Something Detrimental For PvP Deaths

[AffEcT]

Wanna start a discussion regarding PvP death penalty.
Sullon Zek had the xp loss + coinloot
Rallos Zek item/coin loot
Did Vallon Tallon have faction loss or something?

Anyway! What could be a good penalty for the new server?
What do you guys think about res effect in PvP?
There needs to be something in order to limit bindrushing.
Thoughts and ideas on this plz. k thx!

[Stasis01]

NO

[Stasis01]

Do you know how many people I made quit with EXP loss, by me I mean Holocaust and the fellas.

[AffEcT]

Did you even read the post?

[nilbog]

I didn't like exp loss and championed the cause of removing it. If this is something players want back, you'll have to convince me of why and I'll re-evaluate it.

Having played on Rallos, I'm on the pro-item loot team.

People that claim to see the future say no one will play with item loot. Despite me not believing them, there are a variety of ways to implement it that we discussed on the stream. People played on other servers than coin-only teams and if possible, we should take the best parts of all of the servers.

Choice of 1 item, droppable. Not primary/secondary/ranged.
In bags? Not in bags? Could also make bagged loot droppable and the primary 8 inventory slots safe areas. Meaning if you sacrificed a bag slot to place an item there, it would be safe from looting. Alternately, you could make the items you're actually wearing safe from looting and inventoried droppables lootable.


One suggestion I haven't heard was droppable items by type. That circumvents the weapon/armor problem and points specifically cash loot. For those who do eqemu stuff, something like items.itemtype 14,15,17,21,38 and != nodrop. So that's droppable food, drink, gems, potions, pages, runes, etc. Just something extra?


Could make it non-armor, non-weapon pieces in general. Could make it earrings, rings, necklaces only.. on and on. We are not limited to the classic implementations of the original servers.


There needs to be something in order to limit bindrushing.


Casters do not respawn with mana.

[runlvlzero]

Faction loss from DIEING to pvp would be a terrible idea IMO. Otherwise I'm ok with coin and or item loot.

XP death sucks because it discourages people to "level up and fight" on a box with a level range +4/-4

On sullon xp death was ok because the box was more a:
RP server less of a PvP server
And because anyone could attack anyone, there was no good reason to stay below level 6. So you didn't have low levels griefing low levels.

It seems like the community wants a more deathmatch style box where PvP Happens a lot more often. If you want that you need to:
Allow melee binding in a few more select zones (not all as bind rushing is an issue on melee)
Make a zone like shadowrest on live and implement rez effects with a translocator NPC for bind. So on death people can med, and wait 20 mins before re-engaging.

This will encourage more random world pvp and penalize people who engage in mass pvp a little less.

Also corpse summoners are a must if you want mass pvp in zones like sky/hate,seb/fear/solb on a regular basis.

Ya'll may call this candyland shit. But it was all a factor in live pvp becoming more common they were all considered posative changes by the zek community.

TLDR ++++ 20-30 min rez effect in PVP and a safe one way out from death zone (i.e. u cant zone in alive) that is a safe zone with global ooc disabled in that zone, and allows people to rest up druing/after rez timer. I can deal with just rez timer, but would like to see a shadowrest implemented.

[AffEcT]

Casters do not respawn with mana.
I am aware of this that but melee can still loot weapons and charge if they are bound close by.
Ill give you a great example. City of Mist.
You can be a epic rogue. Attack a player, get killed. Respawn and loot your weapons and charge the player again. And you can keep doing this until you win or the player leaves.

This is a problem. Kael comes to mind on the vztz box where Rexx had his cleric bound and would respawn get mana and dispell the maintank while we where clearing for the names and stuff.

I am not saying that this is a huge issue but it is a problem in some zones.

[filthyphil]

There certainly should be a penalty for PvP death on the new server. Here on red99 a common tactic to gain a foothold in zones is to simply bind in the zone. What this means for the player defending his camp within the zone is, he will have no choice but to continuously kill the attacking player until they log, leave the zone, or risk PvE while someone that you know is going to attack you again meditates at his bind 30 seconds away from your camp.

