What is the point of a bard?

[Getsmurfed]

Feels as if a bard only shines in small groups, and even then most groups aren't willing to take on a bard for fear of acquiring a "wasted" spot. I rolled a bard as my main, and have reached high 50s. Currently working on my epic, and doubting the reasons I rolled a bard. They're supposed to be a high utility class. But some play in the raid scene it feels as if I do nothing useful in a raid scenario barring extra mana regen and resists. I rolled a class that is completely useless to solo with and only useful in the rare raid scenario. Will I only be able to fully play my class in the small group scenarios? Keeping in mind this is my first time ever playing EQ, and I feel like I am more than competent at my given utilization. I just feel wasted in anything more than 5-6 people.

In the current game status it seems like bards are completely useless outside mana song, and MR for the rare fight that does something resistable. I know that a bard is indispensable for dragon fights, but the current state of the server is such that getting one is a cold day in hell that TMO or some other zerg guild hasn't poop socked / bothered poop socking the fight.


TL;DR are they useless until Velious barring a few encounters for resistance in the raid scene?

[senna]

To PL all the other useful classes

[Sarius]

A bards roll in raids is resists, mana song, and OOS (if it is even in game at this point). That is the class you rolled. A good bard is always welcome in a group with me, as they are the most versitile class in the game. Nothing better than having a speedy bard chain pull in an outdoor zone!

[Tecmos Deception]

They are the opposite of completely useless... kind of.

They're useful in many different ways. Unfortunately none of the things they are good at (except for mana twisting and resist songs) are better than what a shaman or enchanter or melee dps or healer can do. So in a raid where you've got a couple chanters and a slew of wisdom casters and a bunch of rogues/monks DPSing... none of the things a bard does really seem to make a big difference (again, unless you need mana/resists).

If you make a point of forming groups of casters who need your mana song, you'll have a lot of happy casters in your raids, assuming you aren't needed to do resists for a tank or whatever.


Once you have your epic you can proc it and twist some songs that give awesome +attack, which will make the melee DPS drool over you as much as twisting mana songs makes the casters drool.

[Sarius]

To your point tho, a bard is not useful against most Kunark bosses that get killed by an over-whelmingly large raid force. A bard can certainly be the difference between life and death for smaller raids tho (provided they can get a target).

[Aaron]

I always ask for a bard in my group on raids. A well-played bard is pretty legit.

[Getsmurfed]

So it was pretty stupid to roll a bard as a main, it'd make a good alt for utility is pretty much what I'm catching.

[contemptor]

So it was pretty stupid to roll a bard as a main, it'd make a good alt for utility is pretty much what I'm catching.
Bards can awesome if played well. Can save an entire group on some dragon AEs. Can still CC pretty well. Some of the best non-stop groups I have had in seb have been with bards.

[Sarius]

Then you're not reading, what are you trying to accomplish with your character?

[lecompte]

... I like bards in groups too -- they can be great pulls and decent cc.

[Tecmos Deception]

So it was pretty stupid to roll a bard as a main, it'd make a good alt for utility is pretty much what I'm catching.

I didn't mean to give you that impression.

I dunno. I guess I'm bad at explaining it.

Bards can do all kinds of stuff (melee, cc, mana, regen, haste, slow, pull, freaking damage shields and runes and dispels and resists, tons of stuff), but at the same time the things they're best at are incredibly specialized (stacking attack songs in melee group, stacking mana songs in caster groups, stacking resist songs on AE bosses).

None of the specialized things really have a place in a normal group because you very rarely have 4-5 casters who are in desperate need of mana such that ALL you do is twist mana songs, and you very rarely have 4-5 melee such that it is the best use of your time to sing attack songs, and normal mobs aren't so hard to resist (or so important to resist) that you need to spend your time making sure resist songs are up and never dropping. In a raid, even just a 3- or 4-group raid, the odds are pretty good that you can be doing one of these things though.

[Getsmurfed]

Has nothing to do with the impression you've given, you've all confirmed what I thought to be true. A bard main can only truly solo by swarming which can be a reputation killer, it tends to be a pain in the ass to obtain groups because you pick such a niche role, and in raids you're around for dragons, a random fight here, and mana song.

