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Widan
11-26-2009, 05:23 AM
As it currently stands playing classes that are not able to solo is extremely frustrating. On a server that only has 150-200 people on during peak times, and <100 during off hours groups are not the easiest thing to come by. I really wanted to play a warrior, but if I can't find a group I'm pretty much out of luck.

I realize that this is trying to emulate classic eq 100%, but classic eq had a couple thousand players at peak times. So is anything being considered to help classes that realistically cannot solo past newbie levels? Allowing bind wound to heal up to 100% would make things loads better and not really over power anything.

stormlord
11-26-2009, 05:38 AM
The recent melee fix made things easier. It's supposed tobe more accurate now. And you want it even easier?

I understand where you're coming from. Live classic servers had about 27x more players than I see when I play at project1999. That made a big difference. Everything from getting bufs, advice, groups, and so on. All of that was elevated greatly.

My opinion is that as the server matures, more and more items will be in circulation and more and more porters will be available as people make alts. The impact of all this will mean that levelling up will be easier for new people - assuming that all this wealth trickles down. In theory! If there're more druid alts (in theory) then that means that you should be able to find a bind/port because people could go on their alts to give you it. And if you're shopping for new gear, there should be a greater supply (items are tradeable and don't need repair). Additionally, all of these high levels running around will be able to buff you. A druid DS helps significantly. A cleric hp buff helps too.

All of that depends on the community remaining strong. If they don't get anything out of buffing you or helping you (like money), then there needs to be another reason. Community! We have to bond together to ensure things like this happen.

Another thing I'm doing is prohibiting myself from twinking alts. I forbid it. All of them are legit. I am not against twinking others. In theory, this means that we will twink eachother rather than ourselves. I hope this theory is correct.

The very fact that we live in a tough environment (live had 27x more people) encourages us to value one another.

The more you give, the more you get.

I'm not kidding you, however. Warriors, more than everyone else, will find it very difficult to solo. Best you can do is to grind platinum so that you can buy yourself great gear. This will in turn allow you to solo better.

Widan
11-26-2009, 05:43 AM
The recent melee fix made things easier. It's supposed tobe more accurate now. And you want it even easier?


This is irrelevant, you aren't going to be able to solo as a warrior, rogue or whatever class either way past like level 10. Even a classic eq emulator needs to undergo certain changes to accommodate for the fact that they don't have very many people playing. Your points about gear and buffs don't address the problem of the lack of actual people playing. I'm on right now and theres 92 people on, hardly enough to even be able to form a group within each level range.

stormlord
11-26-2009, 05:55 AM
This is irrelevant, you aren't going to be able to solo as a warrior, rogue or whatever class either way past like level 10. Even a classic eq emulator needs to undergo certain changes to accommodate for the fact that they don't have very many people playing. Your points about gear and buffs don't address the problem of the lack of actual people playing. I'm on right now and theres 92 people on, hardly enough to even be able to form a group within each level range.

Ahh, but read the post carefully! Those people (92?) will level up. That means better buffs. It means they'll have more platinum. It means better items entering the economy. None of those items will go into disrepair, and most of them can be traded. This means that the economy will continually get filled with more and more items that will be in circulation.

My last point on the my previous post addresses the fact that warriors/rogues will have a tougher time than others. However, we all suffer as a result of having 1/27 the population of what live classic had. My advice is to play a class you can play. Play more solo-able classes, if you don't like the warrior. Or play a warrior and see how far you can go as a way of testing yourself. Savor the tough environment, and use it as motivation to help others. Try to overcome it. It's a challenge. That's what I do. Appreciate small things.

I play several alts, and none of them are higher than level 7. Yet, I'm having a blast. I can't imagine having any more fun at level 50.

quenyar
11-26-2009, 05:56 AM
http://thegrandnarrative.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/beating-a-dead-horse.gif

stormlord
11-26-2009, 06:02 AM
http://thegrandnarrative.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/beating-a-dead-horse.gif

He has a point. It's not beating a dead horse. The horse isn't dead. It's alive and well. Until we can boast 2500-3500 online players, then this horse will be alive and eating our grasses (and pooping in the forums).

Since I want to see an accurate picture of 1999, I want to make the best of it. Maybe we can work around it in ways not thought of before. Or maybe we can appreciate things we otherwise wouldn't have.

We always talk about "community", but what does that really mean? We depend on eachother now more than we did in 1999.

karsten
11-26-2009, 06:03 AM
i'm a paladin, one of the worst solo classes in the game. I leveled to 50 in full groups all the way from crushbone to solb, and, being from a pvp server where skins are thicker, I alienated every groupmember that I felt sucked at eq, gaining me the admiration and love of most of my peers, aka potential groupmates. In other words, if I can get groups (and i mentioned in other threads that I often made my own -- being proactive helps) then anyone should be able to.


less QQ dude, more PEW PEW

Tovok
11-26-2009, 06:29 AM
This is irrelevant, you aren't going to be able to solo as a warrior, rogue or whatever class either way past like level 10. Even a classic eq emulator needs to undergo certain changes to accommodate for the fact that they don't have very many people playing. Your points about gear and buffs don't address the problem of the lack of actual people playing. I'm on right now and theres 92 people on, hardly enough to even be able to form a group within each level range.

Back in early 2001 (I think) I leveled my Ogre Warrior to 31 mostly in groups in Kunark. Sometimes, when I didn't get a group, it would try to solo a blue sarnak (light blue didn't exist then). About half the time I'd get my ass handed to me, especially when they ran and I had no way to stop them but a lucky bash.

I eventually got fed up with my roommates (or at least, people I was playing in the same room with) watching TV instead of healing while my warrior died, so I rolled a Wizard. I leveled the wizard at least in part by finding single spawns where I knew the exact paths of walkers and the spawn time, and I could just nuke one down and med to full while doing homework in the six minutes between spawns.

The moral of the story is that soloing has historically sucked ass in EQ. Even when it was supposedly good, like quadding raptors in TD, it was still tedious, sucky, and dangerous.

I'm sure my story wasn't all that encouraging, and I really don't mean to jump on your case and be mean. Just wanted to point out that the Vision[TM] has fucked a lot of orifi in its day, but somehow we all come crawling back to it....

Casezilla
11-26-2009, 06:56 AM
More items, ports and binds will be nice, but the main issue here is that a class like a warrior is completely screwed without a group, or at least a partner that can heal. A lack of people to level up with during off hours is something that will probably get worse as the server matures, not better.

I started an enchanter last week, and while I've had some great groups, a majority of my time leveling has been spent solo, duo, or trio. I've played a lot during the middle of the night, and at least at low levels, there really isn't anyone to group with a lot of the time. One night I spent 4-6 hours LFG and didn't receive a single tell. That is something that would NEVER have happened during 1999. I also played a chanter on the combine, and I've already done more soloing on this server by level 12 than I'd done by level 60 on the combine. Had I decided to roll a warrior, I probably would have rerolled another class or quit all together by now.

I'm really feeling for untwinked low level warriors right now. I dragged a wars corpse to the zoneline in HHP as I was passing through last night. When he got to HHP to loot, he sent me a tell asking for an invis so he could run through as well. By that time I was already most of the way through EK and it was already 5am, so as much as I wanted to help, I couldn't turn back at that point. The war literally had no way to continue on to Qeynos short of back tracking to EC and trying the southern route through the rathe mountains and up through SK. It really made me realize that had I rolled a war, most of my time spent soloing would have been spent standing around picking boogers instead.

Widan raises a very good point. One of the most important "features" of old school EQ was the large number of people that played the game. The comparatively small population of this server is a huge blow to the effort to recreate the classic experience. Small deviations from classic to help counteract problems caused by low population could result in a more classic experience. Just something to consider. Perhaps we're getting close to the time when 2 (and only 2) boxing should be allowed, at least in some situations.

Halladar
11-26-2009, 08:47 AM
The recent melee fix made things easier. It's supposed tobe more accurate now. And you want it even easier?

It's still not right. I'm not exactly sure what ac is doing right now. But from my group experiences of the past few days, except for having more hp's warriors, sk's, and paladins don't tank any better than rogues.

No parses, but last night in Unrest a warrior was just taking too much damage from light blues and above. The guy was definitely experienced, and it looked like he was wearing bronze (didn't inspect him though). It just wasn't right, is all I can tell you.

I understand where you're coming from. Live classic servers had about 27x more players than I see when I play at project1999. That made a big difference. Everything from getting bufs, advice, groups, and so on. All of that was elevated greatly.

My opinion is that as the server matures, more and more items will be in circulation and more and more porters will be available as people make alts. The impact of all this will mean that levelling up will be easier for new people - assuming that all this wealth trickles down. In theory! If there're more druid alts (in theory) then that means that you should be able to find a bind/port because people could go on their alts to give you it. And if you're shopping for new gear, there should be a greater supply (items are tradeable and don't need repair). Additionally, all of these high levels running around will be able to buff you. A druid DS helps significantly. A cleric hp buff helps too.

This server reminds me of test server in old eq. Population when I played was almost exactly what we have here. When I jumped in it was year 2000 or so. Most of the population had played long enough to have maxxed level characters. The only people running around were alts (usually really twinked) and the occasional true noobie. There weren't as many people running around handing out buffs as you might think. You had a better chance of getting some if someone's friend showed up to pl, or someone two boxed a main. The high levels just weren't going through the areas the low levels were exp'ing in.

The sheer lack of people made it difficult to play a melee class. You were forced to solo. You could go days trying to find a group sometimes. Especially after level 10 or so. People made alts and played them, then a lot of times lost interest in them.

