Is the raid scene really that bad?

[Naena]

So, I only just started a few weeks ago, but from what I hear TMO pretty much kills everything every time it's up. If you want your epics, you pay TMO for the pieces from the raid mobs that they kill.

Is that really how it is? If you aren't in TMO, is it really that rare to be able to kill any of the raid mobs or are people over exaggerating?

I don't have any problem with competition, I enjoyed raiding in EQ all the way up to Planes of Power and was part of top guilds on the server I played on. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I thought even then we set up rotations so it wasn't just one guild getting to do everything?

I'm enjoying my time playing again so far, but it seems like it would be pretty dull if at the end of it all it was just TMO farming all the raid mobs and nobody else getting to do much of anything.

[Swish]

Camped Ragefire for my cleric epic with some good pals for about 18-19 hours. TMO scouts logged in, and logged out again. Same for other guilds trying to do the same thing.

If you want it, and you have the assistance to get it done... then whoever else comes along (TMO or otherwise) can swing a cat. Ragefire isn't typical of it, as its down to whoever hands in the pearl first upon him spawning... but if you've got people there waiting, they know you're hungry for it and won't get in the way.

Or what I should say is... people get stuck in the rut of just paying for an epic piece because...

A) They falsely believe they can't do the encounter....you just need some help.
B) They don't have the time for Mob X to spawn.
C) Laziness.

C is a common one, and it makes TMO extremely rich :p

[Obrae]

Swish have some good point, for reference look at the roue Epic which is reaslly easy to do, most people just buy it anyway.

But its alot more fun blaming TMO.

For whoever was in a top guild on their server back then, its nothing original or specific to p99, it's been like this since 1999. Exept now we have vents and cell phones which help getting organized.

[fullmetalcoxman]

It's pretty terrible if you aren't a rogue, monk, shaman, or cleric. Enchanter isn't bad either.


For whoever was in a top guild on their server back then, its nothing original or specific to p99, it's been like this since 1999. Exept now we have vents and cell phones which help getting organized.

Keep telling yourself that.

[Tecmos Deception]

OP: there's lots of attention paid to TMO "monopolizing" some specific epic drops, because those drops come from raid mobs that also have other loot that TMO is interested in getting. Druid, ranger, wizard, shadowknight, necromancer, bard. Those epics have drops from venril sathir, trakanon, cazic thule, innorruuk. VS drops VERY rare and often VERY nice class kunark legs, trak drops the super awesome class kunark breasplates plus stuff like manna robe. CT and Inny are mostly just desired because of the epic pieces. Etc.

The rest of the epics are doable by pretty much anyone with a just a single group of friends.


I don't know what is so "bad" about the raid scene being as it is. Lots of people dislike it because it doesn't give them what they want. But ya know, basically no part of everquest just hands out what you want. Classic epics were difficult to obtain and very rare. It's "classic" that the epics listd above are difficult to obtain and rather rare. It's just the way/reason they are rare here that is different than live, so people focus on that rather than the fact that the end result (difficult to achieve and/or rare epics) is classic.

[fullmetalcoxman]

Raiding in P99= Camp a fully buffed raid force at whatever spawn you want to kill. Wait the 3 to 7(or more) days that it takes the mob to spawn. Track 24/7 so someone else doesn't get it. Log 40 people in and kill it. Then move to the next mob.

If that sounds like fun to you, grind to 60 and join TMO.

If that doesn't sound like fun to you, join whoever you want and accept that you might not see your epic for a long time.

[Tecmos Deception]

Raiding in P99= Camp a fully buffed raid force at whatever spawn you want to kill. Wait the 3 to 7(or more) days that it takes the mob to spawn. Track 24/7 so someone else doesn't get it. Log 40 people in and kill it. Then move to the next mob.

No. What you described is raiding Trakanon. None of the other raid mobs are basically anything like what you describe.

[Arteker]

every time ir ead this kind of post i remember how fucking rare in kunark to see most of the epics.

being in solusek ro server and just 4 wizard epics done , 2 paladins with epic, 1 ranger with dual epic, shamans (few shamans then)..................


i would realy love to people to be honest and show some kind of proof they had their epics in kunark.

[Frogie305]

So, I only just started a few weeks ago, but from what I hear TMO pretty much kills everything every time it's up. If you want your epics, you pay TMO for the pieces from the raid mobs that they kill.

Is that really how it is? If you aren't in TMO, is it really that rare to be able to kill any of the raid mobs or are people over exaggerating?

I don't have any problem with competition, I enjoyed raiding in EQ all the way up to Planes of Power and was part of top guilds on the server I played on. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I thought even then we set up rotations so it wasn't just one guild getting to do everything?

I'm enjoying my time playing again so far, but it seems like it would be pretty dull if at the end of it all it was just TMO farming all the raid mobs and nobody else getting to do much of anything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTqiiMxHMks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ1O60i_Y2k

Doing what we do best! Up and coming guilds have attempted to destroy what big daddy zeelot has created. I'm not telling you that other guilds have not managed to snag mobs here and there. I think FE got Trak like a month ago, and on repop days guilds like Taken, Divinity, BDA, have stepped up and have claimed raid mobs for them selfs. There are other guilds out there that raid Plane of fear, Plane of hate, Sky. But right now and the foresable future TMO is top dog....... Oo yah and IB , Winter is coming blah blah blah.

[Splorf22]

Well that's because on live Kunark was 8 months, not 3 years. there weren't any epics on P1999 even 1 year after Kunark came out, because epic quests weren't out.

[Tecmos Deception]

it seems like it would be pretty dull if at the end of it all it was just TMO farming all the raid mobs and nobody else getting to do much of anything.

I think that the mindset of this quote is the issue with most of the people who complain about the "raid scene" or "endgame" on p99.

How so, you ask? How many hours per week do you think TMO spends in direct preparation for or actually fighting raid mobs? Half a dozen dragons in VP, VS, trak, gore, sev, talendor, fay, CT, draco, inny, maestro, vox, naggy. That's only like 20 spawns per week. Even a person who does every single one of them probably only spends like 15 hours per week "raiding." But probably 14 of those hours are buffing, running to the right place, getting ported, hammering, recharging mallets/hats/nets/slowstone ambers, etc. Even when you don't zerg a mob down, it only takes a couple minutes to kill it.

Now split those mobs up over TMO, FE, BDA, Taken, Divinity, Europa. Each guild experiences a total of, let's call it 3, hours per week of "raiding" with only like 10 minutes of actual combat. Most people don't show up for everything. You end up with the average person getting to spend like 1 whole hour per week "raiding" ... just a few minutes per week actually spent fighting some legendary dragon/god/undead dude/whatever.

Why is everyone so fucking pissy about missing out on a few minutes per week of an admittedly fun activity? Because they don't think about this. They don't realize that if a rotation were put in place, they would actually see so little action. They think that a rotation (or even just TMO sharing stuff) is some miracle fix and that the game is going to be heaven-on-earth if only they could "raid" with their guild.

Bullshit.


People need to stop whining about stuff that they haven't put much thought into and realize that they are missing something (experiencing these fights, basically), but that that something isn't that much (a few minutes of combat per week, if "raiding" were actually split up amongst most/all of the interested and capable p99 guilds). Go have fun playing your 60 in a planes raid, or helping your guildies get epics, or being nice to lowbies who are trying to xp. Or level an alt. Or level another alt. Or sponsor a giveaway. Or do something challenging even if there isn't a point to it beyond a challenge sometimes being a hell of a lot of fun. Or join TMO if you really want to "raid" that badly. Or make your own guild and topple TMO. Or get the hell out of here!



Yeah. I'm deeply immersed. No shit :p

[MaksimMazor]

Just app TMO it'll be alright

[YendorLootmonkey]

App TMO, get what you need, then join a guild you actually like.

[Tikku82]

Hope they make that team pvp server. Fixes the raids issue. Atleast partially.

I already forgot that u can bring any number of people to raids...that's meh..4 grps should be more fun than just jerking some mob with 40+ people for easy kill.

But its been so long I played on pve server I really cant remember how it was..

[Thulack]

Hope they make that team pvp server. Fixes the raids issue. Atleast partially.

I already forgot that u can bring any number of people to raids...that's meh..4 grps should be more fun than just jerking some mob with 40+ people for easy kill.

But its been so long I played on pve server I really cant remember how it was..

They won't

[Tasslehofp99]

It's quite funny to see the sarcastic responses from TMO members.


Here is their current stock of raid loot for sale: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=119673


Oh, and yeah...epics were pretty hard to acquire and rare in kunark era, but Kunark didn't last 2 years on live. There is no justification for the greedy shit that goes down on this server.

[Tikku82]

They won't

Why not? Seems a no brainer. FFA pvp is dead. Team based server would be very popular.

[quido]

Quit ranting in Server Chat, Tasslehof.

[Glasken]

Tec, I agree with most of your post. A lot of people who complain about the raid (or rare drops in general) don't put a lot of effort into achieving their objective. However this comment:


Why is everyone so fucking pissy about missing out on a few minutes per week of an admittedly fun activity? Because they don't think about this. They don't realize that if a rotation were put in place, they would actually see so little action. They think that a rotation (or even just TMO sharing stuff) is some miracle fix and that the game is going to be heaven-on-earth if only they could "raid" with their guild.


causes me to remember the days of pickup dragon raids, or pickup god raids from back on Brell. I miss these, but not to the point of calling for the fuzz to put rules or hard code into place.


Put on your big boy pants, wear a belt.

[Tikku82]

They should make raids 24 players only. Yes its not classic but its how it was in for example eq2 and loved it. Much more balancing with grps and tactics. Overkills aren't fun.

[khandman]

Server wipe, complaining solved?

[TAllen82]

I didnt read even half the posts on this forum, so forgive me if its been said already. But here's my two cents, for what it's worth....think at todays rates ,probably slightly under two cents, but whatever. The raid scene here isn't "that" bad. This is a conversation that comes up far too often. EVERYONE on the server knows where the raid guilds are, who they are, and how to get in them. Those guilds worked hard to grow, gain the ability to do what they do (Even if it is "monopolozing (SP? Who cares....anyway) raid mobs and be the best on the server. EVERYONE on the server has the ability to app to those guilds and earn their place. You either want to hard core raid or you don't. If you're casual be casual and deal with the situation that puts you in. Most guilds that I know of will provide you a chance to tag along should you need a Plane/Dragon/Raid drop....sure, if someone in their guild needs it over you...you're just along for the ride, but that's only fair, as it's THEIR raid. So many people want to hate on the big 3 or 4 guilds because they have what others don't. The force time and commitment to achieve their goals. Either put in the effort to become one of the elite raiders, or STFU. Again this is just my two cents, and by the end of this rather lengthy rant, it's value has probably decreased even further. I can live with that.

[captnamazing]

IMO Raiding is a very small slice of the game. I think the journey to get to raiding is more rewarding than poopsocking to get some item on your level 60 character. If you want to raid, you can join TMO for hardcore stuff or another guild for more casual raiding. Sure, maybe it's silly that the kids/neckbeards in TMO can dedicate their lives to batphoning etc., but that's not enviable to me. Let those who crave it have their pps and the rest of us can have fun.

[goshozal]

Despite what those who complain on the forums will tell you, the raid scene on p99 is not that bad. Coming from EQ Live Tribunal, it's hardly different from live. YMMV.

The proof is in the pudding: the server pop is fine and, due to server age, many players have at least one level 60. They don't get to 60 and quit because mean ol' TMO takes the fun out of their lives.

And I can already hear the response: well you're in TMO, your opinion is biased.

Of course it is. But let me lay out a few facts for you:

I rolled on this server in July or August of 2012, and I didn't know a single soul. I had tons of time to play and by December I had a 60 enchanter in a smaller guild <Asgard> that raided the planes regularly.

I obtained my entire set of planar gear and my epic with the help of friends in that guild, along with a few nice non-guildies that I met along the way. While the enc epic does not have pieces that drop from highly contested mobs, it's still 16 pieces of non-MQable loot, which means it's a pain in the ass. The quest's bottleneck, Verina Tomb, at the time WAS a hotly contested mob that was camped by many guilds - including TMO (Allezia? or similar). I still got mine, because I put in the time and effort to get a few people who I knew I could call/text when she popped. I even saw her pop once and lost the race to engage, but kept trying.

My old guild collapsed around January 2013. I had grouped with some people in TMO but didn't really know anyone. I knew <Asgard> was done raiding anything, so I left my old guild and apped. I did what I was supposed to do, got the gear I was supposed to get and the keys I needed. I showed up to raids, followed directions, asked questions if I wasn't sure of what to do, and made the effort to make friends. I got full membership.

Shortly after full membership, my RL changed significantly because I got the opportunity for a really nice new job. It has eaten my time and my raid attendance has dropped dramatically. I have not spent time tracking spawns, which is a big part of earning loot in TMO. As a result, I have acquired no high-end loot in my time with the guild. I've gotten a couple sky pieces and the enchanter-only staff from VP (that otherwise would have rotted). And I'm okay with that. I haven't even ASKED for major loot. Because I know I shouldn't be first in line for the Robe of Azure Sky.

So not only did I get most of what I consider my "good loot" on Maksim while NOT in TMO, I am not exactly swimming in loot since joining.

Which leads to the point I was trying to make: the raiding game on p99 will reward what you do as a player more so than it will reward what guild you're in. Again, YMMV.

[ArumTP]

Rotations will never happen.

Epics. Rogue, Cleric (fairly manageable), Shaman, Enchanter (fairly manageable), monk epics are they only epics you should really expect to see. They don't require raid mobs for their drops.

Raid scene for YOU, expect planar raids but no boss raids. If you are lucky you *might* be online with enough people for a server re-pop and kill something low on TMO's kill list. Server re-pops however is so rare, don't count on it.

[Ajkuhuun]

Since he's sleeping for his shift tonight, I'd like to thank you guys for your constructive responses. Naena and I have been grouping with quite a few folks whose mains are in some of the main raiding guilds here, and inevitably the conversation has turned to TMO and said members basically saying that even though they have the force and the know how it's pretty much impossible to really get down and raid a lot of the high end content because TMO has it on lockdown. This isn't just two or three folks, we've been here about three weeks and if we're in a group with an alt, more often than not at some point when we talk about being new here, they'll get on the "If you're not in TMO pretty much consider yourself out of most of the high end raid content," rant.

