Hard Coded Vs Soft Coded Teams Discussion

[Zade]

Ladies and Gentlemen, we want to see your opinions on hard coded vs soft coded teams.

Soft-Coded:

Anyone can heal/buff anybody but you cannot cast detrimental spell on your own team.

Hard-Coded:

You can only buff/heal your own team. Nobody from other team can buff/heal/rez your team.


Please vote, and comment why you made your choice. Don't just type what your choice was, tards. That's what the poll is for. Tell us why you chose it.

PLEASE NOTE******
This forum IS NOT FOR BITCHING, WHINING, COMPLAINING, QQ, WHY NILLY OR AZRAEL SUCK, OR ANY OTHER BULLSHIFT.
This post will be heavily moderated. Any post that is not solely about why you want hard or soft coded teams, it will get deleted. if you post something else after I delete your post, I will eat your soul.

[Bazia]

if its not hardcoded there really isnt a reason to change from FFA at all

so yes I vote hardcoded all the way to prevent funny business

[Zade]

I added in the basic difference between the two in OP for those who don't know what they were. (Removed the judgement part of it ;) )

[Knawga]

o yeh definitly hardcoded then because of the lame people who have clerics on opposing team to heal them

[Retti_]

Voted hardcoded

If u softcoded it theres gonna be lots of invulnerable griefing worst than ffa imo

[runlvlzero]

I voted soft coded, I have faith that a system to flag people for pvp is possible. This is closer to a /duel system were if someone on your team aids the enemy, they are flagging themselves for FFA pvp.

This is not "just another FFA pvp rulesset" this is a rules set that allows people to openly decide on an encounter by encounter basis if they are a class with beneficial spells.

Thanks for asking for our input.

[Vexenu]

Hard coded, no question.

Having soft-coded teams introduces nothing but problems. Immortal healing is the big one. Cross-teaming also discourages PvP and encourages the creation of a cross-teamed uber guild, which will be unstoppable thanks to having immortal healers from each faction. You will basically be forced to cross-team to compete at the high end, which defeats the entire purpose of having a teams server.

Hard coded teams means that you know your allies and your enemies with no ambiguity. You know who your friends are, and you stick together out of necessity if nothing else, because you won't be getting help from the rest of the server. This dynamic creates much stronger teams and feelings of community.

[Lowlife]

Hard. For obvious reasons. Cross teaming guilds, cross healing, buffing nonsense defeats the purpose of teams

[Harllo]

Hard-Coded.

many good reasons stated above.
If teams are soft-coded then there are really no teams at all.

[Sixsixsix]

Also voted hard coded. Nervous of cross teaming and lower quality team fights.

[Fame]

Hard coded, I think the types of players who play here will take always whatever advantage they can ie. clickies.

[Elderan]

Hard coded... really simple.

[Ebony]

Hard coded, no question.

Having soft-coded teams introduces nothing but problems. Immortal healing is the big one. Cross-teaming also discourages PvP and encourages the creation of a cross-teamed uber guild, which will be unstoppable thanks to having immortal healers from each faction. You will basically be forced to cross-team to compete at the high end, which defeats the entire purpose of having a teams server.

Hard coded teams means that you know your allies and your enemies with no ambiguity. You know who your friends are, and you stick together out of necessity if nothing else, because you won't be getting help from the rest of the server. This dynamic creates much stronger teams and feelings of community.


Vexenu is right, I vote for hard coded Teams 100%.

Soft coded Teams still beats FFA but not by much.

On both types of Teams servers new players can at least take their lvl 5 Halfling Cleric into Misty Thicket & not have two lvl 6 Halfling Clerics beat their head in with splintered clubs right away. But with Soft coded Teams the bad guys just have to add a Troll in there, have the Halfling Clerics heal it & you have the same problem immortal healer or not. It's a lot harder but the same result.

FFA & soft coded Teams makes it feel like you're in a totally fake world of brainless EQ counter strike & that gets really boring fast for most people.

With Hard coded Teams you know exactly who your Friends & enemies are. There's also no immortal healers & 1 guild can't automatically recruit the WHOLE server like with FFA or soft Teams which is a big reason Red99's pop is so low.

One of the BEST parts of Hard coded Teams is there's a HUGE feeling of Community for each Team unlike the other two. Each Team has homeland areas they control & you can have a LOT of FUN PVP either invading the other guys homeland or defending your own homeland along with fighting for camps & raid mobs etc. Having 3 or 4 actual communities in the game world makes the server a LOT more Exciting for new players & they stay & play more IMHO.

[Danien]

I've always preferred hard coded teams, but I think it is especially necessary in a small community like this. A large portion of the player base will be made up of people who are familiar with one another to an extent that was not possible on live given how small and how long this (EQ emu pvp) community have been around. Given this I believe soft coded teams would largely end up being played out as just another FFA-server.

[dethbringre]

Hard coded teams, detrimental spells only vs opposing teams. Keep communication and trading open vs. opposing team. The only reason I say keep trade options open for opposing team is for instances when obtaining a particular item may be rather difficult for a casual player. Ghoulbane from uguk comes to mind for this example.

Soft coded teams seems to me that it would not be a whole lot different than what we have now via red99.

[Alecta]

93% to 7% so far.

While I like the results, I expected a different ratio due to the eventual merge concerns.

[Nothxu]

Hard Coded. Too many opportunities to grief with soft-coded rules.

[Elderan]

93% to 7% so far.

While I like the results, I expected a different ratio due to the eventual merge concerns.

Keep in mind, if a merge of red into teams happens.

There HAS to be a way people on red can choose their team no matter race/class. You CANNOT split up guilds.

[Zade]

Keep in mind, if a merge of red into teams happens.

There HAS to be a way people on red can choose their team no matter race/class. You CANNOT split up guilds.

They will be split up if they are hard coded. Thats the point of the poll hoss. Thats why I am pretty much shocked at this 93% hard coded

[SamwiseRed]

no brainer hard-coded. soft-coded maybe the most retarded thing ive ever heard of.

[Silikten]

Hard coded. It will make teams more solid and help build a stronger community. It will help when you cant help your friend if he's a lighty and you're a darky.

Also, this means AEs will not hit your own team correct?

[Elderan]

They will be split up if they are hard coded. Thats the point of the poll hoss. Thats why I am pretty much shocked at this 93% hard coded

Sirken assured us that would never happen.

Dont go back on his words now.

[Zade]

Also, this means AEs will not hit your own team correct?

AFAIK, yes, your team will be protected. would need Alecta to confirm

[Vexenu]

Keep in mind, if a merge of red into teams happens.

There HAS to be a way people on red can choose their team no matter race/class. You CANNOT split up guilds.

Yes you can.

A merge preserves characters and their gear, not guilds.

Of course this is ignoring the fact that a geared-merge of Red into Teams is a fucking horrible idea to begin with and should never happen. A merge into Teams should be with naked characters or not at all. Send geared Reds to Blue or Teams instantly becomes a joke.

Or just transfer all Nihilum to their own server since that's basically what they want.

[SamwiseRed]

tbh why are we so concerned about the merge? also things can change. im sure if the teams server ends up being highly successful, other things would be considered.

[Zade]

Sirken assured us that would never happen.

Dont go back on his words now.

Not sure what he said, but will ask him about it. I do not believe there would be a way to avoid it if there was a hard code.

[Elderan]

Not sure what he said, but will ask him about it. I do not believe there would be a way to avoid it if there was a hard code.

A few ways.

There should be 3 teams. Allow for the person to choose their team at character creation. Don't limit teams based on class and or race. This is the only way you can assure each team is fair and balanced.

This will then solve the potential merge issue.

[s1ckness]

Keep in mind, if a merge of red into teams happens.

There HAS to be a way people on red can choose their team no matter race/class. You CANNOT split up guilds.

why not?

if teams and red merged id think it would be FFA btw

[SamwiseRed]

choosing 3 teams at creation? da fuck mite as well just keep red99.

also this is everquest, fair and balance are not classic.

planning the server around merge issues is fail to begin with. lets concentrate on having the best damn classic pvp teams server to ever exist, not what will become of it later. the launch is the most important thing we should be concerned about. it will make or break the server. see red99 launch as a recent example. we almost didnt recover.

[Elderan]

this is retarded..

elderan is speaking for the better of his guild, not for the better of the server ..

The second option for the merge is to allow for race/class changes on the merge...

[s1ckness]

people on red99 will have a HUGE advantage over people from teams99 cuz the server has been out longer and people have farmed everything they want, splitting it up the teams on red99 would make it fair

[SamwiseRed]

there is an easy solution to how the pvp server should be handled. for each variable ask yourself, is it classic? if the answer is no then its a no go, if yes then proceed to next variable.

[Elderan]

people on red99 will have a HUGE advantage over people from teams99 cuz the server has been out longer and people have farmed everything they want, splitting it up the teams on red99 would make it fair

Should never force friends to be split up..

Sirken promised he wouldn't split guilds up IF a marge from red to teams happened.

[s1ckness]

The second option for the merge is to allow for race/class changes on the merge...

this isnt a bad idea but still kills the fact that guilds on red99 will have a huge advantage.

red99 should be split so all sides get new/good players .. red99 is dead because there is 0 competition on the server. no1 wants to play on it and they would rather lvl on blue99 with a large population.

[s1ckness]

Should never force friends to be split up..

Sirken promised he wouldn't split guilds up IF a marge from red to teams happened.

i agree that u shouldnt be forced to split up, but u will be leveling new characters anyway, why not make it on the same team ?

[Zade]

Try to keep the convo to actual arguments and not attacks on guilds or other subjects not retaining to OP, please.

Elderan, I feel like you want a soft code hard coded. Its either one or the other. Either its hard coded and you have to work with what you pick for your team if you want your guild to stay intact, or you choose soft coded.

