Vial of Swirling Smoke - 3 seconds

[Technique]

This change should be reverted, for at least three reasons:


It's simply common sense that this Courvoisier of EQ consumables should be differentiated from the easily farmed Lizard Blood Potion.
Currency sinks are always needed in a game with a faucet that's constantly running.
Returning the Vial to its classic state will preserve and even enhance the shit-talk between all parties present for the quaffing of a gate pot, a tradition that will surely be lost if no means of instant escape (excepting zoning) remain ingame.

I leave you to contemplate these points and trust that you'll come to realize that adding a cast time to a ~1000pp single-charge item was an overreaction.

[HippoNipple]

The economy is already fucked. Prices for items on red cost 2x as much as they do on blue but the transfer rate from red to blue is 4 to 1 in favor of blue for some reason. These 1k potions aren't going to fix or hurt the economy, it is already a joke. These potions ruin pvp.

[Dullah]

I wont say I disagree with your sentiment concerning gatepot, but its kind of moot. Having the ability to instantly bail on pvp at any time without recourse has never made for better pvp, so I support the change.

The two changes that I take issue with or think need to be modified further would be golem wand (offensive clicky) not being made pve only like all the other offensive clickies, and soulfire not given a cast time. Soulfire is still going to be an item that all paladins will keep all the time due to the ease of the quest, and many players will likely roll paladin just for this ability to insta CH in pvp. Soulfire needs to have a cast time (at least 4 seconds) to keep it from throwing the class out of balance and being a detriment to meaningful pvp.

[Smedy]

Having the ability to instantly bail on pvp at any time without recourse has never made for better pvp, so I support the change.

Agreed, not sure why people are so upset they cannot instantly get away in pvp? Maybe stop putting yourself in situations where you can't channel a 3 second cast and you won't get yellow texted.

Instantly getting out of pvp is blue as fuck, i wish they would fix zone plugging as well tbh.

[HippoNipple]

stop putting yourself in situations where you can't channel a 3 second cast. tbh.

I think this was more geared towards classes that can't channel.... I don't think casters are too worried about the change.

[compulsion]

I wont say I disagree with your sentiment concerning gatepot, but its kind of moot. Having the ability to instantly bail on pvp at any time without recourse has never made for better pvp, so I support the change.

The two changes that I take issue with or think need to be modified further would be golem wand (offensive clicky) not being made pve only like all the other offensive clickies, and soulfire not given a cast time. Soulfire is still going to be an item that all paladins will keep all the time due to the ease of the quest, and many players will likely roll paladin just for this ability to insta CH in pvp. Soulfire needs to have a cast time (at least 4 seconds) to keep it from throwing the class out of balance and being a detriment to meaningful pvp.

Agree completely. Paladins are already in a good spot PvP wise, keeping the SF CH will just make them flavor of the patch. It won't make PvP better when you see a player and know that unless they are afk, it will take a small group to bring them down.

As for the purchased gate pots, why not drop their price down to 500pp or something and keep the cast time as is or increase it. It is an expensive option, but it might let melees set themselves up in smart places so they can get around without begging for ports for an hour.

Overall, the cast times and items can be changed depending on the response. If the resists end up being adjusted, I don't see why something like say a conflag wand wouldn't be completely reasonable in PvP with a 4 sec cast time. There is a huge difference between a player hitting you with 2x golem wand charges, 3x conflag wand charges and a pillar of frost with instant wands vs cast time wands. Same thing with trak tooth. It wouldn't be so game breaking with a 6+ sec cast time. Certainly with the way root resists now work, the wooly spider net having a 1.5 or 2 sec cast would seem reasonable as well.

[Alecta]

The only thing I would note is that targeted detrimental clicks have two options:
1) Disable them against players and leave them unchanged PvE.
2) Add a cast time in PvP and PvE.

For beneficial clicks (heals, ports, etc), we can only add cast times.

If there is a consensus on what to change, we can definitely revisit the items on R99 and carry those changes over to T99 (whenever that happens).

[Technique]

2) Add a cast time in PvP and PvE.Since those detrimental clickies are rarely used in PvE in the first place, whether they have a cast time or not is practically irrelevant in that respect.

