So who wants to see the potential teams?

[Sirken]

we have put a lot of effort into teams so far, and nothing is set in stone. but here's a rough idea of where the staff is at.

PLEASE NOTICE - ALL Teams have a female, ALL Teams have at least 2 Rangers. the Evil team is always more popular, thats why we gave them the ugliest female, as well as two Rangers that will be played by the same person.

All in all, we feel these teams are fair (note, Fair doesnt mean the same thing as Balanced).


so without further delay, i present the teams.






Good Team:
Red Ranger
Pink Ranger
Zordon
Ernie

Neut Team:
Black Ranger
Yellow Ranger
Blue Ranger
Alpha 5

Evil Team:
Green Ranger
White Ranger
Rita
Zedd













Nevermind, wrong game

[Chronoburn]

Quit playing with our emotions. This shit is srs business.

[diplo]

ZORDON ! WE FUCKED UP!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwvZSLtomRo

[SamwiseRed]

ahhh hell no, tommy is pure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! green ranger needs to be on good team!

[Andis]

rofl sirken for prez

[Lowlife]

SZ RULES CONFIRMED EVIL TEAM HAS BETTER ZORDS THO UNBALANXCED

[Combobreaker]

GOOD

&

EVIL

teams both need bards

unless bards are neutral, in which case you'd have to sway them good/bad

[Versch]

Big Ern's team gonna run roughshod.

[SamwiseRed]

ernies juice bar is now a brothel

[Sirken]

SZ RULES CONFIRMED EVIL TEAM HAS BETTER ZORDS THO UNBALANXCED

like i said in OP, we dont care about balance so much as we care about the teams being fair. balance is for WoW and GW2

[Rec]

http://forgifs.com/gallery/d/60068-3/Power_ranger_bulge.gif

[SamwiseRed]

fair and balance are both attributes of wow.

some would argue fair and balance are kinda the same thing.

[Sirken]

some would argue fair and balance are kinda the same thing.

any one who argues that is a moron. Fair means things are equal, Balanced means things are the same. theres a pretty gigantor difference there my good sir


1fair
adjective \ˈfer\
: treating people in a way that does not favor some over others

--

1bal·ance
noun \ˈba-lən(t)s\
: a state in which different things occur in equal or proper amounts or have an equal or proper amount of importance

[Lowlife]

Sooo.. now that chuckles have been had, can we see some real team composition ideas ehh big sirk?

Its Veterans Day. Do it for the Heroes. We PvPed irl for your freedom for a teams server.
http://www.allianceabroad.com/wp-content/uploads/iwomtsurubachi.jpg

[Retti_]

Evil is overpowered.

Would join good to bang pink.

Would hate nuet cus black ranger b tryin to break dance.

[SamwiseRed]

any one who argues that is a moron. Fair means things are equal, Balanced means things are the same. theres a pretty gigantor difference there my good sir


1fair
adjective \ˈfer\
: treating people in a way that does not favor some over others

--

1bal·ance
noun \ˈba-lən(t)s\
: a state in which different things occur in equal or proper amounts or have an equal or proper amount of importance

lol

you give your own definitions then quote the actual definitions which dont match. anyways, i dont wanna argue about it. i assumed when you said fair you were saying making the teams fair, which using your websters definition makes little sense. you are going to base teams around "treating people in a way that does not favor some over others?"

imo, you cannot balance the teams better than verant did years ago. you can be fair tho and when i mean fair i mean all players under the same rules and regulations which is why training should be legal. you cannot enforce this role at all times. its already out of hand on red and without fraps and logs, GL stopping that person.

[Lowlife]

Sirken, cocaine just makes you want to do more cocaine.

[SamwiseRed]

also credit cards are the devil, will never have one. if you dont got money to spend then tough is how i see it. debt is evil. would only go in debt for car or house.

[nilbog]

Credit cards are pretty damn useful when you need to get a hotel room or rental car. That being said, keep a zero balance.

[Tassador]

Pink ranger was hot until she put on to suit and have bigger balls than me.

[SamwiseRed]

thats true, i remember having trouble with rental cars before , not hotels tho.

[Sirken]

words
see, you had to go take something fun, and then ruin it.

again, fair doesn't mean balanced. we are accounting for all kinds of factors, not just "uh oh hey guys, every team MUST have have every class! doesn't matter if things dont make sense, doesn't matter that one team will out number any other team"

as far as training, it won't be allowed, i can assure you of that regardless of which way the teams server goes. we are trying to create a more community friendly PvP server, if anything, id say its safer to expect more of a PNP, as opposed to less.

<3 u

[Lowlife]

pras sirken

nihilum having nervous breakdown over possible loss of classes, i love it

[SamwiseRed]

i just dont see it without hiring a mass amount of gms. i am not trolling, i am being realistic.

like making marijuana illegal lol, good luck enforcing that one.

[Sirken]

i just dont see it without hiring a mass amount of gms. i am not trolling, i am being realistic.

like making marijuana illegal lol, good luck enforcing that one.

heres what you do, make training a perma ban for first offense. problem solved.

[SamwiseRed]

do it please

[heartbrand]

The only way to ever make PVP servers work with their naturally lower pop is to enable boxing. Until that's done [although one can argue it's already been done since people blatantly box all around me] there will always be one large guild that dominates the other guilds since you need lots of bodies to throw @ things to accomplish things, particularly of classes most people don't want to play like clerics. You'll need double digit clerics for most things in Velious for CH chains, but guilds can't even get 3 clerics online at times. Where will these people come from? Inb4 boxing is evil it isn't up for discussion blah blah.

[Vexenu]

No training is probably for the best at this point. As long as it is enforced uniformly across the board with no favorites being played, i.e. one guild getting slaps on the wrist while another gets perma-banned.

PNP also good as long as there are ways to settle disputes with PvP, even between members of the same team.

Sirken, how would you feel about GM-forced guild wars between guilds on the same faction who couldn't abide by the PNP?

[Rec]

If there was no training and perm ban on first offense, the first month of Crushbone would take out 75% of the player base

[heartbrand]

Like, I'm trying to build Red Dawn, but think about it. I'll need a MINIMUM of 7-8 clerics just to do Vindi. And I'm trying to recruit on a server that MAXES out @ 190 players, 50 of them in Nihilum. How am I supposed to ever get that many clerics on top of all the other classes online? It's just not feasible without boxing. Now I could just box like some other people do, but I don't feel like risking peoples chars [although I never really seen people with a brain banned for boxing], and I don't want to break the rules. Shrug, it just doesn't make sense to me. If there was boxing, you could accomplish things with smaller numbers, so you wouldn't have to join the largest guild to progress your character, there would be multiple mid size crews rolling around, tons of pvp and competition, and tons of fun.

[HippoNipple]

any one who argues that is a moron. Fair means things are equal, Balanced means things are the same. theres a pretty gigantor difference there my good sir


1fair
adjective \ˈfer\
: treating people in a way that does not favor some over others

--

1bal·ance
noun \ˈba-lən(t)s\
: a state in which different things occur in equal or proper amounts or have an equal or proper amount of importance


http://www.cultivatingemotionalbalance.org/sites/default/files/rocks_on_balance_0.jpg

Yo sirk dawg, is that balanced or fair?