For instance my SK is in Guk at AC camp, a mage appears in the zone and I kill him about 3 times heads up. After the 3rd time he binds directly outside of the AC camp, just out of the water. I kill him at least another 5 times hoping to break his spirit. All the while he just respawns & meditates in a group of mobs that are KoS to me & attack me everytime I attack him. Now I have to leave the zone because if I let him sit there at his bind, he will just meditate and attack me again while I PvE.

So in short, the mage wins the zone because he risks losing nothing, but stands to gain the camp. While I risk losing the camp, exp death to PvE, & all the potential item/exp gain I lost while dealing with the situation.

No risk rewards this kind of behavior.

[Thakisis_VZ]

On Vallon zek , you were able to loot money.

and hi btw affect.

[AffEcT]

Hey Thak!
Hows it going man ;)

[AffEcT]

I just came up with a weird idea here.
What if you would have res effect say 10 mins after taking a PvP death.
What if you could loot an PvP item like the Deity coin on Sullon Zek.
And what if you could turn that coin or whatever it could be in to Priest of Discord and that would remove the res effect.

So as long as you have a few kills you are good. Or even make the item lore... :P

[AffEcT]

Kinda like a buy back in dota :P

[AffEcT]

Just spitballing here :P

[Rec]

I don't need to see the future to know that new players(non hardcore), that the server needs to survive, that you're going to such great lengths to attract with a teams ruleset, won't tolerate losing their gear. They don't have the talent they're going to be losing lots of gear. They're struggling just to get their leather/banded and maybe an item from a dungeon that they're happy they got. Maybe if you let people loot food and water

[AffEcT]

I don't need to see the future to know that new players(non hardcore), that the server needs to survive, that you're going to such great lengths to attract with a teams ruleset, won't tolerate losing their gear. They don't have the talent they're going to be losing lots of gear. They're struggling just to get their leather/banded and maybe an item from a dungeon that they're happy they got. Maybe if you let people loot food and water

I started on RZ so i know that item loot is a lot of fun.
But that being said, i agree with you that new players and well, players who are not
used to the brutal nature of item loot will probably not stick around after a griefing session or two.

[AffEcT]

People that claim to see the future say no one will play with item loot. Despite me not believing them, there are a variety of ways to implement it that we discussed on the stream. People played on other servers than coin-only teams and if possible, we should take the best parts of all of the servers.

Choice of 1 item, droppable. Not primary/secondary/ranged.
In bags? Not in bags? Could also make bagged loot droppable and the primary 8 inventory slots safe areas. Meaning if you sacrificed a bag slot to place an item there, it would be safe from looting. Alternately, you could make the items you're actually wearing safe from looting and inventoried droppables lootable.

Could make it non-armor, non-weapon pieces in general. Could make it earrings, rings, necklaces only.. on and on. We are not limited to the classic implementations of the original servers.
.

I like where you are going with this but if we are talking about looting food from someones dead body. We could just skip the whole thing if its down to that.
Questions is if we do have item loot. What would be an acceptable level.

[mtb tripper]

did they say they were going to make another server?

[AffEcT]

did they say they were going to make another server?

Yes

[nilbog]

There's a lot of options.

I didn't say just food. It's possible to make it consumables (including food and drink), potions, gems, items with a vendor price < X, on and on.

The only argument I ever see is.. . "People won't play because of this or that". Like for me personally, I would want more incentive for pvping. RZ on live, and the original vztz emu were my item loot experiences. Had a lot of fun on both. Gives people a reason to do quests for no-drop gear.

While developing p99, people told me to do the exact opposite of most everything I did so I have a hard time believing them considering the server is successful in terms of population.

As I said, there were more servers than the coin-only ones. Consider that a lot of players came from an FFA environment and are making concessions for teams; try to be more open minded to their original server rulesets as well.

[Giovanni]

Food
Drink
Bandaids
% Chance Thin Bone Wand
% Chance Corpse Summon Potion

[Senatelol]

Keep primary/secondary/ranged unlootable, allow every other slot to be looted.

If a melee gets his primary looted and doesn't have another in the bank, he's quite fucked.

However, if item loot comes down to "bone chips, food and water", then what is the point of even having item loot anyways?

The biggest problem I see with this is the prevalence of naked casters with nothing to lose/everything to gain.

[nilbog]

However, if item loot comes down to "bone chips, food and water", then what is the point of even having item loot anyways?


