WoW so followed EQ

[fuji]

Is it just me, or does the WoW releases remind you of EQ? I mean, look at the expansions, Burning Crusade had that desert look like Kunark. Frozen throne is like well, frozen Velious and now the latest expansion gives the whole world a new make over, new beast race the Worgen and I bet you some how they end up going to the moon. They even have a new city called "Vashj'ir", wtf?

[Rimson]

EQ inspired all MMO's after. I dunno why you think its such a big deal.

[Phallax]

Is it just me, or does the WoW releases remind you of EQ? I mean, look at the expansions, Burning Crusade had that desert look like Kunark. Frozen throne is like well, frozen Velious and now the latest expansion gives the whole world a new make over, new beast race the Worgen and I bet you some how they end up going to the moon. They even have a new city called "Vashj'ir", wtf?

Lol never really looked at it this way, kinda funny.


EQ inspired all MMO's after. I dunno why you think its such a big deal.

Thats the obvious, hes not stating that, hes saying how identical WoWs path is with EQs path. Not just "inspiring".

[rioisk]

EQ inspired all MMO's after. I dunno why you think its such a big deal.

every modern mmorpg is basically EQ with social tools + maps + easy mode

[Zartacx]

EQ inspired all MMO's after. I dunno why you think its such a big deal.

I agree 50%, UO gets the other 50%

[frefaln]

Hmm, I really hadn't noticed the pattern but their next expansion is "Shadows of Moo Kin" so it can't just be a coincidence.

[Lowlife]

old school UO dunks all over every MMORPG, backboard glass all over the place

[Volga]

Isn't EverQuest kind of based on Meridian59 in terms of game play style?

[Tronjer]

No, it's kind of D&D, regarding the classes.

[Polyphemous]

Some of the people that created WoW were in a top EQ raid guild, so it is not that surprising.

I never really thought of Kunark as a desert expansion though, seemed like more jungles/ forests than anything.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Everything worth saying has already been said by someone else before. Everything worth doing has already been done by somebody else before.

[Polyphemous]

So say those who like to think that all wisdom is their's. Yet if there can be a new kind of porn that has never been seen on the internet, can there not be many things worth doing and saying in RL that have not yet been done or said?

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1901172

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

.... no. It may not be recorded... but somewhere, it has been said, or done before. Perhaps not verbatim, but...name the great thinkers/philosophers.

Now name the current ones...every speech I hear has quotes from someone else... all the politicians do it.

[Kraftwerk]

Kunark was a jungle continent, it had ~2-3 desert-ish zones. TBC was a charred wasteland, not so much desert so don't really see any comparison there. You could make a comparison between Velious and WotLK, but then again WotLK was just mining into a pivotal lore that was already years old by then and entrenched into the franchise (Arthas/Northrend) not really an "EQ did snow 2nd xpac so let's get to it" situation. Third xpac is a return to basic continents with no new continent or world so I would say it is decidedly differing from EQ's #3 being a new planet and slight genre change into a bit of sci-fi. You say to-may-to, I say to-mah-to.

[Polyphemous]

I don't remember any of Plato's works being entitled "dick in the dick dialogues."

Of course politicians echo what has been said before, it is not a sign of anything other than their speech writers having researched the subject of persuasion. Use what is familiar to sell what is new. Lincoln's Gettysburg address parallels Pericles' Funeral Oration, not because Lincoln couldn't think of anything new to say, but because his readers would be familiar with the style and would better understand what he is trying to say than if he just got up and started doing a beatbox freestyle rap about homiez dyin' in da field fo freedom yo.

Your only proof for your assertion is that it could not be otherwise, yet my example shows how it could indeed be otherwise. Billions of people over about 20 years have been uploading and downloading porn every day (youporn on a different tab atm), gazillions of dollars are made by internet porn each year, massive companies like google are devoted to archiving and making all this porn (and the few other things on the internet) easily searched... and yet with all that not a single instance of dick in the dick porn.

Perhaps you think that 20 years is not significant considering the 10,000's of years of human existence? (or 6,000 years if that guy in EC is to be believed) But the massive increase in the holding capacity of the earth brought about by modern science, and the attendant population increase means that more people were alive in the 1990's than in all of human history combined. So even though much of what was written in the past has been lost, that which is lost is but a very small fragment of the totality of information within the internet. An internet with no examples of DitD porn.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

It was a puzzling thing. The truth knocks on your door, and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth." And so it goes away. Puzzling.

[fastboy21]

i never thought of kunark as a desert. for the most part, it was dense jungle areas iirc.

[Rael]

WotLK is a direct nod to Velious. Furor even admitted Velious was his favourite expansion. I'm guessing a future WoW expansion will be called "Emerald Dream" or "Maelstrom" or something which will be its equivalent of PoP.

[Humerox]

Isn't EverQuest kind of based on Meridian59 in terms of game play style?

Meh...actually EQ was a graphical Diku Mud. Wasn't based on the code but it had that Diku Mud feeling.

Meridian 59 was great...too bad Near death Studios kicked the bucket for good early this year. I also loved UO...them was the days, lol

[guineapig]

Yeah, I agree with many of the above. Very little of Kunark was desert-like. That continent had a wide range of climates, not unlike Antonica. That alone kind of ruins the comparison.

[fuji]

Yeah, I agree with many of the above. Very little of Kunark was desert-like. That continent had a wide range of climates, not unlike Antonica. That alone kind of ruins the comparison.

Burning crusade also had a bunch on jungle zones. So i would say it is a bit of a mix. Also i should add that the box color was the same. Kunark/Crusade was green and velious/frozen was blue.

They arnt suppose to be 100% exactly the same, but the main idea is there. You could also say they never used a hot blonde with big jugs on their box art as well, but I wont nit pick.

[jyaku]

players from UO made EQ and players from EQ made WoW. and now all three games have free servers run by players. i actually just stopped playing UO to play EQ and i play WoW when EQ starts to piss me off

[rioisk]

So say those who like to think that all wisdom is their's. Yet if there can be a new kind of porn that has never been seen on the internet, can there not be many things worth doing and saying in RL that have not yet been done or said?

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1901172

I've yet to see porn with 3 girls and 1 guy, 1 black girl 1 white girl 1 asian girl........or 1 black dude with 3 girls 1 blond 1 brunette and 1 red head. Would be like 3 flavor in one ice cream with chocolate syrup.

Have yet to find it.

[fuji]

I've yet to see porn with 3 girls and 1 guy, 1 black girl 1 white girl 1 asian girl........or 1 black dude with 3 girls 1 blond 1 brunette and 1 red head. Would be like 3 flavor in one ice cream with chocolate syrup.

