war epic proc bugged?

[spoils]

i hear rumors it's bugged...any confirmation of this? that the aggro sucks on it?

[Luchino]

It's not snap agro so I hate it. I use other weapons in fast paced groups.

[spoils]

Shouldn't it be snap aggro? I'm told two rmoy or botbde destroys epic in aggro holding capabilities

[Luchino]

You would think. Its more like an agro DoT. Once i'm fighting shit for a while with it i wont lose agro until others have less than 20%hp. I use the VP toys on anything that's not a raid mob.

[spoils]

issat classic?

[heartbrand]

I use mallets on all VP shit but in groups weapons like feverblade / blade of the shissar / the froglok poison one all seem to be instant aggro whereas the warrior epic proc does not.

[Splorf22]

From everything I understand about the hate list, aggro is aggro. If a mob turns to face you after a proc, it's because pre-proc you were 2+ on the hatelist and after the proc you improved to #1.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/wiki/eq:Items_Aggro_Procs has a list of what all the hate values should be. Stuns are 400 hate and direct damage is 1, so any Ykesha should be 475 hate per proc. Veldrak's Shortblade should be 579, and the Blade of Strategy should be 600 hate. Unfortunately the table doesn't have an entry for poison based weapons like the Blade of the Black Dragon Eye.

If you think the epic proc is bugged, it would be fairly easy to measure exactly how much hate the epic gives. You'll need 3 people:

1. A puller to tag the mob (so you don't have to worry about initial aggro)
2. Once in camp, the warrior melees until the epic procs (I suggest fists in the offhand)
3. As soon as the warrior gets aggro, he stops attacking and another class attacks without proccing weapons weapons until HE draws aggro.

Swing (hit or miss) aggro is weapon-damage + damage-bonus, so our epic warrior gets 25 hate for each primary swing and 1 hate for each offhand punch. Let's say we have an epic/sos monk for our third man, who gets 20 hate for each primary punch and 17 hate for each offhand crush. If for example our stats looked like:

War: 14 swings, 8 punches, 1 epic proc
Mnk: 30 punches, 18 crushes

we could write: 14*25+8*1+PROC = 30*20 + 18*17 which implies in this imaginary test (if I am doing my mental math right) that the proc in question is 548 hate. In fact it is easy to do this test for any proccing weapon and determine its exact hate value.

[Freakish]

You used more than three numbers.
You keep using that word "easy".
I do not think it means what you think it means.

[A1551]

he means easy vs something like determining how well AC works here...because in comparison that is pretty easy!

[Freakish]

I know. It just reminded me of my college calculus professor. "This is easy! I've taught it for 30 years. Why don't you understand?!"

[Gaffin Deeppockets]

Always pulled snap aggro over epic wars with x2 rmoy, dont care about your calculations, i know that shit always snapped aggro over epics in grps or on a small raid.

[spoils]

So is it a bug or working as intended and classic? I confused...

[Luchino]

Hard to say. Maybe back then not everyone would blow their load on a mob as soon as it was pulled and let the warrior get agro. I'm sure those people existed but you would quickly identify them as baddies and distance yourself from them. Also, when you created a rogue they didn't spawn in their starting city with a Ragebringer, as they do here.

The Epic procs 100DD and then the agro DoT. The dot lasts about 2 minutes i think? I seldom see the message that is has wore off, but I have. Anyways, that means you just did 100 agro to a mob, with x per tick. You are easily going to be surpassed by an enchanter that instant tashes, or a shaman that instant slows. It's irritating and happens every time, which is why I use VP weapons. With the VP snap agro, you do it all at once (579), and it can compete with this fast paced game were trying to force upon eq, that we have probably learned from WoW or whatever else.

[Raavak]

This is Classic. Knights were almost preferred exp grinding tanks with disease cloud/stun.