[s1ckness]

hardcode should include u cant send tells ingame to different factions. good and evil should not be able 2 talk too each other.

unless its in ooc

[Zade]

hardcode should include u cant send tells ingame to different factions. good and evil should not be able 2 talk too each other.

unless its in ooc

I would be all for this. Although, doesn't belong here ATM titty. And as far as global ooc, I hope its not going to be around for teams.

[s1ckness]

btw is velious coming out on red99 when teams99 opens zade

[Zade]

no comment. keep it hard code/soft code related. there will be a time and place for that.

[Elderan]

Try to keep the convo to actual arguments and not attacks on guilds or other subjects not retaining to OP, please.

Elderan, I feel like you want a soft code hard coded. Its either one or the other. Either its hard coded and you have to work with what you pick for your team if you want your guild to stay intact, or you choose soft coded.

No, soft coded teams would be terrible. It would allow extreme greifing in pvp.

What I do want is when/if the merge happens and it goes from red to teams then I want my friends not be split up.

Lets be honest this server is just to try and break Nihilum up to allow more guilds into high in content. The entire idea is flawed as one high end guild will dominate teams 99 as well.

All I want is for promises to be kept. If the merge happens allow red people to choose their team or offer race/class changes.

[Alecta]

There HAS to be a way people on red can choose their team no matter race/class. You CANNOT split up guilds.
Also if you would finish with the fixes to red, stop talking about teams 99 and add velious red will average 350 a night and teams 99 wont be needed.

http://i.imgur.com/4t2baZ5.jpg

The second option for the merge is to allow for race/class changes on the merge...

The race change is possible, but there's a lot to consider with that (factions, base stats, racial abilities.)

I don't see class changes happening, even if your desired team doesnt have your class.

[Alecta]

Also, make legit zone control maps.

Been discussed. I don't think we will provide a leaderboard, but I would like to provide a feed for those who want to create their own statistics.

[Elderan]

The race change is possible, but there's a lot to consider with that (factions, base stats, racial abilities.)

I don't see class changes happening, even if your desired team doesnt have your class.

Why is everyone so against just allowing the choice of team a/b/c at character creation?

This solves so many issues.

[s1ckness]

No, soft coded teams would be terrible. It would allow extreme greifing in pvp.

What I do want is when/if the merge happens and it goes from red to teams then I want my friends not be split up.

Lets be honest this server is just to try and break Nihilum up to allow more guilds into high in content. The entire idea is flawed as one high end guild will dominate teams 99 as well.

All I want is for promises to be kept. If the merge happens allow red people to choose their team or offer race/class changes.

i agree with soft code would be terrible.

i dont think this server to try and break nihilum up, i do think its is to bring more competition to red99

but it is to help bring more people to the server, including all the EQmac players.

Nihilums problem is that they never stop recruiting, not saying its a bad idea but if u want pvp on the server, u gotta learn to say NO sometimes. if u want 150 people in TOV with you on a 200 population server, u should just go play blue99 .

vztz had good competition becuasse the best guild on the server did not just recruite every body they could find... no one wanted to farm uncontested dragons.

make as many vztz jokes as you want but the population was normally over 300 with maybe 50-100 2boxing and was 3 or 4 guilds always fighting over content.

[Zade]

Lets be honest this server is just to try and break Nihilum up to allow more guilds into high in content. The entire idea is flawed as one high end guild will dominate teams 99 as well.

I assure you, the teams server is not being created with any one guild in mind. I am sure that if Nihilum feels like this teams server is solely built to destroy them, they wont play on it.

Teams99 will happen whether or not Nihilum plays on it or not. Its your choice to make supportive arguments on why you prefer certain rules/codes over others, not to QQ about poor nilly. Im sure you will all be fine either way.

[Zade]

Also, again, stay on topic. Non-related subject matters will be deleted.

[Elderan]

I assure you, the teams server is not being created with any one guild in mind. I am sure that if Nihilum feels like this teams server is solely built to destroy them, they wont play on it.

Teams99 will happen whether or not Nihilum plays on it or not. Its your choice to make supportive arguments on why you prefer certain rules/codes over others, not to QQ about poor nilly. Im sure you will all be fine either way.

My comment about how hard coded teams are needed is only common sense.

I only care about teams99 because of the potential merge. I care about red99. I would rather never have to deal with team99 but you guys have pretty much thrown it into my face at this point forcing me to take notice of it.

Since teams99 effects red99 you have to take the potential merge into account when setting teams.

Allow the player to choose team a/b/c on character creation... Its so simple.

[Dullah]

Teams ruleset not even an issue after the merge because by then people will understand why FFA is the better ruleset.

With velious on red, it will become the dominant server soon as classic content gets stale on teams after the dominant guild is able to go FFA (using 3 50s in each team) to put a stranglehold on the box (this is what we will do).

Lets focus on how to make the servers we have better rather than catering to the defeated masses and their dreams of hurting red by pushing for a new server.

[Colgate]

don't agree with teams in general but hardcoded teams will provide far less of a headache for everyone involved

newer people will want teams, not free for all with a twist

needs to be actual teams too, not just team A team B team C

the novelty of teams lies in that people feel like they're different from the other side

[Giovanni]

Rogean was working on phone authentication for eq logins. Could that be used in conjunction with hard coded teams to help preserve true teams?

[Nizzarr]

93% to 7% so far.

While I like the results, I expected a different ratio due to the eventual merge concerns.

What merge concerns? clarify plz?

We'd like to know so we start new characters in the same team or something and stop wasting time gearing characters on other teams?

[Zade]

What merge concerns? clarify plz?

We'd like to know so we start new characters in the same team or something and stop wasting time gearing characters on other teams?

It was suggested that teams 99 may be merged into red99 at some point in the future of the server. It's not 100%. The servers may merge, they may not.

[s1ckness]

Teams ruleset not even an issue after the merge because by then people will understand why FFA is the better ruleset.

With velious on red, it will become the dominant server soon as classic content gets stale on teams after the dominant guild is able to go FFA (using 3 50s in each team) to put a stranglehold on the box (this is what we will do).

Lets focus on how to make the servers we have better rather than catering to the defeated masses and their dreams of hurting red by pushing for a new server.

i think FFA would be better if servers merg but that could be another poll for a different time,

Velious will do NOTHING for red99 expect nilly will have 150 in tov while 50-100 others in 3 different guilds randomly farm thurg quest armor/ lodi when they can .

server will be even more dead and harder to find pvp, not to remind everyone that the gear gap in velious is retarded and no other new clans/crews will have a chance

server pop would NEVER be over 250 and i doubt it would even get that high if it was released tomorrow.

teams99 only hope for real pvp during velious

best part of velious was pvp EVERYDAY over mobs unlike 1 or 2 days a week like in kunark.

no idea why u guys wanna just farm everything uncontested , why do u even play on red99? unless its an easy way to get pve cuz TMO and other guild run blue99 and yall would have 0 chances at pve there

[Vexenu]

Best outcome for all parties is no merge and just keep Red running for the foreseeable future. The vast majority of Red players will restart on Teams, but Nihilum any anyone else who wants to stay and keep their gear can do so. Red pop will gradually dwindle over time at which point a merge could be considered. By then (and this means over a year from the launch at least) Teams should be established enough to consider a geared merge from Red.

[Greegon]

harddd no more pandemonium bs

[Greegon]

Best outcome for all parties is no merge and just keep Red running for the foreseeable future. The vast majority of Red players will restart on Teams, but Nihilum any anyone else who wants to stay and keep their gear can do so. Red pop will gradually dwindle over time at which point a merge could be considered. By then (and this means over a year from the launch at least) Teams should be established enough to consider a geared merge from Red.

this guy is smrt

[s1ckness]

Best outcome for all parties is no merge and just keep Red running for the foreseeable future. The vast majority of Red players will restart on Teams, but Nihilum any anyone else who wants to stay and keep their gear can do so. Red pop will gradually dwindle over time at which point a merge could be considered. By then (and this means over a year from the launch at least) Teams should be established enough to consider a geared merge from Red.

this is probably the best post iv seen

Meatballed.org

[Zade]

gunna leave the merge posts up. stay on focus. you all are like 16 year olds in a strip club. Stay on topic. hard code/soft code

[Ebony]

gunna leave the merge posts up. stay on focus. you all are like 16 year olds in a strip club. Stay on topic. hard code/soft code

Sorry, I was typing my post when you posted that.

Even though Soft coding Teams helps Elderan's desire to keep his guild together, he & everyone else are right when they say Soft Coding causes way to many problems.

[Aenor]

It's interesting that people like Chew talk bad about hard code elsewhere but everybody's voting in favor here. Given the fact that my hybrid server thread and Vexenu's modified SZ thread are the two most discussed ruleset threads, I don't understand the oversimplification here of an either/or hard code or soft code. I think the evil team being FFA to itself is a brilliant idea and would make it the most popular team. Zade, are you saying Vexenu's ideas are not under consideration?

[Zade]

At this point, nothing is set in stone Aenor. The results of this post do not, in any means, set the coding. It is merely to try to understand what the player base is looking for. I've read both threads and both threads have great info. We have our ideas of what we think will work and results from various threads will help our decisions when it comes time to make them.

Again, nothing is set in stone, and the results of a poll such as this isn't going to be the cut and dry end to it.

[Aenor]

Cool preciate the update.

[s1ckness]

i like that the GMs are getting input from the community, it does help and we appreciate it.

from what i remember hearing in the stream, is that this server will be faster xp/content release. just wondering if this is still true? like 3months classic>>>>>> 3 months kunark>>>> 3 months velious then merg or something like that ( if they did merg)

i know nothing set in stone but is that still the direction you guys are going?

