R99 - 'Improving' Spell Casting

[Alecta]

As you can see from the patch notes, we've been revisiting some of the spell mechanics on R99.

We would prefer to keep these as classic as possible. Mechanics like LOS checks, channeling, water dancing, cast times, spell effect behaviors, resists etc. should be as classic / appropriate to the era as possible.

I know Null tried to balance things but I feel like should do that using the 'unknowns' (ie, resist formulas) rather than changing the 'knowns'.

Also, we're looking for community feedback, but particularly quality feedback. Saying "resists are broken" is less helpful than "ice comet always lands for full" is less helpful than saying "Ice comet landed for full in 8/10 casts at 200 CR when cast by an even con. Should be partialing for half that." We won't act on every bit of input, but the more the better.

We understand that a lot of this is going to lack hard evidence from 'live', but hopefully we can get to a place where most people are happy.

[Alecta]

Non-Classic Mechanics

You've had a chance to play with these, we want some feedback on whether or not they should stay in.

Soft LOS Check

Null created a system where if you had LOS on a player at the beginning of the detrimental spell and your target went out of LOS at the end of the cast, your spell wouldn't fail if the player was still within 70% of the spells range.

Personally, I feel like this is not a good thing. It reduces the importance of positioning and timing in dungeon pvp and it makes new players cry hax when they get nuked through walls. Thoughts?

Root and Snare Duration

Null also made it so root and snare do not have a chance to break on ticks. Instead if they land, they always land for the full duration. They only break on spell damage and melee damage. Melee damage has a (damage/5)% chance to break, so a 500 hp blow always breaks it, a 250 hp blow will have a 50% chance to break it, etc.

Personally, I think that by not giving it a chance to break on ticks, it further trivializes resists. And while I understand the logic behind the melee damage, that's not exactly classic.

Also, the Titanium Client has a 24 second snare cap for PvP that we are currently overriding. Any opinions on the 24 second cap with tic checks for snare?

[Alecta]

Resists

This is the area of greatest 'greyness' for R99, and so I am sure everyone will hate me no matter what I do.

Prior to this last patch, every PvP spell went through the same resist curve. Certain spell types had often rather large +resist modifiers added to them to shift the curve around, but it was the same curve.

So what we've done is add new 'PvP resist calculations' to the system, where we can tag individual spells (procs / poisons / bard songs) as having a particular resist calculation. Currently, we only have 3 implemented:


PvP Unresistible - used in Rapture, Splurt, Lifetaps, etc.
PvP Linear with Cap - used in Roots currently, lets us specific a point where the resists hit the 98% cap.
Default (Null's curve)


We're planning on adding some more such as :

One for rogue blinds - bit harder to resist than normal poison spells since they are 1 shot and require reagents, but with very nerfed partials so you aren't blinded or snared for 2 minutes.
One for stuns - perhaps taking into account the level of the spell for your class and level of the caster, so your highest level stun can land occasionally, but spamming 4 low level stuns wont keep people locked down.
One for non-lure DDs - which will predominately focus on the partial logic.


Any player feedback on spells or proposed resist functions is welcome.

Also, we've worked out a way to cap resists at 255, which isnt a huge deal at this point, but will be implemented prior to Velious, and should help keep things a little more manageable from a resist point of view.

[Rallyd]

Awesome patch, thank you so very much for the needed attention to red. Pras Alecta!

[Hectorchrist]

Really great to see these changes. Welcome, and thank you!

[plagueis]

The best part about red99 for me is that you can actually root and snare people and get normal spells off. It's good to see these changes but it worries me when I see the resists getting too powerful. I remember on live basically not being able to land a spell in pvp and it totally ruined it. for people like me who started the server late i had no choice but to level a caster and if they become useless in pvp due to resists like they did on live that would really suck. This server needs thriving pvp to stay healthy. Classisism<experience

[Colgate]

clerics don't become useless in pvp when root doesn't land

u srs?

[Technique]

On the subject of casting mechanics, I'd also like to see this addressed:
Added a 5% per attack reduction in channeling chance.http://wiki.project1999.com/Game_Mechanics#PvP_Details_for_p1999

As far as I know, there's no evidence that anything like this existed on live. Melee push and the channeling formula should've been investigated first.

[plagueis]

the los check seems like a mistake as well. It sounds good on paper but wait until melee's just run around the corner for the last 0.5 sec of your spell. These changes are what made casters useless on live for pvp.

[Dullah]

Resists

This is the area of greatest 'greyness' for R99, and so I am sure everyone will hate me no matter what I do.

Prior to this last patch, every PvP spell went through the same resist curve. Certain spell types had often rather large +resist modifiers added to them to shift the curve around, but it was the same curve.

So what we've done is add new 'PvP resist calculations' to the system, where we can tag individual spells (procs / poisons / bard songs) as having a particular resist calculation. Currently, we only have 3 implemented:


PvP Unresistible - used in Rapture, Splurt, Lifetaps, etc.
PvP Linear with Cap - used in Roots currently, lets us specific a point where the resists hit the 98% cap.
Default (Null's curve)


We're planning on adding some more such as :

One for rogue blinds - bit harder to resist than normal poison spells since they are 1 shot and require reagents, but with very nerfed partials so you aren't blinded or snared for 2 minutes.
One for stuns - perhaps taking into account the level of the spell for your class and level of the caster, so your highest level stun can land occasionally, but spamming 4 low level stuns wont keep people locked down.
One for non-lure DDs - which will predominately focus on the partial logic.


Any player feedback on spells or proposed resist functions is welcome.

Also, we've worked out a way to cap resists at 255, which isnt a huge deal at this point, but will be implemented prior to Velious, and should help keep things a little more manageable from a resist point of view.

Yes to all these.

Definite no to LOS on spell land.

As far as damage spells, the resists should be between our current (r99) and classic (live). Pretty much right in the middle. Classic (1999-2001) was fine until everyone realized how and where to get resist gear. Then by velious (esp the end) casters sucked.

I understand what Null was trying to do, but he went too far away from classic to the point that it changed the way EQ pvp was intended to work. Allowing players to have a chance to resist spells without having to stack a single resist in every slot allows for more variety, promotes longer fights and tactics and gives the server a much more classic feel.

[Stinkum]

RZ rules:

- Damage spells were capped at 66% of their normal damage against players
- Damage spells did not require line of sight in order to hit PCs. Therefore you can attack and be attacked through walls, floors, etc.
- Point-Blank AE spells did not harm your groupmates, but they hurt your pet.
- You were able to attack your own pet. If you attack your pet (spell or melee) it will instantly suicide.
- Resistance Debuffs (the Tashan and Malosi series) had an increased impact on players.
- Harmtouch and Lay on Hands did not recycle on ANY death. You had to wait full duration to use these abilities again.

[Technique]

It wasn't 66% it was set to 33% for nuke's that would leave lure's doing 200 dmg no wizard would have ever gotten a kill.Your stupidity truly is something to behold.

[RoguePhantom]

There is already a giant problem with well geared melee's vs caster's. If you run any DPS tests you'll see the average geared melee can easily outdo the best caster dps.