[HippoNipple]

Credit cards are pretty damn useful when you need to get a hotel room or rental car. That being said, keep a zero balance.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9MZV9_Vpma0/UnUTkuwjIuI/AAAAAAAAAco/FSxMkPk1mDg/s1600/The-more-you-know.png

[heartbrand]

If you don't use credit cards good luck building credit and getting a car loan or a mortgage

[runlvlzero]

<3 U sirk.

[Elderan]

pras sirken

nihilum having nervous breakdown over possible loss of classes, i love it

Lol you have no clue....

We survive because we adapt...

[Sirken]

No training is probably for the best at this point. As long as it is enforced uniformly across the board with no favorites being played, i.e. one guild getting slaps on the wrist while another gets perma-banned. PNP also good as long as there are ways to settle disputes with PvP, even between members of the same team. Sirken, how would you feel about GM-forced guild wars between guilds on the same faction who couldn't abide by the PNP?
i have wanted /guildwar on p99 since long before i was on staff. ill will always fight for that to be fixed

If there was no training and perm ban on first offense, the first month of Crushbone would take out 75% of the player base
not gonna ban players for accidents.

http://www.cultivatingemotionalbalance.org/sites/default/files/rocks_on_balance_0.jpg
Yo sirk dawg, is that balanced or fair?
thats way to far above my pay grade ;)

[big mouth chew]

Like, I'm trying to build Red Dawn, but think about it. I'll need a MINIMUM of 7-8 clerics just to do Vindi. And I'm trying to recruit on a server that MAXES out @ 190 players, 50 of them in Nihilum. How am I supposed to ever get that many clerics on top of all the other classes online? It's just not feasible without boxing. Now I could just box like some other people do, but I don't feel like risking peoples chars [although I never really seen people with a brain banned for boxing], and I don't want to break the rules. Shrug, it just doesn't make sense to me. If there was boxing, you could accomplish things with smaller numbers, so you wouldn't have to join the largest guild to progress your character, there would be multiple mid size crews rolling around, tons of pvp and competition, and tons of fun.

recruit clerics from already established guilds
or
level new clerics from the ground up (i prefer you do this method)
or
be happy killing what you can with the people you got

boxing shouldnt cross your mind

[Sirken]

no RNF here folks, keep it clean

[Lowlife]

Sirk, any luck on getting another twitch roundtable going with everyones schedules? or possible eta on publication of possible team composition ideas from the staff internals?

[Elderan]

no RNF here folks, keep it clean

I still think every class should be allowed on each team.

It solves so many issues now and down the road(merge).

[SamwiseRed]

WWBD

what would brad do

[HippoNipple]

I still think every class should be allowed on each team.

It solves so many issues now and down the road(merge).

The merge is literally the only thing you care about because you want Nihilum to be able to stay together 100%. This is a legit concern and we all get it, but something has to give with teams coming out and a merge being imminent down the road. We aren't going to crap up the teams server with the sole purpose of preserving Nihilums ability to raid Velious after the merger.

Raiding nerds need to get over the fact that not all 50 of their geared friends on the current server will be able to raid together down the road. Once teams are established you have 6-9 months to gear players for the Nihilum 2.0 once merger happens. Yes, you may need to reroll your dwarf cleric to a dark elf cleric. You have the means to PL one in a few days, you have 9 months.

Roleplaying/Lore nerds need to realize that every team needs bards so you may have some players on a team that may not make sense when comparing it to your table top dungeons and dragons game.

Griefing misfits need to realize exp will need to be boosted because the attention span of PvPers is very short and if people can progress faster on blue uninterrupted people won't stick around. If you spend 3 hours leveling and then are interrupted with PvP for 2 hours the exp needs to make up for it, as it does on red99.

Other than that, fuck classes like rangers/druids/sks/paladins/necromancers, teams can do without em.

[Versch]

Gotta have summon corpse.

[Kergan]

The merge is literally the only thing you care about because you want Nihilum to be able to stay together 100%. This is a legit concern and we all get it, but something has to give with teams coming out and a merge being imminent down the road. We aren't going to crap up the teams server with the sole purpose of preserving Nihilums ability to raid Velious after the merger.

Raiding nerds need to get over the fact that not all 50 of their geared friends on the current server will be able to raid together down the road. Once teams are established you have 6-9 months to gear players for the Nihilum 2.0 once merger happens. Yes, you may need to reroll your dwarf cleric to a dark elf cleric. You have the means to PL one in a few days, you have 9 months.

Roleplaying/Lore nerds need to realize that every team needs bards so you may have some players on a team that may not make sense when comparing it to your table top dungeons and dragons game.

Griefing misfits need to realize exp will need to be boosted because the attention span of PvPers is very short and if people can progress faster on blue uninterrupted people won't stick around. If you spend 3 hours leveling and then are interrupted with PvP for 2 hours the exp needs to make up for it, as it does on red99.

Other than that, fuck classes like rangers/druids/sks/paladins/necromancers, teams can do without em.

I'm sure that is a motivation but it is hard to disagree that lack of classes on the different teams played a major role in the imbalance. I think ideally we should try and find a way to get all teams access to all classes. We can tackle the merge issues down the road when it's closer, maybe they offer a limited opportunity to change somehow.

[Elderan]

The merge is literally the only thing you care about because you want Nihilum to be able to stay together 100%. This is a legit concern and we all get it, but something has to give with teams coming out and a merge being imminent down the road. We aren't going to crap up the teams server with the sole purpose of preserving Nihilums ability to raid Velious after the merger.

Raiding nerds need to get over the fact that not all 50 of their geared friends on the current server will be able to raid together down the road. Once teams are established you have 6-9 months to gear players for the Nihilum 2.0 once merger happens. Yes, you may need to reroll your dwarf cleric to a dark elf cleric. You have the means to PL one in a few days, you have 9 months.

Roleplaying/Lore nerds need to realize that every team needs bards so you may have some players on a team that may not make sense when comparing it to your table top dungeons and dragons game.

Griefing misfits need to realize exp will need to be boosted because the attention span of PvPers is very short and if people can progress faster on blue uninterrupted people won't stick around. If you spend 3 hours leveling and then are interrupted with PvP for 2 hours the exp needs to make up for it, as it does on red99.

Other than that, fuck classes like rangers/druids/sks/paladins/necromancers, teams can do without em.

The team setup will not effect us either way. We will have 9 months at least to adjust to any teams announcement before the merge.

Don't worry we have plans for Teams if the merge ever happens. The team makeup will not hurt us in any way.

Now from a personal perspective I still think every team should have access to every class. This just solves so many issues including balance from team to team.

[Lowlife]

Gotta have summon corpse.

VZTZ handed this w/ potions.

[HippoNipple]

I don't see why necromancers/rangers/druids/sks/paladins would make a big difference on a team. Those obstacles are easily overcome. Yes it would suck to not have summon corpse on a team but you are giving up druids/rangers/paladins for this. If your corpse rots the GMs even get it for you on these servers, big deal.

If you have to say a team won't survive without summon corpse and GMs agree that this one spell breaks the game, then yes do something like potions.

As long as all teams have enchanters/wizards/bards/warrior/monk/cleric/rogues/shamans they are good to go.

