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View Full Version : Patch Notes, Tuesday July 13th


Rogean
07-13-2010, 05:21 AM
CODE

Rogean: Super Secret Stuff
Haynar: Sending targeted tells to a corpse will now send the tell to the corpse’s owner if they are online.
Haynar: Adjusted some pet stats.
Haynar: Casting fear on fear immune mobs, will now generate hate.
Haynar: Healing pets will no longer be a greatly hateful act in most cases.
Haynar: Pets should now dual wield again for all pet levels summoned by the appropriate spells.
Haynar: Canceling trades will now correctly tell each client who performed the cancellation.
Haynar: Fix for mobs creeping closer and closer to targets.
Bumamgar: Reduced the efficacy of all non-Cleric cast heal spells by 10%
Bumamgar: Removed the sharing of Hell Level XP penalties with the group

Content

Nilbog: Captain Tillin will now accept the Blackburrow Stout note provided by Larsk.
DOACleric: Small changes made to boats in the hopes they will no longer appear underwater
DOACleric: Guard spawn times normalized to their dungeon npc equivalents
DOACleric: Several npc's are no longer stuck in a mountain in butcherblock

Kazzok
07-13-2010, 05:26 AM
In my first fight since the patch, my pet spent half the time in the wall, and then the mob walked right through one while he was fleeing - not a little bit either. Was anything changed with pathing?

Uaellaen
07-13-2010, 05:41 AM
Haynar: Sending targeted tells to a corpse will now send the tell to the corpse’s owner if they are online.

I love you, marry me >< NAO

Sadad
07-13-2010, 05:42 AM
Was the 10% less healing classic and we've just waited 9 months to do it? Why?

Walabaego
07-13-2010, 05:42 AM
In my first fight since the patch, my pet spent half the time in the wall, and then the mob walked right through one while he was fleeing - not a little bit either. Was anything changed with pathing?

Pathing changes happened not long ago, you can really see the difference in Dungeons, I /Tip-of-the-hat for that :)

Kazzok
07-13-2010, 05:47 AM
Pathing changes happened not long ago, you can really see the difference in Dungeons, I /Tip-of-the-hat for that :)

Hmm. Well, in this case I think it actually was worse than before the patch. I was killing a WFP guard by the NFP zone the other day and the pet didn't have trouble attacking, and he didn't crawl off into a wall to die then either. I'm happy if it's improving in dungeons though :)

Rogean
07-13-2010, 05:51 AM
Shouldn't have been anything changed with pathing. Let me know if it keeps up.

Zordana
07-13-2010, 05:57 AM
almost all changes are AWESOME!!! <3

tho its a bit sad to see the 10% heal reducing come, druids/shamys are already bad enough in healing ;)

SUSUGAM
07-13-2010, 06:06 AM
Anywhere that we can get some details on the pet stat changes? Hp seems pretty noticeably reduced, and max level bumped up one or two? Not sure. :D

Noleafclover
07-13-2010, 06:53 AM
DOACleric: Guards (basically) removed from the game

Sad panda, but I figure you did it cause of all the exploiting going on in some places. Still, you owe me 20p for my port out of Tox =p

SUSUGAM
07-13-2010, 08:21 AM
Bumamgar: Reduced the efficacy of all non-Cleric cast heal spells by 10%



Was this meant to affect pet heals as well? It seems to be. Also, was this in classic? :( I never played a healer back then.

Zordana
07-13-2010, 08:31 AM
i had a druid twink back on live but i do not remember to get any values of heals (You healed Bla for 300 points of damage), i only remember: Blabla feels [[very] much] better - tho not sure about that very ;)

Walabaego
07-13-2010, 08:43 AM
Shouldn't have been anything changed with pathing. Let me know if it keeps up.

Ahh my mistake, thought I saw a patch talking about improving pets pathing...sure does seem like something was done :P I have noticed more pet/mob stuck on top of each other lately though...

zeval31
07-13-2010, 09:29 AM
what is DOACleric ?

Molitoth
07-13-2010, 10:19 AM
Bumamgar: Removed the sharing of Hell Level XP penalties with the group

Nice.

Chodan
07-13-2010, 10:50 AM
So guards now spawn on a 28 min timer instead of 6?

Lazortag
07-13-2010, 10:51 AM
DOACleric: Guard spawn times normalized to their dungeon npc equivalents


What does this part mean?

Great stuff guys!

Aeolwind
07-13-2010, 10:52 AM
what is DOACleric ?

Been one of the content devs for like months.

Hive
07-13-2010, 12:14 PM
Nice work and some interesting changes, targeted corpse tells sounds awesome.



Haynar: Adjusted some pet stats.


Could this be explained a bit more please?

jerkstore
07-13-2010, 02:12 PM
Why is gheal being reduced in healing power? Is it possible to lower mana cost as well? Here are the versions of Gheal:

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhistory.html?id=15&source=Test

Please note that on 2005.5.09 the mana cost was changed from 150 to 115.

nilbog
07-13-2010, 02:23 PM
Why is gheal being reduced in healing power?

Because the healing penalty was present throughout the scope of this project.

July 24, 2002. (http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20020724.html)

Removed 10% healing penalty for non-clerics.Is it possible to lower mana cost as well? Here are the versions of Gheal:

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhistory.html?id=15&source=Test

Please note that on 2005.5.09 the mana cost was changed from 150 to 115.The correct mana cost for greater healing is 150 mana. We aren't here to make things non-classically easier.

jerkstore
07-13-2010, 02:26 PM
What source is this geo-cities imitator page from?

Toony
07-13-2010, 02:27 PM
What source is this geo-cities imitator page from?

Lucy?... or www.tski.co.jp?

jerkstore
07-13-2010, 02:29 PM
Lucy?... or www.tski.co.jp?

The .jp site.

Toony
07-13-2010, 02:33 PM
The .jp site.

They've been around for awhile, Japanese archive/mapsite. Those patch notes are verbatim copies of the originals.

jerkstore
07-13-2010, 02:36 PM
Alrighty then

Mountaineer
07-13-2010, 03:05 PM
The 10% less healing sucks! It also affects all regen/type spells too!

mmiles8
07-13-2010, 03:07 PM
I posted this over on the July 5th notes, sorry it came after you'd done the work.