Ok, here is where you and most everyone is stupid.

Melee HAVE to have a higher sustained DPS. This is the tradeoff. Casters are the kings of burst DPS. "Dropping Bombs." Why you think for a long time, there were Burn Groups that would go around insta-gibbing dragons when Mana Burn came out? No Melee had that kind of burst. But Melee, overall had a better sustained DPS.

This is the tradeoff of Caster vs Melee.

[Legend]

Make LOS spell casts like Sullon Zek.

In Dungeons casters couldn't channel a 6.1 sec timed spell. Like they can here and still land on you around a corner. Melle's should hold as kings in a tight environment. Right now they have too much of an upper hand. They don't even have to cast detrimental movement spells, root snare. Just channel those long cast times and if your in range you are fuked.

I remember being in HHK and having a Sk on my with tantors, he would joust and run around corners and doorways and would literally crush me. Till I caught him with his pants down in an open field like the karanas.

Make it Hard on the LOS checks, dashing around a corner should make the player out of range.

[jcmtg]

Breaking Root

What about the initial tick for some dots that have a DD component?

Gasping Embrace - 50 damage initially and 33 damage every six seconds for 48 secs (8 ticks)

breaking

Paralyzing Earth - Enchanter - Level 49

about 3 in 8 times. Is that variance?

[Legend]

Also melee 2 hand cap is way off, it shouldn't hit for partials and low end. Should hit for more. Nothing like your big old 2 hander hitting for double 20's at 50. I remember they did a revamp and 2 handers were broken for so long. Right now a good fast 1h and shield is more effective than a big 2 hander.

[Slytherin]

Resists


First, such great work has already been done here due to this patch, thanks!

What about resist modifiers on a per spell basis?

Splurt made the unresistable category but Pyrocruor I'm assuming didn't and has the same resist modifier.

Here's a quick list of what might deserve attention:

Necro
Fire Line (Ignite Bones, Pyrocruor, etc) has the same resist modifier as Splurt

Envenomed Bolt has a resist modifier that should make it a bit easier to land (resist mod should have roughly the impact of Malo)

Trepidation has a resist modifier (resist mod should have roughly 2x the impact of Malo)

Enchanter
Cripple has a resist modifier that makes the debuff easier to land (resist mod should be roughly equal to impact of Tash).

Lagarn's Lamentation has a resist modifier that makes it more likely to land than other stuns (resist mod should have the 1.5 times the impact of Tash).

Trepidation (see Necro)

Magician
No mods

Wizard
Lures should be in the unresistable category

Shaman
Envenomed Bolt (See Necro)

Cripple (See Enchanter)

Bane of Nife has a resist modifier that makes it more likely to land (resist mod should have 1.5 times the impact of Malo)

Pox of Bertoxxulous has a resist modifier identical to Bane of Nife above.

Druid
Breath of Ro has a resist modifier (should have roughly the impact of Malo)

Cleric
Trepidation (see Necro)


Thanks again for all the work to make the server fun!

[Technique]

So your saying when an Ice comet landed for full on a player on live it only did 380 dmg!No, that's what you are saying because you don't pause for even a moment to attempt to comprehend what you've read.

Stinkum said that a spell's PvP damage is 66% of its PvE damage, a statement you misconstrued to mean a 66% reduction in damage, which would then result in the spell causing only ~33% of its PvE damage. No one but you is so confused as to believe that was what he claimed.

[Bokke]

Non-Classic Mechanics

Soft LOS Check

Null created a system where if you had LOS on a player at the beginning of the detrimental spell and your target went out of LOS at the end of the cast, your spell wouldn't fail if the player was still within 70% of the spells range.

Personally, I feel like this is not a good thing. It reduces the importance of positioning and timing in dungeon pvp and it makes new players cry hax when they get nuked through walls. Thoughts?



I agree with you here. If a caster starts to go for a huge hitting spell you should be able to line of sight it. It gives melee a clear advantage in very close quarters with nearby LoS but that's really not a bad thing and a caster can re-position themselves in response, or use faster spells, or use other utility like thorns/pets etc. LOS always added more variety and positioning to pvp.

[Legend]

First, such great work has already been done here due to this patch, thanks!

What about resist modifiers on a per spell basis?

Splurt made the unresistable category but Pyrocruor I'm assuming didn't and has the same resist modifier.

Here's a quick list of what might deserve attention:

Necro
Fire Line (Ignite Bones, Pyrocruor, etc) has the same resist modifier as Splurt

Envenomed Bolt has a resist modifier that should make it a bit easier to land (resist mod should have roughly the impact of Malo)

Trepidation has a resist modifier (resist mod should have roughly 2x the impact of Malo)

Enchanter
Cripple has a resist modifier that makes the debuff easier to land (resist mod should be roughly equal to impact of Tash).

Lagarn's Lamentation has a resist modifier that makes it more likely to land than other stuns (resist mod should have the 1.5 times the impact of Tash).

Trepidation (see Necro)

Magician
No mods

Wizard
Lures should be in the unresistable category

Shaman
Envenomed Bolt (See Necro)

Cripple (See Enchanter)

Bane of Nife has a resist modifier that makes it more likely to land (resist mod should have 1.5 times the impact of Malo)

Pox of Bertoxxulous has a resist modifier identical to Bane of Nife above.

Druid
Breath of Ro has a resist modifier (should have roughly the impact of Malo)

Cleric
Trepidation (see Necro)


Thanks again for all the work to make the server fun!

Ignite Bones was resisted often on players and mobs.

Trepidation is a fear spell...

Cripple is mr based and was resisted often.

Ebolt never laneded post Kunark with Dead Man Floating.

Splurt was never resisted much if at all, almost lure based.

You are a terrible necro, especially with all that godly gear you own sir.
Please no more suggestions. No idea why you want fear adjusted when Trepidation has 9 ticks and Invoke fear is a cheaper cost and lasts for 11 ticks.

No idea what your main was or is here but you should play it more than your necro.

[Legend]

Casters have always shit on melee 1-60 in shit gear. It was well known that a melee in end game BIS was a force to rekon with. So 60 casters that had it ez solo mode 1-60 and effectively pvp'd almost naked with a 4:1 odd against a solo melee. Should be shit on at 60 by end game raided tanks/melee. Especially end, end game, NtoV gear, Vulk Loot etc.

Adjust accordingly. On Sullon Zek I played Gosu <Tides of Wraith> 60 epic chanter 700 aa's. There was next to nothing I could do against a melee of even lvl with 70 aa's.

[Slytherin]

while pyrocuror does have -100 mod, envenomed bolt, ignite bones, bane of nife, and breath of ro. Never did!


There's a pvp resist mod that only applies to pvp in the spell data.

[Slytherin]

this is total nonsense w/ no grounding in reality

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellraw.html?id=436&source=Live

[Andis]

alecta

I saw the patch notes for druid track

but not for the rog hide and sneak.....