[Sirken]

Sirk, any luck on getting another twitch roundtable going with everyones schedules? or possible eta on publication of possible team composition ideas from the staff internals?
im not sure how successful some of the upper staff feel the first round table discussion went. my first request was friday night, and it was not met with open arms. also, anyone with Vel access is only working on Velious i think (might be wrong on that). i'll keep trying, but no promises

[Kergan]

I don't see why necromancers/rangers/druids/sks/paladins would make a big difference on a team. Those obstacles are easily overcome. Yes it would suck to not have summon corpse on a team but you are giving up druids/rangers/paladins for this. If your corpse rots the GMs even get it for you on these servers, big deal.

If you have to say a team won't survive without summon corpse and GMs agree that this one spell breaks the game, then yes do something like potions.

As long as all teams have enchanters/wizards/bards/warrior/monk/cleric/rogues/shamans they are good to go.

I'm not trying to flame, but did you play on SZ? Losing out on SKs and necros was a big deal and not just because of summon corpse.

[HippoNipple]

I'm not trying to flame, but did you play on SZ? Losing out on SKs and necros was a big deal and not just because of summon corpse.

No I played on TZ

[Sirken]

just for the record, every team make up we have tossed around (to my knowledge) has included summon corpse abilities on each team.

[HippoNipple]

just for the record, every team make up we have tossed around (to my knowledge) has included summon corpse abilities on each team.

Well if every team has necromancers then there can't be too many classes left out on every team, meaning people can't complain. At that point you are maybe excluding 1 class per team.

[Elderan]

im not sure how successful some of the upper staff feel the first round table discussion went. my first request was friday night, and it was not met with open arms. also, anyone with Vel access is only working on Velious i think (might be wrong on that). i'll keep trying, but no promises

Agreed.. get Velious out first.. then lets hammer out teams.

[Elderan]

just for the record, every team make up we have tossed around (to my knowledge) has included summon corpse abilities on each team.

Thats good considering how important it is.

[Kergan]

im not sure how successful some of the upper staff feel the first round table discussion went. my first request was friday night, and it was not met with open arms. also, anyone with Vel access is only working on Velious i think (might be wrong on that). i'll keep trying, but no promises

That's disappointing but understandable.

I think a couple things that could help spur some good discussion here is if we knew what the general dev consensus was on a few things, or what is completely up in the air.

For example, if it is a 100% lock we're not using a strict classic VZTZ or SZ live ruleset then let us know so we can move on from that debate and focus on other things.

Second, a rough timeline would be helpful. I'm not talking release dates as we know that isn't going to happen. More like:

1. We release Velious
2. T99 opens 6-12 months after Velious release (or if even that is too specific, just say "sometime after Velious").
3. Server will be progression based (or not), no Kunark/Velious from the start or whatever is decided, or if it is still up in the air.
4. R99 merged with T99 6-12 months after T99 release (or at the very least confirm if a merge will be imminent or if that hasn't been decided yet).

I think what is steering people off course a bit here is the debate of SZ classic vs non classic ruleset and if/when a merge should happen. Progression vs non progression has a huge effect on team discussion, mostly if iksars are involved initially or not. If those decisions have been made we can move on from those debates and instead focus on what is still in flux, hopefully giving the developers some quality ideas in the process.

[Elderan]

That's disappointing but understandable.

I think a couple things that could help spur some good discussion here is if we knew what the general dev consensus was on a few things, or what is completely up in the air.

For example, if it is a 100% lock we're not using a strict classic VZTZ or SZ live ruleset then let us know so we can move on from that debate and focus on other things.

Second, a rough timeline would be helpful. I'm not talking release dates as we know that isn't going to happen. More like:

1. We release Velious
2. T99 opens 6-12 months after Velious release (or if even that is too specific, just say "sometime after Velious").
3. Server will be progression based (or not), no Kunark/Velious from the start or whatever is decided, or if it is still up in the air.
4. R99 merged with T99 6-12 months after T99 release (or at the very least confirm if a merge will be imminent or if that hasn't been decided yet).

I think what is steering people off course a bit here is the debate of SZ classic vs non classic ruleset and if/when a merge should happen. Progression vs non progression has a huge effect on team discussion, mostly if iksars are involved initially or not. If those decisions have been made we can move on from those debates and instead focus on what is still in flux, hopefully giving the developers some quality ideas in the process.

These are pretty key questions I agree if we could get nailed down would great.

But honestly I feel even they have no idea the answers to these questions currently.

[Kergan]

These are pretty key questions I agree if we could get nailed down would great.

But honestly I feel even they have no idea the answers to these questions currently.

Even knowing they haven't made a decision is information.

[HippoNipple]

Even knowing they haven't made a decision is information.

They haven't made a decision.

When there is a merger down the road the success of team99 will determine what type of merger it is. At the time of merger the more popular server will absorb the other one, basically determining the rule set of the final pvp server.

Priority goes to Velious over everything but there are different people working on each project. What I believe is holding back teams right now is Alecta getting the pvp mechanics worked out 100%, which he hasn't had much time to work on yet. It is hard to line up which will happen first because the deciding factors are independent of each other.

[Elderan]

They haven't made a decision.

When there is a merger down the road the success of team99 will determine what type of merger it is. At the time of merger the more popular server will absorb the other one, basically determining the rule set of the final pvp server.

Priority goes to Velious over everything but there are different people working on each project. What I believe is holding back teams right now is Alecta getting the pvp mechanics worked out 100%, which he hasn't had much time to work on yet. It is hard to line up which will happen first because the deciding factors are independent of each other.

Before they even start working on teams they need to nail down a ruleset, the teams and what happens if red merges into teams.

This needs to be 100% nailed down and posted before teams work even begins. Since it may effect multiple servers down the road.

[Colgate]

elderan step away from the keyboard

[Lowlife]

Before they even start working on teams they need to nail down a ruleset, the teams and what happens if red merges into teams.

This needs to be 100% nailed down and posted before teams work even begins. Since it may effect multiple servers down the road.

teams 99 and its staff do not revolve around aiding nilly for potential merge complications nor for providing a more beneficial rule set for you, or one that is more to your liking.

[Com_Truise]

WHEN I FOUND OUT LAST YEAR THAT THE YELLOW RANGER WAS KILLED IN A CAR ACCIDENT IN 2001, I POSTED THESE ALL OVER MY NEIGHBOURHOOD:

http://cdn.motinetwork.net/demotivationalposters.net/image/demotivational-poster/0901/thuy-trang-yellow-ranger-yellow-ranger-thuy-trang-doris-wit-demotivational-poster-1230922297.jpg

no joke.

[Lowlife]

i cast summon corpse on her body

[HippoNipple]

Before they even start working on teams they need to nail down a ruleset, the teams and what happens if red merges into teams.

This needs to be 100% nailed down and posted before teams work even begins. Since it may effect multiple servers down the road.

Well the rule set will obviously be nailed down before the server opens..... What I don't think will be determined is if teams will absorb red99 or vice versa. That should 100% be determined by the popularity/population of the two servers near merge time.

Either way Nihilum won't skip a beat. Just prepare for red99 to merge with teams and you will be okay no matter what happens.

[HippoNipple]

Com Truise change that damn gif, fuck.

[Elderan]

teams 99 and its staff do not revolve around aiding nilly for potential merge complications nor for providing a more beneficial rule set for you, or one that is more to your liking.

Before you design anything that is long term as this you need a set design plan. It is extremely important so you can examine the short and long term based off of your design.