Now for Naena, I know it's high on his list, he's always been a high end raider. For those of you from Tribunal he raided pretty hard with Elitists, then EV and lastly AN, so I can see his concern for wanting to know if it really is as dire as these folks have made it sound. I know he'd certainly like to raid again, even if it's stuff he's already experienced.

Me on the other hand, I didn't get into the real raid scene until later, and so raiding this content while it's viable sounds pretty awesome to me. I really appreciate the constructive responses, I had one group the other night where an alt of another raid guild made it all sound pretty bleak, but it's nice to know that it's the same as on live for the most part. Effort in = Reward out, and we wouldn't have it any other way.

I'm very much looking forward to attacking the Kunark era fresh, not as a noob who had never played an MMO before. It may be old hat for Naena, but for me, raiding these mobs when they actually were important sounds awesome.

[contemptor]

No. What you described is raiding Trakanon. None of the other raid mobs are basically anything like what you describe.
Faydedar, Sev, VS (though just less than 40 people)

[-Catherin-]

Dragon capable guilds just need to focus on 1-2 targets at a time. Trying to focus on the entire picture won't get you anywhere. But I assure you if you focus on 1-2 at a time you will start taking down targets. If you want to go further than that, the like-minded guilds either need to start merging or at least come to some sort of an agreement to work together

[Tecmos Deception]

Raiding in P99= Camp a fully buffed raid force at whatever spawn you want to kill. Wait the 3 to 7(or more) days that it takes the mob to spawn. Track 24/7 so someone else doesn't get it. Log 40 people in and kill it. Then move to the next mob.

No. What you described is raiding Trakanon. None of the other raid mobs are basically anything like what you describe.

Faydedar, Sev, VS (though just less than 40 people)

I'm not TMO, but I have been getting their batphones for a couple months now. Guess what I've never seen on the batphone? "GET YOUR MAINS TO EJ/TD OMG SO WE CAN SOCK FAY/SEV!!!" There have been maybe 2-3 times when FE had a group sitting on VS spawn and TMO wanted to sock or at least have mains logged out in KC, but like I said, camping out at a raid mob with buffs is a trakanon thing.

People track, yes, but I bet track coverage is only like 50% for stuff like naggy, vox, maestro, tal, etc; far from 24/7 on every mob that is in window for all of every window. People log on 40 for trak or VS or good VP dragons, but not for the others I bet. People only log out a raid force for instant respond at maybe 1.5 of the nearly 20 raid targets.

Like I said. That description of "raiding" on p99 was only remotely accurate for 1 of the 18ish raid targets on the server.

[JayN]

all these wow crybabies need their welfare epics from standing around afk in AV

Just an FYI TMO used to do a rotation; until some shit bags decided to break the deal, now they face the wheel!

[Galelor]

The raid scene here is horrible. It's the worst I've seen on any emu. If you want to raid, find a different server.

[Naena]

I'm not trying to say I'm not willing to put in any effort to get raid mobs, but from the complaining I had heard it sounded like TMO had mains/alts logged out all over the place and within minutes of something spawning they'd send out a text message and log in the characters sitting at the mob and kill it. It's good to see that this apparently isn't the case.

[Kiwaukee]

The reason TMO will win every race in this current server setting is because their leadership uses "tracking" as currency, along with their DKP system. You almost have to put in time tracking if you want stuff.

This serves two purposes. First, it filters out applicants who either aren't dedicated or don't have the time to devote to constantly being available. Second, it means they almost always have someone at each spawn they're interested in killing. Combine these two, and you have a guild that has bunches of people who are always available and they almost always know exactly when things spawn.

Until another guild is willing or able to get on that level, it'll be really difficult for anyone outside of TMO to see epics that require raid bosses without paying for them until the revamp patches go live some time after Velious.

Even then, I expect greedy motherfuckers to camp epic stuff to sell MQs just like people do with the rogue and cleric epics now.

[Arteker]

yet its tmo fault we been stuck in kunark for 3 years?.

when kunark started tmo wasnt even in top raiders guild.

the main factor of why TMO overcome and endure while other guilds have fallen is simple.

flexibility.

Tmo never stoped recruiting, something happened to IB and in the long run hurted them alot.

tmo always had new players coming and going. there have been player raided for 6 months got some items and gone.

TMO loot council has been a very very well done job in part of tmo . not just rewarding people who shit track alot but aswell people who put a effort in the guild .

we like the term, we collect players no characters. and we give always a fair application to anyone in the server .

TMO is not invincible we have lost mobs we have suffer bad luck and we have made some screw jobs.

but in general we do a good job. the main adventage of tmo over other guilds is lpure and simple : longevity.

3 years of be cursed kunark have allowed us to have in general multiple well geared characters wich allow us to move faster.

as the stinky war iksar say we dont popsock in the terms other guilds do something i understand is her way to figth us.

yet we indeed have several people camped in places in advance of events such as trak not always this is fullfilled not always people bring their a game toon to it .

[Splorf22]

THIS! EXACTLY THIS! I am so sick of all the fucking casuals crying all the time that TMO is the devil for having determination and organization.

I feel a lot of people incorrectly attribute this position to me. I don't hate TMO for having a bunch of people that are willing to spend 25 hours a week raiding/tracking. I hate the retarded variance system makes this necessary.

[Arteker]

I feel a lot of people incorrectly attribute this position to me. I don't hate TMO for having a bunch of people that are willing to spend 25 hours a week raiding/tracking. I hate the retarded variance system makes this necessary.

i guess they put it in game due to old experiences with euro guilds.

[Tecmos Deception]

A-Team confirmed casual.

:rolleyes:

[Medowin]

Seeing this kind of crap makes me sad.


Maybe I should go back to World of Warcraft where LEET GUILDZ at least didn't get in the way of other people's ability to play.

[ArumTP]

I feel a lot of people incorrectly attribute this position to me. I don't hate TMO for having a bunch of people that are willing to spend 25 hours a week raiding/tracking. I hate the retarded variance system makes this necessary.

^ Pretty much this. Those random server resets make it feel like live. You just couldn't get everything when everyone knew everything was going to spawn all at once. There was a need to prioritize. Stuff would slip though the cracks smaller guilds could get stuff.

[Zhaige]

Can anyone explain to me why rotations haven't been setup? If it is on a variance timer, give the guild two hours before it becomes free for all.

[Arteker]

Can anyone explain to me why rotations haven't been setup? If it is on a variance timer, give the guild two hours before it becomes free for all.

rotations are not classic mechanics but players made options based in respect.

[Yinikren]

The problem is that most of the raiders on this server sleep on top of their cell phones and will call out of work for the prospect of a raid mob. This makes a rotation hard to enforce when people will sell off their firstborn for a chance to either jump the line, wipe/train the raid so they can attempt, etc. Would be impossible to police it.

[Zhaige]

rotations are not classic mechanics but players made options based in respect.

So the players here have no respect for one another? I remember in classic, guild leaders would get together and hash out a rotation that enabled all the raiding guilds to have a shot at the content. A true work of the community. There is no guild better to start this initiative than TMO.

Right now, it kind of reminds me of a poorly managed monopoly. Rather than using their monopoly to an advantage to grow an industry (p1999), they strangle it so that only they benefit from it.

Look at the NFL and the salary cap/revenue sharing and compare it to baseball and no salary cap/revenue sharing. The salary regulation in the NFL allows all 32 teams to be competitive with each other, which keeps fans interested in the NFL as a whole rather than the three or four major market teams that would typically have the largest salaries. As a result, more fans, more profits.

Then look at baseball, a dying sport with interest on an extreme downtrend. It isn't as bad as it used to be, but the same three to four teams would be on top because they had the largest salaries and could basically buy championships. People don't have interest in the smaller market teams because they just continuously lose. This means less fans, less profit.

Project1999 is kind of in a similar boat. It *could* be much more popular and fun if it's raid scene was better balanced. More players would invest time into the game because they knew they had a legitimate chance of raiding the higher tier zones without having to dedicate their lives to being on a bat phone. Sure, to get certain raid mobs you would still have to wake up early in the morning if its your rotation and your spawn, but at least the guilds that don't typically have 24/7 availability still have a chance. And if they don't down the mob in the alloted time, it becomes available to whoever.

This isn't a mechanic that should be created by the GMs or Devs, but should be managed by the players and guild leaders. It benefits everyone, even the head honcho TMO. This would attract more players, elevate more guilds, and allow TMO to show off their lewt to more noobs, since isn't that what EQ is all about? ;)

[timhutton]

I'm not trying to say I'm not willing to put in any effort to get raid mobs, but from the complaining I had heard it sounded like TMO had mains/alts logged out all over the place and within minutes of something spawning they'd send out a text message and log in the characters sitting at the mob and kill it. It's good to see that this apparently isn't the case.

Hahahahaha...

[timhutton]

That would never happen. Not on this server.

No way. Raiding is a skill based/mobilization game. It has nothing to do with camping out on priority targets, tracking them 24/7 and responding to a batphone at a moments notice.

Not this server. Not classic EverQuest. Some other game maybe.

[Zhaige]

That would never happen. Not on this server.

No way. Raiding is a skill based/mobilization game. It has nothing to do with camping out on priority targets, tracking them 24/7 and responding to a batphone at a moments notice.

Not this server. Not classic EverQuest. Some other game maybe.

There were more than one server in classic Everquest, and there were servers that set up rotations. Classic EQ wasn't as meta then as it is now apparently. But it happened, and it can be done. It just needs coordination between guild leaders and a little outwards thinking. Maybe if there weren't constant posts like yours that reinforced negative community interaction, there might be something done about the raid scene that would be benefitial for all :).

Also, the raid scene you speak of is far from skill based. Extremely far.

[timhutton]

I may have been being sarcastic.

Maybe not.

Who really knows? BRB buying my Wizard epic for only 500k.

[Halfelfbard]

102 days played on Halfelf. I've had sex during a trak raid, ur damn lucky we even sell them epic pieces!!

[mishurza]

Despite what those who complain on the forums will tell you, the raid scene on p99 is not that bad. Coming from EQ Live Tribunal, it's hardly different from live. YMMV.

The proof is in the pudding: the server pop is fine and, due to server age, many players have at least one level 60. They don't get to 60 and quit because mean ol' TMO takes the fun out of their lives.

And I can already hear the response: well you're in TMO, your opinion is biased.

Of course it is. But let me lay out a few facts for you:

I rolled on this server in July or August of 2012, and I didn't know a single soul. I had tons of time to play and by December I had a 60 enchanter in a smaller guild <Asgard> that raided the planes regularly.

I obtained my entire set of planar gear and my epic with the help of friends in that guild, along with a few nice non-guildies that I met along the way. While the enc epic does not have pieces that drop from highly contested mobs, it's still 16 pieces of non-MQable loot, which means it's a pain in the ass. The quest's bottleneck, Verina Tomb, at the time WAS a hotly contested mob that was camped by many guilds - including TMO (Allezia? or similar). I still got mine, because I put in the time and effort to get a few people who I knew I could call/text when she popped. I even saw her pop once and lost the race to engage, but kept trying.

My old guild collapsed around January 2013. I had grouped with some people in TMO but didn't really know anyone. I knew <Asgard> was done raiding anything, so I left my old guild and apped. I did what I was supposed to do, got the gear I was supposed to get and the keys I needed. I showed up to raids, followed directions, asked questions if I wasn't sure of what to do, and made the effort to make friends. I got full membership.

Shortly after full membership, my RL changed significantly because I got the opportunity for a really nice new job. It has eaten my time and my raid attendance has dropped dramatically. I have not spent time tracking spawns, which is a big part of earning loot in TMO. As a result, I have acquired no high-end loot in my time with the guild. I've gotten a couple sky pieces and the enchanter-only staff from VP (that otherwise would have rotted). And I'm okay with that. I haven't even ASKED for major loot. Because I know I shouldn't be first in line for the Robe of Azure Sky.

So not only did I get most of what I consider my "good loot" on Maksim while NOT in TMO, I am not exactly swimming in loot since joining.

Which leads to the point I was trying to make: the raiding game on p99 will reward what you do as a player more so than it will reward what guild you're in. Again, YMMV.

My experience on the server is very similar to Maksim's. I started back in late June. Got my planar gear and epic with Full Circle. Joined TMO right around the same time as Maksim but manage to keep roughly a 60% attendance. probably only takes 10-15 hours of online time to maintain that but you do have to be near your computer. Mobs come at all times of the day, so if you want that 60% you will probably have to sacrifice sleep at some point. My dedication has earned me a shiny pile of treasure including 2 PD loots, but I'm probably still months away from seeing a Robe of Azure Sky and that is perfectly fair. TMO has great organization. Mob window calendar, attendance/loot spreadsheet. 10 pages of stickies for new members. Well defined systems to govern loot/internal disputes. People willing to track.

But...... A lot of that is maintained by a dedicated few. Which brings me to my reason for posting.

This a story about my friends Vianna, Ramblin, Laylu, and Merkk when we were all members of Full Circle.

We knew we had the strength to kill Inny and VS. Niether is a terribly hard mob. VS ended up being some crazy FTE crapshoot which we happened to win and Inny popped for us while we were hanging out in hate after a clear in hopes that he would. We put forth some effort got a little lucky and got a couple kills and Laylu's epic. This was with about 2 weeks worth of trying. We were too small to compete on a bunch of targets but that is what it is like when you attempt to go up against an entrenched superior force. Pick your battle and win it. IB did it recently with some Vox and Naggy kills and FE got VS this week with an impressive camp-out.

Also could check out the emerald dream server, old school vanilla WoW, where you don't compete for raid targets. If that sounds appealing.

[Bazia]

as the posters before me have mentioned just join TMO and you will find there is no issue with the raiding on p99

[Arteker]

So the players here have no respect for one another? I remember in classic, guild leaders would get together and hash out a rotation that enabled all the raiding guilds to have a shot at the content. A true work of the community. There is no guild better to start this initiative than TMO.

Right now, it kind of reminds me of a poorly managed monopoly. Rather than using their monopoly to an advantage to grow an industry (p1999), they strangle it so that only they benefit from it.

Look at the NFL and the salary cap/revenue sharing and compare it to baseball and no salary cap/revenue sharing. The salary regulation in the NFL allows all 32 teams to be competitive with each other, which keeps fans interested in the NFL as a whole rather than the three or four major market teams that would typically have the largest salaries. As a result, more fans, more profits.

Then look at baseball, a dying sport with interest on an extreme downtrend. It isn't as bad as it used to be, but the same three to four teams would be on top because they had the largest salaries and could basically buy championships. People don't have interest in the smaller market teams because they just continuously lose. This means less fans, less profit.