Also your location is a big deal. Last night I made a human sk of Bertoxxulus (I hate Innoruuk, pansy god.). I was the only person in N. qeynos for the 20 or so minutes I played him. Just like test the whole population works out of Freeport until kunark comes out. I'm sure at some point I can get someone to give me a port (I don't care what anyone says, that cross country run is not trivial unless you can invis), but qeynos, halas, and erudin are awful starting spots on a low population server.

Test really didn't have a market for low level items. Of course I wasn't hanging in EC to hear most of the time. You would be more likely to just have someone hand you some bronze than to see someone selling banded.

If there aren't any groups of your level, you can pretty much forget about upgrading your gear. Since most of the people you did group with were alts of mains, and had gear their mains got for them, they weren't interested in dungeons for the most part. Crushbone, and BB being exceptions. When they hit the teens the groups were in oasis pulling crocs. Not sure what happened in the 20's because I had enough by then.

I can also tell you a lot of times low level people didn't bother to group, not even melees. I'm not sure what kind of gear a rogue could be twinked with in classic so he could solo at level 15 or 20 but some of them did.

I'm not kidding you, however. Warriors, more than everyone else, will find it very difficult to solo. Best you can do is to grind platinum so that you can buy yourself great gear. This will in turn allow you to solo better.

I don't think it will help. There are some warrior items that soloing warriors used from later expansions. You need some way to get hp's back. Warrior soloing gear is the dagger that procs summon bandage, or just maybe a fungi.

An indispensible tool is some sort of slowing weapon. Truncheon of Doom is best, but good luck getting that.

You really have to pick your spot as a warrior, because you can't control adds or stop runners.

stormlord
11-26-2009, 09:10 AM
Back in early 2001 (I think) I leveled my Ogre Warrior to 31 mostly in groups in Kunark. Sometimes, when I didn't get a group, it would try to solo a blue sarnak (light blue didn't exist then). About half the time I'd get my ass handed to me, especially when they ran and I had no way to stop them but a lucky bash.

I eventually got fed up with my roommates (or at least, people I was playing in the same room with) watching TV instead of healing while my warrior died, so I rolled a Wizard. I leveled the wizard at least in part by finding single spawns where I knew the exact paths of walkers and the spawn time, and I could just nuke one down and med to full while doing homework in the six minutes between spawns.

The moral of the story is that soloing has historically sucked ass in EQ. Even when it was supposedly good, like quadding raptors in TD, it was still tedious, sucky, and dangerous.

I'm sure my story wasn't all that encouraging, and I really don't mean to jump on your case and be mean. Just wanted to point out that the Vision[TM] has fucked a lot of orifi in its day, but somehow we all come crawling back to it....

I try to focus less on leveling and more on just experiencing it. Going over the differenct quests in qeynos is kind of fun. Makes me wish there was more detail, more movement, more things going on. Makes me wish fishing had more progression - more detailed, more fish, etc. I like to do all sorts of things in EQ, not just kill things. Ironically, I actually artifically try to level slower because I like to appreciate the small things. It ends too quickly. Just the way I am. I like the lower levels. I love the home cities so much. I really do wish mmorpgs focused less on combat and instead did expansions for unrelated things. It seems everything revolves around killing something.

Anyone else out there not like to level too fast? Like to take it slow?

eqravenprince
11-26-2009, 11:31 AM
I would say have a soloing class that you can play at all times, but be on the lookout for groups around your non soloing classes level. Perhaps your character that can solo levels faster and can twink your non soloing class a bit.

Sloth
11-26-2009, 11:48 AM
I can't stand being lfg so. I always start my own groups. Its the best way to do it. If you build it they will come.

Halladar
11-26-2009, 12:05 PM
That works sometimes.

But that depends on:

1) You are in one of the areas everyone always goes. No pathing, train issues. Easy to get to. Good xp.

2) There is someone in the right level range to come.

It is decent (not great) at lower levels now. But 2 isn't going to be true for you in about 2 months if you are not in your late 30's or in the 40's.

Cribanox
11-26-2009, 12:50 PM
No matter how much you say "man up, make your own groups, try and experience the content solo", it still bowls down to not having enough players near you to form a group, and it being too hard to solo as a warrior. Bind wound can only get you so far.

Also I don't like the way you guys are describing this trickle down effect for the economy, not only is the gear not that great and probably way too expensive for the warrior to even consider... but youre assuming hes just gonna wait for everyone else in the game to become uber just so he can get their throw away gear?

I dont think that we should put extra hp regen in the game while youre out of combat or anything, but I dont see whats wrong with at least letting bind wound goto 100% health or something.

Dolalin
11-26-2009, 01:43 PM
All you people shitting on this guy are forgetting one thing: you need him. We all need him, and people like him entering the game and reinforcing the ranks, otherwise this server dies.

I know it's fashionable to feel superior to newbies, but look past your egos and cut them a goddamn break. He has valid points. I know we want pure 1999-era EQ, but we still might have to make allowances for the fact that this server is massively under-pop. Encouraging more people to start playing wouldn't be a bad thing.

Widan
11-26-2009, 01:45 PM
I realize that classic eq is supposed to be hard, and that warriors aren't ever supposed to be able to solo efficiently, but concessions need to be made so this server is not just populated by mages and necros and so that new players will continue to log on even if they pick a class that cannot solo.

It's probably worse in the fact that I'm on Faydwer, I was literally the only person in Crushbone yesterday :/

Halladar
11-26-2009, 02:55 PM
No matter how much you say "man up, make your own groups, try and experience the content solo", it still bowls down to not having enough players near you to form a group, and it being too hard to solo as a warrior. Bind wound can only get you so far.

Also I don't like the way you guys are describing this trickle down effect for the economy, not only is the gear not that great and probably way too expensive for the warrior to even consider... but youre assuming hes just gonna wait for everyone else in the game to become uber just so he can get their throw away gear?

I dont think that we should put extra hp regen in the game while youre out of combat or anything, but I dont see whats wrong with at least letting bind wound goto 100% health or something.

Way back when I read a guide a warrior (think it was a troll named Fitty) put on castersrealm or stratics.

He had some good advice, things like a "sit pull" (may not work here, but when it started to run, sit down immediately and it shouldn't go far, and will come back shortly, works pretty well outdoors), use weighted axe when pulling as a warrior (you might get double attack, then turn off autoattack and equip another weapon running back to group, "your own little harm touch").

One thing he said though, was that an indispensable part of being a warrior was spending time in EC, trying to get your hands on equipment "no warrior of your level should have."

An approach a lot of people have used in the past on new servers is to play a druid or necro and get to 50. Then farm plat or items so you can play the class you really want to play.

If you are playing without twinking or help I'm pretty sure you can get either of those classes to 50 in the time it takes you to get a warrior to 30.

Then you give your warrior or rogue or whatever a wavecrasher and full crafted. Probably the FSS. After a couple expansions crafted would be considered trash equipment, but you get the idea.

I can tell you though, that if you play a warrior straight up from day one, it is going to be pretty hard to acquire the kind of gear people expect on a warrior. You'll be 49 and people will say "you only have that many hit points?" Or "why aren't you holding aggro" (cause you don't have 2 j-sticks or a SOD or whatever).

If you want to play a warrior (or paladin or sk, cause they technically can solo but really can't; they are just too slow and can't do the content alone the caster classes can) unless you start on server day 1, you are going to use hand me down equipment.

It is the nature of this game.

Halladar
11-26-2009, 03:20 PM
i'm a paladin, one of the worst solo classes in the game. I leveled to 50 in full groups all the way from crushbone to solb, and, being from a pvp server where skins are thicker, I alienated every groupmember that I felt sucked at eq, gaining me the admiration and love of most of my peers, aka potential groupmates. In other words, if I can get groups (and i mentioned in other threads that I often made my own -- being proactive helps) then anyone should be able to.


less QQ dude, more PEW PEW

Yeah. You started on this server early right? You had a lot of cohorts in each level range.

It is different now.

And unless my guess is wrong it will be even more difficult at the low levels in a couple of months.

Reiker
11-26-2009, 03:29 PM
Warrior is a raid class... if you dont want to main-tank for a raid guild, don't roll a warrior.

ferris
11-26-2009, 03:30 PM
Actually he started when it was one month in. I had leveled with him at level 10 in Crushbone.

Now hes 50, and I'm 31. :(

stormlord
11-26-2009, 03:38 PM
Stamina loss was just removed. So now your warrior can wield those 2 handers at a lower level and do extra damage without losing stamina. My warrior now can wield the 2 handed sword without any loss and a 30+% damage gain over the 1 hander I had to use when my stamina got too low. My monk can now also dual wield 2 cracked staffs with no loss.

Things are getting easier. Don't leave too soon.

Tovok
11-26-2009, 04:13 PM
Warrior is a raid class... if you dont want to main-tank for a raid guild, don't roll a warrior.

Actually I think this has as much to do with the proliferation of casters as the difficulty does.

Aside from that, just wanted to say that I really don't want to get on the OP's case here. As I mentioned, I tried playing a warrior on live in 2001 (I think Velious was out), made it to 31, then got frustrated and rolled a caster. So, it's something that's happened before, at least.

I actually only ever met one guy who leveled to 60 on a melee untwinked. At one point, I had been able to actually afford an FBSS with funds from my wizard, so I went to revisit the melee. Turned out this friend of mine had no haste at 55 or so, so I took it off my twink and gave it to him. I wasn't worthy.