I do large software project management for a living so I kind of know what I am talking about.

[Elderan]

Well the rule set will obviously be nailed down before the server opens..... What I don't think will be determined is if teams will absorb red99 or vice versa. That should 100% be determined by the popularity/population of the two servers near merge time.

Either way Nihilum won't skip a beat. Just prepare for red99 to merge with teams and you will be okay no matter what happens.

I do agree, there is no way to tell right off if Teams will merge into Red or Red into teams. This is something that can be determined later on based on population and feedback.

However you need a design for each possible case. Such as if Red merges into Teams this is how we are going to do it, and if Teams merged into Red this is how we will do it.

[HeisChuck]

this eldermoran guy is beyond sick

[Barladore]

this eldermoran guy is beyond sick

[jestingoff02]

WTF are you talking about? i want my team to be all Female dark elfs in hide pants

[Zade]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lg80miGH2i1qa5z1ro1_400.gif

[Sirken]

That's disappointing but understandable.

I think a couple things that could help spur some good discussion here is if we knew what the general dev consensus was on a few things, or what is completely up in the air.

For example, if it is a 100% lock we're not using a strict classic VZTZ or SZ live ruleset then let us know so we can move on from that debate and focus on other things.

Second, a rough timeline would be helpful. I'm not talking release dates as we know that isn't going to happen. More like:

1. We release Velious
2. T99 opens 6-12 months after Velious release (or if even that is too specific, just say "sometime after Velious").
3. Server will be progression based (or not), no Kunark/Velious from the start or whatever is decided, or if it is still up in the air.
4. R99 merged with T99 6-12 months after T99 release (or at the very least confirm if a merge will be imminent or if that hasn't been decided yet).

I think what is steering people off course a bit here is the debate of SZ classic vs non classic ruleset and if/when a merge should happen. Progression vs non progression has a huge effect on team discussion, mostly if iksars are involved initially or not. If those decisions have been made we can move on from those debates and instead focus on what is still in flux, hopefully giving the developers some quality ideas in the process.

we are pretty much agreed that we wont be copying any one particular live servers rule set.

1. Velious
2. T99 opens "sometime after velious"
3. i think rogean said probably very accelerated timeline on the live stream
4. we havent decided which server will be merged into which server, only that we wont be running 3 servers long term.

one thing most of the staff have differing ideas on is how best to do item loot, because we can do it anyway we want. live style, bagged items, random items, non lore only, etc etc and just about anything any of you can imagine. (we will not allow the looting of primary, offhand, range, or ammo slots)

[Lowlife]

Clearly, one must be able to loot Manastones and AoNs etc. Design it around those future tears.

Maybe make a poll regarding item look Sirk?

[Vexenu]

Item loot is a terrible idea. I predict a poll would reveal it's about as popular as soft-coded teams.

[Lowlife]

Item loot is a terrible idea. I predict a poll would reveal it's about as popular as soft-coded teams.

psst, i agree. I conducted a poll a few weeks ago about it and it was incredibly unpopular.

[Sirken]

Item loot is a terrible idea. I predict a poll would reveal it's about as popular as soft-coded teams.

ive seen it as a player and a staff member. as a player i liked it, but as a staff member i saw it kill pop numbers.

that said, i believe it was Nilbog who said on the live stream that he wants to try it, for science.

maybe after 6-7 when we merge we'll decided to dump it. but for now T99 will be item loot, in the name of science.

[Vexenu]

but for now T99 will be item loot, in the name of science.

http://horrorfanzine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/troll-2-02.jpg

[SamwiseRed]

why would t99 be item loot and not red99? da fuck

you want to attract blue players with t99

then you add item loot.

a little confused and sad you guys are gonna make a Frankenstein server again :(

[Millburn]

maybe after 6-7 when we merge we'll decided to dump it. but for now T99 will be item loot, in the name of science.

Well that certainly killed my erection.

[Lowlife]

people couldn't handle 5% xp and like 2pp 1g 2cp loss

[Sirken]

less QQ

we didnt poll it because on the live stream there were certain things that we said would simply be in because one or more staff members wanted those things to be in, in the name of science.

and sorry, but Nilbogs opinion > all players

[SamwiseRed]

blue players about to "peace *****" when they see item loot. at least i wont have to gear myself but pop gonna be a disaster.

[Lowlife]

less QQ

we didnt poll it because on the live stream there were certain things that we said would simply be in because one or more staff members wanted those things to be in, in the name of science.

and sorry, but Nilbogs opinion > all players

fine, fine. item loot.

so are you guys leaning toward a city based, race based, or religious based team setup from what you've spoke of w/ other staff members?

[Millburn]

less QQ

we didnt poll it because on the live stream there were certain things that we said would simply be in because one or more staff members wanted those things to be in, in the name of science.

and sorry, but Nilbogs opinion > all players

You already trolled me once with this thread

Fool me once, shame on you.

Fool me twice, shame on me.

I ain't falling for this shit.

[Sirken]

fine, fine. item loot.

so are you guys leaning toward a city based, race based, or religious based team setup from what you've spoke of w/ other staff members?

yes, we are leaning towards a city based, race based, or religious based team setup, from what we've spoken of w/ other staff members

:D

[Lowlife]

D;

[Thelemonsong]

WOOOOO Item loot! Awesome! Nothing makes a game seem more real. The server will smell of fear.

[SamwiseRed]

not sure how to ask this without sounding like an ass but i mean no disrespect.

is this teams server for the staff members or the hundreds of players wanting teams?

the reason i ask is that noone has suggested item loot yet it sounds like its already confirmed in the name of science? i hope the players opinions drive the ruleset of this server more than a handful of people who may not even play on it. we are greatful for staff but its different when you have nothing to lose/gain on it.

again its not meant to sound ungreatful or w/e. its just, im not getting a good vibe from all this. and no need to tell me to play it or shut up, i already realize this.

[Lowlife]

WOOOOO Item loot! Awesome! Nothing makes a game seem more real. The server will smell of fear.

just think of all the rawhide people like Mrbig will be able to vendor, blubies fleeing for their lives to the EZ server like its a refugee camp.

[Aenor]

Item loot so ballin. Rep Yo City still in the game, ya'll.

[SamwiseRed]

if item loot i hope to see it on red too. and take that bagging bullshit out.

[Aenor]

Samwise... Nilbog is more hardcore than you. And he doesn't care if you play or not. The previously stated goal was to retain population. Item loot is known to harm retention. Obviously, they're waving their hands in the air.

[Sirken]

not sure how to ask this without sounding like an ass but i mean no disrespect.

is this teams server for the staff members or the hundreds of players wanting teams?

the reason i ask is that noone has suggested item loot yet it sounds like its already confirmed in the name of science? i hope the players opinions drive the ruleset of this server more than a handful of people who may not even play.

again its not meant to sound ungreatful or w/e. its just, im not getting a good vibe from all this. and no need to tell me to play it or shut up, i already realize this.

thank you for the disclaimer :p

honestly, its for both, just like the entire project. at the end of the day, Nilbog is the project founder, and together with Rogean they are the project managers. if they want to try something to experience it first hand, then they have a right to do so. if players dont want to play on a server because of how the staff set it up, then thats the players' choice and the staff will have to deal with the consequences of their actions.