Have yet to find it.

I have yet to see an asian dude with a big hammer.

[girth]

So say those who like to think that all wisdom is their's. Yet if there can be a new kind of porn that has never been seen on the internet, can there not be many things worth doing and saying in RL that have not yet been done or said?

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1901172

Not to hate on your video, but I have come across a DITD video... Its out there. Its also disgusting.

And one of those chicks in that video is pretty damn hot, even with shit all over her face.

[Quitis]

You know, all I have to say is. I never really understood Snakes on a Plane, so what makes anyone think I'll understand Snakes on a Moon.

[Serith]

No shit.

[stormlord]

Everything gets old. Wow is just like the young guy. Old age is the last thing on his mind. He doesn't think he'll live forever, but he thinks he has a small chance. Hey, you never know, right?

When it's obvious that WoW is getting old, don't cry. It's normal.

Besides, there'll be a new mmorpg that comes out for you relive the whole experience again.

Of course, everyone in that new mmorpg will say WoW is old school.

My take on all this is that mmorpgs are like books, excluding the technical limitations (graphics, ai, interfaces, etc). They're all good, no matter how old they're. Some of the older ones have better systems than newer ones, just like some songs can seem better to you than new ones. They all have value.

It doesn't require a genius to see the technical differences. Computers are faster and more capable. MMORPG code is more developed than it was 10 or 20 years ago. Graphics are much better. AI has the potential to be much better. Worlds are bigger. Some things haven't got better though. NPCs, for example, in MUDs from the early to late 90's, were often more advanced than NPCs you find in modern MMORPGs. NPCs have trended to be like vending machines in the mainstream market. There're other things that haven't advanced all that much too. UO, for example, had boats and houses that you could build in a seamless world. You could treasure hunt with your boat, for christs sake. You could employ hirelings. You can't even find that in a lot of modern MMORPGs.

The technical advances are not always linear because of changing trends, but, generally, they're.

One of the trends in the mainstream market is easily accessible systems. This is generally the result of opening up to a larger market and grabbing people who're not accustomed or friendly towards the detailed and comprehensive (and time consuming) systems of old. However, people in the hardcore market tend to be irritated by these features exactly because they don't want it to be easily accessible. They don't want maps, easy travel, easy low level game, expansive trade-skill and quest windows that keep track of everything. Highlight keywords and interface driven communication with non-players. They want to communicate with the non-players manually. They want to keep track of some of the quest information manually. And they want everyone to do it that way so that the best of the players excel. Otherwise, you can't judge your performance in relationship to other people. It's not about holding other players back, it's about a fair trial where everyone is given the same cards and those who use them the best get credited for it. Not everyone will win.

Well, at least, that's the hardcore crowd I am a member of. I like to do most things manually. I draw the line with some things, but, on average, I hate automatic systems that don't involve me in the process. I actually like to have my fingers in it. I hate keywords in conversations with non-players. I like playing on MUDs where I can explore many different keywords without a brain dead template like "Do you want a [quest]?" No, a hardcore version would be, "Hello, Jausic. I sell general wares, could I interest you in anything?" It doesn't show you explicitly that the non-player has a quest for you, you instead have to earn it by learning things in the envrionment and experimenting. I don't consider going on allah to explore quest drops an example of that.

This does sometimes happen in EQ. I was in abysmal sea on another server and it showed a non-player and mentioned a key hanging on his neck. I typed "A key on your necklace?" and the non-player responded. The emote only mentioned that there was a key on his necklace, it didn't actually say "He has a necklace with a [key] on it." It was refreshing to find that. It's rare for me to find something like that in EQ. For example, if I walk up to a non-player in qeynos and type "What is Qeynos to you?", I should always get a response for every single non-player in and around Qeynos. Instead, I get a blank stare like the non-player is perplexed.

Does everything important have to have a keyword around it? I was working on an open source thing and I remember a large crowd of people desiring keywords. They're so lame to me and completely remove the adventure and fun out of it. I don't know how people can enjoy it. It's the same for maps and radars. They remove the fun out of it. It makes it feel cheap. Cheesy.

I'm not against instant travel, btw. I just want a travle system that involves me. Kind of like the one in UO. I liked that one. It engaged you. You had to build it. You could determine how you traveled and where. I hate, HATE permanent/fixed travel systems like portals and waygates and rifts and etc. They don't change. They don't give any power to the player. The player is left out.

Bottom line, I want everything to be detailed. I want to be rewarded for learning new knowledge. That could mean faster travel teams, it could mean more money or a better item, it could just mean saved time. I like it to be expansive. I love to bury myself in the intricacies and nuances of a system. My absolute nightmare when I play an mmorpg is when a detailed system is completely removed from the entire game and replaced by something much simpler. The argument is that the new system is more accessible and less "irritating", but it's just the opposite for me. I don't understand how people can like it, all I know is this is what happens.

I also don't like to mix fantasy themes haphazardly (sloppily). Like in EQ. During holiday they mix crap up and confuse me. Why the hell is Santa Claus in POK? Santa has nothing to do with Norrath and doesn't belong there. It ****** me off to no end. People who're so casual that they don't take things seriously, have no respect for the world or the roleplaying envionrment. They're like a snotty nose brat that comes into the church and pulls down his pants and pees on the pastor while stroking it. It's adolescent bullsh**. It's prenatal indulgence.

Sorry that I feel this way. I can't change what or who I am. Maybe i'm cursed to be a minority.

To give example, one look at SWG makes me wish I could play it pre-NGE. Everything SOE gets their greasy hands on turns to a joke and is made into a themepark. I wish they supplied a puke bag.

[Reiker]

If anything, WoW stole a lot from DAOC. Some of this stuff may have been in previous MMOs, but I saw it all first in DAOC.

Faction vs. Faction PVP
Combat system based on styles
Specializing influencing a class's main role (ie compare Priest with Cleric, who could spec Heals, Buffs, or Smite (nukes))
Death resulting in item wear that you would need to repair
Seamless world - no zoning besides dungeons and major cities
Battleground-based PVP (except DAOC had no instancing at first)
Weapons displaying DPS/SPD
Quest journal
Mount-based travel between towns that you paid a fee to use

[Daywolf]

Like EQ? More like EQ2 me thinks. Both of them are crap anyway. Well EQ too, but not until later expansions. *shrugs* when I tortured myself with WoW, couldn't get Diablo out of my head; but being a really bad incarnation of it in some ways. Didn't play vanilla though, or maybe should say didn't get played by vanilla which unveiled the crap-fest WoW became when I got around to a sub. *lights a febreze candle*

[stormlord]

If anything, WoW stole a lot from DAOC. Some of this stuff may have been in previous MMOs, but I saw it all first in DAOC.