My other friends played druids, wizards, and enchanters. A couple of guys played melees early on, but wound up quitting.

I guess my point is that it seems like the situation here isn't all the different from what it was on live.

...

BTW, if any non-twinked melee ever sees me around in game, feel free to ask for help of any kind. Bind, invis, duo, bandages, whatever. You're more manly than me.

karsten
11-26-2009, 04:17 PM
just make your own groups guys -- use the energy that you're putting into these long winded posts and focus it towards proactive group creation. If all you find is one healer and one melee, just duo places until you get more.

Turn that frown UPSIDE DOWN!

Widan
11-26-2009, 04:48 PM
just make your own groups guys -- use the energy that you're putting into these long winded posts and focus it towards proactive group creation. If all you find is one healer and one melee, just duo places until you get more.

Turn that frown UPSIDE DOWN!

You don't get it. There literally was not 1 other person within my level range on the entire continent of Faydwer. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for bind wound to go to 100% or whatever other changes that could help melee classes solo.

I'm still playing my warrior don't get me wrong, leveling is just painful. It consists of me fighting a low blue con orc, then bandaging to 50% and doing it again. And this is with a fine steel weapon and full bronze that a higher level was nice enough to twink me out with.

I played live from the start so I know how hard some things can be, but if you ever realistically want this server to be as popular as other emu servers you need to make it more newbie accessible.

karsten
11-26-2009, 04:58 PM
no I think that it is you who do not get it

Widan
11-26-2009, 05:01 PM
Unless you have something constructive to add don't shit up my thread please.

karsten
11-26-2009, 05:13 PM
i already did twice sooooooooo, who's really the one not being constructive?

Halladar
11-26-2009, 05:21 PM
You contributed platitudes Karsten.

Not even a criticism, but how much of your time was spent in sola after level 20? I hear a lot of people were in that place. Not like it would have been a lot of work to make a group.

Widan all I can tell you is go to Freeport if you are determined to play a melee class.

Right now you still see people in ooc about derv and orc groups. Then you can go to oasis or to Unrest. Then I'm not sure. In the old days you would have gone to highkeep or maybe to Solusek if you got to be about 30. Then on to guk.

In the old days there were s. karana treant groups and all sorts of stuff i don't think we'll see again.

Anyway good luck. If you want to see insanely easy leveling make a necro though. The one I have is only level 4, but since you can get a red pet it is even more overpowered than live. It is probably something I just play with at times though.

karsten
11-26-2009, 05:29 PM
you chose to read the platitudes that I added at the end of posts in order to demonstrate the silliness of the original whine. /shrug

I think that too much focus is put on "what other people did that i can't do now" such that it creates a self-fulfilling prophecy for many of the people that would rather spend their time whining than leveling. For example, two assumptions about the way that I leveled were that 1. I started at day one on the server (incorrect, i started end of oct) and that I leveled up on gnomes in solA before the xp was nerfed (also incorrect, and actually the xp wasn't nerfed, it was just raised in other areas.)

Again, what it boils down to is whether or not a person wants to think proactively or whether they want to mire in mediocrity and look for excuses for already self-debilitating behavior

Halladar
11-26-2009, 05:42 PM
Karsten,

you aren't thinking things through.

So you got 50 levels in about a month right?

Tell me what areas you were in at each level range. Don't say it's too many, everyone knows that typically you stay in the same area for a few levels.

What was your progression? Also that is pretty darn fast, what is your /played?

Tell me your progression. Tonight I'll do a /w on each zone a couple times, then post in this thread what the population is at a certain time.

Also, to the best of your memory how many people were in these zones when you were leveling.

One month. How did you get your equipment? I mean did you camp it? Get it grouping?

Did someone in your guild give it to you?

I mean gosh, is it possible a lot of people who have maxxed were leveling when you were?

Don't speak in generalities. I want details.

karsten
11-26-2009, 06:06 PM
halladar: no, you're not thinking things through.

however, would be happy to help answer some of your questions. remember as you read my progression, that --> I often put together my own groups from scratch rather than waiting passively for someone to invite me and you can too <--

levels 1-4: gfay, newbie soloing

levels 5-12: crushbone, generally between 2 and 10 people there, I'd group with however few or many were in my range and xp accordingly

levels 13-18: oasis, assloads of people. I'd group with however few or many were in my range and xp accordingly

levels 19-21: mistmoore courtyard, generally had to make full groups and then have the group move there. there's sort of a nomansland in this area where you're too high level for crocs and too low for solA.

levels 22-29: solA goblins, there were tons of people here (there still are) but i still had to make my own groups for two reasons -- the first is that the zone attracted every last crappy player on the server and i didn't want to group with them, and the second is that those players would often group together and not want me in their groups after I made that clear. However, if you can't find a group at this level range in solA you're doing something wrong.

levels 30-34: lguk ass/sup, sometimes i'd have to start my own groups and move there, sometimes there'd be enough people around. because of the DE mask it's easy to get people who want to come.

levels 35+: solb, kill kobolds. there'd either be a group of people there or i'd make one and move there.

as far as equipment goes, i chose not to care about it. I had a fine steel 2her that i used until level 22 (they drop like candy and is very easy to get one for free, hell i'll give any newbie melee a FS 2her if you ask me) and then an obsidian flamberge in solA (no drop, very easy to get if you level there). I'm still wearing pieces of bronze, but it's not a problem -- a level 50 can camp gear better than a level 20, regardless of class, and be more efficient at it as well.

really though, this conversation is, for the most part, supurfluous. I do hope i'm able to help with some of the leveling area tips, but doing any sort of analysis based on your criteria is also not necessarily going to yield the correct conclusions. For example, often when putting groups together for mm, lguk, or solb, there would be nobody in those particular zones when putting the group together. therefore, doing a /who all for those zones at any particular point in time won't mean anything.

I had (and have) a list of friends of people that i mesh well with and I know will do well in groups with me. I'll send out tells to them and see if they want to group, then i'll fill holes accordingly, and move to specific places. It's really not rocket science -- I do assume you have a similar list, you seem like a bright guy -- utilize it

Jereziah
11-26-2009, 06:18 PM
I have to agree with Halladar on this one Karsten. Your argument that the OP suffers from self-debilitating behaviour, lack of motivation, lack of 'get up and go' enthusiasm is all irrelevant and misguided.

The universal theme here is this:

1) Most high level players right now were in front of the Project 1999 train. When the train started moving they simply strapped on some roller-skates and let it push them.
The sheer volume of players in your level group ensured you always (100% of the time) would have ample people to group with. If you managed to somehow miss a group, there would be a 2nd wave coming through in no time at all.

2) Most players who have started in the last 3 weeks or later, are trying to jump on a train that's moving already, doable? Yes - but much more difficult.
Players are now finding themselves without people in their level bracket, or without a group in a level-range that requires groups.

Now, let's clear up a few things before we continue posting:

1) You didn't start at the end of october, I began November 18th and you were level 45+ so unless you managed to pull off 45 levels in 18/19 days, you're lying. Most likely your rounding up and in fact started 5-8 days prior to that and logged dozens of hours in October before November even hit.

2) You can't possible relate to the OP as you are not and were not in the same scenario as he is. You started at a different time, with a different influx of players.

3) Melee have it rough, we know that. On a live server run by a professional organization, everyone takes it as is and makes the best of what they are given. We are not on a live server, we have passionate and very skilled server admins running this show. People whom, I can safely assume, would LOVE to see more players join our ranks.

It is for this reason that I believe some *small* changes could go a very, very long way to fostering the melee-leveling relationship.

I won't comment on what these should be, the purpose of this post is to help break down the barriers folks are putting up for fear of the players coming in behind them having a much easier time than they did. You need not be fearing of this, that's not the goal here. Relax, breath in, and recognize that this is a GAME. If we can make it *slightly* more fun and double our population in the process, why wouldn't we? At level 50 is it really going to matter whether or not a melee class can BIND WOUND to 100% or even 80%? Not really... so let's all take a step back and breath in the suggestion for what it is, a suggestion that holds the potential to round out one very pointed corner of this polygon we call Everquest.

Jereziah
11-26-2009, 06:27 PM
Karsten,

Your previous post has a lot of flaws in it. Assumptions and declarations made such as 'if you can't find a group in XYZ, you're doing something wrong' do nothing but increase your post-character count. You know as well as I do with 150 players online during XYZ hours, you have significantly more trouble finding players to group with than if you had 2,000 to 3,000 on a live server. Let's leave out the blanket no-value statements like that as they don't help at all.

Now, without actually posting on anything else you said, I think we can agree to disagree that some people find it hard to level, some don't. The question at this point is this:

Do we, as players and supporting people of Project 1999 feel that it would increase our player population if we supported some *minor* changes to help melee classes level more effectively?

To put it bluntly, this is Classic EQ. If we are fine to leave it as is then nothing gets changed and we all knew what to expect when we rolled our class.

However, if there's a large enough population to warrant it, minor tweaks could be made to help out those melee classes. NOT exp bonuses... trivial tweaks such as the suggested 'allow bandages to bandage past 50%'.

I'll exit the thread now as we've pretty well beat the perverbial dead horse... well... to death ;)

karsten
11-26-2009, 06:35 PM
No, the attempts to discredit my assertions based on incomplete knowledge are irrelevant and misguided. In fact, those two adjectives are so inappropriate to my comments that i wonder why you'd use them.

the universal theme here is whether or not a person wants to spend their time complaining about their situation or spend it bettering their situation. It's really an allegory to life, but I'd be digressing--

most high level players WERE in front of the project 1999 train. That makes sense though. Think about this though -- I'm actually not one of them, having started on this server on october 27th. The very fact that I've been able to level a hybrid is in complete contrast to what you're saying.