[spoils]

thanks for the input...wow so war epic=shit, except for stats...

why the fuck is anyone gonna pay 500k for the goddamn green scale on top of racing for maestro, on top of all the other shit?

oh wait that's right...dem lightsabres! pew pew!

ugh...i'm gonna need to get Botbde...

[Splorf22]

Warrior A Warrior B APH APD ASH ASD AHATE BPH BPD BSH BSD BHATE Diff Spell Estimate
Epic+Star of the Guardian Dagas+Ixi Sceptre 22 14 21 14 844 46 11 31 15 1477 633 Rage of Vallon 600
Yak Scim+Ixi Sceptre GuardianStar+Epic 14 8 0 15 266 28 14 14 14 896 630 Ykesha 575
Veridix+Ixi Sceptre Dagas+Ixi Sceptre 27 13 16 15 888 56 11 26 15 1622 734 Force Shock 679
SarnakWarhammer+Shield Ixi Sceptre+Epic 84 9 0 0 1680 56 15 37 14 1974 294 Stun 250
Malevolent RB+Ixi Sceptre Dagas+Ixi Sceptre 16 13 9 15 519 47 11 19 15 1319 800 Froglok Poison 750
Yak Scimitar+Shield Ixi Sceptre+Epic 29 8 0 0 551 27 15 31 15 1167 616 Ykesha 575
2x Disease Cloud Dagas+Ixi Sceptre 0 0 0 0 0 39 11 18 15 1128 1128 Disease Cloud 550
2x Shadow Vortex Dagas+Ixi Sceptre 0 0 0 0 0 40 11 16 15 1120 1120 Shadow Vortex 550
SarnakWarhammer+Shield Ixi Sceptre+Epic 10 9 0 0 200 19 15 13 14 676 476 Stun 400

I got Cucumbers, Dagorn, and Coeur to help me with the test I described earlier in this thread.

Conclusions: I'm not 100% sure this is totally working. All of the results make sense except first one for the Sarnak Warhammer. If I had to guess, I would say:

Stun is 400 aggro
0.0 stun is 500 aggro (no idea why)
Poison aggro is 225 per counter
DD aggro is 1 per point

I don't think there is any aggro dot (although this test would not be able to tell the difference). When I looked up the alla page, multiple people were claiming the warrior epic should have an AC/ATK debuff (but the person who actually parsed spdat.eff in early 2001 just showed the hate and DD; see http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-6905.html and http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=2630). I'm guessing that the difference in "snap aggro" that Luchino notices is mostly due to the increased melee hate of the Feverblade (plus the proc should be a bit better than the epic according to this). If he is higher on the hate list to begin with then when he procs he'll be more likely to jump to the top of the list.

Here's what my sperglord spreadsheet has to say about warrior aggro:

Feverblade/Shissar 87 hate/sec [that's with 11/20 Feverblade even]
Epic/Shissar 80 hate/sec
Veldrak/Veridix 80 hate/sec
Howling Cutlass/Malevolent Runeblade: 79 hate/sec
Blade of the Black Dragon Eye/Ringed Mace of the Ykesha 78 hate/sec
Ringed Mace x2: 70 hate/sec
Epic/Epic 67 hate/sec

None of this is particularly surprising: it basically says you need two of VP/BOTBDE/Red Epic. Also this list is slightly unfair to the Blade of Tactics; most warriors won't hit 255 dex without it or avatar.

[khanable]

Just a thought after I logged off:

On the parses, can you see how long the sarnak warhammer stun lasted for?

first test: 250 hate, did it last 2.5 seconds?
second test: 400 hate, did it last 4 seconds?

wouldn't that be interesting?

edit: I should note that almost everywhere I've looked it lists rage of vallon as a spell that lasts up to 2 minutes

Why is this?

[Luchino]

I should note that almost everywhere I've looked it lists rage of vallon as a spell that lasts up to 2 minutes

Why is this?



Because its an agro over time spell. I kept using the term DoT, poor usage i guess. Also meaning its NOT 600 agro instantly. 100DD (100 agro) and 25 agro per tick for 2 mins.