But the pets dual wielding was correctly tied to the level of the pet rather than the spell in classic. Eventually pets would be changed to always summon as the highest level, which is why more recent sites simply list a certain spell as being a "dual wield" pet.

Q: At what level will a Necromancer pet be able to dual weild?
A: Necromancer pets can often wield from Level 24 up, and reliably from Level 29 and up. (http://web.archive.org/web/20010124090400/eq.castersrealm.com/faq/faq.asp?Action=Show&Class=Necromancer)

And here are more details

Q: At what level do Enchanter pets start dual wielding?
A: Enchanter pets can dual wield from Level 29 onwards. (http://web.archive.org/web/20001018072820/eq.castersrealm.com/faq/faq.asp?Action=Show&Class=Enchanter)

Q: When do Magician Pets get duel wield?
A: Pets summoned after Level 20 have the ability to dual wield. This will increase the number of attacks which they can do each round. (http://web.archive.org/web/20010528183427/eq.castersrealm.com/faq/faq.asp?Action=Show&Class=Magician)

mmiles8
07-13-2010, 04:12 PM
The 10% less healing sucks! It also affects all regen/type spells too!

Not if it's coded properly. Clerics don't get regen/chloroplast. As a spell that they did not share in common, they were tuned with this in mind and always gave 5/10 hp regen, even before the healing reductions were removed.

PureLo
07-13-2010, 05:34 PM
I don't know, i love P99 and real EverQuest once again. I appreciate the time and effort that is put in by everyone that makes this happen. I just wish that the devs would make up their mind whether or not they want to make this FULL classic or FULL customization... because the mix of somewhat classic with somewhat customization is kind of meh in my opinion. I don't think taking away things that are classic just based off of a hunch or complaints to potentially make the game "feel" better... is good at all if that is even the reason for them being made. It says LEGIT real timeline progression... yet we get random changes that aren't classic that effect the game pretty major.

/rant

But i would like some consistency please, EQ was EQ no need to mess around with tests/changes here.

Lazortag
07-13-2010, 05:37 PM
I don't know, i love P99 and real EverQuest once again. I appreciate the time and effort that is put in by everyone that makes this happen. I just wish that the devs would make up their mind whether or not they want to make this FULL classic or FULL customization... because the mix of somewhat classic with somewhat customization is kind of meh in my opinion. I don't think taking away things that are classic just based off of a hunch or complaints to potentially make the game "feel" better... is good at all if that is even the reason for them being made. It says LEGIT real timeline progression... yet we get random changes that aren't classic that effect the game pretty major.

/rant

But i would like some consistency please, EQ was EQ no need to mess around with tests/changes here.

Most of the non-classic elements are either (a) to fix really egregious bugs from the classic era or (b) things that are client-related that the GM's have no control over (yet?).

nilbog
07-13-2010, 05:38 PM
I don't know, i love P99 and real EverQuest once again. I appreciate the time and effort that is put in by everyone that makes this happen. I just wish that the devs would make up their mind whether or not they want to make this FULL classic or FULL customization... because the mix of somewhat classic with somewhat customization is kind of meh in my opinion. I don't think taking away things that are classic just based off of a hunch or complaints to potentially make the game "feel" better... is good at all if that is even the reason for them being made. It says LEGIT real timeline progression... yet we get random changes that aren't classic that effect the game pretty major.

/rant

But i would like some consistency please, EQ was EQ no need to mess around with tests/changes here.

Can you provide an example of something that we intentionally changed to be non-classic in these patch notes?

mmiles8
07-13-2010, 05:38 PM
They're doing the best that they can with sketchy, inconclusive, and hard to find information. Where I come from, if you come with a complaint in one hand, you'd better come with a solution in the other.

oldhead
07-13-2010, 05:40 PM
Bumamgar: Removed the sharing of Hell Level XP penalties with the group


Good move!!!

Super Secret stuff???? :scared:

Bumamgar
07-13-2010, 05:41 PM
The 10% less healing sucks! It also affects all regen/type spells too!

I'll test and verify this (and fix if it's true).

FYI: there's a "Bugs" forum that is a better place to report such issues.

oldhead
07-13-2010, 05:45 PM
Druids UNITE and protest this healing change!!!

All ports are 50pp per head. No more for donations 10p crap. FIFTY PLAT!!!!


Always looking for an excuse to make more plat for a port

Toony
07-13-2010, 05:47 PM
Druids UNITE and protest this healing change!!!

All ports are 50pp per head. No more for donations 10p crap. FIFTY PLAT!!!!


Always looking for an excuse to make more plat for a port

All Clerics UNITE and stop ressing druids to protest this port rate hike!!!

oldhead
07-13-2010, 05:49 PM
They're doing the best that they can with sketchy, inconclusive, and hard to find information. Where I come from, if you come with a complaint in one hand, you'd better come with a solution in the other.


werd


also this


Registered Name: Project 1999
Server Type: Legit, PvE
Class: Legends
Server Owner: nilbog
Website: http://www.project1999.org
Description: Project 1999 is the re-creation of Everquest as it was in 1999 to the best of our ability. Many changes have been made to return spawns, drops, items, mechanics, and more to their original design. Visit the website for information and the setup guide.

oldhead
07-13-2010, 05:49 PM
All Clerics UNITE and stop ressing druids to protest this port rate hike!!!

You have to be able to res first to protest ;p

Aposi
07-13-2010, 11:32 PM
Seriously change guards back. they were not a 22/28 minute spawn timer on classic, they were 6-12 minutes and guards are there and have been there for players that are new to the game (not me but friends of mine) that can't get on list for a camp to waste hours of their lives camping and not even getting a single item.