[Deuces]

People prefer them over rangers and paladins at least :)

[Ajkuhuun]

To be awesome. Observe the bards in the picture below;

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/Arshissblade/Star_Wars_Band_by_Horus1780_zps609aa732.jpg

[fastboy21]

not sure what your disappointment is...you rolled a utility class and got...a utility class.

bards can't solo top named mobs like chanters, necros, and shamans (you'll never see one on the solo challenge rankings).

you do get track, speed, resists. you can CC, haste, slow, lull. you can "fit" in almost any group set up. you are needed on raids, even if "only" to do resists and mana.

bards are also the most "twitch" class in EQ imo. you have to actively play to play well, even in mundane situations (no spamming back stab or going afk to med between nukes). this makes the gap between shit bards and awesome bards huge, and almost entirely dependent on the player at the computer (not the gear).

doesn't sound like anything to complain about rlly.

you are far better off in balance then some other classes. if you want to be an all-star in EQ bard might not be the most shining class when it comes to being visible on raids, but you're certainly not worthless.

btw, bards are one of the classes that got better with time. classic server is not the kindest to bards in that respect. SoL and PoP are great expansions to be playing a bard...even still, you are a pretty cool class imo.

[mtb tripper]

bard is a very good addition to the group if they are good songweaver

[BiscuitBandito]

Has nothing to do with the impression you've given, you've all confirmed what I thought to be true. A bard main can only truly solo by swarming which can be a reputation killer, it tends to be a pain in the ass to obtain groups because you pick such a niche role, and in raids you're around for dragons, a random fight here, and mana song.

Bards on live were pretty rare in the Kunark and Velious eras, based on what I saw. They seemed to be played by people who truly enjoyed playing them, ups and downs included. There seems to be a large amount of bards on p99 who discover they're really easy to level and/or twink, but dismayed when they can't always find a spot.

Not saying you're one of them, but the added competition probably doesn't help.

If you want a "always have a spot, regardless of situation" you are better off with another class.

If you just love the hell out of bard, flaws and all, then keep playing. Things get better with the epic, and you'll eventually find some people to love you.

[indiscriminate_hater]

I rolled a class that is completely useless to solo with and only useful in the rare raid scenario

I don't mean to sound condescending, but have you actually tried soloing something with your bard, or given a decent effort in a group? Or have you just been AOE kiting your way up through the levels?

If you have looked at every single bard song available to you and still can't find a way to be useful in any solo or group situation, in any zone, then perhaps you should re-roll. During the lower levels I was able to take down mobs 12 levels higher than me by finding clever ways to use my songs (hint: you don't need to cast a single song on the mob you're trying to kill).

A competent bard is pretty damn useful in groups. However, it does take a bit of effort to be truly efficient as a bard, something which most people on this server didn't sign up for. If you're not pulling via snare, lull, mesmerize, charm, etc., then you're hanging back with your group and absolutely blasting your casters with mana regen (1 cantana, 4x cassindra's, rinse and repeat).

Switch in niv's melody via a clicky BoH proc for extra hp regen as well. During the fight, spam slow, haste, attack/str, and even cantata to keep the mana flowing. Resists if necessary. Spam mesmerize and brusco's/denon's bereavement while whacking away with your Melodious Truncheon's to interrupt casters. Mesmerize adds or charm them to whack at your target. Dispel. Fear. Mana Drain. Throw in your AOE DD nuke if shit gets ugly, or drop your group invincibility song to give you time to bail in event of emergencies.

A bard main can only truly solo by swarming which can be a reputation killer, it tends to be a pain in the ass to obtain groups because you pick such a niche role, and in raids you're around for dragons, a random fight here, and mana song.

Playing a niche role could not be farther from the truth, as evidenced by my previous paragraph.

If you haven't discovered charm killing by now -- which I confirmed at level 59 is the fastest exp for a bard at the level, including BW kites -- then I don't believe you've ever actually played your character the way it was meant to be played. Take a break from the AOE killing and go experience the fascinating life of a bard.

/rant

[Valere]

I don't mean to sound condescending, but
If you haven't discovered charm killing by now -- which I confirmed at level 59 is the fastest exp for a bard at the level, including BW kites -- then I don't believe you've ever actually played your character the way it was meant to be played. Take a break from the AOE killing and go experience the fascinating life of a bard.

:rolleyes:

[indiscriminate_hater]

By the way, old-school swarm kiting -- where a swarm of like-minded mobs who socially aggro on your pet and beat it down -- isn't entirely broken on this server. There are ways around the initial lack of aggro transfer. Try it out and you'll see what I mean.