[khanable]

Because its an agro over time spell. I kept using the term DoT, poor usage i guess. Also meaning its NOT 600 agro instantly. 100DD (100 agro) and 25 agro per tick for 2 mins.

I see

I guess the intent of the warrior epic was to help warriors maintain aggro over time, putting them ahead of rogues/monks

In a time where, like you said, everyone didn't blow their load instantly.. makes sense I guess.

That's a shame to be honest.

[Splorf22]

Because its an agro over time spell. I kept using the term DoT, poor usage i guess. Also meaning its NOT 600 agro instantly. 100DD (100 agro) and 25 agro per tick for 2 mins.

I really do not think this is the case.

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellraw.html?id=1935&source=Live
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellraw.html?id=1741&source=Live
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellraw.html?id=1224&source=Live

[Luchino]

I really do not think this is the case.]

Thats what i take from the spell aspect of the epic. Sounds like i need to duel someone with it equipped and see if there is a spell icon on the opposition when it lands.

If its not a agro over time, then its broke. 500 extra agro instantly should be getting me better results.

[khanable]

Actually, upon further inspection, it would appear the proc is 100dd +500 hate AND a ac/atk debuff, which lasts for 2 minutes.

http://web.archive.org/web/20020827134035/http://www.everlore.com/items/items.asp?IID=250920&mode=show&pg=1&sortby=1

Duel someone and see if their stats go down. Simple.

[Splorf22]

Vonhammer told me that the warrior epic was changed around Luclin. It would make a great deal of sense if it was an AC/ATK debuff during our era and then was changed to add raw hate when they fixed the Blade of Carnage.

Luchino, I like you have seen the worn off messages. I just don't think that necessarily implies it is aggro over time. I think a much better explanation for your results with the Feverblade is that its just a superior aggro weapon: it puts out both more melee and proc hate. Still, I won't say that my test ruled it out.

[khanable]

That would make sense if it was changed in luclin. Because I found these:

http://i.imgur.com/D2hkH6s.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Xj3tHVq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qQrPKGt.jpg
nerf dat hp

[Luchino]

I didnt realize it was ac/atk debuff so that removes my argument. You guys are doing some pretty awesome digging.

[Luchino]

STR:+10/STA:+15/HP:+30/+5 TO ALL SAVES
EFFECT: Rage of Vallon ( Target debuffer spell that reduces HP/AC/ATK by 100/40/11 for about a 2min period )

This version with the 30hp instead of 50hp has no mention of additional agro. Not sure if this is the Luclin version or Kunark version.

Nerfed to lower hp and take away the agro portion of the effect? That doesn't make sense.

[khanable]

http://www.castle-grounds.co.uk/eq/epiclink.htm

The Blade of Stategy Proc is also Fire based, and is 100DD as well reducing a Mobs ATK by 40 and their AC by 11 for 2 minutes.

The Blade of Tactics is a right clickable effect, which increases Dex by 40, ATT by 30, and AC by 12. This also lasts 2 minutes.


The Warriors are also slightly dissapointed with the primary held 1HS, as it at its current ratio, is not as good as currently available weapons (amiditly from places like VP), and cannot keep up the taunt factor that they require. Also the Blade of Tactics is NOT a right click effect, but a proc, and also most importantly, the buffs that it produces do not allow Cleric buffs to stack.

I think the shittier version is the kunark version (from the archive.org link and above link - with less hp, and what appears to be no hate in the proc)

[Luchino]

If that was the case, does that mean were dealing with some hybrid sword? With more hp but no agro proc? Because the proc seems terrible when it comes to agro.

[khanable]

Sak and I did do tests today.. there definitely was a hate proc it seemed.

This is what I am thinking:

Original warrior epics had 30hp, were debuff/buff (I've found a few sources that claim it should be clicky though broken, then at some point a proc, and then at some point worn effect).

