Resist Checks

[baramur]

Currently the resist check system is terrible. Mobs have way to high resist checks, while a level 10 mob can land nukes on level 60 characters. On live i could snare King in seb and nuke trak, on p99 even after malo and tash i cannot get druid snare to land at all on king, and nuking trak is almost pointless if you are anything other then a lure caster. In kc i get resists on mobs all the time, but any mob seems to be able to land spells on me. When doing druid epic in East Karana, the level 45 necro was able to snare me, str debuff me, and fully dot me, with minimal resist. Druid is geared pretty well, trak bp, hiero cloak, etc. No way a level 10 mob should EVER land a nuke on a 60 char, i do not think the game is factoring level difference when NPC nuke players. I also believe raid mobs/named are tuned a little to high on resists, as i do not remember a single mob in kunark i could not land spells on once malo/tash was in.

[Velerin]

I second this on greenies landing nukes on you. Very very green mobs still land nukes a lot, many times for full damage. Don't think that's right.

[bulbousaur]

Very annoying to have a mob 40+ levels below landing ANY spells, should not be possible.

[Nirgon]

The resist code for pve here is pretty passable right now... if a little off in some cases. Resists do matter in pve, so does npc level, its not quite perfect yet but resists in EQ are not a simple thing.

I would think revising it, if ever, would be a final pass after fixing remaining content / npc behavior.

Should not be able to go over 255 tho!

[Colgate]

i liked the part when you described how well-geared your character is in order to make a case for resisting spells cast on you, but you listed a bunch of items that he's wearing that do not give any resists at all

[baramur]

Colgate if all you want to do is stir shit, go smack yourself with a spoon, as you have nothing of value to add. Sick of you just chiming in with smart ass comments that have no place in the conversation. Was just using 2 high end pieces of armor to let people equate that to having good gear. The point is raid mobs and mobs in general are resisting spells they should not be, while players are taking hits when they shouldn't be. What does it matter if your cr goes to 400 if the resist check is not right, all your doing is nerfing the non raid gear players even more, and therefore spreading the gap between raid geared and group geared individuals. It is a simple statement of what is wrong, spells that should land on mobs are not, and spells that should not land on players are, i believe this is a very serious issue, more so then alot of issues they are addressing.

[khanable]

On live I solo'd my warrior from 44-48 in solb with ease.

These days, even at 58 and far better gear, the kobold shamans can do a number on me.

Anecdotal, but low level shit is definitely landing way more frequently than I ever remember.

[Nirgon]

Capping things at 255 brings them closer to being in line.

The amount of research per spell to make a revisit worthwhile is going to be enormous.

[cs616]

The resist code for pve here is pretty passable right now... if a little off in some cases. Resists do matter in pve, so does npc level, its not quite perfect yet but resists in EQ are not a simple thing.

I would think revising it, if ever, would be a final pass after fixing remaining content / npc behavior.

Should not be able to go over 255 tho!

If you think resist checks are correct here AND the cap should be 255, you're insane. Unless of course you were just talking about resist checks on mobs and not on players. With 255 cap most players on a raid would take full damage on every single AE. Even at 400 PR I can get hit with a Trak dot occasionally and he only casts like 2 or 3 a fight. If the cap is lowered to 255, resists checks definitely need to be reworked.

As it is though, resists aren't bad and feel pretty classic to me, even though as you noted the cap is higher. Our cap is higher, but mobs also hit much more often at high resists, so it all kind of evens out.

[Vandy]

As it is though, resists aren't bad and feel pretty classic to me, even though as you noted the cap is higher. Our cap is higher, but mobs also hit much more often at high resists, so it all kind of evens out.

I disagree with this evening out unless you are a bard or have a bard in your group 100% of the time.

[Velerin]

Being fairly new here and only midlevel, I can't say anything about the raid level stuff... but greenie mobs 15 or more levels lower than you shouldn't land any spells. I was being chain rooted by low green earth elementals in Najena the other day.

[cs616]

I disagree with this evening out unless you are a bard or have a bard in your group 100% of the time.

Fair point, my main raiding character is a bard so most of my observations are based on that.

[Visual]

this has been discussed ad nauseam. took them years to reduce npc mana pool so don't expect any resist fix soon :p

[Clark]

Currently the resist check system is terrible. Mobs have way to high resist checks, while a level 10 mob can land nukes on level 60 characters. On live i could snare King in seb and nuke trak, on p99 even after malo and tash i cannot get druid snare to land at all on king, and nuking trak is almost pointless if you are anything other then a lure caster. In kc i get resists on mobs all the time, but any mob seems to be able to land spells on me. When doing druid epic in East Karana, the level 45 necro was able to snare me, str debuff me, and fully dot me, with minimal resist. Druid is geared pretty well, trak bp, hiero cloak, etc. No way a level 10 mob should EVER land a nuke on a 60 char, i do not think the game is factoring level difference when NPC nuke players. I also believe raid mobs/named are tuned a little to high on resists, as i do not remember a single mob in kunark i could not land spells on once malo/tash was in.