Also, let me say some of the staff have indeed seen the positives and negatives of item loot, and i feel that we as a staff can implement a system that will be different from live insofar as it will still be fun, but may not be as rageinducingflipthetableoverandquitEQforever, as some people may remember it. we feel we can come up with a very entertaing, and very rewarding system, while minimizing a lot of the negative stigma attached to it. and so, in the name of science, it will be done.

[SamwiseRed]

with that said, i would love to have a trial on item loot on red right about now. i got a serious case of altitis and am having trouble gearing them all. item loot would solve alot of my problems. ty.

[Greegon]

Quit playing with our emotions. This shit is srs business.

hate u sirk

HATEUDAD

[Sirken]

with that said, i would love to have a trial on item loot on red right about now. i got a serious case of altitis and am having trouble gearing them all. item loot would solve alot of my problems. ty.

well!

thats why i asked for the community to start brain storming ideas of custom item loot systems, and said that we can do anything you can imagine, and gave examples.

think outside the box.

we all know live style item loot is bad for pop, so lets think of a way to do it thats good for the pop! because at the end of the day it can be a lot of fun!

[SamwiseRed]

there are a few problems we will need to fix, one will be to have more no drop gear available. Sol ro armor would be a good start. make that shit no drop so people can pvp with some clothes on but not be that OP. making kunark armor (Cobalt, ect) no drop would be awesome and at the same time KILL the RMT shit going on.

remove bagging, shit was dumb.

one item per kill if in a 4 level range. I suggest making primary/secondary/range unlootable ofc.

[SamwiseRed]

damn im getting kinda excited about item loot now. shits gonna be much much more griefy than training could ever be :D

[tomato2]

Quit playing with our emotions. This shit is srs business.

these kids are so invested its hilarious. I feel so bad for them

[Castigate]

As a bluebie I'm all for item loot.

Since you're looking for ideas on how to do it, would it be possible for the player to select maybe 5-10 of their item slots that could be selected from? Bags could count as 1 slot and empty slots on death could force a random selection of something else.

Alternately would it be possible to have certain slots decided by the player be safe? I feel like a big part of the turn off is the possibility that someones favorite pixel might not be in a slot that's automatically protected, especially if they aren't melee.

[Nune]

Oh, good, item loot.


See ya on the 200 max pop server in 6 months brews

[Millburn]

I liked the Asherons call version of item drop. Where you had a certain amount of items that would drop from your body, seemingly at random. Really though the items you dropped on death were the ones with the highest vendor value.

This makes sense to me for T99 because it still allows for impact and adds value to pvp without the consequences of someone cherry picking your items. In a sense it makes the whole process as neutral as possible without sacrificing much.

To use an example, one may want to carry a couple stacks of gems with them so that their precious FBSS doesn't drop.

[SamwiseRed]

I liked the Asherons call version of item drop. Where you had a certain amount of items that would drop from your body, seemingly at random. Really though the items you dropped on death were the ones with the highest vendor value.

This makes sense to me for T99 because it still allows for impact and adds value to pvp without the consequences of someone cherry picking your items. In a sense it makes the whole process as neutral as possible without sacrificing much.

To use an example, one may want to carry a couple stacks of gems with them so that their precious FBSS doesn't drop.

interesting. im guessing no stack of gems would out cost a fungi tho right? but maybe save your fbss like u said. very interesting.

[Sirken]

I liked the Asherons call version of item drop. Where you had a certain amount of items that would drop from your body, seemingly at random. Really though the items you dropped on death were the ones with the highest vendor value.

This makes sense to me for T99 because it still allows for impact and adds value to pvp without the consequences of someone cherry picking your items. In a sense it makes the whole process as neutral as possible without sacrificing much.

To use an example, one may want to carry a couple stacks of gems with them so that their precious FBSS doesn't drop.

some of the staff have indeed suggested a random feature for item loot, but people could then pad their odds by unstacking useless items in unused slots to lessen the chance of losing great gear.

but i like the out of the box thinking, thats the right direction. nobody wants the old item loot from live. i think a random feature, or a harder limit on what can be picked from would be nice.

[Kergan]

Why do people keep bringing up item loot? It's like they think at some point in time someone will actually loot something of value.

All it does is give people incentive to leave their good stuff in the bank/bagged watering down PVP, or to avoid PVP all together (especially dying). It also furthers the advantage the top 5% have as most of the top gear is non drop. Good luck taking out someone VP geared wearing shin gauntlets and leather.

Stop beating this dead horse, item loot does not add anything and detracts completely from PVP gameplay. Item loot only works in games like UO where even valuable items are fairly easy to replace, not a game like EQ that is literally 100% about items for character progression.

[Millburn]

It would all revolve around the vendor price of the item. The number of items you're allowed to loot off someone is what would need to be decided on. You could make that one, where your most vendor valuable item drops, so you know exactly what you'll drop on death. Or that number could be 5, where a series of items drop which start at the highest value and work down, though I think there would be an interesting interplay if you made LOOTABLE items 1 and dropped items 3-5. That way there's still quite a risk of having enough items of value on you to saturate out your drop pool, which again makes it more desirable to kill people for valuable items.

[SamwiseRed]

item will loot will allow us to hurt our enemy where it really hurts. will probably send them straight to char deletion. i was lookin forward to a roleplaying dark vs light lord of the rings trilogy kinda pvp server but now i see the light.

I will grief. Your fungi is mine. QQ

[Lowlife]

Why do people keep bringing up item loot? It's like they think at some point in time someone will actually loot something of value.

All it does is give people incentive to leave their good stuff in the bank/bagged watering down PVP, or to avoid PVP all together (especially dying). It also furthers the advantage the top 5% have as most of the top gear is non drop. Good luck taking out someone VP geared wearing shin gauntlets and leather.

Stop beating this dead horse, item loot does not add anything and detracts completely from PVP gameplay. Item loot only works in games like UO where even valuable items are fairly easy to replace, not a game like EQ that is literally 100% about items for character progression.

nilbog wants it.

[Sirken]

Why do people keep bringing up item loot? It's like they think at some point in time someone will actually loot something of value.

All it does is give people incentive to leave their good stuff in the bank/bagged watering down PVP, or to avoid PVP all together (especially dying). It also furthers the advantage the top 5% have as most of the top gear is non drop. Good luck taking out someone VP geared wearing shin gauntlets and leather.

Stop beating this dead horse, item loot does not add anything and detracts completely from PVP gameplay. Item loot only works in games like UO where even valuable items are fairly easy to replace, not a game like EQ that is literally 100% about items for character progression.

item loot is in. so stop crying about a system that wont exist here on p99, and start brain storming a way to make it fun.

just a reminder, after the merge, theres no rule that says it has to be all one server or the other, if feedback tells us some stuff about R99 is great and some stuff about T99 is great, then we will just cherry pick the features. IE: its very possible to have a post merge server with teams but not item loot.



because... science

[Kergan]

some of the staff have indeed suggested a random feature for item loot, but people could then pad their odds by unstacking useless items in unused slots to lessen the chance of losing great gear.

but i like the out of the box thinking, thats the right direction. nobody wants the old item loot from live. i think a random feature, or a harder limit on what can be picked from would be nice.

Incentivizing PVP victory without completely demoralizing people who are defeated is a far better route in my opinion. A token system with meaningful rewards would be a start. No matter how you create a system, people will find a way to hide their gear for 90% of their playing experience. Nobody wants to lose a cloak of flames, manastone, etc, let alone something of medium value.