I think at some point they were changed to 50hp and the +500 hate was added to the blade of strategy due to warriors being like wtf bro this shit blows nuts.

Now to find out when..

[Splorf22]

Posted this on the bug forums: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1089960#post1089960

[Splorf22]

Edit just for kicks, I plugged the new numbers into my sperglord calculator, and I can see why Furor was pissed. From a pure hate perspective the Blade of Strategy/Tactics combo would rank BELOW the Sarnak Warhammer/Silken Whip! The double VP stun weapons would be about 4% more aggro than even the Epic/Shissar combo that the top level TMO warriors are rocking (although of course less DPS).

That being said, -40ATK is a huge, huge debuff when it lands. And keeping aggro off casters will be substantially easier with lower hate values for their spells.

Overall I'd say its a wash, although losing 40HP on the epic does suck.

[khanable]

So when you duel someone, it doesn't debuff them?

[Splorf22]

So when you duel someone, it doesn't debuff them?

this is a good point actually

edit: just tested this with Mikeo, no AC debuff no ATK debuff.

[spoils]

big up to all of u for the R&D!

makes ya kinda wonder why the hell people pay 500k on green scales...

[khanable]

this is a good point actually

edit: just tested this with Mikeo, no AC debuff no ATK debuff.

K, I'll dump a slew of links showing it should be an AC/ATK debuff into your new thread.

[spoils]

so the war epics are gonna be nerfed if the fix is inputted?

[salimoneus]

Edit just for kicks, I plugged the new numbers into my sperglord calculator, and I can see why Furor was pissed. From a pure hate perspective the Blade of Strategy/Tactics combo would rank BELOW the Sarnak Warhammer/Silken Whip! The double VP stun weapons would be about 4% more aggro than even the Epic/Shissar combo that the top level TMO warriors are rocking (although of course less DPS).

That being said, -40ATK is a huge, huge debuff when it lands. And keeping aggro off casters will be substantially easier with lower hate values for their spells.

Overall I'd say its a wash, although losing 40HP on the epic does suck.

I've been using Sarnak/Whip for some time and have been pretty happy with the aggro that combo generates. I've never charted it out or done any type of analysis, but it's really not a bad way to go considering you can get both for around 7k. The high delay and -5AC on the whip are drawbacks I'm not crazy about, but I think there are a few other choices and no-drops that could probably take the whip's place and hold their own.

Recently picked up rmoy and will be giving that a try over the next few weeks. I'm not convinced the yak proc is going to be anything more than marginally better than the sarnak stun, and the ratio is pretty close to the same. Hard to think it could be worth the 50k+ premium you're going to pay over a sarnak, unless of course you've got plat to burn. I'm also not crazy about moving to a higher delay weapon in main hand, although it's only 2 points. And it just seems wrong to put a 55k weapon in offhand when it costs like 10x your mh weap?

I have heard several (new to them) epic warriors complain about the seemingly mediocre hate generation of the epic, which I actually don't mind hearing as I don't find myself sweating getting the epic as much. Sure I'll make every attempt to strive for it, but I'm not going to lose (much) sleep over it. That and I'm about 500k and a hand short atm.

Interesting thread though, been wondering why this hasn't really come up much. I guess it's just one of those "classic" things and not a whole lot to do about it.

[Arteker]

That would make sense if it was changed in luclin. Because I found these:

http://i.imgur.com/D2hkH6s.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Xj3tHVq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qQrPKGt.jpg
nerf dat hp

that hp upgrade isnt from luclin but 2hander patch update in late velious . several weapons where changed , epic in this case was because the 2hander version stats where rised up. elethia had a post with the info relevant to most of the original ratios of velious weapons+ stats .

look at original primal weapons and the revamped ones and i dont mean prismatics.

