THE THREAD TO END ALL THREADS- LET'S STOP POSTING

[Darksinga]

I've been a forum warrior the past few weeks and have read almost every thread on suggestions and have realized there are so many suggestions going on that we need a unified voice for GMs to listen to. Here is a list I compiled of some general agreements. (Made a few edits due to some valid points. Once again, this is a community thread NOT just my opinion.)

Ruleset:
3 Teams (Doesn't necessarily have to be Sullon Zek Style but the general agreement is Good, Neutral, and Evil/Discord.)
-Good being able to attack neutrals/discords
-Neutral being able to attack good/discords
-Discords being able to attack good/neutrals.

Level Range
-8 lvls, Vallon Zek style. Or how the level range currently is on R99 and scales. Though several people have favored a FFA level range this encourages too much griefing for the many blues that will attempt this server.

PvP Flags
-Healing oor flags you for pvp, eliminating the concept of immortal healers.

XP Rate
-Keep the current xp rate of Red99 as it's currently fast enough. We do not want a VZTZ server xp rate in which you could get max in a 2 day grind.

Timeline
-Week 1-5: Classic
-Week 6-8: Kunark release (if server is ready/upon agreement.)
-Week 20(ish): Serve merge.

The Naughty No-No List
-Despite several "suggestions" of custom factors I strongly believe to make this server survive we need things to be as classic as possible. Though in the past I was in favor for things like a murderer flag etc, it's simply not classic and can discourage the simplicity and great joys that EQ PvP brings.
NO:
-Custom items (FV Hammer-- Though a great idea, does not exist in the world of Norrath. :( )
-Custom start zones
-Shadowrest
-Item Drops (with the exception of cash and consumables/spells etc.)
-Leaderboard

Faction
-PvP kills result in faction loss.

Next topic is an undecided point, however, I believe to make this server user friendly to newbies, casuals, and blues, we need a:
Play-nice policy-- sorry you hardcore-ers
-No trains
-No CC (exception is if the person does not want to give up zone control and choses not to call LnS. Or are just to prideful.)
-No Bind Camping (No exceptions.)
-LnS enabled. MUST leave zone for one hour (can tweak time amount--but LnS is simply a must. Others have also suggested guild leader LnS agreements. If a guild loses in PvP the guild leader must forfeit zone control and call LnS to claim bodies safely.)

Name Coloring--The idea is we need something to differentiate teams, the actual colors don't matter.
-Goodies = Blue
-Neuts = Green (Sorry GM's you gotta change colors?)
-Discords = Red (obviously.)

OOC/Chat
-An undecided area, however, if OOC is not permitted, please enable team chat.*A good chat, neut chat, and evil chat please.

Clickies
-Despite several complaints about clickies, clickies were classic guys. We need to leave these in. The only possible exception to this would be trakanon's tooth. I wouldn't complain if trak's tooth were limited to NPC targets only.

Encourage Good Behavior/Team Behavior
-Weekly xp bonuses provided to teams who have not violated the play-nice rules. Encourages good behavior and makes you think twice about which team you want to join. If you join discord well you may never receive xp bonuses.

Open A Beta Server A.S.A.P!
-So we can:
-Test 3 Team PvP
-Have players focus on resist fixes instead of farming Red 99. We all have to admit more work on resists, by players, was done before Red 99's release then after. The forums were filled with players constantly posting logs and trials of how spells landed.
-Begin advertisement of a new server.
(Also for the beta server, allow players to #level themselves to not waste time grinding on a beta.)

Summary:
-SZ hardcoded teams
-VZ and TZ PvP range
-VZ and TZ Play Nice Policy
-Unique Name/Team Colors
-Behavior Rewarded XP Bonuses
-No immortal healers

Mahalo for reading. Post any suggestions. And if we could please try to use this thread as a central guide for GMs to view the majority's opinion rather than a hundred threads that get derailed every day or two.

[RoguePhantom]

Some good ideas, some bad.

Limiting levels... Has never worked in any game. Arbitrary caps never work. This leads to people grinding to max, and starting a new class. And thus never sticking with one, and you will have every class to 'max' level. Since getting to those level caps is insanely easy. Additionally, stuff would need to be 'balanced' at every interval. Adds too much confusion to an already confused staff when it comes to resists/bugs.

No Holds Barred PvP. Specific to PvP. You can train, you can Corpse Camp, you can do whatever dumbassery you want. The fact that we would have leaderboards (Ran by the GMs not a guild), and people would know who/what/when stuff goes down... Leads to great stories and fun. It also takes decision making out of the GMs hands when they werent there to witness it and only have logs and 'he said she said' arguments to try to decipher. Besides, Play Nice Policies never work and always lead to people whining and crying about losing.