Faction vs. Faction PVP
Combat system based on styles
Specializing influencing a class's main role (ie compare Priest with Cleric, who could spec Heals, Buffs, or Smite (nukes))
Death resulting in item wear that you would need to repair
Seamless world - no zoning besides dungeons and major cities
Battleground-based PVP (except DAOC had no instancing at first)
Weapons displaying DPS/SPD
Quest journal
Mount-based travel between towns that you paid a fee to use

MUDs had this long before that. Yes, some had quest journals too. And houses... And...

[stormlord]

Like EQ? More like EQ2 me thinks. Both of them are crap anyway. Well EQ too, but not until later expansions. *shrugs* when I tortured myself with WoW, couldn't get Diablo out of my head; but being a really bad incarnation of it in some ways. Didn't play vanilla though, or maybe should say didn't get played by vanilla which unveiled the crap-fest WoW became when I got around to a sub. *lights a febreze candle*

Ironically, I consider myself hardcore in my preferances, but I had a good bit of fun with Diablo. I actually kind of like action rpgs for a vacation away from more slow rpgs. Kind of like the difference between Icewind Dale and Baldurs Gate or Planescape Torment. It's always refreshing to bash some skulls and bulk up.

I wonder when they're releasing Diablo III.

[Daywolf]

Ironically, I consider myself hardcore in my preferances, but I had a good bit of fun with Diablo.I played it early on, but then UO came out, so that was pretty much it. If there were expansions, never saw them :)
<-- just not a Blizzard fan.

[UrsusMajor]

every modern mmorpg is basically EQ with social tools + maps + easy mode

Sadly I really wish they would have based more MMORPG's on UO and AC.

[Beau]

Of course WoW modeled a large portion of their content after EQ. Blizzard even had a few well known end game EQ players come over to help develop content.
Why wouldn't they? EQ Was hugely successful and their only real competition at release.

[Tork]

I'd mostly agree - except to say anything after PoP should be written out of EQ.

I don't want to kill space aliens, I want to kill dragons and demons and Gods. I want simple story arcs with loads of lore and special events, places and people.

And EQ mostly delivered on that up to PoP, even including SoL, which was horrible and ruined the sense of community with Nexus/Bazaar and don't get me started on those horrific new models, but EXCLUDING LDON - instancing destroys what is central to EQ (or at least to EQ's playerbase), which is contested content and the shared experience. More to the point, you cannot have a hero without a villain, and all those contested points of contact provided just the right stage and just the right amount of friction to make it all work.

Why are lguk and os so much fun? The frogs? Well, yes in part - but the lore is only part of it - think of all the ways shit went bad in those zones, and how much a part of your player experience was built on those memories - the good ones.

The subculture which formed in that communal experience was amazing - grinding out hell levels, camping rare spawns, ninja/ks'ing named, and all the /ooc magic in groups filled with a rotating cast of characters are what made it fun - not getting yet another disposable piece of loot.

Anyhow, I'm not sure how VI/Sony lost their way afterward, however - or why they cannot seem to get the train back on the tracks. I understand GoD and OOW were linked in development, but they'd have been so much better off to have taken a mea culpa, halted development and turned out something the players liked and enjoyed - because given them what they thought they wanted (yet another piece of disposable loot) was completely unsatisfying in the long run.

Speaking of long run, I might as well throw it out there Nexus and PoK helped ruin the world by making the world too small - part of EQ was being swallowed up in it. The run to NTOV is epic - doing CR there is painful, but rewarding... how utterly forgettable is it so click on a book?

I'd rant more, but I'm sleepy exhausted - suffice it to say EQ, even with its warts, had the right formula - if people see analogues in WoW, good.

[Sparkin]

I'd say great, can't wait til WoW releases its GoD expansion so that people stop playing that boring pile of shit and every game company making an MMO stops trying to emulate it.. except that'd mean GoD is still 1..2..3..4..5 expansions away. So at Blizzard's glacial development pace the players won't start leaving in droves for another 10 years at the least. How sad.

[Nedala]

Many members of the WoW staff played eq once.

[Daywolf]

Many members of the WoW staff played eq once.They are prolly all hooked on farmville. Games like WoW get built from marketing research.

[Reiker]

MUDs had this long before that. Yes, some had quest journals too. And houses... And...

No shit. We can do that forever, moron. MMORPGs ripped off MUDs. MUDs ripped off D&D. D&D ripped off Tolkein, and on and on.

Bringing up completely different gaming platforms/genres is completely pointless. The point still remains, in the realm of MMORPGs, WoW copied over half of DAoC.

[President]

No shit. We can do that forever, moron. MMORPGs ripped off MUDs. MUDs ripped off D&D. D&D ripped off Tolkein, and on and on.

Bringing up completely different gaming platforms/genres is completely pointless. The point still remains, in the realm of MMORPGs, WoW copied over half of DAoC.

I think that list has a few things that are from AC, and EQ before DAoC.. Pretty sure there was a PVP server that had faction based PVP in EQ.. Almost the whole rest of the that list was in AC as well..

[Reiker]

I think that list has a few things that are from AC, and EQ before DAoC.. Pretty sure there was a PVP server that had faction based PVP in EQ.. Almost the whole rest of the that list was in AC as well..

I never played AC, so possibly. But DAoC was way more popular than AC, so I'd still argue that WoW took ideas that were popularized by DAoC.

I don't consider the EQ team PvP servers "faction vs. faction" pvp. They weren't really factions like DAoC and WoW were. Members of teams started all over the world. You didn't have your own consolidated alliance/kingdom like in DAoC/WoW. The entire game wasn't based around competing factions.

[President]

I never played AC, so possibly. But DAoC was way more popular than AC, so I'd still argue that WoW took ideas that were popularized by DAoC.

I don't consider the EQ team PvP servers "faction vs. faction" pvp. They weren't really factions like DAoC and WoW were. Members of teams started all over the world. You didn't have your own consolidated alliance/kingdom like in DAoC/WoW. The entire game wasn't based around competing factions.

That's a bit of stating the obvious there Reiker ;) Though they didn't have their own starting/safe area, I believe it was still very territorial. I never played it myself, but I feel like I remember people discussing it and certain factions "controlled" certain areas. As in - The darkies raided solb and took that over for xp/gear that day/week/month.. same with seb/com etc. Not quite the same, but actually sounds pretty freaking fun to me.

