Project 1999 PvP Open Broadcast Discussion *Rescheduled*

[Rogean]

Update: This has been rescheduled for Saturday, August 31st, at 9:00 PM Eastern.

Join the Project 1999 Staff, including Nilbog, Sirken, and Myself, for an open discussion regarding some PvP ideas and possible upcoming changes on Saturday, August 31st, at 9:00 PM Eastern.

This will be a PvP specific discussion. We will not be talking about or answering questions related to other content. This is the first time we plan to do a discussion like this, and as such it will mostly be a test platform for possible future discussions. We plan to announce some ideas regarding the PvP server, and would like to see the community's opinions about them, especially potential new players that may not have started yet.

We will be broadcasting the discussion over Twitch, with questions being answered from Twitch Chat, Tells, and possibly a particular zone.

Join us at the following links:

http://www.twitch.tv/rogean
http://www.twitch.tv/sirkenp99

Saturday, August 31st, at 9:00 PM Eastern.

[Ephi]

Whens velious being released?

[Rogean]

Whens velious being released?

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/0/2639/1220584-fffffuuuuuu_.jpg

[mtb tripper]

september of 2014

[Pringles]

Whens velious being released?

[Nads]

Yesssssss

[Motec]

Whens velious being released?

*When's.

[s1ckness]

SWTOR 55 PvP 720p PTS Ranked
Rogean playing Star Wars: The Old Republic

[runlvlzero]

Every Jedi master needs their inspiration from somewhere. I'm glad they are still curious about their hamsters.

[lite]

Looking forward to it. Perhaps I will bring back the swarm!

[Glorindale]

Great idea guys. I look forward to hearing your ideas.

[Sweetbaby Jesus]

This is a great idea, hopefully people can keep the trolling and stuff to a minimum and make this a serious ordeal. Red99 is hurting and needs some TLC to try and build it back up.

[Amuck]

If this has to do with starting Red 99 over. I'm game. There is nothing more satisfying then slaying another player that causes grief or that just has a big mouth.
Honestly I wish you would create another server that replicates blue99 so that people that don't have 2 years to farm over again can PVP with current gear on blue99. If I lost you, ( because I lost myself) what I'm saying is Copy a blue char: Level , Race , Class , Gear and paste it to a new pvp server. I know quite a few people would totally be loving that. Even though there are far better geared people then me, it would still be fun because loots cost plat, and ya cant buy skills ;p
Rogean whats up with my item poof petition brudda ?!?!

[Labanen]

Love the idea, but you may be opening a can of worms listening to red players, there is some extremely relentless trolls among us.

Anyway i will try hard to be there even though its at 3 am here, cause this is a brilliant idea if it doesnt get trolled to Hell, and it deserves support.

[Smedy]

Prepare your anus, the remixes are coming

[Grox]

Rogean you have to realize by now the only way to save red is switch it to pvp teams and wipe it. If you don't wipe the server don't bother with your Q & A.

[Atmas]

Rogean you have to realize by now the only way to save red is switch it to pvp teams and wipe it. If you don't wipe the server don't bother with your Q & A.

I don't know if you have to wipe it, but teams would be such a win.
Darks
Shorts
Humans
Elves

Getting rid of the xp PvP death was a good move, only wish it had started that way. XP death encourages griefing and discourages more casual players from being on a PvP server.

[Rust1d?]

Keep red99 but create a new teams server. Keep it classic only, no kunark or velious. 3 teams. I'd Be back for that.

[Elderan]

Can't switch to teams at this point.

I am sorry but the only way to get more people playing R99 is to make it more blue. People who love PVP will hate this, but those people are in the minority.

[lecompte]

make it so /who reveals nothing.

[Sirken]

Join the Project 1999 Staff, including Nilbog, Sirken, and Myself, for an open discussion regarding some PvP ideas and possible upcoming changes on Friday, August 23rd, at 9:00 PM Eastern.

This will be a PvP specific discussion. We will not be talking about or answering questions related to other content. This is the first time we plan to do a discussion like this, and as such it will mostly be a test platform for possible future discussions. We plan to announce some ideas regarding the PvP server, and would like to see the community's opinions about them, especially potential new players that may not have started yet.

We will be broadcasting the discussion over Twitch, with questions being answered from Twitch Chat, Tells, and possibly a particular zone.

Join us at the following links:

http://www.twitch.tv/rogean
http://www.twitch.tv/sirkenp99

Friday, August 23rd, at 9:00 PM Eastern.

you can now add Zade to the list as he will be joining us at some point that evening :)

[Dragonsblood1987]

Whens velious being released?


/thread.

[hagard]

I am sorry but the only way to get more people playing R99 is to make it more blue. People who love PVP will hate this, but those people are in the minority.

lol u r such a moran

[Estu]

Are these sessions going to be recorded and put up online afterwards?

[Sirken]

Are these sessions going to be recorded and put up online afterwards?

at a bare minimum ill have the highlights up on my page at www.twitch.tv/sirkenp99

[falkun]

Will you be discussing PVP on Blue? /guildwar and enabling PVP in "non-CSR" zones (since those of us without FD are gimped in the training department)?

[Sirken]

Will you be discussing PVP on Blue? /guildwar and enabling PVP in "non-CSR" zones (since those of us without FD are gimped in the training department)?

we will be discussing Project1999 and PvP. this will be relevant to both current servers and all current players. this is by no means a Red99 or Blue99 exclusive discussion. and i very much encourage all players and guilds to attend.

should you not show up, and should you hate any changes that come from this, you will only be able to blame yourselves for not showing up and offering your 2cp.

this is the first time ever that the Project1999 Staff is going to have a public staff discussion to discuss the future of the entire Project, and there are no promises that it will ever happen again.

[SamwiseRed]

we will be discussing Project1999 and PvP. this will be relevant to both current servers and all current players. this is by no means a Red99 or Blue99 exclusive discussion. and i very much encourage all players and guilds to attend.

should you not show up, and should you hate any changes that come from this, you will only be able to blame yourselves for not showing up and offering your 2cp.

this is the first time ever that the Project1999 Staff is going to have a public staff discussion to discuss the future of the entire Project, and there are no promises that it will ever happen again.

starting to sound epic

[Rust1d?]

Can't switch to teams at this point.

I am sorry but the only way to get more people playing R99 is to make it more blue. People who love PVP will hate this, but those people are in the minority.

I'm thinking keep red99 the way it is. No wipe, nothing. Make a NEW server with teams and classic zones only. Although Kunark/Velious are cool, it just makes it easier to avoid pvp.

[Tyrion]

Go for teams!

Trannies vs druggies

[Edgat]

I don't know if you have to wipe it, but teams would be such a win.
Darks
Shorts
Humans
Elves

Getting rid of the xp PvP death was a good move, only wish it had started that way. XP death encourages griefing and discourages more casual players from being on a PvP server.

I played VZ live and 4 team didn't work there super cross team fest and you think it will work on a 100-200 pop emu server. Maybe 2 or 3 teams could work, but basically you can expect all people in an existing guild to just all jump on 1 of the teams. Hard coded teams helps low lvl people because they have some people that can't attack them so they can find groups easier; however at end game it causes bigger problems than ffa because it either causes cross team guilds or causes one team to be dominant and other teams to have more people quit at top levels

Early into VZ 4team it became light vs dark aka 3 teams vs 1 team
Later into VZ teams became totally ignored and 4 team guilds dominated

Elf team completely worthless lacking monks, sks, necros, shamans
Short Team almost as bad lacking monks, sks, shamans, bards, rangers

darks get the most people due to stat advantages of large race tanks and only lose rangers, druids, paladins

A 2 or 3 team server where every team has access to every mandatory class aka: cleric, warrior, bard, monk, shaman, enchanter

most of these can already be evil, neutral, good with maybe exception of monk and shaman? I think sullen zek had to give them access to additional deities to allow monk to be neutral and shaman good or something or other. Maybe even take it a step further and allow human paladin, druid, ranger to be evil and some race sk, necro to be neutral / good. It seems to defy lore, but 1st who cares about RP from PVP standpoint and 2nd there are extremes in all classes aka a paladin zealot that executes people in the name of his god or whatever. A gnome necromancer who is researching death as a means to extend life etc etc. I don't RP so these are limited examples but should get my point across

[Elderan]

I played VZ live and 4 team didn't work there super cross team fest and you think it will work on a 100-200 pop emu server. Maybe 2 or 3 teams could work, but basically you can expect all people in an existing guild to just all jump on 1 of the teams. Hard coded teams helps low lvl people because they have some people that can't attack them so they can find groups easier; however at end game it causes bigger problems than ffa because it either causes cross team guilds or causes one team to be dominant and other teams to have more people quit at top levels

Early into VZ 4team it became light vs dark aka 3 teams vs 1 team
Later into VZ teams became totally ignored and 4 team guilds dominated

Elf team completely worthless lacking monks, sks, necros, shamans
Short Team almost as bad lacking monks, sks, shamans, bards, rangers

darks get the most people due to stat advantages of large race tanks and only lose rangers, druids, paladins

A 2 or 3 team server where every team has access to every mandatory class aka: cleric, warrior, bard, monk, shaman, enchanter

most of these can already be evil, neutral, good with maybe exception of monk and shaman? I think sullen zek had to give them access to additional deities to allow monk to be neutral and shaman good or something or other. Maybe even take it a step further and allow human paladin, druid, ranger to be evil and some race sk, necro to be neutral / good. It seems to defy lore, but 1st who cares about RP from PVP standpoint and 2nd there are extremes in all classes aka a paladin zealot that executes people in the name of his god or whatever. A gnome necromancer who is researching death as a means to extend life etc etc. I don't RP so these are limited examples but should get my point across

You cannot possibly switch an existing server to set teams.