[SamwiseRed]

Pet's also didn't suicide on Rallos during Kunark era they went Rogue and became monster NPC's that argo'd everyone in sight!

i tried telling people this but they wouldnt listen. also when players would go ld on rz sometimes their pets would just go nuts and start murdering everyone

[HippoNipple]

There's a pvp resist mod that only applies to pvp in the spell data.

Ignite Bones was resisted in PvP often.

[Alecta]

There were various patches over the course of the games evolution where they reworked PvP spell resists, and they did add pvpresistcalc, pvpresistcap and pvpresistbase.

The per-spell tweaking that we are starting to use actually uses those same fields in the database (but we overwrite the values with ones we specify.)

[HippoNipple]

i tried telling people this but they wouldnt listen. also when players would go ld on rz sometimes their pets would just go nuts and start murdering everyone

I remember this as well... it almost seemed like the pets were stronger when the owner went link dead.

[Bazia]

make it classic in regards to resist, any other way is too much interpretation/variables

if people pick wizards then they shouldnt be surprised when they are forced to use lures later

if were gonna have CR/FR be unclassic then can my CLR please get some unclassic buffs to offset? :)

[Retti_]

Just ban Syft from this thread imo

[Slytherin]

There were various patches over the course of the games evolution where they reworked PvP spell resists, and they did add pvpresistcalc, pvpresistcap and pvpresistbase.

The per-spell tweaking that we are starting to use actually uses those same fields in the database (but we overwrite the values with ones we specify.)

Great! Thanks, Alecta.

[RoguePhantom]

There were various patches over the course of the games evolution where they reworked PvP spell resists, and they did add pvpresistcalc, pvpresistcap and pvpresistbase.

The per-spell tweaking that we are starting to use actually uses those same fields in the database (but we overwrite the values with ones we specify.)

This wasn't until Planes of Power, when people were able to max resists.

[Bamz4l]

Yes to all these.

Definite no to LOS on spell land.

As far as damage spells, the resists should be between our current (r99) and classic (live). Pretty much right in the middle. Classic (1999-2001) was fine until everyone realized how and where to get resist gear. Then by velious (esp the end) casters sucked.

I understand what Null was trying to do, but he went too far away from classic to the point that it changed the way EQ pvp was intended to work. Allowing players to have a chance to resist spells without having to stack a single resist in every slot allows for more variety, promotes longer fights and tactics and gives the server a much more classic feel.

they are now trying to set things classic.. so enuff custom bs
plz alecta ignore this guy and keep it classic. u don't wanna be the next null

[Cid]

If everything is being made more "classic" can we get the stupid ass reduction to dots on moving, non-feared mobs removed?

Preventing druids and necros from snare kiting is about as unclassic as you can be. And, shamans get screwed the worst because every single dot they have except epic click has a DD attached that breaks root. Fixing the ability to duck out of spells would help too. Getting attacked at the beginning of a 16 second pet cast and not being able to even have a chance to defend yourself is bullshit.

I don't really care what you do to pvp because I do not attack people.

[Bamz4l]

ya crack in your cornflakes this morning? You obviously didn't play 5 minutes of EQ live. Been trolling us this long Rydar, Trollborn, Crystalblue claiming all these EQ merit badges and don't know the fundamentals of the classes.

We didn't come here for
http://i.imgur.com/IcL4L.png

[Nizzarr]

classic resists, 50% debuff bonus

100 pr should be more than enough to totally resist an ebolt 90% of the time, 100cr/fr is more than enough to partial 80% of ice/fire nukes.

Shouldnt need 200mr(currently what it is) to resist enc mezzes/bard mezzes. 100 mr should be more than enough for all of this.

I'm sure if you find the pvp values for most of these spells, its gonna look around the values above.

I'm sitting at 170mr on my warrior and a bard can keep me mezzed forever.

[Smegmy]

Hi I new here player old eq fun time

You seem like a gay

[Lionfish Roundup]

heres my feedback, last time I played my cleric I camped blue diamonds and diamonds in seb for a couple weeks,

I got all my gear + fungi tunic + all other resist pieces and never resisted anything or took any partials. , I just blew up and died

then I sold my cleric.

Resists are broken btw

[Rec]

what does the enchanter do after you're able to resist mes? resort to harsh language?

[Crenshinabon]

Enchanters Tashan gave a lot more vs players than vs mobs.
Shit was decent and made it not as miserable.

[Smedy]

Resists

This is the area of greatest 'greyness' for R99, and so I am sure everyone will hate me no matter what I do.

Prior to this last patch, every PvP spell went through the same resist curve. Certain spell types had often rather large +resist modifiers added to them to shift the curve around, but it was the same curve.

So what we've done is add new 'PvP resist calculations' to the system, where we can tag individual spells (procs / poisons / bard songs) as having a particular resist calculation. Currently, we only have 3 implemented:


PvP Unresistible - used in Rapture, Splurt, Lifetaps, etc.
PvP Linear with Cap - used in Roots currently, lets us specific a point where the resists hit the 98% cap.
Default (Null's curve)


We're planning on adding some more such as :

One for rogue blinds - bit harder to resist than normal poison spells since they are 1 shot and require reagents, but with very nerfed partials so you aren't blinded or snared for 2 minutes.
One for stuns - perhaps taking into account the level of the spell for your class and level of the caster, so your highest level stun can land occasionally, but spamming 4 low level stuns wont keep people locked down.
One for non-lure DDs - which will predominately focus on the partial logic.


Any player feedback on spells or proposed resist functions is welcome.

Also, we've worked out a way to cap resists at 255, which isnt a huge deal at this point, but will be implemented prior to Velious, and should help keep things a little more manageable from a resist point of view.

Live was weird, i'm pretty sure they coded each spell individually and didn't use a resist curve for everything.

Look at a spell like "Shock of Lightning" as an example, it's a wizard spell at lvl 16 that was more or less unresistable in pvp, and it gave a tiny tiny knockback. Everyone used it because of this, never any DATA that it was a lure or anything.

Same goes with Winged Death and that line of spells, it did say -100mr check on some sites i remember, but knowing that a lot of people in late velious easily capped MR at 255 and still never ever resisted this spell makes me think it was unresistable as well.

No body knows breh, just gonna have to go on what works for pvp (isn't op as fuck) and what we remember.

Also i've heard a lot of complaining about the Mage Epic pet, people seem to have this fond idea that it was completely immune to snare/root and that wasn't the case.

I played a epic mage during live and my pet was often rooten/snared, it did however make a HUGE difference if someone put a magic resist buff on it. I'd say without the mr buff it resisted about 2/3 roots, with mr buff it probably resisted 8/10 root/snares.

Many people were retarded on live and didn't dispell the pet, thus making the pet a god damn beast

[Agatha]

smedy jesus knows the truth.

[Dullah]

Adjusting resists shouldn't be too complicated. You just raise the threshold for resists as the knowledge of the game has increased. A lower resist threshold wasn't that big of a deal in kunark because few people ran around completely decked in resist gear.

Now we know better.

Reliable threshold for resists on live was 75~ with complete resists not being uncommon and scaling up from there. Reliable threshold for resists on r99 is almost double that at like 150~ with no complete resists and a chance for spells to still hit for full as opposed to being completely resisted (dumb)...