The PVP experience shouldn't have an adverse effect on the PVE. No matter how you slice it, EQ is a PVE game at the center.

That being said, if there were to be item loot I would have something as follows...

When you kill someone you get a token. X tokens buys essentially a PVP copy of an item. Lets say a JBB...something very useful and valuable but not necessarily game breaking. Maybe call it "Jaundiced Bone Bracer of Zek". If someone is killed the items that show up as lootable are only the "of Zek" items, which are all non trade-able.

This would keep item loot in the realm of PVP completely, items exchanged during PVP encounters can only be earned from PVP encounters.

[Lowlife]

token/point system ftw

[Millburn]

Just to summarize my thoughts on the Asheron's Call style item loot.

DROPPED Items : 1-5
LOOTABLE Items: 1

What items drop?: First one to five items with the highest VENDOR SELL VALUE.

Reason?: Allows for people to still use powerful items but at a cost of increasing their passive coin drop, also at the risk of slipping up and dropping actual items. This keeps PVP impactful and fruitful.

WARNING - Below example does not use proper item values, made up for science!
Example: Millburn has on his body three powerful items he has looted along his adventures which he does not want to lose. These items are a Fungi, a FBSS, and a Sweet ass Broom of Trilon.

Fungi sells to vendor for 400pp
FBSS sells to vendor for 300pp
Broom of Trilon sells to vendor for 500pp

To make sure he doesn't drop any of these items, Millburn always carries around 3 stacks of gems with him, each stack sells to a vendor for at least 501pp so that when he dies, the three items up for grabs from his corpse are these stacks of gems.

[SamwiseRed]

item loot gonna turn me back to the old me.

I will grief.

[Kergan]

Just to summarize my thoughts on the Asheron's Call style item loot.

DROPPED Items : 1-5
LOOTABLE Items: 1

What items drop?: First one to five items with the highest VENDOR SELL VALUE.

Reason?: Allows for people to still use powerful items but at a cost of increasing their passive coin drop, also at the risk of slipping up and dropping actual items. This keeps PVP impactful and fruitful.

WARNING - Below example does not use proper item values, made up for science!
Example: Millburn has on his body three powerful items he has looted along his adventures which he does not want to lose. These items are a Fungi, a FBSS, and a Sweet ass Broom of Trilon.

Fungi sells to vendor for 400pp
FBSS sells to vendor for 300pp
Broom of Trilon sells to vendor for 500pp

To make sure he doesn't drop any of these items, Millburn always carries around 3 stacks of gems with him, each stack sells to a vendor for at least 501pp so that when he dies, the three items up for grabs from his corpse are these stacks of gems.

That isn't really item loot then. It's just people carrying around cash in the form of gems to buy themselves out of losing items. No actual "items" change hands and you're essentially building a system with the intention of it being exploited.

[Lowlife]

Just to summarize my thoughts on the Asheron's Call style item loot.

DROPPED Items : 1-5
LOOTABLE Items: 1

What items drop?: First one to five items with the highest VENDOR SELL VALUE.

Reason?: Allows for people to still use powerful items but at a cost of increasing their passive coin drop, also at the risk of slipping up and dropping actual items. This keeps PVP impactful and fruitful.

WARNING - Below example does not use proper item values, made up for science!
Example: Millburn has on his body three powerful items he has looted along his adventures which he does not want to lose. These items are a Fungi, a FBSS, and a Sweet ass Broom of Trilon.

Fungi sells to vendor for 400pp
FBSS sells to vendor for 300pp
Broom of Trilon sells to vendor for 500pp

To make sure he doesn't drop any of these items, Millburn always carries around 3 stacks of gems with him, each stack sells to a vendor for at least 501pp so that when he dies, the three items up for grabs from his corpse are these stacks of gems.

ooh the Darktide system, go on..

[Millburn]

That isn't really item loot then. It's just people carrying around cash in the form of gems to buy themselves out of losing items. No actual "items" change hands and you're essentially building a system with the intention of it being exploited.

That's exactly the point though.

You're allowing people to still use powerful items but at the cost of being worth more money on each death. It also still allows for you to fuck up and forget to update your coin items and drop something you don't want to drop.

It makes sense.

[Lowlife]

I like it. Darktide was gangsta.

Now implement some DaOC shit and we're onto the perfect game...

[Kergan]

That's exactly the point though.

You're allowing people to still use powerful items but at the cost of being worth more money on each death. It also still allows for you to fuck up and forget to update your coin items and drop something you don't want to drop.

It makes sense.

Why not simplify the whole process, including the coding of it to buying a 1 charge potion that gives you an undispellable/removable buff that persists through death and makes it so you don't drop items at the cost of X platinum then? Maybe make it purchasable with tokens from PVP kills only?

[Lowlife]

Because the Millburn/Darktide system doesn't gimp melees and you still have the potential to loot a fungi

[Kergan]

Because the Millburn system doesn't gimp melees and you still have the potential to loot a fungi

Except that melees still do not have the option to PVP ungeared like casters, so you're adding a potentially large money sink to melees which are already more expensive to gear.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with his system, but I think if you boil it down to what it is, you're buying yourself out of getting items looted. Just simplify the whole process.

Maybe make a potion/charged item that is class specific and melees pay less?

[Vexenu]

Item loot = literally half the server rolls Druids and Wizards and port around naked looking for easy ganks. The other half of the server zone plugs instantly when PvP that isn't overwhelmingly in their favor goes down. Server is more dead than Red within months.

To be blunt, "for science" is a stupid fucking attitude. I get that it's nilbog's box to play with, but that doesn't make it any less stupid. It's like if Wal-Mart ran a special where half the customers got their items for free and the other half got stabbed in the face by the cashier. Who the fuck is gonna shop there?

If nilbog wants a Teams server with item loot, that's his prerogative, but any type of item loot is going to turn away a ton of potential players right off the bat. The server would only reach a fraction of its potential. It seems very short-sighted to go to the trouble of making a new server only to cripple it with item loot, which is one of the most universally unpopular features in EQ. There is a reason that item loot debuted on RZ but was never implemented on the later PvP servers. It's just about the worst feature possible in a game that is all about acquiring gear.

Imagine if one of your items was randomly deleted each time you died in PvE? Would anyone clamor to play on that ruleset? Of course not. It would be fucking retarded.

And it's no less stupid to lose items in PvP. All it does is encourage extremely lame tactics and running away. Item loot turns a PvP server into a gank and run server.

[SamwiseRed]

guess i am coming to the realization there will never be another sz server :( this makes me sad but fuck it man. shit sucks but at least well have a new box. i am more excited about item loot than teams now since teams will probably be a frankstein shit fest in the name of science.

all of your manastone and fungi will belong to me.

[Lowlife]

Item loot = literally half the server rolls Druids and Wizards and port around naked looking for easy ganks. The other half of the server zone plugs instantly when PvP that isn't overwhelmingly in their favor goes down. Server is more dead than Red within months.

To be blunt, "for science" is a stupid fucking attitude. I get that it's nilbog's box to play with, but that doesn't make it any less stupid. It's like if Wal-Mart ran a special where half the customers got their items for free and the other half got stabbed in the face by the cashier. Who the fuck is gonna shop there?