[Arteker]

our MT always ditched epic(and it was first epic war made in solusek ro) in favour of his loved gladius(private joke for the verix and veldrak swords) for maintank often used shishar but he disliked alot dot based weapons.

when velious hit , he used veldrak + willsapper till we got him, a salandrite dagger wich used together with willsapper, then later replaced both with sods.

he keep the sods till replaced by hategiver +bloodfrenzy, that was before we realized boc was aswell changed , it used to be a glorified switblade of zek with lamy graphic.

that day we found it out guild bank cried alot since we sold 2 of them for shitty cash.

[Arteker]

btw thanks loraen for take ur time and be patient with me lame english , usualy i do this kind of stuff with elethia since his english is wayyyy better than mine.

most people dont take me seriusly because it .

[Luchino]

great work all

[spoils]

So war strat would look something closer to mallet 5x, then epic wait for debuff, then back to yaks/vp/botbde and back to red epic as needed?

Assuming mob is still alive? Raid mob speaking

[pharmakos]

when using 2x Blood Points, i have to be careful in order to not steal agro off our guild's 60 Epic warrior. i've been WTFing about it for awhile. epic proc being bugged would make sense to me.

[Splorf22]

when using 2x Blood Points, i have to be careful in order to not steal agro off our guild's 60 Epic warrior. i've been WTFing about it for awhile. epic proc being bugged would make sense to me.

This goes back to what the original community thought. 14+11 = 25/24; the blood points are 10+11 = 21/21. So from a melee hate perspective they are very close. And then you only get 2PPM because you have no proc in the offhand. So if you get some lucky rolls with DA/DW and a few lifetap procs and the epic warrior is a bit unlucky, you'll pull aggro. Over the long term the blood points can't compare though; my sperglord spreadsheet suggests 64 vs 49 hate/sec.

At least to me, the takeaway for this thread is that currently and after any potential changes the Blade of Strategy is still the best weapon for the primary slot overall. The aggro is about the same as VP/BOTBDE and clearly better than the Sarnak Warhammer or Ringed Mace (which isn't all that fast itself). Plus you get 120 hitpoints, 5/all resists, and 10 strength; unless you are an ogre and went full sta, you can probably find a way to shuffle your gear to get all of those hitpoints. What sucks is the Blade of Tactics. This is kinda rough for warriors because it means not only do you need the epic but you need a VP offhand as well. But it does make me feel that my nearly 1M contribution to the TMO guildbank was reasonably well spent :p

[pharmakos]

so epic just takes longer to build the hate, but it ends up building more of it?

sort of a bummer really. it would be nice if the DPS could jump in ASAP.

[Nogdar]

Lifetap procs from Bloodpoint should be close to 0 aggro, because lifetap spells are close to 0 aggro. So if you're drawing aggro from epic wars with blood points, I'd say there is a problem indeed

[pharmakos]

because lifetap spells are close to 0 aggro.

that's just a myth.

[Nogdar]

that's just a myth.

Why? We could test it like we tested DC/SV with Loraen and Cucumbers and Coeur if you want. But as someone who has casted a few lifetaps in his EQ career I can tell you they're very very little aggro. If I have to jump in to save someone by taking aggro off them, if Taunt won't succeed, spamming DC/SV/DC/SV will work eventually no matter how many tons of hate they got. With lifetaps I'll be oom and they'll be dead long before the mob gives a shit about me. I can tell you that...

[pharmakos]

i've cast a few lifetaps in my career too. lifetaps may not be the absolute best choice for agro, but they produce much more than 0 hate.

[spoils]

i love this thread! however it does make me wonder if i should just take my time to get my epic...i have the green scale already...but ifffff it kinda sucks compared being able to get a BoTBDE+otheryummygear...might be worth it to just unload it?

i guess the question is...do i wanna go Epic+RMoY or Botbde+RMoY

[Splorf22]

I would assume lifetaps are 1 hate per damage done, so 80 for a blood point proc. It's pretty small compared to the 750 for a BOTBDE, but not zero. I'd imagine as an SK Dagorn barely noticed his lifetap aggro in comparison to disease cloud and shadow vortex.