Think Fansy would have been able to become a 'legend' on VZ or RZ? Or Marathe?

I also think there needs to be a reward for PvP though. Maybe looting 'coins' that can be turned into a merchant for healing pots or clarity pots. Limiting the 'coining rate' so you can't chain kill an alt for the items.

[Swish]

I think we need more threads about the new server to read.

Actually, I think we need a GM created thread where it all goes in with ideas only and not subsequent discussion of ideas...which is what most of the threads turn into.

[Porz]

I feel like you put down what you wanted to see implemented with a weak argument for others options.
Sz99-

[FoxxHound]

Not enough for me. Sorry bro I am carebear.

[Rokannis]

The Discord idea is still a terrible idea. Either hardcode teams or don't, none of this "in between" shit. The Discord team is just the "Red99" team, which will be full of faggots and griefers because it promotes selfishness instead of teamplay. This will destroy the Discord team and they will become unviable to end game. No one will play them but the same neckbeards that play Red99, and we see how well that worked out.

[Velus]

I wouldn't call this a list of general agreements. Many of these are way too splintered in acceptance.

The only ones you've stated that are "generally agreed" upon are:

Teams - Likely Good/Evil/Neutral.
XP Rate
Faction Loss for kills (although this wouldn't work well for a FFA-style evil team if it goes that direction).


Everything beyond that is getting into debate territory. A number of people would like open-level PvP, and only whatever the PvP death penalty is to be applied on an 'even con' level range.
A good number also want no PnP... so training and the like would be open game.

[Rec]

sounds like we need some more posts

[Nirgon]

Yeah, here

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/1011697/

I hate you all


(THE ABOVE LINK IS YOU GUYS BTW)

[Chronoburn]

Disagree with most ... just open a SZ server ...

Enough with the custom content too ... that shit will make development longer than necessary.

[Swish]

Enough with the custom content

[Nirgon]

But I had all these ideas for player controlled cities, a cross server raid finder and gear transmogrification so I can always look how I want :(

[Darksinga]

/face palm

I'm done. Refer to Smedy's post.

[Darksinga]

I feel like you put down what you wanted to see implemented with a weak argument for others options.
Sz99-

The only thing that I personally "wanted," I put as so. (Play Nice Policy.) And any one who disagrees with a play nice policy is obviously thinking of only the red's player base, not blue. What does training, bind camping, and corpse camping promote? More griefing. The only valid argument I've seen to a "self governed server" is more fun stories to be told? Lol? Know what a self governed society is? Anarchy.

Even the level cap is a weak argument tbh, but that's a pretty minor point and doesn't have too much prevalence on the rest of the post.

Everything else is fairly spot on. I don't understand why people keep suggesting custom things like turn in coins for pots, create new items (FV hammer,) start every race in the same city, etc... Just not classic.

[Darksinga]

The Discord idea is still a terrible idea. Either hardcode teams or don't, none of this "in between" shit. The Discord team is just the "Red99" team, which will be full of faggots and griefers because it promotes selfishness instead of teamplay. This will destroy the Discord team and they will become unviable to end game. No one will play them but the same neckbeards that play Red99, and we see how well that worked out.

Personally not my idea, but I've seen it posted several places over the forums and thought it was a good enough to reference here.

[Andis]

Actually Darksinga pretty much nailed it

A+ pal

[Darksinga]

I wouldn't call this a list of general agreements. Many of these are way too splintered in acceptance.

A number of people would like open-level PvP, and only whatever the PvP death penalty is to be applied on an 'even con' level range.


First of all, you have to comprehend that I summarized many threads together to get a central post. The only things that a select few may disagree with are a few SZ rules that ultimately resulted in that server ending up with the lowest population. If we want any one from blue to stay or even try out server, lets not make the same mistake of allowing griefers to run rampant twice.

Also, don't even understand how people would want a server where lvl 50s could shit on lvl 10s. It's not live where people on your team are not going to sit in CB all day and white knight protect you. This is a worse idea than the allowance of training, CC, bind camping. Hey pal welcome to the server eat this ice comet (wait I dont need to load ice comet- what's the lvl 30 nuke?) until you quit. GG Red GG.

[Darksinga]

Actually Darksinga pretty much nailed it

A+ pal

Thx pal, I'd give myself a B+ because a few ideas could be tweaked/thrown out. Progressive lvling is one. Discord FFA is another. 3 hardcoded teams might work best, just have to suck it up and get pooped on by evil teams obvious advantage. I'm obviously still rolling good team.