[Yrahcaz]

I'd mostly agree - except to say anything after PoP should be written out of EQ.

I don't want to kill space aliens, I want to kill dragons and demons and Gods. I want simple story arcs with loads of lore and special events, places and people.

And EQ mostly delivered on that up to PoP, even including SoL, which was horrible and ruined the sense of community with Nexus/Bazaar and don't get me started on those horrific new models, but EXCLUDING LDON - instancing destroys what is central to EQ (or at least to EQ's playerbase), which is contested content and the shared experience. More to the point, you cannot have a hero without a villain, and all those contested points of contact provided just the right stage and just the right amount of friction to make it all work.

Why are lguk and os so much fun? The frogs? Well, yes in part - but the lore is only part of it - think of all the ways shit went bad in those zones, and how much a part of your player experience was built on those memories - the good ones.

The subculture which formed in that communal experience was amazing - grinding out hell levels, camping rare spawns, ninja/ks'ing named, and all the /ooc magic in groups filled with a rotating cast of characters are what made it fun - not getting yet another disposable piece of loot.

<snip>

Speaking of long run, I might as well throw it out there Nexus and PoK helped ruin the world by making the world too small - part of EQ was being swallowed up in it. The run to NTOV is epic - doing CR there is painful, but rewarding... how utterly forgettable is it so click on a book?

I'd rant more, but I'm sleepy exhausted - suffice it to say EQ, even with its warts, had the right formula - if people see analogues in WoW, good.

YES!

The open world. The contested content. The griefers. The trains. The Ninjas and KS'ers. The hero 'ubers' that would stand at zone lines slaughtering trains in newbie zones, tossing buffs at random.

Coming home from whatever, sitting down and chatting with people that you've gotten to know over the course of days/months/years. Getting all prepared, starting to buff up, and having *that other guild* come in and start doing the same... AND THE RACE IS ON!

/waving at the guy that you've seen fishing at the same spot for a week trying to get enough to grind through another few tradeskill levels... as you're on your way to whatever spot to try and grind through some more XP.

The beauty of the non-instanced, huge world that we were all emersed in was the unexpected.

I remember finally getting the people together for those raids into Sky, Fear, and Hate for my duckstick. Having the entire group come with me, collecting people as we went, a rolling party the whole way back to Kazen for my final turn in.

I miss those days. I miss that experience. Unless there comes a time where a real, open world game with the community like EQ is released, I doubt that anything will even come close.

Given how real life has changed since 1999, I don't think I'd even have the time to play it.

/mourn Hell, I'm almost as bummed typing this as I was the day I called farewell to Steamfont, sat at the feet of my original Gnecro guildmaster, and /quit for the last time.

[quellren]

No matter how hard one tries, you just cannot capture the sense of enormity, grandeur and peril of EQ. That's not to say there aren't some things that WoW does right, but EQ did so much more right. The kids that started with WoW and DAoC just won't ever understand the need for community, teamwork and, for lack of better term: Not pooping in your own backyard.

I could expound on this for pages, all the things that I love and hate about EQ, but if you're reading this, I'm preaching to the choir.

One thing I will say, I'm thrilled to see the old EQ community is still there, mostly just like I remember it. Seems like the 'WoW mentality' hasn't really infected here.

[Reiker]

The kids that started with WoW and DAoC just won't ever understand the need for community, teamwork and, for lack of better term: Not pooping in your own backyard.

Man, I have friends that love EQ but won't even touch the DAoC emu server because that game is so hardcore. Strange to lump it with WoW.

Same guy who had more than 1 50 on P99 gave up the DAoC grind.

[EvilMallet]

WoW is all of the good parts (in the dev's opinions) of all successful mmos before it.

[EvilMallet]

Man, I have friends that love EQ but won't even touch the DAoC emu server because that game is so hardcore. Strange to lump it with WoW.

Same guy who had more than 1 50 on P99 gave up the DAoC grind.
I remember the only raid our realm could get on my server was the dragon in the far south corner of Hibernia :(

[quellren]

Man, I have friends that love EQ but won't even touch the DAoC emu server because that game is so hardcore. Strange to lump it with WoW.

Same guy who had more than 1 50 on P99 gave up the DAoC grind.

I lumped them together because I remember feeling the same way in DAoC as I did in WoW. The majority of the player base would just as soon laugh and tea-bag your corpse as rez you. Or at least want a bunch of money for a 5 second cast and a few ticks of mana that regens in 15 seconds.
They wouldn't run to help you even a whit. A 'Your death is not my problem' mentality.
I don't feel that way in EQ nearly as much.

I have no idea what you're referring to in regards to the DAoC grind, but then I did play a BoneDancer. :D Did it change drastically? Either way, I'd never consider the lvl grind hardcore, especially PvE up through ToA. I didn't plat beyond that. How hard can it be? once you have one lvl 50, you got to start every new alt at 20.

WoW is all of the good parts (in the dev's opinions) of all successful mmos before it.
WoW could have stood on the shoulders of giants and been just that, all the best parts of those that paved the way. Then the 12 year olds without social etiquette and the e-peen contests ruined it.

[Reiker]

I lumped them together because I remember feeling the same way in DAoC as I did in WoW. The majority of the player base would just as soon laugh and tea-bag your corpse as rez you. Or at least want a bunch of money for a 5 second cast and a few ticks of mana that regens in 15 seconds.
They wouldn't run to help you even a whit. A 'Your death is not my problem' mentality.
I don't feel that way in EQ nearly as much.

I have no idea what you're referring to in regards to the DAoC grind, but then I did play a BoneDancer. :D Did it change drastically? Either way, I'd never consider the lvl grind hardcore, especially PvE up through ToA. I didn't plat beyond that. How hard can it be? once you have one lvl 50, you got to start every new alt at 20.

Yeah dude, I quit before Bone Dancers were even part of the game. Pre-ToA grind was fucking hellish, and the community was the best of any MMO I've ever played. There was a lot of "us vs. them" realm camaraderie. You actually felt like part of a team, and many had a "helping a stranger is helping the realm" mentality. I'm not sure how the game changed post-ToA as I quit during SI.

DAOC leveling is like EQ with no hell levels, until 40. 40-50 is one giant fucking hell level.

[EvilMallet]

once they added 1-5 player instances in DAoC leveling was extremely easy.