Project1999 is kind of in a similar boat. It *could* be much more popular and fun if it's raid scene was better balanced. More players would invest time into the game because they knew they had a legitimate chance of raiding the higher tier zones without having to dedicate their lives to being on a bat phone. Sure, to get certain raid mobs you would still have to wake up early in the morning if its your rotation and your spawn, but at least the guilds that don't typically have 24/7 availability still have a chance. And if they don't down the mob in the alloted time, it becomes available to whoever.

This isn't a mechanic that should be created by the GMs or Devs, but should be managed by the players and guild leaders. It benefits everyone, even the head honcho TMO. This would attract more players, elevate more guilds, and allow TMO to show off their lewt to more noobs, since isn't that what EQ is all about? ;)


I dont know wich servers u where in, but only server wich actualy had a enforced GM rotation was stormhammer. and the system end killing the own server when few of the most importan guilds begin to be blocked .

its a irony u know the use of rotations and the abuse of them to block other guilds was pretty common .

[Zhaige]

as the posters before me have mentioned just join TMO and you will find there is no issue with the raiding on p99

Why would I want to join TMO? I would prefer to raid with my own guild, people I enjoy spending time with, grouping, talking on vent, etc. In classic, I could raid with the guild I started with, because they were in rotation, I didn't have to join the "top guild" to see VP :).

I dont know wich servers u where in, but only server wich actualy had a enforced GM rotation was stormhammer. and the system end killing the own server when few of the most importan guilds begin to be blocked .

its a irony u know the use of rotations and the abuse of them to block other guilds was pretty common .

Would you rather 7 guilds get in rotation and 1 or 2 get blocked?

Or 1 guild monopoly and 8 get blocked?

Just curious.

[Autotune]

Why would I want to join TMO? I would prefer to raid with my own guild, people I enjoy spending time with, grouping, talking on vent, etc.



Would you rather 7 guilds get in rotation and 1 or 2 get blocked?

Or 1 guild monopoly and 8 get blocked?

Just curious.

Why should TMO rotate with other guilds?

[zel]

The only part that is bad about the raiding scene is guilds being able to train other guilds in VP with no consequences on a blue server.

[Zhaige]

Why should TMO rotate with other guilds?

Read my analogy a couple posts up.

[Arteker]

Why would I want to join TMO? I would prefer to raid with my own guild, people I enjoy spending time with, grouping, talking on vent, etc. In classic, I could raid with the guild I started with, because they were in rotation, I didn't have to join the "top guild" to see VP :).



Would you rather 7 guilds get in rotation and 1 or 2 get blocked?

Or 1 guild monopoly and 8 get blocked?

Just curious.

first quote is from bazia not from me, u should do ur work better.

i would rather make guilds figth and put a effort for what they want. i never asked for handjobs wich is like everyone turn this kind of post.

rotations worked in first place because 2 things.

1: everyone was a newbie and no dominating guild.
2: higher guilds would phase out mobs from older expansions in the quest to advance in the new expansion.


If a guild figth and dominate its fault of others, grow bigger or go home isnt that the motto?.

in this server the list of raidin guilds have changed alot.tmo still number 1 but nothing stop other guilds figthing for mobs.

just take time and effort of that people to try it. if u dont have time courage or willpower to accept it go play wow or other ftp.

this is everquest for god sake there was always a top dog who had the monopoly of raidin. the main trouble who hurt this server sadly is the alck of a new fresh expansion.

3 long years of kunark with the promise of velious. nothing yet.

[Zhaige]

first quote is from bazia not from me, u should do ur work better.

i would rather make guilds figth and put a effort for what they want. i never asked for handjobs wich is like everyone turn this kind of post.

rotations worked in first place because 2 things.

1: everyone was a newbie and no dominating guild.
2: higher guilds would phase out mobs from older expansions in the quest to advance in the new expansion.


If a guild figth and dominate its fault of others, grow bigger or go home isnt that the motto?.

in this server the list of raidin guilds have changed alot.tmo still number 1 but nothing stop other guilds figthing for mobs.

just take time and effort of that people to try it. if u dont have time courage or willpower to accept it go play wow or other ftp.

this is everquest for god sake there was always a top dog who had the monopoly of raidin. the main trouble who hurt this server sadly is the alck of a new fresh expansion.

3 long years of kunark with the promise of velious. nothing yet.

You drunk?

Anyway, so you are perfectly fine sleeping where you shit? There hasn't been an expansion in a long time, might not be another one, so do something about it. Fix the issue. Stop this "EQ was about top dog" bullshit because no, it wasn't. In your metagamer fantasy it may have been, but guilds worked together in classic EQ. Put your epeen aside and stop relying on the devs to fix the issues. Guild leaders should man-up, work out your differences with each other, and make a better gaming environment for the sake of the project1999 community. Stop deteriorating the server with your epeen topdog bullshit mentality.

Ironically, the same bullshit politics that is played on this server infests real world politics as well. Guess it is just the natural progression of human behaviour.

[Arteker]

You drunk?

Anyway, so you are perfectly fine sleeping where you shit? There hasn't been an expansion in a long time, might not be another one, so do something about it. Fix the issue. Stop this "EQ was about top dog" bullshit because no, it wasn't. In your metagamer fantasy it may have been, but guilds worked together in classic EQ. Put your epeen aside and stop relying on the devs to fix the issues. Guild leaders should man-up, work out your differences with each other, and make a better gaming environment for the sake of the project1999 community. Stop deteriorating the server with your epeen topdog bullshit mentality.

Ironically, the same bullshit politics that is played on this server infests real world politics as well. Guess it is just the natural progression of human behaviour.

Guess u cannot elaborate a argument to counter what im saying.

you are the one in a fantasy world , everquest since the launch of kunark developed a reality wich was a split of players kind types.

raiders and non raiders.

u are the one who tray to deny than every server history was full of feuds of guilds contestin and racing for mobs. if you wanna keep dreaming go ahead.

but it will never happen.
u speak alot of community but in general the most solid community in any everquest server was the core of the so called raiders.
the ones who buyed expansions and actualy raid .
to avoid the drama soe added events suchs trials and instanced but man.
this is everquest classic , not pop and beyond where every guild could do his own raids .

[Autotune]

Showing off loot to more noobs who have the same loot?

That's not a good reason to basically take what they have and slow down the intake by several weeks.

[Lorraine]

I'm not trying to say I'm not willing to put in any effort to get raid mobs, but from the complaining I had heard it sounded like TMO had mains/alts logged out all over the place and within minutes of something spawning they'd send out a text message and log in the characters sitting at the mob and kill it. It's good to see that this apparently isn't the case.


Don't mean to rain on your parade, but actually this WAS, IS, AND WILL BE the case.

[Autotune]

Don't mean to rain on your parade, but actually this WAS, IS, AND WILL BE the case.

TMO as a whole doesn't do this.

The older TMO crew does do this though. They have multiple accounts they have acquired and park characters around that need gear from specific encounters and it saves them from having to run to raid mobs with a main that no longer needs to attend that raid.

Some also have geared alts that need nothing and they use those for the same reason, to keep from having to move their main at a moments notice.

It's a byproduct of the variance system and an entire raiding guild (and a half) quitting the server and selling their characters for low platinum prices (to RMT).

[contemptor]

I'm not TMO, but I have been getting their batphones for a couple months now. Guess what I've never seen on the batphone? "GET YOUR MAINS TO EJ/TD OMG SO WE CAN SOCK FAY/SEV!!!" There have been maybe 2-3 times when FE had a group sitting on VS spawn and TMO wanted to sock or at least have mains logged out in KC, but like I said, camping out at a raid mob with buffs is a trakanon thing.

People track, yes, but I bet track coverage is only like 50% for stuff like naggy, vox, maestro, tal, etc; far from 24/7 on every mob that is in window for all of every window. People log on 40 for trak or VS or good VP dragons, but not for the others I bet. People only log out a raid force for instant respond at maybe 1.5 of the nearly 20 raid targets.

Like I said. That description of "raiding" on p99 was only remotely accurate for 1 of the 18ish raid targets on the server.
50% is 48 hours of a 96 hour (pre-extension) window btw. That's significant, even if you understated at 50%. You don't actually raid these mobs; it's a different feeling when you decide how much you are going to pay TMO for their rots when you respond to their batphone rather than competing for a mob btw. That being said, it's to each their own. I have no problem with the way you play the game. You just have a different perspective.

[Tycko]

Varience is the bad guy.

[Tasslehofp99]

The only part that is bad about the raiding scene is guilds being able to train other guilds in VP with no consequences on a blue server.

Agreed, but its not just VP.
Trainimg is more or less unenforced in many cases regardless of where it happens during a raid.


I don't think ive ever seen/heard of a member of TMO being suspended for training FE, but it sure has happened. Don't get me wrong FE has trained TMO as well, but we were asked to sit out on the next spawn of whatever mob we trained them at (whether intentional or not don't really matter.)


The issue is mainly there are no rules, or if there are rules they are rarely enforced appropriately.
Either allow training in all zones (super lame imo) or enforce it everywhere.

Training was never allowed by gms on live, btw...incase anyone tries to argue that it was, there are plenty of posts providing evidence in this thread:http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=117238&page=89

[Ajkuhuun]

This thread sort of took a bad turn, when Naena posted his question, it was because the impression we'd been getting from folks was that if you were interested in high end content pretty much don't bother, there just isn't room at the top so to speak. But you know how boards are and gossip, you never really know until you're up there what the real score is and because we just don't have the playtime we used to, we wanted to know if leveling up was a waste of time if we were interested in anything past basic grouping, maybe Sky once we hit the high end. The people we'd been grouping with inferred that basically the folks still going had so much invested in the server that even though raid content for them was non existent it was still worth logging in.

Racing is part of EQ, it always has been, there's absolutely no expectation on our part of WoW style raid content availability. Naena knows firsthand from his experience on live, and even though I started raiding later racing was always part of it. Sometimes guilds worked out rotations, sometimes they didn't, sometimes folks trained eachother to get to a raid mob, it's just the way EQ works.

I think what would have been a better way to phrase the inquiry, would have been to ask if anyone actively races TMO to mobs, or if folks just don't bother. That's really more to the point.

[Arteker]

Agreed, but its not just VP.
Trainimg is more or less unenforced in many cases regardless of where it happens during a raid.


I don't think ive ever seen/heard of a member of TMO being suspended for training FE, but it sure has happened. Don't get me wrong FE has trained TMO as well, but we were asked to sit out on the next spawn of whatever mob we trained them at (whether intentional or not don't really matter.)


The issue is mainly there are no rules, or if there are rules they are rarely enforced appropriately.
Either allow training in all zones (super lame imo) or enforce it everywhere.

Training was never allowed by gms on live, btw...incase anyone tries to argue that it was, there are plenty of posts providing evidence in this thread:http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=117238&page=89

outside vp we only have a case where a tmo member was suspended due to intentionall train.

on the other hand our little mania to run fraps have give us many many nice fraps of FE member train wrecking tmo . last one i can remember certain warrior owned by a low lvl necro with a tittle.

anyways talking to you is a waste of time.

[Autotune]

This thread sort of took a bad turn, when Naena posted his question, it was because the impression we'd been getting from folks was that if you were interested in high end content pretty much don't bother, there just isn't room at the top so to speak. But you know how boards are and gossip, you never really know until you're up there what the real score is and because we just don't have the playtime we used to, we wanted to know if leveling up was a waste of time if we were interested in anything past basic grouping, maybe Sky once we hit the high end. The people we'd been grouping with inferred that basically the folks still going had so much invested in the server that even though raid content for them was non existent it was still worth logging in.

Racing is part of EQ, it always has been, there's absolutely no expectation on our part of WoW style raid content availability. Naena knows firsthand from his experience on live, and even though I started raiding later racing was always part of it. Sometimes guilds worked out rotations, sometimes they didn't, sometimes folks trained eachother to get to a raid mob, it's just the way EQ works.

I think what would have been a better way to phrase the inquiry, would have been to ask if anyone actively races TMO to mobs, or if folks just don't bother. That's really more to the point.

No one really races TMO for mobs. The server has almost always had 2+ top end guilds with one being obviously better than the other most of the time. When TMO finally knocked out IB (the long time #1) most of the hardcore guys from that guild left. This left the raid scene with only 1 hardcore raiding guild and several casual guilds. Few hardcore guys joined casual guilds and tried and ultimately failed. Now people cry because they can't beat TMO and be #1 or really even be a competitor.

There is more than enough room to be #2 on p99. However, if your plan involves knocking out TMO or trying to challenge them, you're going to fail. There aren't enough people on p99 anymore that are willing to play with the system that is in place.

If I were to ever come back, I would make a raiding guild and then just completely ignore TMO as raiding competition. Raid what you can and have fun, if they want to taunt just ignore them. The main problems other guilds have had is talking a ton of shit and not being able to back it up.

[Arteker]

This thread sort of took a bad turn, when Naena posted his question, it was because the impression we'd been getting from folks was that if you were interested in high end content pretty much don't bother, there just isn't room at the top so to speak. But you know how boards are and gossip, you never really know until you're up there what the real score is and because we just don't have the playtime we used to, we wanted to know if leveling up was a waste of time if we were interested in anything past basic grouping, maybe Sky once we hit the high end. The people we'd been grouping with inferred that basically the folks still going had so much invested in the server that even though raid content for them was non existent it was still worth logging in.

Racing is part of EQ, it always has been, there's absolutely no expectation on our part of WoW style raid content availability. Naena knows firsthand from his experience on live, and even though I started raiding later racing was always part of it. Sometimes guilds worked out rotations, sometimes they didn't, sometimes folks trained eachother to get to a raid mob, it's just the way EQ works.

I think what would have been a better way to phrase the inquiry, would have been to ask if anyone actively races TMO to mobs, or if folks just don't bother. That's really more to the point.

thank you sir for a good and nice and serius question .
in regard ur question , some guilds compete with tmo or race agaisnt us.
the problem for them is not enough stuff to keep big ammount of people happy.

and many times they pitt people with feeble raid experience or gear.

lately guilds however has been taking it more seriusly and trying to gear up their fellows with plane of sky quests , epics wich dont need big stuff from mobs like inny , ct, vs, trak.

And then u got vp, at this point vp as the op said is controlled by tmo in the sense we kill everything.

being trained or not.
Being real u can dispute TMO easily most of kunark , planar gods,bosses.

But u need to beat them in the race.

easy task? no, possible? yes .