[Nizzarr]

So you're talking about merges, chances of non merges. This is all very ambiguous and if I was a new player -- I wouldnt probably play/start on the red server if the current FFA server's future is uncertain.

It was already mentioned that the staff didnt want to deal with three different servers, and rightfully so. Can we get a clear plan? scenario(s) that the staff are expecting with the creation of a team server? You're literally mindfucking with hundreds of players right now, and I believe everybody here deserves clarity on this subject.

[Zade]

Basically, the only thing that is 100% is that there will be a teams server.

[Fawqueue]

Hard-Coded is the clear choice, regardless of which direction you take to setup the rest of the ruleset.

Any teams concept needs to have clearly defined teams with clearly defined opponents to really be successful. I didn't personally play on any of the EQ teams servers, but thus far I've heard a) How horrible it was to have soft-coded team 'exploiting' making PvP difficult and b) How amazing the hard-coded teams were for bringing these communities together for meaningful PvP encounters.

So lets go with hard-coded. And avoid the A/B/C teams selection at character select. I want my team selection to be a meaningful choice, whether it's based on the alignment I want to follow or a grouping of deities or races. Those will get me really thinking about the character I want to create and how I will interact with the game world. Clicking "B" just because it's in the middle, without any idea of what that B team will consist of, where my teammates might be generally located, or even who will be with me just seems...boring.

[Agatha]

voted hard cause, hard.

[Aenor]

Basically, the only thing that is 100% is that there will be a teams server.

I would highly encourage the staff to leave this open ended, no matter how much it may rip at Nizzar's psyche. It's much better to leave it open and decide later than to say one thing now, set expectations and then not meet them. You've let us know it can go either way. The staff doesn't owe the hamsters anything more than that.

Also:

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/3728093/bill-lumbergh-o.gif

Can you feel it Nizzar?

[runlvlzero]

gunna leave the merge posts up. stay on focus. you all are like 16 year olds in a strip club. Stay on topic. hard code/soft code

Yep hard to break old habbits. I encourage people to post derails in new threads, you can cross quote between threads.

[Pudge]

Keep in mind, if a merge of red into teams happens.

There HAS to be a way people on red can choose their team no matter race/class. You CANNOT split up guilds.

naw.

Make the teams server Good, Neut, Evil/"Discord" where the evil team is essentially FFA and can attack eachother. this will keep the team from being too zergtastic and overpowering the pixel farmage, because you know the evil pop will be higher b/c it's the "easy" choice.

THEN, when teams merge, make all Red chars join this "Evil/Discord" team. even the bards, etc. that would have been on the "good" team. make some kind of exception, change their deity or whatever.

This keeps all FFA red toons FFA, while also preserving their chars. The fact that they all merge onto one "team" is negated by the discord. Make Evil team have red colored names. make goods+neuts have green/orange whatever.










or.............. would it just be better to split the old mains of some "friends" up? not sure.


PS gms please shut down red while teams is active, only merge red toons just before velious, and keep the eventually merged population safe from empty-box pixel farmage/population splitting. SHUT DOWN RED99 FOR TEAMS

[Colgate]

soft coded teams server will just be free for all with an annoyance thrown in

just hard code it

[Rec]

If teams99 isn't hard coded then polls don't matter just like in Everquest Next!

[Nune]

I played Tallon Zek on Live, and, in my opinion, Cross-Teaming ruined the server. Pandemonium justified it as "zomg orange tags (Evil races) are SO MUCH more powerful than all the other teams not fair" which is true to an extent, but they just made a guild that had EVERY team in it and monopolized the server.

This forces strategy for guilds in the blueprint: Gonna have to sacrifice having some classes and racial advantages. I suppose, if allowed, guilds could just tag for every team, but come raid time this is going to cause issues, though dividing your raid groups up by teams could mitigate it alot. I voted hard-coded, I feel it adds a layer of planning that soft coded negates

[Lowlife]

This forces strategy for guilds in the blueprint: Gonna have to sacrifice having some classes and racial advantages.

This is a controversial element I agree with. Having Troll SKs, Ogre Warriors, Iksar Monks etc, should be offset by the loss of Bards. So on and so forth.

[Fawqueue]

I voted hard-coded, I feel it adds a layer of planning that soft coded negates

I agree. I don't want things to be over-complicated. Give me my team, give me my enemies, and give me PvP. Don't let someone who should be on my team buddy up with my enemy, buff and heal him, and go turncoat on me and ruin said PvP.

[myxomatosii]

If you want true teams, what I mean by that is actual sides where people work together and strategize without the politics of trolling and invulnerability then hard-coded is the ONLY way.

There are a lot of overweight basement dwellers stereotypical personality archetypes here, living on the forums, the raid scenes, and are ready to pounce on and exploit a hole in the rules to make the game worse for everyone else. Why? I have on idea, but you and I know its true.

You'll have teams 1, 2, and 3. Said guy will be on team 2, with his friend's new shadowknight on team 1 he helped twink up and is helping level. He's leveling in a team 1 zone but can't be fucked with or dispelled (because I assume we aren't getting SZ rules where lower levels swarm higher levels to take them down in such situations) so he's invincible and OOR buffing, thorning, and healing.

He doesn't care about courtesy. Fair play. Etc. Fuck you, the GMs made these the rules therefore it must be right what I'm doing. Rule lawyers, the blathering idiots they are.

[Sirken]

Sirken assured us that would never happen.
Dont go back on his words now.
i said i was against hardcoding because it would break up guilds if we decided to merge red into teams. however, after discussions i have changed to position to one of pro hardcode because the only reason to go soft would be to protect guilds, and hardcoded is needed to ensure pvp awesomeness long term/big picture. if guilds were split up, yes people would be very butthurt for a few weeks and QQ their faces off, sure. BUT the guilds will just have them reroll and PL them back to 60 in that time. and so the problem with hardcoding is resolved in a few weeks, but the problems associated with softcoding will stay with the server and last forever.


A few ways.
There should be 3 teams. Allow for the person to choose their team at character creation. Don't limit teams based on class and or race. This is the only way you can assure each team is fair and balanced. This will then solve the potential merge issue.
Fair and balanced are not the same thing. the teams will be fair. if u want balance go to WoW or GW2



also, Rogean stated in the public round table discussion that we have zero intention of running 3 servers long term. so one way of another (either red into teams, or, teams into red) expect a merge.

[SamwiseRed]

This is a controversial element I agree with. Having Troll SKs, Ogre Warriors, Iksar Monks etc, should be offset by the loss of Bards. So on and so forth.

Bards can be evil, they can worship rallos zek.

[Nune]

I think most of us who have been here for a while knew that was a long term expectation, I just hope the timetable works out. The issue here, so I see, is Nihilium is 100% max geared through Kunark era. So unless you're going to put Valimus out for a while on Teams, Nihi has 0 reason to roll on Teams, they'd be better off staying uncontested on Red, padding their dragon lewts in anticipation for a merge. And even so, they have such an uncontested raid force that they could just run through velimouse on red and max gear, then merge into / take in Teams and be the best geared kids on the block. Nawmsayin.

We want their pop in Teams, and their blood on our swords, their tears in our solo cups. But i believe they will take pixels > fresh reroll/having fun any day of the week : See Red99's current state

[SamwiseRed]

I cannot think of a better way to do teams than Sullon Zek, I am sorry but no. Shit should be lore based and make sense in the world of Norrath. Lookin for immersive teams here and not teams based on a spreadsheet of abilities and class/race combos sorted out evenly into 3 teams. Goods lose sks and necros (who cares) and evils lose paladins (again who cares.)

As for evil being ffa, naw. We want a hard-coded teams server, anything else is uncivilized.

As for level 50s griefing newbs in crushbone blah blah blah. EQ PvP shouldnt be centered around weekly dragon spawns. Battles should be faught over zone control and ideology hence why Deity based teams makes the most sense. this is TEAMS, a team lives and dies together whether you are a newb or not. it is up for the TEAM to protect their newbs, or launch a counter attack.

one team one fight, nawwwwwwuuuutttttiiiiiimeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen

[Sirken]

Samwise all "SZ or bust"








Bust inc









im not trying to be a dick, but SZ really was (statistically) the absolute worst server (red or blue) in the history or EverQuest. the SZ community/mentality is the #1 reason people people dont stay (ie: quit) on Red99. why on earth would we try to emulate such a horrible server?

[Exotics]

Keep in mind, if a merge of red into teams happens.

There HAS to be a way people on red can choose their team no matter race/class. You CANNOT split up guilds.

http://engl1000philbrook071.pbworks.com/f/ChillPill%20Bringitback.net.jpg

[Supreme]

If we allow teams then all class/race combos should be available.

I want my Ogre Magi damnit!

[Rec]

More new people will be quiting from twinked lower level characters griefing crushbone than from lvl 50s griefing crushbone. SZ rules actually allows these twinks to be attacked and cleared out. The alternative of hoping someone is in the appropriate level range and decently geared to be online and around is more stupidity that shouldn't exist in 2013.