[contemptor]

not sure what your disappointment is...you rolled a utility class and got...a utility class.

bards can't solo top named mobs like chanters, necros, and shamans (you'll never see one on the solo challenge rankings).

you do get track, speed, resists. you can CC, haste, slow, lull. you can "fit" in almost any group set up. you are needed on raids, even if "only" to do resists and mana.

bards are also the most "twitch" class in EQ imo. you have to actively play to play well, even in mundane situations (no spamming back stab or going afk to med between nukes). this makes the gap between shit bards and awesome bards huge, and almost entirely dependent on the player at the computer (not the gear).

doesn't sound like anything to complain about rlly.

you are far better off in balance then some other classes. if you want to be an all-star in EQ bard might not be the most shining class when it comes to being visible on raids, but you're certainly not worthless.

btw, bards are one of the classes that got better with time. classic server is not the kindest to bards in that respect. SoL and PoP are great expansions to be playing a bard...even still, you are a pretty cool class imo.
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=799603&highlight=arconis#post799603 !

[justin2090]

Bards and rangers are like the Tim Tebo's of EQ. Never gonna be that super bowl quality dps you need but the intangibles are off the chart. Mez/root , snares, sow / selo's and both are excellent pullers.

[Getsmurfed]

Yeah, I'm not really looking to draw hate, I'm just looking at a realistic view of what bards can do as a main character. I'm not going to be the most sought after class for groups, and soloing yes it's possible but is it practical? As a noob to EQ trying to experience the game, I'd be better served rolling a different class to truly feel the strengths of each specialized role. Don't get me wrong, I'm a former hardcore WoW player, I had countless server firsts, blah blah no one cares because it doesn't matter here, I'm down for a challenge but at the end of the day I'm kind of surprised as to how many external factors I'm subject to as a bard. If a group has a puller, and an enchanter am I really going to be useful as a last spot filler? Sure for mana, or haste / str / dps increases if the people in the group aren't 3rd gen characters with 8 fungis and a rogue epic at level 1. As a true newcomer to EQ, and starting fresh on a server that's what 3 years stagnant a bard isn't an ideal fresh start.

I grew up with World of Warcraft and kind of got used to "carrying" people. As a druid in the early expansions you were kind of in the same boat as a bard....You had massively utility without very much specialization. There, however, it's very easy for a single person to make up for a huge lack of DPS, or healing, or tanking, or CC....A single player had a much larger effect it feels than here.

So I guess most of my problem is more of an issue with the game. I'm spoiled being able to play a utility role, and then be able to solo, DPS well, whatever else I want. Goes hand in hand with how easy WoW is compared to EQ.

[-Catherin-]

This thread is amusing and proof that most people just don't get bards and what they are truly capable of, even most people that play bards :D

[fastboy21]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=799603&highlight=arconis#post799603 !

very nice. like i said, without even knowing this person, to make that kill list with a bard can only mean one thing...one hell of a player. good bards are very very rare and great to have around.

mediocre bards are a dime a dozen, and sit afk singing mana song at raids :p

[Sarius]

It really depends on setting and circumstances. In any dungeon, I would love to have a bard in my group when shit hits the fan. Some of the saves a bard can pull off are legendary and spectacular. Everybody expects and enchanter to be able to keep 4+ mobs CC'd, not many people expect it from a bard.

[Getsmurfed]

This thread is amusing and proof that most people just don't get bards and what they are truly capable of, even most people that play bards :D

I think most people are misunderstanding why I'm even asking what the point of bards are. I'm more than capable of running multiple mezzes, I generally actually charm and triple mez while spinning Breath of Harmony procs in filler. I have ended up pulling instances with harmony, snares, and saved my groups by kiting adds. I'm not saying bards are god awful and entirely useless. I am asking for validation that bards are truly limited in a raid scene....Did I not emphasize that enough?

[Zolene]

Thankfully someone already composed a whole song about your plight. (http://web.archive.org/web/20030417164712/http://www.eqdiva.com/humor/manaman.asp)

[Sarius]

Most classes are pretty limited in a raid scene, why do you need a fact validated?

[-Catherin-]

and I think you completely misunderstood my post :D

the majority of people answering your question don't seem to know the class very well.

bards are valid in raids. very much so

[sanforce]

Bards are extremely useful at high levels, can solo well, PL well ($ maker), and pretty much rock in any group (not exp groups). You can easily take a Bard to 60 with cloth armor and instruments from the guild merchant. I think it was a great starting class for you.

Then again, they are quite a bit of work. I'm level 60 and only really raid with my bard because twisting for hours on end in a loot group just isn't worth it. I prefer a lazy class for grouping and my bard for raiding.