People can't get past the food and drink example.

[Rec]

Roleplaying Iron Chefs approve

[Something'Witty]

I would suggest:

Coin loot

PvP death effects (similar to rez)

Very slight xp loss (barely noticeable upon one death, but would add up)

Maybe Item loot - the tradable non-magic in any slot (including bags) might be interesting. Maybe allow players to loot stacks of items or maybe non-lore items. Dunno, haven't given it a lot of thought, but there are a lot of possible options.

[Potus]

Item loot is horrible and has never worked on any PvP server. It always leads to the server being nothing but naked casters. Considering how bad melees are at start it's a horrible idea.

Exp loss makes no sense (where is the exp gain for pvp?) and again, dying in pvp is already detrimental enough in that you go back to your bind naked and without mana and have to get your corpse from someone who is likely to kill you again.

[Pudge]

Food/water still better than nothing. But as I posted before, I encourage the lootability of all stackables and expendable clickies

[SamwiseRed]

On Vallon zek , you were able to loot money.

and hi btw affect.

master of the pvp?

[Darksinga]

Just make it coin drop and ears (an idea implemented on LoZ.)

You have looted Darksinga's ear!

Just a bragging right for players tbh. We don't need more than that. I do like the randomized loot/possibly non gear loot--just gems/whatever but I think we're making things a little too complicated. Simplicity is best.

Also, not on topic at all, but another thing I loved about LoZ was that you could discover items for the first time.

You have discovered a manastone!

Just kind of a cool aspect that promotes blue behavior to be the first person to discover an item. Look at eqpvp.com and look under player's profiles and you'll see item discoveries etc.

As said before, just more bragging rights, which in our EQ society we all participate in a pissing contest.

[runlvlzero]

Shadowrest =)

[Old_PVP]

Exp loss on a pvp death is not good. SZ ruleset did have exp loss, but SZ also had a server wide exp BONUS, which everyone seems to forget. PVP servers obviously attract pvpers, not bluebies who want to sit around and grind back exp.

However, exp GAIN would be a great idea for pvp kills. The amount of exp gained should be equal to the amount gained by a mob of the same level as your opponent.

In my opinion, Item Loot is very healthy for any pvp server, for various reasons.
It depends on which angle you look at it, but in many ways, item loot actually encourages pvp, and also other aspects of the game like questing; not the opposite like most people believe.

I keep seeing people say "item loot is horrible, because this is an item driven game", and that it "discourages pvp".

Think about it this way, if item loot was NOT implemented, and there was never any fear of losing your gear, how would this affect our pvp environment?

Since this is indeed an "item driven game", it is only natural to feel the need to farm the best items in order to "win". Since there would be no fear of losing your precious gear, people would now be more inclined to spend the extra time farming the best gear possible, which means more PVE....and ultimately LESS PVP.

People would be less inclined to spend hours and hours farming a piece of gear, if it could then be stolen from them with 1 death in an item loot system. Item loot would then encourage more questing, to obtain more no drop gear, which gets people moving from zone to zone, which gets people running into each other. So item loot eventually leads to MORE PVP and less PVE. Discuss.

[Vexenu]

Since this is indeed an "item driven game", it is only natural to feel the need to farm the best items in order to "win". Since there would be no fear of losing your precious gear, people would now be more inclined to spend the extra time farming the best gear possible, which means more PVE....and ultimately LESS PVP.

People would be less inclined to spend hours and hours farming a piece of gear, if it could then be stolen from them with 1 death in an item loot system. Item loot would then encourage more questing, to obtain more no drop gear, which gets people moving from zone to zone, which gets people running into each other. So item loot eventually leads to MORE PVP and less PVE. Discuss.

I'm sorry, but this is massively flawed logic. With no item loot, when you get an item, you're guaranteed to keep it. There's no risk of losing it or having to replace it by farming plat or trying for another rare spawn. With item loot, having to replace gear means having to do more PvE.

Also, item loot DOES encourage people to play with less gear...which is why they role naked casters, which totally defeats the purpose of having item loot to begin with. And let's be serious, there aren't nearly enough quests for no drop items at the low and mid levels.