They have not really hurt anything with players killing them, just changed to your own liking to slow leveling down or money making down for those that can't get into those camps that people solo to make mass money where others can't. For example, Frenzied, Lord, King, in Lguk. 90% of the time it's being soloed, Guards were the alternative to make money and exp. How in return to the players is this fair to change the respawn timers?

mmiles8
07-14-2010, 12:01 AM
The Progression of Guard Changes on Live


DECEMBER 8, 1999

A number of NPC guards have received an increase in stats.

MAY 12, 2000

As we are sure many people are aware, there are guards that exist specifically for the purpose of giving new characters a place to run in order to be saved from a certain death. However, as many people have mentioned, these guards are frequently either dead, or engaged by players choosing to hunt them. This makes things very frustrating for newer players, and with the large influx of new players due to the release of EverQuest: The Ruins of Kunark, we decided that a change was warranted.

Though we do not have a problem with players choosing to hunt guards, the newbie guards themselves, specifically the ones at the gates of cities and in the vicinity of newbie zones, need to remain alive under most circumstances. To that end, we have buffed up these newbie-protecting guards, made them immune to magic, and given them some pretty good healing properties, in order to make them less attractive to people hunting them.

In addition, though we have left the guards inside cities as-is from the perspective of power, we've also found a problem with the respawn rate. Previously they were typically on a six-minute timer, making them spawn much faster than an equivalent NPC would in a dungeon. We have normalized the respawn time of guards inside cities to bring them in line with dungeon NPCs.

MAY 16, 2000

Several problems with the guards that were buffed up last week have been addressed. Some guards that should not have been buffed have been fixed. In addition, due to the level of the new guards, they all gained the ability to innately see-invisible. The level of those guards has been reduced so that they no longer automatically get this ability, making it a bit easier to sneak by them.

Aposi
07-14-2010, 12:11 AM
i stand by never waiting that long for a guard to spawn, in 99, to 2002 when i still killed guards.
But whatever floats your boat.

PureLo
07-14-2010, 12:17 AM
i like mmiles bringing in data to back up his sourcing.... but since i do not quite know what exactly your argumentation is whether it is FOR this particular change in this patch or AGAINST this particular change in this patch.

So to begin if you are FOR this change being in this patch... i would have to say that your proof counteracts the changes of this because as you can read before your bold print toward the end of the first paragraph it clearly states due to the release of EverQuest: The Ruins of Kunark with that being said this is still classic and following the progression the changes shouldn't have yet been made since Kunark has yet to be released on this server.

If you are AGAINST the changes being made within this particular patch... than your proof is quite a legitimate argument to pose towards your stance.



To other comments...I do however take notice that being this era of the game is very old it is hard to find circumstances where you can get all the correct information for coding and that is fine. The small instances weren't exactly what i was referring to that could improve the game to take away glitches or bugs, rather the ones being made to greatly effect the feel of the game being "classic" or "customized"

I am not just commenting about this patch alone Nilbog, but many patches over the course of the past few months contributing changes effecting the game greatly in either a pure "classic" manner or a pure "customization" manner. I am enjoying the game regardless, i just hear a lot of people muttering things and figure i would say something on their behalf in the thread since a lot of them are not doing so for themselves. My only stance is i don't want to see the EQ i once knew and love get turned into something it is not with numerous customized changes unless we are told that is the direction you all want to take. I see it still being advertised as the age old MMO many people grew to love, so i just expect those types of changes to happen is all.

bionicbadger
07-14-2010, 12:19 AM
I soloed guards in freeport well into the velious period and it was no where near a 20 minute spawn.

Aposi
07-14-2010, 12:21 AM
I actually did not notice that in the post PureLo, Thanks. So i am not crazy. i knew that they did not change the guard timers all the time i was camping the guards. So in other words Take the patch back or at least the guard change and wait til kunark like classic, Thank you.

Kani
07-14-2010, 12:43 AM
Really don't understand the changes in the Guard spawn timers. I figured they were going change them when they release Kunark, along with buffing gate guards, which is how it happened on live.In fact, on live I was at the west freeport gate killing guards when the message to "log out," was broadcast. Got back in and started to cast on a guard when another druid who was there pointed out the con change.
As for Verant's reasoning, it was was a bunch of crap, in my opinion. I had countless newbies run to me for heal, ds, and buffs when leveling up out in front of Freeport or wherever I happened to be killing guards at the time. I know many others who hunted guards at the time, that did the same. Honestly, I just think they hadn't anticipated guards being such popular sport.

All said and done,this just doesn't really keep with the spirit of progression, unless there is a reason behind this. What does it hurt to change them back til Kunark?
To add , this is just an observation, and my opinion. I appreciate all the hard work the devs do, and applaud their commitment.

doacleric
07-14-2010, 12:59 AM
Guard changes were made because they were highly unbalanced. For a pure risk vs reward standpoint, killing guards offered far less risk compared to a dungeon (sow available, zone lines available, less trains, etc), while offering spawn rates 4x that of a dungeon. In other words, a far easier encounter that potentially offers 4x the experience. It didn't make sense, and thats why it was fixed by Verant back over a decade ago.

Again, we have nothing against players hunting guards. EQ has never placed any restrictions upon what you can and can't kill (like WoW for example). But there has to be a certain amount of balance in the game.

PureLo
07-14-2010, 01:13 AM
still wasn't made until after kunark when there was more content to camp and XP whereas now with population growing it is just a customizable change which shouldn't have been made in my opinion and many others.

Why should certain people get penalized when it is just their last resort of xp or money when everything else seems to be camped? Besides there is balance if one person can do it many can it isn't like it is only for an exclusive club.... plus the fact of xp bonuses in dungeons and groups killing mobs as compared to soloing guards needs to also be factored into the ratio. There are so many variables that could be argued against the change, but the fact remains even Verant didn't make it until POST Kunark.

Plus who knows what all other "customizable" stuff could have been done with something that reads.... (Super Secret Stuff) lol.

Chodan
07-14-2010, 01:48 AM
I've been having this problem in Lower guk all night. The mob is right in front of me and I'm trying to cast but it says "You cannot see your target."

Ok, so I move the mob and now we're in a straight and level hallway and STILL the same problem. So I move myself but it still gives me "You cannot see your target."