[Splorf22]

Bards are extremely useful in almost all situations. They are utterly fantastic in groups (only enchanters are better). They are great on raids (pulls, mana pumps, resists - try fighting the spiroc lord without bard MR). They are even solid at farming - Culprit being one of the best there.

I played a bard to L50 (ok, I had a fungi and some twink gear) and always got compliments. 'blah blah bards are so op blah blah'. If you don't feel like you are kicking ass on your bard, you are doing it wrong.

[Adolphus]

I think the pitfall that both the OP and (some) of the responders are falling into here is in plain sight: Bard versus what?

What is the OP comparing the Bard too exactly? What are his expectations of the class versus his perception of the other classes? So far, his only mention of Bard relative to anything has been World of Warcraft. He hasn't actually leveled another class, according to his own words, to truly understand what makes him viable and special.

Like some have mentioned before: Bard is truly the most difficult, deep and complex class that there is in classic EQ. It's a class that takes real skill. And Bard's can solo far better than many classes if played well. Far better.

I have a couple high level Rogue's and a Warrior and I can't solo for shit. I have a strict "role" in raids that only allows me to do one thing and one thing only. I would absolutely kill to be able to play a high level Bard for solo-challenge, raid viability and utility in all types of groups. That is my dream character. Unfortunately, my hands won't allow for me endure the necessary song twists to be viable.

Honestly OP, it's possible that Bard isn't for you. However, you have made several statements that demonstrate a lack of understanding the class. If your complaint is that you can't solo certain mobs on the Bard - then you've pigeonholed yourself into only two classes in this game: Shaman and Enchanter. And even for both of those classes, they can't always solo the same mobs and they certainly can't solo every mob in the game. Some solo-challenges are better for Shaman than Enchanter and vice-verse. If I were you, I'd read up on Bard - ask for tips and tricks and give it another shot before you succumb to rolling another main because you think Bard isn't viable, when it is (in my mind) the most viable class overall in the game.

[Weekapaug]

The EQ Bard is the shining exemplary example of the old thing about the player making the class. More than any other class how you play and how much you improvise using your ridiculously vast skillset will dictate how wanted and needed you will be. Rarely does a group ever say "Hey let's fill that last spot with a bard." What you want them to say is "Hey let's fill that last spot with Getsmurfed, he is awesome." As they used to ask on the old class forums, are you a rockstar or a one hit wonder?

Some of this thread is painful to read. Yes every class that does the same things you do, do them better. You do realize that everything you do stacks? Your mana song stacks with Clarity and, when we get them, mana regen items. Same goes for regen. And haste. And resists. Etc. Your charms and mezzes arent as good as an enchanter but, then, you are wearing plate and can take a few hits, making you arguably safer and better CC and dps from charmed mobs. You aren't a tank but you can easily pull aggro and off-tank in a pinch. You aren't DPS but you do reasonable melee dps and shitloads of indirect dps via the enhancements you bring to the dps classes in your group. I'll take a talented bard puller over a monk any day. You have lull, selos, can take a hit and can charm and mez if you get a bad pull. Or kite whole groups of mobs out of a camp and highsun them back to the group to kill. Etc Etc Etc..... AND you do 99% of it with no mana usage. Your only downtime is because you need to rest your twisting hand.

Solo not practical? First, you do need to realize that in EQ just being able to solo at all is a privlege that not all classes get. For those that can, soloing usually consists of killing a mob, maybe two, then sitting for 10 mins medding, unless you are one of a handful of classes that shine as soloers. Most who do, do it because it moves the bar, not because it is particularly fast or fun. When I was kiting with my druid thru the 20s and 30s I could only stand it because I could afk and do other things between kites medding. And I was making mad cash killing giants. Back in the day on live I did it with a wiz and if it wasn't my first main I would have gone insane had I known better. My point is, this....there are classes that can't solo at all. There are classes that can solo but its situational and can be iffy. And for most classes who solo its really not all that much fun.

Bards are arguably the best soloers. You can AoE kite, which is harder here than live and you have to choose your spots and times well or you can piss people off, but that's just one way bards solo. I'm told swarming (with charm, not AOE....and no the terms aren't interchangeable despite popular opinion here, apparently) is screwed up here because of the way social aggro works but I'm kind of interested in finding out for myself. Regardless, you can still charm kill singles. You can fear kite single mobs. You can chant kite singles or 2 at once. You get to choose how many you solo at once because you are the puller you are. You have almost endless options for soloing and you get to do it with an amount of downtime of your chosing.