[pharmakos]

I can actually hold agro decently well with just dual Blood Points though, so I feel like they generate more hate than just that. I realize this is just anecdotal, though. Perhaps I'll do some legit tests sometime (or help someone else with their tests).

[Luchino]

So war strat would look something closer to mallet 5x, then epic wait for debuff, then back to yaks/vp/botbde and back to red epic as needed?

Assuming mob is still alive? Raid mob speaking

2 hammers 3 or 4 if you don't proc in the first 30 seconds. Ill be keeping my vp stuff on full time.

[spoils]

yeaaaa...i may just get rid of my green scale after all this parsing happened...gonna give it another week before i decide that i should acquire items that don't drop anymore

[Nogdar]

Well we should test lifetaps as we did with other spells to sort it out, i'm genuinely curious :) I also assumed until now it was 1 hate for 1 lifetap point. Maybe it's more, like 2 per (1 for damage, 1 for the heal).

Worth a shot!

[khanable]

I'd be down to test that. I'd also like to see what the Fangol proc does in terms of hate.

[Xaeophi]

Sounds like ya should have went dark elf warrior with maxed Dex. Red sword proc 5x in a row. GL getting aggro off meh!

[koros]

Rage of Vallon has a duration, but it's just an insta +500 hate and 100 damage, maybe they accidentally coded it to do 25 hate per tick?

[spoils]

Rage of Vallon has a duration, but it's just an insta +500 hate and 100 damage, maybe they accidentally coded it to do 25 hate per tick?

according to the recent findings, the +500 hate was an upgrade beyond p99's timeline...so most of that is pretty moot at this point...

apparently it's supposed to be an AC/ATK debuff, which within itself should have some sicknasty aggro

also we've established that hate generation back then was different and somewhat based on the mob's HP...which could be a HUGE upgrade to all wars...and deathsentence to casters/anyone who decides to use a proc based weapon

[khanable]

Rage of Vallon has a duration, but it's just an insta +500 hate and 100 damage, maybe they accidentally coded it to do 25 hate per tick?

Sak's tests wouldn't rule that out -- but it's more likely that it has the duration because that is just the way it is. On live, when it originally had the debuff, it lasted 2 minutes. They took away the debuff portion and just made it +500hate and 100dd, but left the 'duration' aspect in. This became problematic later on when AA's introduced an ability to have a critical proc -- but it didn't work with any weapons that had a duration. AFAIK it still has a duration on live.

It should be all 500 hate up front. I suppose we can do some testing to verify this. If it is doing x hate per tick then it's not only not correct for the era (should be a debuff), it's also not working as it is on live.

From what we learned in the bugs forum -- aggro up until Feb 21st, 2001, should be stupid easy to obtain. The values should be higher than what we can see from Alla/other sites that measured after 2001. As it is now, it seems these values ARE higher.

The change in 2001 capped the amount of hate a debuff can do -- which I assume is for both spells and procs. It has some sort of HP component that made it insanely OP in velious against high-HP mobs.

What I am guessing is this: the debuff generated decent aggro, not quite as good as +500hate, but fairly close. It may or may not have been resistible, generating no hate. For some reason, warriors back then thought it sucked. Velious gets released and they need to nerf it, due to it likely being way over powered. +500 hate was settled on, which may have been inline with what the debuff had been doing, or it may have been slightly higher to appease the bitching wars, OR it may actually be somewhat lower, figuring they did "nerf" hate at that point.

[koros]

ac/atk debuff wasn't sick nasty aggro on live (but it wasn't bad), except against raid mobs early in Velious. Regardless, 600 hate should not be easily outdone by every other weapon in the book.

[JayN]

I am fairly sure whenever blade of carnage received its hate proc addition whenever that was, was when they changed it to hate rather then an ac/atk debuff. It should probably be the OP in Velious version by now -ac/atk.

[koros]

Aggro should be high for debuff spells only (on boss mobs), they scaled as a % of mob hp. Stuns and such did not scale in this manner.