Then I ooc it to the zone and apparently others have had the same issue.

I've been doing this all week and only after the patch has this happened to me. Granted, I've seen that message before but it was usually on a hill or the mob was on a chair or something.

Anyone else experiencing this too?

YendorLootmonkey
07-14-2010, 02:29 AM
Guard changes were made because they were highly unbalanced. For a pure risk vs reward standpoint, killing guards offered far less risk compared to a dungeon (sow available, zone lines available, less trains, etc), while offering spawn rates 4x that of a dungeon. In other words, a far easier encounter that potentially offers 4x the experience. It didn't make sense, and thats why it was fixed by Verant back over a decade ago.

Good, so here's a perfect example of a change to something that does not make sense and was fixed by Verant at a certain point much later in the timeline than was done here on this server. A post above showed this change didn't go in until after Kunark was released.

I agree that it doesn't make sense from a risk/reward standpoint, but you can't make that change if you are strictly following the timeline. Otherwise by the same reasoning, I would ask that you remove the class-based XP penalties which also were stated by Verant as not making sense, and change them earlier in the timeline as you have done here with the guard spawn time changes.

Again, tremendous amount of respect for the amount of time you guys put into maintaining this server for us, and I'm not trying to be rude or imply you're accountable to us in any way, but don't you see it's a tad hypocritical to have it both ways? This change kinda shows you're intentionally picking and choosing things to fix ahead of the classic timeline.

Qaedain
07-14-2010, 03:00 AM
Great patch. Thanks, guys. :)

mmiles8
07-14-2010, 03:28 AM
if you are strictly following the timeline

It's not even realistic to expect them to follow the timeline exactly. With their limited time and resources, I laugh inside every time someone expects Kunark to be made x months to the day from the moment the server went live, especially considering this post (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1042). Scroll down to Aeolwind's post. The change was put in to address a risk vs reward imbalance, leaving those in game for too long, especially one that inflates an economy to this extent, is a bad thing for everyone. If everyone and their brother hadn't spent all day, every day, farming the hell out of the easy plat right next to the vendors 24/7, they might coulda let it slide longer. The players vote on where to swing the nerf bat, with their feet.

i would have to say that your proof counteracts the changes of this because as you can read before your bold print toward the end of the first paragraph it clearly states

If you want to argue what they could better spend their time on, consider what they could spend time on if they weren't called to justify every single change to a couple of folks who have contributed zip to the community, made no personal effort to understand what's realistic within the limitations of the project, and want to come in and play dolly dressup lawyer over every damned detail. Let alone be more willing.

Sometimes what's not in your best interest, is in your best interest.

finalgrunt
07-14-2010, 04:06 AM
To the dev team ... be carefull of the side effects when you start "balancing" out stuff in a way that is not classic:

1°) Some people will stop looking for historical data cause "what's the point? The dev team will implement it the way they want anyway".

2°) You will be harassed with balance requests "hey you nerfed this. Why don't you nerf that?"

3°) There will br growing concern from the player base thinking that some arbitrary decisions (because balancing is always subjective) may have been taken by people who have interest in those.

Not a good move. Give a clear explanation each time you do something that wasn't classic, or the side effects I enumerated (and you don't want) will occur

JaVeDK
07-14-2010, 04:26 AM
Good, so here's a perfect example of a change to something that does not make sense and was fixed by Verant at a certain point much later in the timeline than was done here on this server. A post above showed this change didn't go in until after Kunark was released.

I agree that it doesn't make sense from a risk/reward standpoint, but you can't make that change if you are strictly following the timeline. Otherwise by the same reasoning, I would ask that you remove the class-based XP penalties which also were stated by Verant as not making sense, and change them earlier in the timeline as you have done here with the guard spawn time changes.

Again, tremendous amount of respect for the amount of time you guys put into maintaining this server for us, and I'm not trying to be rude or imply you're accountable to us in any way, but don't you see it's a tad hypocritical to have it both ways? This change kinda shows you're intentionally picking and choosing things to fix ahead of the classic timeline.

Well said sir. I am in agreement with the above and the respectful manner in which it was expressed.

dali_lb
07-14-2010, 06:38 AM
Think People just in generally (incl myself) expect the P99 to be an exact copy of the EQ timeline on live, wich when you sit down and reflect on it just isn't fair to expect.

The P99 Team is by far as big as Verant/Sony.

The EQEmu isn't a 100% copy of EQlive. It's propably not more than 80% correct. There is countless things that just can't be made work 100% like EQlive with EQEmu.

And yet we expect things to be 100% correct.

Wether It's correct to make certain patches to stabilize server economy even its not 100% consistent with EQlive timeline ... hard to say

Personly, I think people have considerable more platinum on P99 than they had on live, so Yes, I think its fair to do it. There is too much plat flowing around allready.

But then again. personly I'd also like something added to eg. Lower Guk named camps that would make it very undesirable to try solo camp these spawns, just like city guards.... but again that aint classic, as necroes always used to solo these things to make huge amount of plat on selling fbss, ssoy, smr and 2h mithril.

mmiles8
07-14-2010, 06:47 AM
We're all sick of this classic, not classic, oh it's classic again, tug of war bullshit.

You guys are fucking retarded. Seriously.

Have you considered cancelling your account and demanding a refund?

These guys put forth THEIR OWN TIME to create something. If a handful of you have nothing better to do than come along and contribute jack squat to the project, but expect to tear them down for what they're trying to do, leave.

These people are human. All humans have a burnout meter. I'll be damned if some whiny thumbsucker gets the pleasure of pushing them closer to burnout because his misery needs some company.

utenan
07-14-2010, 07:13 AM
Have you considered cancelling your account and demanding a refund?

These guys put for THEIR OWN TIME to create something. If a handful of you have nothing better to do than come along and contribute jack squat to the project, but expect to tear them down for what they're trying to do, leave.

These people are human. All humans have a burnout meter. I'll be damned if some whiny thumbsucker gets the pleasure of pushing them closer to burnout because his misery needs some company.