[mtb tripper]

shut yo whore mouf boy

[Tradesonred]

If i forget about friday:

Heres what i think created big problems for red99:

Staff not realizing (or not acting upon) that letting a zerg guild a free reign into farming raid zones for months was a bad idea, and not realizing or not acting upon that xp loss in pvp made the server in practice a PVE server with 5% of your time spent pvping. I dont play pvp games to pvp 5% of the time. More casual/less knowledgeable people like me didnt give a fuck that item x was put on farm status by an exploit by some player whos grinding them levels hard and way beyond to the level point where i was at. What i did give a fuck about was not alot of people were pvping, making it a boring server compared to Rallos.

Having devs who dont play the server, its especially important to listen to player feedback, and that means unfortunatly trying to weed out what is genuine feedback and fake feedback intended to give yourself an advantage (IE Nihilum saying that xp loss in pvp was not a factor in why they were allowed to sit on raid zones for so long, when in fact it meant them being able to put raid zones on farm status for months/a year+). Now that the main zerg guild has farmed raid zones for months on end, people get discouraged that they will never be able to bridge that gear gap. It was too little, too late.

If there is ever an intention of wiping the server, or starting a new one, heres what i think would have gotten a chance of having numbers close to blue (back in autumn 2011, now that weve burned part of the potential pop, im not sure what numbers can be brought around again):

- 4 lvl pvp, FFA

- Either item loot with patched in custom sets (especially for melee) to offset the harshness of item loot, letting players have at least a couple decent pieces they could never lose. That or an opt-in "deep red" system where you flag yourself for item loot (with having to wait a week or so to turn it off) and can then loot and be looted by other "deep red" players. Most of the damage would have to be done by a deep red for the body to become ready to be looted.

The reason for this is because it gives a purpose to pvp, beyond that "its fun to pvp". 4 noobs with no gear can down a hard twink thats been pissing them off for the last 2 hours and get a really nice piece of gear as a victory prize. It will create an economy for low level items, letting noobs be able to sell the stuff they get along the leveling path.

- No xp loss in pvp

- Custom events, like the Halloween event of 2001, that spawn special mobs in zones that drop no drop loot. Not just level 60 mobs. It creates excitement, it creates fun pvp. Ideally these things can be coded just once, and they are usable an unlimited amount of times by GMs. OR, it can be a quest that doesnt even need GM involvment, like say, gather 20 items of this type, bring it to that NPC, and it spawns event mobs in that zone over there.

- Guards that work

- Resists closer to classic

----

I dont think i will ever play EQ1 ever again after being burned on red, for the record. I will probably mess around with velious when it comes out. I would only entertain the idea of playing on a new P99 server if the xp was shot through the roof to accelerate the leveling, and i mean like 10 times+. Sometimes i dont think the devs realize the amount of time thats needed to be put in for you to level up a character if you dont box a PLer. Thats the people who this slow xp grind advantages. The ones running virtual private networks. It was fine the first time around, but i would not be going through that again, gambling that all these hours put in will pay off in the end, and not end up in a dead server. Im pretty sure theres alot of people on the same boat.

[Swish]

lol, everyone wants more servers... stupid as hell, how many ways do you want to split the population? Before long we'd have "preferred servers" ahead of P99 for population.

Will definitely catch the highlights, it starts at 2AM locally for me... and work starts at 6AM :(

[Zuranthium]

All of my thoughts can be found here - http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=119456

[mtb tripper]

yes let the people decide! Democracy!

[Halius]

- Custom events, like the Halloween event of 2001, that spawn special mobs in zones that drop no drop loot. Not just level 60 mobs. It creates excitement, it creates fun pvp. Ideally these things can be coded just once, and they are usable an unlimited amount of times by GMs. OR, it can be a quest that doesnt even need GM involvment, like say, gather 20 items of this type, bring it to that NPC, and it spawns event mobs in that zone over there.


^^ This. I remember back on live when I was maybe level 20 or so, fighting special mobs in WC for Halloween and getting some pretty decent equips for my character and being really excited about it. It was one of the only times I was able to get decent equipment without having a high level toon to farm shit or pp to buy everything I needed. Was awesome.

[Rogean]

Due to IRL reasons, this has been rescheduled to Saturday, August 31st, at 9:00 PM Eastern.

[Shinko]

why

[Rogean]

why

Due to IRL reasons

????????

[Wrench]

ignore shinko

he's 4 again, so he's kinda back to that stage where kids just repeat 'why' to whatever you tell them

[mtb tripper]

I love the term in real life

[Rogean]

I love the term in real life

I hate your sig.

It's annoying.

[mtb tripper]

I hate your sig.

It's annoying.

good, thats the point mr rogaine foam

[Rogean]

good, thats the point mr rogaine foam

Good thing I can just be like.. *Yoink*

lulz

[mtb tripper]

much appreciated

[heals4reals]

Y U TAKE MY AVATAR OFF ROGEAN U WERE MY IDOL

[mtb tripper]

yes

[Loli Pops]

I hate your sig.

It's annoying.

Pras

[mtb tripper]

Pras

cumdumpster bitch

[Tradesonred]

Copy pasting some commentary on Nihilum/balanced pvp, but relevant feedback if were gonna do an assesment of where pvp server went wrong:

Not out to bash the devs, really appreciate the server being put up. Maybe this can help them make their next project a better success. Would crop it but can never tell if devs read so...

---------------

I kind of pride myself on speaking my mind, no matter which side of the fence im sitting, so here goes.

For the month i was in nihilum, i can honestly say its the less loot whoring environment ive been in. Was handed that dracolich 2h about 2 days in by a random officer. Maybe cuz they out of bank space and swimming in loot (lol) but still a long way from having guildies roll on a really good shaman piece they cant use (fungi), that i would use all the time to pvp for the guild, to put on their lowbie ranger or whatever, which happened to me in azrael, twice. The first time the guy who won and rolled against me was actually already wearing one.

Nihilum though does like that gear gap, doesnt appear to want healthy competition that keeps things interesting for everyone, so unfortunatly, most things ive seen posted here from them, especially dullah, is intended to make them keep that dominance, no matter the consequences on the servers population.

Nihilum should really take a good look at themselves and ask themselves if they really gonna have fun farming pixels on a dead server. I think unfortunatly again the answer is yes, cuz the pvp they seem to be addicted to is gear advantage + overwhelming numbers for cheesy wins. This would not have mattered if people would have been allowed to challenge Nihilum with lower numbers from the get-go, which because of xp loss in pvp, they were prevented from doing. People would have contested them daily and Nihilum would have had to work hard, daily, to get those drops. Not having a free for all, uncontested loot fest for a year straight.

The fault doesnt really fall with Nihilum though. Its the devs who should have stepped in when players (especially persistently annoying people like me) who kept repeating, day in day out, week after week, months after months, that xp loss in pvp only advantages zergs, lets people farm raid zones uncontested, helps griefers bleed out potential new blood out of the server. Id say thats where 95% of where the fault lies. Nihillum and griefers were just using the tools the devs were handing out to them. I think we would have a totally different server if devs had reacted quickly to correct the situation instead of kneejerking ``this isnt cod`` and dismissing valuable player feedback. Players didnt even have to actively think about this, the way the server was set up by the devs at launch, dramatically and by default tipped the balance in favor of guilds that have huge numbers. It was the same story with holocaust when server launched, nobody would go in Guk and challenge them for it. This was pointed out to them from the servers launch, repeatedly. There is no ``maybe you people should stop griefing`` excuse for it.

Protip for would be leaders and players: its just a fucking game. Rolling on a fungi with your chanter against a main shaman is retarded and doesnt build a community feeling where everyone feels theyre sticking up for each other.

I dont think ive ever seen this level of loot whoring in any other game before than here on p99 red, and im not talking about Nihilum. Not totally pissing on azrael, some cool people in it like jezibell.

-Ecoli

[Stasis01]

Few ideas - all have been said many times before.

-Fresh wipe/new box would be very important.

-Improve design to create community, some ideas would be hardcoded teams, increasing EXP bonus per player in group significant enough to promote grouping.

-Variance, doesn't need to be huge - like +/- 12 hrs would even be good to try, so one guild can't farm every raid mob on a sunday at 2pm with a huge number/skilled player advantage knowing the specific spawn times and setting up a rotation where they smash every target back to back, would also create more pvp throughout the week.

-Instant clicks, gate pots, golem wands, trak teeth, conflag wands etc - when the warrens comes out there is a 10 charge clinging darkness clicky might also be worth looking at. Just simply add a cast time to these comparable to the spells they are, gate 5 sec cast, golem wand I don't know 4 seconds or whatever.

The box has seen many upgrades which have helped a lot, global ooc/YT/T staff etc etc - but the community is so fucked currently, and the guild/player situation is fucked beyond repair. I hope you'll realise how disgusting of a box/community this rule set and pvp issues has created and do the right thing pals.

I don't know the dollar values required, but maybe you could have like a fundraising target etc that would be required for a new box - and if the community decides to pay for it and want it maybe give it a shot since I know wiping red99 hurts credibility and what not.

[Stasis01]

And Ecoli what the fuck was that man, holy shit.

[Tikku82]

FFA pvp server just dont work. im 100% sure that TEAM pvp server would be alot more popular.

My 2 cents

[Sweetbaby Jesus]

The community on red isn't suffering because of problem with the box, its because of the 80 people that play here 65 of them are hardcore trolls/greifers. Variance is not going to change the raid scene the way you hope. I left blue because of variance, it makes it even easier for the one big guild to completely dominate all raid targets. Variance is a numbers game and Nihilum is still going to be the biggest guild after variance is put in place. It will just be a pain in the ass having to wake up at different time every night to kill one target. as far as pvp goes changing clickies oculd be a good idea, cause right now everyone keeps a gate pot on em incase that run into pvp too far from a zone line, trak teeth are completely OP and 2 - 5 new ones show up every 3 days something could be done about those.

[mimixownzall]

Synopsis of what will happen:

Rogean will ask for opinions.

Smart people will say that having team PVP will be far superior to the FFA style. Evidence against this will be strong; examples like "why are there no games coming out with FFA pvp" and "the most popular pvp games out all have team based pvp."