[heals4reals]

The reason colgate commented in the fact you said "im well geared I have trak bp and heiro cloak" when talking about resists is because those items have absolutely nothing to do w resists.

Are you sitting at 20save all or 150 save all?

Yes level should play a roll but if your a troll with like -15 save fire and a mob fire nukes u, well gee

[gortimer]

Resists checks differ by zone it seems. Priest mobs in permafrost (mid 20s) land dispells 100% of the time but mobs in solb never land them.

[Arrisard]

Depends on the dispell the caster is using. Generally single slot dispells cannot be resisted while multislots are subject to normal checks iirc. Lower level mobs only have the single slot dispell, while higher level mobs have access to and attempt to use higher level, multislot, resistable dispells.

[cyryllis]

Resists checks differ by zone it seems. Priest mobs in permafrost (mid 20s) land dispells 100% of the time but mobs in solb never land them.

This is because the low level mobs are casting cancel magic (unresistable) vs mobs in sol b casting strip / pillage enchantment which can be resisted.

[dali_lb]

Do a Forum search on resist checks.

This is not a new problem. It's a known issue of EQEmulator because we use the Titanium client.
The resist checks is by default hardcoded into the client. Titanium client is based on a stat max of at least 520 if not more
(bet there is someone out there that has a bit more acurate description than me),
but this should explain why resist checks is off on Project1999 compared to original old school EQ.
That is also why the original rule that +mana items should be better than +int items when your int is over 200
( wich is the old school skill soft cap) doesn't fit on project1999. And it's propably also the reason for many other things like pet agro, defense and attack anomalies that is being discussed in various threads.

Put simply it works this way

old school: - Bob is hit by a npc Ice Comet, Bob has a cold resist of 150 (of 200)
after resist checks Bob gets a full resist roll and takes no dmg

P99: - Bob is hit by a npc Ice Comet, Bob has a cold resist of 150 (of 520)
after resist checks Bob gets a partly resist roll and only takes 400 dmg.

As the cap of (possible 520) is hardcoded in the client, only way to fix this,
is if they can somehow beef up all resist numbers that is sent to the client by a factor 2-3.
As noone has tried fixint it, i guess it isn't as easy as it sounds to do. :rolleyes:

[Alecta]

Dali_lb, most of what you wrote is incorrect.

The resist calculations are 100% server side, and the server could easily do something like return min(cr, 255) when calculating a person's cold resist. The only issue is that the client would still display 300 CR, lending the impression that adding more CR is actually doing something when it isnt.

[dali_lb]

I suggest you search both here on P99 and other eqemu server boards.
It's stated many places that the resist calculations is off because some of it is hardcoded into the client

[Alecta]

Rather than going off forum hearsay, I'd rather refer to Mob::ResistSpell in https://github.com/EQEmu/Server/blob/master/zone/spells.cpp

The server stores all the data about the spell casting interaction (the caster, the target, resist values, level differences, etc.).

Cutting out the irrelevant stuff and partials, spell resists basically works like this:

Get target resists (stored server side)
Map those resists into range of 0-100 using a function (*)
Generate a random number 1-100
if random_value < resist chance, resist
otherwise loop over the spell effects, applying them.


Even if people say "the resist calculations is off because some of it is hard-coded into the client", the client doesn't actually factor into the process above.

Not saying the process is perfect. The main problems are that

the function(*) listed above is an approximation, since we don't have the original one from classic EQ and
the resists that DISPLAYS client side are simply a sum of all the stats sent to it by the server. So if you for example impose a resist cap-server side of 255, the client will still display higher resists if the character has 300 mr in gear and spells.


Hope that is reasonably clear.

[Ciroco]

Sorry for the ancient thread bump, but have we given up on this just because we don't know the original resist check code? I'm sick of dying to green casters.

[Daldaen]

Sorry for the ancient thread bump, but have we given up on this just because we don't know the original resist check code? I'm sick of dying to green casters.

Yea our resist code doesn't scale well by level. Mobs that are green should almost NEVER land a spell. Especially root/mez/charm/snare.

I got charmed by some level 35 mob the other day at level 60. Even without resist gear on that should never happen.

[Daldaen]

Here is an example of what I am talking about:

[Sat Apr 12 13:53:44 2014] a deepwater goblin scowls at you, ready to attack -- You could probably win this fight.
[Sat Apr 12 13:54:05 2014] a deepwater goblin begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Apr 12 13:54:05 2014] You have been struck down by wrath. You have taken 53 points of damage.
[Sat Apr 12 13:54:14 2014] a deepwater goblin begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Apr 12 13:54:18 2014] You have been struck down by wrath. You have taken 5 points of damage.
[Sat Apr 12 13:54:20 2014] a deepwater goblin begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Apr 12 13:54:23 2014] You have been smitten. You have taken 49 points of damage.
[Sat Apr 12 13:54:25 2014] a deepwater goblin begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Apr 12 13:54:29 2014] You have been struck down by wrath. You have taken 34 points of damage.
[Sat Apr 12 13:54:31 2014] a deepwater goblin begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Apr 12 13:54:34 2014] You have been smitten. You have taken 3 points of damage.