If nilbog wants a Teams server with item loot, that's his prerogative, but any type of item loot is going to turn away a ton of potential players right off the bat. The server would only reach a fraction of its potential. It seems very short-sighted to go to the trouble of making a new server only to cripple it with item loot, which is one of the most universally unpopular features in EQ. There is a reason that item loot debuted on RZ but was never implemented on the later PvP servers. It's just about the worst feature possible in a game that is all about acquiring gear.

Imagine if one of your items was randomly deleted each time you died in PvE? Would anyone clamor to play on that ruleset? Of course not. It would be fucking retarded.

And it's no less stupid to lose items in PvP. All it does is encourage extremely lame tactics and running away. Item loot turns a PvP server into a gank and run server.

Truth.

[SamwiseRed]

since item loot was added without a poll or mentioning to players, i am pretty sure teams server gonna be silly and possibly immerse breaking. at this point im expecting gnome beastlords teaming up with vah shir zerkers. embrace it for its ugliness, at least well have a new box to play on.

RIP The Dream of a Emu Sullon Zek.

[Kergan]

Vex, apparently the choice is made. You can see the early results of the poll that people are clearly split on the issue. While I agree with you that item loot = bad, Sirken has spoken.

At this point all we can do is try to help put an enjoyable system in place. And if item loot sucks, Sirken pretty much stated they won't pick that feature for a merged PVP server.

[thugcruncher]

http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/misc/power%20rangers%20fuck.gif

[SamwiseRed]

i dont like u using my gif ^

[Sirken]

http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/misc/power%20rangers%20fuck.gif

so youre saying the green ranger team is OP? ill get to work on that! :P


Samwise, i feel the same way about Vallon, and it breaks my pixelated heart

[SamwiseRed]

if vallon was HARD coded id hit it.

[Lowlife]

suggestion from blue forums

One of the most obnoxious parts of red is all the morons who think that because they can kill noobs in Unrest with a fungi, cloak of flames, and a ragebringer/RFS they are some sort of Elfquest badasses.

IMO every item should have a 'max-lootable-level' property and if your character dies in PVP under that level, your item can be looted. An easy way to set max lootable would be any item from a mob = mob_level-15. So fungi tunics would be lootable off twinks below level 41, Cloak of Flames below 40, RFS below 35, Epic below 50, etc.

[Fawqueue]

Just restrict item loot to non-equipped gear. It'd still be annoying to lose some SoW pots or a fishbone earring, but it wouldn't diminish your ability to PvP/PvE as long as your core gear is intact and safe. Without the fear of losing those hard earned items people will be more inclined to stick around and fight than panic and avoid dying at all costs.

[socialist]

No itemloot. Shit's retarded.

[Noselacri]

item loot is in. so stop crying


because... science

Then good luck, I'm not touching this crap with a ten foot pole. Server will last a month. What a waste of effort for everyone involved. I'm not even gonna bother logging in once to have a look.

[Dullah]

item loot so good. Can't wait.

[Fawqueue]

I'm curious what the people who played at a high level with item loot really feel about it. I never got into the PvP side of EQ back on live, the closest being a toon I made on RZ to mess around with while The Tribunal was down. The highest I made it was level 12, but even up until that point every encountered pretty much consisted of people bagging like their working at Safeway or smashing that gate hotkey. A few times my buddy and I really thought we had someone pinned down in Kelethin, but they'd always jump over the edge and fall to their death rather than lose a piece of banded.

In summary: Full-on item loot lead to an incredibly boring PvP experience even when you did it for a few nights at a completely lowbie level. I can't imagine what it was like when it started to count. Just curious if you guys who actually played it out began to see a change, or if it was always lame.

[Noselacri]

I'm curious what the people who played at a high level with item loot really feel about it. I never got into the PvP side of EQ back on live, the closest being a toon I made on RZ to mess around with while The Tribunal was down. The highest I made it was level 12, but even up until that point every encountered pretty much consisted of people bagging like their working at Safeway or smashing that gate hotkey. A few times my buddy and I really thought we had someone pinned down in Kelethin, but they'd always jump over the edge and fall to their death rather than lose a piece of banded.

In summary: Full-on item loot lead to an incredibly boring PvP experience even when you did it for a few nights at a completely lowbie level. I can't imagine what it was like when it started to count. Just curious if you guys who actually played it out began to see a change, or if it was always lame.

On Rallos, the consequence of itemloot was that many people refused to PvP, and the rest PvPed naked on druids and wizards or bagged their gear the instant they got attacked instead of trying to fight back, choosing to die without losing anything rather than fight and risk losing an item they might have worked for weeks to get. Almost everybody was hesitant to PvP "properly" until no-drop gear became widely available. Itemloot has always been violently anti-PvP, and anyone who thinks it encourages PvP or makes for more exciting fights is an idiot who has never tried it.

There's a reason only one server had itemloot and later removed it, and no noteworthy MMORPG has ever touched it with a ten foot pole since. There's a reason RZ was the PvP server known for its huge anti-PK movement that like half the server adhered to. Itemloot worked back in the UO days because that game's itemization was completely different and the gameplay didn't revolve 100% around the acquisition of items that you needed in order to play the game at all. That was an entirely different game where losing your gear didn't make most people feel strongly compelled to quit playing. It has always been a complete disaster on EQ, both on live and on the emus that have tried to employ it since.

If T99 has itemloot, it is 100% guaranteed to be a dead server after a month. It's not even up to discussion, it's a fact that nobody has ever presented any kind of reasonable argument against. Polls will be skewed because the people who use these forums are disproportionally of the fucktard forum warrior orientation who think praising itemloot makes them look brave and hardcore, the kind of mongoloids who have been leaving a trail of shit all the way from VZTZ (which, incidentally, exploded in popularity when they got rid of itemloot, turning it from a server with like 50 players into one with hundreds.)

[HippoNipple]

I like the idea of being able to loot one item that the player was not wearing. So all gear on the player is safe but everything in inventory/bags that is not no drop is up for grabs.

This could make it risky for people to bring tons of gear to switch out all the time. It would also make it so players could not buy gems to keep all their platinum safe when leveling. Ingredients for casting spells wouldn't be safe. If you had a manastone for instance, you would actually have to have to equip it to keep it safe, therefore sacrificing whatever else you had in primary/secondary unless it was a no drop.

[HippoNipple]

I think this would also make raiding a lot more fun. Right now Nihilum dominates the raids and Azrael is scared to jump them because of tough corpse runs but if they could go in and possibly gank some good raid gear they would join in. Getting the tough raid gear would be a bigger risk.

Once Nihilum takes the raiding to 6 am again there isn't much the opposition could do...but even having a group of 3-4 guys it would be fun to try to ambush a raid for a loot or two.

[Combobreaker]

On Rallos, the consequence of itemloot was that many people refused to PvP, and the rest PvPed naked on druids and wizards or bagged their gear the instant they got attacked instead of trying to fight back, choosing to die without losing anything rather than fight and risk losing an item they might have worked for weeks to get. Almost everybody was hesitant to PvP "properly" until no-drop gear became widely available. Itemloot has always been violently anti-PvP, and anyone who thinks it encourages PvP or makes for more exciting fights is an idiot who has never tried it.