The RZ/VZ cronies will then start in with their hypothetical phobias like "EVERYONE WILL JOIN ONE SIDE SINCE THEY ARE WINNING." (although on SZ people switched sides all the time because they got tired of being on the winning team [you know, more people to kill]). The crying will be epic and the squeaky wheel will get the grease.

Result will be some meaningless 'fixes' that might result in a slight surge of population but in the end won't fix the root of the problem: FFA PVP is shit.

[Stasis01]

Nihilum kills every target other than VP or trak on one day back to back - if another raid shows up they will go pvp them first (which is the united states vs an african tribe with spears)

That itself is a broken system that doesn't promote pvp - it griefs the guild that shows up to try to snatch a dragon and gets their ass kicked every time vs full numbers of the #1 guild.

I was in Nihilum for awhile, they aren't strong at off peak times - while variance on blue may not be the answer, on red it would be worth a shot, they just don't have the people to be all in 7 days a week, and it'll show who wants Sev more at 2am for example, since it's all on one day they show up and get it done.

PS Teams isn't about making balance at end game - it's about having a low level/mid level community of players that can work together and not be worried about getting killed in group low hp, killed straight up. On red99 new players are isolated to play solo, most other players are existing high lvls that are looking to grief/YT, and they end up bored/frustrated and end up quitting. With teams you look for backup among team mates, securing zones for the teams etc that build community that should be the focus of these PVP talks.

Everyone knows the resists are fucked - but those aren't core issues that are why red99 sucks.

[mimixownzall]

You will have to worry about 100 people just deciding on a whim that they want to reroll darkies because they are winning.

Ya that's going to work out GREAT! Nothing like giving the server an easier path to join the winning team.

moron

People want to join PVP to PVP. The true pvp'ers will go the side where pvp is plentiful; that is not the winning side. Griefer bitches who don't want a challenge and want to dominate with ease will remain on the winning side. Team pvp makes it easier for those who don't want to be those easymode douches to come together.

Red99 already sees the "Griefer bitches who don't want a challenge and want to dominate with ease." They are in the top guild.

I also find it funny how salty offers his (what he thinks is) expert opinion on how team pvp will fail, yet he strongly supports FFA pvp which is failing thus why we are having this discussion.

[Jimjam]

Get rid of the xp penalty at lower levels.

1) I don't think it is really needed till the 20s (earliest!)

2) some of the most fun pvp is at low levels; shame it gets cut short in my opinion ;)

[Elderan]

Nihilum kills every target other than VP or trak on one day back to back - if another raid shows up they will go pvp them first (which is the united states vs an african tribe with spears)

That itself is a broken system that doesn't promote pvp - it griefs the guild that shows up to try to snatch a dragon and gets their ass kicked every time vs full numbers of the #1 guild.

I was in Nihilum for awhile, they aren't strong at off peak times - while variance on blue may not be the answer, on red it would be worth a shot, they just don't have the people to be all in 7 days a week, and it'll show who wants Sev more at 2am for example, since it's all on one day they show up and get it done.

PS Teams isn't about making balance at end game - it's about having a low level/mid level community of players that can work together and not be worried about getting killed in group low hp, killed straight up. On red99 new players are isolated to play solo, most other players are existing high lvls that are looking to grief/YT, and they end up bored/frustrated and end up quitting. With teams you look for backup among team mates, securing zones for the teams etc that build community that should be the focus of these PVP talks.

Everyone knows the resists are fucked - but those aren't core issues that are why red99 sucks.

Stasis fails to realize what has happened on blue with variance will happen on red. Nihilum would expand their roster by 2x. No longer would they reject 75% of the apps they get but would add builk so they can cover the variance times.

Then when nihilum is rolling with 70+ active members the competition will have ZERO chance.

In variance no one wins.

[Stasis01]

Elderan is about efficiency - which is why transferring from blue to raid on red with back to back raid mobs one day a week sounds very attractive.

He has no concerns over a healthy population/fun/growing server - he will argue EQ PvP has no appeal to most gamers and is just a small niche group and many other pointless arguments that I won't get into - just wanted people to realise where he comes from, and why he says the things he does.

These are all lies and there are ways to make it attract new players, and you will notice a trend among the Nihilum no lifers that all claim the same thing that everything is great. The population, and entire existence of red99 has shown otherwise.

[Tradesonred]

People want to join PVP to PVP. The true pvp'ers will go the side where pvp is plentiful; that is not the winning side. Griefer bitches who don't want a challenge and want to dominate with ease will remain on the winning side. Team pvp makes it easier for those who don't want to be those easymode douches to come together.

Red99 already sees the "Griefer bitches who don't want a challenge and want to dominate with ease." They are in the top guild.

I also find it funny how salty offers his (what he thinks is) expert opinion on how team pvp will fail, yet he strongly supports FFA pvp which is failing thus why we are having this discussion.

Yeah thats why nihilum is so unpopular, cuz cheesy wins is not the fasttrack way to get geared up etc... :rolleyes:

The server failed because xp loss in pvp was removed far too late in the servers life. Theres no way in hell a bunch of PVEers would have been allowed to farm these zones, build up this huge gear discrepancy if people would have been able to guerilla challenge them.

[heartbrand]

Server is awful but variance only helps nihilum. I've pointed this out 100x and I've yet to see a well argued counter to my points. If you think variance helps the little guys check out blue where TMO, the nihilum of blue except even larger, gets almost every target every week. You have a competition of 15-20 people on red, if that, who take hours to mobilize to anything. But yet stasis would have you believe they would somehow manage to create ranger and monk alts (all other tracking sucks now) and plant them at all raid spawns and check them 24:7 then bat phone 20 people and be able to mobilize to the target before nihilum. These are the same people who can't mobilize to targets that they know the spawn time of. Ragefire, a variance mob, was killed by nihilum at a 100% rate for two months. It didn't matter if it spawned at 1am or 1pm we got it and had a solid 20 people show up to the bonus dkp event every time without fail.

Stasis claims nihilum has low numbers during the week. That's an effect of no variance it's not a cause. If there were to be variance nihilum would show up, there would be no pvp because guess what they would log on within five minutes of the bat phone and be at OT ready for port. Actually ill take it a step further. The vast majority of neck beards in my guild will have level 60 alts for each mob parked at the pull spot. This will probably even be incentivized by nizzar with bonus velious dkp. All that will have to be done is one of the big time no lifers like my pal tune or rallyd will see something like VS up and ill log my vs alt on for 15 minutes boom bonus dkp log off for another day.

The only mobs the opposition have ever gotten on red have been because of no variance. Kringe crew was able to get to Trakanon hours before the spawn and set up, and believe me hours to set up is what they needed with that crew. With variance, they aren't getting even five people to TT before trak is killed by our trak alts who will all be perma camped on poop mountain.

I await eagerly the counter that shows how in fact variance will somehow be radically different than as I described and as it has played out on blue. Nihilum will recruit every single person that apps and no longer will I be able to derail app threads by saying we don't need more people, because with variance we will take everyone. Variance will result in less competition if that even seems possible, even less pvp, and a whole lot of threads accusing us of MQ for knowing when mob x spawns (when in reality it will be the fact that tune was there for 22 hours). If anything variance is great for me since I work from home. I can easily log on my different raid alts for five to ten minutes depending on the mob and get triple dkp or whatever nizzar will throw at me as opposed as having to sit through a three hour repop day in one sitting.

P.s variance will make overlapping mobs few and hard to come by which will make velious, an expac that the opposition could flourish in, an absolute disaster. Be careful what you wish for.

[heartbrand]

Copy pasting some commentary on Nihilum/balanced pvp, but relevant feedback if were gonna do an assesment of where pvp server went wrong:

Not out to bash the devs, really appreciate the server being put up. Maybe this can help them make their next project a better success. Would crop it but can never tell if devs read so...

---------------

I kind of pride myself on speaking my mind, no matter which side of the fence im sitting, so here goes.

For the month i was in nihilum, i can honestly say its the less loot whoring environment ive been in. Was handed that dracolich 2h about 2 days in by a random officer. Maybe cuz they out of bank space and swimming in loot (lol) but still a long way from having guildies roll on a really good shaman piece they cant use (fungi), that i would use all the time to pvp for the guild, to put on their lowbie ranger or whatever, which happened to me in azrael, twice. The first time the guy who won and rolled against me was actually already wearing one.

Nihilum though does like that gear gap, doesnt appear to want healthy competition that keeps things interesting for everyone, so unfortunatly, most things ive seen posted here from them, especially dullah, is intended to make them keep that dominance, no matter the consequences on the servers population.

Nihilum should really take a good look at themselves and ask themselves if they really gonna have fun farming pixels on a dead server. I think unfortunatly again the answer is yes, cuz the pvp they seem to be addicted to is gear advantage + overwhelming numbers for cheesy wins. This would not have mattered if people would have been allowed to challenge Nihilum with lower numbers from the get-go, which because of xp loss in pvp, they were prevented from doing. People would have contested them daily and Nihilum would have had to work hard, daily, to get those drops. Not having a free for all, uncontested loot fest for a year straight.

The fault doesnt really fall with Nihilum though. Its the devs who should have stepped in when players (especially persistently annoying people like me) who kept repeating, day in day out, week after week, months after months, that xp loss in pvp only advantages zergs, lets people farm raid zones uncontested, helps griefers bleed out potential new blood out of the server. Id say thats where 95% of where the fault lies. Nihillum and griefers were just using the tools the devs were handing out to them. I think we would have a totally different server if devs had reacted quickly to correct the situation instead of kneejerking ``this isnt cod`` and dismissing valuable player feedback. Players didnt even have to actively think about this, the way the server was set up by the devs at launch, dramatically and by default tipped the balance in favor of guilds that have huge numbers. It was the same story with holocaust when server launched, nobody would go in Guk and challenge them for it. This was pointed out to them from the servers launch, repeatedly. There is no ``maybe you people should stop griefing`` excuse for it.