I understand that some old school Rallos guys like item loot, but it's seriously a total non-starter here. More than any other rule, it's a total dealbreaker for tons of people. Adding item loot to the server means you pretty much cut your potential player base in half, if not more, especially with people considering coming over from Blue. Item loot is simply a recipe for another dead server. EQ Devs realized it was a bad rule, which is why it was never replicated on the other 3 PvP servers, and isn't even on the grief paradise of Red 99 today.

[Thrilla]

I didn't like exp loss and championed the cause of removing it. If this is something players want back, you'll have to convince me of why and I'll re-evaluate it.

Having played on Rallos, I'm on the pro-item loot team.

People that claim to see the future say no one will play with item loot. Despite me not believing them, there are a variety of ways to implement it that we discussed on the stream. People played on other servers than coin-only teams and if possible, we should take the best parts of all of the servers.

Choice of 1 item, droppable. Not primary/secondary/ranged.
In bags? Not in bags? Could also make bagged loot droppable and the primary 8 inventory slots safe areas. Meaning if you sacrificed a bag slot to place an item there, it would be safe from looting. Alternately, you could make the items you're actually wearing safe from looting and inventoried droppables lootable.



Could make it non-armor, non-weapon pieces in general. Could make it earrings, rings, necklaces only.. on and on. We are not limited to the classic implementations of the original servers.



Casters do not respawn with mana.

If you do item loot I would hope that resists are tweaked BEFORE any item loot is implemented. May I suggest RZ type only non NO-DROP and not primary/secondary/offhand. Also nothing from bags. Even then I still think it is too hardcore for this population and will make PvP even duller, back in the day people generally didn't care about dying as much as they do in such a small community.

On RZ I'd wager 75-80% of the population ran around in NODROP only gear, the top tier PvPers went full gear because the resist system rewarded the risk vs reward to partial a spell vs possibly losing an item but could tip the scale of a fight. Resists have to be like Live PvP if you want item-loot to succeed otherwise just expect a bunch of naked ass people never wearing the gear and engaging only in zerg-like PvP where they feel they absolutely will win and won't take risks at all becuz of the thought of losing an item.

If you can replicate Live resists and pull it off it definitely adds another fun layer to the game, loved watching people run away as they bagged every single item starting with their robe if they were a caster lol. On Live it also rewarded risk takers, was like playing the lottery if you can pull off a quick gank in a raid force and loot a Trak BP/Legs cause they thought they were safe and didn't have the time to bag it. The idea has a lot of upside, but I feel the smallish population will make it harder to succeed as it did on Live. It also promotes more fatalities in the sense that if 2 people are going toe to toe and both are at risk of dying, they both may stick around becuz of the gamble of the item loot where as now people just b-line for the zone. Again I feel all the upside w/ item loot is completely dependant on the PvP resist system being reliable.

[Billbike]

Coin loot.

Anything farther than that is a deterant.

[Bazia]

leader board great motivator for most

you play like shit its recorded

[big league chew]

permadeath + electric shock
ZAAAAAp

[Tradesonred]

I didn't like exp loss and championed the cause of removing it. If this is something players want back, you'll have to convince me of why and I'll re-evaluate it.

Having played on Rallos, I'm on the pro-item loot team.

People that claim to see the future say no one will play with item loot. Despite me not believing them, there are a variety of ways to implement it that we discussed on the stream. People played on other servers than coin-only teams and if possible, we should take the best parts of all of the servers.

Choice of 1 item, droppable. Not primary/secondary/ranged.
In bags? Not in bags? Could also make bagged loot droppable and the primary 8 inventory slots safe areas. Meaning if you sacrificed a bag slot to place an item there, it would be safe from looting. Alternately, you could make the items you're actually wearing safe from looting and inventoried droppables lootable.



Could make it non-armor, non-weapon pieces in general. Could make it earrings, rings, necklaces only.. on and on. We are not limited to the classic implementations of the original servers.



Casters do not respawn with mana.