^ this
What the fuck is wrong with some of you? (and by some of you, I mean Charms atm)
Seriously, can you not understand that they make some changes outside of the time line to benefit the server? Unless you are just really pissed off that you cant make extreme amounts of plat and exp at the same time anymore, and are just venting, I don't understand.The server will never be 100% classic, that is a fact, but they are trying to recreate it as best they can, like adding in shared exp penalties. But if something is fucking up the server, like a huge inflation of plat, or no one hunting in dungeons, then they are going to fix it, and for good reason too (especially if it was changed in the classic era)

Eyry
07-14-2010, 08:07 AM
Thanks for the Pet fixes Haynar! I can definitely notice a difference for the better.

YendorLootmonkey
07-14-2010, 10:33 AM
^ this
What the fuck is wrong with some of you? (and by some of you, I mean Charms atm)
Seriously, can you not understand that they make some changes outside of the time line to benefit the server? Unless you are just really pissed off that you cant make extreme amounts of plat and exp at the same time anymore, and are just venting, I don't understand.The server will never be 100% classic, that is a fact, but they are trying to recreate it as best they can, like adding in shared exp penalties. But if something is fucking up the server, like a huge inflation of plat, or no one hunting in dungeons, then they are going to fix it, and for good reason too (especially if it was changed in the classic era)

The point is we're asking for consistency in how these changes are made.

They can't say "Well, this was changed after Kunark but we're changing it now because Verant admitted it was a bug at that point and fixed it" regarding the guard spawn times, yet at the same time say "Well, the class-based XP penalties were changed in Velious because Verant admitted it was a bug at that point and fixed it, but.... yeah, we're just gonna leave it in because that's how it *was* back in classic, dudes. You all dealt with it in classic, so that's how it is here."

Yes, I know "yes they can say that, STFU and GTFO if you don't like it", but I guess I'm looking for these changes to be made consistently, reasonably, and rationally. Instead of just "Hmmm that makes the game harder for the player and existed at some point in the Classic/Kunark/Velious era... ADD IT NOW!@# Hmmm that makes the game easier for the player... hold off on that one until it actually happens in the original timeline."

guineapig
07-14-2010, 10:44 AM
Guard changes were made because they were highly unbalanced. For a pure risk vs reward standpoint, killing guards offered far less risk compared to a dungeon (sow available, zone lines available, less trains, etc), while offering spawn rates 4x that of a dungeon. In other words, a far easier encounter that potentially offers 4x the experience. It didn't make sense, and thats why it was fixed by Verant back over a decade ago.

Again, we have nothing against players hunting guards. EQ has never placed any restrictions upon what you can and can't kill (like WoW for example). But there has to be a certain amount of balance in the game.

I totally agree with the reasons for doing this both by the P99 staff as well as Verant back in the day.

However, even I'm a little surprised that this was changed pre-Kunark.
May of 2000 should be after Kunark is released, after The Hole and a few months before epic quests go live. Besides following progression, it also makes sense since there is so much more content available for the population.

What could be changed now is the guard stats. That would roughly fall in line with classic progression.

(I have never killed a single guard yet on P99 myself so this doesn't effect me at all, unless you consider how many more people will be LFG in dungeons now).

---------------------------------------------

On a side note, I'm also excited to hear about the pet fixes!

Aposi
07-14-2010, 10:46 AM
I'm Sorry, but mmiles8 and Utenan, there is no reason for you to get defensive because every single person that is mad all have valid points.

And plus, if the change was because guards yielded too much xp, hell, leave the guards there and dock off the % attainable from guards. and if it is indeed money (which they did not post) the server will still be inflamed with platinum, so if doing something like increasing the spawn time of guards, what about all the other plat going around, it's still going to be inflamed, guards or not.

The changes need to be made right, I am not saying that these changes is wrong in anyway. otherwise a lot of people will get pissed and P1999 could potentially lose a good portion of players.

nilbog
07-14-2010, 11:10 AM
Well, today I woke up, read this same bunch of whining bullshit, and decided I don't want to help a single fucking one of you.

Instead of asking, or bug reporting why something isn't right, its the same entitled bitching about how and what you think we should do.

Errors? ---> Bugs forum
Bitching? ----> Rants and Flames

NOW do you see the difference in not getting paid? I really... don't have to listen to it. I can just leave, and you can cry in the dark.

Best of luck getting anything resolved today without me.

mmiles8
07-14-2010, 11:10 AM
^ You reap what you sow, because you couldn't act like normal human beings or voice opinions in a productive manner.

every single person that is mad all have valid points.

You can have a valid point without calling the devs fucking retarded.

otherwise a lot of people will get pissed and P1999 could potentially lose a good portion of players.

The server will continue on without the habitual forum whiners. What it won't continue on without, are devs.

Like I told you before this happened:
These people are human. All humans have a burnout meter.
Every action has a consequence, now you're living with the consequences. Learn to see past your own noses.

Oogmog
07-14-2010, 11:26 AM
I'm torn.. in one hand we have the most miserable xp spot to ever exist being Oggok, and I'm almost glad that nobody else would have to suffer through that horrible experience.
On the other, dungeons are filling up to max capacity and even past their limits here lately. The removal of suitable spots may further hinder the limited xp spots 35+.

But to Charms, flaming them for removal of shared hell level experience .. that was how it was classic, it took me and a few others a couple weeks of posting to convince the devs.

Itchybottom
07-14-2010, 11:27 AM
Well, today I woke up, read this same bunch of whining bullshit, and decided I don't want to help a single fucking one of you.

Instead of asking, or bug reporting why something isn't right, its the same entitled bitching about how and what you think we should do.

Errors? ---> Bugs forum
Bitching? ----> Rants and Flames

NOW do you see the difference in not getting paid? I really... don't have to listen to it. I can just leave, and you can cry in the dark.

Best of luck getting anything resolved today without me.

I've learned over the years to just deal with the database and the server, and try not to get involved in the player base. It just kills your motivation. That's why you have GMs on the server, to proxy important issues to the top.