Protip for would be leaders and players: its just a fucking game. Rolling on a fungi with your chanter against a main shaman is retarded and doesnt build a community feeling where everyone feels theyre sticking up for each other.

I dont think ive ever seen this level of loot whoring in any other game before than here on p99 red, and im not talking about Nihilum. Not totally pissing on azrael, some cool people in it like jezibell.

-Ecoli

If someone tried to roll on a fungi against me who already had one when I didn't I'd loot it and pk him on the spot. Not sure why you didn't do that.

[Tradesonred]

If someone tried to roll on a fungi against me who already had one when I didn't I'd loot it and pk him on the spot. Not sure why you didn't do that.

I was just kind of shocked, both times, that somebody would do that. My thought was how stupid do you have to be to not understand this is the kind of stuff that break guilds apart, just for you to get some pixels. For the cherry on top while i was pulling in King room and could still read local chat, the guy who won said something like this would be great on my lvl16 ranger. Youd expect Random PUGs to do that. Guild group? Twice? Wtf.

I didnt wanna start drama within the guild thats basically the only serious challengers to the main zerg guild here. To be honest if there wasnt people like Jezibell in Azrael i would have left a long time ago, ill leave it at that.

Anyway kind of offtopic here so ill stop being a thread terrorist

[heartbrand]

It's not really off topic at all. Everyone here is brain storming ways to kill nihilum because they think that's how they will improve the server. Be it teams or variance or other changes (which I argue would all be neutral or actually help nihilum). But what these people don't seem to get is that its the players who enable nihilum by being fags like you describe. Everyone hates on the pve pixel whores of nihilum but yet the biggest loot whores all seem to be in the competition. I've never seen people in nihilum roll on fungis vs mains who don't have them. People are always tremendously helpful to port you / help pl for free / help you farm stuff. The attitude is completely different on the other side, I know I've been on both. That's the reason nihilum thrives.

[heartbrand]

Anyone thinking variance will help other guilds compete should be forced to read the current "is the raid scene really that bad" thread on blue and every other variance thread on the blue boards.

[Colgate]

I've pointed this out 100x

stopped reading here; this is true

seek help

[heartbrand]

I remember when that meme was funny when chuck did it 6 months ago.

[Slathar]

I was just kind of shocked, both times, that somebody would do that. My thought was how stupid do you have to be to not understand this is the kind of stuff that break guilds apart, just for you to get some pixels. For the cherry on top while i was pulling in King room and could still read local chat, the guy who won said something like this would be great on my lvl16 ranger. Youd expect Random PUGs to do that. Guild group? Twice? Wtf.

I didnt wanna start drama within the guild thats basically the only serious challengers to the main zerg guild here. To be honest if there wasnt people like Jezibell in Azrael i would have left a long time ago, ill leave it at that.

Anyway kind of offtopic here so ill stop being a thread terrorist

i was in that group and i remember insisting on rolling because you're:
1) a pussy
2) terrible
3) worthless
4) not my friend

hope this clears it up for you

[Drone]

difference between TMO and Nihilum is numbers-- TMO has so much more manpower to realistically cover all the prime raid targets 24/7
you can say that nihilum can just up the recruiting, but how many additional people are there to recruit from? seems like you'd just end up gearing your opposition
opposing guild wouldn't have to try and cover, the pressure would be on nihilum to do that
opposition would just have to make a rotating schedule of 2-3 days where they'd camp nihi trackers and inevitably they'd grab some raid targets, or at the very least force y'all to use up 2-3x more of your teeth

[Elderan]

difference between TMO and Nihilum is numbers-- TMO has so much more manpower to realistically cover all the prime raid targets 24/7
you can say that nihilum can just up the recruiting, but how many additional people are there to recruit from? seems like you'd just end up gearing your opposition
opposing guild wouldn't have to try and cover, the pressure would be on nihilum to do that
opposition would just have to make a rotating schedule of 2-3 days where they'd camp nihi trackers and inevitably they'd grab some raid targets, or at the very least force y'all to use up 2-3x more of your teeth

The point is on such a small box Nihilum would expand to such a large percentage of the server there would be almost no pvp.

Variance would mean less pvp, I think that point has been proven by the logical arguments from HB and others.

Red has two main issues.

There is a group of people who quit the server because they cant get raid mobs. These people are the ones who would never be happy and should not be catered to. Most of these people are small groups who just cannot except being 2nd best.

What red needs is fresh blood. No one is going to say oh red has variance I am going to play there. More would say red doesn't have variance unlike blue so I might play there. Neither of these are a large draw but one more so then the other.

Focus on what would bring people in to play 1-60 and have fun in all non raid ways. Grouping and pvping. These are the issues we need to focus on. The end game raid scene can only handle a small amount of people in comparison to the rest of the game it would be unwise to focus on that.

My suggestions are simple and focus on those areas.

- Group exp bonus. Add a .4 mod for each person in a group. So that a group of 6 would have a 2.4 mod added to the already high mod.
- Remove hybird exp penalty now.
- Safe zones (yes I know pure pvp will hate it but make some safe zones for people to level in)

These are 3 simply suggestions which would go a long way and focus on what we actually need to bring in new blood.

[Tradesonred]

i was in that group and i remember insisting on rolling because you're:
1) a pussy
2) terrible
3) worthless
4) not my friend

hope this clears it up for you

Whats clear is heartbrand is probably right, nihilum wins at recruiting by default because the rest of the pop is mainly anti-social disorder, "edgy" shitbags

[Drone]

Whats clear is heartbrand is probably right, nihilum wins at recruiting by default because the rest of the pop is mainly anti-social disorder, "edgy" shitbags

the fact that they'd have to recruit at all is worth noting, it means less stability, and with the online pop wavering between 50-150 for a long time now, it's a zero-sum game, they'd eventually (guessing sooner rather than later) have to try to recruit folks they don't want

however, they don't have to recruit anyone atm, and that's huge-- they have stabilized in a way that allows them to take down all targets one day a week

this means they only have to sweat pvp one day a week, and for the sake of consistency of course they should spam expendables to plow through opposition and get back to the task at hand: widening the gear gap

they can count on generally full numbers one day a week, probably even 25days a month who the hell knows
but variance gets rid of the one-day-a-week paradigm
if opposition commits to 2-3days a week of killing trackers then we're talking either 2-3x more pvp or nihilum risking targets
other benefits include a percentage of pop that won't be recruited, and the dwindling of a huge (and mindless, read: not fun) pvp advantage in trak teeth

i'm arguing for variance because i want to play pvp, and it should really be considered (unless of course y'all end up doing something super splashy like releasing a new pvp server or something), because unless the pop gets infused with hundreds of folks, nihi's (great) recruiting will outpace any marginal increase in population

and it's not about punishing nihi for doing well, it's about a system that discourages power concentration and encourages pvp

tl;dr? nerdynerdwatchingstartrekrerunsthinkingaboutdumbga mewillnotbeassimilateddopitydopedope

[heartbrand]

you managed to type 6 paragraphs and yet not refute a single point I made

[Drone]

your point:

variance is dumb, look at tmo
activate and watch us out-recruit it

my point:

tmo is way bigger than nihilum
activate and you'll have to try


not saying y'all couldn't bridge the gap, i just don't know where all the new blood will come from or if it will come quick enough before you'd start feeling the effects of variance
the inconsistency means more of your people have to try harder, which is.. hard

[heartbrand]

No, that was one of many points I made. Try reading it again.

[Drone]

The only mobs the opposition have ever gotten on red have been because of no variance.

makes sense

[Elderan]

your point:

variance is dumb, look at tmo
activate and watch us out-recruit it

my point:

tmo is way bigger than nihilum
activate and you'll have to try


not saying y'all couldn't bridge the gap, i just don't know where all the new blood will come from or if it will come quick enough before you'd start feeling the effects of variance
the inconsistency means more of your people have to try harder, which is.. hard


See my post above. If you want to grow the server you are focused on the wrong area of the server. At most the high end raiding scene holds 50 active people right now. Add variance and it will hold 80 active people. That small gain is not what this server needs. The server needs to gain 200-300 more people and the only way to do that is to bring in fresh blood and focus on benefits of non raiding areas. Not try and bring in those tired already burned out people from before who will never stay long term anyway.

[Drone]

See my post above. If you want to grow the server you are focused on the wrong area of the server. At most the high end raiding scene holds 50 active people right now. Add variance and it will hold 80 active people. That small gain is not what this server needs. The server needs to gain 200-300 more people and the only way to do that is to bring in fresh blood and focus on benefits of non raiding areas. Not try and bring in those tired already burned out people from before who will never stay long term anyway.

growing the server is great for everyone and i agree and like some of those ideas you thought of

though i believe variance is an important addition for the red server (it becomes less important with a blue-like population-- though not necessarily detrimental because at least a slower force can contest over here, not just sit around and hope for the tmo to wipe) to encourage competition if we end up leaking folks again (for whatever reason) after making pop gains

[Stasis01]

Holocaust, FF, Force, Azrael, Doming, Heresy, probably missing lots etc etc etc.

There is a population around, plus all the randoms we've lost - they just can't compete with the current ruleset. Nihilum has the thickest beard lets just put it that way, and they have the exact time and place every time to flex their numbers/willingness to stay on top of an advantage gained by time investment/skill.

There are crews around, but this rule set makes you go heads up - which is counter productive to small crews that might be able to assemble/do shit faster. Or just be lucky and have their entire force around doing other shit and a mob spawns at a weird time and are already mobilized and buffed - which was how it seemed on live more often than not.

Either way this is all theory quest and I just look at the history of red99 as well as the current state of red99 and want to puke being this one of the last chances of a decent nostalgic live like pvp box - Rallos Zek policed itself, today gamers aren't so new and pathetic. This is the grief troll age of online gaming bros, the harder you grief the better rep and this ruleset hands it to ya. Shit exp loss alone I can't think of how many hours me and Tyrionn took away from poor party.