There's a reason only one server had itemloot and later removed it, and no noteworthy MMORPG has ever touched it with a ten foot pole since. It worked back in the UO days because the itemization was completely different and the gameplay didn't revolve 100% around the acquisition of items that you needed in order to play the game at all. That was an entirely different game where losing your gear didn't make most people feel strongly compelled to quit playing.

If T99 has itemloot, it is 100% guaranteed to be a dead server after a month. It's not even up to discussion, it's a fact that nobody has ever presented any kind of reasonable argument against. Polls will be skewed because the people who use these forums are disproportionally of the fucktard forum warrior orientation who think praising itemloot makes them look brave and hardcore, the kind of mongoloids who have been leaving a trail of shit all the way from VZ/TZ (which, incidentally, exploded in popularity when they got rid of itemloot, turning it from a server with like 50 players into one with hundreds.)

Nilbog 4 PRESIDENT of ITEM LOOT 2014

[Technique]

item loot is in. so stop crying about a system that wont exist here on p99, and start brain storming a way to make it fun.The only way to achieve that in a game like EQ is to discard the concept of zero-sum item loot.

One item per kill, selectable only from the set of droppable items equipped by the victim at the time of death and wearable by the killer's race/class/deity. Upon looting, generate a NODROP, NORENT copy of the chosen item for the killer, with the additional condition that it disappears on death (preventing players from circumventing the NORENT property by saving the item on a corpse).

The original item must also be flagged in some fashion so that it can't be "looted" more than once, in order to make it impossible to farm several copies of desirable items by repeatedly killing the owner of the originals.

Of course these mechanics would require special case code and DB modification that might not be feasible, or even possible, given how rigid EQEmu is.

[HippoNipple]

I get what everyone is saying about RZ item loot rules, but that was always my favorite server. Your reputation really did follow you. There would potentially be pk and anti pk guilds. Guilds with actual personality and values driven by play style and fear. It could be too much but pushing the envelope a little may also be what this payer base needs. Obviously the current environment isn't enough to punish players for their behavior and reputation.

The downside is that the players on top truly dominate the server 10x more than the current rules. Players that farm good items will get fed up while raiders roam around with much less risk.

[Retti_]

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/slowman41/n1b782.gif

[HippoNipple]

The only way to achieve that in a game like EQ is to discard the concept of zero-sum item loot.

One item per kill, selectable only from the set of droppable items equipped by the victim at the time of death and wearable by the killer's race/class/deity. Upon looting, generate a NODROP, NORENT copy of the chosen item for the killer, with the additional condition that it disappears on death (preventing players from circumventing the NORENT property by saving the item on a corpse).

The original item must also be flagged in some fashion so that it can be "looted" only once, in order to make it impossible to farm several copies of desirable items by repeatedly killing the owner of the originals.

Of course these mechanics would require special case code and DB modification that might not be feasible, or even possible, given how rigid EQEmu is.

That is all reward with no consequence to the player dying. You would literally have raiders from a guild killing each other before a raid to duplicate items. It would take away from any risk. I think looting items the players are wearing is too much for this player base. I'm pretty set on being able to loot 1 item from inventory/bags that are not no drop and I can't really see any downside to this.

[Technique]

You would literally have raiders from a guild killing each other before a raid to duplicate items.Not possible, it's a teams server, remember?

Although I agree there'd be no real consequence for the victim as far as the item loot aspect of death goes. But I see no other way to allow for it and still meet sirken's requirement of making it "fun".

[Fawqueue]

On Rallos, the consequence of itemloot was that many people refused to PvP, and the rest PvPed naked on druids and wizards or bagged their gear the instant they got attacked instead of trying to fight back, choosing to die without losing anything rather than fight and risk losing an item they might have worked for weeks to get. Almost everybody was hesitant to PvP "properly" until no-drop gear became widely available. Itemloot has always been violently anti-PvP, and anyone who thinks it encourages PvP or makes for more exciting fights is an idiot who has never tried it.

There's a reason only one server had itemloot and later removed it, and no noteworthy MMORPG has ever touched it with a ten foot pole since. There's a reason RZ was the PvP server known for its huge anti-PK movement that like half the server adhered to. Itemloot worked back in the UO days because that game's itemization was completely different and the gameplay didn't revolve 100% around the acquisition of items that you needed in order to play the game at all. That was an entirely different game where losing your gear didn't make most people feel strongly compelled to quit playing. It has always been a complete disaster on EQ, both on live and on the emus that have tried to employ it since.

If T99 has itemloot, it is 100% guaranteed to be a dead server after a month. It's not even up to discussion, it's a fact that nobody has ever presented any kind of reasonable argument against. Polls will be skewed because the people who use these forums are disproportionally of the fucktard forum warrior orientation who think praising itemloot makes them look brave and hardcore, the kind of mongoloids who have been leaving a trail of shit all the way from VZTZ (which, incidentally, exploded in popularity when they got rid of itemloot, turning it from a server with like 50 players into one with hundreds.)

Exactly the experience I was looking to hear about. I figured it didn't really get better as you leveled and began to care more about your gear. If they implement only looting non-equippables found in your bags or something minor, I don't see it being a big issue. But if they do full-fledged RZ style loot I think this scientific experiment is going to come to the conclusion that the fastest way to kill a new server is to implement item loot.

[Danien]

This is pretty much a death sentence to contention of endgame mobs, at least up until velious where you truly can get 100% no drop gear. No guilds are going to engage in a fight where they only have a 25% chance of winning if they're going to lose gear while doing so, even if it's just a lesser item worth ~1k.

[Clark]

Good Team:
Red Ranger
Pink Ranger
Zordon
Ernie

Neut Team:
Black Ranger
Yellow Ranger
Blue Ranger
Alpha 5

Evil Team:
Green Ranger
White Ranger
Rita
Zedd



Nevermind, wrong game

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/6135/bocd.jpg

[Thelemonsong]

I loved Rallos. It provided the only truly immersive experience I've ever felt in an MMORPG.

It created an air of paranoia I haven't seen replecated anywhere else - which resulted in a very tight knit community. You were forever looking over your shoulder, convinced a ganker lay behind every corner, hidden behind every tree. No other server created this sense of fear. PVP with actual consequence. Yes, that consequence reduced the overall number of battles - but it also made the few battles there were a lot more meaningful.

Sirken has made clear the system won't be an item loot style similar to that of Rallos, just one where a kill will be rewarded somehow.

What happens on Red99 most of the time there's a kill? A 1 hour global OOC pissing contest begins as both parties seem to feel the need to posture to each other - and seem to think the rest of the server must witness their battle of childish insults. It's not a great advert for the server.

Introducing teams and rewards may help reduce the toxicity of the community (at least in part..... at least surely to your own teammates?!?!) and give incentive for people to play even if they aren't in the top (only) raiding guild. It's a good idea.

[Agatha]

all of you suck, the white ranger is the best.

That is all.

[Smedy]

http://images.amcnetworks.com/amctv.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/BB-S5-Badger-Bio-590.jpg

[Jadian]

Hey guy trying to sound like an expert on item loot, Vallon Zek started with it too, Rallos isn't the only server to ever have it.

[Rust1d?]

Would like to keep it to 2 teams if possible. Would hate to be fighting a good battle then some third team comes by and trains etc.

And no fucking item loot. Unless you limit it to something like jewelry or something that won't make people get all pissy and quit.