DoTs on r99 and team99

[HippoNipple]

On red99 people always say DoTs are nerfed. From what I have seen they are due to the following, can someone confirm if I'm missing something?

1) poor resists allow DDs from other classes to land full damage so DoT's low resist are less of a factor

2) DoT's damage in PvP is nerfed more than DD damage. Either DoT damage is nerfed more than it should, or DD damage isn't nerfed as much as it should be in PvP.

3) A larger % of the population is knowledgeable about the game and are better at dispelling/curing DoTs. Although, with the change on red99 not allowing shamans to create the cure pots I'm guessing this is no longer a real disadvantage for necro/shaman anymore.


Can someone help me out and confirm if I'm right/wrong on number 2? I don't see 1 being much of a factor pre Kunark since resist gear is limited then. It will be tough enough getting magic resist to where people want before worrying about fire/cold.

[Nirgon]

Never saw anyone outside of original Holo dispel dots.

ANYONE.

[HippoNipple]

Never saw anyone outside of original Holo dispel dots.

ANYONE.

I did until they stopped allowing shamans to make the cure pots, but I'm not that active.

[HippoNipple]

Nirgon you know everything about everquest, answer my questions.

[Alecta]

2) DoT's damage in PvP is nerfed more than DD damage. Either DoT damage is nerfed more than it should, or DD damage isn't nerfed as much as it should be in PvP.

They both get a 33% reduction against players.

From what I can tell, the DoT damage reduction that applies against NPCs while they are moving doesn't apply against PCs.

Eg.
Pyrocruor vs Player = 77 damage stationary, 77 damage chasing
Pyrocruor vs NPC = 111 damage stationary, 77 damage chasing

NB: This is my understanding of how things /are/ today on R99.

[big league chew]

Never saw anyone outside of original Holo dispel dots.

ANYONE.

i pell em all except those damn icon-less lifetap dots
and those ones i try to zone and pell (only thing that works)
WHERES THE FIX??? broken forever & very OP

[Nirgon]

I think dots here are taking the damage reduction rule for direct damage.

Kringe insists that dots were not subject to this.

I do remember splurt, in particular, absolutely tearing the fuck out of anyone who didn't dispel it.

If it isn't one shotting a lvl 51 caster here who doesn't dispel, then its wrong.

[Nirgon]

The iconless issue Lethdar reported does need to get fixed at some point.

Known spells to me:
Vexing Mordinia
Bond of Death

Moving should affect NPCs and not PCs

[Alecta]

Perhaps that icon issue will go away with the next patch.

We can always be hopeful.

Can someone do some research on if the % damage reduction should take place on DoTs? Or perhaps bump that thread?

[HippoNipple]

I think dots here are taking the damage reduction rule for direct damage.

Kringe insists that dots were not subject to this.

I do remember splurt, in particular, absolutely tearing the fuck out of anyone who didn't dispel it.

If it isn't one shotting a lvl 51 caster here who doesn't dispel, then its wrong.

It would make sense, I mean envenomed bolt and ice comet are about the same casting time and damage. Having to wait a 45 seconds and hoping there is no cure poison to equal the same damage as a DD blows.

Hidden Bond of Death is a huge plus. It's sad that things are evened out through bugs and bad coding versus just having the correct system but as long as it works out I guess it will work.

[Nirgon]

The evidence for me is dropping a splurt on another 51 caster with shielding :)

Patch notes I think suggest only direct damage and pets.

Nothing is evened out through some of these bugs. It just distorts the great classic game play. All mechanical bugs must die.

[Giovanni]

One of the other reasons necro's are so much weaker on here is lifetaps. I do not believe the heal component of lifetaps over time/dd lifetaps was pvp nerfed on live.

Only the damage component was pvp nerfed on live.

[Nirgon]

Neh I think you got hp back based on damage dealt.

AKA 0 damage dealt to a rune = 0 healed.

Spells being too hard to resist hurts necro the most.

Probably the spell damage to dots thing too! Need to test that splurt bruh.

[Potus]

Lifetap healed the damage you dealt, so in pvp it was 2/3, which yes makes it very, very inefficient and in later levels you will lifetap for less damage than a melee will hit in one round.