[Stasis01]

Nihilum lawyers on the case Elderan and HB who love the 84 pop friday night mostly lowbies/mid randoms because of sunday night DKP farming, and that velious loot.

[heartbrand]

zzzzzz still have yet to respond to my points

[Drone]

lol kk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSzDW3_lR84

[Stasis01]

1:30 AM Saturday 1 Nihilum online - Dangle. Your points are lies my friend.

If Heresy was doing hate right now and inny popped we'd snag 'em.

You're arguing people would play more/recruit more, but I just feel like you're just arguing the topic with the obvious choices/fear mongering because you want easymode low pop box that serves one guild.

[Drone]

The point is on such a small box Nihilum would expand to such a large percentage of the server there would be almost no pvp.

Would expand? Why not expand now? I just have a hard time believing the answer has anything to do with some altruistic urge to encourage competition. To give up an advantage wouldn't be real competition anyways, so I agree with why you'd argue against variance.

[Stasis01]

It's not really off topic at all. Everyone here is brain storming ways to kill nihilum

This is why Heartbrands opinion can't be taken serious, he views all changes to the box on a meter of how much will it help Nihilum - and if it doesn't he'll spew useless counter arguments. It's no secret how he and Elderan think.

I have been the underdog, and I have had the free pixels - from a neutral point of view this box needs big change, or it will continue to be the 100 pop grief troll fest, and the 1 guild PVE progression.

[heartbrand]

Useless counter arguments? You still have yet to respond to any of my points in my post as to how variance will help the opposition and not result in what I said. You think I give a fuck what happens here? I have literally every BiS in the game. I'm immersed in WoW currently and 5.4 launches in 2 weeks. It makes no difference to me, just don't spew bullshit that variance will help when it will cripple the oppositions ability to contest. Just because you're too short sighted or bitter to see it doesn't make it any less true.

[mtb tripper]

wheres the new guild

[Tradesonred]

Useless counter arguments? You still have yet to respond to any of my points in my post as to how variance will help the opposition and not result in what I said. You think I give a fuck what happens here? I have literally every BiS in the game. I'm immersed in WoW currently and 5.4 launches in 2 weeks. It makes no difference to me, just don't spew bullshit that variance will help when it will cripple the oppositions ability to contest. Just because you're too short sighted or bitter to see it doesn't make it any less true.

From my month in nihilum, this is what happens: Raid scheduled at 9, 40 people on. Raid ends, /who nihilum 3 people online.

I doubt nihi could batphone that many people at 2am, which would open an opportunity for the rest of the guilds to work together and down a target, which happened before with dentists/classic etc

[Tradesonred]

To me the server is fubared. It might not be if there was something better than a bunch of cliques using the same guildchat with not much other options if they dont want to join nihilum.

Its gonna be hard either way, to convince people to reroll on a new server or keep playing here with nihilum sucking in 3 out of 4 new player on the server like a vortex. Good luck trying to build up a viable opposition to nihilum with that setup with cards that stacked in their favor after a year of uncontested farming. Im not thinking in terms of taking nihilum down, i really approach it as what setup makes for a thriving, snowballing increasing its pop, fun server.

Im repeating myself (no shit) but the big mistake was xp loss in pvp. Camp control would have been established anyway through pvp without this ridiculous hindrance to contesting which allowed the server to become what it is now.

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit, its the only way to be sure.

[Elderan]

Holocaust, FF, Force, Azrael, Doming, Heresy, probably missing lots etc etc etc.

There is a population around, plus all the randoms we've lost - they just can't compete with the current ruleset. Nihilum has the thickest beard lets just put it that way, and they have the exact time and place every time to flex their numbers/willingness to stay on top of an advantage gained by time investment/skill.

There are crews around, but this rule set makes you go heads up - which is counter productive to small crews that might be able to assemble/do shit faster. Or just be lucky and have their entire force around doing other shit and a mob spawns at a weird time and are already mobilized and buffed - which was how it seemed on live more often than not.

Either way this is all theory quest and I just look at the history of red99 as well as the current state of red99 and want to puke being this one of the last chances of a decent nostalgic live like pvp box - Rallos Zek policed itself, today gamers aren't so new and pathetic. This is the grief troll age of online gaming bros, the harder you grief the better rep and this ruleset hands it to ya. Shit exp loss alone I can't think of how many hours me and Tyrionn took away from poor party.

All of those guilds you mentioned with the exception of Heresy are exactly the people they don't want or need to try and attract back.

At most you would bring back 40-60 people with this. They have proven they wont play unless they can hit raid targets. High end raiding can only support 80ish active people max. Those types of numbers wont get us anywhere, except to try and screw Nihilum which your only objective in this argument for variance.

If you want to fix the server you need to focus on the BULK of the server. NON raiders. Look at blue, they have 80-90 active raiders and then 800 non active ones nightly. That is what needs to be focused on this server. The NON raiders.

[Tradesonred]

If you want to fix the server you need to focus on the BULK of the server. NON raiders. Look at blue, they have 80-90 active raiders and then 800 non active ones nightly. That is what needs to be focused on this server. The NON raiders.

But what do non-raiders have to look forward to here really? Getting smashed to pieces by geared alts who wont be easily deterred because there is nothing on the line for them, IE they never risk losing any gear from running into 4 naked noobs for lulz.

Dont anyone say then bring back xp loss, as the ones eating it were 90% on the casual/ungeared side.

Thats another reason why i think chances at having a rallos like server is gone, we had the opportunity at launch to take the 600 players we had and push the pop up. But since it was a pve heavy, grindy, no-pvp beyond getting steamrolled by a wrecking crew, with a learning curve thats retardedly steep for noobs because you cant practice pvp without eating more huge grind to the face, that didnt happen. These were the people running against the vztz crowd who knew the game inside out and had 45 people lined up to go and grief people off the box with xp loss. It failed because it wasnt fun to pvp like rallos was, no room for growth of pvp players in that griefy, PVE heavy environment where each pvp death adds more pve grind. I dont think there should be no consequences to dying, but a corpse run and having to med to me was punishing enough, considering the ones who are gonna do it most are the new guys trying to learn what works and what doesnt work in pvp.

Of course thats my opinion and i might be wrong, but thats my assesment of it. I was getting steamrolled by twinks on rallos, but i had fun doing it because i kept practicing and getting better at gauging which fights i could win or not. You learned that through pvp, and here you paid a steep price for trying to get better at pvp. We never got to that crushbone/blackburrow/queynos hills pvp scene here, where youre only faintly aware of the raiding scene because its just too fucking fun to pvp rumble it in every zone on the way up. Thats what was cruelly missing from this server when it launched, all that was left was the soul-sucking, mind numbing PVE most of us had been through before. EQ pve nostalgia was a really small puddle to drink from i discovered pretty soon without the pvp to keep it fun.

Had the opportunity to keep those non-raiders you were talking about, but ruleset made sure there was no place for them on the server. So the leftovers are the PVE zerg raiders who won the box because ruleset was tipped in their favor from the beginning and the griefers. Then theres the friendly, helpy guys like me and samwise who will probably never ever will be a force here because theres nothing to gravitate to. If we had kept a healthy pop of semi-casuals with a different ruleset, then things might be different.

You cant turn back time like in that cheesy Cher song where shes riding cannons as if they were huge dicks, i think it will be really hard (see what i did there?) to get back all those people we lost during server early days and dont think theres an infinite pool of people you can attract to an EQ1 pvp box. But im pretty sure it would be easier on a fresh new box with xp loss taken out right in the beggining. Bonus would be it would definitely be harder for a guild like Nihilum to emerge with xp loss not being there to deter contesting of zones.

You also have to try to compute how many people would quit the game if server was rebooted, or if half the pop would quit for a new server that never quite takes off. So yeah my assesment of things is pretty grim beyond a perpetually purple, low pop server.

[Stasis01]

Useless counter arguments? You still have yet to respond to any of my points in my post as to how variance will help the opposition and not result in what I said. You think I give a fuck what happens here? I have literally every BiS in the game. I'm immersed in WoW currently and 5.4 launches in 2 weeks. It makes no difference to me, just don't spew bullshit that variance will help when it will cripple the oppositions ability to contest. Just because you're too short sighted or bitter to see it doesn't make it any less true.

All your points have been crushed into the ground, you just failed to see it. Kringe proved that outside of prime time Nihilum can be beat - anything other than that is pure speculation. We know that heads up no other guild can contest, and has infact quit due to its unfair unbeatable set up. There are plenty of guilds that can mobilize and contest quickly, just not heads up primetime vs Nihilum every week - people just look at the result of the ruleset rather than all the people/guilds we have lost along the way.

The ultimate lie "You think I give a fuck what happens here?"

Yes you keep your raid DKP up for velious loot - that would be a strong indicator of caring. Another gem that shoots all your credibility to shit, anyone reading this must be laughing at how transparent you are as Nihilum's lawyer.

[Elderan]

All your points have been crushed into the ground, you just failed to see it. Kringe proved that outside of prime time Nihilum can be beat - anything other than that is pure speculation. We know that heads up no other guild can contest, and has infact quit due to its unfair unbeatable set up. There are plenty of guilds that can mobilize and contest quickly, just not heads up primetime vs Nihilum every week - people just look at the result of the ruleset rather than all the people/guilds we have lost along the way.

The ultimate lie "You think I give a fuck what happens here?"

Yes you keep your raid DKP up for velious loot - that would be a strong indicator of caring. Another gem that shoots all your credibility to shit, anyone reading this must be laughing at how transparent you are as Nihilum's lawyer.

Like I said, too much attention has been put on such a small section of the server. Need to focus on the 200-300 people we need nightly who will never raid, like on blue.

[Stasis01]

Which is what teams would help with, providing safety/pub groups where people tend to work things out and work together better than FFA. A scaling group experience bonus, REMOVING the 200% so people are actively looking to add numbers to their groups to make it faster, regardless of what class/lvl.

