why do so many people want a teams server?

[pharmakos]

^^

[Swish]

http://i.imgur.com/1BlRhjI.gif

[pharmakos]

if any new PVP server comes out, i hope its Rallos rules. i think i'd actually play that.

teams doesn't sound that interesting to me. what if i'm forced to be on a team with Swish?????

;)

[big league chew]

teams give weak players hardcoded pals

[Infectious]

I only like teams cause it gives new players a chance to get started before the grief begins. To me it doesnt really matter, but if we had teams and the pop would be anything more then we have. Im all for it. Teams is also fun cause it doesnt allot zerg guilds like we have now. It pretty much forces the server into 2 zerg guilds and a couple small guilds for people leveling up. Now if this server had a 400+ pop then it makes sense to be ffa. But with the pop we have now it would be cool to see 2 big zerg guilds battling over dragons.

[Feniggles]

teams give weak players hardcoded pals


Hehe rallos zek rule set = no guilds, no groups or you are a BLUEBIE

teams good

[Swish]

teams with item loot... there, I said it.

[Nirgon]

Item loot was removed from teams servers.

Cross teaming was abused by the hardcore pixel farmers who value pixels over a fun EQ experience. It will be abused here, it will be a mess with item loot.

Current red needs item loot after Nilbog gets some time to come back around. I'm really happy to see his current pvp fixes and kudos for being the dev we deserved on these problems.

[Gustoo]

teams give weak players hardcoded pals

People have big dreams but forget that teams end up being stupid on 100prrcent of MMOs that try.

[Stinkum]

In theory, FFA is the best ruleset for a PvP game. I like sandbox PvP and being able to attack anything that moves on my screen.

The problem is that it is a terrible ruleset for the long-term health of a server. Everytime FFA has been tried, it results in the same thing: A boring, low-population server with one powerful guild with the same 60 hardcore EQ addicts on it that have been playing EQ PvP since VZTZ 1.0.

Believe it or not, EQ PvP is a lot funner when you have a high population and constantly fresh blood. Team-based servers actually nurture the new or casual EQ player and let them be able to find groups for 1-49 without getting griefed off the server. FFA alienates the new and casual EQ player. Teams welcomes and facilitated the new and casual EQ player.

[big league chew]

what about a teams server that you can attack your own teammates on?
thats an idea i could get behind

[Rexxin]

If you guys think a teams server is long-term sustainability with a 200 ish pop. your crazy.

How long before the dominant PVE team has 70%+ of the population on it? Look at Nihilum for example, how long was it before they had every nutriding neckbeard on their roster? Once the dominant PVE team has been established hordes of people will re role etc. And before you know it you have pretty much every WOW server that exists. Which is why they had to introduce interserver BG's etc.

A teams server has great appeal but lets be honest of the outcome. And as far as bringing in New players who is going to roll on the team that has no one to group with etc.?

Teams just flat out wont work and never have worked.

[Labanen]

i think they overestimate the current population when they suggest teams. It may be fun, but it require a larger playerbase imho.

[Infectious]

1) Why have teams if you can attack your own team lol???
2) If you have teams, 2 big guilds will form on each side. Them 2 big guilds will fight for dragons. What dont you get? If you do 2 teams with darks( ogre,troll,de and iksar) and lights get the other classes, it makes it so. Darks get the best tanks, monks and shaman. Lights get druids and bards. Just if you make teams hardcode that shit so one team cant buff/heal the other side.

[Feniggles]

Item loot was removed from teams servers.

Cross teaming was abused by the hardcore pixel farmers who value pixels over a fun EQ experience. It will be abused here, it will be a mess with item loot.

Current red needs item loot after Nilbog gets some time to come back around. I'm really happy to see his current pvp fixes and kudos for being the dev we deserved on these problems.

if someone were to make a teams server im sure they would hardcode something in to avoid the immortal healer shit we faced on vallon

[Rexxin]

1) Why have teams if you can attack your own team lol???
2) If you have teams, 2 big guilds will form on each side. Them 2 big guilds will fight for dragons. What dont you get? If you do 2 teams with darks( ogre,troll,de and iksar) and lights get the other classes, it makes it so. Darks get the best tanks, monks and shaman. Lights get druids and bards. Just if you make teams hardcode that shit so one team cant buff/heal the other side.


Its not a matter of me not understanding how a "Perfect World Teams Server" would be, its a matter of you not understanding reality. Have you even played a Teams based server or game? Hell even counterstrike is never balanced in the pug atmosphere, everyone flocks to the winning side.

[Stinkum]

Its not a matter of me not understanding how a "Perfect World Teams Server" would be, its a matter of you not understanding reality. Have you even played a Teams based server or game? Hell even counterstrike is never balanced in the pug atmosphere, everyone flocks to the winning side.

You realize what you are describing is exactly Red99 with the current FFA ruleset?

[Rexxin]

You realize what you are describing is exactly Red99 with the current FFA ruleset.

EXACTLY! It doesn't work with an Open format let alone a controlled limited format.....

You really think 200ish population will create 2 strong guilds? Hell 200ish people can barley form 1 strong guild. And that current strong guild attracts all the current new players. Do you really think that creating a Light or Dark character is going to keep people from zerging to the winning side?

If anything I see would be a one sided server with 1 guild for 6 months then that guild would split into 2 guilds because everyone will not get along then we will have an all dark or all light Blue server fighting over who saw raid mobs spawn first.

[Potus]

Item loot has never worked on any EQ server ever. It's a bad idea.

Teams do work (in that they're fun and popular and had more people than Rallos) but they had some issues. Sullon was a pretty good idea but the evil races were so fucking imbalanced -- particularly allowing Iksar to level up with impunity on Kunark, that it'd have to be reworked. As long as people don't care about RP, the best idea would be to split up Ogres, Trolls, and Dark Elves so that they are on different teams, and then wait a couple of months before allowing Kunark to come out and putting Iksar on whatever is the weakest team at the time.

Team servers were super fun, particularly at the beginning when you'd have 40-50 gnomes fighting elves in Greater Faydark and Steamfont mountains. Contrast that with opening day here, which had 3 gnome mages with earth pets endlessly killing for exp loss every gnome newbie at the newbie bind spot while the guards didn't assist.