Just move it to the middle at 115 and then add a scaling chance for complete resists as you move towards 255 where 255 save gives around 25-50% chance for complete resist. Still way more reasonable towards casters than classic, but actually rewards those willing to sacrifice everything else for resists.

[Pudge]

Non-Classic Mechanics

You've had a chance to play with these, we want some feedback on whether or not they should stay in.

Soft LOS Check

Null created a system where if you had LOS on a player at the beginning of the detrimental spell and your target went out of LOS at the end of the cast, your spell wouldn't fail if the player was still within 70% of the spells range.

Personally, I feel like this is not a good thing. It reduces the importance of positioning and timing in dungeon pvp and it makes new players cry hax when they get nuked through walls. Thoughts?

Root and Snare Duration

Null also made it so root and snare do not have a chance to break on ticks. Instead if they land, they always land for the full duration. They only break on spell damage and melee damage. Melee damage has a (damage/5)% chance to break, so a 500 hp blow always breaks it, a 250 hp blow will have a 50% chance to break it, etc.

Personally, I think that by not giving it a chance to break on ticks, it further trivializes resists. And while I understand the logic behind the melee damage, that's not exactly classic.

Also, the Titanium Client has a 24 second snare cap for PvP that we are currently overriding. Any opinions on the 24 second cap with tic checks for snare?

LoS check: think null had it perfect here. Maaybe reduce the range to 50% only in dungeons, and keep it 70% for outdoors. Running around in guk or solb or whatever dungeon, you have almost 0 chance of getting to 70% spell distance, especially if mobs are around. If los was needed both at beginning and end, casters would be way too gimped. They'd basically be limited to outdoor zones with flat plains (they'd get to rule the karanas though!...).

Root: I always thought null's root system with 5% was fine, and the one time someone actually gets rooted they cry too hard. Mage pet root was actually op, but regular root... RARELY was casted in PvP. Only time I ever saw it was desperate attempts at keeping someone from reaching a zone line. I've never even once had a guild "root train" called. It's always a "dispell train" for a reason. If root was as op as everyone complains it was, they'd have actually been casting the spell.

That said.. seeing as it's already been changed to 2% chance down from 5, I really think it doesn't matter how the "break" mechanic functions. Breaking on ticks (and nukes) is most classic, so do it so nilbog can sleep better at night.

Snare: I'd keep it going over 24 seconds, with resist checks every tick. Classic. Hrm.. with regards to root and snare, once they land the first time, is the "break free" check harder to pass than the initial "get rooted" check? Because if they are the same (which I do not think they should be) then all roots and snares would only be lasting for 1 tick... this would make them really even more useless, and probably why null had them land for full duration and then have them break the way he did. Soo.. the "break free" check would have to have a lower probability than the initial landing of the spell.

[Colgate]

Root: I always thought null's root system with 5% was fine, and the one time someone actually gets rooted they cry too hard. Mage pet root was actually op, but regular root... RARELY was casted in PvP. Only time I ever saw it was desperate attempts at keeping someone from reaching a zone line. I've never even once had a guild "root train" called. It's always a "dispell train" for a reason. If root was as op as everyone complains it was, they'd have actually been casting the spell.

every group/mass pvp had at least 1 or 2 people chain casting root on me

there were many fights where it would land and i'd be instagibbed

[HippoNipple]

every group/mass pvp had at least 1 or 2 people chain casting root on me

there were many fights where it would land and i'd be instagibbed

Why didn't they just chain sunstrike you?

[failed2k]

In Velious with over 100 in every resist, I don't remember a whole lot of stuff sticking.
Things I remember clearly (From velious era pvp in general spell resist wise)

Wizards used ice spear on targets they thought had bad resists, and had to Lure everyone else, I got constant full or heavy partials on ice spears, Draughts were totally unusable in pvp against anyone with decent gear.

Necro's were studs because of unresistable lifetaps and splurt, never once do I recall any of their ignite bones line sticking at all.

Mage nukes basically didnt land for full until they stuck malo, then they could get fulls and partials on their fire stuff. MAge Epic pet stun was nearly unresistable, to get steady resists I remember needing nearly 180 mr or something.

Enchs raptured you until they charmed something good, or a wizard friend showed up.

Druids worked Winged Death Line, and also their Epic click was actually kind of hard to resist, also their fire nukes were rarely full resisted, but you could get frequent partials.

Shamans , Bane of Nife stuck on people without good Pr(over like 80-100 range), Poxx was streaky but I swear it would just randomly stick even with good Dr sometimes. Their ice nukes were a bit like druid nukes, not a lot of full lands, but not a lot of full resists either.

Clerics , Nothing they did stuck really, they just were basically unkillable, one of their last nukes would partial sometimes, but often got full resisted.

Palys Could land random low level stuns on people, but at like 1/5 success rate over 100mr 1/8 over 130 or so, good paly pvpers would space quick stuns in between joust cycles just for the off chance of a winning trade.

Rangers sucked until AA's Sorry dudez, their fire nuke would partial, but rarely full resist or full land :/

Sk's got by on lifetaps and spamming clinging darkness on targets they felt had low MR. Also HT was not realistically resistable by players. With unholy aura, I'm fairly sure it was actually unresistable.

Bards got by on not actually trying to kill anyone and instead facilitating disgusting group pvp, also BardTouch(the big nuke name eludes me) was difficult to full resist, but did get some partials. Most of their chants were unreliable, and often they just ran around with Selos and tried to frost chant you/snare you. They were never a killing threat to geared melee's, and didnt do a ton better against geared casters.


these are just general memories I have of velious era pvp on Rallos Zek, contributing to the information banks.


Also the LOS'ing casters thing by ducking around corners existed on rallos for a VERY long time, I don't think it should exist, because it is pretty dumb, but it was there, I remember doing it all the time in Sol B. IT got changed eventually, but I cannot for the life of me remember when.



Also this a big one people have been asking about

Lifetaps did NOT heal for full on players in pvp, I tested this a bunch on live when I first got Life Leech scroll, trying to figure out exactly how much it healed me off players ect, and it was hit by the 60% modifier like everything else in pvp

[Osyruz]

Looking directly at a mob, only slightly down hill from it, not even a foot or 2 lower then it, pings the LoS check. You basicly have to be dead even on the same ground as the mob to cast on it. If it is slightly uphill or downhill from you, it flags it as not in your LoS. This makes it VERY difficult, if not nearly impossible, to play a caster due to every single zone having hills. I will be staring directly at a mob in this situation, cast my spell (mob is still in the same spot), and right as the spell is about to go off, I get the "target is not in sight". This cannot be seriously working as intended, can it? :confused:

[compulsion]

Look at a spell like "Shock of Lightning" as an example, it's a wizard spell at lvl 16 that was more or less unresistable in pvp, and it gave a tiny tiny knockback. Everyone used it because of this, never any DATA that it was a lure or anything.

At higher levels it was almost always partialed, but even if it hit for 10 dmg the knockback would probably interrupt casting. In groups you could just spam it while your melees smashed healers. Solo, alternating it and a lure would prevent gate more often than not and get you the kill. It is almost useless here with no clicky refresh on gems.