[Arteker]

No one really races TMO for mobs. The server has almost always had 2+ top end guilds with one being obviously better than the other most of the time. When TMO finally knocked out IB (the long time #1) most of the hardcore guys from that guild left. This left the raid scene with only 1 hardcore raiding guild and several casual guilds. Few hardcore guys joined casual guilds and tried and ultimately failed. Now people cry because they can't beat TMO and be #1 or really even be a competitor.

There is more than enough room to be #2 on p99. However, if your plan involves knocking out TMO or trying to challenge them, you're going to fail. There aren't enough people on p99 anymore that are willing to play with the system that is in place.

If I were to ever come back, I would make a raiding guild and then just completely ignore TMO as raiding competition. Raid what you can and have fun, if they want to taunt just ignore them. The main problems other guilds have had is talking a ton of shit and not being able to back it up.

jesus Stealin i miss you . as always u dont bite ur tongue and nail it. if i just could make you come back.....

maybe with some real beer.:o

[Tasslehofp99]

Just need more concise raiding rules and enforcement for them. Other than that no issues with raid scene on p99. I also wish training was outlawed from raiding as its just shitty and a waste of peoples time and it was never allowed by GMa on live despite the large number of players who think it was.


However I won't sit here and try to pretend cockblocking the server out of raid loot for 2+ years so you can sell it isn't just pure greed like some others will. I just can't think of any justification for stuff like that.

[Splorf22]

No one really races TMO for mobs.

The barrier to entry for a new raid guild is huge. Let's face it: your new guild is not going to be hugely better than TMO; the game simply isn't complex enough. So even if your guild succeeds, you can expect to get about 50% of the mobs. Tracking and batphoning is bad enough, when you get up in the middle of the night to kill CT and spend 3 hours dodging DT cycles and then the other guild kills something? That sucks.

Then of course there is the matter of practice. Realistically speaking you can probably expect to put in all that time for a few months with very few successes while you figure out the pull strats and people start to work together better.

And finally even if you get that far, TMO will still have a huge advantage in VP. I'd guess TMO has at least 200 VP keyed toons if not more; FE at their height had like 40-50 I thought.

In fact those three paragraphs are basically the story of FE, and not too surprisingly they burned out, although they did make it interesting for a while.

[Tasslehofp99]

The barrier to entry for a new raid guild is huge. Let's face it: your new guild is not going to be hugely better than TMO; the game simply isn't complex enough. So even if your guild succeeds, you can expect to get about 50% of the mobs. Tracking and batphoning is bad enough, when you get up in the middle of the night to kill CT and spend 3 hours dodging DT cycles and then the other guild kills something? That sucks.

Then of course there is the matter of practice. Realistically speaking you can probably expect to put in all that time for a few months with very few successes while you figure out the pull strats and people start to work together better.

And finally even if you get that far, TMO will still have a huge advantage in VP. I'd guess TMO has at least 200 VP keyed toons if not more; FE at their height had like 40-50 I thought.

In fact those three paragraphs are basically the story of FE, and not too surprisingly they burned out, although they did make it interesting for a while.

Just to clarify we had never logged more than 30 FE in VP and were almost always outnumbered 2 to 1.
For our druushk kill we had 24 ppl, with atleast 3 of them kiting TMO's trains while the rest downed the dragon. TMO had close to if not over 40 in zone or outside waiting to zone in. I could post logs but I'm at work and on a cell phone so ill pass for now. With training allowed in VP I honestly think no guild stands too good kf a chance on their own. Even if you kill TMO's first wave of trainers they have 20 more ready to zone in.

Pretty spot on though, I still think FE has lots lf potential though. Lots of folks quit who will likely come back for velious just like in other guilds. In the meantime we keep trying to recruit and kill shit but like you say when you have no infrastructure and limited numbers you don't stand a realistic chance to threaten TMO's chokehold.

[Splorf22]

Just need more concise raiding rules and enforcement for them. Other than that no issues with raid scene on p99.

No, we need changes to the mechanics of how raid mobs spawn. It should be possible for players to compete, if not actually succeed, for raid mobs even if they only play 5 hours a week. My personal favorite is still tokens, but I would consider repops a huge improvement.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=117673

[Ajkuhuun]

I'm not sure where folks got the idea we're trying to start a guild, it was more of an inquiry to help us decide what guild we're working toward and to that end, what to realistically expect when we get there. No master plan, just trying to get a real feel for the endgame of the server.

[Tasslehofp99]

I'm not sure where folks got the idea we're trying to start a guild, it was more of an inquiry to help us decide what guild we're working toward and to that end, what to realistically expect when we get there. No master plan, just trying to get a real feel for the endgame of the server.

Understood but there is a post like this about 3 times a month. There are tons of people who feel the raiding scene needs fixing, and understabdably so. I just think when people make posts like this people on both sides of the argument tend to get really fired up about it.

[Splorf22]

Raiding in P99= Camp a fully buffed raid force at whatever spawn you want to kill. Wait the 3 to 7(or more) days that it takes the mob to spawn. Track 24/7 so someone else doesn't get it. Log 40 people in and kill it. Then move to the next mob.

If that sounds like fun to you, grind to 60 and join TMO.

If that doesn't sound like fun to you, join whoever you want and accept that you might not see your epic for a long time.

Your question was answered on the first page, although he mildly exaggerated the amount of camping toons. The vast majority of the posts in this thread have been spot on, although obviously from different viewpoints.

[Ajkuhuun]

Understood but there is a post like this about 3 times a month. There are tons of people who feel the raiding scene needs fixing, and understabdably so. I just think when people make posts like this people on both sides of the argument tend to get really fired up about it.

Yeah was totally not the intention, to be frank, the alts we've been grouping with just made all of end game sound thoroughly depressing. Looking over the boards of course there's a lot of TMO vs everyone drama, really just hoped to get a more realistic idea of the endgame on p99. Honestly having a blast here, most of the folks we've met in game are stellar.

[Tasslehofp99]

Both TMO and FE have fielded forces of 40+ ppl at one time or another. Usually TMO averages 30 to 40 while FE averages 20 to 30 on batphoned raids.


I just think the issue is really one guild has grown so big and powerful that they quite literally view themselves as above the rules. They respond to posts like this with "oh pixel welfare step your game up etcetc" when in reality most guilds would just be happy with an occasional attempt at mobs. The sense of entitlement to me is evident from their attitude towards rules, gms, players, and opposing guilds.

If you so much as threaten their chokehold on any mob besides maybe maestro, its all out flame war and smear campaign against you and your guild. The top guild on p99 has no interest in competition.

[Arteker]

Just need more concise raiding rules and enforcement for them. Other than that no issues with raid scene on p99. I also wish training was outlawed from raiding as its just shitty and a waste of peoples time and it was never allowed by GMa on live despite the large number of players who think it was.


However I won't sit here and try to pretend cockblocking the server out of raid loot for 2+ years so you can sell it isn't just pure greed like some others will. I just can't think of any justification for stuff like that.

tass you forgot one thing whatever tmo do with his loot is his own problem. we killed it our members put his time to get it so whatever we choose to do is rigth while we dont break the rules the staff have.

no one need to buy from tmo or get their epics or bps or whatever , back in the day 95% of the p99 population didint even have what they had now.

or even the option to atleats buy his epic. now atleats u can buy a mq, not different from when guilds sold mqs of velious armour.

[Tasslehofp99]

tass you forgot one thing whatever tmo do with his loot is his own problem. we killed it our members put his time to get it so whatever we choose to do is rigth while we dont break the rules the staff have.

no one need to buy from tmo or get their epics or bps or whatever , back in the day 95% of the p99 population didint even have what they had now.

or even the option to atleats buy his epic. now atleats u can buy a mq, not different from when guilds sold mqs of velious armour.

Except that guilds had the option of farming their own armor or epics on live. That option is a lot less feasible on p99 for whatever reasons. I try to be polite with you dude but I seriously can't understand the logic behind your statements. To me, you really just make yourself look more greedy with each post.

[Tasslehofp99]

Both TMO and FE have fielded forces of 40+ ppl at one time or another. Usually TMO averages 30 to 40 while FE averages 20 to 30 on batphoned raids.


I just think the issue is really one guild has grown so big and powerful that they quite literally view themselves as above the rules. They respond to posts like this with "oh pixel welfare step your game up etcetc" when in reality most guilds would just be happy with an occasional attempt at mobs. The sense of entitlement to me is evident from their attitude towards rules, gms, players, and opposing guilds.

If you so much as threaten their chokehold on any mob besides maybe maestro, its all out flame war and smear campaign against you and your guild. The top guild on p99 has no interest in competition.

Quoting because my damn posts always end up at the last post of every page.


But, yeah.

[Autotune]

I'm not sure where folks got the idea we're trying to start a guild, it was more of an inquiry to help us decide what guild we're working toward and to that end, what to realistically expect when we get there. No master plan, just trying to get a real feel for the endgame of the server.

Doesn't matter if you're starting or joining, the end result will be the same depending on the guild's expectations.

Look at any posts from FE's point of view and you'll see the truth in what I posted.

Toward the end, TMO and IB had an extremely even take of targets per month (on average) while fighting each other. After IB left with most of their players, they took nearly half the hardcore people.

TMO: Large core group of dedicated raiders and large casual fluff numbers to take down anything at anytime.

FE: Small core group of dedicated raiders and enough casual fluff numbers to take down most targets at most times.

Every other guild is a large core of casual players with very few capable of being dedicated raiders.

[Bantam 1]

TMO starts a rotation -

guild x decides to not respect the rotation.

[Autotune]

Both TMO and FE have fielded forces of 40+ ppl at one time or another. Usually TMO averages 30 to 40 while FE averages 20 to 30 on batphoned raids.


I just think the issue is really one guild has grown so big and powerful that they quite literally view themselves as above the rules. They respond to posts like this with "oh pixel welfare step your game up etcetc" when in reality most guilds would just be happy with an occasional attempt at mobs. The sense of entitlement to me is evident from their attitude towards rules, gms, players, and opposing guilds.

If you so much as threaten their chokehold on any mob besides maybe maestro, its all out flame war and smear campaign against you and your guild. The top guild on p99 has no interest in competition.

You must have forgotten the part where FE came on to the scene claiming to knock out TMO and that TMO better be ready, then FE started getting kills and talking more smack. Your guild brought it upon themselves to try and fill IB's shoes and it cost you.

[Autotune]

jesus Stealin i miss you . as always u dont bite ur tongue and nail it. if i just could make you come back.....

maybe with some real beer.:o

I could go for some real beers right about now lol

[Zhaige]

TMO starts a rotation -

guild x decides to not respect the rotation.

Blacklist said guild? If you have 3 or 4 guilds in a rotation with TMO and one guild decides to act a fool, will it be difficult for the congregation of guilds to deal with them? Blacklisted guild members would have more difficult times finding groups, purchasing items, etc. Plus, individuals in that guild, who quite possibly spent a lot of time and effort building their characters and reputation, probably wouldn't like their name to be associated with a negative guild. As a result, the blacklisted guilds numbers dwindle until the point that they cannot raid anymore.

The power of the players in this game should be respected. We shouldn't rely on the devs to solve these issues, but we should solve them ourselves. :eek:

Let us use our powers of civilization and diplomacy to create a positive atmosphere that we can all enjoy! :D

[Tasslehofp99]

You must have forgotten the part where FE came on to the scene claiming to knock out TMO and that TMO better be ready, then FE started getting kills and talking more smack. Your guild brought it upon themselves to try and fill IB's shoes and it cost you.

You could argue that it was a result of TMO's attitude towards the server or any form of competition as well.

Either way you look at it raiding on p99 leaves a lot to be desired.


Trains outside of VP barely ever enforced.
Variance is fucked.
Kiting raid mobs to stall for your guild not enforced as it should be.
ONE guild more or less dictating any kind of reforms to raid scene.
ONE guild fighting against the rest of the server when any kind of discussion regarding altering the raid scene in any way that might lessen their pixel intake.


Shits fucked anyway you look at it really, but all we can do is hope for change.

Hopefully if/when sirken and rogean have another twitch discussion its about the blue server and the sad state of the raid scene is discussed.

[Bantam 1]

Blacklist said guild? If you have 3 or 4 guilds in a rotation with TMO and one guild decides to act a fool, will it be difficult for the congregation of guilds to deal with them? Blacklisted guild members would have more difficult times finding groups, purchasing items, etc. Plus, individuals in that guild, who quite possibly spent a lot of time and effort building their characters and reputation, probably wouldn't like their name to be associated with a negative guild. As a result, the blacklisted guilds numbers dwindle until the point that they cannot raid anymore.

The power of the players in this game should be respected. We shouldn't rely on the devs to solve these issues, but we should solve them ourselves. :eek:

Let us use our powers of civilization and diplomacy to create a positive atmosphere that we can all enjoy! :D

Yeah this works unless the guild becomes strong enough to not care either way.

[Tasslehofp99]

Blacklist said guild? If you have 3 or 4 guilds in a rotation with TMO and one guild decides to act a fool, will it be difficult for the congregation of guilds to deal with them? Blacklisted guild members would have more difficult times finding groups, purchasing items, etc. Plus, individuals in that guild, who quite possibly spent a lot of time and effort building their characters and reputation, probably wouldn't like their name to be associated with a negative guild. As a result, the blacklisted guilds numbers dwindle until the point that they cannot raid anymore.

The power of the players in this game should be respected. We shouldn't rely on the devs to solve these issues, but we should solve them ourselves. :eek:

Let us use our powers of civilization and diplomacy to create a positive atmosphere that we can all enjoy! :D

Great idea but rotations just annihilate any sense of competition between guilds.
When you actively take part in attempting to kill raid bosses you will realize there are many other problems involved.

You can't use diplomacy or reason with a group of greedy folks who really could care less if there were even any other guilds on the server aside from them.

[Autotune]

You could argue that it was a result of TMO's attitude towards the server or any form of competition as well.

Either way you look at it raiding on p99 leaves a lot to be desired.


Trains outside of VP barely ever enforced.
Variance is fucked.
Kiting raid mobs to stall for your guild not enforced as it should be.
ONE guild more or less dictating any kind of reforms to raid scene.
ONE guild fighting against the rest of the server when any kind of discussion regarding altering the raid scene in any way that might lessen their pixel intake.


Shits fucked anyway you look at it really, but all we can do is hope for change.

Hopefully if/when sirken and rogean have another twitch discussion its about the blue server and the sad state of the raid scene is discussed.