Debuffs include slows/counters/-any stat or resist.

[khanable]

Correct. So the warrior epic shouldn't be as good as it is now (maybe equal on big boy mobs?), but will likely be insanely OP in velious for a little while.

[koros]

I am fairly sure whenever blade of carnage received its hate proc addition whenever that was, was when they changed it to hate rather then an ac/atk debuff. It should probably be the OP in Velious version by now -ac/atk.

It was changed in the aggro patch early Velious. I used to parse the spdat extensively and i distinctly remember it being the opposite of jolt during Velious.

[khanable]

I am fairly sure whenever blade of carnage received its hate proc addition whenever that was, was when they changed it to hate rather then an ac/atk debuff. It should probably be the OP in Velious version by now -ac/atk.

Do you know when this took place? Wasn't it near Luclin?

We have someone posting on Alla on Feb 28th 2001 listing the spdat.eff data showing the proc was changed to +500hate, which is basically a week after the patch was introduced to change up hate.

[koros]

Correct. So the warrior epic shouldn't be as good as it is now, but will likely be insanely OP in velious for a little while.

Correct, and casters attempting to debuff should get smacked down until procs happen.

[spoils]

ac/atk debuff wasn't sick nasty aggro on live (but it wasn't bad), except against raid mobs early in Velious. Regardless, 600 hate should not be easily outdone by every other weapon in the book.

so...given the findings, Epic really should be better than Botbde/rmoy/vp, etc...specifically with high HP mobs...but it is plausible that those non-epic/vp weapons could be better than epic in a group setting with low hp mobs.

hopefully we can all pool a conclusion, with proof, and see if GM's will change things...

It appears this could turn into a HUGE patch.

But yes, I definitely remember on velious raids, chanters saying in guildchat "ohay gaiz, i'm gonna tash, have a click stick ready for me". ahhhh it's all coming back!

I definitely remember wars having to say "hold up guys, let me get aggro, so only clerics heal me until i proc a couple times, then wait for me BURN message"

ahhh memories!

[khanable]

I'm not convinced it'll be better than vp stun weapons even on 32k hp mobs. Probably about right in line with what it is currently at.

On group shit it'll likely not be great (this goes along with one of the links I found where the complaint was it was bad for groups). Come velious.. yea.. overpowered. What I am thinking is {base value} + maxhp/x, where x is some arbitrary idiotic number the intern came up with that works out OK for old world/kunark mobs but goes to shit on velious mobs.

Maybe some nerdy enchanter did some hate tests on Tash back in this time period (after many of them got pissed about constantly dying on velious encounters?)

I'll need to start digging for that info. If we can find a disgruntled enchanter trying to come up with an approximate hate equation for debuffs/slows we may be in business here.

Sak you should do some tests with your enchanter to see where debuffs are currently sitting :)

[pharmakos]

if Tash is uber agro in Velious, maybe warriors should all pick up Journeyman's Walking Sticks? =p

[spoils]

it's not so much that tash is uber aggro itself...it's more because aggro mechanics of spells were partly based on mob total HP...therefore on group shit chanters could tash and be mostly safe...on raids...it's tash and die basically...even after a few procs, it was still the attitude of chanters gonna die at least once in an encounter

[Vadd]

I remember Obsidian Shard(s) being THE noob War weapon of choice on this server back in '10.... "Mini-Yaks," lol.

But anyway, what's Obsidian Shatter?
30 dmg DD + AC debuff?

[Arteker]

most chanters moans and shamans moans did come from lesser guilds.

most guilds didint used mallets, and had to rely in war to generate enough agro wich often didint happen enough in time to counter the cast of tash malo.

many people didint have the gear of the basics to allow a proper agro for the war. and most chanters would go down easily because with 2 hits low hps then crush crunch ouch /guild rez me fucking tash .......

shamans hps probed to be better for slowing debuffin .

[Xiek]

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