Autotune
07-14-2010, 11:34 AM
lol, I can see both sides and I see positives from both sides and the negatives. However, I don't see it being the end of the world like some of you do. Seriously you guys bitch and complain about everything.

Shared xp penalties isn't fair.... so get the fuck over it.
Guards don't spawn as fast anymore.... so get the fuck over it.
My necro pet sucks compared to 3 weeks ago... I got the fuck over it.

do any of you actually live in the real world? Or I guess you bitch and complain to your boss everyday about how unfair it is that the guy next to you makes .30$ more an hour than you, even though YOU think you are better than him.

I have some advice for any of you with your panties stuffed to far up your ass.

Go outside and breath for an hour.

Aposi
07-14-2010, 11:38 AM
Autotune, Just because someone has their opinion about something that was changed, does not mean they have no life. Yes, could have changed to Rant and Flames, Still would have had the same outcome. Maybe you should think a bit before you speak like that. I have come to the conclusion that it is only kids that make that excuse that they themselves have no life or job.

Autotune
07-14-2010, 11:45 AM
Autotune, Just because someone has their opinion about something that was changed, does not mean they have no life. Yes, could have changed to Rant and Flames, Still would have had the same outcome. Maybe you should think a bit before you speak like that. I have come to the conclusion that it is only kids that make that excuse that they themselves have no life or job.

I don't remember saying anything about anyone not having a life. Maybe you should read more before typing.

Aposi
07-14-2010, 11:51 AM
it's essentially what you were saying, it didn't have to be said. now drop it. not the thread for your insults.

Malrubius
07-14-2010, 11:57 AM
Great patch - thanks again guys - I haven't had this much fun in a game since 2001.

Autotune
07-14-2010, 12:00 PM
I feel I should help you understand more. I will take it that this is the line you are misunderstanding.

"do any of you actually live in the real world?"

The first line is indicating that they are delusional, as in they refuse to believe that the world is anything but fair.

now to this line.

"Or I guess you bitch and complain to your boss everyday about how unfair it is that the guy next to you makes .30$ more an hour than you, even though YOU think you are better than him."

Now this one actually implies that they have a JOB aka a LIFE. So I fail to understand where you get the idea that I imply that someone doesn't have a LIFE or JOB.

Again. Read. Comprehend. Type. Also do not say you know what I am implying when you obviously have no clue.

olderj
07-14-2010, 12:50 PM
Hey developers. Thank you. I'm having a fantastic time playing the game in which you so generously devoted your time and money. My brother and I are re-living Norath in a way we never thought would ever be possible.

Please don't let all of the negativity from a few of the players curb your outstanding efforts. It's your server. I'm just along for the ride... and having a fantastic time.

We totally appreciate what you do.

~Huffle

Swishahouse
07-14-2010, 01:08 PM
I wasnt too happy with a lot of the changes recently, to be sure. But to fucking bash on these dudes who legitimately attempt to provide something rad for us to fucking waste our idle time on is bullshit. I don't know how many times these devs have gone out of the way for people to help out and always do their best to explain why things were in their "Vision". Some shit is being done out of order because development priorities are going to gravitate towards the biggest fixes with the quickest implementation. But to seriously bash people to the level of fucking calling them retarded over this sort of bullshit is balls. Act like fucking human beings for fuck sake.

lechrac1
07-14-2010, 01:11 PM
Reading the flames in this post saddens me. People need to understand that the devs are creating content as best as they can FOR US and FOR FREE. They do things the way they do because they feel its the best way to make the game that THEY want to create; if you dont like that, the door is open for you to take a hike.

This will never be 100% classic and its silly to assume that things will be done exactly the same way. If you have suggestions, post them in the correct manner and dont spam the forums with flames; its going to just piss the people who are donating time to us and make them shut the server down. If you're some kind of vindictive asshat that enjoys ruining things for others, get medicated or smoke some pot or /wrists cause we dont want you here if you are gonna be a jerk.

Great job so far Devs. I really enjoy the fact that this isnt some carebear, cookie cutter wow cloned game and that its a challenge. Dont ever cave into the forum trolls please!

rioisk
07-14-2010, 01:15 PM
What I notice from recent changes:

-Lower peak population
-Significantly less lower level hybrids
-Less lower level groups
-More soloing
-Angry people

I'm not complaining but I will say that this project name should be changed from P1999 to P1999 custom-legit.

girth
07-14-2010, 01:23 PM
This thread is just a bunch of me's, my's, mine's, and I want's.

[scrolls to top of thread to check if this is R&F]

/sigh I'll refrain.

Nilbog - I still remember beta, we didn't need 500+ to have fun on the server. Don't let these asshats get to you. Can always just ban them too. =)

Aposi
07-14-2010, 01:26 PM
An amount of us are not bashing devs, well at least i am not. I just find the changes to guards wrong at this point in time with such little content in the game atm.

I am not saying keep guards with OP xp compared to other dungeons. but isn't there a way to lower the experience gain on said monsters?

girth
07-14-2010, 01:27 PM
What I notice from recent changes:

-Lower peak population
-Significantly less lower level hybrids
-Less lower level groups
-More soloing
-Angry people

I'm not complaining but I will say that this project name should be changed from P1999 to P1999 custom-legit.

It is summer time, when many games take hits in their normal population. Not saying it cannot be because of the recent changes, just saying. I've been a raiding officer in an MMO and I can tell you we always had attendance issues during the summers.

Uberom
07-14-2010, 01:34 PM
CODE

DOACleric: Guard spawn times normalized to their dungeon npc equivalents


"Normalized" is an improperly used verb here.
–verb
def: resume a normal state

By altering the gaurds spawn timer to those of "dungeon equivalents", you have not "normalized them". Instead, you have changed them.
–verb
to make the form, nature, content, future course etc., of (something) different from what it is or from what it would be if left alone

Now that we have established that the guard spawn timers were NOT 'normalized', but rather 'changed', we must call into question the integrity of this change.

If the idea is to keep the programming standards to that of classic Everquest, as Project 1999 claims, then the changes made are invalid. Spawn timers between guards and 'their dungeon equivalents' (whatever that means) were never related in classic Everquest. If there did exist any similarity between the two, it was purely unintentional.