[quellren]

Man you missed out on the BoneDancer. Think EQ necro, with no lifetaps or funny utility spells, just Nukes and dots. *BUT*with MULTIPLE pets. after lvl 25-ish they have a skeleton Tank pet thats roughly the durability of a chain wearer PLUS up to 2 archers or mages that are about 5-8 lvls lower AND a healer pet that's 8-10 lvls behind the caster.... it's almost like a Diablo 2 necromancer in an MMO. I'd literally find a dungeon with mobs 5 levels below me and go AFK while my army camped the room. They needed a PvE nerf-bat in the worst way. In PvP they were kinda harmless, but super-freaking annoying to casters and squishy DPS.

[Reiker]

Yeah I'm familiar with the concept of all the new classes now through Uthgard. I heard about kill tasks and instances making leveling easy, but back in the day 40-50 took me at least a month of hardcore LFG grindan'. I heard Hibernia and especially Albion had it easier than Midgard though as far as 40+ leveling spots, but not sure. I remember being jealous of watching my friend group at pygmy goblins (albion) cause it looked like a way more fun / interesting way to level compared to Midgard (killing fucking bears and shit in Raumarik all day every day for shit exp).

[EvilMallet]

also the DAoC necromancer kicked so much ass

loliminvunerable kill my pet

[stormlord]

I'd mostly agree - except to say anything after PoP should be written out of EQ.

I don't want to kill space aliens, I want to kill dragons and demons and Gods. I want simple story arcs with loads of lore and special events, places and people.

And EQ mostly delivered on that up to PoP, even including SoL, which was horrible and ruined the sense of community with Nexus/Bazaar and don't get me started on those horrific new models, but EXCLUDING LDON - instancing destroys what is central to EQ (or at least to EQ's playerbase), which is contested content and the shared experience. More to the point, you cannot have a hero without a villain, and all those contested points of contact provided just the right stage and just the right amount of friction to make it all work.

Why are lguk and os so much fun? The frogs? Well, yes in part - but the lore is only part of it - think of all the ways shit went bad in those zones, and how much a part of your player experience was built on those memories - the good ones.

The subculture which formed in that communal experience was amazing - grinding out hell levels, camping rare spawns, ninja/ks'ing named, and all the /ooc magic in groups filled with a rotating cast of characters are what made it fun - not getting yet another disposable piece of loot.

Anyhow, I'm not sure how VI/Sony lost their way afterward, however - or why they cannot seem to get the train back on the tracks. I understand GoD and OOW were linked in development, but they'd have been so much better off to have taken a mea culpa, halted development and turned out something the players liked and enjoyed - because given them what they thought they wanted (yet another piece of disposable loot) was completely unsatisfying in the long run.

Speaking of long run, I might as well throw it out there Nexus and PoK helped ruin the world by making the world too small - part of EQ was being swallowed up in it. The run to NTOV is epic - doing CR there is painful, but rewarding... how utterly forgettable is it so click on a book?

I'd rant more, but I'm sleepy exhausted - suffice it to say EQ, even with its warts, had the right formula - if people see analogues in WoW, good.
I mostly agree that pok and the nexus unified everyone and destroyed pocket communities. It also removed the idea of zones that are like outposts. One of my favorite zones in all of EQ is Crystal Caverns in Velious. This is an outpost zone. The reason I like it is because it has all the bells and whistles. Twisting tunnels, lots of things to kill, a bank, merchants, shortcuts, and you have to invis or fight to get to it or out of it. It's kind of out of the way. I love those qualities, but it isn't perfect (yet). It needs a few more quests (are there any?) attached to the ice dwarf coldains that live there. And they don't talk much - that's disturbing. Where is the bar and banter and sorrowful sorries about the little boy that got taken by the rygorr clan? Just because it's an outpost, doesn't mean you can ignore all of the things that make a place a community. Other than that, I love this zone.

I wish EQ would have added a couple more binds and more bind locations. This would have allowed players to have a greater impact on how they travel. For example, you could have a bind in qeynos and in frostone (crystal caverns). A gate potion or death would bring up a couple options for where you can be summoned to (including all your binds). Plus, just learning where you can bind can be a rewarding thing. Ideally, we could bind anywhere, but if they have to limit it, I think it adds to the game (although maybe not as much as no limit). AFter doing that, they should add more outpost zones. This would have kept the flavor of old eq alive by making individual communities more distinctive (not unifying them).

One area in EQ that I disagree wiht is the notion that players have to run several zones after death to get back to their corpse. I think there should be more shortcuts that players can learn to speed up their travels. Clever zone design and bind features could have allowed for this. I think that an expansive array of options could have both made travel feel challenging and at the same time it would have kept travel minimal when you master it. This is another way of saying that travel should not be slow and tedious once you've learned everything. Slow and tedious travel should only happen when you're new and don't know about the shortcuts and/or consistently make bad choices due to crappy attention span. I really do not feel any remorse or sympathy for people who play bad or want to be rewarded for doing nothing.

I really don't care for people who don't have a good attention span and can't cope with having to learn something and want everyone else to hold their hand so they won't fall. I really do feel that the bigger the mmo, the worse it's for someone like me. Why? Because the average person doesn't want to sit around learning the game. They want things to be more casual. They're against the game crushing them when they don't know about the particulars. They want to be able to ignore little things or technical things or anything that really challenges you to focus. This reminds me of a video of SWG just before NGE. They had this empty eyes lady talking about how complicated such and such systme was and that she couldn't make heads or tails of it. She sounded to me like a noob or a math dropout or somebody who can't focus on little things. Then she talked about how wonderful things would be post-NGE and how things would be easier to understand. I remember her saying "Players shouldn't have to have a phd to play this game." That, my friends, describes the kind of person I do not want to play with. I don't think players need a phd, but I want to play with high calibre people who can handle a combat system and not cry like a little baby. If you can't handle some stats then play something else.

What I'm against is FORCED tedium. I'm not against tedium, by itself. Tedium could just mean you're new and don't know anything. Or you're a dupe. I'm not against bad things happening when people make bad choices. That's good. What I'm against is not giving people options and forcing them to run a treadmill without any alternative. That's not progression. Progression means you get better as you learn and develop. Progression doesn't give you things unless you earn them. Nor does it take take take and make your life miserable.

[stormlord]

Also, I'll tell you why SOE ruins every game they touch. It's because they shuld be working at Disneyland. They'd probably get rich overnght. Lotsof mickey mouse. Thats' where they belong.

[Daywolf]

Also, I'll tell you why SOE ruins every game they touch. It's because they shuld be working at Disneyland. They'd probably get rich overnght. Lotsof mickey mouse. Thats' where they belong.
Agreed. They ruined EQ, SWG, PlanetSide and killed off MxO. To mention Vanguard and PotBS... hasn't done anything good for Vanguard and then PotBS slipping from historical to fantasy which the devs said they would never-ever do.