I would patch in a set of low, mid and high level no drop gear. That way we would establish a threshold which you cant go below. Something like the halloween 2001 set

[big league chew]

yeh and mounts
and AAs
and instances & augs
and uhhhhh hookers

[Handpartytowel]

I'm sorry, but this is massively flawed logic.

actually old pvp's statements aligned with my experience with item loot.

item loot is amazing. it makes the game scary / exciting beyond any other gaming i have ever experienced. it worked great in eq and uo.

it would basically solve the #1 problem bitched about on r99 immediately, which is that there is nothing to do unless you are in nihilium. small organized groups that dont have enough people to contest trakanon, could still get trakanon loots by jacking up xp groups in kc. then nilly would be forced to send the a squad on a manhunt to get their shit back, meanwhile being constantly afraid of losing even more of their hard earned pixels.

interestingly this also fixes the #1 complaint of people IN nihilium which is: why the fuck am i wasting my time raiding dracoliche #472 when i got my bcg in janurary of last year? good news, while thrilla was out pvping people in heresy all day that were guerrilla warfare fucking up our apps and alts, he picked up mrylokar legs but lost his bcg. he needs to go to this raid to replenish his pixels before going out and having awesome, meaningful pvp all day tomorrow.

yes some people roll around on naked wizards. how is that different from here, where half the pvp kills on the server are by wizards? dont want to risk your paladins fbss to a naked wizard? play a naked wizard. want to absolutely buttfuck naked wizards 3v1? play a geared melee. (this is of course assuming someone implements some kind of resist check).

the whole bagging thing is fixed very simply by coding it to loot wearable items in the persons bags as well.

im ok with the idea of limiting the lootable slots to say earrings, rings, neck and helm, + a defined set of clickies like gate pots, cure pots, wands etc. these are basically all resist boost / pvp oriented items that wont ruin your ability to go xp. you dont get ganked into complete nudity, and melees haste items are safe. this + the same items being lootable from bags would provide a decent level of safety from ultimate grief + prevent bagging.

-----------------------------------------

all that being said, i dont have very high hopes for item loot being implemented since many are against it or not willing to try in the first place.

on xp loss:

xp loss was fine in classic. it became retarded 51+ when the penalty became 70 times worse in terms of time required xping to make back the loss. make it scale so that the xp loss is always equivalent to about 4 solo'd dark blue mobs.

reward the killer with half of that xp, (split among group so healers get some love). this gives an incentive to pvp, an incentive to not go for the intentional xp death, and is a net loss so you cant exploit it to transfer all your xp from one char to another. make some kind of cap so a lvl 1 chain killing a 60 is not a valid way to level a new toon.

-----------------------------------------

one last thought on the subject, a system i have posted before, but still like:

implement a custom vendor that sells pvp crystals for plat, and another vendor that sells consumable pvp oriented items for crystals [lava diamond, tash/malo wands, targetable grow mushroom, no blind shadow step pot, 4 slot instant junkbuff pot, manasieve wand, spirit of cheetah pelt, lute of highsun, dmf pot, fang of rabies, ...]. you can utilize the unused ldon currency spot in your inventory for this mechanic. make these expensive so it is a legit plat sink.

* the pvp crystals have no weight, and cannot be banked.
* when you kill someone else, you can loot all of their crystals up to how many you have on you.
* one of the crystal bought items can be looted from a slain enemy's corpse. (regardless of how many crystals you have)

this should accomplish a few things:
- higher risk/reward for pvp, while not as soul crushing as item loot
- system is opt in. if you want to be safe, dont buy crystals. unlike running around as a naked caster in item loot, you stand to gain only as much as you put on the table. conversely if youre a big dick box legend with 100k crystals, some scrub with 50 crystals and a gank squad doesnt get to loot everything, but it still doubles their pile.
- gives real value to plat to foster healthy economy
- want a high stakes duel with someone talking shit? instead of calling them out for char deletion which no one has ever gone through with ever, go buy 10k plat worth of crystals and meet at the flagpole after school.

a note on the items - i would either not have, or temper instant gib items like conflag and golem wands, and instant get away items like gate and da idol by making them lore, giving a cast time and making them expensive. obviously all of the fine tuning minutia would be up for debate.

[Handpartytowel]

yes that was a big wall. u can thank chipotle and coffee for a lot of time on the shitter to think about this thread.

tldr: implement SZ ruleset exactly on new server, RZ ruleset exactly on current red server.

[RoguePhantom]

leader board great motivator for most

you play like shit its recorded

^^^^^


A REAL Leaderboard, with points, historical, searchable records will be huge.