The problem is not with Bards or Bards doing what they should. There is nothing wrong with the bard class whatsoever, although I would submit that having songs go into the main buffbox and the hybrid exp penalty really sucks, but that's just my own personal complaint. The real question here is this....Are you up to the task of playing a bard? 90% of people who play EQ are not, so don't sweat it if you aren't. I'm among the majority a lot of the time. It takes a special mindset and creativity as well as a durable twisting hand and sometimes you really just want to get in a group and fill a role. You don't as a bard...you create one by working hard at it.

The biggest challenge you have is getting into groups. People are lazy and don't want to think outside the box. Good bards stand out, but bad ones can ruin your day and those experiences aren't good for the reputation of the class. Threads like this don't help, either.

Good luck.

[Barkingturtle]

What is the point of a bard? What is the point of anything? Cease this endless conflict and seek salvation in the Temple of Life, imo.

[SCB]

To be awesome. Observe the bards in the picture below;

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/Arshissblade/Star_Wars_Band_by_Horus1780_zps609aa732.jpg

I have this poster on my wall.

On the subject - bards are the best possible class to add to any situation. I would add a bard over any other class in any situation. Downside is, I'd only want one bard.

[Estu]

You do realize that everything you do stacks? Your man's song stacks with Clarity and, when we get them, mana regen items. Same goes for regen. And haste. And resists. Etc.

Enjoyed this post a lot overall, but minor correction - song haste does not stack with spell haste until the Ervaj line in Velious.

What is the point of a bard? What is the point of anything? Cease this endless conflict and seek salvation in the Temple of Life, imo.

Enjoyed this~

Bards are an amazing class and I don't understand the OP's gripes at all. They're incredible soloers (and as others have pointed out, the ability to solo is a privilege, not a right, in EQ), incredible in groups, and incredible in raids, they don't require any gear to get started without it being a pain in the ass, AND they're actually interesting and fun to play, to boot. Their raid role is boring but so is every single other raid role. If you want exciting raid gameplay, EQ isn't for you. If you want an MMO where every class is good at everything, EQ isn't for you. EQ is about unforgiving, no-guarantees gameplay and the need to band together to accomplish things. Really don't understand where you're coming from.

What is this existential crisis you're having? You got an amazing class to a high level, the world is your oyster, and now you've decided that it's not the optimal class for someone starting out for the first time? I'm playing a wizard, dude. Boring as fuck class, hated in groups, meh soloer, and useful in raids, but boring in raids too. More boring than a bard, even - I only use one ability, instead of twisting a couple of songs (hyperbole, but still). I have my reasons for playing it and I still enjoy the class despite its flaws. Maybe play the game more casually and don't worry about every little thing? I don't know what to tell you.

[fastboy21]

bard first over haste was in velious...why i said they matured in those later expansions very well. fade was another big one that came in luclin.

[t0lkien]

I've only ever played a Bard in EQ because it's the most self-sufficient, versatile class in the game. It's useful from the low game to the end-game, and can usually find a way to do anything with enough thought, luck, skill, and persistence. You can always solo - always. Between charm kiting, AoE kiting, Fear kiting, and DoT kiting there is never nothing to do if you can't get a group. If you want to be "powerful" as in top the DPS meters or tank or be the reason a full raid force can't raid (tank, healer, top end CC), then pick another class.

Bards are not easy to play well, and in the endgame tend to be dependent on their epic (which is a game-changer). I've been playing one since 2001 and I'm still learning stuff. They are hard work often, and if you don't want to be tapping keys constantly, investigating the intricacies of server ticks, knowing which song does what, stacks or doesn't stack with what, how to fit in with other classes in a group, and which gear can cover a hole in all the other abilities, they're not going to be fun. I think it's fair to say that on p99 the majority of Bards don't play the class, they play the low HP kiting exploit. The truly specialist Bards shine.

Plus we run significant faster than anything else in the game. This alone makes Bards rockstars.

P.S. In answer to your endgame question though - we are all about resists, mana regen, and some haste (and if you believe Thott (http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/index.php) -which I don't really - pulling). That is our thing. We are also all about our epic at that point. In Velious we get Occlusion of Sound (http://wiki.project1999.org/Occlusion_of_Sound) which, while it may not be technically crucial, is a huge raid boon on highly resistant mobs and can be the difference between success and a wipe. Every class gets pigeon-holed into roles in the endgame. It's how it works. I'm personally thankful we have a vaild role there, because some other classes don't really.