Adjusting resists shouldn't be too complicated. You just raise the threshold for resists as the knowledge of the game has increased. A lower resist threshold wasn't that big of a deal in kunark because few people ran around completely decked in resist gear.

Now we know better.

Reliable threshold for resists on live was 75~ with complete resists not being uncommon and scaling up from there. Reliable threshold for resists on r99 is almost double that at like 150~ with no complete resists and a chance for spells to still hit for full as opposed to being completely resisted (dumb)...

Just move it to the middle at 115 and then add a scaling chance for complete resists as you move towards 255 where 255 save gives around 25-50% chance for complete resist. Still way more reasonable towards casters than classic, but actually rewards those willing to sacrifice everything else for resists.

Adjusting the curve along that type of line is the best answer. Add in the +50% to debuffs in PvP like on Sullon Zek to reward group coordination and you will still see plenty of kills through Velious.

[Lowrider]

Does ducking stop your casting time yet?
or do you still have to wait it out even if you duck?

[Lionfish Roundup]

Does ducking stop your casting time yet?
or do you still have to wait it out even if you duck?

great sig

sex , drugs and pvp



joins nihilum HAHA

[Retti_]

I played casters in classic to velious this refresh never existed

[meatspin]

Looking directly at a mob, only slightly down hill from it, not even a foot or 2 lower then it, pings the LoS check. You basicly have to be dead even on the same ground as the mob to cast on it. If it is slightly uphill or downhill from you, it flags it as not in your LoS. This makes it VERY difficult, if not nearly impossible, to play a caster due to every single zone having hills. I will be staring directly at a mob in this situation, cast my spell (mob is still in the same spot), and right as the spell is about to go off, I get the "target is not in sight". This cannot be seriously working as intended, can it? :confused:

this is def new after the patch. I was kiting in oasis last night and couldn't cast on anything when I was on a hill, I thought the mobs might have just been ghosting and actually out of range, but then the wacked me. I could only cast on FLAT land...

[Something'Witty]

Adjusting resists shouldn't be too complicated. You just raise the threshold for resists as the knowledge of the game has increased. A lower resist threshold wasn't that big of a deal in kunark because few people ran around completely decked in resist gear.

Now we know better.

Reliable threshold for resists on live was 75~ with complete resists not being uncommon and scaling up from there. Reliable threshold for resists on r99 is almost double that at like 150~ with no complete resists and a chance for spells to still hit for full as opposed to being completely resisted (dumb)...

Just move it to the middle at 115 and then add a scaling chance for complete resists as you move towards 255 where 255 save gives around 25-50% chance for complete resist. Still way more reasonable towards casters than classic, but actually rewards those willing to sacrifice everything else for resists.

Out of all the resist tweak suggestions in the thread, this makes the most sense to me. Split the difference and let the community test it out. Same goes for LOS issues.

Oh and I also 100% agree with Syft on the need for insta clicks refreshing spell gems.

[Nizzarr]

In Velious with over 100 in every resist, I don't remember a whole lot of stuff sticking.
Things I remember clearly (From velious era pvp in general spell resist wise)

Wizards used ice spear on targets they thought had bad resists, and had to Lure everyone else, I got constant full or heavy partials on ice spears, Draughts were totally unusable in pvp against anyone with decent gear.

Necro's were studs because of unresistable lifetaps and splurt, never once do I recall any of their ignite bones line sticking at all.

Mage nukes basically didnt land for full until they stuck malo, then they could get fulls and partials on their fire stuff. MAge Epic pet stun was nearly unresistable, to get steady resists I remember needing nearly 180 mr or something.

Enchs raptured you until they charmed something good, or a wizard friend showed up.

Druids worked Winged Death Line, and also their Epic click was actually kind of hard to resist, also their fire nukes were rarely full resisted, but you could get frequent partials.

Shamans , Bane of Nife stuck on people without good Pr(over like 80-100 range), Poxx was streaky but I swear it would just randomly stick even with good Dr sometimes. Their ice nukes were a bit like druid nukes, not a lot of full lands, but not a lot of full resists either.

Clerics , Nothing they did stuck really, they just were basically unkillable, one of their last nukes would partial sometimes, but often got full resisted.

Palys Could land random low level stuns on people, but at like 1/5 success rate over 100mr 1/8 over 130 or so, good paly pvpers would space quick stuns in between joust cycles just for the off chance of a winning trade.

Rangers sucked until AA's Sorry dudez, their fire nuke would partial, but rarely full resist or full land :/

Sk's got by on lifetaps and spamming clinging darkness on targets they felt had low MR. Also HT was not realistically resistable by players. With unholy aura, I'm fairly sure it was actually unresistable.

Bards got by on not actually trying to kill anyone and instead facilitating disgusting group pvp, also BardTouch(the big nuke name eludes me) was difficult to full resist, but did get some partials. Most of their chants were unreliable, and often they just ran around with Selos and tried to frost chant you/snare you. They were never a killing threat to geared melee's, and didnt do a ton better against geared casters.


these are just general memories I have of velious era pvp on Rallos Zek, contributing to the information banks.


Also the LOS'ing casters thing by ducking around corners existed on rallos for a VERY long time, I don't think it should exist, because it is pretty dumb, but it was there, I remember doing it all the time in Sol B. IT got changed eventually, but I cannot for the life of me remember when.



Also this a big one people have been asking about

Lifetaps did NOT heal for full on players in pvp, I tested this a bunch on live when I first got Life Leech scroll, trying to figure out exactly how much it healed me off players ect, and it was hit by the 60% modifier like everything else in pvp

very accurate post(HEY LOOK ITS SIMILAR TO MINE)

[Nizzarr]

There were no difference between kunark and velious as far as resist goes.

I'm on the classic agenda. You're on the "I'm a wizard and I wanna land sunstrike on people with 200 fr" agenda.

[jcmtg]

Looking directly at a mob, only slightly down hill from it, not even a foot or 2 lower then it, pings the LoS check. You basicly have to be dead even on the same ground as the mob to cast on it. If it is slightly uphill or downhill from you, it flags it as not in your LoS. This makes it VERY difficult, if not nearly impossible, to play a caster due to every single zone having hills. I will be staring directly at a mob in this situation, cast my spell (mob is still in the same spot), and right as the spell is about to go off, I get the "target is not in sight". This cannot be seriously working as intended, can it? :confused:

You're talking about current p99 and i agree. Line of Sight is off regarding small hills and slopes. Take, for example, the Aviak/Spiroc forts. You can't cast on the birds two ramps up from the ground. Nor can you pull a spiroc, run it to the water, then root from the little hill/slope in Timorous Deep, towards the lone Water tower w/ one spiroc in it. Also, you can't cast from outside on of the little gazebos onto a spiroc within it. LOS ceck. Also, you can't cast from certain corners of a platform onto a spiroc spawned on another corner, see: spiroc on last platform before top floor - not the one on the plank, but in the corner.