[Stinkum]

Do you really think that creating a Light or Dark character is going to keep people from zerging to the winning side?

FFA has resulted in a low-population, 1-zerg-guild server every time it's been tried in history. Look at any of the VZTZ iterations or Red99.

A team-based server will actually help nurture the new and casual player, which is the lifeblood of any healthy box. When people can actually find groups, make new friends and guilds, and not have to solo 1-50 to see PvP, they don't get burned out like here. The FFA ruleset only ostracizes new players and casuals, as it is doing now.

[Infectious]

I played on tz from classic til velious in the top guild on server. Only problem was they never hardcoded the teams. Darks always owned the light side.
Im all for item loot, but look at any guild that challenges nihilum currently.

You get a group of vztz people roll here, they get owned in pvp/pve and are gone a month later. Could you imagine if these people were loseing their gear in the process? Lol they would last 2 weeks.

Lets be for real now... Top 10 leader board is all nihilum except 1 person. The vztz crowd cries for something, it gets put in. They quit a month later. Fuck outta here with stupid ideas like item loot. You will roll here, you will have your shit taken, you will quit for the 100th time. Have a nice day.

[Stinkum]

The server is already on life-support.

Implementing item loot would be like suffocating it with a pillow and thinking that you were resuscitating it.

[Dullah]

Better to just start players in a newbie guild than to have hardcoded teams. Problem is population, and teams isn't a long-term solution for it. It will be just as hard to find new players to group with, and even more problematic when they have to be on the same team.

[Dullah]

Item loot has never worked on any EQ server ever. It's a bad idea.

Teams do work (in that they're fun and popular and had more people than Rallos) but they had some issues. Sullon was a pretty good idea but the evil races were so fucking imbalanced -- particularly allowing Iksar to level up with impunity on Kunark, that it'd have to be reworked. As long as people don't care about RP, the best idea would be to split up Ogres, Trolls, and Dark Elves so that they are on different teams, and then wait a couple of months before allowing Kunark to come out and putting Iksar on whatever is the weakest team at the time.

Team servers were super fun, particularly at the beginning when you'd have 40-50 gnomes fighting elves in Greater Faydark and Steamfont mountains. Contrast that with opening day here, which had 3 gnome mages with earth pets endlessly killing for exp loss every gnome newbie at the newbie bind spot while the guards didn't assist.

I guess you never heard of rallos zek. Worked amazing, though pop was lower than other servers and very few people would have the stomach for it today.

[Potus]

I guess you never heard of rallos zek. Worked amazing, though pop was lower than other servers and very few people would have the stomach for it today.

Thanks for disproving your entire argument and showing why this server flounders.

Rallos wasn't very good. Deal with it.

[Rexxin]

Do you really think there is "New Players" out there? There is like 200 maybe 300 people out of 7 Billion people that are actually interested in a EMU EQ PVP server. And of those 200 people do you really think you will get an even remotely 50/50 split of the dedicated neckbeard Players? No you will have the same 1 guild PVE dominance regardless if they have to be Light or Dark there just isnt enough people man.

So lets say we do get some "New Players" and 75% of the server is on the Light Team and the other 25% are the casual rebellious solo style players on the dark side. You're a new player and are deciding on which race to role, you have no prior gear, plat, friends etc. you would like to get groups, gear and maybe even catch a raid or two after you have dedicated some time in. What race do you choose?

Great dream and I agree would be a blast but requires quite a few people.

[Potus]

2 things crippled this server from the start.

1. HORRIBLE ruleset. Possibly the worst of all worlds -- Rallos style FFA + Sullon EXP loss + no EXP bonus. Just an atrocious ruleset that encourages one super guild of poopsockers and everyone else being fucked.

2. Very buggy launch. Bad resists, no guard assist, lots of broken pvp shit that is just now being fixed. Turned people off. Pair that with #1 and you had people leaving this server en masse.

[Potus]

Think hes referring to item loot

Rallos had item loot taken away. Just like Vallon, Tallon, etc etc etc

[Stinkum]

http://i.imgur.com/q3VOout.png

[Swish]

3 things crippled this server from the start.

1. HORRIBLE ruleset. Possibly the worst of all worlds -- Rallos style FFA + Sullon EXP loss + no EXP bonus. Just an atrocious ruleset that encourages one super guild of poopsockers and everyone else being fucked.

2. Very buggy launch. Bad resists, no guard assist, lots of broken pvp shit that is just now being fixed. Turned people off. Pair that with #1 and you had people leaving this server en masse.

3. Griefing many new potential players who hadn't experienced EQ PvP on live off the server within the first 24 hours.


.

[Stinkum]

Do you really think there is "New Players" out there? There is like 200 maybe 300 people out of 7 Billion people that are actually interested in a EMU EQ PVP server.

Were you not around for beta/server launch when the server had ~700 players?

The reason we all stopped playing were the same ones Potus already pointed out.

1. HORRIBLE ruleset. Possibly the worst of all worlds -- Rallos style FFA + Sullon EXP loss + no EXP bonus. Just an atrocious ruleset that encourages one super guild of poopsockers and everyone else being fucked.

2. Very buggy launch. Bad resists, no guard assist, lots of broken pvp shit that is just now being fixed. Turned people off. Pair that with #1 and you had people leaving this server en masse.

[Rexxin]

Were you not around for beta/server launch when the server had ~700 players?

The reason we all stopped playing were the same ones Potus already pointed out.

I think its funny that people refer to the one week when beta was launched and 700 people logged in for a week to check it out as the standard to how many people we "Really" have in our player pool.

[Rexxin]

At least on other boxes u could 2box so the non zergs could still do content and level up.

bunch of small guilds is funner than 1 or 2 big guilds. But being a small guild here means ur a 4 man gank squad that cant even do normal group content because of class makeup.

Also means your forced to play with people you dont want to because its the only option.

Right on the $$

[NegaStoat]

I like PvP, but I never gave it a serious try on old EQ. My first MMO experience with it was Dark Age of Camelot. But moving along, sure, I'd like to give EQ PvP a shot. I do have some concerns though that keep me from making that choice.