[Knawga]

im a big fan of rallos and low level pvp etc and i never found the twinks to be a problem u had people who griefed with low level twinks and took ur cloth armor etc but once u got past the 4 lvl range of them it was over so i see ur point rec but it will be resolved by a day or 2 of time as to where a twink on SZ could farm u until u was 15 levels higher in different zones and when u got to high they would swap to a char 15 levels higher than you or even more or just initally start on a lvl 50 toon killing level 1's like they used to in akanon and they made a game out of it and would literally have 50 to 100 level 50's going around akanon killing lowbies for hours and i think hard coding and a good level range would eliminate all the issue's of ur post also i dont see why people are alrdy complainign about a server merge thats over a year away i can see people in nilly because they have toons they been farming kunark with forever with and have max vp gear etc but then wut do u do pvp isnt really rewarding on red99 u dont get anything from it no pvp points to buy raid gear with or beable to loot they raid gear so i think teams will help alot with the pvp side of things and as far as breaking guilds up i like sirkens point of it will last maybe a month of people crying like girls but if u want to stay together as a guild im pritty sure that it wouldnt be hard to swap from a barbarian warrior to a ogre or troll or visa versa

[SamwiseRed]

Samwise all "SZ or bust"








Bust inc









im not trying to be a dick, but SZ really was (statistically) the absolute worst server (red or blue) in the history or EverQuest. the SZ community/mentality is the #1 reason people people dont stay (ie: quit) on Red99. why on earth would we try to emulate such a horrible server?

why are you so quick to dismiss sz ruleset? the community clearly wants 3 teams. is it a bust because you say so? who is gonna decide the ruleset, the gms? nilbog? community vote? I like you but i dont like your tone when it comes to this teams server. why should your word weigh heavier than mine when it comes to a new server. if i didnt think it was the best option for the new server i wouldnt recommmend it. im not pushing SZ for nostalgia purposes. i truly think its the best way to go about it.

the SZ ruleset wasnt duck-taped together by a few gms overnight. verant thought long and hard about it. just please god, no more custom shit.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/images/p99-gold-flat.gif

[Rec]

I am still confident something that is 75% or greater of the SZ ruleset would win any community vote. I don't want 100% SZ, even though I liked SZ there are still things we can improve. If the new server doesn't have an SZ"esque" ruleset it won't be community's decision that's for certain.

[Smedy]

voted hard coded cause everyone else did, just want new server pals!

[SamwiseRed]

As history has shown on this server and blue, any steering away from classic has been a disaster. See no guard assist on release, awkward level ranged pvp, variance on blue, ect. What are your problems with SZ ruleset? I am sure for everything you think of as a problem, there is a reasoning behind it.

[SamwiseRed]

id like to see those statistics first all. second what do statistics have to do with liking the ruleset?

if we are basing ruleset of statistics than I guess teams should be horde vs alliance because no eq server came close to the population of vanilla wow.

[Rec]

statistically no one wants to play FFA yet we have a server

[SamwiseRed]

statistically Knawga's posts make no sense.

[Sirken]

why are you so quick to dismiss sz ruleset? the community clearly wants 3 teams. is it a bust because you say so? who is gonna decide the ruleset, the gms? nilbog? community vote? I like you but i dont like your tone when it comes to this teams server. why should your word weigh heavier than mine when it comes to a new server. if i didnt think it was the best option for the new server i wouldnt recommmend it. im not pushing SZ for nostalgia purposes. i truly think its the best way to go about it.

Because the SZ ruleset doesn't promote pvp, it promotes grief. Because the SZ server had the smallest population of any of the EQ servers. because most of the people that switched from red to blue did so because of the community on red.

i agree with you that 3 hard coded teams is the best. i just don't agree with the training, or the complete lack of PNP, or the no lvl limit PvP. none of those things promote a healthy community/population.

the ruleset will be decided by the staff. And just as we always do, we will consider player suggestions/feedback.

as far as how much weight "my word" has, who knows. i'm simply disagreeing with you on this subject, albeit very, very adamantly, because i wholeheartedly disagree with your assessment.

but since you are being serious, i apologize for my previous trollish replies to your Pro-SZ rhetoric. if you make good arguments, the sky is the limit

<3

[Knawga]

SZ Was the lowest pop pvp server while Rallos had highest and went farthest even in progression why i think teams should have a twist of both but when he gives u an answer and u keep asking the same question thats off topic its dumb

[Fawqueue]

why are you so quick to dismiss sz ruleset? the community clearly wants 3 teams. is it a bust because you say so? who is gonna decide the ruleset, the gms? nilbog? community vote? I like you but i dont like your tone when it comes to this teams server. why should your word weigh heavier than mine when it comes to a new server. if i didnt think it was the best option for the new server i wouldnt recommmend it. im not pushing SZ for nostalgia purposes. i truly think its the best way to go about it.

the SZ ruleset wasnt duck-taped together by a few gms overnight. verant thought long and hard about it. just please god, no more custom shit.


While I don't share Sam's obvious frustration, I do agree with the sentiment. Although I think we probably need another GM poll about which team structures appeal to everyone so we stop derailing the hard-coded vs soft-coded topic here.

I am happy to see that Sirken and I agree on the hard-coding though. Lets call it a lock and move on to the next subject!

[Rec]

My problem with "promoting pvp" is whether there is a lvl 10-30 bracket or no limit, a legitimate new player has zero chance against either a twinked character in that bracket or a lvl 50, it makes no difference. With no limit people can actually help you by getting rid of the threat. Which a twinked character from the same bracket on your own side could do but guess which one is going to be available when you need them 99 out of 100 times. Now if we can come up with something to help legitimate new players from getting abused by twinks another way I'm all for that.

[SamwiseRed]

ill type up a too long didnt read post later. I agree things are getting off topic. I honestly feel the answer to soft vs hard coded is a no brainer. the poll indicates people actually thinking about this.

imo close thread like someone said previously and start new topic. lets get this ball rollin.

[Elderan]

i said i was against hardcoding because it would break up guilds if we decided to merge red into teams. however, after discussions i have changed to position to one of pro hardcode because the only reason to go soft would be to protect guilds, and hardcoded is needed to ensure pvp awesomeness long term/big picture. if guilds were split up, yes people would be very butthurt for a few weeks and QQ their faces off, sure. BUT the guilds will just have them reroll and PL them back to 60 in that time. and so the problem with hardcoding is resolved in a few weeks, but the problems associated with softcoding will stay with the server and last forever.

Fair and balanced are not the same thing. the teams will be fair. if u want balance go to WoW or GW2

also, Rogean stated in the public round table discussion that we have zero intention of running 3 servers long term. so one way of another (either red into teams, or, teams into red) expect a merge.

Jesus where to begin...

The idea that Teams99 will promote pvp is completely flawed. Let me explain what will happen on T99.

- First 2 months pvp will be great.
- The next 3-4 months most people will migrate to the side who has the most people. Pvp will start to shrink.
- 5+ months in there will be no mass pvp. The only pvp will be people who roll chars on the side with the less people knowing they will have alot of targets to gank. Those pvp fights will be gank, zone, log type of fights.

Right now with an average pop of 150 on R99 there are about 70 pvp kills per night. That is a 46% of kills to player pop per day.

I will bet you any amount of money that in 6+ months on T99 that number will be FAR less. Meaning less pvp... which is the so called goal of T99.


Why not solve this merge issue and balance issue now and allow players to choose their team at character creation?

[Lowlife]

Jesus where to begin...

The idea that Teams99 will promote pvp is completely flawed. Let me explain what will happen on T99.

- First 2 months pvp will be great.
- The next 3-4 months most people will migrate to the side who has the most people. Pvp will start to shrink.
- 5+ months in there will be no mass pvp. The only pvp will be people who roll chars on the side with the less people knowing they will have alot of targets to gank. Those pvp fights will be gank, zone, log type of fights.

Right now with an average pop of 150 on R99 there are about 70 pvp kills per night. That is a 46% of kills to player pop per day.

I will bet you any amount of money that in 6+ months on T99 that number will be FAR less. Meaning less pvp... which is the so called goal of T99.


Why not solve this merge issue and balance issue now and allow players to choose their team at character creation?

quiet you. stop freaking out.

[Supreme]

Should just do Ladder then.

Move everyone from Red99 to Blue99 and start Teams/SZ/Whatever every year.

[Jadian]

Can we just agree to not listen to the bullshit spewing forth from the people who ruined r99 in the first place?

[pharmakos]

hardcoded because invincible healers are lame

[Danien]

Jesus where to begin...

The idea that Teams99 will promote pvp is completely flawed. Let me explain what will happen on T99.

- First 2 months pvp will be great.
- The next 3-4 months most people will migrate to the side who has the most people. Pvp will start to shrink.
- 5+ months in there will be no mass pvp. The only pvp will be people who roll chars on the side with the less people knowing they will have alot of targets to gank. Those pvp fights will be gank, zone, log type of fights.

Right now with an average pop of 150 on R99 there are about 70 pvp kills per night. That is a 46% of kills to player pop per day.

I will bet you any amount of money that in 6+ months on T99 that number will be FAR less. Meaning less pvp... which is the so called goal of T99.


Why not solve this merge issue and balance issue now and allow players to choose their team at character creation?

While I'm not playing at the moment I know that while I played the amount of mass PvP here was scarce at best and I doubt it has changed much ever since.
The greatest thing about a team-server is that it actually promotes community. The mindset of MANY people here have been that if you aren't in my guild, you're against me. Teams give people a bigger incentive to be friendly toward other people since everyone you meet is a potential ally against your natural enemies and they can never really turn on you.
Another problem that it addresses is that people can attack others without feeling like assholes. Will there be more PvP on the new server? I doubt it, but I think and hope it could attract another type of crowd.

[Tehwoot]

hard coded would work better and be less QQ.

[MrSparkle001]

Has to be hardcoded but with such a small population there will undoubtedly be a migration to the most populated team which will completely unbalance the server. It is 100% guaranteed to happen. There will be those who purposely play on the smaller team but more will choose the biggest team. Guaranteed.

[Nune]

With all due respect, the deals done is it not? If we're doing this by a majority, it's obviously hard coded. Seemingly the only people pushing otherwise have ulterior motives in mind. We should now try and refine what "teams" means because it seems the GMs are willing to do something custom/not classic and it'd be nice to see the community not fuck this up for once with anger and pizza sauce all over their keyboards.