You can't blame TMO for how your guild acts or reacts. Take responsibility.

Trains are easily dealt with, both in-game and getting staff to hand out punishments. They aren't as common or as bad as you make them out to be.

Variance sucks, but it's obviously here to sucking stay. That's the staff's fault, you won't be able to find a single player that wants that shit.

Kiting happens very seldom, but is something that is easily resolved.

The raid scene doesn't need reforms so much as guilds need realistic views on what they want from the raid scene. You could easily ignore TMO.

The only alteration that the raid scene needs is removing variance and giving the server weekly repops. Then just hand out raid suspensions for poopsocking.

[Bantam 1]

You could argue that it was a result of TMO's attitude towards the server or any form of competition as well.

Either way you look at it raiding on p99 leaves a lot to be desired.


Trains outside of VP barely ever enforced.
Variance is fucked.
Kiting raid mobs to stall for your guild not enforced as it should be.
ONE guild more or less dictating any kind of reforms to raid scene.
ONE guild fighting against the rest of the server when any kind of discussion regarding altering the raid scene in any way that might lessen their pixel intake.


Shits fucked anyway you look at it really, but all we can do is hope for change.

Hopefully if/when sirken and rogean have another twitch discussion its about the blue server and the sad state of the raid scene is discussed.

If someone is stalling... then take it and fraps what's going on. This kinda falls under the island justice tiggles said.

[Arteker]

tmo never dictated any reform on the rules , when sirken asked us to step in and test changes we agree.

sadly since it diidnt worked for some guilds as it was suposed to be it was removed.


as i remember staff hass been very helpfull to help with some of the issues of raidin like FTE shouts.

[Tasslehofp99]

If someone is stalling... then take it and fraps what's going on. This kinda falls under the island justice tiggles said.

The problem is fraps is usually dismissed when submitted from FE, don't you think we have tried getting justice? :rolleyes:

Kiting and training (intentional or unintentional) has been done by both sides, but only one guild is asked to sit out spawns or has their players suspended(as far as I'm aware.) I'm not talking bout shit in the past that happened with IB either.

And arteker you need to stop bringing up the stuff that happened 2years ago, I'm talking about stuff that's happened in the last 4 or 5 months.

[Tiggles]

No one really races TMO for mobs. The server has almost always had 2+ top end guilds with one being obviously better than the other most of the time. When TMO finally knocked out IB (the long time #1) most of the hardcore guys from that guild left. This left the raid scene with only 1 hardcore raiding guild and several casual guilds. Few hardcore guys joined casual guilds and tried and ultimately failed. Now people cry because they can't beat TMO and be #1 or really even be a competitor.

There is more than enough room to be #2 on p99. However, if your plan involves knocking out TMO or trying to challenge them, you're going to fail. There aren't enough people on p99 anymore that are willing to play with the system that is in place.

If I were to ever come back, I would make a raiding guild and then just completely ignore TMO as raiding competition. Raid what you can and have fun, if they want to taunt just ignore them. The main problems other guilds have had is talking a ton of shit and not being able to back it up.

I skimmed this post but I agree with 100% of what Stealin says because he's my boy and he keeps it real.

There is plenty of room for a number #2 guild on this server but every guild that forms tries to talk shit and "dethrone" TMO instead of existing on there own merits.

I'm not saying it's fair but TMO is the big dog on this server we can monopolize any and all content and when some new guild starts shit talking shit on the daily we have no motivation to let you exist.

There is a small >20 member "hardcore" crew of old IB/VD people who quit and come back every other month, they join a casual raiding guild and motivate them to mass recruit and take raid targets, This causes that guild to explode in membership and these old "hardcore" members get promoted to leadership roles.

Unfortunately, These old IB members don't want to slay Talendor or Faydedar they want to "KILL" TMO so they force these members to compete against TMO for Trak and CT and VP when they were happy to get some gear and there epics. They may get lucky and kill these mobs but eventually TMO gets tired of losing CT/Trakanon and man up and focus on killing these mobs. The casual fluff of this guild starts to get burnt out losing CT over and over again and having 10+ hour corpse runs in Veeshan's Peak due to trains so they quit.

When that happens the old IB people quit again or move onto the next guild to start the cycle over again. Take a look at FE once they stopped making forward progress towards VP every single IB member (who has all their non VP loot) gquit within a month and reformed IB again.

Out of any raid capable guild out there the is one who doesn't talk Shit to us and that is Taken (Minus Thulak, fuck that guy)

If the officership of Taken wanted to get in contact with me or Zeelot and talked about maybe slaying a world dragon or so with us racing them for it I guarantee we could work something out. I have no problems with another raiding guild but when there goal is to kill my guild I will retaliate.

[Ragaroth]

This 'end-game' guild drama is the equivalent of suiting up in your high school football uniform and bodyslamming people at the bar where you guys chose to meet up at for your 10 year reunion, all the while scream-reminiscing about your 'four touchdowns in one game'. Al Bundys, everywhere.

[Frogie305]

Are u seriously bragging about being top dog on a game that is more then a decade old and only a few thousand play on the server, that is just to funny.

Who are you ?? And Yes, Yes i am. Game of thrones EQ style you want it ? come and take it.

[Lorraine]

Out of any raid capable guild out there the is one who doesn't talk Shit to us and that is Taken (Minus Thulak, fuck that guy)

If the officership of Taken wanted to get in contact with me or Zeelot and talked about maybe slaying a world dragon or so with us racing them for it I guarantee we could work something out. I have no problems with another raiding guild but when there goal is to kill my guild I will retaliate.


Tiggles, tell people that Taken leadership is directly connected with TMO. Raiding/gaining dkp with you etc etc.
You don't bite the hand that feeds you.



Who are you ?? And Yes, Yes i am. Game of thrones EQ style you want it ? come and take it.


Nice comeback.
Let's meet up after class, at the parking lot behind McDonalds and throw-it down, middle school like.

[Arteker]

Tiggles, tell people that Taken leadership is directly connected with TMO. Raiding/gaining dkp with you etc etc.
You don't bite the hand that feeds you.






Nice comeback.
Let's meet up after class, at the parking lot behind McDonalds and throw-it down, middle school like.

care to show some proof of that or just more made up stuff.at very best i have seen 1 or taken people going to vp but dkp earning? sorry i guess u still need feed the vd paranoia

[Gaffin Deeppockets]

Taken the king of ragefire farming. Lostprophetz still making them pixel gains off guild.

[quido]

I find it funny that Tasslehof has just moved his RnFing to server chat since he quit RnF.

I would also like to point out that outside of VP, for a long while, FE outnumbered TMO. They then mismanaged their guild to the point of a bunch of people quitting/defecting. They now prefer to field less people.

[zel]

Tass didn't start this thread, and I think he has actually been pretty tame compared to how he usually crusades against TMO.

[quido]

yeah all his ranting and flaming is just backhanded now instead of pathetically in your face

[deneauth]

Just like Rogean has said several times in the past the community morphs the play style of the server. If you don't agree with something then do something to change it, whining hasn't solved anything in 3 years if a group of people want to dethrone the top dog nut up or shut up and just enjoy the game.

[Porz]

Just like Rogean has said several times in the past the community morphs the play style of the server. If you don't agree with something then do something to change it, whining hasn't solved anything in 3 years if a group of people want to dethrone the top dog nut up or shut up and just enjoy the game.

I really can't wait until I get home and can comment my rant on this thread. But the biggest part of this is if you want to raid do it! As a guild stop focusing on "dethroning" and focus on a few targets and slowly progress more. No guild is going to hit the scene is dethrone tmo right buff the bat if ever! Don't rant/bitch/moan/complain and flame the top guild for being just that. Grow dome balls and do something about it. Use a methodical plan and execute and if you cannot do that then you don't have what it takes to being the second to top dog on the server (which seems like it is not the worst place to be) even if you're only getting 10-20% of spawns that's more gear than 0%!!

[Frieza_Prexus]

I've noticed that most guilds who try to make an entrance to the raid scene do it in an all or nothing way. You need a lot of people and a lot of spare accounts / resources to pull this off. TMO is so deeply entrenched and equipped that you're going to face severe burnout doing this.

It's so much smarter to start with a crew camped out and prepped for an outdoor dragon than it is to keep up with all of the junk that can spawn in a week. I imagine that if a guild was reliably dropping outdoor dragons that the applicants and resources would grow themselves. They're much easier to track, and TMO generally doesn't camp out for them. It's easy to gain a significant advantage on these mobs. Once that guild has a sizable lock on those targets then it can move to the others that require more coordination / mobilization such as Innoruuk and Draco. The key is to always retreat to the encounters that you have learned as an organization when you get bested elsewhere. Those constant kills are what keeps organizational momentum going. If you go after everything, every loss is a crushing defeat. If you "live" at the lesser targets every loss of a higher tier target simply becomes an exciting learning experience until you have that on lock down too.

Baby steps.

[zanderklocke]

Out of any raid capable guild out there the is one who doesn't talk Shit to us and that is Taken (Minus Thulak, fuck that guy)


I'm curious who you see as raid guilds because I have a hard time imagining Rapture, Divinity, and Azure Guard talking shit to you guys.

[deneauth]

For such a small community with so many high level characters we are really just lacking content at this point Velious will help with that immensely. Also I am not saying every guild who raids is out to oust TMO for top raid guild that is just silly. No one likes tracking an outdoor dragon for up to 4 days and losing it repeatedly it is demoralizing. There is such vicious competition for these targets that if you make one mistake that's all it takes to lose your window of opportunity. I was in VD for what I call my "dark days" of raiding because it was just an aweful experience for me. I personally think the raid scene is much better now as compared to then.

[Thulack]

I skimmed this post but I agree with 100% of what Stealin says because he's my boy and he keeps it real.

There is plenty of room for a number #2 guild on this server but every guild that forms tries to talk shit and "dethrone" TMO instead of existing on there own merits.

I'm not saying it's fair but TMO is the big dog on this server we can monopolize any and all content and when some new guild starts shit talking shit on the daily we have no motivation to let you exist.

There is a small >20 member "hardcore" crew of old IB/VD people who quit and come back every other month, they join a casual raiding guild and motivate them to mass recruit and take raid targets, This causes that guild to explode in membership and these old "hardcore" members get promoted to leadership roles.

Unfortunately, These old IB members don't want to slay Talendor or Faydedar they want to "KILL" TMO so they force these members to compete against TMO for Trak and CT and VP when they were happy to get some gear and there epics. They may get lucky and kill these mobs but eventually TMO gets tired of losing CT/Trakanon and man up and focus on killing these mobs. The casual fluff of this guild starts to get burnt out losing CT over and over again and having 10+ hour corpse runs in Veeshan's Peak due to trains so they quit.

When that happens the old IB people quit again or move onto the next guild to start the cycle over again. Take a look at FE once they stopped making forward progress towards VP every single IB member (who has all their non VP loot) gquit within a month and reformed IB again.

Out of any raid capable guild out there the is one who doesn't talk Shit to us and that is Taken (Minus Thulak, fuck that guy)

If the officership of Taken wanted to get in contact with me or Zeelot and talked about maybe slaying a world dragon or so with us racing them for it I guarantee we could work something out. I have no problems with another raiding guild but when there goal is to kill my guild I will retaliate.

At least spell my name right if your gonna insult me. And my heart breaks that you don't like me Tiggles. :D

[xarzzardorn]

I'm curious who you see as raid guilds because I have a hard time imagining Rapture, Divinity, and Azure Guard talking shit to you guys.

divinity and tmo are not on good terms and full circle kind of doesn't exist anymore

[Tasslehofp99]

I find it funny that Tasslehof has just moved his RnFing to server chat since he quit RnF.

I would also like to point out that outside of VP, for a long while, FE outnumbered TMO. They then mismanaged their guild to the point of a bunch of people quitting/defecting. They now prefer to field less people.

I don't consider the things i'm saying to be rants/flames simply because its just the reality of the raiding scene here. Obviously if you there there is some kind of negativity associated with the image I've described of the raiding scene, there is something wrong ;)


Do I wish things were different? yes
Would I like to help bring about changes to the raid scene? Yes
Do I think anything is ever going to change here? no

[gotrocks]

full circle confirmed gone.

i may be one of the last few with a tag still on :(

[Ezrick]

So, I only just started a few weeks ago, but from what I hear TMO pretty much kills everything every time it's up. If you want your epics, you pay TMO for the pieces from the raid mobs that they kill.

Is that really how it is? If you aren't in TMO, is it really that rare to be able to kill any of the raid mobs or are people over exaggerating?

I don't have any problem with competition, I enjoyed raiding in EQ all the way up to Planes of Power and was part of top guilds on the server I played on. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I thought even then we set up rotations so it wasn't just one guild getting to do everything?

I'm enjoying my time playing again so far, but it seems like it would be pretty dull if at the end of it all it was just TMO farming all the raid mobs and nobody else getting to do much of anything.

The funny thing about the "raiding scene" is that there is a "raiding scene". It's not classic. Classically I remember Verant/SOE complaining about the excess time they had to devote to these encounters that would ever only be seen by 1% of the players.

WoW ruined you. Now everyone thinks they are entitled to the big, pink, teddy-bear. Classic EQ NEVER indulged the masses in a "raiding scene". Only the best (yes you will say 'no-job geek-living-in-momma's-basement) players could do it.

Obviously times have changed and EQ live is different, but we're talking 'classic' here.

[Naena]

The funny thing about the "raiding scene" is that there is a "raiding scene". It's not classic. Classically I remember Verant/SOE complaining about the excess time they had to devote to these encounters that would ever only be seen by 1% of the players.

WoW ruined you. Now everyone thinks they are entitled to the big, pink, teddy-bear. Classic EQ NEVER indulged the masses in a "raiding scene". Only the best (yes you will say 'no-job geek-living-in-momma's-basement) players could do it.

Obviously times have changed and EQ live is different, but we're talking 'classic' here.

I spent many, many hours raiding in classic EQ. I'm not talking after Planes of Power when they added instances for everything either. Our server had at least 3 or 4 guilds that raided regularly, even more after Velious came out. I remember times of there being over 200 people at once in the Temple of Veeshan.

EQ classic had what, maybe 500k subscribers at its peak? I bet if you compare the ratio of players to people who got to see raid content in classic EQ, it's probably even higher than classic WoW was. Even before Kunark I remember at least 3 guilds doing Plane of Hate/Fear and getting Naggy/Vox kills before they brought out Sky. If I remember correctly each of those guilds had at least 50 people. I remember them doing a serverwide message at one point telling people to get their friends to log on because they were almost at a record of people online, was it 50,000 maybe? I'm sure most other servers had just as many people raiding as ours did, that seems like a pretty big raiding scene to me.