[eqdruid76]

Some of the people that created WoW were in a top EQ raid guild, so it is not that surprising.

I never really thought of Kunark as a desert expansion though, seemed like more jungles/ forests than anything.

You referring to Furor and Fires of Heaven? Because they had nothing to do with creating WoW, other than playtesting and feedback. If you're referring to others of whom I'm unaware, apologies.

[Reiker]

A lot of well and lesser known ex-EQ players were cherry picked for WoW, not just Furor.

[Kraftwerk]

I believe Tigole was(is?) part of development team in some aspect for WoW.

[radiobyebye]

Is it just me, or does the WoW releases remind you of EQ? I mean, look at the expansions, Burning Crusade had that desert look like Kunark. Frozen throne is like well, frozen Velious and now the latest expansion gives the whole world a new make over, new beast race the Worgen and I bet you some how they end up going to the moon. They even have a new city called "Vashj'ir", wtf?

If you didn't get the new collector's edition of the new Everquest II expansion. You probably didn't see the documentary called "Evercracked!" They interviewed some of the lead designers of WoW from Blizzard and they said themselves they played Everquest and if it wasn't for the game, WoW wouldn't be around or like it is today.

Check out the documentary it's pretty sweet and nostalgic.

[Toony]

i never thought of kunark as a desert. for the most part, it was dense jungle areas iirc.

Zangermarsh

[UrsusMajor]

No matter how hard one tries, you just cannot capture the sense of enormity, grandeur and peril of EQ. That's not to say there aren't some things that WoW does right, but EQ did so much more right. The kids that started with WoW and DAoC just won't ever understand the need for community, teamwork and, for lack of better term: Not pooping in your own backyard.

I take it you never played DAoC because DAoC very much understood the need for community. How many times in EQ did you have Guild Alliances get together to work to protect your frontier. I played on DAoC Bors and our community was and still is very strong.

Hell we still have the private server board we all used instead of VN's board up and running with probably 200+ people posting on it to this day. 200+ people posting on a board for a game that's almost 10yrs old. And it's not 1-2 posts a day, I would say the number of posts there is about 5x more than on this forum daily.

Do not lump DAoC in with WoW. The DAoC community is/was right up there with UO, EQ and AC's community.

[UrsusMajor]

Yeah dude, I quit before Bone Dancers were even part of the game. Pre-ToA grind was fucking hellish, and the community was the best of any MMO I've ever played. There was a lot of "us vs. them" realm camaraderie. You actually felt like part of a team, and many had a "helping a stranger is helping the realm" mentality. I'm not sure how the game changed post-ToA as I quit during SI.

DAOC leveling is like EQ with no hell levels, until 40. 40-50 is one giant fucking hell level.

I think this generally happened when they introduced RA's and 8-mans were born. People were no longer concerned with protecting the realm, they were concerned with how many RA's they could get and fielding only the perfect 8-man.

[UrsusMajor]

Man you missed out on the BoneDancer. Think EQ necro, with no lifetaps or funny utility spells, just Nukes and dots. *BUT*with MULTIPLE pets. after lvl 25-ish they have a skeleton Tank pet thats roughly the durability of a chain wearer PLUS up to 2 archers or mages that are about 5-8 lvls lower AND a healer pet that's 8-10 lvls behind the caster.... it's almost like a Diablo 2 necromancer in an MMO. I'd literally find a dungeon with mobs 5 levels below me and go AFK while my army camped the room. They needed a PvE nerf-bat in the worst way. In PvP they were kinda harmless, but super-freaking annoying to casters and squishy DPS.

Hahaha, man did you play the wrong spec. BD with no lifetaps? Are you serious? You're only talking about either Darkess (mage pets) or Bone Army (melee/archer pets). Until they nerfed the Suppression spec, it was the ONLY way to go for a BD. You had a an Instant life tap DD with no cooldown, your main pet that melee'd and 3 healer pets. Sup BD's would just sit there and tank multiple mobs/players while they life tapped them. their main pet melee'd they opponent and three other pets healed the BD.

[azeth]

Hahaha, man did you play the wrong spec. BD with no lifetaps? Are you serious? You're only talking about either Darkess (mage pets) or Bone Army (melee/archer pets). Until they nerfed the Suppression spec, it was the ONLY way to go for a BD. You had a an Instant life tap DD with no cooldown, your main pet that melee'd and 3 healer pets. Sup BD's would just sit there and tank multiple mobs/players while they life tapped them. their main pet melee'd they opponent and three other pets healed the BD.


^ #1 reason why EQ is >

Specs? Really? "There's X amount of ways you can play your character, but dont you dare Spec any differently than me!" This is why I stopped playing Allods Online actually. I played a Scout (2nd beta -> live), had my own completely made up way to play it. Unfortunately I decided to post my thoughts on the forum under a thread from some noob looking for some tips and you really wouldn't believe the flaming that went on.

"lol wtf you do XYZ??? nub that sux! spec ABC"

"really? because turns out i kill efficiently and can't remember the last time I died... but i guess if you're gaining .01xp/per minute more than me then yea I'm so sorry I went this route"

edit: absolutely no offense to the person I've quoted

[Overcast]

^ #1 reason why EQ is >

Specs? Really? There's X amount of ways you can play your character, but dont you dare Spec any differently than me!

I was just thinking that too :)

One of the things I hated about other MMO's - all the specs and such should be 'viable'.

When it gets to the point where you must be 'such and such' spec to raid, group, or PvP - then, meh.

[azeth]

I was just thinking that too :)

One of the things I hated about other MMO's - all the specs and such should be 'viable'.

When it gets to the point where you must be 'such and such' spec to raid, group, or PvP - then, meh.


I just think MMOs that focus on allowing players to "spec" their class to go different routes are really taking on more than they can chew (yes even Blizzard with their $$). IMO to allow players to spec you must be able to honestly claim "every spec is as useful as every other spec". (impossible)If 1 of 10 Warrior Specs is better than the other 9... why the hell would anyone spec any differently than the 1 proven to be greater? More to the point, why the hell would a group prefer you (not talking personality/friends here) over the "better specd" person? The inherent flaw in the spec system is.... the spec system.