The SZ LEaderboard, and able to see who was best at which time, was awesome.

People would brag all the time about topping the boards, no one cared who cleared the planes if their guild was at the bottom of the weekly point standings.

[heartbrand]

we alrdy have a leaderboard and still low pop

also great/amazing post by HPT agree 1200%

[Velerin]

Item loot in Everquest is just awful. Crap is too damn hard to camp/quest for to lose because you have to afk to get the door or something. It just caters to naked casters like everyone says, and I always play casters. Same with experience loss. Exp in classic eq is slow as hell. Loss of exp on death sucks so you try your best to not die. Most people don't have pocket rezzes anywhere they want it. Good pvp environment means people need to die, a lot.
The great thing about teams pvp is you really don't need incentive to kill someone. He's an enemy so he needs to die and get out of my zone. That's all the incentive I need. I played exclusively on the pvp servers back in the day. I remember a few changes that were actually good. That Shadowrest zone, pvp rez effects that made it pretty much impossible to bind rush at least for like 15-20 minutes. Don't remember exact effects but just make no mana, snared, and maybe drastic reduction in stats so melee is worthless. I think what killed pvp in EQ was as pve mobs scaled up and up, so did spells/weapons but also resists. Pre-60 a caster was great, post 60 being a caster was stop, cast for 5 seconds (hoping melee was dumb or not paying attention), nuke resisted, melee hits autoattack and hits you for more than that resisted spell would've even did.

[Chronoburn]

Exp death worked great on SZ. Put it back in.

PvPing without any fear of losing something is pretty lame.

[Potus]

Exp death worked great on SZ. Put it back in.

PvPing without any fear of losing something is pretty lame.

Yeah I wish pvp had something to lose like my money, my time, and being corpse camped out of wherever I was. If only!

[runlvlzero]

It only worked on SZ because it was an RP sever and you could out level the griefers and still get revenge on them.

Shadowrest and corpse summoning encouraged mass pvp. People didn't feel like they would get bind rushed and it made everyone got to a zone far away and wait out a rez timer. It made contesting camps actually matter.

[Doktoor]

I just came up with a weird idea here.
What if you would have res effect say 10 mins after taking a PvP death.


Very good idea. 30 minutes would be too much. 10 to 15 would be a great idea.

[Pudge]

HPT i like your crystals idea. only thing is instead of straight plat (rewarding pve poopsocks with even more pvp power) i'd try to make it more pvp focused. (as you described it, with the plat-to-crystal method, everyone would just buy their crystal-gear immediately after buying their crystals, giving no chance to actually loot ppl's crystals, only the resulting items)

make it so that you initially can buy up to 10 crystals. once you hit 10 crystals, you cannot get any more from the vendor. the rest you have to pvp for. ALSO mke it so you can ONLY buy crystals in a pack of 10. and make 1 or 2 minor pvp items sell for 6 or 7 crystals, so ppl can at least buy a couple things to try and get a leg up.

by leaving the cost at 6 or 7, it means this guy's going to at least have a couple crystals left over that ppl can get from him when they kill him. but he'll probably want to max out again at 10 so he can lewt more of other ppl's crystals (if he can afford the extra cost of topping up, that is).

i'm liking this crystal thing more than item loot. because it is essentially an "opt in" item loot, plat sink for the economy, and only "clickies" or expendable items will be lost if they get lewted. so ppl can't really cry about grief.

only thing is the items can't be too overpowered, and i think most should still be attainable (but rare) in-game. So you could get a conflag wand from Hate (still wiz-only), or you could use PVP POWER CRYSTALS! YEA! (still wiz only). both versions should be lootable imo.. but then the system would not be completely opt-in, so whatev.

hardest part of this crystals thing would be pricing items and coming up with things that were fair to put in-game. which i think is definitely doable.

nilbog, do you like this pseudo item-loot/pvp points system? im thinking it looks pretty good. i know die-hards want "real" item loot, but that is just too griefy.



or we could just make rings and necklace lootable (INCLUDING BAGS), and call it a day :P

[Potus]

I'm curious as to who are the people getting bindrushed here? It's not really hard to kill a naked melee and casters have to sit and med to full with no food/water before traveling back to get their body.