[Nizzarr]

I believe we reported this issue already and theyre looking into removing the Z-axis completely for spells and melee in pvp. as it should be.

Unfortunately, Alecta isnt a PVE developper and will not fix it for PVE. It should go hand in hand though, as pets are considered PVE and you wont be able to root them from above, which creates another bogus situation.

[Something'Witty]

very accurate post

I also found the summary very accurate, but don't necessary want a truly classic PvP resist system. The caliber of the avg R99 player is sooo much higher then that of avg player on live during this era. I fear that a truly classic PvP resist system would result in casters being seriously disadvantaged.

[heartbrand]

You don't say Arzak?

[Nizzarr]

I want a classic system.

We know what were into with a classic system, we've seen it before.

I'll do the rundown of every classes strenght and weakness in a classic system.

Warriors: Shitty when not geared, unstoppable when geared. They have no way of quickly killing people but will dish out good damage. Do not waste time nuking a warrior in pvp.

Rogues: Shitty when not geared, will kill you very quickly when geared. Doesnt have a lot of hitpoints, a couple DOTs and 2-3 lures will take care of them. Must be killed quickly or lose the battle.

Monks: Very shitty when not geared, juggernauts when geared. Big 2h damage and mend makes it you dont wanna fight them at any zone lines. Tough fight for any casters, will get dominated by any good necros or wizards outdoor.

Wizards: Your lures are very deadly, lands for full everytime. You can sunstrike/ice spear malo'ed targets very efficiently. Have a couple of escape mechanism and good DPS to assist train targets.

Druids: Winged death is your deadliest spell, cast it often and on every target in mass pvp. Your thorns should take care of rogues and other melees pretty well. Support healer role more than anything.

Shamans: Malo is your greatest asset, use it well and use it often. Torpor is a beast in a classic resist situation. Don't bother casting poisons dots if people are levitated, use your unresistable disease debuff and go for poxxes. Your ice nukes will land on maloed targets

Necromancers: Caster god of pvp, unkillable 1on1 by any classes in the game. Will shit on you indoor or outdoor. Lots of unresistable spells makes this class very hard to play against.

Mages: Your pet is your greatest asset, next to your mala. Mala'ed targets can be nuked with fire bolts or DDs. Dont ever use magic DDs. Will never land. Dispel your rooted/snared pet and kite and fire quick bolts.

Clerics: Got 100 in every resists? you're unkillable. You can't do shit either. Heal yourself and run.

Rangers: Rangers

Shadowknights: Not much here, good finisher and some unresistable lifetaps.

Paladins: lvl 9 stun lands a lot even on geared people, use it. Anything else is resisted. very hard to kill good paladins(read: impossibru).

Enchanters: Good crowd control in pvp, rapture always lands and you can easily dazzle tash'd and pillage'd targets. Dont expect your nukes to land on warriors/rogues but you can easily kill monk/druids/shamans/other casters if things go right.

Bards: Selos and resists bitch. Will get better when they have epic and occlusion of sound. Can land chants(maybe) on some lesser geared targets, occlusion with epic removes like 65 all resists and can land much more stuff in velious.

now thats classic resists, anything else will change the summary above.

[Something'Witty]

I'll do the rundown of every classes strenght and weakness in a classic system.

Also a great summary, but I still think a custom resist system somewhere between R99 and classic live is the way to go.

Oh and one thing I forgot to mention in my previous post. I also have the belief that a truly classic resist system would only widen the gear gap, especially in Velious. Players decked out in NToV / ST gear would be untouchable. That may be classic, but I dunno if that results in a fun box. Thoughts?

[ncapatina]

Warriors: Shitty when not geared, unstoppable when geared.

Rogues: Shitty when not geared, will kill you very quickly when geared.

Monks: Very shitty when not geared, juggernauts when geared.

Necromancers: Caster god of pvp, unkillable 1on1 by any classes in the game.

Can we get a ranking system of which is better: unstoppable, kill-you-quickly, juggernaut and caster god of pvp?

Joking aside, nice summary.

[NotKringe]

I want a classic system.

We know what were into with a classic system, we've seen it before.

I'll do the rundown of every classes strenght and weakness in a classic system.

Warriors: Shitty when not geared, unstoppable when geared. They have no way of quickly killing people but will dish out good damage. Do not waste time nuking a warrior in pvp.

Rogues: Shitty when not geared, will kill you very quickly when geared. Doesnt have a lot of hitpoints, a couple DOTs and 2-3 lures will take care of them. Must be killed quickly or lose the battle.

Monks: Very shitty when not geared, juggernauts when geared. Big 2h damage and mend makes it you dont wanna fight them at any zone lines. Tough fight for any casters, will get dominated by any good necros or wizards outdoor.

Wizards: Your lures are very deadly, lands for full everytime. You can sunstrike/ice spear malo'ed targets very efficiently. Have a couple of escape mechanism and good DPS to assist train targets.

Druids: Winged death is your deadliest spell, cast it often and on every target in mass pvp. Your thorns should take care of rogues and other melees pretty well. Support healer role more than anything.

Shamans: Malo is your greatest asset, use it well and use it often. Torpor is a beast in a classic resist situation. Don't bother casting poisons dots if people are levitated, use your unresistable disease debuff and go for poxxes. Your ice nukes will land on maloed targets

Necromancers: Caster god of pvp, unkillable 1on1 by any classes in the game. Will shit on you indoor or outdoor. Lots of unresistable spells makes this class very hard to play against.

Mages: Your pet is your greatest asset, next to your mala. Mala'ed targets can be nuked with fire bolts or DDs. Dont ever use magic DDs. Will never land. Dispel your rooted/snared pet and kite and fire quick bolts.

Clerics: Got 100 in every resists? you're unkillable. You can't do shit either. Heal yourself and run.

Rangers: Rangers

Shadowknights: Not much here, good finisher and some unresistable lifetaps.

Paladins: lvl 9 stun lands a lot even on geared people, use it. Anything else is resisted. very hard to kill good paladins(read: impossibru).

Enchanters: Good crowd control in pvp, rapture always lands and you can easily dazzle tash'd and pillage'd targets. Dont expect your nukes to land on warriors/rogues but you can easily kill monk/druids/shamans/other casters if things go right.

Bards: Selos and resists bitch. Will get better when they have epic and occlusion of sound. Can land chants(maybe) on some lesser geared targets, occlusion with epic removes like 65 all resists and can land much more stuff in velious.

now thats classic resists, anything else will change the summary above.


Actually a pretty accurate description of the classic rundown.

[Pudge]

Resists

This is the area of greatest 'greyness' for R99, and so I am sure everyone will hate me no matter what I do.

Prior to this last patch, every PvP spell went through the same resist curve. Certain spell types had often rather large +resist modifiers added to them to shift the curve around, but it was the same curve.