Side note - I do like the idea of hard coded teams not being able to interact with the opposing teams, WoW world PvP style. I'm sure people will just use vent to try and work around this if they're going to be shady about it but it takes a large layer of grief out of the picture.

[Furniture]

If we want the same exact server we have now then yes to softcoded

[Noselacri]

A teams ruleset is pretty meaningless if it isn't hardcoded because the only point of teams is so that there's always people you can rely on to help you, or at the very least not kill you. It makes it much harder for a server to become completely unbalanced and for new players to be griefed off the server before they even have a chance to get started. If they make teams where you can kill people on your own team, they completely defeat the purpose of teams and would be better off just wiping R99 (and fixing resists if those are still fucked, I dunno).

Plain R99 is better than soft teams because soft teams is a pointless system that does nothing but reduce the number of people you can group with. Hard teams serve a purpose the validity of which is arguable -- the PvP will be less pure, but there's a better chance of a balanced server. If they want to make a new server and not just redo R99, the only thing that makes sense is hardcoded teams. I would have preferred if R99 was classic from the start because that's pretty much the reason it failed, but that's too late now.

Hardcoded teams or the whole thing is pointless.

[Furniture]

Has to be hardcoded but with such a small population there will undoubtedly be a migration to the most populated team which will completely unbalance the server. It is 100% guaranteed to happen. There will be those who purposely play on the smaller team but more will choose the biggest team. Guaranteed.


This is probably true to an extent, and i think it was this way on live (ive always heard evil side was the biggest) but was balanced out in other ways (no bards/druids on evil side, no necros/sks, on good side ect.). I don't think PvP players are going to settle with little to no pvp on this server so there will always be people rolling other teams to keep the pvp alive if it gets down to that. I could be wrong but I don't think the team population balance is really going to be that terrible to the server as a whole

[Giovanni]

How do we handle creating spies and leveling multiple chars on each team? Sullon zek had one char per account and a subscription cost which limited the spies.

[Greegon]

lol tomato spamming every single thread about how teams are gay eat a snickers bro blood sugars low

[MrSparkle001]

With all due respect, the deals done is it not? If we're doing this by a majority, it's obviously hard coded. Seemingly the only people pushing otherwise have ulterior motives in mind. We should now try and refine what "teams" means because it seems the GMs are willing to do something custom/not classic and it'd be nice to see the community not fuck this up for once with anger and pizza sauce all over their keyboards.

My vote is for diety-based teams. Not necessarily SZ's ruleset but definitely diety-based.

How do we handle creating spies and leveling multiple chars on each team? Sullon zek had one char per account and a subscription cost which limited the spies.

Spies are a given. There will be no handling that, they will simply be a part of the server. They can't be limited or controlled in any way. It's just not possible.

[Pudge]

i got a post deleted bros :(

the thing is, hard code/soft code debate --> cross-teaming debate, cross teaming discussion --> single char per IP/mac in order to not cross team. seeeeeeeee my post was on topic! server rules cannot be discussed in a vacuum!

[Lowlife]

i got a post deleted bros :(

the thing is, hard code/soft code debate --> cross-teaming debate, cross teaming discussion --> single char per IP/mac in order to not cross team. seeeeeeeee my post was on topic! server rules cannot be discussed in a vacuum!

deserves its own thread

[s1ckness]

- 5+ months in there will be no mass pvp. The only pvp will be people who roll chars on the side with the less people knowing they will have alot of targets to gank. Those pvp fights will be gank, zone, log type of fights.



so in 5+ months the pvp will be like red99.

0masss pvp and dead as fuck?

no1 wants to pick a faction at character select screen, people want to fight good vs evil.

that was the fun thing about teams, might as well make it FFA if any class/race combo can be on a team.

[Aenor]

New sig for great justice. Here's the thing about the lopsided hard code vs. soft code poll. There's a lot of Sullon Zek alumni on these boards. It was a very hardcore ruleset, and people who subject themselves to those types of extremes tend to still be around 11 years later trying to get an elf simulator to take them back to that experience.

But here's the thing about all the vocal Sullon Zek fans. YOU'RE ALREADY HERE. P99 doesn't need to cater to your expectations because you're already here and, despite any protestations you may make on these boards, you are not going anywhere. The devs don't have to worry about losing the 100 neckbeards who play PvP here regularly. What they have to worry about are the 100s of potential other players who lurk but don't post on these boards constantly.

History has shown that Race War was a vastly superior ruleset to SZ. If you build it, they will come devs.

[Fawqueue]

New sig for great justice. Here's the thing about the lopsided hard code vs. soft code poll. There's a lot of Sullon Zek alumni on these boards. It was a very hardcore ruleset, and people who subject themselves to those types of extremes tend to still be around 11 years later trying to get an elf simulator to take them back to that experience.

But here's the thing about all the vocal Sullon Zek fans. YOU'RE ALREADY HERE. P99 doesn't need to cater to your expectations because you're already here and, despite any protestations you may make on these boards, you are not going anywhere. The devs don't have to worry about losing the 100 neckbeards who play PvP here regularly. What they have to worry about are the 100s of potential other players who lurk but don't post on these boards constantly.

History has shown that Race War was a vastly superior ruleset to SZ. If you build it, they will come devs.

Did not play on either VZ, TZ, or SZ on live. Still voted hard-coded, because soft-coding seems lame in every instance I've read about it. There is no lurking pool of soft-coded fans out there avoiding this poll: hard-coded wins by a landslide.

However, I'm open to any of the team arrangements. Race war or diety, I don't particularly care as long as there's some meaning to your team choice.

[Dullah]

so in 5+ months the pvp will be like red99.

0masss pvp and dead as fuck?

no1 wants to pick a faction at character select screen, people want to fight good vs evil.

that was the fun thing about teams, might as well make it FFA if any class/race combo can be on a team.

Lets pretend last month there wasn't mass pvp over VS multiple times 60+ in attendance and fights over trakanon every 3 days with 50-60+ in the zone every time. Definitely wasn't smaller skirmishes over dracho and talendor also.

Keep spinning that propaganda tho, champ.

[Blackbilly]

cross buffing /healing is wack

[s1ckness]

Lets pretend last month there wasn't mass pvp over VS multiple times 60+ in attendance and fights over trakanon every 3 days with 50-60+ in the zone every time. Definitely wasn't smaller skirmishes over dracho and talendor also.

Keep spinning that propaganda tho, champ.

sorry, there has been about 6 or 7 mass pvp fights in the last year.

mybad

maybe if u didnt recruite everyone on the server, u would have some mass pvp

[Lowlife]

http://cookingwithgrass.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/swedish-meatballs.jpg

[Junkman]

sorry, there has been about 6 or 7 mass pvp fights in the last year.

mybad

maybe if u didnt recruite everyone on the server, u would have some mass pvp


not sure if i even see you online ever , 60 yet?

[heartbrand]

not sure if i even see you online ever , 60 yet?

Could say the same about you 8)

[Itap]

Hard coded. Nobody wants cross team healing/buffing.

Jesus where to begin...

The idea that Teams99 will promote pvp is completely flawed. Let me explain what will happen on T99.

- First 2 months pvp will be great.
- The next 3-4 months most people will migrate to the side who has the most people. Pvp will start to shrink.
- 5+ months in there will be no mass pvp. The only pvp will be people who roll chars on the side with the less people knowing they will have alot of targets to gank. Those pvp fights will be gank, zone, log type of fights.

Right now with an average pop of 150 on R99 there are about 70 pvp kills per night. That is a 46% of kills to player pop per day.

I will bet you any amount of money that in 6+ months on T99 that number will be FAR less. Meaning less pvp... which is the so called goal of T99.


Why not solve this merge issue and balance issue now and allow players to choose their team at character creation?

Jesus Christ, you take this game way too fucking seriously.

[runlvlzero]

http://cookingwithgrass.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/swedish-meatballs.jpg

P.S. Don't argue with crazy people. Do you go down to your local lockup to debate the merits of socialism vs capitalism with your local drunks, druggies, and lunatics?

nah nah... leave Elderan alone.

[Something'Witty]

if guilds were split up, yes people would be very butthurt for a few weeks and QQ their faces off, sure. BUT the guilds will just have them reroll and PL them back to 60 in that time. and so the problem with hardcoding is resolved in a few weeks, but the problems associated with softcoding will stay with the server and last forever.

Sirken & Staff,

It isn't just guilds you have to consider, friends and family will be split apart. I started on R99 in March, and have a 58 DE chanter & 47 human monk. My wife has a 53 Barb shm & 55 WE druid. My RL friend Brrem has a 49 peck druid & 45 iksar Necro. My RL friend Jeyct has a 60 iksar monk (just hit 60 yesterday; grats again dude!) & a 20 something iksar necro, and his GF has 20 something gnome wizzy.

If teams are hardcoded and no race / alignment change is allowed, we will be split up, period. If teams are softcoded, then we get to watch our friends occasionally die in PvP with no ability to help, we can only join cross teaming guilds, and really none of the issues that would prompt a switch from FFA to a teams rule set would be resolved. I played on VZ for years, and once cross teaming became rampant, I always regretted not starting on RZ.

Long story short, we will all be split up and do not have the resources (time, plat, gear) to just PL each other and be back to where we currently are in a few weeks if we rerolled. While I support the hardcoded teams rule set, I urge the staff to consider a one time race change, alignment change, or ability to select a team for all R99 players if R99 is merged with T99. Please don't make us regret being a part of P99, it has been a lot of fun and we want to continue playing, especially together.

~Thanks for your time, hard work, and soliciting input from the community.


P.S. I favor keeping the FFA rule set, but since it looks like T99 is coming, my efforts are now being redirected at optimizing the situation, at least for me and my friends n' family.