I've stated time and again about the challenges to me finding groups, including not having people in my level range, alienation, the fact that as a puller, pathing bugs get blamed on you, that sort of thing. In fact, as I got to 34+ it got even harder -- assuming you guys are somewhere between 15 and 30, that's where it should be the easiest for you to level.

Now, let's clear up a few things that are incorrect about your points:

1) Ask anyone when I started. In fact, if you read back the thread a bit, you'll see a post by someone i leveled with in crushbone.

2) You're right -- as previously stated, the deck was stacked even more against me.

3) The staff here is truly dedicated, and being on the dev/gm side of an emu server is one of the most thankless activities I can think of. However, I would offer that the staff's dedication to keeping the server as classic as possible has tended to trump other aspects.

Really though, again, we've all spent X amount of time posting when we could have been spending it leveling -- i've given what I believe to be a very handy blueprint for how to do it -- you can too!

karsten
11-26-2009, 06:42 PM
umm, jez in response to that second post, I do agree with you that some people have trouble leveling and some people don't, but that's based on the fact that some people are more proactive than others, as opposed to whether or not some classes can solo well and some others can't. And i think that's the pivotal point here

hey, there are things that i'd prefer to be different on the server too. I'd like to not have to wait on translocators, for example. I'd ventue though, based on my experiences thusfar, that the focus and vision of the server is to keep it as close to classic as possible as opposed to making changes in order to boost player population, especially if it's done in such a manner as to placate more vocal members of the community

now, all of that said, if there are melees out there that could use a hand leveling up, I'm more than happy to help if i can -- shoot me a tell!

Jereziah
11-26-2009, 07:12 PM
On a slightly less serious but equally important note, I have actually decided to reroll necro as my premiere toon on this server. Once 50, I expect I'll come back and help the bard along (Jereziah).

I figure while doable, it'll be easier to do it in this order and playing a necro is something I never did in classic (played mag then bst).

So, there's nothing left to do but dive in and the first step, as we all know... is to pick a Race/Diety/Name...

Suggestions?

PS: Saw the best EQ name ever just now... Elfis Questley

karsten
11-26-2009, 07:15 PM
bards are really a hard class to play on emu just in general, i leveled one to 60 on vztz and promptly stopped playing him -- if you want to stick with your bard jere i'd be happy to help if i can, the server could really use more

Widan
11-26-2009, 07:20 PM
Log on and try to start a Crushbone group at 3am est. It doesn't matter how proactive you are, people just are not online. When I logged off this morning there were only 73 people playing, and that counts people who just left the client at the character select screen. Many of these players were either close to 50 or sub level 5.

And if you've read my previous posts I stated that I am still leveling my warrior, because that's the class I want to play. I'm not sure how taking a few moments to post my concerns on the forums is somehow making me less proactive in the matter.

I understand the want to keep this server classic, but I think one of the main goals should be increasing the player base as well. Someone who isn't as big of a masochist as me is not going to stick around if their first impression of the server is trying to level up a melee class.

Edit: Can you not kite efficiently with bards here? They should be the one melee class that this thread really doesn't apply to.

karsten
11-26-2009, 07:27 PM
yeah, i see what you're saying, i'd say that the night before thanksgiving ought not to serve as the ideal time though. Even right now though i'm seeing plenty of people /oocing for tanks. What level are you? I'd be happy to shoot you a FS weapon or some plat for bronze or something

Halladar
11-26-2009, 07:46 PM
Edit: Can you not kite efficiently with bards here? They should be the one melee class that this thread really doesn't apply to.

I have no idea what the deal with them is here right now, but you don't see many.

It is a rule of everquest though, bards are either insanely broken, or nerfed to death.

There is no in between.

Casezilla
11-26-2009, 07:47 PM
I spent a lot of time playing between 12am and 8am PST this last week, and there really are times when there isn't anyone to group with at certain level ranges, especially in some locations, and especially if you are trying to find someone with specific abilities, like healing. It has nothing to do with not being proactive and everything to do with a low population.

Jereziah
11-26-2009, 07:48 PM
Yeah - you can kite. For me though I play sporadically. 1.5 hours before work in the AM (around 5:30 - 7:00 AM PST) and then a block of 3 hours in the evening usually. So, while the evening block lends it self nicely to grouping, the morning one not so much.

I'm thinking what is going to happen is this. I'll make a necro, get him to 50. Use him to farm up twinking items for my bard, sol ro armor items, etc. Once Kunark comes out and the game changes into an outside one (as opposed to the indoor theme pre-kunar offers) I imagine my bard will be 50 and I'll be loving it.

So, I'm ultimately planning on being a bard in Kunark, but feel I'll satisfy my lust for 50 via a necro first, then help the bard along making his leveling experience a bit easier.

Please don't think of this as a deterrent or acceptance that melee's are hard, because while they are, yes, my reasons for swapping are that of personal play-style preference and desires to try out skelly-pet fights and necro-dungeon crawling.

karsten
11-26-2009, 07:51 PM
I spent a lot of time playing between 12am and 8am PST this last week, and there really are times when there isn't anyone to group with at certain level ranges, especially in some locations, and especially if you are trying to find someone with specific abilities, like healing. It has nothing to do with not being proactive and everything to do with a low population.

playing in the middle of the night, check

Zarniwooop
11-26-2009, 08:11 PM
It's still not accurate.

We still miss with maxed melee skills VASTLY More than the mobs do.

If I need to supply parses I will.

The playing field isn't supposed to be even, and maybe it's fine as is, but melee are going to struggle. I wish there was a way to rapidly boost the population to 500 at peak times. That alone would go a long way towards fixing the issues.

Gonna be bleak leveling another character when the server gets top heavy.

yaaaflow
11-26-2009, 08:11 PM
playing in the middle of the night, check

12am to 8am PST is the middle of the night everywhere in the world, check.


Stereotypical American ignorance, check.

Halladar
11-26-2009, 08:23 PM
I think the game is probably more popular in US than anywhere else.

I'd guess that 80% of the player base is american. Just a guess though.

Night and early morning american night owls and europeans? maybe some people from asia?

Dolalin
11-26-2009, 08:28 PM
This thread has devolved to a circle jerk.

Something will have to be done to encourage newbies to play, and soon. Whether you agree or disagree is irrelevant to this reality.

Jereziah
11-26-2009, 08:53 PM
Agreed.

Reiker
11-26-2009, 09:58 PM
I don't get this whole "everyone is already level 50 I can't level now cause there's no one to group with!"

It's 9 PM on Thanksgiving. Not exactly the most populous of times. However...

Crushbone: 5 players (hey look, there's a spot open right now!)

Oasis: 11 players. All teens.

Mistmoore: 7 players. All low 20s.

Sola: 5 players. Hey look, if I was ~24, I'd have a group waiting for me here too.

Lower guk: 12 players. A group of 50s, a group of 30s.

Solb: 9 players in their 40s.

Basically, at a very low population time, there's players to go group with at every level range. And that is just if you go into a zone and try to get into a pre-made group, which is lazy. Let's say you're level 17... /who all 15 20. List is cut off. Most people are in freeport or butcherblock... I bet I could form my own group right now at level 17. Same goes for any level range. I just don't understand this whole "the game is too hard now that the game's been out 2 months!" mentality.

I rolled my character a month late... about November 3rd. Hit 50 around Nov. 18th. 90% grouping, usually with Karsten and others I've met in-game who knew how to play well. It can be done, mang.

Reiker
11-26-2009, 10:22 PM
Another thing, there's a lot of underutilized zones, guys. CT has been fixed nicely. The exp is huge. The loot is great. Try it out!

Edit:

One more thing... this topic reminded me of...

http://www.gucomics.com/comics/2000/gu_20000724.jpg

Halladar
11-26-2009, 11:15 PM
I don't get this whole "everyone is already level 50 I can't level now cause there's no one to group with!"

It's 9 PM on Thanksgiving. Not exactly the most populous of times. However...



Actually the lower levels are much better tonight than they have been.

Same goes for any level range. I just don't understand this whole "the game is too hard now that the game's been out 2 months!" mentality.

You read the arguments do with them what you will. Actually I think you are tearing down a strawman though.

I rolled my character a month late... about November 3rd. Hit 50 around Nov. 18th. 90% grouping, usually with Karsten and others I've met in-game who knew how to play well. It can be done, mang.

Now this is the thing that really gets me.

You made level 50 in 2 weeks. That doesn't seem unusual to you? You are probably going to take this as an accusation, but I never heard of anyone doing this on live unless they had their own druid hanging over them, or their guildies were helping. Or the original tumpy tonic thing on live. Not sure what this latest Kaladim thing was.

You know I think it is probably possible here. If you get a group of people experienced at this game, used to working together, know all the right spots.

Unless the guise or manastone or jboots are involved I doubt you have to wait for a camp.

And maybe have just a little help from other people who have made the slog. Yeah I can see it.

Reiker that story doesn't pass the smell test. For that to happen, you have to have no downtime forming groups, no debacles and cr's that waste a night.

You just decided to start one day, and by crackey you meet some like minded positive individuals and form highly efficient groups that don't screw around by the power of positive thinking? When I form groups it can take an hour to get everyone in one spot, then someone has to leave for real life, someone gets pissed off, we might get trained by some individual camping something, you can't find a cleric, you can't find a warrior...