There are a lot of reasons Necromancers are bad but it's mostly after level 52. DoT casting times take forever and are almost immediately dispelled. Pets do very pathetic damage. Your lifetap doesn't heal for very much. It's a combination of being gimpy due to pvp server rulesets and Verant making terrible spells for necromancers post 50 due to class balance complaints. The only nuke Necromancers had was the Ignite Bones line, which resisted often in pvp due to the Skeleton illusion.

I'm pretty sure dots were nerfed 2/3 on live, and after a month of Splurt being around people stopped complaining and realized they had a good 20-30 seconds to dispel it before it started to really hurt them. The only time Splurt was great was in group pvp when optimally you could land it behind someone's buffs or count on another person to distract your target.

[AffEcT]

I am unsure how low it was but the PvP spell damage reduction was only about 15% in classic?
I dont know how much it was but it was very low.
They boosted it later on during or after velious i think. You can check screenshots from classic/kunark and see spelldmg not matching 33% reduction.

[Alecta]

Only the damage component was pvp nerfed on live.

That's my recollection as well.

Dread of Night should be doing 482 damage, but healing for 720 in PvP

Neh I think you got hp back based on damage dealt. AKA 0 damage dealt to a rune = 0 healed.

Well, yes, runes are factored in before the healing.

So currently on R99:
Lifetap for 720 on a person with 394 hps rune.
Lifetap does 2/3 damage in PVP so 480 damage applied against 394 hps rune.
Life tap does 86 damage, heals for 86.

I think it should be:
Lifetap for 720 on a person with 394 hps rune.
Lifetap does 2/3 damage in PVP so 480 damage applied against 394 hps rune.
Life tap does 86 damage, heals for 130.

[Vexenu]

Necros are pretty nasty in group fights. Dropping Splurts on melees really hurts if they are fighting your own melees and thus can't channel a Pumice dispell. Also Necros can be really hard to keep track of in a big fight between DMF, shadow step and skeleton illusion.

[NotKringe]

That's my recollection as well.

Dread of Night should be doing 482 damage, but healing for 720 in PvP



Well, yes, runes are factored in before the healing.

So currently on R99:
Lifetap for 720 on a person with 394 hps rune.
Lifetap does 2/3 damage in PVP so 480 damage applied against 394 hps rune.
Life tap does 86 damage, heals for 86.

I think it should be:
Lifetap for 720 on a person with 394 hps rune.
Lifetap does 2/3 damage in PVP so 480 damage applied against 394 hps rune.
Life tap does 86 damage, heals for 130.
That is similar to live like..
On Live Necros used to be able to Deflux a warrior toe to toe both at 100% health and a Necro would kill a Warrior straight up using nothing but deflux.. I made a necro in hopes they would be "Live Like here" originally, (Also the dot dmg is receiving the 66% dmg nerf ) where on live dots did full dmg on players... One ignite blood would kill a caster in classic if he didn't pell it off.

[filthyphil]

ignite bones landed very well for me in PvP on r99, & I do not think the illusion was applied when it landed either. This was against players lower level than me.

[Potus]

That is similar to live like..
On Live Necros used to be able to Deflux a warrior toe to toe both at 100% health and a Necro would kill a Warrior straight up using nothing but deflux.. I made a necro in hopes they would be "Live Like here" originally, (Also the dot dmg is receiving the 66% dmg nerf ) where on live dots did full dmg on players... One ignite blood would kill a caster in classic if he didn't pell it off.

This is completely wrong. I played on Vallon from day one and Necro lifetaps always did a 2/3 damage both in the damage on your target and the heal for yourself. The same mechanism works for when you try to tap someone who is Runed. If you don't damage them, you don't get any hitpoints. Deflux did not kill a warrior toe-to-toe. It only healed 220, in which any warrior with decent weapons will outdamage and kill you.

And DoTs ALWAYS were 2/3 damage as well in PvP. Here's a 2001 article by a druid talking about the PvP damage reduction on druid spells: http://www.thedruidsgrove.org/archive/eq/t-3883.html