[Swish]

http://i.minus.com/jbrAiDB3niIHMs.jpg

(posted with my typewriter)

[runlvlzero]

http://i.minus.com/jbrAiDB3niIHMs.jpg

(posted with my typewriter)

[Lowlife]

for everyone QQing about the merge, start realigning your characters and PLing them now

[tomato2]

teams are gay, not voting

[Chronoburn]

Hard coded. Reasons why are already mentioned ITT.

A soft coded teams server would result in the same shitfest that is Red99.

[lethdar]

Hard coded only viable option,

Unless everyone wants to hear the tears of xteaming invulnerable healers healing griefers all day.

[Technique]

Allow the player to choose team a/b/c on character creation... Its so simple. Given that P99 can only indirectly modify the EQ client (and in a very limited fashion at that), it wouldn't be a simple matter to divorce team choice from character creation, where the selection of race/class/deity would normally determine it.

Instead they'd need to create custom quest NPCs (a la Priest of Discord) through which you could choose your team in-game following creation. They could even expand this by introducing quests that enabled you to change your team by leveraging pre-existing mechanics such as faction and whatnot.

[Lowlife]

OR you could devise a system in which strategy, decisions, and choices matter

[Lowlife]

There needs to be distinction between teams, and the easiest way to do is by restricting classes that don't make sense within the construct of that team. If it's based on deity, then Evil shouldn't have access to Paladins, Rangers, and Druids but should have access to Evil-aligned classes. It fits the lore and gives people who like the feel of that setting a choice that is different from the others. And as I've said in other posts, we need our decisions to be meaningful. If I know there are positive and negative consequences to my team decision, I will take it seriously and care which one I decide to become a member of. Otherwise, I'll be choosing indifferently, at random, and it won't really matter.

Will there be 100% balance between all three teams? No, but EverQuest wasn't designed that way to begin with, so I think trying to focus too heavily and giving everyone everything is foolish. Guild Wars 2 is a great example of how every team having identical classes for PvP gets boring really quickly. So Race War, Deity, Rep-yo-City...it doesn't matter. Just give each team some unique flavor, let those teams develop tactics centered around their individual strengths and weaknesses, and lets enjoy ourselves.

[Technique]

OR you could devise a system in which strategy, decisions, and choices matterThat already exists in an FFA environment, but unfortunately there're so many pitifully dysfunctional people in this community that the staff believes they should be given a system to assign and enforce their in-game relationships for them.

[pharmakos]

Given that P99 can only indirectly modify the EQ client (and in a very limited fashion at that), it wouldn't be a simple matter to divorce team choice from character creation, where the selection of race/class/deity would normally determine it.

Instead they'd need to create custom quest NPCs (a la Priest of Discord) through which you could choose your team in-game following creation. They could even expand this by introducing quests that enabled you to change your team by leveraging pre-existing mechanics such as faction and whatnot.

they could probably just put in a command like /setteam A

don't let people level past a certain point without picking a team

[Aenor]

Did not play on either VZ, TZ, or SZ on live. Still voted hard-coded, because soft-coding seems lame in every instance I've read about it.

The flaw of polls like this. Peeps with no direct experience are allowed to vote. :D

[Aenor]

That already exists in an FFA environment, but unfortunately there're so many pitifully dysfunctional people in this community that the staff believes they should be given a system to assign and enforce their in-game relationships for them.

QFT, QED, whatever

[canardvc]

Voted hard coded : Cross healing / buffing / teaming ? No thanks.

[HippoNipple]

This poll just ensured that Nihilum will be re rolling all neutral/good characters on red99 so they can preserve their guild once teams merges.

Sorry battle, looks like you gotta remake a DE cleric.

[s1ckness]

nilly will probably go evil

[Fawqueue]

The flaw of polls like this. Peeps with no direct experience are allowed to vote. :D

It's called objectivity.

Besides, we need everyone voting in this thread. Veterans of both systems and veterans of EQ who hadn't tried the teams servers. We'll get a more accurate picture of what the entire community wants, and at least one group of voters won't be all fanboi'd up on whatever system they played in a decade ago.

[Smedy]

I hope to black and never go back, If i roll erudite yall better watch the fuck out, i always play the type of character i'm associated with, gnomes are trustworthy, so are ogres, they ain't evil, just missunderstood, erudite however, i'll grief your children and rape your mother

Gotta keep it real son

[Nytch]

Old SZ player (Newt Team), Hard coded made people actually want to help each other because it helped out the team in the long run, it also made people a little apprehensive about being idiots to one another because if you ruined your rep you literally had to re roll because everyone knew not to group or guild with you. People having to start form level one makes them think a little bit before they ninja loot a FBSS or some other pixel from a group.

[Lowlife]

Old SZ player (Newt Team), Hard coded made people actually want to help each other because it helped out the team in the long run, it also made people a little apprehensive about being idiots to one another because if you ruined your rep you literally had to re roll because everyone knew not to group or guild with you. People having to start form level one makes them think a little bit before they ninja loot a FBSS or some other pixel from a group.

How can we balance teams so that the good team, for instance, isn't vastly under represented as compared to the evil team?

[Elderan]

nilly will probably go evil

Hard to say at this point. We will wait until the rules are announced.

We will have at least 9 months to adjust as needed though before the merge and possibly much longer.

I still hope they setup teams so every team has access to ever class.

[Lowlife]

We will have at least 9 months to adjust as needed though before the merge and possibly much longer.

I still hope they setup teams so every team has access to ever class.

http://rack.1.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDEzLzA2LzE4LzYwL1N0YXJUcmVrLjczZDlhLmdpZgpwCX RodW1iCTEyMDB4OTYwMD4/c8a37435/f01/Star-Trek.gif

Official nilly reaction to teams threads.

[Retti_]

Samwise all "SZ or bust"








Bust inc









im not trying to be a dick, but SZ really was (statistically) the absolute worst server (red or blue) in the history or EverQuest. the SZ community/mentality is the #1 reason people people dont stay (ie: quit) on Red99. why on earth would we try to emulate such a horrible server?

Lol @ people asking for no pvp lvl range and training

[Lowlife]

Lol @ people asking for no pvp lvl range and training

Exactly, and somehow that will translate into 300 people in Nek and in Crushbone like on live.

delusional.

[Kergan]

As has been stated by the majority of people, hard coding accomplishes two major things:

1. Eliminates several griefing opportunities.
2. Helps truly divide the teams.

I just see a soft coded solution as getting messy. In what other competition can someone on another team intentionally help you without repercussion? What possible legitimate reason would you have to heal or buff someone on an opposing team?

[socialist]

I hope to black and never go back, If i roll erudite yall better watch the fuck out, i always play the type of character i'm associated with, gnomes are trustworthy, so are ogres, they ain't evil, just missunderstood, erudite however, i'll grief your children and rape your mother

Gotta keep it real son

http://i.imgur.com/gwIWaBq.jpg

[Kergan]

Because the SZ ruleset doesn't promote pvp, it promotes grief. Because the SZ server had the smallest population of any of the EQ servers. because most of the people that switched from red to blue did so because of the community on red.

i agree with you that 3 hard coded teams is the best. i just don't agree with the training, or the complete lack of PNP, or the no lvl limit PvP. none of those things promote a healthy community/population.

the ruleset will be decided by the staff. And just as we always do, we will consider player suggestions/feedback.

as far as how much weight "my word" has, who knows. i'm simply disagreeing with you on this subject, albeit very, very adamantly, because i wholeheartedly disagree with your assessment.

but since you are being serious, i apologize for my previous trollish replies to your Pro-SZ rhetoric. if you make good arguments, the sky is the limit

<3

I think in retrospect, a lot of the "no play nice" stuff was laziness by the live team staff. Clearly we have a chance to do better by not being restricted to mirroring a classic ruleset.

I'm as big a supporter of SZ as you'll find, having played there for the majority of my EQ Live career (and RZ before that). But the ability to train anyone, anywhere is how raid level zone control was established. That's garbage. Obviously training isn't a good option in a zone with a bunch of level 30-40 mobs, but in raid zones where mobs hurt it's how it was done. Speedd single-handedly kept the rest of the server out of zones for months.

Another lapse in judgement that I feel was due to laziness by the live dev team was no PVP level range. It's just easier to say anyone can kill anyone, any time then dealing with things like out of range healers in an elegant way. It doesn't have to be complicated, maybe there is an engagement timer when you cast a spell/melee on someone or are hit by a spell/melee from someone and if anyone casts a beneficial spell on a player actively engaged they are flagged for combat from any level range. Almost how UO did the red/blue flags.

I think we need to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater here, there are certainly some changes to the SZ ruleset that need to be made but there is a lot to like as well.

I think this poll question is a step in the right direction of asking the right questions. Maybe next we should determine exactly how many teams people want? Are 2 teams the right amount with this server population? 3? 4? Getting into details of class/race/deity restrictions is probably a step beyond where we should be right now. Let's start at the base and work our way up.

[RoguePhantom]

Hardcoded teams is the only way to go. It prevents the ease of 'cross teaming' which was rampant on every server. Hard coded teams also means I can use my bard AE Mana Drains or casting Rain spells on our own team at the zonin without killing them while waiting for the inevitable zerg.

SZ will always hold a fond place in my heart. The lack of PNP and enabling of training led to the server with the most... events. You never had one guild that could strangle hold a server. Sure Evil had a distinct advantage, but at the end, it was about knowing your class, knowing the opposition and mainly... having enough targets around that one guild CANT be everywhere.

[Kergan]

You never had one guild that could strangle hold a server. Sure Evil had a distinct advantage, but at the end, it was about knowing your class, knowing the opposition and mainly... having enough targets around that one guild CANT be everywhere.

