Hate Generation Value from Staff of Temperate Flux?

[Lojik]

So I've seen a lot of threads with breakdowns of hate generated by certain procs. Anyone have an exact number for hate generation from one click of this staff?

[Tuljin]

i dont know a specific number but its so low that a single melee hit from anybody will draw agro away from you. i will pull with flux staff and have a melee intercept the mob with a single melee attack and the agro will snap to them (pet as well). the hate number is probably 1.

[Lojik]

There is no way that the hate value is as low as one. I would think something like 50 at least. If the hate value were one I would literally have to click the staff hundreds of times to hold aggro over someone meleeing. As it is I can draw aggro away from pretty much anyone just by clicking the staff, and I can aggro kite with a melee partner and click the staff probably 10-15 times and hold aggro for most of the fight (at least I could around level 51, haven't done it since then.)

[Tuljin]

hm idk what the number is but its damn low =) its tough to hold agro with flux staff when people start meleeing, you have to stun to do that. once other people start hitting i dont even bother fluxing to peel agro away i stun, ive spammed flux staff a shitload and its damn near impossible to peel agro with just the flux staff when a group is on a mob.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Wizard/Rogue is a fairly popular combo because of agro kiting and usually I see them just spamming flux staff. Do most of them cast a stun after the snare before spamming or is snare+Flux strong enough to hold agro?

[Lojik]

Just snare + staff

[Lojik]

Well I just did a brief test with a Necro. Cast chill bones on a sarnak berzerker, I was able to pull aggro away with 2 staff clicks. Not sure what this means. Sorry it wasn't more extensive...maybe later.

FWIW the few times I grouped in seb I would use the staff to pull aggro off mobs that broke charm or aggroed clerics on heals, was pretty damn quick to pull them off.

[Velerin]

The staff seems to work differently here than live (though all spell hate seems to be >>> melee hate here). On live the staff is an awesome pulling tool but I could spam as fast as I could click and I'd never pull aggro off others doing any damage.

[Lojik]

The staff seems to work differently here than live (though all spell hate seems to be >>> melee hate here). On live the staff is an awesome pulling tool but I could spam as fast as I could click and I'd never pull aggro off others doing any damage.

I personally don't remember how much it taunted on live. A quick google search however revealed many posts from around 2001 where wizards claim it is a great taunt item.

Also found a post that said it was usable by non-wizards until sometime in 2001, but can't always rely on these posts as solid evidence. Even if it was "classic" for non-wizards to be able to use this item, I can only imagine how game breaking it would be on this server.

[Tuljin]

Flux staff (and arrow/thrown item) has a smaller agro radius than a spell or facepull - I know multiple specific mobs in certain zones that can be pulled without other mob agro by flux staff but facepulling you will catch other mob agro. The elemental debuff is not for nothing either, its worth using it on every mob you are going to cast elemental nuke on even at lvl 60

I would have to test using flux staff to pull agro off a broken charm - i always cast tishan's discord/clash when someone's pet breaks so they have time to re-charm it without getting completely plowed by a weaponized, hasted pet. next time someone's pet breaks i'll spam flux staff and see how long it takes (and I'll have to let them know im testing flux staff agro so they don't get pissed at me) Also if a mob happens to start attacking the cleric or someone else sitting in camp i'll agro with stun to give the party member time to get away and I can deal with the mob until someone comes to tank it.

Flux staff is really for pulling and tagging (and is an incredible item for that) Its not that great at taunting/getting agro if a group is beating on a mob. If anyone in your group is getting hit or a charm breaks you should definitely use Tishan's (both clash and discord should be in your spell bar :P)

[Lojik]

Flux staff (and arrow/thrown item) has a smaller agro radius than a spell or facepull - I know multiple specific mobs in certain zones that can be pulled without other mob agro by flux staff but facepulling you will catch other mob agro.
In all honesty I don't know anything about aggro radius with different kinds of pulls.
The elemental debuff is not for nothing either, its worth using it on every mob you are going to cast elemental nuke on even at lvl 60
Have to completely disagree with this. The debuff is so small that it makes almost no difference, it can get resisted a fair amount, and the hate generation is too high. Unnecessary aggro needs to be avoided as a wizard
Also if a mob happens to start attacking the cleric or someone else sitting in camp i'll agro with stun to give the party member time to get away and I can deal with the mob until someone comes to tank it.
If you pull it off with flux staff you can park it somewhere else right away with root wherever you want, no need to wait
Its not that great at taunting/getting agro if a group is beating on a mob.
First of all, this is demonstrably false. Like I said the taunt value on this is much higher than you think, and you're the only wizard I've ever heard of saying this. When we took on DTing mobs as a lower level wizard I'd be able to get aggro (with no other spells) for the 2nd DT with about 5 clicks of the staff. The only problem was that sometimes I would end up getting aggro TOO early and get meleed to death before DT.