Teams is classic, RZ policed itself in a different era of gaming - it WILL not and HAS not worked here. Current exp bonus favors people PLing solo, or playing solo classes. There is still no incentive to group here, and a lot of the classes create more of a burden than help, and get snubbed.

We tried FFA with logical assumptions, and we tried no variance in the same fashion - THESE THEORIES WERE WRONG, that doesn't mean the idea of EQpvp is dead.

[Drone]

Like I said, too much attention has been put on such a small section of the server. Need to focus on the 200-300 people we need nightly who will never raid, like on blue.

Improving the state of pvp on the pvp server is important though. Newcomers want to see those SS's and videos of epic fights over raid targets, it's something to look forward to, an incentive to keep playing. And people who play on blue want to see that there's actual competition in the end game to even consider coming over.

I'm not saying y'all didn't earn your topdog status, but the lack of variance unnecessarily reduces the difficulty of maintaining that status by lowering the incidence of important pvp encounters (ie contest opportunities).

That being said, of course the non-raiding population should be emphasized and I love the idea of both getting rid of hybrid xp penalties and including an xp bonus for grouping. In addition, low/mid-level players should be able to be involved with the economy. Item loot (with the exception of primary slot?) would benefit all players by constantly stimulating the low/mid-level economy and would encourage pvp at all levels.

It's important to try ideas that encourage pvp because it is the pvp server. The experience should be expressly distinct from blue.

[Tradesonred]

Which is what teams would help with, providing safety/pub groups where people tend to work things out and work together better than FFA. A scaling group experience bonus, REMOVING the 200% so people are actively looking to add numbers to their groups to make it faster, regardless of what class/lvl.

Teams is classic, RZ policed itself in a different era of gaming - it WILL not and HAS not worked here. Current exp bonus favors people PLing solo, or playing solo classes. There is still no incentive to group here, and a lot of the classes create more of a burden than help, and get snubbed.

We tried FFA with logical assumptions, and we tried no variance in the same fashion - THESE THEORIES WERE WRONG, that doesn't mean the idea of EQpvp is dead.

Teams does have the advantage of some form of protection against griefing, but theres no way to balance which side of teams gets stronger. If you dont like most of the people that rolled on your side of the team, or your team is losing, well, tough shit, youre stuck there.

We never really had a good FFA ruleset to begin with, they patched it in much too late and after the dices were already loaded in Nihilum`s favor.

I would totally agree on group xp bonus, but i think you need to attain a certain level of population before it gets patched. If theres a group bonus and no solo bonus, and its hard to find a group, it doesnt help.

[porigromus]

A PvP server would do better if it never had an expansion. The gear from Kunark really hurt PvP. Also no XP loss and x5-x10 times the leveling speed for PvP server would help. No in zone /who and I think personally think the person should be able to loot any 1 piece of equipment no matter if in a bag or equipped. An item can not be looted if in the bank. Last, I the PK could only attack characters withing +/- 5 levels.

If it was a custom server I would say a bounty system should be set up. But that is a complete different story.

[Elderan]

A PvP server would do better if it never had an expansion. The gear from Kunark really hurt PvP. Also no XP loss and x5-x10 times the leveling speed for PvP server would help. No in zone /who and I think personally think the person should be able to loot any 1 piece of equipment no matter if in a bag or equipped. An item can not be looted if in the bank. Last, I the PK could only attack characters withing +/- 5 levels.

If it was a custom server I would say a bounty system should be set up. But that is a complete different story.

Of all the suggestions... Velious is the only one which will solve the vast majority of them.

[Sweetbaby Jesus]

1:30 AM Saturday 1 Nihilum online - Dangle. Your points are lies my friend.

If Heresy was doing hate right now and inny popped we'd snag 'em.

You're arguing people would play more/recruit more, but I just feel like you're just arguing the topic with the obvious choices/fear mongering because you want easymode low pop box that serves one guild.

if there were variance, nihilum would be tracking it and we would undoubtedly batphone and log on the force to kill heresy and inny plenty fast. that just with the force we have now. if variance really was put in all the apps that get denied now would most likely not be getting denied just so we have enough bodies to throw at raid targets at any given time of day. variance wont make life on the number 2 guild any easier. it ruined blue if will do the same here. Greifers need to be ran off the server so that low level population can grow and then the number 2 guild can bolster its numbers to challenge for targets with no variance.

[Stasis01]

Blue 1k+ population - variance ruined blue?

We can't compare apples to oranges it's completely different dynamics for both boxes including very different zone control tactics and due to its low population would have some luck involved being how many are available to help out/keep shit quiet.

The box is a grief shit hole, that doesn't retain new players - yet Nihilum will keep screaming everything is fine and are obviously scared that it won't be as easy as logging in once a week for 5-8 hours to clear the server of every single raid mob that spawns for the week. Maybe they will get every mob still - but it won't be as easy as this and having your entire A team show up at a specific time that's agreeable to the guild every week and shit on any up and coming guild.

Heartbrand said it was possible to log in 5 hours a week and retain a 90% raid attendance - while I think he involved some greasey math, he's true in the fact that people that have everything they need including VP gear can simply log in for minimal time investment and keep every raid mob down - shits classic? No, it's retarded.

If Rogean reads this thread and objectively see's who supports the ruleset, it's 100% Nihilum. The rule set is way too heavy favored for #1, and history has shown this - either every person sucks at leading except Nizzar, or he's just the best on the box and this ruleset allows him to keep 100% control of it.

[heartbrand]

Variance favors poopsockers, all the poopsockers are in nihilum, so to combat the poopsockers you want variance which favors them, lol? You mention Kringe crew and you keep ignoring the point, they got mobs because there was no variance. The biggest weapon opposition will have in velious is the mob overlap. There's no way we can hold Zlandicar down and stop you if you run to snipe dain for example. With variance there's no guarantee mobs will ever be up at the same time, we can park our multitude of alts at all the mobs and keep every single one down. Variance would be amazing for nihilum in velious.

[Stasis01]

The biggest weapon the opposition will have is that overlap for sure, wait what.

Biggest thing Kringe did was brought a zerg of more people than Nihilum had currently logging in - since you are forced to go heads up with the #1 guild at specific time, velious will be no different - except there's enough raid mobs to possibly set up 2-3 days of rotation.

The current rule set favors #1, and the only chance the opposition has is to out zerg and go heads up, there will be no snatching and overlap - the timers are chosen.

I believe Nihilum will be #1, and always be #1 as long as they choose - but this rule set doesn't allow for a second, third, small crews, or really anything other than create a zerg and hope you don't burn out or join them - you can't snatch anything which is what variance allows.

I don't want Nihilum to lose, or to be second - but realistically you won't have any chance at a single raid mob that you would normally have had on live with a smaller guild.

[heartbrand]

And how did they all log on and know to be at trak hours in advance? Was it because they were able to coordinate three days ahead of time since they knew exactly when trak would spawn? Naw naw couldn't of been that at all right?

[Elderan]

The biggest weapon the opposition will have is that overlap for sure, wait what.

Biggest thing Kringe did was brought a zerg of more people than Nihilum had currently logging in - since you are forced to go heads up with the #1 guild at specific time, velious will be no different - except there's enough raid mobs to possibly set up 2-3 days of rotation.

The current rule set favors #1, and the only chance the opposition has is to out zerg and go heads up, there will be no snatching and overlap - the timers are chosen.

I believe Nihilum will be #1, and always be #1 as long as they choose - but this rule set doesn't allow for a second, third, small crews, or really anything other than create a zerg and hope you don't burn out or join them - you can't snatch anything which is what variance allows.

I don't want Nihilum to lose, or to be second - but realistically you won't have any chance at a single raid mob that you would normally have had on live with a smaller guild.

Kringe won a few encounters because he knew the spawn time of a mob, brought 1.5x the numbers of nihilum and setup defensive positions.

This would not happen with variance.

Stasis you claim to want what is best for the server but you are so focused on an issue which will not bring in the number of people needed. We need to add 200-300 active people a day and variance will not have any effect on that.

Focus on NON raid stuff to bring in people, that is where the bulk of the players are. Teams wont work here also because it is too late in the servers existence.

- Group Bonus
- Safe zones (one per level range)
- Something unique, like remove hybird exp penalty and added gnome SK and halfing rangers.

These 3 things alone would add 100-200 nightly active people. The #1 thing though would be velious which would add 300 nightly active people.

[Stasis01]

Kringe brought numbers, with the intention of pushing raid timer into off peak time - remember when we let them kill Trak that late night and Raze kept saying he's not worried at all about this that they would wipe - but really sounded like he wanted to cry, and then they dropped Trak.

Than a server reset put it right back into Nihilums timers - I'm not saying that it's factual, or what actually happened. But it shows that the competition just threw their hands in the air and said fuck it they're not going to go head to head again like that and just quit. Variance would solve all these problems, and resets wouldn't dictate resetting all the preferred timers.

It's the single biggest reason this server has no success at the higher levels of competition currently.

Will it save the server overnight - probably not, a wipe/fresh teams start would be ideal.

[Skywarp]

This a great concept but pvp has been stale for years. Other servers have had velios in p99 forever. Pvp has been run into the ground. Its time to talk Velious cause nothing really else matters

[falkun]

Sweetbaby's from Blue, he understands the "joys" of variance. As he and heartbrand state, variance favors the poopsockers and forces that can log on at any time of day. If you know within 30min when a mob will spawn, you can plan for that. If you don't know when things will spawn (variance), you'll need to be able to field a force at any time of day to respond to the spawn. I'm sure Nihilum is best equipped to respond to spawns at any time of day. If you can't muster the force at the correct time of day when you know when that will be, what makes you think you'll be able to muster it when you don't know when it'll happen?

[Drone]

Sweetbaby's from Blue, he understands the "joys" of variance. As he and heartbrand state, variance favors the poopsockers and forces that can log on at any time of day. If you know within 30min when a mob will spawn, you can plan for that. If you don't know when things will spawn (variance), you'll need to be able to field a force at any time of day to respond to the spawn. I'm sure Nihilum is best equipped to respond to spawns at any time of day. If you can't muster the force at the correct time of day when you know when that will be, what makes you think you'll be able to muster it when you don't know when it'll happen?