You're kidding right? Hate (and Ruin before them) had a bigger stranglehold on that server than TMO or Nihilum have here, and with dozens more raid targets. Through PoP neutral never made it to the elemental planes and barely touched VT. Goods had it even worse...ask Nizzar. Did the good team ever kill any raid target in the current tier in the first 2 years of that server?

Neutral was pretty much held to raiding current content several tiers behind, Velious targets, etc. Luclin and PoP were pretty much the easiest expansions ever to control as everything had huge timesink key entry (VT) or "achievement" based progression (PoP). You could choke off entire tiers of content or entire raid zones by cockblocking a single mob like Emperor Ssra.

In every sense we do NOT want T99 to turn out anything like SZ did from a competitive standpoint. As Hate held exclusive access to more and more content as expansions were released their gear advantage grew. This led to good/neutral people quitting or rerolling evil perpetuating the advantage.

The only way other teams were able to compete was to pay the $40 transfer fee to go to Legends, get geared there off instanced content and then transfer back. That of course is not an option here.

[Nytch]

You're kidding right? Hate (and Ruin before them) had a bigger stranglehold on that server than TMO or Nihilum have here, and with dozens more raid targets. Through PoP neutral never made it to the elemental planes and barely touched VT. Goods had it even worse...ask Nizzar. Did the good team ever kill any raid target in the current tier in the first 2 years of that server?

Neutral was pretty much held to raiding current content several tiers behind, Velious targets, etc. Luclin and PoP were pretty much the easiest expansions ever to control as everything had huge timesink key entry (VT) or "achievement" based progression (PoP). You could choke off entire tiers of content or entire raid zones by cockblocking a single mob like Emperor Ssra.

In every sense we do NOT want T99 to turn out anything like SZ did from a competitive standpoint. As Hate held exclusive access to more and more content as expansions were released their gear advantage grew. This led to good/neutral people quitting or rerolling evil perpetuating the advantage.

The only way other teams were able to compete was to pay the $40 transfer fee to go to Legends, get geared there off instanced content and then transfer back. That of course is not an option here.

Newt's constantly raided VT. Other than that your post is 100% accurate. Especially when they started giving Speedd DKP for training our raids. I do also remember downing Rallos Zek to gain access into the elemental planes (only happened once that I can remember so we couldn't do anything in the elemental plains)

[Chronoburn]

You're kidding right? Hate (and Ruin before them) had a bigger stranglehold on that server than TMO or Nihilum have here, and with dozens more raid targets. Through PoP neutral never made it to the elemental planes and barely touched VT. Goods had it even worse...ask Nizzar. Did the good team ever kill any raid target in the current tier in the first 2 years of that server?

Neutral was pretty much held to raiding current content several tiers behind, Velious targets, etc. Luclin and PoP were pretty much the easiest expansions ever to control as everything had huge timesink key entry (VT) or "achievement" based progression (PoP). You could choke off entire tiers of content or entire raid zones by cockblocking a single mob like Emperor Ssra.

In every sense we do NOT want T99 to turn out anything like SZ did from a competitive standpoint. As Hate held exclusive access to more and more content as expansions were released their gear advantage grew. This led to good/neutral people quitting or rerolling evil perpetuating the advantage.

The only way other teams were able to compete was to pay the $40 transfer fee to go to Legends, get geared there off instanced content and then transfer back. That of course is not an option here.

Post is pretty accurate but some things need to be considered. Velious was already out when SZ launched. <Ruin> poopsocked straight for epics/ToV and never looked back (They never pvp'd until they were rocking NTov gear). This was historical poopsocking. I know some of there members were replacing banded with HoT gear.

A progression based team server having such a small community would hopefully never allow this.

[Kergan]

Neutral didn't do anything in VP during Luclin though, only after Hate had essentially moved on to the upper PoP tiers and left Speedd to defend the place solo. VT was such a mistake of a zone, you pretty much had to hit the elemental planes before the loot was better. So easy to train too.

[Lartanin63]

Trolls dont hold hand with elves. They eat em. It is the way if is meant to be.

[Zade]

for the record, ive stopped ultramodding this thread ;) Thanks for all the input. rant on

[Nytch]

Post is pretty accurate but some things need to be considered. Velious was already out when SZ launched. <Ruin> poopsocked straight for epics/ToV and never looked back (They never pvp'd until they were rocking NTov gear). This was historical poopsocking. I know some of there members were replacing banded with HoT gear.

A progression based team server having such a small community would hopefully never allow this.

Chronoburn, you bringing back tides on t99?

[Kergan]

SZ was supposedly very low population by the time Ruin rose to prominence (which was early). Very good point about Velious being out, but do we know for a fact that isn't going to happen with T99?

And Chrono, if you bring ToW back and coax Draganov out of retirement I'm in! I hit him up a few months ago to see if he'd be interested in R99 but alas, he has retired from MMOs.

[limit]

Hardcoded or there really is no point.

[Zade]

no one is reading any of these threads btw

thanks for reading

[Chronoburn]

Chronoburn, you bringing back tides on t99?

Would be pretty cool but if ToW comes back, it won't be because of me. I'm in contact with maybe 10 people from ToW, half of which you see on these forums. Plus, I'm way too casual now but T99 may change that.

SZ was supposedly very low population by the time Ruin rose to prominence (which was early). Very good point about Velious being out, but do we know for a fact that isn't going to happen with T99?

I hope there is some sort of progression on T99 but I don't think its been stated anywhere whether or not T99 will follow some sort of time table. It would be a mistake to release with Velious. I don't think it would be a huge issue to release with Kunark though.

[RoguePhantom]

You're kidding right? Hate (and Ruin before them) had a bigger stranglehold on that server than TMO or Nihilum have here, and with dozens more raid targets. Through PoP neutral never made it to the elemental planes and barely touched VT. Goods had it even worse...ask Nizzar. Did the good team ever kill any raid target in the current tier in the first 2 years of that server?

Neutral was pretty much held to raiding current content several tiers behind, Velious targets, etc. Luclin and PoP were pretty much the easiest expansions ever to control as everything had huge timesink key entry (VT) or "achievement" based progression (PoP). You could choke off entire tiers of content or entire raid zones by cockblocking a single mob like Emperor Ssra.

In every sense we do NOT want T99 to turn out anything like SZ did from a competitive standpoint. As Hate held exclusive access to more and more content as expansions were released their gear advantage grew. This led to good/neutral people quitting or rerolling evil perpetuating the advantage.

The only way other teams were able to compete was to pay the $40 transfer fee to go to Legends, get geared there off instanced content and then transfer back. That of course is not an option here.

If you take training out of the Equation, SZ ruleset is perfect for the crowd that WANTS to play Red99 as a PvP server, not as a secondary Blue box.

Neuts, who I was with from the beginning, were behind. But Neutral to Evil was never as bad as Nihi vs Server is here on Red99 (Yes, Goods were so far behind, but that was due to no strong guilds/players). Sure Speedd with MQ and Warping (and others from Neuts, myself included) were able to stop raids. But you take straining and MQ out of the equation, T99 with no limit PVP will work fine with Velious.

Velious is the FIRST expansion when EQ could truly support a PvP server. There simply isn't enough content for teams to progress through and stay relevant. One team can lock down the entire server (Look at Mage/Wizard Epics and all stuff off of CT/Inny that Nihi has on complete lockdown) when there are only a few GOOD Raid targets. Velious was able to add many more targets, and the gear "Tier" was not that hard to overcome. Kunark/Epics were still very very competitive with Velious gear (Got real out of hand during high Tier PoP/PoTime zones) and no one team could lock everything down.

You talk about people quitting/rerolling from Good/Neut to evil, but more people have jumped onto Nihi than ever quit SZ because of gear/guild advantage.

[Kergan]

If you take training out of the Equation, SZ ruleset is perfect for the crowd that WANTS to play Red99 as a PvP server, not as a secondary Blue box.

Neuts, who I was with from the beginning, were behind. But Neutral to Evil was never as bad as Nihi vs Server is here on Red99 (Yes, Goods were so far behind, but that was due to no strong guilds/players). Sure Speedd with MQ and Warping (and others from Neuts, myself included) were able to stop raids. But you take straining and MQ out of the equation, T99 with no limit PVP will work fine with Velious.

Velious is the FIRST expansion when EQ could truly support a PvP server. There simply isn't enough content for teams to progress through and stay relevant. One team can lock down the entire server (Look at Mage/Wizard Epics and all stuff off of CT/Inny that Nihi has on complete lockdown) when there are only a few GOOD Raid targets. Velious was able to add many more targets, and the gear "Tier" was not that hard to overcome. Kunark/Epics were still very very competitive with Velious gear (Got real out of hand during high Tier PoP/PoTime zones) and no one team could lock everything down.

You talk about people quitting/rerolling from Good/Neut to evil, but more people have jumped onto Nihi than ever quit SZ because of gear/guild advantage.

I don't think removing training would have done much. Hate would have just used force to hold the choke points. As much as Speedd did to hold down the good/neutral teams, training actually benefited neutral more than anyone. They didn't have the numbers and gear to take anything by force from Hate.

And the only reason SZ didn't end up exactly like R99 is because of the hard coded teams. Had neutral/good people been able to freely move into Hate it would have been Nihilum on steroids there. As it was, Hate still controlled the end game content to a Nihilum/TMO like level and that was with probably 10 times the raid content in the PoP era.

I think we can all agree we wouldn't want T99 to turn out like either SZ or R99 correct?

[ChubbyBubbles]

Trolls dont hold hand with elves. They eat em. It is the way if is meant to be.

[Nytch]

I don't think removing training would have done much. Hate would have just used force to hold the choke points. As much as Speedd did to hold down the good/neutral teams, training actually benefited neutral more than anyone. They didn't have the numbers and gear to take anything by force from Hate.