Anyway, all I wanted to know from posting this was if TMO were really this huge guild that took every single spawn within minutes and nobody else ever had a chance for anything. It sounds like others are able to get some spawns, but most of the server just isn't willing to put in the effort to challenge them. Sounds like FE is working on it, and I'm sure with Velious there being much more raid content for everyone that will help a lot too.

Thanks for the information everyone.

[Ezrick]

I spent many, many hours raiding in classic EQ. I'm not talking after Planes of Power when they added instances for everything either. Our server had at least 3 or 4 guilds that raided regularly, even more after Velious came out. I remember times of there being over 200 people at once in the Temple of Veeshan.

EQ classic had what, maybe 500k subscribers at its peak?

Sounds about right, and there is no way anything close to 5000 individuals ever saw VP before Velious came out. 1000 or maybe even 2000 at that time is about right. I'm not talking about guilds going there once Luclin was live.

[Naena]

Verant, from 1999 to 2001, and SOE, from 2001 to 14 January 2004, issued formal statements giving some indications of the number of EverQuest subscriptions and peak numbers of players online at any given moment.[12] These records show more than 225,000 subscriptions on 1 November 1999,[citation needed] with an increase to more than 450,000 subscriptions by 25 September 2003.[citation needed]

I don't know if those numbers are correct, but Kunark came out April 2000, if it was around 250-300k subscribers that still isn't that bad. I know there was at least 2, maybe 3 guilds that did VP on our server before Velious. VP probably was closer to WoW's ratio of people who did Naxx before TBC, or people who did Sunwell before WotLK though. Before WotLK WoW also had only 1% of its population seeing the top end content.

Either way none of that really matters, current EQ and current WoW are both incredibly easy compared to what they used to be. Classic EQ had just as much of a raiding scene as classic WoW, and while it isn't as big as most MMO's that come out now, it still was a raiding scene.

[Ezrick]

I don't know if those numbers are correct, but Kunark came out April 2000, if it was around 250-300k subscribers that still isn't that bad. I know there was at least 2, maybe 3 guilds that did VP on our server before Velious. VP probably was closer to WoW's ratio of people who did Naxx before TBC, or people who did Sunwell before WotLK though. Before WotLK WoW also had only 1% of its population seeing the top end content.

Either way none of that really matters, current EQ and current WoW are both incredibly easy compared to what they used to be. Classic EQ had just as much of a raiding scene as classic WoW, and while it isn't as big as most MMO's that come out now, it still was a raiding scene.

The point is that 1,2, or 3%, whatever is a small fraction of what is here.

The long, non-classic delay and the copious amount of data available to players has seriously skewed the population on P99 to the high end.

There is a super-large percentage of players at the higher level here. The population of straight level 60 characters is probably ten TIMES the number on a live server pre-Velious. We won't go into the number of people with multiple characters 50+, multiple accounts with the same whether purchased on or off line.

If you wanted to do Trak on live, pre Velious, you needed around 8 clerics. These were live people who played clerics as a main character AND PAID $15 a month for the account. Today every level 60 or at least one in two has access to a 50+ cleric account. Add to that guilds REQUIRING members to do the Soulfire quest (really, what non-paladin EVER did that pre-Velious on live) for a 5 charge CH item, step-by-step how-to guides on how to kill every mob, and a decade and a half of precise information on everything that was classic EQ.

Raiding here is done by the guild with the most players, the most purchased/self-leveled bot accounts, and the most research. They probably couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag without a Wiki, but they are highly organized and highly motivated and they got where they are first.

To answer the original question, yes, raiding is dominated by a single guild almost to exclusion of all others. Yes you can go to Fear and Hate and Sky, but I never really considered raiding as anything other than fighting the highest content available at the time. That, you cannot do without joining TMO.

[Brut]

The long, non-classic delay and the copious amount of data available to players has seriously skewed the population on P99 to the high end.
That and us having sat on Kunark 3x as long as live.

Methinks this is all mostly just an issue of the internet and playerbase in general having changed from what it was in 1999. Back then it was more about the adventure and playing a game and having a good time in your spare time, all immersed and stuff. Now it's primarily about parses and bestinslots, especially once you reach the endgame. We've gone through tons of games/MMORPGs since, and that has turned much of the raiding crowd into jaded elitists that have some unhealthy need to go to bed thinking that they're "at the top". Which results in 24:7 batphones and having to maintain 60% raid attendance so you can one day be DMFd at EC tunnel entrance /Logging all the precious inspect messages.

Despite being EverQuest, this game has a level cap you'll eventually reach (unless Hujiko), and at that point you have to choose between hanging out with the crew you're pals with doing fear/hate/sky/royals clears until you're fed up, or app to some raiding guild and have your computer on character select all day waiting for your cellphone to beep so you can go copy paste your favorite internet troll quotes in /OOC for 5minutes at Trak lair.

The server community morphing the play style of the server is a laugh riot of a statement bytheway. The raidscene community is the most childish thing you'll see on the server, and unless the staff gives the community a reason to stop being idiots, they'll continue being idiots.

[JayN]

That and us having sat on Kunark 3x as long as live.

Methinks this is all mostly just an issue of the internet and playerbase in general having changed from what it was in 1999. Back then it was more about the adventure and playing a game and having a good time in your spare time, all immersed and stuff. Now it's primarily about parses and bestinslots, especially once you reach the endgame. We've gone through tons of games/MMORPGs since, and that has turned much of the raiding crowd into jaded elitists that have some unhealthy need to go to bed thinking that they're "at the top". Which results in 24:7 batphones and having to maintain 60% raid attendance so you can one day be DMFd at EC tunnel entrance /Logging all the precious inspect messages.

Despite being EverQuest, this game has a level cap you'll eventually reach (unless Hujiko), and at that point you have to choose between hanging out with the crew you're pals with doing fear/hate/sky/royals clears until you're fed up, or app to some raiding guild and have your computer on character select all day waiting for your cellphone to beep so you can go copy paste your favorite internet troll quotes in /OOC for 5minutes at Trak lair.

The server community morphing the play style of the server is a laugh riot of a statement bytheway. The raidscene community is the most childish thing you'll see on the server, and unless the staff gives the community a reason to stop being idiots, they'll continue being idiots.

sHIT JUST GOT real

[deneauth]

The point I was trying to get across before is haven't we as a community of players morphed the raid scene to be what it is now? The developers gave us a set of rules which we choose to follow or not. When the rules are broken and the guilty are discovered punishments are administered whether they are just or not. The developers have given us a classic experience and we as a community have molded the raid scene into what it is now which as Rogean himself has pointed out is very classic. I am okay with the way things are now because just like on live I am a casual player, I have seen more endgame content on this server than I ever did on live, but if leadership from raid level guilds got together and came up with a plan, then implemented it, things could be different we do have the power to do so as a community! Its what I choose to believe and I truly feel it can be done.

[Brut]

The point I was trying to get across before is haven't we as a community of players morphed the raid scene to be what it is now? The developers gave us a set of rules which we choose to follow or not. When the rules are broken and the guilty are discovered punishments are administered whether they are just or not. The developers have given us a classic experience and we as a community have molded the raid scene into what it is now which as Rogean himself has pointed out is very classic. I am okay with the way things are now because just like on live I am a casual player, I have seen more endgame content on this server than I ever did on live, but if leadership from raid level guilds got together and came up with a plan, then implemented it, things could be different we do have the power to do so as a community! Its what I choose to believe and I truly feel it can be done.

Not really, the rules have only changed as per dev whims from server's early days all the way to what it is now. There was a rotation early on, then there wasn't, then variance was added, then there were rules about 15 men sitting on spawn points camping dragons shouting to tell the other raid they're not afk, then there wasnt that, then there was frapsquest and guild suspensions, slight alterations to rules like not pulling inny to zoneline, then those got turned around, then there were poopsocks for end of window mobs, then there were extended windows to rid the poopsocks, yada yada yada. Pretty much all of these consist of playerbase stretching every new rule as far as they could (ie. the 15man sockfests was the ridiculous answer to 2-4day random mob windows) until GMs would step in to change things.

The thing is this server's guild leaderships dont really ever sit down and think "wow this is stupid" and fix the idiocy on their own. They keep the stupidity going until one of them gives up and the other can go on to farm everything.

Only instance I can recall where the top guilds got together and resolved anything on their own was a brief trak/VP rotation somewhere along the line. Unless I've missed some behind the scenes details and a GM forced them to do so.

[zanderklocke]

Maybe I seem jaded, but I can't take any of the posts that say "We can change if the guilds work together!" seriously.

Top raiding guild does not care about the raid scene changing from what it is. There is no benefit for them to share mobs with the rest of the server. Maybe they're greedy, but it's a fricken computer game. They aren't out waving steak dinners in front of homeless people; it is a game.

Staff does not care about the raid scene changing from what it is. Maybe when they are done with creating content, they will take more interest in player raid change ideas on the server, but I'm not betting on it. The goal of the project is to create a Classic EverQuest server, not provide the highest possible fun experience for players. Hence a hands off approach on dealing with the players unless someone is exploiting or doing something detrimental to the box. I mean they invented non-classic features such as variance and FTE shouts to be able to be more hands off.

With the understanding that the staff's primary goal is to "create" and not "regulate" a server and that the top guild who controls the raid content is not interested in change in the raid scene, everyone should realize that things are not changing on this server in terms of things like enforced rotations, etc. Until Zeelot gives the big stamp of approval on some server wide raid change or some guild gains and never loses momentum while poaching raid targets away (right...ha), we are playing with the same status quo.

While this is a emulated server, the player base as a majority has chosen to be a lot more hardcore than the majority that was on live, and I suppose that's just the type of diehard players a 14 year old game attracts or the effect of Kunark being out longer than both Kunark and Velious existed on live.

Maybe we can reassess when Velious is out for six months and see if anything has changed.

[Medowin]

The point I was trying to get across before is haven't we as a community of players morphed the raid scene to be what it is now? The developers gave us a set of rules which we choose to follow or not. When the rules are broken and the guilty are discovered punishments are administered whether they are just or not. The developers have given us a classic experience and we as a community have molded the raid scene into what it is now which as Rogean himself has pointed out is very classic. I am okay with the way things are now because just like on live I am a casual player, I have seen more endgame content on this server than I ever did on live, but if leadership from raid level guilds got together and came up with a plan, then implemented it, things could be different we do have the power to do so as a community! Its what I choose to believe and I truly feel it can be done.

Is one guild controlling and monopolizing all of end-game content in the entire game really the classic experience?


Something tells me no.

[falkun]

Only instance I can recall where the top guilds got together and resolved anything on their own was a brief trak/VP rotation somewhere along the line. Unless I've missed some behind the scenes details and a GM forced them to do so.

You are missing the Ragefire agreement. But then TMO's rank and file decided not to abide by an agreement their leadership agreed to and helped establish:
http://i.imgur.com/1U1zM.jpg

But once that drama settled down and the Ragefire agreement had a few cycles in, it was the best agreement this server has ever reached. The next closest thing would be the Sky rotation.

[deneauth]

Rotations have happened in the past and the sky rotation is a wonderful thing. I don't want to rehash any old disputes between guilds the past is in the past, if you are caught up on the past how do you expect to move forward has always been my motto. One guild isn't monopolizing ALL content or else mid tier guilds would never get raid targets, which they do. All that would have to happen is we would have to try and trying out new things can be difficult I understand that. Its not impossible though improbable because all parties involved have to want to do it. Its just me throwing around another idea whats the harm in that?

[Autotune]

You are missing the Ragefire agreement. But then TMO's rank and file decided not to abide by an agreement their leadership agreed to and helped establish:
http://i.imgur.com/1U1zM.jpg

But once that drama settled down and the Ragefire agreement had a few cycles in, it was the best agreement this server has ever reached. The next closest thing would be the Sky rotation.

Zeelot is rank and file?

[falkun]

Zeelot is rank and file?

Is Zeelot one of those TMO sitting at RF? I don't know what alts he may have (access to). Zeelot delegated Xeli the task of establishing and agreeing to that rotation, did Xeli not inform her members in that screenshot about the rotation?

[xarzzardorn]

That and us having sat on Kunark 3x as long as live.

Methinks this is all mostly just an issue of the internet and playerbase in general having changed from what it was in 1999. Back then it was more about the adventure and playing a game and having a good time in your spare time, all immersed and stuff. Now it's primarily about parses and bestinslots, especially once you reach the endgame. We've gone through tons of games/MMORPGs since, and that has turned much of the raiding crowd into jaded elitists that have some unhealthy need to go to bed thinking that they're "at the top". Which results in 24:7 batphones and having to maintain 60% raid attendance so you can one day be DMFd at EC tunnel entrance /Logging all the precious inspect messages.

Despite being EverQuest, this game has a level cap you'll eventually reach (unless Hujiko), and at that point you have to choose between hanging out with the crew you're pals with doing fear/hate/sky/royals clears until you're fed up, or app to some raiding guild and have your computer on character select all day waiting for your cellphone to beep so you can go copy paste your favorite internet troll quotes in /OOC for 5minutes at Trak lair.

The server community morphing the play style of the server is a laugh riot of a statement bytheway. The raidscene community is the most childish thing you'll see on the server, and unless the staff gives the community a reason to stop being idiots, they'll continue being idiots.

the difference between now and 99 is simply that people are better equipped to "dominate" the server one way or another, not that they never would have wanted to given the chance. acting like things were just great back in the day and todays kids are just ruining it for everyone is clearly just wrong.

[arsenalpow]

Not really, the rules have only changed as per dev whims from server's early days all the way to what it is now. There was a rotation early on, then there wasn't, then variance was added, then there were rules about 15 men sitting on spawn points camping dragons shouting to tell the other raid they're not afk, then there wasnt that, then there was frapsquest and guild suspensions, slight alterations to rules like not pulling inny to zoneline, then those got turned around, then there were poopsocks for end of window mobs, then there were extended windows to rid the poopsocks, yada yada yada. Pretty much all of these consist of playerbase stretching every new rule as far as they could (ie. the 15man sockfests was the ridiculous answer to 2-4day random mob windows) until GMs would step in to change things.

The thing is this server's guild leaderships dont really ever sit down and think "wow this is stupid" and fix the idiocy on their own. They keep the stupidity going until one of them gives up and the other can go on to farm everything.