Hmmm I don't think you are lying, but I don't think your experience is very useful. There is something awful screwy about you guys.

Reiker
11-26-2009, 11:35 PM
Okay let's break it down. I averaged about 4 levels / day (/played). That's 16% an hour. Do you really think gaining 16% of a level for every hour is that crazy?

karsten
11-26-2009, 11:38 PM
actually reiker has a meth hookup and when he's talking about 4 levels/day, he really means 24 hour days

i didn't level as fast, all i've got is coke and access to copious amounts of lady gaga music

karsten
11-26-2009, 11:41 PM
12am to 8am PST is the middle of the night everywhere in the world, check.


Stereotypical American ignorance, check.

hey, du kannst ja meinen was du willst -- die hauptsache ist, dass die meisten, die hier speilen, auch in den USA wohnen. Hat also in dem sinne ueberhaupt nicht mit deinen behauptungen zu tun


oops, stereotype BUSTED

Widan
11-26-2009, 11:47 PM
Okay let's break it down. I averaged about 4 levels / day (/played). That's 16% an hour. Do you really think gaining 16% of a level for every hour is that crazy?

So you had 12 days played in 15 days? This thread doesn't apply to you, it's to help make the game more accessible for the casual player, who is in the majority.

Reiker
11-26-2009, 11:47 PM
basically.

Halladar
11-26-2009, 11:48 PM
Yeah I do.

Okay you made 4 levels a day? Played? that already means you played 12.5 days.

In 15 days.

Right now my thinking is:

1) You played a class that is unbalanced right now, mage or necro.

or
2) You had help from some higher level people.

or
3) Most probably you have grouped with people that played everquest with you before. I think it is possible, though I think you played more than 4 hours a day.

So, you never played eq with karsten (assuming for the moment, you aren't karsten) in eq before? The people you grouped with for the most part aren't people you knew from other times in eq?

Like I said. the story is screwy. You can get 16% (actually better than that I think, I got a level in oasis in about two or 3 hours the other day) an hour in certain spots where you can get steady safe pulls. Which is why all those people are in oasis. But it dries up when you level past that and you have to go to the next spot.

Even with only 168 or so (last time I checked) on this server, I haven't grouped more than once or twice with the same people. Make all the comments you want, but it isn't because I'm alienating people.

And another thing. You guys aren't camping to get equipment. If you have a melee, you are your equipment.

Like I said your story is screwy.

Reiker
11-26-2009, 11:52 PM
Karsten is a melee. I had jboots, guise, camped a manastone, all before I was 50... I play a lot, but that's not the point. That's why I broke my leveling down to 16% / hour.

Casezilla
11-27-2009, 12:56 AM
It's 9 PM on Thanksgiving. Not exactly the most populous of times.

....

Basically, at a very low population time, there's players to go group with at every level range.
I agree that those numbers aren't that bad and finding a group at any level range is possible, but that's not a very low population time. Yes, its Thanksgiving, but 9PM EST is pretty prime time if you ask me. The times I'm talking about are the middle of the night when there's often no one in many of those zones. That's when some classes are screwed. EQ isn't supposed to be a game that can only be experienced during prime time US hours. I have a feeling in a few months certain level ranges are going to be like this even during more normal hours. Its definitely an issue that should be considered so new players and off hour players aren't discouraged down the road.

Dolalin
11-27-2009, 04:32 AM
Given time, pop will trend towards 99% of players at level 50, and a vast wasteland below it. This wasteland will cease being a grouping game, and become soloers or people being powerlevelled.

This WILL happen. NO question about it.

What will be our reaction?

That's the important question. Because there's attrition at level 50. Some number of people will quit every week. If you have no newbies coming in, and people slowly quitting at level 50, the server dies. That's how it always happens, in every game. Old EQ, DAoC, Vanguard, WAR, WoW, on and on...the same story, over and over again.

Right now, we're seeing the early warning signs of real problems for new players. This community better sit down and decide what to do, right now, and not put this off any longer. If we're not willing to accommodate people, they're not gonna roll new chars here, and we're up shit creek.

In a month or so, considering adjusting the XP curve for newbies, or even tweaking things like bind wound; those are going to seem gentle options, compared to how desperate for new blood we may become.

Reiker
11-27-2009, 04:33 AM
We're not at that point. Like 2% of the population is at 50. When it gets worse, they may open up boxing. No point really getting worried about it.

Dolalin
11-27-2009, 04:37 AM
I didn't say we were at that point.

I said we should plan what to do once we get there. Because it won't be long. A month or two at the outside.

Why not have the action plan ready now, and ready to go once the situation arises? We know it's coming. Why wait until the last possible minute? That's an ostrich mentality.

Bubbles
11-27-2009, 04:50 AM
Karsten GRINDED.

No one should be questing his integrity or dedication.

He picked about the worst race for a insanely hard to level class, and from day one he grinded and formed groups and gutted it out the legit way.

I solo'd a cleric for the vast majority of my grinding. I didnt kill gnomes, dorfs, guards or any of the short cuts.

I never got an XP res that I didnt cast on myself coming up. Which means i didnt get any at all till 39+.

This game is not overly hard. I did plenty of soloing on my warrior, who wasnt even remotely as twinked as anyone thought. Hell I didnt have a PGT, a cloak, a mask, earrings, belt, or any of that jazz. I had an Obsidian Scimitar. And judicious use of bind wound and picking my spots (vital) I had little trouble grinding up through the ranks, playing that silly time slot of midnight to 8am EST.

Get the heck out of fayder. Your up and coming groups now are in eccommons, nro and oasis. There's zero reason to go to fayder until unrest/mistmoore becomes a reality. Those CB Belts won't help you if you cannot find groups.

You're a warrior, go where the shaman and clerics are. Hint: you wont find shamans anywhere near Fayder until they can SOW at 9, and evil race shammys are going to hit Guk and Oasis cuz it's closer to home.

You simply cant stand around on fayder and complain that you can't find groups. It's the obvious ending to a bad movie: there aren't many groups on fayder, and the majority of your classes starting there (esp this late in the game) are enchanters and mages and wizards and other classes that dont mesh well with a warrior. Most Dorf Clerics are going to hop right on that boat to FP, cuz that's where the action is.

Go where the clerics are. If you still can't find groups, figure out if you can change the times of day you play. If that doesnt work, re-roll as something that can solo till groups become available. I can tell you right now a naked mage or necro is going to have a lot more options than an armored tank.

You have to mold yourself to the server.. You can't pick the lousiest time of day to play and the most group-dependant class and expect us to play you sonatas on the worlds tiniest violins. Karsten is right: be pro-active. If that doesnt change your luck around, then simply re-roll.

If you get to freeport and still cant find any action to get in on, then you *tried*. But if you are married to crushbone or blackburrow, you are putting yourself in the hands of fate. And Fate is a cruel, cruel b!tch.

hugs : o

Widan
11-27-2009, 04:53 AM
It's like you didn't even read the thread.

Edit: Your points have all been brought up and addressed, feel free to read from the first post to the end. It isn't the poopsockers who hold games together, it's the casual player.

Bubbles
11-27-2009, 05:00 AM
I didn't say we were at that point.

I said we should plan what to do once we get there. Because it won't be long. A month or two at the outside.

Why not have the action plan ready now, and ready to go once the situation arises? We know it's coming. Why wait until the last possible minute? That's an ostrich mentality.

Welcome to Project 1999. The land of lacking foresight and knee-jerk reactions.

In all seriousness though, from day one this server swelled far and beyond what anyone forecast. An admirable job has been done along the way to keep this place functionally and slightly resembling the state of EQ in 1999.

By the time this 'problem' comes to fruition, there will be a zillion iksar monks and shaman running around to form the basis of groups for all the stragglers. It should fix itself splendidly. Believe me when i say not everyone has a mage/cleric duo or druid that is going to gleefully follow them form 1-50 on their alts.

No matter what way you slice it, those coming up in the next gen of this server are going to have it easier: better geared groupmates, xp resses, high level buffs, almost classic potions and poisons, FIXED quests, a boatload of beta-tested content, and a ecnomy that sells the stuff they need to level for pennies on the dollar.

It will all be okay. Anyone who's struggling mightily should probably head back to WoW and hit that loot pinata a few more times and solo to their hearts content. We all know this game is difficult and heartbreaking going into it. If you roll a group-needing, gear-dependant class, you should know going in your are making life difficult on yourself. :)

Bubbles
11-27-2009, 05:08 AM
It's like you didn't even read the thread.

oh i read it. I read all of it. and I'm never getting that time back.

If i didn't read it, I would have posted "TLDR" or "Don't Care".

I addressed both major issues in my posts that came up in the thread. If you don't agree with me thats fine.

I wasn't going to bust out a magic wand and presto-chango a fayder group or soloing gear for you.

Go to freeport/oasis area.. Move on to Unrest/Mistmoore/Guk/SolA. Profit. If the hours you play aren't helping you out any, change your hours or switch to a different class. /shrug. What else can we tell you?

Melee had *serious* issues until the patch last week. They've seen a remarkable improvement. The GMs handed out 1/4 pound hamburgers and this thread is basically pounding on the table demanding fries and a shake, too.

If the whole point of this thread is simply "The Casual Player gets left behind in EQ", well then bravo. That was something we all didnt realize and something that hasn't been going on since 1999....

err wait it has.