1. I fade into my noob zone and I'm camped out of the gate. Okay, that's gonna happen so I do some research to try to determine where I might be able to scoot off for a somewhat safe initial leveling area. If my research turns up that my options suck, then that's a strike against my giving it a try as it's a huge waste of my time.

both DAoC and WoW had safe starting areas for a reason. both companies determined that the scenario of a gnome starting off to be camped by fellow gnomes with earth pets was complete garbage.

2. If teams are set up to prevent the angry gnome situation listed above for the benefit of starting players - what's to stop the server from accumulating a huge imbalance of one team towards the others? I seem to recall the deity teams old PvP server hitting that problem with a bazillion Neutral players wrecking shit out of the others.

DAoC & old Planetside dealt with that issue by giving incentives (experience boost, etc.) for the team with the lowest pop. But would that solve the issue?

I dunno. I'd be willing to at least give it a shot - i'm sure a lot of other players would as well. If server population of expanding past 200 players is what people want, I'm certain we'd see it happen.

3. Item loot. I could care less really. If it's in, then people only bust out their best gear in secure camps / raids. In every other situation, you're filling your slots up with No Drops. Big deal. I could go for that.

If it's found to be a bad idea, then that's okay too. Honest, it doesn't make that much of a difference to me. I kind of would like Coin loot of some fashion to be available, in either case. Killing someone is fun, but I wanna roll their body for beer money as a side reward.

The bottom line is that the current state of the server has nothing attractive for me to really want to give it a try. Everyone only gets so many hours a day / week to spend on a game. The balance of additional fun from pvp also has to be weighed against the wasted time of deaths / camping that comes with it. I'm not seeing enough reward / safeguards in place to even make it worth my time.

[Stinkum]

I think its funny that people refer to the one week when beta was launched and 700 people logged in for a week to check it out as the standard to how many people we "Really" have in our player pool.

I too find it funny when people point to perfectly legitimate indications of the potential number of players the server could appeal to.

[Rexxin]

I too find it funny when people point to perfectly legitimate indications of the potential number of players the server could appeal to.

We are playing a 15 year old Illegal emulated EQ pvp server that averages 130 people of which 35 are siting at char select and 15 of the people actually playing are Boxing a toon which is against the rules.

Yea I can see 700 potentially

[Stinkum]

Red99 had 700 people for several weeks after launch, all of whom quit in attrition due to the many problems with the server and ruleset. If people liked it, most of them would have kept playing. Obviously there were and continue to be a lot of problems.

A PvP server with a population higher than 100-200 is possible given the right conditions.

[runlvlzero]

1.1. New Server
1.11. Race war is cool and RP
2. A new chance for item loot

[Potus]

I don't think a team pvp server would have as many people as blue, or as many people that showed up in the first week, but I think it'd have way more than 100 people on a Friday night. So say maybe 425-500 is a good expectation of an actual pvp server.

[Infectious]

Wait a minute... Salty, I thought a year ago your friend stole the source code of project 99 and was gona release a server? Your a scrub, fuck outta here. Ya lets release the source code so their are 20 servers so we can split up the pop of 130 people into 20 servers. You dont play here, go off into the sunset already like you were suppose to for the 20th time. This is a discussion about red99, not a fucking fantasy world your living in boy.

People who want item loot have to understand that the top guild is decked out in full no drop vp+ epics. You add item loot you put yourself at more of a disadvantage. Considering no one is competeing with nihilum without item loot, that is just a dumb idea.

[Swish]

Release source

Other people make stabe servers

community decide which ones suck and do not play on them.



Too bad Rogaine and Nilbog would rather be jews

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2h7w79xLr1qgk4ojo1_500.gif

[Dullah]

Thanks for disproving your entire argument and showing why this server flounders.

Rallos wasn't very good. Deal with it.

No, saying the pop was lower doesn't disprove anything einstein. The server still had a healthy pop, and you could find a group anywhere. Probably 5 or 6x that of r99.

Teams does nothing for population, sorry to burst your bubble. It will be even harder for the few players that play here to find a group. Rallos was lower pop because of item loot, not the teams/non-teams rules.

[Potus]

People who want item loot have to understand that the top guild is decked out in full no drop vp+ epics. You add item loot you put yourself at more of a disadvantage. Considering no one is competeing with nihilum without item loot, that is just a dumb idea.

Here's how Item Loot has worked on every single fucking PVP server ever.

1. Item Loot proponents want Item Loot. They all operate in the fantasy that they're going to be looting fungi tunics and never have the reverse happen to them.
2. Item Loot goes live, pvp turns into people bagging their items and standing still while getting nuked by 2 naked wizards/druids.
3. Most melees quit the server.
4. The people with no drop gear (aka bluebie poopsockers) who already have an advantage in having better gear start looting shit like GEBs and Fungis off other people.
5. Server pop plummets to naked casters roaming Unrest and Crushbone and Bluebie Poopsock guild laughing at their No Drop gear never getting looted.
6. The VERY SAME PEOPLE who were the largest cheerleaders in stage 1 now want item loot gone.
7. Item Loot gets removed and the population somewhat recovers.
8. 2 or 3 people who don't even play the server anymore go onto the forums and start demanding Item Loot and cry that the game is boring now.

[Stinkum]

Teams does nothing for population, sorry to burst your bubble. It will be even harder for the few players that play here to find a group. Rallos was lower pop because of item loot, not the teams/non-teams rules.

The various ways in which a team ruleset fosters the new and casual player has already been demonstrated several times. I know it's difficult for you, but please try and keep up.

[Potus]

No, saying the pop was lower doesn't disprove anything einstein. The server still had a healthy pop, and you could find a group anywhere. Probably 5 or 6x that of r99.

Teams does nothing for population, sorry to burst your bubble. It will be even harder for the few players that play here to find a group. Rallos was lower pop because of item loot, not the teams/non-teams rules.

5-6x the population of P99 is about 500-600 people. In 1999-2001 that's a bad server (I think the Test Server had that many). In fact I don't think Rallos ever got that bad until way later, like 2004-5.

Compared to Sullon/Tallon/Vallon, Rallos was always pulling in way less people. It just wasn't that popular (for reasons already stated). When the other zeks came out it bled players bad.

[Dullah]

The various ways in which a team ruleset fosters the new and casual player has already been demonstrated several times. I know it's difficult for you, but please try and keep up.