Only instance I can recall where the top guilds got together and resolved anything on their own was a brief trak/VP rotation somewhere along the line. Unless I've missed some behind the scenes details and a GM forced them to do so.

The absolute only reason there hasn't been a solution to the endgame is because TMO does not give a fuck. TMO's attitude is that if someone wants a piece of the pie then they can attempt to take it. That was clear at the guild leadership summit. They didn't even bother to send a rep that could actually commit to a decision. Then when socking turned into a /rand for the chance to engage first it was suddenly overruled when TMO lost the first handful of rolls.

The devs chose this ruleset and TMO adapted. It will always be like this until the devs make a change or until the server bands together or something but realistically the only people that care enough to dump hundreds of hours a week into tracking and mobilizing at every single hour of the day is TMO. I'm not sure if that shows how awesome they are or if it's kinda sad.

[Autotune]

Is Zeelot one of those TMO sitting at RF? I don't know what alts he may have (access to). Zeelot delegated Xeli the task of establishing and agreeing to that rotation, did Xeli not inform her members in that screenshot about the rotation?

Zeelot was on Jaed and he was the one that said was pissed at the deal Xeli made (not a chick, was a dude btw).

It was the rank and file (me, elethia, xasten, and a few others) that changed Zeelot's decision to break the retarded deal that was made. Pretty sure every time Xeli made a deal on TMO's behalf it was horrible for TMO, but we stuck with them every time (might not have liked it or wanted to, but we did).

Anyhow, you can keep trying to bash TMO for upholding their deals.

[Autotune]

The absolute only reason there hasn't been a solution to the endgame is because TMO does not give a fuck. TMO's attitude is that if someone wants a piece of the pie then they can attempt to take it. That was clear at the guild leadership summit. They didn't even bother to send a rep that could actually commit to a decision. Then when socking turned into a /rand for the chance to engage first it was suddenly overruled when TMO lost the first handful of rolls.

The devs chose this ruleset and TMO adapted. It will always be like this until the devs make a change or until the server bands together or something but realistically the only people that care enough to dump hundreds of hours a week into tracking and mobilizing at every single hour of the day is TMO. I'm not sure if that shows how awesome they are or if it's kinda sad.

TMO shouldn't give a fuck. Shame IB left the server, if they hadn't, none of you would even be here commenting about changes to the raid scene. You guys just sat quietly farming planar gear and doing 4 islands of sky up until IB left and VD disbanded.

I tried several times to get other guilds to join in the raid scene, back before IB left, and every time it was met with "OH hell yea, that sounds awesome" and those guilds did absolutely nothing to actually join in.

It's quite clear that none of the other guilds want to put any effort into actually getting targets. You simply want to show up to a predetermined time to take out a predetermined target and acquire loot.

You all should be thanking TMO that IB left so you could finally openly bitch and moan about the raid scene and how only one guild is dominating it. If it wasn't for TMO, you'd still be happy farming planar alt gear.

[Borador]

the difference between now and 99 is simply that people are better equipped to "dominate" the server one way or another, not that they never would have wanted to given the chance. acting like things were just great back in the day and todays kids are just ruining it for everyone is clearly just wrong.

The difference is I learned the term "poop socking" seriously, wtf. If you ever use that to describe something you are doing, rethink your life. No... Really, rethink it. Get a (new) job, girl/guy, workout, eat better, learn a new language, play a different game... Even if you don't actually crap in a sock, you should not be okay associating yourself with someone who might do that.

Along those same lines... 10-15 years ago 24 hours of straight camping was crazy. Now it's commonplace.

Also, while I'm here... some of the TMO "reasoning" is just stupid. Nothing needs to be said other than you are able to take down things, so you do. The people complaining would probably do the same in your place. But, some of the responses on both sides just make certain people look like complete dicks. There would have been a short window to relive true classic raiding, if you missed it (I did) you need to learn to live with that.

[Autotune]

Just an FYI, for those who may not know it, my stance is that no other guild deserves any of VP. The people crying about not being able to get in to VP and get easy loot are the ones that were carried by IB/TR and keyed so they could act as train fodder.

There are a few ex VD (ones that actually put effort in IB's raids) and a few ex IB left who deserve VP loot. Sadly all of those only amount to a handful of people now.

You can say this is an entitled opinion, but no other guild was willing to even challenge IB like TMO(+DA) and they should get every bit of the large pie that's now available.

Shit, TMO was giving you fools world dragons and was debating giving more depending on how things went and most of you complained that it wasn't enough. No matter what TMO gives up, unless it's TMO giving you everything, you guys will never be satisfied.

You DO NOT deserve an equal share (or even remotely close) to TMO's share.

[Thulack]

Just an FYI, for those who may not know it, my stance is that no other guild deserves any of VP. The people crying about not being able to get in to VP and get easy loot are the ones that were carried by IB/TR and keyed so they could act as train fodder.

There are a few ex VD (ones that actually put effort in IB's raids) and a few ex IB left who deserve VP loot. Sadly all of those only amount to a handful of people now.

You can say this is an entitled opinion, but no other guild was willing to even challenge IB like TMO(+DA) and they should get every bit of the large pie that's now available.

Shit, TMO was giving you fools world dragons and was debating giving more depending on how things went and most of you complained that it wasn't enough. No matter what TMO gives up, unless it's TMO giving you everything, you guys will never be satisfied.

You DO NOT deserve an equal share (or even remotely close) to TMO's share.

The forums were better off when you stopped posting. You do realize that it's classic to show up at spots at predetermined times to kill raid mobs right? It takes 20x the effort here to try and do high end raiding compared to live. Thats the retarded part about everything.

[Nuggie]

They deserve it less than a squib who apps to TMO for the easy win? Rather than join the pack of little dogs for the long uphill fight? I prefer the hard road myself. Even if it didn't amount to much.

And btw, VD had a lot of nice people in it. We just had a few people in positions of authority that were rather hot headed. They bumped heads with some leaders of other guilds. Most of us didn't agree with what happened in VP there at the end. That's why the guild fell apart, IMO. Because we didn't support the direction things were going.

As an after thought: I wonder how much different the server would have been if DA and VD had merged together. Or if it would have changed anything at all. One can only speculate. Food for thought.

[Autotune]

The forums were better off when you stopped posting. You do realize that it's classic to show up at spots at predetermined times to kill raid mobs right? It takes 20x the effort here to try and do high end raiding compared to live. Thats the retarded part about everything.

Oh it's classic? Let me go tell Rogean, I am sure he doesn't know that and he will get right on changing it. Then we can tell him that rotations are classic and he will get right on that too!

You do realize this is P99 and not a 1999 live server yeah? Perhaps you don't understand that showing up to a predetermined target at a predetermined time is not possible here, yeah? You do realize I was referencing something that wasn't going to happen, yeah?

No, you don't, cause you're an idiot.

[Nuggie]

I don't support rotations. Shit was cutthroat on lanys. That's classic for me.

[DarkwingDuck]

Meh. I for one do t plan on tracking for 24-75 hours. So ya I guess I don't deserve it...
But at least my life isn't miserable in comparison to those that do lol.
Ps. Still loving my EQ playtime. Fuck the ALL/ALL or nothing bullshit. Ppl can still raid. If u want to join TMO join them, or beat them ! Like OP says.. I may not agree with there asshatness and yes A Lot of them are huge used douches... But if they wanna be gross and poopsock.. Do it. I for one will not personally have my only life gratification come from epeen. Period.

[Wotsirb401]

No. What you described is raiding Trakanon. None of the other raid mobs are basically anything like what you describe.

Nope, he is pretty much right. Speaking from doing it currently that is essentially what you do. Some mobs are a bit different but not really. You ideally want 2 level 60's so you can move them all over the globe, while you make an alt to play to pass the time

[Autotune]

They deserve it less than a squib who apps to TMO for the easy win? Rather than join the pack of little dogs for the long uphill fight? I prefer the hard road myself. Even if it didn't amount to much.

And btw, VD had a lot of nice people in it. We just had a few people in positions of authority that were rather hot headed. They bumped heads with some leaders of other guilds. Most of us didn't agree with what happened in VP there at the end. That's why the guild fell apart, IMO. Because we didn't support the direction things were going.

As an after thought: I wonder how much different the server would have been if DA and VD had merged together. Or if it would have changed anything at all. One can only speculate. Food for thought.

Neither of those type people deserve the loot. However, looking at guilds, TMO deserve to be able to gear their apps with loot that is much better in quality than the other guilds.

I mentioned the only people who actually deserve VP loot, who aren't carrying a TMO tag, because there actually are people who put in time, effort, etc and got nothing out of it.

I never said VD didn't have nice people, I actually knew many in VD and liked some of them. However, they let their leadership walk all over them and couldn't force changes that needed to be done for the betterment of their guild.

As far as afterthoughts: I wonder how different things would have been if TMO and IB had merged together.

[Nuggie]

Dang, your afterthought trumps my afterthought. That is something to think about. You win.

[spoils]

i like stealin....plz come back.

[quido]

Then when socking turned into a /rand for the chance to engage first it was suddenly overruled when TMO lost the first handful of rolls..

The /random at a certain point in the window thing was Sirken's suggestion that everyone agreed to try out for a week. It was dumb as hell, but it's not like it was prematurely abandoned simply because BDA showed up for some freebies.

[falkun]

10-13 years later and 32khp dragons are more valued than they were all those years ago. If you want to fight tooth and nail for them, Stealin, be my guest. Personally, I think you've put in too much effort for a *game*, but its your free time to do with as you please. Considering how much opposition TMO has in the raid scene, its pretty obvious 95% of the server also feels "the raid scene is that bad". Stealin, by your argument that no one else deserves anything in a 12 year old elf simulator because "we haven't put in the effort," you are articulating quite clearly why this server's raid scene is so bad. Blue99's raid scene is a race to the bottom.

Agreements can be made on this server and players can be reasonable human beings, it just doesn't happen often.

[Brut]

"dominate"

Look, the raidscene is a contest of who has gathered the largest amount of people with the most spare time, shortest distance to their keyboards, and the tenacity to repeat the exact same thing for months without getting bored of it. Boasting about your dominance on a non-pvp MMORPG is about as impressive as bragging about beating Minesweeper 40 times every day.

[Nirgon]

Same for other guilds trying to do the same thing.


/entire conversation on this shit

[Nirgon]

It takes 20x the effort here to try and do high end raiding compared to live.

Think about why this is for a minute, especially with such a long Kunark

# of lvl 60 players is a bit top heavy wouldn't you say

[Arteker]

there was alot of nice people in VD, before IB tangled with vd and used them because it was a use of their numbers and a few of their elite players.


VD was the perfect guild for people hittin lvl 50, lots of guild groups in early kunark and almost 2 days raid to fear and hate.

even i remember before ib they took down sisters and and bee boss or that is what kmorrax and others told me.


VD then become the target of IB to boost their every time smaller numbers and to regain his status as number 1.
at first worked but, as always noobs+elitist dont work well. and then tmo win the upperhand again.


once ib rmt and left server VD tried to stand by himself instead to make peace with tmo and go back his old and imo better path and use the learns of the time they fougth tmo to make them even better.



they tried then to figth for number 1 and well it didint worked very well.

[Arteker]

infact even if Vd was the most members banned after the first ban fest they where the prime guild to get a full set of planar armour.

and people loved it.

[Tecmos Deception]

Think about why this is for a minute, especially with such a long Kunark

# of lvl 60 players is a bit top heavy wouldn't you say

Exactly my thoughts. Plus we probably have a larger proportion of more hardcore players than an average live server, plus many of us have 'done it all' except for kill big raid targets so lots and lots of people want to get in on that, etc.

[Funkutron5000]

Look, the raidscene is a contest of who has gathered the largest amount of people with the most spare time, shortest distance to their keyboards, and the tenacity to repeat the exact same thing for months without getting bored of it. Boasting about your dominance on a non-pvp MMORPG is about as impressive as bragging about beating Minesweeper 40 times every day.

Problem is Minesweeper requires some skill

[Wotsirb401]

there was alot of nice people in VD, before IB tangled with vd and used them because it was a use of their numbers and a few of their elite players.


VD was the perfect guild for people hittin lvl 50, lots of guild groups in early kunark and almost 2 days raid to fear and hate.

even i remember before ib they took down sisters and and bee boss or that is what kmorrax and others told me.


VD then become the target of IB to boost their every time smaller numbers and to regain his status as number 1.
at first worked but, as always noobs+elitist dont work well. and then tmo win the upperhand again.


once ib rmt and left server VD tried to stand by himself instead to make peace with tmo and go back his old and imo better path and use the learns of the time they fougth tmo to make them even better.



they tried then to figth for number 1 and well it didint worked very well.

Very true, we were doing fine as a semi casual guild, doing planar clears, doing chardok etc. We had a lot of fun and it seemed like nothing could break us up. One day it seemed that IB was finally getting bored of sweeping every mob without any push from TMO or any other guilds, so members began doing what happens to everyone in life. They got bored and numbers started to suffer so they went to the next best guild (VD) and started having us tag along on raids and we started parking out at Trak to begin with and then it snowballed into all the other raids. Eventually when that fizzled out and people started to fight etc and VD was by themselves again. The former VD did not want to go back after all of that excitement, officers left to server to EQ MAc during the giant RMT purge of 2012 and vd merged with BDA to form VDA etc etc. You all know the rest

[timhutton]

Maybe I seem jaded, but I can't take any of the posts that say "We can change if the guilds work together!" seriously.

Top raiding guild does not care about the raid scene changing from what it is. There is no benefit for them to share mobs with the rest of the server. Maybe they're greedy, but it's a fricken computer game. They aren't out waving steak dinners in front of homeless people; it is a game.

Staff does not care about the raid scene changing from what it is. Maybe when they are done with creating content, they will take more interest in player raid change ideas on the server, but I'm not betting on it. The goal of the project is to create a Classic EverQuest server, not provide the highest possible fun experience for players. Hence a hands off approach on dealing with the players unless someone is exploiting or doing something detrimental to the box. I mean they invented non-classic features such as variance and FTE shouts to be able to be more hands off.

With the understanding that the staff's primary goal is to "create" and not "regulate" a server and that the top guild who controls the raid content is not interested in change in the raid scene, everyone should realize that things are not changing on this server in terms of things like enforced rotations, etc. Until Zeelot gives the big stamp of approval on some server wide raid change or some guild gains and never loses momentum while poaching raid targets away (right...ha), we are playing with the same status quo.