You can't solo efficiently. This is obvious. You can't find groups on Fayder.. This is obvious. You have trouble finding groups anywhere at off-peak hours. This is obvious. Karsten comes in and tells you how he grinded through without getting any special perks, and you basically $#!t all over him. We can lead you to water. We can't make you drink. What we cant do is destroy our integrity like Sony and give you mounts and mercenarys and a never ending supply of quests that give you XP instead of killing monsters and fast porting and whateverthehellelse happened after I said goodbye mid-Veilous. This ain't the place to find any of that... you can pop on a blindfold and pick any other server and have that kind of experience.

This server is hard? Good. It's supposed to be. If the casual player who won't leave their comfort zone leveled like mad and breezed through content, we'd be playing WoW or EQ expansion #37 Tales of Fippy or whatever. :)

Widan
11-27-2009, 05:12 AM
No, you certainly did not. Otherwise you wouldn't have posted this:


Go to freeport/oasis area.. Move on to Unrest/Mistmoore/Guk/SolA. Profit. If the hours you play aren't helping you out any, change your hours or switch to a different class. /shrug. What else can we tell you?


These are unreasonable demands of the casual gamer. I don't see how you can expect to entice new players to continue on this server with replies of play different hours or play a different class.

Also, this is not EQ, this is an emu. You cannot survive without the casual gamer.

Bubbles
11-27-2009, 05:25 AM
No, you certainly did not. Otherwise you wouldn't have posted this:



These are unreasonable demands of the casual gamer. I don't see how you can expect to entice new players to continue on this server with replies of play different hours or play a different class.

Oh i read all that.

Notice the first sentence which provided viable options, and then further alternatives if those options weren't up to snuff?

This is a 1999 classic EQ emulated server. It isn't aimed toward the casual guy who blindly clicks on the emu list. We aren't exactly mass-advertising. That isn't our target audience. This server is an exercise in nostalgia for those that miss the classic game the way Brad and Gordon and John intended. That game wasn't favorable to the casual player either.

I simply don't understand what you want us to say here.

I could start a thread saying how we arent attracting enough hot chicks to the server, and we'd come to pretty much the same conclusion.

Here's an idea: make a list of demands, something we can follow along with and maybe we'll get something constructive out of all of this.

If you're going to continue to yell "It's too hard!" "Its not casual-friendly" while covering your ears, not much is gonna come out of it.

For the record : I was 100% against them messing with the boat translocators for *exactly* this reason. Anyone with connections wouldn't care, and it would drastically eff over the casual player. Don't assume we are against you, or even not on your side in the first place. Just cuz we speak from the hip, give it straight, and dont sugar coat our opinions doesn't mean we don't care. We really do.

If you need a buff or a res or a port, we can make that happen. If you want a bunch of people to be meandering between level 10-30 during off peak hours, that's a *much* taller order. ;)

Reiker
11-27-2009, 05:33 AM
Lol advice = unreasonable demands

Widan
11-27-2009, 05:37 AM
Yes, because saying play a different class or change your real life schedule around for an emu is advice. :rolleyes:

Reiker
11-27-2009, 05:53 AM
there's no magical different solution we're not telling you. you're not gaining exp at a rate which you are ok with. the options are reroll, move, or change time schedule. that's it. nothing else. end thread.

karsten
11-27-2009, 06:03 AM
or just play better (tm-- knoxx)

stormlord
11-27-2009, 06:08 AM
Welcome to Project 1999. The land of lacking foresight and knee-jerk reactions.

In all seriousness though, from day one this server swelled far and beyond what anyone forecast. An admirable job has been done along the way to keep this place functionally and slightly resembling the state of EQ in 1999.

By the time this 'problem' comes to fruition, there will be a zillion iksar monks and shaman running around to form the basis of groups for all the stragglers. It should fix itself splendidly. Believe me when i say not everyone has a mage/cleric duo or druid that is going to gleefully follow them form 1-50 on their alts.

No matter what way you slice it, those coming up in the next gen of this server are going to have it easier: better geared groupmates, xp resses, high level buffs, almost classic potions and poisons, FIXED quests, a boatload of beta-tested content, and a ecnomy that sells the stuff they need to level for pennies on the dollar.

It will all be okay. Anyone who's struggling mightily should probably head back to WoW and hit that loot pinata a few more times and solo to their hearts content. We all know this game is difficult and heartbreaking going into it. If you roll a group-needing, gear-dependant class, you should know going in your are making life difficult on yourself. :)

I kind of agree. I don't think many people here realize that the economy is going to get so full of items (over time) that their price will go down. It will be trivial (compared to today) to get items that're now expensive. Few (or none) of them are no drop (in modern eq almost everything is attunable or no drop). They can be traded. This will make things easier. As you say, there will be high level shamans/clerics/druids buffing people. I've already seen it happen. In modern EQ we don't see these kinds of mechanics because high levels can't buff low levels and items aren't trade-able once worn. For people new to this set of circumstances, it'll be a journey (with pitfalls/treasure).

People who play now are the explorers, the path finders, the builders. You're setting the groundwork for tomorrow. You're getting the economic engine going. Your job is to fill the economy with loot and your own generosity. I honestly believe that people here are underestimating the points I've made about items being tradeable and more people with high level shaman/druid/enchanter/cleric alts. The reason they're doing this is simple enough. It takes time for this to happen. They want results now. They fail to realize there're people who will play in these conditions and enjoy it. They're the builders. They'll play no matter how hard it's. Besides, my viewpoint is that whether or not new players in the future can survive well is not really important. What's important is that this is faithful to classic. This is a memoir of classic eq. If it dies, maybe that's a good thing, eh? It could always restart, or maybe we'd just move on. So what.

I would rather the server stay classic, and not increasingly mudflate to survive. If it dies, at least it dies with dignity. (Keep in mind that when kunark gets released, that by itself is a dose of mudflation. We already have high levels of mudflation due to all of the eq veterans and the internet. We have it hard, but if we mudflate as much as modern EQ did in the past, then we're going to end up with the exact same circumstances that made us come here (death w/o dignity?). If we can't find some other way to work this out, without mudflating project1999 every step of the way, then we're going to feel like all this time was wasted repeating past mistakes.)

Death with dignity. This is about classic. Pay your respects to its memory. Leave, if you have to. Or change how you play.

Mudflation:
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=7276&postcount=7

Elerion
11-27-2009, 06:38 AM
First off, playing an untwinked warrior or rogue in EQ is hard, no way around it. It's a terrible choice for a casual gamer. "Switch classes" is a perfectly valid argument. There's no coincidence that the server is heavy on non-gear dependent classes that can solo if necessary, or at the very least be useful in most random duos/trios.

Second, if you want groups, you have to go where groups are. I played a lot at off-peak times this week on my wizard and went from level 1 to 14. After level 5, I soloed probably for an hour, the rest was spent grouping, mostly in full groups. How, you ask? I did a "/who all x y", sent tells to people in my level range, and went to where people were (misty-ec-nro-oasis in my case). I formed my own groups by finding 1-2 people and filling up as we went. By the looks of it, this would be easy to do until the 30s at least, it seemed a bit less populated in the final 20 level stretch.

Work to get groups. It's not impossible, but you may have to move to a different part of the world. And if you're not a masochist, choose a class that can at least solo for some xp while you wait for that group. There are no classes in classic EQ that can solo untwinked for better xp than a decent group anyway, so all you have to do is find those people in your level range and meet up with them.

stormlord
11-27-2009, 06:53 AM
First off, playing an untwinked warrior or rogue in EQ is hard, no way around it. It's a terrible choice for a casual gamer. "Switch classes" is a perfectly valid argument. There's no coincidence that the server is heavy on non-gear dependent classes that can solo if necessary, or at the very least be useful in most random duos/trios.

Second, if you want groups, you have to go where groups are. I played a lot at off-peak times this week on my wizard and went from level 1 to 14. After level 5, I soloed probably for an hour, the rest was spent grouping, mostly in full groups. How, you ask? I did a "/who all x y", sent tells to people in my level range, and went to where people were (misty-ec-nro-oasis in my case). I formed my own groups by finding 1-2 people and filling up as we went. By the looks of it, this would be easy to do until the 30s at least, it seemed a bit less populated in the final 20 level stretch.

Work to get groups. It's not impossible, but you may have to move to a different part of the world. And if you're not a masochist, choose a class that can at least solo for some xp while you wait for that group. There are no classes in classic EQ that can solo untwinked for better xp than a decent group anyway, so all you have to do is find those people in your level range and meet up with them.

Anybody playing right now is probably a masochist in one way or another. I think we're here because of EQ's memory. Most of us will play no matter how tough it gets. Just being in qeynos and breathing the air feels rejuvenating. It makes me think about what I really want to see in mmorpgs. To sum it up, I want to see less combat and less UI (user interface). I'm fine with detail, I love it. I like things to be complicated. What I really want to see, though, is progression that's unrelated to combat. I want more things to do that don't involve me killing something. I want to progress things that don't (necessarily) progress my level, but yet can be used to define me as a distinct person in the game world. It's the emotions that I hold onto, those are the things that mean something to me. My level is of no consequence. Even my gear matters little to me, if I can't have a meaningful identity to seperate myself from the faceless crowd.

In other words, if you're a masochist, you don't let your level or gear define your mood. That's why you can take punishment.

Halladar
11-27-2009, 08:25 AM
there's no magical different solution we're not telling you. you're not gaining exp at a rate which you are ok with. the options are reroll, move, or change time schedule. that's it. nothing else. end thread.

No one complaining in this thread seems to be obsessed with how quickly they gain experience, Sir Bob.

That's all you dog.

I guess if all you got is a hammer, everything is a nail.