Translated: I said its right without proving anything, so it is.

You can't stop the neckbeard man. No matter how many rules you try to inject into the server.

New players on a low pop server will have even more trouble finding groups when they are segregated into teams. Thats just idiotic.

Just have players automatically joined to a starter guild, and voila, they have a team from the start.

[Dullah]

5-6x the population of P99 is about 500-600 people. In 1999-2001 that's a bad server (I think the Test Server had that many). In fact I don't think Rallos ever got that bad until way later, like 2004-5.

Compared to Sullon/Tallon/Vallon, Rallos was always pulling in way less people. It just wasn't that popular (for reasons already stated). When the other zeks came out it bled players bad.

By your logic, classic Everquest is a bad game because other games have millions of active players to our couple thousand.

EQ servers maxed out at 2k, and most had just over 1k. 600ish is hardly struggling.

[Potus]

By your logic, classic Everquest is a bad game because other games have millions of active players to our couple thousand.

EQ servers maxed out at 2k, and most had just over 1k. 600ish is hardly struggling.

During which time period? From 1999-2001 you had blue servers with pops way bigger than 2k which is why there were so many new servers coming out.

[Stinkum]

New players on a low pop server will have even more trouble finding groups when they are segregated into teams.

The server was definitely not low pop at launch.

[heartbrand]

I'm not defending the server by any means, but it's hard to extrapolate anything from pops of server launches, as almost every MMO game has a pretty huge pop that first week.

[Stinkum]

I'm not defending the server by any means, but it's hard to extrapolate anything from pops of server launches, as almost every MMO game has a pretty huge pop that first week.

At Kunark launch, Blue shot up from like 400-600 to 1200-1400 pop. Even 2.5 years later, it's still regularly fielding 1,000+ at peak times. Sure, some people only show up for the show, but if you do a content launch right then you can definitely retain a good portion of the playerbase.

[pharmakos]

what about combination Rallos+Firiona rules?

item loot
no NO DROP tag
no hardcoded teams, but no common tongue

[Gustoo]

Better than present but makes people constantly nervous. Its a non classic set that would be even tougher than classic rallos rules. There are a lot of so-so no drop items that are fun to obtain in item loot. Runlvlzeroes custom no drop set seems like a hood idea to me. Ivy etched and other class armors being no drop would be cool and make those quests worth doing...and then high end stuff staying droppable adds some balance.

Teams would just permanently lock people away from each other. Everyone on nihilum team would mean a blue server. Why would anyone join the opposition when it has proven incapable of gathering dedicated players?

[runlvlzero]

Here's how Item Loot has worked on every single fucking PVP server ever.

1. Item Loot proponents want Item Loot. They all operate in the fantasy that they're going to be looting fungi tunics and never have the reverse happen to them.
2. Item Loot goes live, pvp turns into people bagging their items and standing still while getting nuked by 2 naked wizards/druids.
3. Most melees quit the server.
4. The people with no drop gear (aka bluebie poopsockers) who already have an advantage in having better gear start looting shit like GEBs and Fungis off other people.
5. Server pop plummets to naked casters roaming Unrest and Crushbone and Bluebie Poopsock guild laughing at their No Drop gear never getting looted.
6. The VERY SAME PEOPLE who were the largest cheerleaders in stage 1 now want item loot gone.
7. Item Loot gets removed and the population somewhat recovers.
8. 2 or 3 people who don't even play the server anymore go onto the forums and start demanding Item Loot and cry that the game is boring now.

All that is changed if you implement http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=119103 this idea. Go read it before you knock it.

Item loot as it was on RZ would = exactly what you said. But there is no reason we have to repeat the past in that regard. Some people want it and some people don't Comprise would allow the project to cater to both crowds fairly and increase pop overall.

[pharmakos]

what about combination Rallos+Firiona rules?

item loot
no NO DROP tag
no hardcoded teams, but no common tongue

also, i would like to see some sort of code implemented so that you could loot items that are inside bags.

[runlvlzero]

also, i would like to see some sort of code implemented so that you could loot items that are inside bags.

Would be fun and I was one of the first to chirp in with the FV idea. But shit would be to hardcore for these guys.

Ide be ok with it. Because no matter how hardcore u make this game I will always find something to do.

[Rexxin]

Teams would just permanently lock people away from each other. Everyone on nihilum team would mean a blue server. Why would anyone join the opposition when it has proven incapable of gathering dedicated players?

Exactly!! This is what these guys do not understand, they think that magically with a Teams server there will be no zerg and the server will have a perfect balance with endless groups at all level ranges forever!

Once the Black Friday deals are over the crowds die down........

[heartbrand]

At Kunark launch, Blue shot up from like 400-600 to 1200-1400 pop. Even 2.5 years later, it's still regularly fielding 1,000+ at peak times. Sure, some people only show up for the show, but if you do a content launch right then you can definitely retain a good portion of the playerbase.

I'm glad you said this. I think part of what separates the playerbase of red from blue is this powergamer type mentality of "I've done this rodeo before I'm here to get 60 ASAP," whereas on blue you have a lot of people returning to experience the "journey". Because this is a classic server with limited content there's not enough content to satiate people on red and people burn out.

[Potus]

All that is changed if you implement http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=119103 this idea. Go read it before you knock it.

Item loot as it was on RZ would = exactly what you said. But there is no reason we have to repeat the past in that regard. Some people want it and some people don't Comprise would allow the project to cater to both crowds fairly and increase pop overall.

I don't see how this fixes anything except that it lets the group of druids/wizards wear decent no-drop gear while still attacking people. Going after bags would just chase anyone off the server faster.

Also this server would require even more intensive coding from the devs. I don't see it flying at all. There's no need for compromise here because no one actually wants an item loot server. Again, they all think they're going to loot fungis but when they start playing they cry for item loot to go away. My evidence: EVERY SINGLE ITEM LOOT SERVER THAT HAS EVER EXISTED.