[Crenshinabon]

I am all for non primary hands slot item loot.
With teams this seems like incredible fun and more fair.

Fixes a huge issue not even mentioned ..... twinks....
I loved fighting peoples twinks for the slim chance i could kill them and get some sweet gear.

Would provide a real sense of comradery for newer players.

I am 80% casual player.
I would be extremely cautious when i used my real gear.
I would love fighting other peoples twinks for chance of sweet loot.

Again... this fixes twinks for the most part.
This makes quest items more valuable.

Makes EQ thrilling and so fun.

[dogbarf]

Rallos style item loot pls.


Or FV + RZ rules with the ability to bind certain items to yourself for plat.

[Elderan]

There's a lot of options.

I didn't say just food. It's possible to make it consumables (including food and drink), potions, gems, items with a vendor price < X, on and on.

The only argument I ever see is.. . "People won't play because of this or that". Like for me personally, I would want more incentive for pvping. RZ on live, and the original vztz emu were my item loot experiences. Had a lot of fun on both. Gives people a reason to do quests for no-drop gear.

While developing p99, people told me to do the exact opposite of most everything I did so I have a hard time believing them considering the server is successful in terms of population.

As I said, there were more servers than the coin-only ones. Consider that a lot of players came from an FFA environment and are making concessions for teams; try to be more open minded to their original server rulesets as well.

Item loot is way too hardcore for the crowd you want to attract.

As said in the streams you want to bring people back but you also want to get blue people as well. Item loot will chase off blue players faster then R99 did.

No to item loot.

[Vamael]

at the start of tallon zek / vallon zek there was a small window of time of item loot. It did turn to just faction loss in the major cities of that faction, and coin loot.

[Handpartytowel]

i'd try to make it more pvp focused. (as you described it, with the plat-to-crystal method, everyone would just buy their crystal-gear immediately after buying their crystals, giving no chance to actually loot ppl's crystals, only the resulting items)


well its essentially opt in however much risk / reward you want. if you want to hang out at the 5$ poker table that's fine. if you want to go kick it at ball so hard university in the back room at the bellagio with foreign dignitaries and movie stars, u better bring your black mastercard.

this is also why i put in the bit about anyone being able to loot 1 crystal reward item, regardless of if they have any crystals. so even if you immediately go convert your crystals to items, those are still at risk, and you also block yourself from procuring more rewards through pvp by doing this. it also gives a little bit of an edge in the risk v reward of the system to noobs, in that if you have nothing you always stand a chance to gain, but the more you have the more you stand to gain / lose.

i would like it to end up being kind of a dick waving contest, so big name pvpers will post ss's of killshots on forums with red ms paint arrows highlighting their 10k stack of crystals on the line while slaying others. this will hopefully also give a little incentive to go after 60s with gear rather than naked low 50s.

your idea of limiting the crystals bought at vendors could be interesting, but i might do it from the other side. if there were some way to make the item vendor not sell to you once you had x number of crystal rewards in your possession, including bank, it could force you to go out and pvp with some crystals on your body once you started getting into baller mode. this would also probably make people burn through the items quicker, increasing the plat sink rate. you could always continue to loot items and crystals through pvp, just not purchase them from the vendor. i could go either way with this one. i do see how the hoarding thing could be a problem, but i also think the items being lootable innately takes care of this.

another more simple option would be to just make all the items lore. definitely something that could be trial and error tweaked.

[Chronoburn]

SZ rule set .... we already have an exp bonus ... I would expect that to stay. SZ also had less exp loss on death .... implement that and run with it.

Item loot is too hardcore for most ... it's a lot easier to replace exp than to replace a fungi. But if you are going to implement item loot, make items in bags lootable to prevent people from running/bagging.

[Alecta]

But also, Sullon XP loss was rezzable - it never was here.You would die 3-4 times contesting, decide that was enough, log off to save timers, then go back later and 96% your way back up.

I am pretty sure the implementation of pvp xp loss turned everyone here off of it for good.

[Nirgon]

So don't wear your fungi solo pvping? Or bag it before you die?

I will tell you that a no level range server with item loot is a terrible idea
I will tell you that a teams server, especially with no level range, with item loot is a terrible idea

And yet... I push for it so hard on the FFA server along with a 4 level range. Why could that be.... hmm...