Bubbles, you bring up the mudflation angle. Without a bazaar, I'm not sure that will happen. At least not in the way you seem to be predicting.

I think probably people will just give stuff away.

My guess is the low level population is going to be healthy all this weekend, then back to 'normal' next week.

We'll see how this plays out in the long run.

karsten
11-27-2009, 09:37 AM
did you basically just say "i guess you guys are right until you're wrong?"




btw, halladar, you're a shaman, one of the best soloing classes in the game

Danth
11-27-2009, 09:45 AM
"I think we're here because of EQ's memory."

That may be true for you, Stormlord, but not for me. I don't care about the nostalgia. I'm here because I like the combat pacing (button pushes per minute) and the dungeon design. Those two aspects of old EQ simply have not been improved upon in newer MMOG's. I suspect that or similar reasons hold true for most of the people here. Nostalgia may have peaked interest in the server, but the folks who stay do so because they genuinely like this game. Plenty of people who *only* wanted the nostalgia quit by level 10 or 15.

Non-solo melee classes undeniably have a hard time here relative to a populated server. However, you knew that at class creation. You're not going to see me complaining about Paladins' lack of raid utility--although I often did back in the day--for the same reason. The people playing here have the benefit of hindsight. We know what we're getting ourselves in to. Frankly, if I didn't have my wife with me, I'd likely have quit by now.

While that's an individual player's perspective, from a more global perspective the request for bind wound to work to 100% health seems reasonable. It would help out Warriors, Rogues, and Monks while harming nobody. Look at it this way folks, perhaps it'd stave off the introduction of two-boxing for some additional months. As such I support the motion.

Danth

Halladar
11-27-2009, 10:08 AM
Karsten I said what I said. Let's see how it plays out.

To be truthful, I think I have a more accurate idea of how things are going to develop than you do.

Edit: I just happened to think. Maybe we have the same idea of what it is going to stabilize at. Only thing is I think it is a bug, not a feature. Maybe what we want from this game is too different for us to have meaningful communication.

I believe I have logic and the weight of having seen at least one other server that had a roughly similar rule set and population. Eerily it also had a very experienced population base too. That was test server, as I have mentioned previously.

As I said I think I'm right about a prediction I'll spell out here. You are going to have a clump of people at the top end. The little low level activity there will be, will be alts of people who are maxxed level. It won't be a friendly place or even fun to level up.

I guess it will be a regular eq server, just with a low population. Which makes a lot of things harder. Basically you are going to see the same old people over and over, just with different faces.

There won't be much of an economy. Or even reason to have one for the most part. One smith could take care of the whole servers needs honestly. Or one tailor (well maybe not if cultural was in with velious).

On the up side, eventually it will probably get to the point where someone makes a shadowknight and you pass them in the bank and say "wow you are level 1? hey I have a moss in the bank, and it would be a shame to vendor it. here ya go." Then the sk will go out all by himself and bash stuff till he gets enough levels to play with everyone else. They still won't be easy levels.

And as for playing a shaman? Well I believe what I am saying of course. About how frustrating it is, and will be to play a melee (until advanced mudflation which might be a year or so down the road).

BTW, shamans are good at "dick waving" soloing. Practically mages, necros, wizzies (when they get snare at 29), enchanters and bards if charm or swarm kiting or whatever isn't broken this week, and of course druids are all better at "practical" soloing. Necros definitely have a bigger "boner" than shamans. And sometimes enchanters and bards can make a shaman look like he needs viagra of the wolf.

I picked shaman because it is group friendly and can solo. A druid would have been a better pick for me honestly, but there are just too damn many.

I would play my sk, but other than fool around with him in qeynos I'm not going to do much with him. And if there is a hybrid penalty I probably never will do much with him. (funny thing though, I got level 3 with him, human sk bertoxxulus, and it sure doesn't feel like he has an exp penalty at all)

Anyway that is all I got on this topic. Time will tell. And if I get bored, I can always just not log in. And I'm getting pretty close to being bored now.

Danth
11-27-2009, 10:19 AM
"I would play my sk, but other than fool around with him in qeynos I'm not going to do much with him. And if there is a hybrid penalty I probably never will do much with him. (funny thing though, I got level 3 with him, human sk bertoxxulus, and it sure doesn't feel like he has an exp penalty at all)"

While slightly off-topic, I'll answer this for you (one post and done--an acceptable derail, I think). Hybrids most assuredly possess a steep experience penalty on P1999. Confirmation takes the form my my wife's Cleric gaining roughly 2 yellow bubbles worth of experience over my Paladin per level. As such the only way she and I remain equally-leveled is due to our determination. I play a lot more than she does, and if she pulls ahead too much, she suicides back down. Obviously we wouldn't need either of those measures if our classes leveled at the same rate.

Danth

Casezilla
11-27-2009, 11:04 AM
In my opinion, the only real issue in this thread is not having anyone to group with at certain times. Some classes are completely reliant on other players to get anything done and therefore are screwed when this happens. This reliance on others is great and one of the things that made classic EQ such a great game, but being screwed due to a lack of players online is not classic EQ at all.

This is not about XP being too slow, or having to go to specific areas to find groups (this was true in classic too), or having to be proactive to find and create groups, or not having good enough items available, etc.

One suggested solution was to play at different times. In my opinion, this is a ridiculous suggestion. Anyone willing to reschedule their life around an emulated EQ server has bigger issues than not being able to find a group.

Another suggestion was to allow players to bind wound to 100%. This would reduce the impact of not having players to group with for some classes, but it is far from an ideal solution. The stated goal of the server is to recreate classic EQ, and binding wound to 100% certainly isn't classic EQ. Also, IIRC some classes (at least monks?) were able to bind wound up to 70% if they got their skill high enough (without AA). Allowing all classes to bind to 100% takes away a defining feature of these classes.

Another was to re-roll as a class with solo ability. Working with what you have now (normal bind wound, no boxing, etc.), this is the best solution. If you know warriors are screwed if there's no one to group with, and you know you'll be playing at times when there may be no one to group with, then rolling a warrior isn't the greatest idea. I don't think this is the ideal approach though, because I do think someone should be able to play the class they want to play regardless of play time. Also, it could lead to a very non-classic class distribution. Regardless, making a warrior (or rogue, etc.) knowing how the server actually is now and complaining about the situation you've put yourself into is silly. Reroll for the time being and come back to your desired class if and when something's changed that makes that class more viable for you.

While rerolling certainly works, it couldn't hurt to at least discuss alternatives that would fix the problem without limiting the class choice of off-hour gamers.

I think implementing some sort of boxing is the ideal solution. The source of the problem being discussed is a lack of characters online at certain times. Boxing increases the amount of characters online without sacrificing anything classic. I know boxing has been discussed to death on these forums, but I think some sort of limited boxing can be implemented in a way that fixes the "I play a warrior and there's no one online to group with atm" problem without creating many of the problems that the anti-boxing crowd fears. It is all about attaching enough penalties to boxing so that there's minimal appeal unless you absolutely need it, and/or forbidding it unless certain conditions are met.

Here's some ideas:
* Large XP penalty on both characters when both are online simultaneously
* Boxing only allowed when the server population is bellow X players
* Boxing only allowed when the population of characters between levels X and Y falls bellow Z, and then boxed characters must be between levels X and Y (having multiple rules like this to cover different level ranges)
* Boxing forbidden in certain zones (ex: fear, hate, sky, maybe solb, lguk and perma too)
* Boxed characters must be within X levels of each other
* Boxed characters cannot engage certain mobs
* Magic items do not drop from monsters killed by boxed characters
* Add some sort indication so that other players know when someone is boxing (ex: * in front of both chars names in the /who list)
* No more than 2 chars online at once

Etc...some have flaws, but you get the idea.

Dolalin
11-27-2009, 01:38 PM
So instead of solutions that are a simple DB change, like XP or bind wound, you basically want to allow boxing and create a GM police force to enforce all these rules. Who has time to do that, heh?

Why not just enable boxing and be done with it in that case?

drplump
11-27-2009, 01:58 PM
Guys my GF finds me no longer hott can i still play her cleric i dont want that bitch to have it?

Bubbles
11-28-2009, 03:42 AM
Guys my GF finds me no longer hott can i still play her cleric i dont want that bitch to have it?

You are my new favorite poster. :)

Yoite
11-29-2009, 02:51 AM
wtf is this?

OP asks for advice

gets advice

bitches about advice

other random people bitch for random reasons

wtf is this?

oh wait, duh, its some forums on the internet. post count does not = exp.

Reiker
11-29-2009, 03:02 AM
My favorite of this btw was while Halladar (or whatever) was insta replying to everything a couple days ago he never moved out of efp.

yaaaflow
11-29-2009, 03:32 AM
My favorite part of this thread:


I rolled my character a month late... about November 3rd. Hit 50 around Nov. 18th. 90% grouping, usually with Karsten and others I've met in-game who knew how to play well. It can be done, mang.

Okay let's break it down. I averaged about 4 levels / day (/played). That's 16% an hour. Do you really think gaining 16% of a level for every hour is that crazy?


4 levels per day = 1 level per 6 hours played. 6 hours x 49 levels = 294 hours total from 1 to 50.

18 - 3 = 15, so you did 1-50 in 15 days. 15 x 24 = 360 hours total.

294/360 means that for your just over 2 week period levelling you spent just under 82% of your time, or 19.6 hours a day on EQ.

Is that about accurate? Do you like, not sleep?