And the only reason SZ didn't end up exactly like R99 is because of the hard coded teams. Had neutral/good people been able to freely move into Hate it would have been Nihilum on steroids there. As it was, Hate still controlled the end game content to a Nihilum/TMO like level and that was with probably 10 times the raid content in the PoP era.

I think we can all agree we wouldn't want T99 to turn out like either SZ or R99 correct?

You are basing your statement on PoP era content. Hate was able to lock down end game content in PoP because all they had to do was train 1 encounter (Rallos Zek) over and over again to make it so the Neutral team could not get flagged into the elemental planes. I remember plenty of PvP wars in Velious/Luclin against Hate that ended up with them retreating into PoP zones that we couldn't chase them into and them sending Speedd in to just straight train our raids until we left. On a Velious Timeline PvP will be much more relevant if training is taken away because nothing is keyed except Sleepers Tomb and TOFS I believe? There will be no flagged content to hide behind everything will be up for grabs.

I'm not saying we didn't benefit by being able to train but if it is taken away without flagged zones to hide in PvP will be much more relevant and equal.

Remember those top end guild (Hate for example) spend all their time poopsocking and gearing up, but when it comes time for real PvP they have little to no skill that the other teams had. Having gear is one thing, but not knowing what to in PvP will level the playing field for the "under geared" team who knows how to actually PvP.

[Kergan]

You are basing your statement on PoP era content. Hate was able to lock down end game content in PoP because all they had to do was train 1 encounter (Rallos Zek) over and over again to make it so the Neutral team could not get flagged into the elemental planes. I remember plenty of PvP wars in Velious/Luclin against Hate that ended up with them retreating into PoP zones that we couldn't chase them into and them sending Speedd in to just straight train our raids until we left. On a Velious Timeline PvP will be much more relevant if training is taken away because nothing is keyed except Sleepers Tomb and TOFS I believe? There will be no flagged content to hide behind everything will be up for grabs.

I'm not saying we didn't benefit by being able to train but if it is taken away without flagged zones to hide in PvP will be much more relevant and equal.

Remember those top end guild (Hate for example) spend all their time poopsocking and gearing up, but when it comes time for real PvP they have little to no skill that the other teams had. Having gear is one thing, but not knowing what to in PvP will level the playing field for the "under geared" team who knows how to actually PvP.

That's such a cop out. I played on the server man. Hate was just as good at PVP as ToW. ToW spent just as much time trying to get gear as Hate. I played in <Nine> which had several top ToW PVPers in it including Draganov and Deas before they switched to neutral because of their disdain for Hate. There were skilled players on both sides of the fence and neither side held any significant advantage in the "skill" department.

I just get really sick of the argument (and it's used against Nihilum here) that because they are able to raid PVE content it automatically makes them bad at PVP. This game doesn't require skill to PVP to begin with, and many of the same things that make you strong in the PVE game (leadership, ability to follow directions, coming up with strategies, organization and gear) make you strong in the PVP game as well.

So can we finally put that tired, completely unprovable and frankly whiney argument to bed forever?

[runlvlzero]

It sounds like you all are pretty mad and should give blue a try.

[Danien]

Not allowing training is a huge matter in improving player experience. It is especially relevant in velious given how easy it is to gain faction with the majority of the raidzones.

[Nytch]

That's such a cop out. I played on the server man. Hate was just as good at PVP as ToW. ToW spent just as much time trying to get gear as Hate. I played in <Nine> which had several top ToW PVPers in it including Draganov and Deas before they switched to neutral because of their disdain for Hate. There were skilled players on both sides of the fence and neither side held any significant advantage in the "skill" department.

I just get really sick of the argument (and it's used against Nihilum here) that because they are able to raid PVE content it automatically makes them bad at PVP. This game doesn't require skill to PVP to begin with, and many of the same things that make you strong in the PVE game (leadership, ability to follow directions, coming up with strategies, organization and gear) make you strong in the PVP game as well.

So can we finally put that tired, completely unprovable and frankly whiney argument to bed forever?

I don't remember <Nine> so I can't speak to them, however I also can't remember more than a hand full of instances where Hate was able to beat any other guild in PvP with an equal number of players on both sides even with superior gear. I don't argue that Hate had many skilled PvPers, but I also remember a majority of the guild being straight PVE having never seen PVP before because they were leveled/geared up from level 1 thus making them worthless in PvP if a war ever broke out, whereas the Neutral/Good teams grew up getting griefed from level 1 so they had to learn how to PvP to survive.

My post was more geared toward the fact that no one will be able to hide behind flagged zones and gear up like Hate was able to do in PoP thus making both PVE and PvP on more equal grounds.

[Kergan]

I don't remember <Nine> so I can't speak to them, however I also can't remember more than a hand full of instances where Hate was able to beat any other guild in PvP with an equal number of players on both sides even with superior gear. I don't argue that Hate had many skilled PvPers, but I also remember a majority of the guild being straight PVE having never seen PVP before because they were leveled/geared up from level 1 thus making them worthless in PvP if a war ever broke out, whereas the Neutral/Good teams grew up getting griefed from level 1 so they had to learn how to PvP to survive.

My post was more geared toward the fact that no one will be able to hide behind flagged zones and gear up like Hate was able to do in PoP thus making both PVE and PvP on more equal grounds.

It is amazing how people remember things. I cannot recall a single occasion where we lost to ToW in group PVP (we'll say 10+ on both sides). I guess just a matter of perspective, as I am sure it happened on multiple occasions. Again, PVP in this game is not a skill based system. You could take any random decent player off a blue server and turn them into a good pvper in a day or two.

And there are flagged zones in every expansion, although obviously Rallos was the big clockblock and there is nothing to that level pre-luclin.

[Nytch]

It is amazing how people remember things. I cannot recall a single occasion where we lost to ToW in group PVP (we'll say 10+ on both sides). I guess just a matter of perspective, as I am sure it happened on multiple occasions. Again, PVP in this game is not a skill based system. You could take any random decent player off a blue server and turn them into a good pvper in a day or two.

And there are flagged zones in every expansion, although obviously Rallos was the big clockblock and there is nothing to that level pre-luclin.

Okay so agreed to disagree and I'll see you on t99.

[Kergan]

Okay so agreed to disagree and I'll see you on t99.

Hopefully soon!

[Chronoburn]

ToW > Hate until PoP (PvP)... kind of hard to beat 3 instant kill classes and melee's with Time Daggers and Plankton Laced Greatswords.

Most ToW core players were offered Hate accounts during the velious/luclin era ... I'm not sure why but probably to ensure pixels/pvp would come easy.

[Snufz]

Dirty newt.

[Danien]

It is amazing how people remember things. I cannot recall a single occasion where we lost to ToW in group PVP (we'll say 10+ on both sides). I guess just a matter of perspective, as I am sure it happened on multiple occasions. Again, PVP in this game is not a skill based system. You could take any random decent player off a blue server and turn them into a good pvper in a day or two.

And there are flagged zones in every expansion, although obviously Rallos was the big clockblock and there is nothing to that level pre-luclin.

There was a pretty brutal fight in Sirens Grotto.

[Darksinga]

Hard Coded and you can only be on one team per account.

Make it as difficult as possible for some one to change sides/etc/add suggestions here to go along with this idea.

[Weekapaug]

Hard coded to avoid cross teaming, as pretty much everyone else has said.

Personally I would have every team on a different common language besides, maybe, emotes for the sale reason.

[Rust1d?]

Hard-coded for sure. However, people can still make another character and "spy" on the other team. Not sure that anything could be done about that so I am sure there will be many spies running around and you cannot do anything to them.

[Nothxu]

If you did merge the servers though, you would need to find a way to not split up the guilds already formed on red 99 because they are in certain class / race combinations.

[Rararboker]

If you did merge the servers though, you would need to find a way to not split up the guilds already formed on red 99 because they are in certain class / race combinations.

You can't do both hardcoded and that.....

[Fawqueue]

I'm sure I'm pointing out the obvious, but is it interesting to anyone else how the "let us merge with our guild intact" crowd is almost entirely Nihilum members?

I'm not mentioning this as a knock on them in any way, but they are fighting really hard for this. Maybe they just enjoy their current guildmates so much they can't stomach being parted. Or maybe they are a little concerned they can't recreate their Red success without a guarantee that their uncontested raid toons will be joining the mix. I'd be interested in seeing some honest feedback from those guys.

[Old_PVP]

Hard coded teams all the way. There should be no other option but to KILL your enemy. Also remove common tongue, force people to learn languages outside of their own team.

To hell with the eventual merge idea, let Red99 and all their ill-gotten pixels burn. Start fresh, and keep it that way. Do not contaminate Teams99 with Red99 bluebie loots. Let the tears flow.

[Eslade]

Hard coded, maximizes roleplay and prevents easy mega guilds. I also vote 2 characters per account, and if possible 1 account per IP.

[Lowlife]

To hell with the eventual merge idea, let Red99 and all their ill-gotten pixels burn. Start fresh, and keep it that way. Do not contaminate Teams99 with Red99 bluebie loots. Let the tears flow.

[Dullah]

Hard coded teams all the way. There should be no other option but to KILL your enemy. Also remove common tongue, force people to learn languages outside of their own team.

To hell with the eventual merge idea, let Red99 and all their ill-gotten pixels burn. Start fresh, and keep it that way. Do not contaminate Teams99 with Red99 bluebie loots. Let the tears flow.

http://i.imgur.com/r49SGwb.png

[Bazia]

we get it u have leveled 6 level 60s here and are mad the staff are going to open another server

[Dullah]

We will be stomping you on teams even easier than we did on r99.

After teams fails and is merged into red, I'll have at least 3 new level 60s (in each faction) to add to my previous 15 level 60s.

http://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/a/image/1332/77/1332772349866.jpg

[Silikten]

Thats gross you drink tears