Made some edits based on feedback in thread. With the exception of the no PnP and no lvl range.

[Chronoburn]

Play-nice policy-- sorry you hardcore-ers
-No trains
-No CC (exception is if the person does not want to give up zone control and choses not to call LnS. Or are just to prideful.)
-No Bind Camping (No exceptions.)
-LnS enabled. MUST leave zone for one hour (can tweak time amount--but LnS is simply a must. Others have also suggested guild leader LnS agreements. If a guild loses in PvP the guild leader must forfeit zone control and call LnS to claim bodies safely.)

Having no "Play-Nice Policy" on SZ was one of the major appeals for myself. I don't know if I'm in the majority/minority in regards to this though.

-Training - Training allowed for smaller and/or casual guilds a chance in terms of content. It also prevents guilds from progressing at poop suck rates. I'm not really in favor of same team training but it was amusing to train Velketor to the ZL time to time ....

-No CC- Zones were typically controlled by teams... if you wanted to risk going to an opposing teams territory, you may be CCd if you died... but you made the choice. You could also ask for LnS but rarely this would happen on SZ. Going to Seb as a newt was intense but that sense of adventure was brought on by the risk involved with it.

-No Bind Camping - Don't bind in a stupid spot, don't go afk at or near your bind, and don't fall asleep at the keyboard (see Pino). If for some chance you are being camped, plug it and log on an alt.

LnS- Should be up to the players. GM intervention would be garbage.

Just my opinion, I'm probably not alone on this either.

[Azure]

Never Stop! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGEKnvXfYkU)

[Darksinga]

There can be a compromise made, you are right Chrono. Honestly though as a bard on past servers, training people with insta gate pots/rez boxes with absolutely no risk to me was insanely easy and it did halt opposing team progression (training Holocaust on Cazic Thule in PoFear.) but when you train a guild for hours on end so every one is wasting hours of playtime, I've found that the opposing team who is getting trained into the ground usually quits. Maybe it will be different on this server if training is allowed? Maybe it will make people roll more monks?

Explain to me, though, how a no rule policy will benefit those newbies on the server and also those blue players attempting the server for the first time? Will a no rule policy benefit the vast majority of the server or just those diehard players who are itching to re live Sullon Zek?

[Azure]

But I had all these ideas for player controlled cities, a cross server raid finder and gear transmogrification so I can always look how I want :(

+1 for gear transmogrification

[Chronoburn]

You are most likely right that a play-nice policy appeals to the masses (I am by no means a die-hard anymore though)

The problem is how many new folks will actually come try out this server? How many come from a blue background? Who came from a red server? Have these people even played eq in the past? Even with a play nice policy, how many will quit after getting killed and now have a 30 minute corpse run, etc. I really don't have an answer for any of these but all I know is if we shit up the rule set from the get-go just for a chance that a small percentage of players stick around, I don't know if it's worth it.

If we make the rules too player friendly, we may as well go play a WoW emu.

[heartbrand]

I'll love no rules, but the other 95% won't, so don't do that

[Tradesonred]

Bind camping allows for zone control without xp loss in pvp.

Im sorry but if youre not good/smart enough to deal with bind camping the devs shouldnt try to attract these kind of players on an EQ pvp server.

The less judgement calls GMs need to make, the better it will be for them (not being labeled corrupt for saying yes in an instance, and no in another) and for us.

[Fael]

Bind camping when warring over a particular encounter is necessary. If team 1 kills team 2 in Sirens Groto / CS / WW in a fight over klandicar, then it would be BS if team 2 recovered fast enough to derail team 1's attempt at klandicar.

I was corpse camped many a times, and i corpse camped others many a times in such situations. In fact, the above scenario was perhaps the funnest experience I ever had in an MMO.

Bring on Team PVP!

Dolic Soth
TMO Bard
Former member of Tides of Wrath

[Stasis01]

No rules = stallfest.

Keep things fun, where people can scrap a guild and be allowed LNS - a guild to do shit without someone dropping bombs (I would kind of like that, but I like people playing more)

Play nice policies are a great idea, and people who think it will make things completely blue just need to step back and realise it's a game - and that mentality has been driving people away. We need to work as a community to make this box more appealing to people.

[Stasis01]

Obviously individuals can't claim LNS - a guild leader would, and if they didn't scoot from the raid mob they were contesting there would be consequences.

That being said it might be difficult to let a guild LNS when the next non variance mob is up and they could potentially just move to that.

