.

This is akin to asking, "If you got punched in the face on the way to the state fair, would you still go to the state fair?" If the person answers yes, you then say that they are in favor of being punched in the face. But no, that's probably not true - more likely they just really wanted to go to the state fair and wouldn't let being punched in the face stop them.

[canardvc]

Voted yes cause i'd gladly play with item loot. Though : let it out for population's sake, need to play with more than 50 people.

[Kergan]

How is it any more exploitable than item loot? You could still flag epics as not loot able or exclude slots etc.

People would just launder items through another account/person on another team. Being able to transfer planar/VP loot very easily is an obvious exploit in a system where item loot includes non drop items. At that point you might as well go FV item ruleset and make them trade-able.

[Harllo]

I voted yes because I would play on it for the two weeks it has a population.
Item loot beyond insignias is still an awful idea that could only hurt the population of the server.

[Old_PVP]

Voted yes because...

Item loot is a great mechanic in order to keep people in line. Want to fix the toxic environment of the Red99 community? Well ITEM LOOT will fix your mouth and your outlook one shiny loot at a time. The potential to lose your gear, completely changes the atmosphere of the game world. It's a sobering concept that changes attitudes, makes people rethink their trash talk, and ultimately is essential in creating the pk/anti-pk dynamic that we all love.

ITEM LOOT delivers...

1.) It allows the underdogs of the server the potential to make a difference and affect the top guilds.
2.) It adds an extra edge of excitement and thrill to the game that you would not get otherwise.
3.) There is no pvp adrenaline rush that compares to possibly losing some of your gear.
4.) It cuts back on overpowered twinks.
5.) It allows undergeared, lower level players to band together and employ guerrilla warfare tactics to devastating effect, and actually cause serious consequences and monetary loss to otherwise untouchable people.
6.) Keeps the economy in check, no longer will droppables, rare or common, be ridiculously overpriced.
7.) Bragging rights, and we all know half the fun of pvp is the trash talk, both before and after.

[Vexenu]

Every pro-item loot argument fails to address the most important point: item loot will indisputably result in a server with a much smaller population.

A pro-population ruleset must be the number one priority of Teams for the server to have long-term viability. For this reason alone, regardless of anyone's personal opinion towards it, item loot should be a complete non-starter.

[Vexenu]

First off, by the sounds of it - Item loot is going in regardless, Nilbog wants it.

So as that as the base line, the best way to implement it IMO having lived through the start of EverQuest on Rallos (that had item loot), you are going to end up in the same situation once one zerg is able to start farming their no drops, they get to derisk themselves by joining a large number of people and by acquiring decent gear that cannot be taken. The problem just snowballs in further expansions.


Finally, you have no proof that a server with item loot will "indisputably" result in a smaller population. Would you call the average 40 person population on Red99 (no item loot) for more than a year a success? What I can tell you is that you will lose players if you implement item loot and don't remove no drop tags because you're going to get one team mass recruiting into the biggest zerg any server has ever seen and once they start gearing up all the no drop, every small guild/team will either quit to join the zerg or quit to go back to Star Wars time. Why should we let those bluebies who are derisking the most (by joining a 100 person zerg), derisk further by being the only ones able to acquire the no drop sets.

First of all, your idea to remove no drops is counterproductive, as I just explained in your thread about it.

Secondly, the contention that I "have no proof that item loot will result in a smaller population" being made in a poll thread clearly showing 40% of players would not play on a server with item loot is one of the most moronic things I've ever read on the internet. Why, yes, I do have proof: in the poll at the top of this thread.

Further, I don't believe that item loot is set in stone at this point. Everything is up for debate until nilbog himself says that he's decided on a final ruleset.

[Dullah]

As someone who played on Rallos Zek since the beginning of time (March 1999), I implore you to remove all NO DROP tags if you're going to do item loot, or you simply kick the can further down the road in terms of people creating unbeatable zergs that overwhelm the server and snuff out the population. The first of its kind was Dark Carnival on RZ, then Sabbat, then finally Ascending Dawn. Once you guild up enough people with no drops you incur almost no risk and you can just keep adding on players and gearing them up with no drops, making item loot a very small feature of the server. If you remove no drop tags you can strategically craft it to reduce the strength that someone would get by just creating a huge zerg like Nihilum. You allow those smaller groups/guilds to make substantial gains at the expense of those who have de-risked substantially by joining an enormous guild. Thanks

Should also be able to loot entire bags and as many items as you can fit in your inventory.

Hardcore of gtfo.

[SamwiseRed]

perma death imo

[Kergan]

Dude, you don't seem to get it.

If you remove "NO DROP" tag on an item, it's just like a fire beetle eye or Tranix Crown or plat diamond ring. So when you go to loot a Vermiculated Bracer from plane of fear it would be tradeable just like the 3 items above it, and any other item in the game.

What are you talking about laundering and exploiting no drop tags, it makes no sense are you even thinking?? You remove the NO DROP tag and it's tradeable, reuseable, deletable, just like any other EQ item without a no drop tag why can't you grasp this.

Reading comprehension man. He clearly said we should be able to loot NON DROP ITEMS. Not "let's make non drop items droppable items".

Seriously, before I call someone out I take the 5 seconds to re-read what is being discussed so I don't look like a total toolbox.

In case you missed it:

If they must add item loot, we should be able to loot no drop items also. That would make people want to pvp more cuz they could get the loot off pvp instead of some dragons. Make nothing permanent.

Which was the exact post I quoted in my response you quoted about.

Sheesh...

[Potus]

Item loot is horrible and never has worked. It never will work.

Would not play an item loot server at all.

[Rararboker]

Yeah, I wouldn't play with item loot either. I'll stick with red (and start playing it more) if item loot is a go on team99. Between red and blue, I'll have plenty of entertainment.

[Yagebasto]

Should also be able to loot entire bags and as many items as you can fit in your inventory.

Hardcore of gtfo.

sounds like runescape :)

[Dullah]

EQ darkfall style.

[SamwiseRed]

need light sabers, perma death, and mounts.

shits classic.

[Rellapse35]

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[RoguePhantom]

Item loot leads to Casters dominating. Who would want to roll a Melee when 2 or 3 naked casters can port around ganking everything in sight?