Second of all, if a group is beating on a mob why on earth would you want to take aggro as a wizard, unless you're trying to take DT or something?

If anyone in your group is getting hit or a charm breaks you should definitely use Tishan's (both clash and discord should be in your spell bar :P)
Think it just depends on the situation and who you're with.



Bottom line: If you stand there and chain whatever wizard spells you want and I spam the staff I'll hold aggro over you.

[Tuljin]

One good place i can think of to test the flux staff vs. facepull agro radius is the rock golem that spawns in the Hole right outside the castle looking building with the stone floor and the fountain that has the phantom healer (and tons of other mobs) which is the last big room before you get to the city. if you pull that mob with flux staff he will come by himself (make sure you pull the first mob righttt to the right corner after you go inside first) If you facepull this mob a ton of mobs inside the tower/castle thing will run out and its not easy to deal with.

EQ logic - anything free, clicky, and debuffs is worth using, even if its only 5 points. Flux staff works on all frogs in seb, all high level skeletons, and most (really all) planar mobs. Its okay to use because if you are gonna drop a nuke the mob is already pretty low on HP so you wont take agro.

I prefer stun over root first if anybody is getting hit because it saves them the person the probability of getting quadded by a tough mob and you can then hit it with a root while its stunned, or you can get a head start and pull it away and root it somewhere safe. Also if a caster mob turns and begins to cast a spell on someone you can stun it out and either root it out of LOS or you can keep it pretty far away from you and force it to cast and keep interrupting it with tishans clash/discord and draught of jiva. When the party gets to this mob youre dealing with you can hit it with concussion a couple times and the agro will go away.

You want to take agro as a wizard for a couple reasons - you can agro melees and kite them around a camp to park them somewhere safe so the rest of the group can deal with what else is going on. Wiz is excellent at off-tanking caster mobs by keeping them at distance and using interrupting spells. Wiz is also awesome at pulling mobs this way - get the caster mob to begin his cast, hit him with a stun to knock him out, and run back to camp - he wont cast again till he gets to camp. When a caster mob is in camp, you can keep casting stuns/interrupts and hold agro while the rest of the party is beating on it. if you are far enough away from the mob he will always start to cast, and you will be knocking out all the nasty spells he will be casting on the group, saving the healer mana, preventing slows/poisons, and if your saves are high (which they should be) you can get hit by a spell without much trouble. You can also keep the mob turned this way so the melees in the group will be hitting it from behind while the caster is trying to cast on you (the hallway in seb chef camp is good for this) If you get hit, the cleric only needs to hit you with a superior heal, even if youre only healed to 80% you will gain the rest back eventually.

Id have to mess with flux agro more in this situation, but really stuns are far more useful in dungeons when it comes to peeling mobs off and neutralizing threats. And if you reeeeeally want agro just hit a mob with a sunstrike when it has high hp =)

[Nixus]

Wizard/Rogue is a fairly popular combo because of agro kiting and usually I see them just spamming flux staff. Do most of them cast a stun after the snare before spamming or is snare+Flux strong enough to hold agro?

yes

[Tecmos Deception]

Well I just did a brief test with a Necro. Cast chill bones on a sarnak berzerker, I was able to pull aggro away with 2 staff clicks. Not sure what this means. Sorry it wasn't more extensive...maybe later.

FWIW the few times I grouped in seb I would use the staff to pull aggro off mobs that broke charm or aggroed clerics on heals, was pretty damn quick to pull them off.

I didn't see this mentioned anywhere in here so sorry if I missed it, but there is an aggro cap on the initial action taken to aggro a mob. You guys need to take that into consideration when trying to test the equivalent hate of things.

For example, Tecmos can pull a mob with tash and then a tank can pull off of me with a round of melee, because the aggro from tash was capped much lower than its true aggro. But if the tank pulled with the round of melee THEN I cast tash, I would be #1 on aggro list for a while.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

I didn't see this mentioned anywhere in here so sorry if I missed it, but there is an aggro cap on the initial action taken to aggro a mob. You guys need to take that into consideration when trying to test the equivalent hate of things.

For example, Tecmos can pull a mob with tash and then a tank can pull off of me with a round of melee, because the aggro from tash was capped much lower than its true aggro. But if the tank pulled with the round of melee THEN I cast tash, I would be #1 on aggro list for a while.

Definitely true and substantially more verifiable with spells like slow.

[Azlani]

> The staff seems to work differently here than live (though all spell hate seems to be melee hate here). On live the staff is an awesome pulling tool but I could spam as fast as I could click and I'd never pull aggro off others doing any damage.

On live, I was able to spam tstaff nonstop and often pull off other people, like clerics all through Kunark and Velious at least in the 1-50ish mobs. Perhaps behavior was changed afterwards?