[Colgate]

heart "i swear i'm not immersed in everquest" brand continuing to write essay after essay

[SamwiseRed]

why do people want teams? because teams is perfect for these kind of mmos. anyone who says eq pvp was better than vanilla wow's pvp is a moran. gate pots (hearthstones) had a long CD, no gay ass zone hoping or plugging. mass pvp was actually mass (well over 80v80 at times)

teams gives people incentive to pvp other than just to grief. seriously the only reason i played this lame ruleset so long is because its fun to think of nihilum as the bad guys. i could care less about taking a dragon from them, i just wanted to kill them because they were evil. wish i was better with words because I know i have a valid point. pvping over mobs means nothing to people who dont raid or dont like to raid. a clear and concise enemy however... let the games begin.

nb4 im a roleplaying faggot cuz i very well may be one.

[runlvlzero]

I don't see how this fixes anything except that it lets the group of druids/wizards wear decent no-drop gear while still attacking people. Going after bags would just chase anyone off the server faster.

Also this server would require even more intensive coding from the devs. I don't see it flying at all. There's no need for compromise here because no one actually wants an item loot server. Again, they all think they're going to loot fungis but when they start playing they cry for item loot to go away. My evidence: EVERY SINGLE ITEM LOOT SERVER THAT HAS EVER EXISTED.

I disagree with this opinion. The experiment has not been run. I particularly disgree that it would take much more effort: 1 thread with 1 GM and people can hand pick the no drop/bind on equip.

Then it is just several hundred database edits + some thousands of automated edits and a quick test to see that the database is working.

I would put a total of 24 man hours on a change like that.

Otherwise we don't know how the economy/community would develop if everyone could wear a lil loot and be proud of their class, not feel gimped, yet compete for fun stuff. We've only run this experiment on hardcore mode in the past. And when it was run on EMU servers the EMU code was way worse than 99's in some cases, or itemization was still way off. With a clean database + working resists, this would be a VERY worthwhile experiment IMHO.

Just my opinion though. I want to see it happen before I rubber stamp it as stupid.

FYI last time I was playing with item loot I was a troll warrior and hate was half hate 1.0 and half 2.0 and mobs were broken ) I didn't "loot fungi's" but it was fun. I don't expect to loot fungis. But it would be fun to have the opportunities. TBH Some pvpers would come back and they would be looting fungi's. Probably to the tune of once a month at the rate population churns here.

[heartbrand]

I don't think you grasp the concept of a message board tomato pal

[Dullah]

Let me get this straight. You're advocating item loot permitted they first add unclassic nodrop items to prevent losing items.

http://www.buzzle.com/img/articleImages/378001-25613-46.jpg

[runlvlzero]

I advocate a moderate approach to item loot rather than an all or nothing a la cart approach. There will still be things to "risk"

Everyone says the reason they most like item loot is because it makes player agency matter more. Well some people aren't that red. Were playing an MMO not a MUD or a pnp game.

Catering 100% to player agency is not the best solution.

Infact, most people here.

ESPECIALLY the fuckers in Nihilum are blue as fuck and do not like any kind of agency what so ever. And are perfectly happy to "achieve a timesink".

While I think your *are more genuinely interested in player agency, you are no Salem either Ender. Not a shining example of online RP and PvP. So I don't want to hear bitching about making softcore item loot from your pixelated corner. Only people that can bitch IMO are Gustoo, Chewie, Salem, Tunak, yall can cry that I suggest some watered down crap compared to full on freedom.

Lastly I already previously have advocated in the past maximum freedom/agency... Full classic item loot. Even permadeath. FV loot. I've made threads and threads of that. Never will happen. Its a pipe dream.

You can also call this a pipe dream too. But right now I feel like its a really good idea.

Smedy Jesus and other NCC/IF pals u can bitch about softcore versions of item loot aswell.

Everyone else I'm not interested in seeing more of your moronic input/flamebait. At this point its argument for the sake of argument. Nothing analytical or rational about it. Just "this didnt work implemented differently under other circumstances, why you want to implement it that way, it will never work". Fine ... but the shit coming out of your keyboards is pretty dumb. Why the fuck wont it work if you can loot a Mithril BP but not a DF chestplate? People will still want to wear/use Mithril Bps. Same goes for FBSS vs thick leather apron. People are going to wear those FBSS's. And resist gear. Their not going to just roll with some crap. Not the good ones.

Scrubs will always be scrubs, zergs will always be zergs, Nihilum will always be Nihilum. Fuckin pussies worried that some of your gear might become drop able is what U r.

Don't worry. Not in this universe. Not on P99's watch. They got you covered.

I mean I can feel the palpable OCD and fear of not being able to wear Best in Slot pumping through the interwebs. U couldnt hack it without BIS and with item loot.

Its like your sacred duty to acquire, hoard and wear the sacred pixels. Zero else matters. God for bid things were diff. No one is taking it away from you. We just want to make it funner/more challenging for you/us to do it.

[Rexxin]

why do people want teams? because teams is perfect for these kind of mmos. anyone who says eq pvp was better than vanilla wow's pvp is a moran. gate pots (hearthstones) had a long CD, no gay ass zone hoping or plugging. mass pvp was actually mass (well over 80v80 at times)



Agree Teams would be great if we had a player pool of 3-5k, also keep in mind WOW had to begin doing BGs between multiple servers because each server began to have one dominant race and one non existence race all because one race on each server started to gather all the population because they were winning...

hence why this is a bad platform for MMOs

[SamwiseRed]

Agree Teams would be great if we had a player pool of 3-5k, also keep in mind WOW had to begin doing BGs between multiple servers because each server began to have one dominant race and one non existence race all because one race on each server started to gather all the population because they were winning...

hence why this is a bad platform for MMOs

tbh didnt know, i got the fuck outta there when blood elves were added to the horde. terrible terrible arena. only cool BG was AV because it was truely an epic battle (at times an all day war.) adding the quests in the BG was a pretty cool idea as well. i remember doing that summoning thing where a giant NPC would come out and wtf pwn the opposing team or at least allow you to push forward.

[Dullah]

While I think your *are more genuinely interested in player agency, you are no Salem either Ender. Not a shining example of online RP and PvP. So I don't want to hear bitching about making softcore item loot from your pixelated corner. Only people that can bitch IMO are Gustoo, Chewie, Salem, Tunak, yall can cry that I suggest some watered down crap compared to full on freedom.




Ender's kills and kdr dwarfed anything Salem did, or will do.

Rip Ender.