That being said, since the changes made are invalid and not within standards of the classic programming, we must now conclude that P1999's claims about preserving the integrity of the classic experience are uncogent.

Granted, there are issues with guards. The spawn timers are too short, but dungeon timers are not the proper timing either. The factions are messed up in some areas. Aggro and socializing don't work in places where 'normally' it is supposed to.

These are all valid issues that should, in keeping with the standards of classic EQ, be fixed. However, this is the mentality that I see coming from the devs.
"Guards are messed up and are being exploited. We don't know how to fix these issues. Therefore, we must decrease the overall existence of guards as a deterrent to those who take advantage of their juicy loot."

If we are to keep this way of thinking, we may one day see patch notes that say the following.

DAOCleric: All warriors have been normalized to contain the same hit points as their dungeon equivalents.
DAOCleric: All mobs in zones that contain dungeons, are now the same difficulty as their dungeon equivalents. They also give the same loot and experience.
DAOCleric: Nagafen's spawn timer has been normalized to that of his dungeon equivalents. (Although Nagafen doesn't have any normal, NPC dungeon equivalents now, in Kunark he will :) and those are rather short)

I like how another user put it in his thread. Maybe the server name should be changed from Classic to custom.

Dantes
07-14-2010, 01:36 PM
Whatever you guys decide is cool with me. You've created a really awesome server and I'm enjoying a chance to play the game again how I remember it. If you made a change for balance, it was probably for a good reason. You're dealing with an audience who already knows all of the exploits and cheap tricks, so anything that was even slightly unbalanced during classic could be 10 times worse here on P99.

To the folks saying "ZOMG the server is failing, people are leaving." I don't buy it.

YendorLootmonkey
07-14-2010, 01:38 PM
Instead of asking, or bug reporting why something isn't right, its the same entitled bitching about how and what you think we should do.

I tried to phrase my question in the most non-accusatory and respectful manner possible. I am sincerely asking why this is:

I am respectfully wondering why a change (guard respawn rate) has been made with verifiable data that this was an acknowledged "bug" by Verant that they did not rectify until Kunark, whereas we have another "bug" acknowledged by Verant (class-based XP penalties) that they did not rectify until Velious that is even more game-changing and being left in?

Because the answer can't be "well that's how it was in classic" for both things, so I am respectfully requesting the reasoning behind it. If it's "because we don't want it to be too easy for the players like the other emu servers" or something like that, then fine... I can accept that and it would at least be consistent.

That's all I'm asking. I know you don't owe me an answer, and I really don't expect one I guess.

We both need each other... we need you to keep the project going, and you need us to populate it and make all the time you invested in it worthwhile. We're gonna do things that irritate the devs, and the devs are going to do things that irritate us. It's unavoidable. We all respect the time and effort the devs put into maintaining the server for us, even if it doesn't sound like it here sometimes. You have to understand that we, as players, have a lot of our free time invested in our characters (just as you have your free time invested in running the server) and when you make changes like these (or choose not to make changes despite Verant saying certain things never should have been a certain way), they tend to provoke emotional responses. We are, after all, human beings.

I apologize in advance if anything I typed here offended anyone. Except asslings... they can suck it.

kalewin
07-14-2010, 02:12 PM
I think this is going to be my first post on here.

All the people bitching, you are all self-centered selfish pieces of shit. Why? Let me explain.

First, to expect every goddamn implementation to exactly follow the timeline of the "real" EverQuest Live server is completely fucking bazaar. These people working on this project are doing it for FREE, READ AGAIN, FREE. To make an exact replica of how everquest evolved would take a shitload of time and effort. Can you for once stop thinking about yourself, and realize all the time and effort the devs have been putting in already.

Second, they are obviously trying to make the server as fair as possible. Any change they make, they backup with valid reasoning, and it's ALWAYS within the classic period. "oh but it doesn't effect me positively, what will I do?!" FUCKING DEAL WITH IT and adapt just as you would if Verant made the change. Bitch bitch bitch never creates a solution nor do the people that have authority want to listen to it (example: Nilbog).

It's like the majority of you are social retards. Address your OPINIONS in a mature manner (opposite of what I am doing right now :P )and I'm sure people will listen to your disagreement on why things shouldn't be the way they are. If you can't deal with the server evolving into whatever it's becoming (to me each patch makes it better) then leave.

God, I bet all you little fucks that are bitching were just spoiled little shits that had everything handed to them. Appreciate what you have, because if it wasn't for the dev team you'd all be watching youtube videos still or following the eqclassic.org forums wishing you had classic EQ to play.

/nerdrant over.

Oh and PureLO, if you want to keep throwing out the word *customization*, back up the vomit that you're spewing. They asked for ONE example of what you are talking about and you failed to come up with just ONE change that would be considered *customization*. Quit shitting out opinions as if they were facts unless you can prove your point with a FACT.

nilbog
07-14-2010, 02:17 PM
Why is it assumed every change is made at the behest of the entire development team? This isn't your first set of patch notes. Have you noticed changes being made, then reverted? We do not work in a single room, and the development work submitted is volunteered.

Instead of asking if this was intentional, some of you went fucking crazy questioning our integrity, the vision of classic, etc etc. Ridiculous. You can say its your right as players, but in the end, you're just pissing us off by not giving the benefit of the doubt or presenting mature complaints.

I was interested in having these changes reverted.. and possibly doing it myself. Not now. I'll let DOACleric handle the guard situation *and* respond to you.

Over the past week or so, the bitching has gotten out of control all over the forums, and what you're going to get from it is forum moderators, and lost privileges of speaking directly with developers. I won't miss speaking to some of you. I'm gonna go develop Kunark, which is what I do the majority of each day, and you can enjoy automated responses.

We both need each other... we need you to keep the project going, and you need us to populate it and make all the time you invested in it worthwhile.