Like Stasis said, apples to oranges.

It isn't FTE on red, it's pvp. There's no pressure on Nihilum's opposition to mobilize a raid force whenever a target spawns in hopes of outracing the zerg. They can simply set aside a few nights a week where all their folks can log in, kill nihi trackers, raid some trash, and maybe get lucky with a boss spawning.

When a situation like that occurs Nihilum either a) has enough available members at that particular time to mobilize a raid force and engage the enemy, or b) for whatever reasons, maybe unluckily, they can't get enough folks to win over their target.

Both scenarios are good for competition, which is what you want if fostering a fun and interesting end game on the pvp server is a goal (ie more than one night of pvp a week).

The pressure would be on Nihilum to mobilize a force in every single instance, if they want to continue to nab every target. As it stands, they don't have to worry about batphoning, their members can look forward to logging in only one day a week and grabbing everything, then logging out (ie there goes the neighborhood).

Sure the current system allows both sides to plan an engagement, but from the perspective of a smaller force variance is guerilla warfare to the current system's smashing your dick against the brick wall of the British.

http://i.imgur.com/vNTvR5P.jpg

Again, it's not about punishing Nihilum for doing an excellent job. It's about figuring out a system where maintaining that topdog status isn't unnecessarily easy.

[Elderan]

Like Stasis said, apples to oranges.

It isn't FTE on red, it's pvp. There's no pressure on Nihilum's opposition to mobilize a raid force whenever a target spawns in hopes of outracing the zerg. They can simply set aside a few nights a week where all their folks can log in, kill nihi trackers, raid some trash, and maybe get lucky with a boss spawning.

When a situation like that occurs Nihilum either a) has enough available members at that particular time to mobilize a raid force and engage the enemy, or b) for whatever reasons, maybe unluckily, they can't get enough folks to win over their target.

Both scenarios are good for competition, which is what you want if fostering a fun and interesting end game on the pvp server is a goal (ie more than one night of pvp a week).

The pressure would be on Nihilum to mobilize a force in every single instance, if they want to continue to nab every target. As it stands, they don't have to worry about batphoning, their members can look forward to logging in only one day a week and grabbing everything.

Sure the current system allows both sides to plan an engagement, but from the perspective of a smaller force variance is guerilla warfare to the current system's smashing your dick against the brick wall of the British.

Again, it's not about punishing Nihilum for doing an excellent job. It's about figuring out a system where maintaining that topdog status isn't unnecessarily easy.

Again, you guys are focused on the wrong thing to help the server. Need to focus on NON raid activity, this will bring the best results.

Dont cater to those flame outs who have proven they wont ever be happy. Red needs to change its perception and weed out the griefers or at least bring in good people without mental disorders to counter them.

Variance brings in NO new players, might lose some though.

Changes that will actually bring in NEW players that red desperately needs.

- Group exp bonus
- Safe zones
- Remove hybird exp penalty
- 2 boxing ( I have been debating on this one a long time. Red needs something unique to bring more people in and this would do it.)

Do these 4 things and you will add 200 people nightly to the server population. Add variance and you will most likely lose more people then you gain.

[Drone]

not sure why trying to improve the pvp experience is bad for the pvp server

and next time you quote me, don't filter out the inspirational dwarf head copy/paste kk

[Elderan]

not sure why trying to improve the pvp experience is bad for the pvp server

and next time you quote me, don't filter out the inspirational dwarf head copy/paste kk

There is no point improving pvp unless you can bring in the people to support pvp. This is why I have stayed away from resist/item suggested changes.

Got to understand that EQ PVP as a whole was a limited player base. At EQ1 peak there were 500k active players, of that 25k were PVP which represented 5% of the EQ player base. So if blue has 1k nightly players then you cannot expect more then 10% or 100ish players pvpers on red. You need to entice people to come to play red even if their primary love isn't pvp.

There is a small group of pvpers who have been going from server to server for years now. The VZTZ LOZ groups. These are the people you don't want to cater to as most are burned out at this point anyway and would never last long term.

Red needs to attract a lot of blues over population. There needs to be a reason for people who are tired of blue or quit there to move to red. The ideas I mentioned above would be very enticing for a lot of those people.

[Drone]

I wouldn't think the devs would want the red server to just be the server folks go to when they're tired of blue. They should want both servers to be as successful as possible as unique experiences.

New players want to know that the game will still be fun at higher levels. That's why I spend time thinking about and arguing for the implementation of variance on red. It means a higher frequency of those badass epic battles. The prospect of participating in that kind of gameplay is incredibly attractive. Of course it's the content of classic eq that draws people in, but the opportunity to engage both npc's and pc's is a fun one. There's interest in that, in fun.

On other points we're largely in agreement. Group xp bonus and removal of hybrid xp penalties are totally great ideas. In addition, I'd love to see item loot implemented as it stimulates low/mid-level involvement in both the economy (which would actually exist again for low/mid-level gear) and funtimes pvp (get a group together and show that twink that there can be consequences for trying to flex you out).

However, I'm not as keen on safe zones and boxing. Safe zones maybe could work if very limited, but again, red and blue should be distinct experiences, and with guard assist it doesn't seem necessary for folks very ginger to eq pvp. As for boxing, it just seems like it'd be tricky to implement it on red and not blue. Additionally, it wouldn't pair well with group xp bonus, could become very anti-social, but idk.

[Elderan]

New players want to know that the game will still be fun at higher levels. That's why I spend time thinking about and arguing for the implementation of variance on red. It means a higher frequency of those badass epic battles. The prospect of participating in that kind of gameplay is incredibly attractive. Of course it's the content of classic eq that draws people in, but the opportunity to engage both npc's and pc's is a fun one. There's interest in that, in fun.

The vast majority of blue players despise variance. It would be a HUGE negative to them if it were to be implemented here. With velious coming the number of raid targets are going to increase 4 fold. Many are on factions where one guild logically cannot and would not want to kill them all. This alone will open up almost as many raid targets as kunark has to other guilds.

On other points we're largely in agreement. Group xp bonus and removal of hybrid xp penalties are totally great ideas. In addition, I'd love to see item loot implemented as it stimulates low/mid-level involvement in both the economy (which would actually exist again for low/mid-level gear) and funtimes pvp (get a group together and show that twink that there can be consequences for trying to flex you out).

Item loot would just be terrible for this server. It would force people to not want to go anywhere near pvp unless they are in ganking mode.

However, I'm not as keen on safe zones and boxing. Safe zones maybe could work if very limited, but again, red and blue should be distinct experiences, and with guard assist it doesn't seem necessary for folks very ginger to eq pvp. As for boxing, it just seems like it'd be tricky to implement it on red and not blue. Additionally, it wouldn't pair well with group xp bonus, could become very anti-social, but idk.

Safe zones would allow people a break from pvp when they dont really desire it. I would keep them limited though I agree. We dont want to turn this into a blue server but we need to compromise to bring more people in.

I am torn a 2 boxing. I personally hate seeing it on raids and groups but it alone would offer a very unique experience to people on p99.

[Drone]

The vast majority of blue players despise variance. It would be a HUGE negative to them if it were to be implemented here. With velious coming the number of raid targets are going to increase 4 fold. Many are on factions where one guild logically cannot and would not want to kill them all. This alone will open up almost as many raid targets as kunark has to other guilds.

Firstly,

I wouldn't think the devs would want the red server to just be the server folks go to when they're tired of blue. They should want both servers to be as successful as possible as unique experiences.


Fun and interesting pvp is its own promotion on a pvp server (though, of course, that's not all the promotion it needs atm, we're in agreement there). More big fights means more awesome vids. Variance is just a word that means more big fights on a pvp server.

I'm worried about Velious, without encouraged competition pre-release, Nihilum could very well just re-stabilize after a couple months which may end up meaning a bigger ghost town.

[heals4reals]

And how did they all log on and know to be at trak hours in advance? Was it because they were able to coordinate three days ahead of time since they knew exactly when trak would spawn? Naw naw couldn't of been that at all right?

Actually we were farming juggs when he popped on trak and we rallied the forces. Thanks for trying. +1 for variance yall.

[heals4reals]

Elderan your posts are very annoying. You joined this server 4 months after kunark launched got plvled to join nihilum and are only seen online during the 1 day a week raids.

You dont know who is who or whats good for server. Stop posting.

[Elderan]

Firstly,

Fun and interesting pvp is its own promotion on a pvp server (though, of course, that's not all the promotion it needs atm, we're in agreement there). More big fights means more awesome vids. Variance is just a word that means more big fights on a pvp server.

I'm worried about Velious, without encouraged competition pre-release, Nihilum could very well just re-stabilize after a couple months which may end up meaning a bigger ghost town.

Variance would be smaller fights.

Trak pops at 4am. Bat phone goes out, Nihilum has 20 online in 15 min. Competition has 20 online lets say.

Trak spawns at 10pm. The competition has 45 sitting waiting in seb. Nihilum brings 35 people. There are now a 80 person pvp about to go down. This example actually happened.

You tell me which one is bigger...

[Elderan]

Elderan your posts are very annoying. You joined this server 4 months after kunark launched got plvled to join nihilum and are only seen online during the 1 day a week raids.

You dont know who is who or whats good for server. Stop posting.

Pretty sure this is rettiwalk.. How many times have you been banned now?

Have a nice day.

[Drone]

Variance would be smaller fights.

Trak pops at 4am. Bat phone goes out, Nihilum has 20 online in 15 min. Competition has 20 online lets say.

Trak spawns at 10pm. The competition has 45 sitting waiting in seb. Nihilum brings 35 people. There are now a 80 person pvp about to go down. This example actually happened.