It's pretty similar to the gear you choose to wear in regard to equipping what best fits your type, and switching/swapping gear when necessary (resists for raids). Just because I want to play as an all Red Plate Ogre (Rubicite), that isn't really fair/feasible when I'm main tanking for a 50's group/raid. Herego, why high end players are all shooting for the exact same gearset. Whats best is.. well best, you can't argue it.

http://uploadpic.org/thumb-80847.jpg

[UrsusMajor]

^ #1 reason why EQ is >

In your opinion, in mine AC > EQ but there are no AC EMU servers so I'm playing here.

Specs? Really? "There's X amount of ways you can play your character, but dont you dare Spec any differently than me!" This is why I stopped playing Allods Online actually. I played a Scout (2nd beta -> live), had my own completely made up way to play it. Unfortunately I decided to post my thoughts on the forum under a thread from some noob looking for some tips and you really wouldn't believe the flaming that went on.

"lol wtf you do XYZ??? nub that sux! spec ABC"

"really? because turns out i kill efficiently and can't remember the last time I died... but i guess if you're gaining .01xp/per minute more than me then yea I'm so sorry I went this route"

edit: absolutely no offense to the person I've quoted

Sorry but I forgot to mention that one of the main reasons why Suppression was the only way to go was because Bone Army was gimped and Suppression provided much more defensive ability and the ability to stay alive than Darkness. The ability to stay alive and self heal in PvP is a huge advantage to a class.

I also stated that the poster was ignorant about his class. He said BD’s were like Necro’s but with no life tap. Which is incorrect. The most powerful spec when BD’s were introduced was the Suppression spec, because of it’s instant lifetap and healing pets.

Personally I don’t care whatever game you want to play but I happen to prefer games like UO, AC and to a certain extent DAoC where you allocate your skill points over games like EQ where each class gets the same basic abilities. Allocating your skills and developing your character makes you care more for that actual character than in say games like WoW.

[azeth]

Personally I don’t care whatever game you want to play but I personally prefer games like UO, AC and to a certain extent DAoC where you allocate your skill points over games like EQ where each class gets the same basic abilities.

Yet, you care so much about how someone else played their character. Why? Who cares if it was better? Sounds like he raped with his spec. Regardless, I did not post to argue/flame whatsoever, I really just wanted to illustrate how rediculous spec systems are currently.

[Overcast]

When everyone uses the same spec - is there a point of 'specs' existing?

[UrsusMajor]

Yet, you care so much about how someone else played their character. Why? Who cares if it was better? Sounds like he raped with his spec.

No I cared about the fact he was ignorant about how to play his class. It's like rolling an Enchanter in EQ and never using it to CC anything because he didn't know Enchanters could CC.

[azeth]

The inherent flaw in the spec system is.... the spec system.

When everyone uses the same spec - is there a point of 'specs' existing?

************************************************** **********

No I cared about the fact he was ignorant about how to play his class. It's like rolling an Enchanter in EQ and never using it to CC anything because he didn't know Enchanters could CC.

^ This is exactly why i tried to identify I was not flaming. I know nothing of this game, I really, again, was commenting on the spec system.

[UrsusMajor]

When everyone uses the same spec - is there a point of 'specs' existing?

I think one of the things I really liked about AC was not that everyone used the same spec but that because you were able to choose your spec you could create much different characters by combining spec's in different ways.

Like in AC, there were four schools of magic, War, Item, Creature and Life and every mage used all four and pretty much every melee used three. The question was, how do you spec them and what other skills do you take?

Some Mages, specialized in War and Life and only trained Creature and Item. These were basically the DPS mages. Then there were others who would specialize in Creature and Magic Resist, so they could resist other mages and debuff their opponents into oblivion.

[FatMagic]

old school UO dunks all over every MMORPG, backboard glass all over the place

This made me LOL! Hahaha! Epic post :)

BTW you can play pretty close to Classic T2A UO... www.uosecondage.com

[Barthorn]

Proof that even WoW devs admit that WoW would have never come to be if it wasn't for Everquest.

http://video.ign.com/dor/articles/1044480/evercracked-the-phenomenon-of-everquest/videos/evercracked_prt_ep5_121009.html?show=hi

watch Evercracked 1-5 pretty entertaining. :)

[Tomato King6]

Reiker Reiker is offline
Banned


Down and coined

[Swish]

Is necroing threads bannable? Please say yes... :D

[t0lkien]

I agree 50%, UO gets the other 50%

A friend who played UO for years once told me everything EQ did, and everything every other MMO did afterwards and advertised as "novel", UO had done in some form - and often better. "Lord British" may have been eccentric, but he was also a brilliant designer in his time.

Not taking anything away from EQ. It built upon what went before though.

[TarukShmaruk]

Is it just me, or does the WoW releases remind you of EQ? I mean, look at the expansions, Burning Crusade had that desert look like Kunark. Frozen throne is like well, frozen Velious and now the latest expansion gives the whole world a new make over, new beast race the Worgen and I bet you some how they end up going to the moon. They even have a new city called "Vashj'ir", wtf?

Lots of WoW devs were avid EQ players (and many of them were in Legacy of Steel)

[wolffien]

Poly thats not right, little history for you all.

EQ started out on its own. and sony bought it from the Developers, they kept those same guys building EQ and its updates and new releases. then at one Point Sony did not think they needed them anymore and basicly screwed those guys out of the deal Sony had cut with them. and in turn firing them. that same team went to Blizzard after that in no time we had WoW online. alot of old school EQ guys know this as we watched it happen. and fast sony went to work ruining one of the greatest games ever put online.

[Kagatob]

I wonder when they're releasing Diablo III.

I lol'd at this.

How long did the masses wait for that garbage?

[Korisek]

I lol'd at this.

How long did the masses wait for that garbage?


So glad I went with Torchlight 2 instead.

[Clark]

Is it just me, or does the WoW releases remind you of EQ? I mean, look at the expansions, Burning Crusade had that desert look like Kunark. Frozen throne is like well, frozen Velious and now the latest expansion gives the whole world a new make over, new beast race the Worgen and I bet you some how they end up going to the moon. They even have a new city called "Vashj'ir", wtf?

damn those thieves!

[Kieu]

Some of the people that created WoW were in a top EQ raid guild, so it is not that surprising.

I never really thought of Kunark as a desert expansion though, seemed like more jungles/ forests than anything.

This isn't true at all. Furor from FoH is the only one that is a dev there, and he mainly did raid development.

[Rhambuk]

How long did the masses wait for that garbage?

Years and so disappointed.

Also kag, I MIGHT have to put you on ignore because of your new avatar. I can handle the anime stuff but the constant shaking is going to give me a seizure

[susvain0362]

The goblin Bilge in Dagnors....and the WoW Goblin race faction is "Bilgewater Cartel"

[susvain0362]

This isn't true at all. Furor from FoH is the only one that is a dev there, and he mainly did raid development.