Level 60 vs. Level 30-35~ NPC

This is with 52 Magic Resist, nothing fantastic... but the level spread should supersede the lowerish Magic Resist. No way is a mob 25-30 levels lower than you supposed to be able to stick 5 nukes, even if they are all partials. The vast majority of these should be full resists, and maybe one partial at that sort of level difference.

Yes - I accept this is a small sample etc. But this is a decent illustration of the bigger issue.

[Ciroco]

Did some messing around in Oasis.

Me: level 57, 100 MR, 79 FR, 62 CR

an orc priest: level 15

[Sun Apr 27 20:18:34 2014] an orc priest begins to cast a spell.
[Sun Apr 27 20:18:35 2014] You are struck by a sudden burst of force. You have taken 1 point of damage.

a desert madman: level 10ish

[Sun Apr 27 20:21:10 2014] a desert madman is straight ahead.
[Sun Apr 27 20:21:11 2014] You feel your skin ignite. You have taken 1 point of damage.

2x a Dervish Cutthroat: level 12

[Sun Apr 27 20:24:55 2014] You pierce a Dervish Cutthroat for 41 points of damage.
[Sun Apr 27 20:24:55 2014] YOU are burned!
[Sun Apr 27 20:24:55 2014] You try to pierce a Dervish Cutthroat, but miss!
[Sun Apr 27 20:24:55 2014] You try to slash a Dervish Cutthroat, but miss!
[Sun Apr 27 20:24:55 2014] You slash a Dervish Cutthroat for 17 points of damage.
[Sun Apr 27 20:24:55 2014] YOU are burned!
[Sun Apr 27 20:24:55 2014] A Dervish Cutthroat tries to punch YOU, but misses!
[Sun Apr 27 20:24:55 2014] Auto attack is off.
[Sun Apr 27 20:24:58 2014] a Dervish Cutthroat begins to cast a spell.
[Sun Apr 27 20:25:01 2014] You resist the Shock of Lightning spell!
[Sun Apr 27 20:25:02 2014] Auto attack is on.
[Sun Apr 27 20:25:02 2014] You pierce a Dervish Cutthroat for 32 points of damage.
[Sun Apr 27 20:25:02 2014] YOU are burned!
[Sun Apr 27 20:25:02 2014] You try to slash a Dervish Cutthroat, but miss!
[Sun Apr 27 20:25:02 2014] You slash a Dervish Cutthroat for 20 points of damage.
[Sun Apr 27 20:25:02 2014] YOU are burned!
[Sun Apr 27 20:25:02 2014] A Dervish Cutthroat tries to punch YOU, but misses!
[Sun Apr 27 20:25:03 2014] Auto attack is off.
[Sun Apr 27 20:25:05 2014] a Dervish Cutthroat begins to cast a spell.
[Sun Apr 27 20:25:05 2014] a Dervish Cutthroat begins to cast a spell.
[Sun Apr 27 20:25:06 2014] Your skin freezes over. You have taken 7 points of damage.
[Sun Apr 27 20:25:08 2014] The spirit of wolf leaves you.
[Sun Apr 27 20:25:08 2014] You feel a bit dispelled.
[Sun Apr 27 20:25:09 2014] a Dervish Cutthroat begins to cast a spell.
[Sun Apr 27 20:25:11 2014] A Dervish Cutthroat tries to punch YOU, but YOU dodge!
[Sun Apr 27 20:25:12 2014] You resist the Column of Frost spell!
[Sun Apr 27 20:25:13 2014] A Dervish Cutthroat tries to punch YOU, but misses!
[Sun Apr 27 20:25:13 2014] a Dervish Cutthroat begins to cast a spell.
[Sun Apr 27 20:25:16 2014] A Dervish Cutthroat tries to punch YOU, but misses!
[Sun Apr 27 20:25:16 2014] a Dervish Cutthroat begins to cast a spell.
[Sun Apr 27 20:25:16 2014] You are encased in frost. You have taken 7 points of damage.
[Sun Apr 27 20:25:17 2014] A Dervish Cutthroat tries to punch YOU, but misses!
[Sun Apr 27 20:25:18 2014] Your skin freezes over. You have taken 1 point of damage.

These aren't exactly typical results as I fully resisted ~90% of the time (depending on the spell type), but I'm pretty sure these mobs shouldn't have a chance in hell to land anything on me.