You tell me which one is bigger...

both are big, need more of all of it

[Sweetbaby Jesus]

Stay away from variance. Let blues copy to red. I've argued about variance being poison on blue for a long time, as have many others. I'd be willing to bet there are plenty of blues that would play red if it didn't mean starting from scratch and losing everything they worked for on blue.

[heals4reals]

Pretty sure this is rettiwalk.. How many times have you been banned now?

Have a nice day.

U dont know who rettiwalk is ur just regurgitating other anti server growth propogada. Oooohhhh forum bans ooohhhhhhh.

[Stasis01]

No variance = heads up vs Nihilum considering they have shown that they won't take a raid day off in the two years since creation.

No guild can go heads up vs Nihilum, all that have tried realised it's pointless and quit, resulting in the end game where it's at now.

There is a reason there is no competition - Nihilum won, and this rule set allows 1 guild. You can't spin this any other way, although the people heavily invested in the PVE aspect of Nihilum and red99, which is why you see all those people arguing against it so badly.

I am not saying variance will fix all the servers problems, and certainly won't touch on the community issues that FFA has created.

But there will be no competing guild with static spawn timers and FFA. If you enabled PVP on blue every guild but TMO would quit, as noone would be able to go heads up vs 80+ people.

[Stasis01]

Comparing variance on blue to variance on red doesn't make sense, seeing as the other guilds on blue don't fight TMO heads up for zone control - please stop saying stupid shit Sweetbaby Jesus.

[Stasis01]

PVP enabled on blue, and no variance added in for a month - that would be the only way to show the true devastation of this ruleset.

[Elderan]

No variance = heads up vs Nihilum considering they have shown that they won't take a raid day off in the two years since creation.

No guild can go heads up vs Nihilum, all that have tried realised it's pointless and quit, resulting in the end game where it's at now.

There is a reason there is no competition - Nihilum won, and this rule set allows 1 guild. You can't spin this any other way, although the people heavily invested in the PVE aspect of Nihilum and red99, which is why you see all those people arguing against it so badly.

I am not saying variance will fix all the servers problems, and certainly won't touch on the community issues that FFA has created.

But there will be no competing guild with static spawn timers and FFA. If you enabled PVP on blue every guild but TMO would quit, as noone would be able to go heads up vs 80+ people.

So the way to repair the box is to focus on non raid people.

Thanks for proving my point.

[Rec]

I had to register just for what's happening recently and the comments about a Sullon Zek like ruleset. It was the most popular retail pvp server for the time it was alive. I agree it's a great lure to bring in the casuals because they immediately see the appeal of having the "help" of a team over an FFA environment. These are the people you need for any pvp server to survive unless you like playing with these low numbers of course. However lets not have any faulty memory here, the retail server was dominated by the evil team and the guild <HATE> much like I see people talking about the situation on p99 red. If you do decide to go with teams it has to be everyone vrs Evil, that's the only way you're going to get enough competition

[Stasis01]

Incorrect, and anyone who doesn't have as much invested in the current system as you will see through what you're doing.

I speak truth, have nothing against Nihilum or the other side - you are a member of Nihilum satisfied with a 1 guild raid scene gaining off a broken system, giving useless ideas to distract people from the core issues, one of which being no variance.

[Stasis01]

^ To Elderan

[Stasis01]

I had to register just for what's happening recently and the comments about a Sullon Zek like ruleset. It was the most popular retail pvp server for the time it was alive. I agree it's a great lure to bring in the casuals because they immediately see the appeal of having the "help" of a team over an FFA environment. These are the people you need for any pvp server to survive unless you like playing with these low numbers of course. However lets not have any faulty memory here, the retail server was dominated by the evil team and the guild <HATE> much like I see people talking about the situation on p99 red. If you do decide to go with teams it has to be everyone vrs Evil, that's the only way you're going to get enough competition

Every server was dominated - not every server had a wasteland empty server which becomes populated 1 day of the week that raid mobs spawn.

I have pleaded my case - it's in the hands of the gods rogean and nilbog, I really don't have much time to play these days anyway. But seeing a potentially awesome pvp server ruined by a buggy rule set that doesn't allow for competition to take any course of action instead of heads up zerg wars rustles my jimmies.

With the current rule set, and population - there's no fucking way velious will make a god damn difference.

Peace out thread, like the lorax I speak for the server, and not the personal interests of people that wish to exploit it.

[Sweetbaby Jesus]

Comparing variance on blue to variance on red doesn't make sense, seeing as the other guilds on blue don't fight TMO heads up for zone control - please stop saying stupid shit Sweetbaby Jesus.

OK sorry you're right. Its stupid to think the biggest guild on the server wouldn't win at logging more people in at any given time, as well as have more people willing to track for those precious dkp, AND grief the shit out of the competitions trackers....my bad. Didn't mean to upset the all knowing stasis.

[Runya]

Jeeez just allow transfers from blue already and get rid of hybrid penalty......shits obvi

[Dacuk]

hoping to see discussion around the future of clickies - especially trak tooths/wands. shit really takes away what pvp is supposed to be about - skill and knowledge of the matchup/scenario.

[big league chew]

Every server was dominated - not every server had a wasteland empty server which becomes populated 1 day of the week that raid mobs spawn.

I have pleaded my case - it's in the hands of the gods rogean and nilbog, I really don't have much time to play these days anyway. But seeing a potentially awesome pvp server ruined by a buggy rule set that doesn't allow for competition to take any course of action instead of heads up zerg wars rustles my jimmies.

With the current rule set, and population - there's no fucking way velious will make a god damn difference.

Peace out thread, like the lorax I speak for the server, and not the personal interests of people that wish to exploit it.

lol didnt you used to train your ex pals, all for nihilum and all for pixels??

bad

[Stasis01]

Yes I fought/raided for Nihilum for a fair bit of time, and was rewarded lots of gear - which should add to my credibility, I am not a bitter player with an agenda for either side. If no one targets me here I'll stop responding to this thread, I've said my piece.

I don't care if people are mad or not about me speaking the truth though about the server.

Chewie would be a box hero if he played for a team, as he would be defending guk from others invading. Here, he's just a griefer that cockblocks lowbies in Guk and actually hurts the server - on TZ Chewie would be a dark team hero, and noobs would praise him for his protection.

Down with FFA.

[big league chew]

yeh i better join nihilum so im credible too
put in a good word for me

lals

[Sektor]

Yes I fought/raided for Nihilum for a fair bit of time, and was rewarded lots of gear - which should add to my credibility, I am not a bitter player with an agenda for either side. If no one targets me here I'll stop responding to this thread, I've said my piece.

I don't care if people are mad or not about me speaking the truth though about the server.

Chewie would be a box hero if he played for a team, as he would be defending guk from others invading. Here, he's just a griefer that cockblocks lowbies in Guk and actually hurts the server - on TZ Chewie would be a dark team hero, and noobs would praise him for his protection.

Down with FFA.

Well said. Chewie is a joke. Killed the guy 4 times.

[big league chew]

u wish

p.s. ur just another high-credibility nilly reject ehehehe
gear is a crutch so y u limpin??

[Stasis01]

u wish

p.s. ur just another high-credibility nilly reject ehehehe
gear is a crutch so y u limpin??

Trying too hard to look cool? 10/10

http://www.p99pvp.com/playerdetail.aspx?player=Chewie

Nice kills chewie, def goin for those big targets.

[big league chew]

http://www.p99pvp.com/playerdetail.aspx?player=Chewie

http://static.tumblr.com/998cdabe11e5de5f9606150f9b31d19d/ebrdf39/Tsjmh536m/tumblr_static_sickburn.gif

[big league chew]

i was talkin to the other ex nilly btw

delete & uninstall
(thats to both of you)

[heartbrand]

yeh i better join nihilum so im credible too
put in a good word for me

lals

Want me 2 be ur sponsor? Can prolly get u soul leech ASAP on that accelerated path to membership for a pal

[runlvlzero]

HB needs to be banned from all serious discussion about this server. His only goal is to troll from the safety of soulfires and Nihilum and a dead server. Sounds like he has a personal beef against the game itself. Its bad when you hate an inanimate object so much man. I heard your voice cracking when you were trying to be funny on dracolitche. A little emotion in thar...

[pharmakos]

i started watching, but i don't play on Red much and didn't have the patience to listen to 2 hours of discussion on it.

nevertheless, i am curious about what got discussed.

can anyone recap the major points from this?

[Porz]

i started watching, but i don't play on Red much and didn't have the patience to listen to 2 hours of discussion on it.

nevertheless, i am curious about what got discussed.

can anyone recap the major points from this?

Sz99 Coming soon!

[mtb tripper]

here goes

[Gustoo]

Seriously can anyone re cap?

I was busy real lifeing this weekend and totally forgot about the discussion.

[runlvlzero]

I PM'd u Sirkens links and a short short summary.

[Sirken]

incase u missed it

Big Rogean's pristine version:
http://www.twitch.tv/rogean/c/2858492

[n00b_007]

If I missed this I apologize as I didnt read through all the pages.

Was there any talk about making the Teams PVP server where languages played a role in communication?

For example each Team would have their own "Common Language" that they would use to understand. However if someone from a different Team came along they would either: A) Not be able to understand other Teams/Race permanently or B) Could learn the language but would have to invest time in it.

So wondered if languages might have discussed? I didnt hear any in Round Table discussion.

[raff01]

I might be wrong but doesn't like 90% of the whole population give a darn about PvP and is rather worried about how long Kunark has been out, how crappy the economy has become?

[Something'Witty]

Pras Sirken for issuing an update:
we are still in discussion stages. work will not begin until needed fixes to the current red server are implemented. so as we said when we announced it, no eta for launch. when i have actual info, ill pass it along. until then we;re still in the idea stage.

[Something'Witty]

Pras Nilbog too!
The new pvp developer has been hard at work. You should expect to see great changes as well as an introduction with the next patch.

[Swaggen]

update your post let us know what is happening i want to play on the new server but im waiting on it and want play on red99 till this comes out so plz let us know something and if u wait a year on the new server eq next will be here soon so think about it :confused: