A new 3 team model to appease the masses

[Dullah]

Team 1 : Able to fight against both team 2 and team 3. Has the advantage of being protected from team members. Team would be a custom choice and not dictated by race, class or deity. Any race/class combination would be accepted into any team. Team 1 could possibly be given the "good" team designation for flavor.

Team 2: Team 2 works like team 1 for all intents and purposes. Team 2 could be given the "neutral" team designation. Custom starter cities could be given to reflect their team and to place them in a closer proximity to their members, but thats completely optional and unnecessary.

Team 3 (discord): This team's players not only fights team 1 (good?) and team 2 (neutral?), but can also fight each other. In exchange for the ability to attack anyone, being a discord player would come with heavy constraints.

Some ideas would be allowing team1/team2 to group, rez, port, or possibly cross heal one another, but still be able to attack each other. The discord team, on the other hand, get no help from anyone, no out-of-team group capabilities, no ability to give or receive healing outside of their team.

(Optional) In addition, the discord team could be allocated only 1 city where they could bank/train/vendor (think outlaw city in Darkfall), probably Qeynos or Freeport (has most class trainer except shaman - would need custom spell/trainer npcs to be added). The only non-classic faction adjustment would be bumping discord players who would normally be 'ready to attack' to dubious in the discord city (apprehensive to vendors/trainers/bankers). To prevent players from losing access to quests, discord players should have normal faction with other cities according to their race/class/deity, only unable to interact with vendors etc.

Designating a city or cities to any of the factions would be completely optional, but would make for a lot of fun city warfare and give team1 and team2 a common cause in defeating the evil discord team.

Essentially, the discord team would be the evil scourge of the earth, much like the PKs of rallos zek or the pks in Ultima Online. Regardless of the quarrels of the major alliances on RZ or UO, everyone killed the random PKs without mercy.

If peoples motives were in the right place, some variation of this system should appease everyone. This model provides two protected teams from which players could establish guilds and cultivate alliances. Then it allows a faction for players who prefer FFA and those who don't want to deal with the countless ways to grief players using teams. Its a win, win.










--
Other possible ideas (optional):

The discord team would be similar to that of the red (pk) player in Ultima Online, where being a criminal comes at a cost.

Discord players could suffer a greater penalty upon dying in PvP such as a debuff for X amount of time.

Players in the discord team could be subject to attacks by players in a larger range. Custom rules would have to come into play like those suggested by Rogean involving out of range healing. If you attack a discord player outside of normal range, you'll be subject to attacks from all discord players of that same range for a certain period of time.

Players from Team 1 or 2 can freely PK Discord players anywhere without faction hits (assuming faction hits will be a part of a teams server (they should be)).

Assuming faction works properly, a guard may assist a discord player in the discord city if he has the higher faction, but if you kill that player without provocation, you suffer no faction hit.

A discord player receives no faction hit for killing players of any team (including their own) in the discord city.

If you kill a discord player in any city, you suffer no faction hit regardless if you were the aggressor.

If a discord player kills a player as the aggressor in any city other than the discord city, they receive a faction hit.

Discord players cannot bind in any racial capital other than the discord city. Binding anywhere else including OT or FV should be fine.

More ideas to come.

[Swish]

Reminds me of Agatha's "stop suggesting things" thread.

[runlvlzero]

Sounds like another solid idea. I get why you want to constrain people to a localized area. I would give them Neriak though. And amiable factions with their home town/side.

Reminds me of Agatha's "stop suggesting things" thread.

You guys.... what do you want? If the devs were happy with the box the way it IS they wouldn't have said anything.

Its funny how bad they get hammered. And yeah I hear fishy stories from all sides. But they are genuinely looking for solid input. Because they want to try things.

Would you rather them do it completely blind? Its obvs they do need input. Sirk knows all but is biased, and the others, know varying amounts about pvp. Have different experiences.

Care to care, that they cared, to bring it up.

[Dullah]

Sounds like another solid idea. I get why you want to constrain people to a localized area. I would give them Neriak though. And amiable factions with their home town/side.

The idea is for staff to have to change as little as possible and keep the server as classic as possible. Neriak only naturally has 8 out of 14 class trainers while freeport has 13 of 14. Freeport is also a pretty neutral faction towards most race/class combos except iksar. I think Freeport would be great, as it allows them to be besieged on every side making it harder. Being a discord city, they could actually leave a lot of the non-essential npc factions the same and let players figure out where they can and cannot go. Even in classic EQ, many players on good terms with most of the city would still be attacked in the slums where the necro/sk guilds are found. Same principle should apply.

I say dubious faction only for those who would normally be ready to attack. Player faction would be completely classic otherwise and would not affect their faction with other cities except with vendors, so if they were willing to risk it, they could complete quests in any city permitted their class and alignment naturally allows it.

This also means players of the other 2 teams could still use freeport if they normally had the faction and were willing to risk it.

[Smedy]

everyone on team discord

[Dullah]

everyone on team discord

Lol.

But we already have a ffa server, and everyone knows how bad that server is. Surely everyone wouldn't want to go to team discord... right?

[runlvlzero]

The idea is for staff to have to change as little as possible and keep the server as classic as possible. Neriak only naturally has 8 out of 14 class trainers while freeport has 13 of 14. Freeport is also a pretty neutral faction towards most race/class combos except iksar. I think Freeport would be great, as it allows them to be besieged on every side making it harder. Being a discord city, they could actually leave a lot of the non-essential npc factions the same and let players figure out where they can and cannot go. Even in classic EQ, many players on good terms with most of the city would still be attacked in the slums where the necro/sk guilds are found. Same principle should apply.

I say dubious faction only for those who would normally be ready to attack. Player faction would be completely classic otherwise and would not affect their faction with other cities except with vendors, so if they were willing to risk it, they could complete quests in any city permitted their class and alignment naturally allows it.

This also means players of the other 2 teams could still use freeport if they normally had the faction and were willing to risk it.

All good points. Neriak does have Foreign Quarter though =)

[Dullah]

Ya, I wouldn't be against them being set up in any particular city. Just don't think neriak would work though when these teams wouldn't be racial, and with neriak being essential for dark elf players of team1 and team2.

With the discord team starting in Qeynos or Freeport, all good/neutral human players could easily start in the other human city. Really one of these two cities are the only ones that wouldn't have a negative impact on the other two teams and require a ton of unclassic changes.

[Swish]

Changes need to be GM led, otherwise taking a mish mash of our ideas will make the server all kinds of weird.

Suggestions are fine, and these weren't too terrible... but it comes down to a player's ideals versus "classic". If you want to go completely custom, expect a portion of players to ask for The Hidden Forest to do a PvP server and see how it compares :D

[runlvlzero]

Ya, I wouldn't be against them being set up in any particular city. Just don't think neriak would work though when these teams wouldn't be racial, and with neriak being essential for dark elf players of team1 and team2.

With the discord team starting in Qeynos or Freeport, all good/neutral human players could easily start in the other human city. Really one of these two cities are the only ones that wouldn't have a negative impact on the other two teams and require a ton of unclassic changes.

Yeah. I got you. Non racial teams fits much better in FP. I wasn't fully comprehending your idea.

Changes need to be GM led, otherwise taking a mish mash of our ideas will make the server all kinds of weird.

Suggestions are fine, and these weren't too terrible... but it comes down to a player's ideals versus "classic". If you want to go completely custom, expect a portion of players to ask for The Hidden Forest to do a PvP server and see how it compares :D

/puke lol @ Hidden forest pvp - Sirken would never let that happen =) And I think Nilbog either. Cant trust Rogean for shit ;p Would end up like starwars.

Zade would just make the server as ez on csr as possible )

[Dullah]

Changes need to be GM led, otherwise taking a mish mash of our ideas will make the server all kinds of weird.

Suggestions are fine, and these weren't too terrible... but it comes down to a player's ideals versus "classic". If you want to go completely custom, expect a portion of players to ask for The Hidden Forest to do a PvP server and see how it compares :D


Thats just it, this idea isn't "completely custom" at all. It simply merges the ideas of teams and ffa together and makes a very limited number of concessions to allow it.

Everything else about the game would be completely classic outside of the way player teams would work.

[Dullah]

Yeah. I got you. Non racial teams fits much better in FP. I wasn't fully comprehending your idea.


I just went ahead and changed good team and neutral team to team 1 and team 2 for clarification. Hypothetically team 1 and team 2 could be good or neutral or be based on any other rules, but its not required. I just figured adding some distinction would provide a little flavor.

[mtb tripper]

which actually means spice one

[runlvlzero]

I brought this up on one of the other 100 team threads as well, but here I go again. Everquest 2 was hard coded teams, Qeynos vs Freeport BUT you had the option to exile from your city. Exile's could be attacked by anyone from Qeynos, Freeport, or any other Exile as well, basically a FFA team for people who are not total bluebie faggots.

Yes! And after sitting and thinking about it I think Dullahs idea is pretty much spot on perfect.

Dullah +9000 dev points from me. This idea is the best way to implement a mix of hardcoded, softcoded teams. Sirken please comment on this idea. Yay or nay... we know you don't speak for the entire staff. But is anyone important reading these gems?

[Old_PVP]

Team 1 : Able to fight against both team 2 and team 3. Has the advantage of being protected from team members. Team would be a custom choice and not dictated by race, class or deity. Any race/class combination would be accepted into any team. Team 1 could possibly be given the "good" team designation for flavor.

Team 2: Team 2 works like team 1 for all intents and purposes. Team 2 could be given the "neutral" team designation. Custom starter cities could be given to reflect their team and to place them in a closer proximity to their members, but thats completely optional and unnecessary.

Team 3 (discord): This team's players not only fights team 1 (good?) and team 2 (neutral?), but can also fight each other. In exchange for the ability to attack anyone, being a discord player would come with heavy constraints.

Some ideas would be allowing team1/team2 to group, rez, port, or possibly cross heal one another, but still be able to attack each other. The discord team, on the other hand, get no help from anyone, no out-of-team group capabilities, no ability to give or receive healing outside of their team.

(Optional) In addition, the discord team could be allocated only 1 city where they could bank/train/vendor (think outlaw city in Darkfall), probably Qeynos or Freeport (has most class trainer except shaman - would need custom spell/trainer npcs to be added). The only non-classic faction adjustment would be bumping discord players who would normally be 'ready to attack' to dubious in the discord city (apprehensive to vendors/trainers/bankers). To prevent players from losing access to quests, discord players should have normal faction with other cities according to their race/class/deity, only unable to interact with vendors etc.

Designating a city or cities to any of the factions would be completely optional, but would make for a lot of fun city warfare and give team1 and team2 a common cause in defeating the evil discord team.

Essentially, the discord team would be the evil scourge of the earth, much like the PKs of rallos zek or the pks in Ultima Online. Regardless of the quarrels of the major alliances on RZ or UO, everyone killed the random PKs without mercy.

If peoples motives were in the right place, some variation of this system should appease everyone. This model provides two protected teams from which players could establish guilds and cultivate alliances. Then it allows a faction for players who prefer FFA and those who don't want to deal with the countless ways to grief players using teams. Its a win, win.










--
Other possible ideas (optional):

The discord team would be similar to that of the red (pk) player in Ultima Online, where being a criminal comes at a cost.

Discord players could suffer a greater penalty upon dying in PvP such as a debuff for X amount of time.

Players in the discord team could be subject to attacks by players in a larger range. Custom rules would have to come into play like those suggested by Rogean involving out of range healing. If you attack a discord player outside of normal range, you'll be subject to attacks from all discord players of that same range for a certain period of time.

Players from Team 1 or 2 can freely PK Discord players anywhere without faction hits (assuming faction hits will be a part of a teams server (they should be)).

Assuming faction works properly, a guard may assist a discord player in the discord city if he has the higher faction, but if you kill that player without provocation, you suffer no faction hit.

A discord player receives no faction hit for killing players of any team (including their own) in the discord city.

If you kill a discord player in any city, you suffer no faction hit regardless if you were the aggressor.

If a discord player kills a player as the aggressor in any city other than the discord city, they receive a faction hit.

Discord players cannot bind in any racial capital other than the discord city. Binding anywhere else including OT or FV should be fine.

More ideas to come.

Sounds good so far. The whole murderer dynamic has never really been replicated since Ultima Online, and it is a shame since it was so awesome. My only suggestion would be to give the Discord team (and only the Discord team) the ability to loot 1 droppable item with each killshot.

They should be portrayed as feared murderers/pks for a reason; and people are always afraid to lose gear.

With the risk of choosing the Discord team, also comes the rewards.

[Zuranthium]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=120312

This is all we need.

If a 3rd p1999 server were to exist, it should be an actual DISCORD server (first time you die = your character is automatically reset back to low level and you lose all equip/bank). That kind of server would reset every month. It would be a monthly competition of who can maintain the highest level on the server. Top 10 finishers would be published at the end of every month. The tie-breaker could be who killed the most people within an appropriate level range.

[runlvlzero]

Take note GM's very little flame warring going on here =) a very good consensus.

[Dullah]

I brought this up on one of the other 100 team threads as well, but here I go again. Everquest 2 was hard coded teams, Qeynos vs Freeport BUT you had the option to exile from your city. Exile's could be attacked by anyone from Qeynos, Freeport, or any other Exile as well, basically a FFA team for people who are not total bluebie faggots.

Thats actually almost exactly what this would be. I only played EQ 2 for a few weeks, so I didn't remember this. Its really a perfect scenario and the only teams option I'd have any interest in playing. Theres something for everyone in it, and the FFA or discord option would be hard enough that not everyone would be able to handle it. Of course, in this community the idea isn't taking off because people have ulterior motives in suggesting a teams server.

Think outside of the box people.

[Dullah]

Sounds good so far. The whole murderer dynamic has never really been replicated since Ultima Online, and it is a shame since it was so awesome. My only suggestion would be to give the Discord team (and only the Discord team) the ability to loot 1 droppable item with each killshot.

They should be portrayed as feared murderers/pks for a reason; and people are always afraid to lose gear.

With the risk of choosing the Discord team, also comes the rewards.

If the discord team could loot an item, you should also be able to loot an item off them should you kill them. I just don't think item loot fits into the bluer server being proposed which is being created largely to attract more non-pvp players.

[Azure]

If the discord team could loot and item, you should also be able to loot an item off them should you kill them.

Wowowow... perfect. <3

[runlvlzero]

If the discord team could loot an item, you should also be able to loot an item off them should you kill them. I just don't think item loot fits into the bluer server being proposed which is being created largely to attract more non-pvp players.

Two anti PK teams and one PK team. PK Team would be small. But would suit the FFA pvpers. I would probably roll a toon on PK team.

[Darksinga]

I love the idea of 3 teams with there being a discord team. It does appeal to both sides. The only thing I don't like is all players of the faction starting it one city. Like ogres starting in Qeynos may kill the immersion... If some one could come up with a probable solution for this i'd be cool with it. On a side note, I really love the murderer idea... I've stated before that I think the only item loot should be player ears (for bragging rights,) but it would be super cool if you loot a wanted players ear, turn it into a guard, and you get a cash reward. Would be more incentive for pvping to get cash rather than farming OOT seafuries. Overall, there wouldn't be much customization at all and the murderer idea doesn't even need to be implemented. Just could be a bonus new fun idea.

[Azure]

I love the idea of 3 teams with there being a discord team. It does appeal to both sides. The only thing I don't like is all players of the faction starting it one city. Like ogres starting in Qeynos may kill the immersion... If some one could come up with a probable solution for this i'd be cool with it. On a side note, I really love the murderer idea... I've stated before that I think the only item loot should be player ears (for bragging rights,) but it would be super cool if you loot a wanted players ear, turn it into a guard, and you get a cash reward. Would be more incentive for pvping to get cash rather than farming OOT seafuries. Overall, there wouldn't be much customization at all and the murderer idea doesn't even need to be implemented. Just could be a bonus new fun idea.

I like the idea of farming ears for cash rather than Seafuries.

[Old_PVP]

Would be cool if the Discord team was kill on sight in all major cities except the murderer city, kind of like Buccaneer`s Den in Ultima Online. There should be some safe havens for the dregs of society such as Qeynos Catacombs, Freeport sewers, East Freeport slums and other shady areas of the world. This would add another challenging element to gameplay and force murderers to use their head to really survive outside of the set path of the game. DISCORD would not be for the weak or weary.

[Rust1d?]

Here is what I do not get. The 3 teams were done before in Kings and Bandits. They had the teams system with custom stuff, then everybody quit. I do think the 3 team system works, but then you get the "It is not classic" crowd and everyone quits. It is just a flavor of the month syndrome. Will be fun for a few months, then people will go back to red 99.

[Doktoor]

everyone on team discord

[Darksinga]

Here is what I do not get. The 3 teams were done before in Kings and Bandits. They had the teams system with custom stuff, then everybody quit. I do think the 3 team system works, but then you get the "It is not classic" crowd and everyone quits. It is just a flavor of the month syndrome. Will be fun for a few months, then people will go back to red 99.

People didn't quit K&B due to the teams system. The faction system on that server was amazing and the pvp was some of the funniest I've had. What made people quit was that the server had custom zones, pvp loot NPCs, the Nexus, Translocators/Spires taking people around the world, etc. K&B was crazy fun for how easy it was to pvp, but that server was really far from classic. Custom servers are super fun until a month or two passes and you want to feel nostalgic. Which is why we have to be careful here not to make things too customized.
Now the reason their next server failed (Red69--turned into Legacy of Zek) was because 1: the competition of Red99, and 2: the xp was too fast (kind of funny because that's what most people complain about.) I love Image and Devnoob and wish they'd come to Project1999 but Image refused an offer from the P99 team because he firmly believes that you should share your code and the community should benefit from that. P99 is a closed source project.

I really like the idea of 3 teams we just need to find a fairly classic way to accomplish this. As I said in my previous post, we don't need to add things such as murderer tag and a few things, but these super small custom changes may enhance the game. Kind of why I think we should have shit like compasses.

[SamwiseRed]

Here is what I do not get. The 3 teams were done before in Kings and Bandits. They had the teams system with custom stuff, then everybody quit. I do think the 3 team system works, but then you get the "It is not classic" crowd and everyone quits. It is just a flavor of the month syndrome. Will be fun for a few months, then people will go back to red 99.

not sure what you mean man, some of us love teams. the day they merged the zek servers was one of the saddest things ive seen (not really but you get my drift.) i would play a less populated teams server over ffa anyday and i know there are others who feel the same way. more immersion and more fun imo.

[Dullah]

I love the idea of 3 teams with there being a discord team. It does appeal to both sides. The only thing I don't like is all players of the faction starting it one city. Like ogres starting in Qeynos may kill the immersion... If some one could come up with a probable solution for this i'd be cool with it. On a side note, I really love the murderer idea... I've stated before that I think the only item loot should be player ears (for bragging rights,) but it would be super cool if you loot a wanted players ear, turn it into a guard, and you get a cash reward. Would be more incentive for pvping to get cash rather than farming OOT seafuries. Overall, there wouldn't be much customization at all and the murderer idea doesn't even need to be implemented. Just could be a bonus new fun idea.

Hypothetically, you could keep it completely classic without starting everyone in one city. I just suggested the single city idea because I was coming up with ways to make it harder for the discord team.

I'm all for keeping things classic, but its possible for almost any race to get faction with any city so moving multiple races into one city shouldn't be that big of an issue. Lore wise, everything would be the same except now Freeport/Qeynos lives in fear of this new discord faction so they tolerate their presence. I wouldn't want the discord team to be kos to everyone because it could interfere with too many other things like quests, even epics.

It really just boils down to 3 teams, 2 normal, 1 ffa. No additives necessary. The people who want a team with people to help them have two options. People who want ffa have it as well, but with some disadvantages. Its really a win/win and anyone who doesn't support a ffa team on a teams server is either overly nostalgic or has ulterior motives.

[runlvlzero]

I like the idea of Ogres, Trolls, being both hated and chaotic enough to be a Discord only race.

So much lost potential because everyone just rolls ogre for min/max. Maybe make a very hard and limited (as in its repeatable once per 3 months) quest for someone to switch sides off of Discord. Would be something people would have to really earn for that unique "I'm a good guy bad guy Drizzit" status.

[Dullah]

Cant have only certain races on teams. Its always ended up being bad, and leaves them at a severe disadvantage. If the server is going to have any pve at all, teams must be a custom choice.

[runlvlzero]

Yeah, I was going to say let barb shamans pick between nuet and good, but I could see where everyone starts rolling discord just for minmax, but thats less likely to happen. Those are the only two races I would do it to. Since they are monstorous. It would surely mess up iksar to force them to a team.

[Dullah]

Id be all for race wars if you want to start talking a more custom character creation. Allow other races to select their "racial" ability so that other warriors can have frontal stun immunity and other races can have higher stats, then it might be plausible.

[runlvlzero]

Yeah no I'm 100% down for your idea without compromise. I was just thinking of making the default selection for Ogres/trolls the Discord team. Everyone else is free to pick any team.

I see where if all the ogres and trolls are on discord it would just encourage the rest of the players to "go to the discord team".

But I think you've outlined enough insentives for that not to be.

Barb warriors are pretty solid. Human and High elf Paladins can tank any end game content even if they dump stat STR. Can't speak for pvp balance. I'de say they are handicapped, but not enough that they will loose every single time vs a non-handicapped player. Depending on skill, or even skill.

[runlvlzero]

Bump, /amen