[Lionfish Roundup]

lizard blood should have the cast time since its free

the 1k gate pots should always be instant, if someone gonna burn 1k they get to poof. Period

[Dullah]

Agreed, not sure why people are so upset they cannot instantly get away in pvp? Maybe stop putting yourself in situations where you can't channel a 3 second cast and you won't get yellow texted.

Instantly getting out of pvp is blue as fuck, i wish they would fix zone plugging as well tbh.

The only problem with removing zone plugging is its too favorable to casters that can just gate or port away at any sign of trouble or unfavorable numbers. Melee are just screwed.

[Colgate]

you guys think that 1000 platinum is a lot or something and somehow justifies how gamebreaking vial of swirling smoke is

i don't get it

[Feniggles]

i have like 3k between my two characters, you think at 1k a pop they would be used all the time?

[Something'Witty]

i have like 3k between my two characters, you think at 1k a pop they would be used all the time?

It becomes a "get out of jail" card for the rich. 1k is nothing to a lot of the players who have been on the box for a long time.

[Something'Witty]

As I see it, the vial of smoke was probably intended as "oh shit button" with regards to PvE. An argument can be made that a cast time will ruin its intended usefulness, however, the inability of players to use it in PvP brings more balance to the box and out weighs the PvE concerns.

The only middle ground would be to not allow the use of the pot when engaged in PvP, like other clickies, but since gate is self only that would take a LOT of extraneous coding for very little gain. Give it a cast time and leave it at that.

[Technique]

It becomes a "get out of jail" card for the rich. 1k is nothing to a lot of the players who have been on the box for a long time.So?

Character progression/advancement, accumulation of wealth, etc. have always been the core tenets of CRPGs. This is not a symmetrical competitive environment, nor should it be.

[Something'Witty]

So?

Character progression/advancement, accumulation of wealth, etc. have always been the core tenets of CRPGs. This is not a symmetrical competitive environment, nor should it be.

I don't necessarily disagree your accumulation of wealth statement. My second post (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1141566&postcount=16) better explains my stance on the vial of smoke.

[Sektor]

3 second gate is still op and I'll still spend 1k for one. Reg gate is a 6 second cast.

[Retti_]

Therr is some good argument for the purchased gate pot but if you made it instant your introducing a pay to win mechanic that nobody wants.

It will breed more greed over shit items to vendor over giving to others and trickling down to free newbie gear.

Its 3 sec I think should stay. Run around a corner and cast it.

[Smedy]

I can't believe so many fucks are scared of pvp they want that instant gate back

Crazy fucks, these patch notes were amazing, i wish the dropped one in CT was cast time too tho, i hate anything thats instant and recruits no other skill than poopsocking a camp for hours to get it

[Alecta]

Crazy fucks, these patch notes were amazing, i wish the dropped one in CT was cast time too tho, i hate anything thats instant and recruits no other skill than poopsocking a camp for hours to get it

Lizard Blood Potion - 3 seconds

[Smedy]

Sorry missed that, awesome patch note Alecta, i will be fighting until my fingers bleed from typing before having that buyable gate potion become instant again, learn to pvp you fucks, if you put yourself in a situation where you cant pop a 3 second cast potion, you probably deserve to die anyway, you FEELERS ME DOGS?

[Retti_]

Smedy ur saying feelers me in literally every post you make

[Smedy]

Smedy ur saying feelers me in literally every post you make

ya, lots of feelers atm, whats your point?

[runlvlzero]

A big part of the problem is level cap over 50 + non classic kunark features IMO.

People had low enough HPs and resists to be easily stunned/cc'd into the ground in classic even with BIS gear.

The only thing increasing the power curve does is make it harder for people to group up and organize against trolls and twinks.

MMO pvp = zerglike behavior at all times. Zergs will use the tools the solo greifers use. And eventually you will have 1 blue server no matter what.

***Mudlfation just increases the blueifcation of all games. Any changes that are nerfs are in opposition to mudflation therefore good.

[Retti_]

U waiting 4 it to catch on?

[Smedy]

Naw just enjoy saying that atm, i have feelers right now and you have feelers about me having the feelers so we both feelers, you feelers me dog?

[karsten]

swirling smoke was instant on live iirc but like others in this thread I don't care, keep the timer on it and let's rock n roll