Ariel - guild leader of legacy of steel was something important above Tigole

Tigole - the next guild leader of legacy of steel was lead quest designer and eventual lead game designer

ariel brought tigole/furor into blizzard, theres like 40 references to Furor/Alex Afrasiabi in WoW

atleast one or two more LoS was involved with WoW. Half of Westfall NPC'd are refernces to LoS. legend of captian graayson...guard galiaan etc etc

[t0lkien]

Ariel - guild leader of legacy of steel was something important above Tigole

Tigole - the next guild leader of legacy of steel was lead quest designer and eventual lead game designer

ariel brought tigole/furor into blizzard, theres like 40 references to Furor/Alex Afrasiabi in WoW

atleast one or two more LoS was involved with WoW. Half of Westfall NPC'd are refernces to LoS. legend of captian graayson...guard galiaan etc etc

...and let me say that anyone who was an asshat in a game and then references that asshattery in the game they then designed as if it were something to be proud of ... has baked their asshat status into bedrock. Creating an ability in WoW and calling it Furor may just be the biggest act of geek wankery ever.

[Kagatob]

Years and so disappointed.

Also kag, I MIGHT have to put you on ignore because of your new avatar. I can handle the anime stuff but the constant shaking is going to give me a seizure

I liked the #YOLO I couldn't stop laughing when I saw it while sleep deprived as all hell this morning.

[Myth]

One area in EQ that I disagree wiht is the notion that players have to run several zones after death to get back to their corpse. I think there should be more shortcuts that players can learn to speed up their travels. Clever zone design and bind features could have allowed for this. I think that an expansive array of options could have both made travel feel challenging and at the same time it would have kept travel minimal when you master it. This is another way of saying that travel should not be slow and tedious once you've learned everything. Slow and tedious travel should only happen when you're new and don't know about the shortcuts and/or consistently make bad choices due to crappy attention span. I really do not feel any remorse or sympathy for people who play bad or want to be rewarded for doing nothing.

I like the idea of clever zone design. Take it a step further and place a locked door and an NPC that sells a 1 time use no drop key to open said door (plat sink). Upon opening the door it would lead to a passage that would safely take you to the other side of the zone. Toss some lore in there like its a dwarven tunnel or some shit (yay lore), and you're golden. The catch? Make the NPC a 20+ minute spawn and put a decent rare in its loot table (pixels). Put the NPC on a faction that was shared with other "tunnel wardens" so if you did decide to kill them you forfeit your privlege of using the tunnel (risk vs reward). If someone was camping the spawn you would have to wait for it to respawn. Meanwhile you sit there, much like waiting for the boat, chatting with like minded players (+community). If you wanted to save time you could traverse the zone. Lastly, make rogues happy and make the door pickable. Win across the board!

[susvain0362]

I liked the #YOLO I couldn't stop laughing when I saw it while sleep deprived as all hell this morning.

The Grand Marshal in Alterac Valley is named like....GRand Marshal Afrasiabi. the dude the horde has to kill to win. It's either this guy or the guy in Ironforge/Stormwind you talk to for que'ing battlegrounds. My memorys off...but in classic a very important/badass NPC for Alliance is GM Afrasiabi. Also in WPL/EPL the quest " The Great Fras Siabi". and in Stratholme there is a sign for a blacksmith shop called something like "Tugole and Forors Smithing Shop". theres a handful of Furor references and a couple tigole.

[t0lkien]

I like the idea of clever zone design. Take it a step further and place a locked door and an NPC that sells a 1 time use no drop key to open said door (plat sink). Upon opening the door it would lead to a passage that would safely take you to the other side of the zone. Toss some lore in there like its a dwarven tunnel or some shit (yay lore), and you're golden. The catch? Make the NPC a 20+ minute spawn and put a decent rare in its loot table (pixels). Put the NPC on a faction that was shared with other "tunnel wardens" so if you did decide to kill them you forfeit your privlege of using the tunnel (risk vs reward). If someone was camping the spawn you would have to wait for it to respawn. Meanwhile you sit there, much like waiting for the boat, chatting with like minded players (+community). If you wanted to save time you could traverse the zone. Lastly, make rogues happy and make the door pickable. Win across the board!

Thankfully none of these horrid world-reducing ideas will make it anywhere near p99. There are just so many games to play if you want insta-porting and click travel. And they are so much less epic for it.

I'd go on about how reducing the pain of travel undermines class defining abilities, and inevitably makes the world smaller and poorer, but others have done it in posts before this.

P.S. It's ironic, you know, that the same people who want fast travel features are the first to complain that the game has "lost something" once they get them. The two things are intimately connected. I could never understand why so many people didn't understand that (and still don't) - not just players, but devs.

[Kagatob]

The Grand Marshal in Alterac Valley is named like....GRand Marshal Afrasiabi. the dude the horde has to kill to win. It's either this guy or the guy in Ironforge/Stormwind you talk to for que'ing battlegrounds. My memorys off...but in classic a very important/badass NPC for Alliance is GM Afrasiabi. Also in WPL/EPL the quest " The Great Fras Siabi". and in Stratholme there is a sign for a blacksmith shop called something like "Tugole and Forors Smithing Shop". theres a handful of Furor references and a couple tigole.

Why did you quote me?

[Ganjar]

Lol kunark ain't desert it's jungle. Trololo

[AdamM01]

Hmm, I really hadn't noticed the pattern but their next expansion is "Shadows of Moo Kin" so it can't just be a coincidence.

Lol, this just made me laugh so I had to quote.

Thankfully none of these horrid world-reducing ideas will make it anywhere near p99. There are just so many games to play if you want insta-porting and click travel. And they are so much less epic for it.

I'd go on about how reducing the pain of travel undermines class defining abilities, and inevitably makes the world smaller and poorer, but others have done it in posts before this.

P.S. It's ironic, you know, that the same people who want fast travel features are the first to complain that the game has "lost something" once they get them. The two things are intimately connected. I could never understand why so many people didn't understand that (and still don't) - not just players, but devs.

I couldn't agree more. I started to dislike EQ once PoK came into play. Porting to every zone you needed was crap, completely destroyed the usefulness of a wizard/druid port to a zone you wanted to get to. The traveling part, although shitty, was one of the great parts of the game. It allowed you to explore zones that you would otherwise not have probably seen, and really get a feel of the world you are playing in. Plus who didn't like searching for a wizard/druid to port them somewhere and donate 20+pp :p