[SamwiseRed]

rip ender.

http://www.nihilumguild.com/images/raze/ender.jpg

[runlvlzero]

Only thing I know about you is that your spent your time raiding for the trak teeth and got banned for MQ.

You may have engaged in more mass pvp and generated way more "stats" but. I haven't experienced fighting you. Nor do I know about your previous toons on other servers. Your just some DPS rogue in Nihilum for all I know.

Granted I aint shit. So maybe I shouldn't be telling the #1 banned rogue on the box anything about item loot.

Just a scrub. But at least I am willing to risk it rather than just be mad about it.

[runlvlzero]

Brennard > Ender =)

That dood did it from scratch in rawhide from level 1-60 before he got pussywipped IRL.

He was also super legit in game, fighting the good fight for all the underdogs.

[Dullah]

Only thing I know about you is that your spent your time raiding for the trak teeth and got banned for MQ.

You may have engaged in more mass pvp and generated way more "stats" but. I haven't experienced fighting you. Nor do I know about your previous toons on other servers. Your just some DPS rogue in Nihilum for all I know.

Granted I aint shit. So maybe I shouldn't be telling the #1 banned rogue on the box anything about item loot.

Just a scrub. But at least I am willing to risk it rather than just be mad about it.

I don't know about "raiding for trak teeth", but I never was banned for anything even remotely related to hacking or exploiting.

I was banned for deleting some asshats character that stole numerous items, accounts and was involved in the deletion of another players account. And not before he posted our entire guilds personal info and phone numbers on a forum largely inhabited by sociopaths.

For one week, I was batman.

[Vile]

Let me get this straight. You're advocating item loot permitted they first add unclassic nodrop items to prevent losing items.

http://www.buzzle.com/img/articleImages/378001-25613-46.jpg

made me lul

[SamwiseRed]

resorting to lamort RL pics is just a low blow

[Nyrod]

Exactly!! This is what these guys do not understand, they think that magically with a Teams server there will be no zerg and the server will have a perfect balance with endless groups at all level ranges forever!

Once the Black Friday deals are over the crowds die down........

/agree

this thread is full of idiots chasing pipe dreams. only seen a few people who can face the reality that this is not a new game and you cannot HARDCODE people from playing exactly how they want. who the fuck cares about in game languages when i can use TS/vent/skype? the ONLY way you will ever change the way EQ pvp emu works is to make a COMPLETELY CUSTOM SERVER and then who gives a shit. i want as legit as possible EQ experience with pvp enabled.

number 1 problem here that can be fixed is the delay in releasing content but we were ALREADY AWARE this would take time because ITS NOT READY (so they keep saying) and this is still in a sense a BETA RUN. that said, fix some of the in game pvp issues like resists, release Velious, and give it a good run. THEN wipe server with a timed release of expansions and people will actually have a motivation to fight to stay on top instead of burning out knowing the next expansion is in sight. i think its insanity people wanting to START OVER when there are still things in game that arent FIXED?

[pharmakos]

Again, they all think they're going to loot fungis

not really the reason i want an item loot server

i personally like the higher stakes that item loot would provide.

i want item loot for the same reasons that i play EQ instead of WoW. i want the difference between winning and losing to be greater (whether i win or not).

[Syft]

LMFAO

hmm why do people want teams lets see?

You release a server, jacked up from top to bottom with bad coding resembling nothing like classic, and all the pvper's leave. Because well they wanted classic pvp. One guild stays farms great gear, conflag wands, golem wands etc etc. Giving them an impossible advantage to overcome in pvp.

Then you leave in an 8 lvl limit(which was never on a FFA server) pretty much asking bad blues to grief players left and right. You code lvl's to matter more than resist gear so even if a player 8 lvl's lower is better in skill they just don't stand a chance because all their spells will partial or resist, or their hits will miss or be dodged, parry'd etc. AND THEN to add insult to injury you make dispels no lvl limit just so the bad's can grief noobs so more.

Then the real bads who can't compete in pvp make low lvl's gear them out with epics and delvl them to 20 range just so they can taste pvp without risking defeat on their main. So now guys with a rusty sword can lvl slow as fuck(because dev's and gm's are too fucking scared to actually play on red and think it is the same as blue and just 200% bonus will actually mean dick to a guy that has to fight full geared epic'd player's at 20's range)

Now you can see why a guy with only a few hours to spend lvling because he has a full real life with kids, wife and job could want a team coded server.

[Nyrod]

/thread

[Syft]

not really the reason i want an item loot server

i personally like the higher stakes that item loot would provide.

i want item loot for the same reasons that i play EQ instead of WoW. i want the difference between winning and losing to be greater (whether i win or not).

So you want to get trak toothed and lose an item when u hit 52 range because that is the current reality for every non nihilum on this server!

[pharmakos]

you definitely have a point there.

preferably there'd be a fresh server if item loot is implemented.

[Dullah]

There is no impossible gear advantage from kunark gear.

Mostly just higher AC. Few hundred hp from some of the better items, and some stats and resists. Slightly higher dmg, lower delay. Velious gear will be a different story. When you have big stats/resists and +100hp/mana in every slot, that is an advantage. Weapons insane, better than epics.

[Potus]

LMFAO

hmm why do people want teams lets see?

You release a server, jacked up from top to bottom with bad coding resembling nothing like classic, and all the pvper's leave. Because well they wanted classic pvp. One guild stays farms great gear, conflag wands, golem wands etc etc. Giving them an impossible advantage to overcome in pvp.

Then you leave in an 8 lvl limit(which was never on a FFA server) pretty much asking bad blues to grief players left and right. You code lvl's to matter more than resist gear so even if a player 8 lvl's lower is better in skill they just don't stand a chance because all their spells will partial or resist, or their hits will miss or be dodged, parry'd etc. AND THEN to add insult to injury you make dispels no lvl limit just so the bad's can grief noobs so more.

Then the real bads who can't compete in pvp make low lvl's gear them out with epics and delvl them to 20 range just so they can taste pvp without risking defeat on their main. So now guys with a rusty sword can lvl slow as fuck(because dev's and gm's are too fucking scared to actually play on red and think it is the same as blue and just 200% bonus will actually mean dick to a guy that has to fight full geared epic'd player's at 20's range)

Now you can see why a guy with only a few hours to spend lvling because he has a full real life with kids, wife and job could want a team coded server.