While this is a emulated server, the player base as a majority has chosen to be a lot more hardcore than the majority that was on live, and I suppose that's just the type of diehard players a 14 year old game attracts or the effect of Kunark being out longer than both Kunark and Velious existed on live.

Maybe we can reassess when Velious is out for six months and see if anything has changed.

That pretty much hightlights all of the issues nicely. I'm glad we could come together as a community and have this discussion.

See all of you in a couple of days when the next 30 page thread concerning the raid scene and how messed up it is shows itself.

In the meantime, enjoy the bantering and bickering this thread is sure to bring over the next 15+ pages after the OP asked a simple question!

P.S. OP: if this thread or any of the others involving this topic still haven't answered your question feel free to PM myself or a more knowledgable player immediately! thanks :)

[Era'viss]

I absolutely love the open zone, no instance world that is EQ. It rewards those who can dedicate the time and assemble the organization that will allow players to reap the benefits. Nothing wrong with that at all. More exciting that all those other MMOs out there these days.

I completely support whatever top dog guild there is at any time, because they aren't just handed victories and nicely timed server resets for instances.

The only time I would ever be upset with top guild members is if they were complete jerks all the time.

To the OP: Every TMO person I've met were nice and extremely helpful. Base any of your opinions about them on your own experiences with them directly.

[Roku]

There is no justification for the greedy shit that goes down on this server.

Yes there is, RMT.

[Splorf22]

just handed victories

the content itself is actually somewhat challenging when you don't zerg it down with 50+

[finalgrunt]

Raid scene may or may not be bad depending on your involvement and expectations.

If you want to kill all targets, join TMO. If you want to see and kill most targets join guild #2 of the moment. Either way, you need to be prepared to sometimes (often) go full retard. As long as you turn a blind eye and plug your ears, you'll remain somehow innocent.
If you want to experience classic raiding, this is probably the wrong place.
If you don't mind killing one or two targets a year, any other guild will do.

[spoils]

how about a unified outcry for simulated patch days! let all thousands of us get on our knees and grovel for patch days!

Still preserves competition, allows for some small guilds to get some phatz, etc...

"what about euros?" switch off one sim patch day during american primetime, completely randomized, and another during euro/asian primetimes...

Just do it.

[runlvlzero]

Judging by 8 pages of exciting reads it sounds like you guys are having a ton of !FUN! over here. Its almost as good as the one time I played PnP DnD with my pals.

[Clark]

It's quite funny to see the sarcastic responses from TMO members.


Here is their current stock of raid loot for sale: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=119673


Oh, and yeah...epics were pretty hard to acquire and rare in kunark era, but Kunark didn't last 2 years on live. There is no justification for the greedy shit that goes down on this server.

Typical TMO using people as pawns for personal gain, no guildbank even need's 5-10% of that.

All that loot shoulda been rolled for and divided out amongst members, guilds should share the wealth not try and create Platlord 2.0

You guys are on some alternate universe kind of greed lol, just look what happened with IB's loot council and Kinsawt the Clown before they tried EQMac and left P99 for a while

[loramin]

If you want to see and kill most targets join guild #2 of the moment.

Who exactly is #2 right now? Or #3 or #4 or ... really, who else is serious enough about raiding that they someday might challenge TMO? As a lowbie who hopes to try and join one such a guild someday, I'd like to know whose ass I should start kissing now ;)

[Autotune]

10-13 years later and 32khp dragons are more valued than they were all those years ago. If you want to fight tooth and nail for them, Stealin, be my guest. Personally, I think you've put in too much effort for a *game*, but its your free time to do with as you please. Considering how much opposition TMO has in the raid scene, its pretty obvious 95% of the server also feels "the raid scene is that bad". Stealin, by your argument that no one else deserves anything in a 12 year old elf simulator because "we haven't put in the effort," you are articulating quite clearly why this server's raid scene is so bad. Blue99's raid scene is a race to the bottom.

Agreements can be made on this server and players can be reasonable human beings, it just doesn't happen often.

You've put in nothing and want the same as someone who puts in obvious more time.

You work 40 hours, but want the same pay as someone who has done their 40 as well as put in 20 hours of overtime.

I may have put in too much effort for a game, but it's what I wanted to do when I wanted to do it. When I first started I wasn't interested in raiding and I didn't complain about how it was and when I did want to raid, I chose to play with how it was and not complain till it was how I wanted it. I got all I wanted out of raiding and quit when it wasn't interesting anymore.

I can safely say I got all of what I wanted out of P99 and I bet not many can say the same.

My argument is no one who is willing to put in similar effort should be rewarded similarly to someone who is putting in that effort.

This server, so far, is getting what they put in and there is nothing wrong with that. It took great effort to get TMO to where they are and they reap great rewards for doing it, your guild put in little effort and got little reward for it.

You guys keep asking TMO to remove the barrier that they had to climb to get where they are, I don't blame them for not doing it nor wanting to do it.

[fastboy21]

Who exactly is #2 right now? Or #3 or #4 or ... really, who else is serious enough about raiding that they someday might challenge TMO? As a lowbie who hopes to try and join one such a guild someday, I'd like to know whose ass I should start kissing now ;)

There are plenty of guilds that do everything other than a few spawns and VP...this is pretty much how I recall it on live on my server btw. TMO really isn't anything unusual if you have been around the old school EQ raid game at all.

In all honesty, if you want to be a full time raider in an mmo then EQ wasn't for you until luclin. There just isn't a lot of content, and the content that exists doesn't have all that much depth to it (poopsock, bat phone, etc.).

At this point in EQ most of th joy came from other elements of the game.

[skipdog]

You've put in nothing and want the same as someone who puts in obvious more time.

You work 40 hours, but want the same pay as someone who has done their 40 as well as put in 20 hours of overtime.

I may have put in too much effort for a game, but it's what I wanted to do when I wanted to do it. When I first started I wasn't interested in raiding and I didn't complain about how it was and when I did want to raid, I chose to play with how it was and not complain till it was how I wanted it. I got all I wanted out of raiding and quit when it wasn't interesting anymore.

I can safely say I got all of what I wanted out of P99 and I bet not many can say the same.

My argument is no one who is willing to put in similar effort should be rewarded similarly to someone who is putting in that effort.

This server, so far, is getting what they put in and there is nothing wrong with that. It took great effort to get TMO to where they are and they reap great rewards for doing it, your guild put in little effort and got little reward for it.

You guys keep asking TMO to remove the barrier that they had to climb to get where they are, I don't blame them for not doing it nor wanting to do it.

Great post. So much bitching from those not willing to put in the work. That's pretty much what this all comes down to. It's sad that somebody like Falkun can insult someone in TMO for 'putting too much time into the game' when we are playing.. EVERQUEST and he in a guild with tons of people who play just as much as some of these TMO members. It truly boggles my mind lol.

[loramin]

There are plenty of guilds that do everything other than a few spawns and VP...this is pretty much how I recall it on live on my server btw. TMO really isn't anything unusual if you have been around the old school EQ raid game at all.

Totally; on my original server of Bristlebane our TMO was called Club Fu. However, we also had other guilds nipping at their heels, and (at least during one period of time) the widely regarded #2 guild was called AO (Arch Overseers I think?). Then there was 3rd place one whose name I can't remember, and a few other contenders for 4th (eg. Southern Lights).

I'm just wondering, is there even a clear #2 and/or #3 on P99? If not, which guilds would at least be considered contenders for those spots? Or is there some thread on the elsewhere (eg. on the guild forum) that I should be looking at?

[Ezrick]

Maybe I seem jaded, but I can't take any of the posts that say "We can change if the guilds work together!" seriously.

You can't, it won't happen. There are way too many people/guilds wanting to do this content (read get the loot for their paper-doll).

It can't be 'fixed'. We can't introduce Velious two years ago. We can't take back the decade of analysis of EverQuest and the knowledge of every single item and every single quest.

In classic times raid strategies were guarded, yes they leaked out eventually, but it took the intrepid. You went after that boss night after night. You died repeatedly, you learned, and maybe, just maybe you triumphed.

There is no "raiding scene" here. Only a pharming scene. You read how-to's on everything and consider yourselves elite players because you can run fastest to a mob.

Raiding on P99 is PvP. It's not classic. We all remember Gornaire running around DL for weeks. Some of you remember seeing guilds try to kill her. Some fewer of us remember trying it in person (and dying, and dying until we got it right.) She lived 19 minutes Saturday. She fell to the guild that got there first, the one that got the people in the zone and to her the fastest. It's just PvP organizational skills, it has nothing to do with gaming skills.

Raiding is NOT reading a Wiki and killing a mob that's been killed a thousand times before and executing a well-known strategy freely available to all. You are just lewt pharming because you weren't good enough (or old enough, or both) back in the day.


Ezrick Blackpriest
<Black Company>
Tarew Marr 1999-2002

[Yinikren]

^What he said. Competition? There never was competition.

[Galelor]

Totally; on my original server of Bristlebane our TMO was called Club Fu. However, we also had other guilds nipping at their heels, and (at least during one period of time) the widely regarded #2 guild was called AO (Arch Overseers I think?). Then there was 3rd place one whose name I can't remember, and a few other contenders for 4th (eg. Southern Lights).

I'm just wondering, is there even a clear #2 and/or #3 on P99? If not, which guilds would at least be considered contenders for those spots? Or is there some thread on the elsewhere (eg. on the guild forum) that I should be looking at?

If you want to raid but are old enough to remember the stuff you quoted, you might want to consider a server where you don't have to race for spawns via bat phone and/or poopsock for hours on end. You'll be doing yourself a favor. If you just want to group, and not raid, the server population here is high enough that this could be the server for you. EQMac and SoD both have way better raid scenes, but p99 has one of the best grouping scenes due to the large population.

[Arteker]

You can't, it won't happen. There are way too many people/guilds wanting to do this content (read get the loot for their paper-doll).

It can't be 'fixed'. We can't introduce Velious two years ago. We can't take back the decade of analysis of EverQuest and the knowledge of every single item and every single quest.

In classic times raid strategies were guarded, yes they leaked out eventually, but it took the intrepid. You went after that boss night after night. You died repeatedly, you learned, and maybe, just maybe you triumphed.

There is no "raiding scene" here. Only a pharming scene. You read how-to's on everything and consider yourselves elite players because you can run fastest to a mob.

Raiding on P99 is PvP. It's not classic. We all remember Gornaire running around DL for weeks. Some of you remember seeing guilds try to kill her. Some fewer of us remember trying it in person (and dying, and dying until we got it right.) She lived 19 minutes Saturday. She fell to the guild that got there first, the one that got the people in the zone and to her the fastest. It's just PvP organizational skills, it has nothing to do with gaming skills.

Raiding is NOT reading a Wiki and killing a mob that's been killed a thousand times before and executing a well-known strategy freely available to all. You are just lewt pharming because you weren't good enough (or old enough, or both) back in the day.


Ezrick Blackpriest
<Black Company>
Tarew Marr 1999-2002

you nailed it

[JurisDictum]

Raiding doesn't suck on p99. Raiding sucks in old EQ (pre-velious). The dragons with 32k hp are not the challenge...its logging on in time. There aren't enough targets either.

[Arteker]

Raiding doesn't suck on p99. Raiding sucks in old EQ (pre-velious). The dragons with 32k hp are not the challenge...its logging on in time. There aren't enough targets either.

that is why velious was the first real expansion with the idea to provide a end game to the growing population seeking higher and different challanges.

Veeshan peaks wich is the zone make cry alot of people was just a prototype of the incoming raid zones wich u later would find in velious.

[Doktoor]

It blows me away that training would be allowed in ANY zone for ANY reason... that's just gay.

This isn't Nam, this is Everquest. There are rules.

[Ephirith]

This isn't Nam, this is Everquest. There are rules.

http://i.imgur.com/Q3hv82t.jpg

[spoils]

You can't, it won't happen. There are way too many people/guilds wanting to do this content (read get the loot for their paper-doll).

It can't be 'fixed'. We can't introduce Velious two years ago. We can't take back the decade of analysis of EverQuest and the knowledge of every single item and every single quest.

In classic times raid strategies were guarded, yes they leaked out eventually, but it took the intrepid. You went after that boss night after night. You died repeatedly, you learned, and maybe, just maybe you triumphed.

There is no "raiding scene" here. Only a pharming scene. You read how-to's on everything and consider yourselves elite players because you can run fastest to a mob.

Raiding on P99 is PvP. It's not classic. We all remember Gornaire running around DL for weeks. Some of you remember seeing guilds try to kill her. Some fewer of us remember trying it in person (and dying, and dying until we got it right.) She lived 19 minutes Saturday. She fell to the guild that got there first, the one that got the people in the zone and to her the fastest. It's just PvP organizational skills, it has nothing to do with gaming skills.

Raiding is NOT reading a Wiki and killing a mob that's been killed a thousand times before and executing a well-known strategy freely available to all. You are just lewt pharming because you weren't good enough (or old enough, or both) back in the day.


Ezrick Blackpriest
<Black Company>
Tarew Marr 1999-2002


/endthread

[Estolcles]

http://i.imgur.com/Q3hv82t.jpg

Gotta love some Steve Buschemi.

[Babayaaga]

You can't, it won't happen. There are way too many people/guilds wanting to do this content (read get the loot for their paper-doll).

It can't be 'fixed'. We can't introduce Velious two years ago. We can't take back the decade of analysis of EverQuest and the knowledge of every single item and every single quest.

In classic times raid strategies were guarded, yes they leaked out eventually, but it took the intrepid. You went after that boss night after night. You died repeatedly, you learned, and maybe, just maybe you triumphed.

There is no "raiding scene" here. Only a pharming scene. You read how-to's on everything and consider yourselves elite players because you can run fastest to a mob.

Raiding on P99 is PvP. It's not classic. We all remember Gornaire running around DL for weeks. Some of you remember seeing guilds try to kill her. Some fewer of us remember trying it in person (and dying, and dying until we got it right.) She lived 19 minutes Saturday. She fell to the guild that got there first, the one that got the people in the zone and to her the fastest. It's just PvP organizational skills, it has nothing to do with gaming skills.

Raiding is NOT reading a Wiki and killing a mob that's been killed a thousand times before and executing a well-known strategy freely available to all. You are just lewt pharming because you weren't good enough (or old enough, or both) back in the day.


Ezrick Blackpriest
<Black Company>
Tarew Marr 1999-2002

Hey you still in touch with Isriam? Is he on P99 in any form?