The numbers behind that are just mind boggling and hilarious to me at the same time.

edit: For fun lets say it was 18 days not 15. Then you only spent a much more reasonable 16 hours 20minutes a day on eq. I suppose you could fit in some sleeping time in that case.

aresprophet
11-29-2009, 05:00 AM
Assuming for a second that we had a population of players anywhere near the 1999 mark (1500-2500) for as single server, could this server even support that many players at once?

drplump
11-29-2009, 05:07 AM
Rogean has said the server could easily support 1000 people. If we ever got there it would be trivial to add a 2nd server to host some of the busier zones.

Reiker
11-29-2009, 05:23 AM
Ask Karsten about my 40 hour leveling sprees. However you're totally not understanding that my point is about efficiency while logged in and not just playing for 40 hours straight.

Halladar
11-29-2009, 10:53 AM
My favorite of this btw was while Halladar (or whatever) was insta replying to everything a couple days ago he never moved out of efp.

Okay, I'm missing something. Explain why you find this noteworthy. I am very interested in your answer.

Dolalin
11-29-2009, 02:44 PM
You guys really shouldn't bother arguing about playtimes, that's a road to nowhere.

Torrinn
11-29-2009, 07:57 PM
Boxing would fix this easily. Classes that have a tough time soloing could box whatever class is most complimentary to the one they are having a hard time with and a better time will be had by all.

And before anyone gets all bent out of shape, I'm not suggesting allowing boxing while grouped or letting guys like Sam Deathwalker play on the server, just allowing it for those who can't find groups for whatever reason but still want to play the class of their choice.

someguy
11-29-2009, 09:01 PM
i main a pure melee, and i play at the most mysterious times of night. since lvl 3 i have NEVER had a problem finding a group. I am level 30. If I can grind from 2 am to 9 am CST in solid groups, from crushbone to oasis to unrest to mm to sola, so can you! in fact, i havn't grinded exp without a group since lvl 3. ONCE. when i don't have a group (usually only for 30 or so minutes because I am so leet) I run around and check my friends list.. because this is a social game, and that's how you find the exp! with the good players, the fun players!

boxing will NOT fix the problem. it will just create a scenario in which melees like me would be UNABLE to find clerics ect with half a brain! we'd jsut end up having to roll cleric or shaman boxes! and then i'd never have a awesome group of REAL PEOPLE again!

if you can't find a group because you can't stay on long enough ect, that's your problem. you can solo and do quests and shop for gear but NOT GROUP. oh well! WELCOME TO EVERQUEST.

Rallyd
11-29-2009, 09:47 PM
Rallyd - currently 39 warrior 1 yellow in, started Wednesday, November 18th

3 days it will be 2 weeks, had no problem finding or STARTING groups in the past near 2 weeks, no twink.

Changing the game in any way to "accomodate" new players would ruin the already easy leveling scheme and if you went the route of 2 boxing this server would become PEQ 2.0.

As Karsten said, proactive thinking is helpful, playing at the correct times the population your level is playing, and if you can't do either... Roll a goddamn pure caster solo your way to 50 and then twink your raid warrior.

Stop beating the dead horse.

Deanob
11-29-2009, 09:54 PM
I hate to agree with Karsten but its how it was in classic. Less QQ and more PEW PEW

Widan
11-29-2009, 11:08 PM
I hate to agree with Karsten but its how it was in classic. Less QQ and more PEW PEW

As was already pointed out numerous times, this server is not even close to what EQ classic was. The entire thing that made EQ into the game we all remember was the community. Without a larger player base you will never have that true EQ classic feel. Trivial changes to bind wound or whatnot don't detract from the classic experience at all, but a low population does.

Although 2 boxing would solve alot of issues, I did not bring it up in any of my posts because for whatever reason it was already decided that 2 boxing will not be allowed. Instead it is up to the players and developers to find ways to keep new players playing so that we can eventually reach the EQ classic game that everyone desires, because we certainly aren't anywhere close to that yet.

Somekid123
11-29-2009, 11:12 PM
Start that 2 boxing BS and half your community will be gone, including myself and 25 other's that ive brought over, say goodbye to those donations to keep it up and running if you do.

Deanob
11-29-2009, 11:14 PM
Two boxing will never happen. Stop the bickering Widan. If your too lazy to find a group I suggest re rolling. Otherwise...

Tovok
11-29-2009, 11:20 PM
IMHO, two boxing was very bad for Shards of Dalaya. I would not want to see it here.

Widan
11-29-2009, 11:32 PM
Two boxing will never happen. Stop the bickering Widan. If your too lazy to find a group I suggest re rolling. Otherwise...

Read thoroughly before you post!

Tristin
01-24-2010, 06:16 AM
less QQ dude, more PEW PEW

this

Goobles
01-24-2010, 06:30 AM
Way to resurrect a 2 month old topic, buddy.

Tristin
01-24-2010, 06:33 AM
Way to resurrect a 2 month old topic, buddy.

This sir is the essence of what it truly means to be a man about it!

Jete
01-24-2010, 06:54 AM
I think I know exactly how to fix this. Since some chars are made more for groups than solo I've devised a few spells to give to all classes mana free.

Spell #1- lvl 49 Mage Fire pet.
Not only will this help melee dps, but might help them off tank for them to use spell #2. ( See Spell#2 )

Spell#2- Cleric Complete Heal
Every melee needs to be able to self heal, and this is the only mana free efficient one.

Spell#3- Necro Lich
Just in case they want to look cool.

Spell#4 Shaman slow
Your fire pet ( see spell #1 ) might die without this.

Spell#5 Enchanter Charm
Just in case fire pet dies. (See spell #1)

Spell#6 Bard Selos
In case pet dies (see spell #1), Charm pet fails(see spell #5), complete heal fizzles (see spell #2).


Also, there are a few skills necessary for this build as well.

Skill#1 Warrior melee crit
An important clutch, in case you have to fight after fire pet dies(see spell #1),Charm pet fails(see spell #5), complete heal fizzles (see spell #2), and Bard selos does that weird not telling you the song failed thing(see spell #6).

Skill#2 Rogue Sneak / Hide
So you can get to EE and camp mana stone for 26 hours straight.

Skill#3 Ranger Track
There is NO WAY you will be able to see EE through that wall without this. A must have.

In conclusion every character should be given the above skills to make the game a little more balanced. I really find it silly that the Devs haven't already thought of this, But I digest...

karsten
01-24-2010, 06:56 AM
goobles you and tristin should probly just be men about it

Tristin
01-24-2010, 06:58 AM
im trying...Karsten if you cant be a man about it you just need to gtfo!

Goobles
01-24-2010, 07:04 AM
wtf is all this noise?

Tristin
01-24-2010, 07:08 AM
wtf is all this noise?

Big Karsten and Big Tristin have come to show Yall how to be men about it!

Step 1. Take a llama...

Goobles
01-24-2010, 07:12 AM
Make a dang Kay sa dilla.

karsten
01-24-2010, 07:12 AM
http://salamandercandy.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/llama-obey.jpg

Tristin
01-24-2010, 07:15 AM
http://salamandercandy.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/llama-obey.jpg

Just incase you missed it.



And I am going to find the one Nixus put up on the box forums long time ago.
Ill do it when I get home though. I am not going to Google "llama sex" while at work.

Tristin
01-24-2010, 07:40 AM
or just play better (tm-- knoxx)

and this

Hasbinbad
01-24-2010, 01:05 PM
https://www.llamaproducts.com/assets/product_pics/do_not_feed_llamas.jpg

Simon Belmont
01-28-2010, 03:15 PM
last 2 days my groups been without tanks. stop QQing and log in =p

guineapig
01-28-2010, 03:55 PM
last 2 days my groups been without tanks. stop QQing and log in =p

Yeah, what gives?


WTB tanks!!!

Kinamur1999
01-28-2010, 04:43 PM
Tanks on strike?

Throttle
01-29-2010, 04:21 AM
Start that 2 boxing BS and half your community will be gone, including myself and 25 other's that ive brought over, say goodbye to those donations to keep it up and running if you do.

That's such a hilarious trend in every single discussion where 2-boxing is brought up.

Pro-boxing arguments: Will help many players, will create environment closer to classic, provides more even playing field for certain classes, facilitates off-peak play.

Anti-boxing arguments: I don't like it, me and my friends will quit, you won't get donations, I'll take my ball and go home.

People just don't understand that a) boxing would be optional, and b) humanity progressed past the middle ages by becoming less selfish, intolerant and narrow-minded.

As long as this server caters primarily to the egocentric and uncompassionate players, they'll make up the majority and they will determine the atmosphere of the server.

Cheech
01-29-2010, 04:27 AM
I would like 2 boxing as well, but it is really unneeded as the population is higher then its ever been. Only thing it would really do is help melee do things on there own.

karsten
01-29-2010, 04:29 AM
i'm one of the hugest pro boxing supporters, but with 400 people and ONE (read: one) plane so far open, even i'm opposed to boxing at this point


p.s. people are dying for tanks, etc etc

Uaellaen
01-29-2010, 06:47 AM
b) humanity progressed past the middle ages by becoming less selfish, intolerant and narrow-minded.

i dont see those changes in current society tbh ... only thing that changed is that we dont run arround in full plate anymore ...

Ripcord
01-29-2010, 10:50 AM
higher and higher numbers everyday.. if you go to a popular group zone as any class and hang out there you will get a group ( usually right away or within a few min)

Tristin
01-30-2010, 01:39 AM
My ranger has a wts agro hotkey! Im a dps class! wtf gaiz roll them big bitches!