I agree 100%.

Also teams are fun as fuck. You haven't lived until you've seen 10 halflings steamroll a zone full of people.

[Rexxin]

LMFAO

hmm why do people want teams lets see?

You release a server, jacked up from top to bottom with bad coding resembling nothing like classic, and all the pvper's leave. Because well they wanted classic pvp. One guild stays farms great gear, conflag wands, golem wands etc etc. Giving them an impossible advantage to overcome in pvp.

Then you leave in an 8 lvl limit(which was never on a FFA server) pretty much asking bad blues to grief players left and right. You code lvl's to matter more than resist gear so even if a player 8 lvl's lower is better in skill they just don't stand a chance because all their spells will partial or resist, or their hits will miss or be dodged, parry'd etc. AND THEN to add insult to injury you make dispels no lvl limit just so the bad's can grief noobs so more.

Then the real bads who can't compete in pvp make low lvl's gear them out with epics and delvl them to 20 range just so they can taste pvp without risking defeat on their main. So now guys with a rusty sword can lvl slow as fuck(because dev's and gm's are too fucking scared to actually play on red and think it is the same as blue and just 200% bonus will actually mean dick to a guy that has to fight full geared epic'd player's at 20's range)

Now you can see why a guy with only a few hours to spend lvling because he has a full real life with kids, wife and job could want a team coded server.


Um did you read anything you just typed? Everything you just typed out has no relevance to a teams or FFA server....

How does that have any relation to wanting a Teams server?

[Syft]

Um did you read anything you just typed? Everything you just typed out has no relevance to a teams or FFA server....

How does that have any relation to wanting a Teams server?

I can only respond with reason and logic I cannot teach you common sense, but your belligerent tone will earn you an ingame death

[Rexxin]

I can only respond with reason and logic I cannot teach you common sense, but your belligerent tone will earn you an ingame death

No seriously did you read what you wrote or were you just blowing off some steam?

[Syft]

No seriously did you read what you wrote or were you just blowing off some steam?

I notice you just gated when you saw me in zone I'd keep doing that if I were you, it wont save you, but may delay the inevitable

[Darksinga]

Teams will ONLY work on a fresh server! Support Project Red Next and we will see this server revive itself. Look at Sirkens thread red99 vz VZTZ for my post. Basically we need a NEW accelerated team based server that will eventually merge with Red99 when it catches up in a few months.

Pros of Red 99 Next:

1) New players will want a fresh start on EVEN playing grounds. Who wants to start on a server when people are already decked out in epics and VP gear?

2) Players who didn't make it to lvl 60 or are still agonizing about reds xp rate will start on Next for the quick xp.

3) Players who missed out on classic loot will come to Next to get the goods.

4) Amazing fresh pvp, who doesn't love it?

5) And best of all? The hype when the servers actually merge and the Nihilum bluebies who stayed on Red to farm while the rest of the pop was on Next will get crushed when they face players with even gear.

We're basically creating a Legends server here fellas, which, lets face it: with our daily lives of work, family, school, etc, we all rather have a more casual server.

If worst comes to worst, Next would merge with red after a few months and even if people end up quitting the pop would still add quite a few to its ranks.

ALSO: Making this server happen could be done/coded/copied databases within probably 24 hours.

[filthyphil]

Because those of us with a job/wife/kids can't possibly put the time into the game needed to be competitive with the 45 or so players who spend their entire day, every day on the box.

Additionally alot of those players abused bugged mechanics/boxed in order to get that level. Not saying everyone, alot of people grinded their characters legit, but not many.

A new server would at least give the "other guys" or "randoms" as they are known to poopsockers a chance to step up in the early days of the server and possibly prevent a total takeover again.


I have stopped leveling all my toons at 51 because there is really no point in going any further. I will only be putting myself into the range of 60's while having no hope of obtaining the same gear. Not to mention that is when pillage wands & trak teeth become a crutch or cure-all for pvp.

[SamwiseRed]

I can only respond with reason and logic I cannot teach you common sense, but your belligerent tone will earn you an ingame death

lol

[Vayder]

People with less time think teams will somehow give them a shot at glory and clearly haven't attended any of the GM events on red.

Whenever teams have been formed how has that worked out? The current guild(s) work around it and the teams might as well not even exist.

Only a fool would think that a transition to teams would result in anything other than all of those more committed to the game from a time perspective joining forces on one side.

[SamwiseRed]

whether or not the zerg gonna zerg is a seperate issue. the main point of teams is it is alot more fun. once team servers came around alot of us left rz and never returned.

[Rust1d?]

I started red 99 when it came out. The people I played with left mainly because the exp was just too slow. So we went from a 700 pop on day 1, to about 500 after week 2, 300 after week 4 and about 200 from then on (I made multiple posts about the population decline but people said it was because the holidays etc. when it fact it was crap exp.

As much as people want classic, you simply cannot have a server with classic exp, it just cannot happen.

I think a new server would be great with the following:

1) 3 teams. 2 never works and having guild vs guild vs guild pvp would keep things interesting.
2) Better exp. Something along the lines of what LoZ has in place.
3) No item loot. That shit never works. Deal with it.
4) Create a max # of members a guild can have to eliminate mega guilds.

Teams will keep things fresh and allow new players to join and play without getting griefed off the server. Encourages making twinks and low level pvp.

[Nirgon]

Teams server that allows char copy from both blue and red

That could be good for some lals

[Stasis01]

I don't care about the end game raid scene with a teams adjustment - I'd be happy with red99 playing alts/doing casual shit. There is no community on this box, you can't even find EXP grps - it's solo quest.

The people arguing against teams preferring the current model are either Nihilum or crazy/trolling. There are no exp grps, no ones helping new players/gearing people up - and for good reason, eventually they will app to Nihilum.

Heartbrand tried, Lite tried, Kringe tried - you end up being a feeder guild for a one guild box and prefer to quit. At the very least teams gives solo players people to play with, while currently they just get trained/chewied/laughed off the box.

Our low/mid level community are epic twinked rogues/fungi twinks/griefers that don't have the time to go play with the no lifers - with people having no reason/desire to help people trying to get through that.