[Bardalicious]

Dunno how anyone could have the impression that bards are remotely useless, of course with the exception of you grouping with awful players.

They have incredible versatility with their song arsenal and can fit well in almost any group, period. If you're gauging your DPS ability as what makes this class "strong" or "useful" then you're playing it for the wrong reason and should have rolled monk or rogue.

[webrunner5]

A well played Bard is a thing of beauty. But there are a lot of ugly Bards on here. I can't play one well myself either. It is a damn hard job for hours at a time. Most just do one song at a time and go AFK a lot. I can pass on that in a group, sorry.

[zanderklocke]

I play bard, and I'm da best!

[Jimjam]

Raid role: Force multiplier on other group members?

[mtb tripper]

this is a hospital for midgets

[astuce999]

Quick corrections here:

-Overhaste wasn't introduced until Luclin (vah shir song line).

-The Ervaj line (velious) is stackable haste but stays under the cap,
so any player with a 41% haste item and 60% haste buff will find it useless.

-Fading Memories is a PoP ability.

For the OP's question:

What is the point of a bard?

To turn the mundane into legendary!

'stuce

[Nirgon]

And they continue to think their bard or ranger is useless

[Snizatcher]

Kunark lasting as long as it has and the lockdown of Trak really hurts bards (other classes as well).

[Nlaar]

Quick corrections here:

What is the point of a bard?

To turn the mundane into legendary!



Great statement from one of the best but little known bards on P99.

[thieros]

Bards can awesome if played well. Can save an entire group on some dragon AEs. Can still CC pretty well. Some of the best non-stop groups I have had in seb have been with bards.

Bard played right can rock your world. seb crawls, hs, chardok. anywhere you want to go. As a puller, I'd have to say they do the best. Monks split and all, but ive seen bards pull in seb single mobs constantly so literally a constant flow of exp. I heart a good bard

[Wotsirb401]

bards! come to FE, Bards have soo many weapons in the raid scene. Resists, Kiting Fear while DT's go off like wildfires!

[Gwence]

hopefully you're a female bard because male bards are pretty terrible

[Bantam 1]

Has nothing to do with the impression you've given, you've all confirmed what I thought to be true. A bard main can only truly solo by swarming which can be a reputation killer, it tends to be a pain in the ass to obtain groups because you pick such a niche role, and in raids you're around for dragons, a random fight here, and mana song.

Then you're not understanding.... it could be your personality as the issue to obtain groups.


Why wouldn't a group want a bard? You mean everyone gets to have the perfect group every time with everything covered?


Monk, Warrior, Rogue, Rogue, Cleric, Enchanter? Is that what goes through your mind when looking for groups?



PS - Hitting on the note Nirgon brought up.... I really don't get why people would think a bard or ranger is useless; maybe people's IQ has dropped since EQ originally came out. Being able to function in various roles is a thing of beauty when done right. I'm not going to beat around the bush here... if you honestly think a bard is useless the majority of the time... it's due to ignorance or stupidity.

[Acrux Bcrux]

If you think a bard is useless youre doing it way wrong, both in a group and in a raid. Go play a druid and dont make the rest of us look bad thx.

[Roku]

I think most people are misunderstanding why I'm even asking what the point of bards are. I'm more than capable of running multiple mezzes, I generally actually charm and triple mez while spinning Breath of Harmony procs in filler. I have ended up pulling instances with harmony, snares, and saved my groups by kiting adds. I'm not saying bards are god awful and entirely useless. I am asking for validation that bards are truly limited in a raid scene....Did I not emphasize that enough?

I have ended up pulling instances with harmony, snares, and saved my groups by kiting adds. I'm not saying bards are god awful and entirely useless.

I have ended up pulling instances with harmony, snares, and saved my groups by kiting adds.

I have ended up pulling instances

instances

[Snackies]

Bard: Jack of all trades - master of finding/pulling outdoor dragons!

The only real con I find with playing a bard is that the amount of effort that's put into maintaining an awesome group dynamic is sometimes more than you really want to give or maintain.

[Atmas]

Bard: Jack of all trades - master of finding/pulling outdoor dragons!

The only real con I find with playing a bard is that the amount of effort that's put into maintaining an awesome group dynamic is sometimes more than you really want to give or maintain.

Yep. Bards are awesome, but I couldn't play one for the work you have to put in at all times.

Bards as mentioned are a jack of all trades, but unlike some other multi trade classes actually do some things better than any others.

It's almost hard for me to fathom someone who got to 50 something as a bard asking what's their point.