So what we've done is add new 'PvP resist calculations' to the system, where we can tag individual spells (procs / poisons / bard songs) as having a particular resist calculation. Currently, we only have 3 implemented:


PvP Unresistible - used in Rapture, Splurt, Lifetaps, etc.
PvP Linear with Cap - used in Roots currently, lets us specific a point where the resists hit the 98% cap.
Default (Null's curve)


We're planning on adding some more such as :

One for rogue blinds - bit harder to resist than normal poison spells since they are 1 shot and require reagents, but with very nerfed partials so you aren't blinded or snared for 2 minutes.
One for stuns - perhaps taking into account the level of the spell for your class and level of the caster, so your highest level stun can land occasionally, but spamming 4 low level stuns wont keep people locked down.
One for non-lure DDs - which will predominately focus on the partial logic.


Any player feedback on spells or proposed resist functions is welcome.

Also, we've worked out a way to cap resists at 255, which isnt a huge deal at this point, but will be implemented prior to Velious, and should help keep things a little more manageable from a resist point of view.

Just some random thoughts, and in general i like what you state above.

The lowest level stuns worked very well for interrupting spells. The explanation I gathered from live was that they wanted newbs to be able to use their spells and learn their class better before mobs started resisting. However, it had the serendipitous effect of being good pvp interrupt. I think we should emulate this.

In general: I remember resisting a fire nuke naked one time and being very surprised. And outright resisting more shit across the board actually. Spells in general felt more "RNG" than they do here. Here everything is pretty consistent, but back on live sometimes you really could get lucky and resist a nuke. If there's going to be a 2% chance of any spell landing.. how about a balancing 1 or 2% chance that any (except unresistable category) spell can be fully resisted?

Fire/cold: think these were resisted about the same rate, except more ppl loaded fire resist so cold actually hit more.

Magic: magic nukes seemed a bit harder to land on ppl (untashed) but maybe that's because everyone had more mr? dunno. played an enchanter on sullon, they would hit (tashed) regularly. brother also played an enchanter.. was really fun timing out nukes/mez and ppl would rage. it was very reliable mezzing ppl, but then again, im thinking back to early days where ppl probably didnt have much resists.

Also, the 1.5x resist debuff is something I think we should go with here. so -40 mr tash would actually be -60 in pvp.

poison/disease: for some reason i feel like disease was hardest line to resist in the game. and poison was a little easier, but still not easy (but hey i guess none of them were "easy" to resist except root)

Dispels: this is probably a lot of work (and some guess work?), but fixing up the dispels to work on the counter system like poison/disease would be nice and classic!

Oh and FINALLY, like I've mentioned repeatedly over the years... I think resists should scale with the era. Because during classic it's hard to get 150mr, and during velious it's a piece of cake. Make the system scale to the available resists. I believe null may have coded with velious in mind.. and maybe his system would be perfect if we all had 150 mr/fr/cr unbuffed. But that's not what we have in Classic, and for the new teams server it'd be nice if the curves could easily be "bumped" over by 40 resist per expansion (or whatever seems balanced - kunark didn't introduce as much resist gear as velious).

[Bazia]

make it classic




























done













(low level stuns land easier because they dont have a damage component which results an additional resist check)

[Pudge]

(low level stuns land easier because they dont have a damage component which results an additional resist check)

Level 8 chaotic feedback still worked like a charm for me. It's a 50dd with a 0.0 sec stun http://wiki.project1999.com/Chaotic_Feedback

[Smedy]

Let me ask you Nizzar, how much of this current nihilum necromancer mania is a result of Mysig/Bonuzz being a part of your guild?

Necromancers are good but i think the hype needs to stop somewhere, feelers?

[Bardalicious]

Sure would you agree to a wipe first before putting this in because it will fuck everyone but your guild if they add it, can't believe you would rather play with just your guild on server then have competition!

Your asking for classic resist but not everything classic that's what I mean by your agenda your only for something if it helps your toons or guild!

Syft, it's honestly time for you to shut the fuck up.

Stop trying to turn every legitimate thread into your anti-nihilum bullshit.

[Dullah]

Actually a pretty accurate description of the classic rundown.

Nizzar's depiction of classic spot on, but it doesn't change the fact that EQ pvp was not optimized for min/maxers sporting full resist gear during kunark, let alone velious. PvP started out great in classic, was good in kunark, and took a dive at the end and worsened thru velious. Theres no reason to approach this the wrong way for the sake of nostalgia when we can make intelligent adjustments that actually provide a more classic pvp feel.

Can tell you right now, having nearly every spell resisted just because a player has circle of winter/summer or a dmf is the fastest way to kill this server for good (thats classic). The server needs to emulate the way pvp worked during this era, and the best way to do it will be to fix resists but still allow nukes/dots to land on players not wearing the appropriate gear. Thats how pvp worked for most of classic because most gear didn't have resists, and few people stacked the resist gear that did exist.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1142670&postcount=56

[Pudge]

Excerpts from a classic Shaman guide:

The n00b's Guide to the Troll Shaman on Rallos Zek

by Blart Ba'Klomp:


This is a draft. Any corrections would be greatly appreciated! There are several items/tricks not included in this guide, that is on purpose. Enjoy!

I get asked a lot of questions about shaman. From people wondering where to get their level 5 spells, to shaman entering the Best of the Best tournaments asking for PvP tips (Not sure why... I've never even watched a PvP tournament). ................

Disclaimer:
I played my shaman from level 1 - 50 during the first year of Everquest, so there are a lot of new zones and items I've never experienced first hand. I'm not going to give advice on the level 55-60 scene, because I don't plan on being a part of it. I�m content with level 51.
...........................................

What spells should I use in PvP?
.............
If there are people out looking for you, it should be assumed they are prepared with generic magic/fire/cold resistances. When attacking prepared opponents, go with disease debuffs, disease spells and direct damage. If they are resisting the disease spell, keep slamming away at the disease debuff � it�s fast casting and will eventually stick on even the most resistant players. Below level 40, few players have good poison resist, so you may want to give poison a shot as well. At level 50, I like to stack two disease dots on them (scourge + plague).

When hunting unprepared players, start off with a poison dot quickly followed by a blind. This is a good money maker for the PvP shaman � victims can�t bag what they can�t see. Root is also nice to have memmed, just incase the blind guy starts running towords a cliff.

Buffs:
............
For the pet: SoW, magic resist, haste. Stats have a minimal effect on NPCs (pets included), so I don't reccomend them.
.....................................

wots good equip?

Magic resistance (MR) is the most important stat. Look around for cheap MR items, and after you have about 100 MR (buffed), start getting cold + fire resist items (need 100+ in each to notice a difference), and finally disease & poison (need 50-60 in each to notice a difference).
.................................................. .................................................. ................................


Don't agree with the above poison/disease being so low but anyway here's a guide written during kunark by a shaman, edited for info on resists. ALSO:

Escaping
Spirit of Cheetah and gate, the obvious two. There are some other ones though, if you have a +HP item, and your current HP is less than the item, removing it will kill you � but you will lose no XP and nobody can loot you. This is generally used for low levels, since high level players have too many HPs. Another tactic is to commit suicide by jumping off a cliff (no xp loss from falling death), drowned (again, no xp loss), or jump in lava (no xp loss), or get killed by a monster/merchant/guard. If you get to a zone, and for some weird reason your computer powers down while zoning, your character will not show up on the other side.