GM's/Devs would need to think it through on what they want to do - I'd say up guide staff and make a pretty strict PNP, but that's just me since seeing Red99 turn into bitter I'll murder your fucking family gaming.

[Darksinga]

Haha Stasis funny you say that... On VZ we eventually had an issue with LnS when my guild, Aerist, fought the opposing guild Aduentus, and they called "forward LnS" to the raid mob because they died in the previous connecting zone. I know a PnP will be a major pain in the ass to implement and keep up but the efforts made by Devs to keep things civil will benefit the masses. Only downside is possible injustices done to players. Up for suggestions if any one has ideas.

[Darksinga]

Bind camping when warring over a particular encounter is necessary. If team 1 kills team 2 in Sirens Groto / CS / WW in a fight over klandicar, then it would be BS if team 2 recovered fast enough to derail team 1's attempt at klandicar.

I was corpse camped many a times, and i corpse camped others many a times in such situations. In fact, the above scenario was perhaps the funnest experience I ever had in an MMO.

Bring on Team PVP!

Dolic Soth
TMO Bard
Former member of Tides of Wrath

I'd never say bind camping would be okay but corpse camping would be fine if players don't call LnS/want to re-engage.

[Agatha]

http://i.imgur.com/lJ2HX2o.jpg

[Tradesonred]

Corpse camping, i meant corpse camping.

Bind camping is fine though, most likely if youre getting bind camped its your own fault.

Dont bind within track range etc

[Azure]

Your posts in no way reflect the general consensus. Please stop suggesting SZ rules. It wont work SZ + VZ pure hardcore mode. Server needs custom content. As much as SZ was custom. And later changes to the game.

Blue is project 1999, red happend to be grandfathered in here when blue got real successful. But didn't get nearly the same attention/fixes blue had.

And as it turns out. Things were badly broken in 1999 for pvp.

[Fael]

yeah, my mistake. I meant Corpse Camping.

Dolic

[Kevynne]

Summary:
-SZ hardcoded teams
-VZ and TZ PvP range
-VZ and TZ Play Nice Policy
-Unique Name/Team Colors
-Behavior Rewarded XP Bonuses
-No immortal healers

1 item loot

It pleases both sides of the yes/no item loot war.

[Dullah]

Teams should have nothing to do with race. For balancing purposes, teams should just be a custom choice unrelated to anything else.

Also, having all 3 teams that are the same and can only attack the other two teams is bad. Needs to be a team with FFA capabilities. This allows for players who want the protection of a team and the environment more conducive to grouping, guilds and alliances. Then it provides a way for players who don't want to be griefed by their own team. Surely all those endorsing teams would not join the FFA faction... There is really no drawback to this, as it should appease everyone unless your motivation for teams is to exploit the protection it affords you to be an ass.

[Zuranthium]

For balancing purposes, teams should just be a custom choice unrelated to anything else.

This is an RPG.

[Absynthe2k5]

[QUOTE=RoguePhantom;1100789]
Think Fansy would have been able to become a 'legend' on VZ or RZ? Or Marathe?/QUOTE]

Marathe was a legend because he was a special needs kid. Fansy was just a faction burning retard, those were a dime a dozen. Marathe is so wildly remembered cause you could see his corpes in almost every single zone in game and he was always in roleplay mode in the /ooc channels. (We all suspected he was a special needs kid so most folks would try to help him out)

[Nirgon]

Please tell me about all the problems live PvP had

[Absynthe2k5]

As some other folks have put it...would you rather have a couple common sense rules you shouldn't need to do to begin with and have a pop of 300+ or a no holds bar retard fest and have 50 players of which 40 are guilded?

3 teams? Meh a bit too much for low pop servers. Had it been good vs evil on SZ would have worked better imo. Is it wowlike...no derps.

The FFA system is cool, you end up with teams, not our fault the other half of the server can't be nice enough to each other long enough to gang up and be a team that can take raids/pvp objectives.

OOR Heal or Help flags you. This is perfect "if possible"

Leaderboards, yellowtext, rewards for pvp'ing even if just giving vanity skins from items of later expacs or something along that pew pew get goodies lines.

Maybe just using item skins from later xpacs exclusively on red could entice blue's over. (not sure if viable, or even possible or desired)

[Nirgon]

An FFA team on a teams server


You've all really lost it

[Dullah]

An FFA team on a teams server


You've all really lost it

http://darsanaroldan.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/think-outside-the-box-300x213.jpg

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=120843

[Chronoburn]

/grin