[Elderan]

I don't care about the end game raid scene with a teams adjustment - I'd be happy with red99 playing alts/doing casual shit. There is no community on this box, you can't even find EXP grps - it's solo quest.

The people arguing against teams preferring the current model are either Nihilum or crazy/trolling. There are no exp grps, no ones helping new players/gearing people up - and for good reason, eventually they will app to Nihilum.

Heartbrand tried, Lite tried, Kringe tried - you end up being a feeder guild for a one guild box and prefer to quit. At the very least teams gives solo players people to play with, while currently they just get trained/chewied/laughed off the box.

Our low/mid level community are epic twinked rogues/fungi twinks/griefers that don't have the time to go play with the no lifers - with people having no reason/desire to help people trying to get through that.

There are other solutions to the problems you presented though.

For one teams wont work on a server that is this old. The ONLY way teams would work is to setup 3 teams (Team 1, 2, 3 whatever they are named) and then force people to join a team on login once implemented. Once they join that team it is forever. And all new chars created and forced to join one at lvl 1.

If you want EXP groups then you need to make safe zones. I know this is a pvp server but with low pop that is the only way. Define a zone or two in each level range as safe zones meaning no pvp. Zones with raid mobs cant be safe zones but like Lower Guk, Kedge Keep, Howling Stones could be to allow people to freely level.

Add in a group exp bonus. Right now the mod is 2.0, make it so each person in the group adds .4 to the mod. So a group of 6 would have a 4.0 exp mod. This would promote grouping a ton.

[Syft]

There are other solutions to the problems you presented though.

For one teams wont work on a server that is this old. The ONLY way teams would work is to setup 3 teams (Team 1, 2, 3 whatever they are named) and then force people to join a team on login once implemented. Once they join that team it is forever. And all new chars created and forced to join one at lvl 1.

If you want EXP groups then you need to make safe zones. I know this is a pvp server but with low pop that is the only way. Define a zone or two in each level range as safe zones meaning no pvp. Zones with raid mobs cant be safe zones but like Lower Guk, Kedge Keep, Howling Stones could be to allow people to freely level.

Add in a group exp bonus. Right now the mod is 2.0, make it so each person in the group adds .4 to the mod. So a group of 6 would have a 4.0 exp mod. This would promote grouping a ton.

I consider anything you say stupid because your guild is literally trying to kill the server pop, your the only ones who will grief kill someone 25 times in a row if you can.

Banning everyone of you would increase the server pop by x4 in only a few weeks, you all should be banned anyways for using hack compiles and sharing the info in mirc chat so you don't get caught.

[runlvlzero]

Theres also no one to help... I LFG'd at level 10 last night and by level 16 found myself still soloing in unrest.

Granted if I /ooc'd free druid pls people would roll toons just to get pld, but it wouldnt be new players. Its not my style to PL people like that.

I ran into high levels looking for fights/pixels. And the only other people in my range I ran into was 1 guy getting PL'd by a friend (thanks for not steeling my mobs, you guys are awesome)). And one guy who pvpd me outside of Unrest. Obviously not a main toon. Not going to call twink. But they def had a jade mace =)

Grouping with people 5 levels past you in your teens doesnt work, even from a PL perspective. The low level under 30 game is broken because of level spread. Speed at which 99% of the pop can solo.

[Syft]

Theres also no one to help... I LFG'd at level 10 last night and by level 16 found myself still soloing in unrest.

Granted if I /ooc'd free druid pls people would roll toons just to get pld, but it wouldnt be new players. Its not my style to PL people like that.

I ran into high levels looking for fights/pixels. And the only other people in my range I ran into was 1 guy getting PL'd by a friend (thanks for not steeling my mobs, you guys are awesome)). And one guy who pvpd me outside of Unrest. Obviously not a main toon. Not going to call twink. But they def had a jade mace =)

Grouping with people 5 levels past you in your teens doesnt work, even from a PL perspective. The low level under 30 game is broken because of level spread. Speed at which 99% of the pop can solo.

And if you spent some time in unrest last night you would have gotten to see Bulletproofx and Zarah dispelling low lvl noobs in unrest, yea top notch players great for our server pop.

Until Brainz came in and taught bullet how men without boy parts do shit

[runlvlzero]

I was on really late... 12:00am 2am EST there. I was burning out or i'de have been there like 4am.

And yeah dispelling noobs OOR is a fucking RETARD move. This is why I want direct GM involvement in player politics, even if its just to DT those ass holes and knock 10 levels off them for being fuck heads. Banning is not a good solution. But fucking up their Ego's would work great over the long run.

They need to get the fuckhead spanked out of them. No way to make people pushup in game, but that'd work too (backed by threat of getting your ass layed out) I don't advocate violence, but at this point when people get that stupid because it wasn't remedied earlier in their lives its necessary.

TBH its because theres simply no consequences on this box. There's no way to hold people accountable, FFA is not working in that regard. There's no shining knights or good guys. There's a few solo ones out there, but they are only permitted to port/rez/buff/pl. If anyone pvpd they'd instantly be banned for causing consequences for stupid assholes.

The only good guys there ever were were wolfs in sheeps clothing. Don't even bring up bullshit actors like Serenity/Vae Victus into this. They didn't "take care of noobs". FoH real close to being box heroes but if your not hardcore they will fuck u up just as bad as the rest.

*edits: remove apostrophe from hero's to heroes cause grammar important dawgs.

[Potus]

Every single time I've been to Unrest someone from Nihilum has dispelled all my buffs off me.

Every single time.

[runlvlzero]

I've asked to have them asswhooped by the GMs. I hope they at least got reprimanded. A bit.

[Potus]

It's a stupid bug, I don't get why it's still going on this server. How many times has it been bug reported?

I've asked to have them asswhooped by the GMs. I hope they at least got reprimanded. A bit.

I wouldn't hold your breath. One of the times Sirken was standing right there when it happened.

[runlvlzero]

It's a stupid bug, I don't get why it's still going on this server. How many times has it been bug reported?

Multiple bug reports don't bump them to the front of the queue unless its 100% of blue server pop making 15 different threads in every single forum about it. And the fact that its a bug doesn't condone that kind of behavior. Just because "I can" is not a very good excuse, sure its an excuse but its not good enough to save you from getting slapped.