--------------- Alecta you thinking of implementing these classic death scenarios? or because we're not item loot anyway (and although we are coin.. the the yellow broadcast is usually worse than losing some coin) ya think not? I don't know which way to go on this.

BUT - for teams, (especially since we don't know what death will entail) I think we should go with CLASSIC - taking HP items off, jumping off a cliff, etc. should not result in a pve (or pvp) death.

[Dullah]

I remember battling Blart on my monk back in the days. Always trying to kite me around innothule swamp with his sow boots.

[Legend]

drowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp loss


I have lost XP on this server, from drowning to death, what kind of bullshit is this?

[freez]

well you must be something' stupid to drown in this game


heres a pro hint (lulz)

if you are running out of air because you are not smart enough to let yourself breathe then /ex and when you return ou will have a full lung of air.


yur welcomez

[Runya]

Chanter's never had the dmg to nuke down a melee without aid of charming at high lvl's. Were not talking about AA's or any era with AA's.

And I can tell you that kunark and vellious era there were many caster's that could kill melee's I don't follow the logic that caster's should auto die to great geared melee's when that was never the case during those era's.

Chanters had the damage to do it,but melees full resisted 90% of the nukes which forced chanters to do damage via pet

[Legend]

well you must be something' stupid to drown in this game


heres a pro hint (lulz)

if you are running out of air because you are not smart enough to let yourself breathe then /ex and when you return ou will have a full lung of air.


yur welcomez

naw naw

wanded in kedge, rooted

xp deathbed

drowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp lossdrowned (again, no xp loss

[Retti_]

Super villain? more like village idiot

[freez]

haha

syft grasping for attention

thinks someone gives a shit when someone responds to his ten back to back messages

good lawd

[freez]

lol kid needs some meds


smells of desperation


my god

:confused:

[Dullah]

syft has the mad of tomatoking, the bad of cast and the sad of harrison all rolled into one.

Just put him on ignore already like everyone else.

[Pudge]

the mad of tomatoking, the bad of cast and the sad of harrison all rolled into one.

Lol

[Treats]

Looks like you have some good ideas and are doing good work Alecta.

Unfortunately, some of these changes are all for naught if you are looking for a classic PVP resist system.

First, the resist system needs to be completely reconfigured for PC vs NPC before you do anything with PvP based resists. Pvp Resists worked almost the same way as PC vs NPC Resists before they completely reworked the Spell System. The only difference in PvP was the Target receiving an extra resist bonus (This in addition to the regular level difference resist calculation). I am unsure if this extra bonus scaled in relation to the level difference between the Target and the Caster (I think no -- It just gave a flat Resist bonus for PvP ONLY).

Most spells in PvP were resisted or heavily partialled once your Resistance was over a certain level. This is due to the extra resist bonus and most Player spells having a fairly low Resist Mod.

Fixing Resists:

Cap Player Resists at 255
Resists from 201 to 255 gave less benefit -- Like Wisdom/Intelligence/etc

Factors calculating resists:

Level difference between Target vs Caster -- ie 42T vs 36C = +6, 36T vs 42C = -6
Target then receives Positive or Negative Resist adjust due to level difference (To shown resist)
Another Additional Positive Resist adjust for the target in PvP (Only PvP)
Spell Resist Mod subtracted from Total Resist

Resists calculated on percentages from 0 to 200 and 201 to 255
Roll for Full, Partial, or Resist -- Determined by Total Resist
On a Partial another Roll determines the damage on the Partial -- Based on Total Resist again

This will require a lot of work and testing to get the correct Positive or Negative Resist adjust due to Level Difference. More work and testing getting the Total Resist percentages correct for 0 to 200 and 201 to 255 Resist. Keep in mind these are all determined by Rolls, it is possible to land a full nuke on a player with very high resist and get a full resist on a player with very low resist. Same with High and Low partials.


Root and Snare Duration

Null also made it so root and snare do not have a chance to break on ticks. Instead if they land, they always land for the full duration. They only break on spell damage and melee damage. Melee damage has a (damage/5)% chance to break, so a 500 hp blow always breaks it, a 250 hp blow will have a 50% chance to break it, etc.

Personally, I think that by not giving it a chance to break on ticks, it further trivializes resists. And while I understand the logic behind the melee damage, that's not exactly classic.

Also, the Titanium Client has a 24 second snare cap for PvP that we are currently overriding. Any opinions on the 24 second cap with tic checks for snare?

Specific Duration Type spells do not have a chance to break on ticks. The duration is set when the spell hits the Target.

Roll for Full, Partial, or Resist -- Determined by Total Resist
On a Partial another Roll determines the tick duration on the Partial -- Based on Total Resist again

[Swaggen]

well one thing that should be fixed r the dot's when something or you r moveing it only dose half the dot's damage this should be fixed , i know root will fix this but at the sam time for pvp server this sukz. and should be fixed root hardly lands anymore in pvp thus makeing dot's useless

[HippoNipple]

well one thing that should be fixed r the dot's when something or you r moveing it only dose half the dot's damage this should be fixed , i know root will fix this but at the sam time for pvp server this sukz. and should be fixed root hardly lands anymore in pvp thus makeing dot's useless

Isn't this just for PvE? The reduced damage you are seeing in PvP is because all spells only do 2/3 the damage in PvP.

If you are trying to get something changed for PvE Alecta is not your man. That isn't his department, it will need to go through Nilbog/Rogean.

[HippoNipple]

Specific Duration Type spells do not have a chance to break on ticks. The duration is set when the spell hits the Target.



That has never been my experience on Everquest. I always have charm or root break randomly while leveling up. On p1999 and back on live. The only thing that is set from my experience are most stuns.

[Retti_]

what are some examples of "Specific Duration Type spells"?

Dots?

[Pudge]

Alecta, Treats knows his shit. Been a champion of classic mechanics for years. He's probably right about all of that

[Pudge]

what are some examples of "Specific Duration Type spells"?

Dots?

Root, snare (in pvp), charm etc. I think is what he means. Spells that can break early

[Retti_]

Root, snare (in pvp), charm etc. I think is what he means. Spells that can break early

No all those spells are not set duration.

Hes saying spell times that are fixed with no early break mechanic.

Charm def not fixed duration

[Treats]

That has never been my experience on Everquest. I always have charm or root break randomly while leveling up. On p1999 and back on live. The only thing that is set from my experience are most stuns.

Sorry, probably worded that wrong with the Specific Duration Type Spells, I mean any spell that has a chance to break early. With Specific Duration Type Spells I was referring to any spell that could last 1 tick, 2 ticks, 3 ticks, etc.

DoT's are not in this category, they do not have a chance to break once they are on the target.

The spells being referred to are Root/Charm/etc (Not sure about snare)

These spells do break randomly. Their duration is set though when the spell is landed and not checked every tick. It can be different every time depending on the Roll.

Enchanter casts Root on Target
Roll determines Root is partialed
Another Roll determines 4 tick duration

Enchanter casts Root on Target
Roll determines Root is partialed
Another Roll determines 1 tick duration