This is where you're wrong. We don't need you; you need us. We could shut the server down, and develop it in private at no cost. I did that for a year and a half before any of you dissidents disgraced my lands. You realize that we get the same rewards of developing this without being criticized. We could finish it up, and open it when Velious is complete.

You're ruining your own lands.

tj218
07-14-2010, 02:18 PM
As great as P99 is, a lot of people (flamers and haters) on the threads need to chill out and go do something in the real world.

/flame on

Who the @%%! cares if a guard spawns take longer? This game isn't about a race to the highest level with the best kewl lootz. Those that are bitching seem to feel that it is. Well create your own god-damned server and run it the way you want, hell just give yourself all the kewl lootz right away and call it a day, you are not forced to play here! The solution is that damn easy.

Oh wait, but this isn't about that, this about you lacking anything of value in your life and needing something (oooo a Rubcite BP, w/ FBSS) to build your self-esteem. You must have an audience to boast about how you are level 90 with 1,000,000,000 platinum with 9 uber-equipped twinks.

Good god if this is how it's going to be I hope the developers never release Kunark so these losers get the hell out and let the VAST VAST majority of P99 players enjoy the game and allow the devs to enjoy what they do.

/flame off

I still appreciate all the work the devs have done and continue to do despite all the losers (described above) griefing. Everyone I have grouped with seems to express similar thoughts, and I have not yet one encountered someone in a group or through interactions that gives a crap about these changes.

kalewin
07-14-2010, 02:24 PM
I tried to phrase my question in the most non-accusatory and respectful manner possible. I am sincerely asking why this is:

I am respectfully wondering why a change (guard respawn rate) has been made with verifiable data that this was an acknowledged "bug" by Verant that they did not rectify until Kunark, whereas we have another "bug" acknowledged by Verant (class-based XP penalties) that they did not rectify until Velious that is even more game-changing and being left in?

Because the answer can't be "well that's how it was in classic" for both things, so I am respectfully requesting the reasoning behind it. If it's "because we don't want it to be too easy for the players like the other emu servers" or something like that, then fine... I can accept that and it would at least be consistent.

That's all I'm asking. I know you don't owe me an answer, and I really don't expect one I guess.

We both need each other... we need you to keep the project going, and you need us to populate it and make all the time you invested in it worthwhile. We're gonna do things that irritate the devs, and the devs are going to do things that irritate us. It's unavoidable. We all respect the time and effort the devs put into maintaining the server for us, even if it doesn't sound like it here sometimes. You have to understand that we, as players, have a lot of our free time invested in our characters (just as you have your free time invested in running the server) and when you make changes like these (or choose not to make changes despite Verant saying certain things never should have been a certain way), they tend to provoke emotional responses. We are, after all, human beings.

I apologize in advance if anything I typed here offended anyone. Except asslings... they can suck it.

All I got from this is "Let me justify our bitching since we are humans with emotions".

And your question was already answered if you set aside your *emotions* and listened.

DOACLERIC:

Guard changes were made because they were highly unbalanced. For a pure risk vs reward standpoint, killing guards offered far less risk compared to a dungeon (sow available, zone lines available, less trains, etc), while offering spawn rates 4x that of a dungeon. In other words, a far easier encounter that potentially offers 4x the experience. It didn't make sense, and thats why it was fixed by Verant back over a decade ago.

Again, we have nothing against players hunting guards. EQ has never placed any restrictions upon what you can and can't kill (like WoW for example). But there has to be a certain amount of balance in the game.

-That is all you needed, was an answer? well there it is, now deal.

Aposi
07-14-2010, 02:28 PM
I am just gonna continue to refresh this because this argument will go on all day, people making valid points, then people insulting others, It's just interesting because there will be no end to this until the thread is locked and continues on rants and flames.

mmiles8
07-14-2010, 02:40 PM
Some folks could benefit from this:http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11956

YendorLootmonkey
07-14-2010, 03:28 PM
All I got from this is "Let me justify our bitching since we are humans with emotions".

And your question was already answered if you set aside your *emotions* and listened.

DOACLERIC:

Guard changes were made because they were highly unbalanced. For a pure risk vs reward standpoint, killing guards offered far less risk compared to a dungeon (sow available, zone lines available, less trains, etc), while offering spawn rates 4x that of a dungeon. In other words, a far easier encounter that potentially offers 4x the experience. It didn't make sense, and thats why it was fixed by Verant back over a decade ago.

Again, we have nothing against players hunting guards. EQ has never placed any restrictions upon what you can and can't kill (like WoW for example). But there has to be a certain amount of balance in the game.

-That is all you needed, was an answer? well there it is, now deal.

I never said I didn't understand that.

If you read my post, which Nilbog *still* glossed over in his response to me, and you didn't answer either... it's not that I care that guards were changed ahead of schedule because they were "broken".

I care that this was changed ahead of schedule because it was "broken" as admitted by Verant, yet class-based XP penalties are left in even though they were "broken" as admitted by Verant, and I'm wondering why this is so.

I'm not bitching, complaining, or anything. I am simply seeking understanding in the most respectful way I can, and I'm STILL drawing shit for it somehow. If devs say "Yeah, uh, we don't have an answer for that." or "Yep, we're only picking the stuff that is detrimental to XP gain to change." then that's fine. I am just wondering.

utenan
07-14-2010, 03:39 PM
It seems like it was changed because of how drastic the effect is on the server. With the exp penalty, you have to kill 120 mobs instead of 100 ( random made up numbers ). But look at the guards, your getting exp 4x faster than normal, and effecting the economy of the server. Makes logical sense as to why it was changed ahead of time, but of course I am assuming. One has a drastic effect on the game, the other, not so much.

But yeah, Yendor, i see nothing wrong with your posts, you asked in a respectful manner, I dont know why your are getting shit for anything. Reading through this thread, only 4 people were really ranting / bitching / flaming imo, everyone else was asking, talking about it, sticking up for devs, etc. etc. (emotions seemed hieghtened in patch notes threads : ) A lot of people are assuming things (annoying at worst)(see my previous paragraph), but they seem genuinely concerned

YendorLootmonkey
07-14-2010, 03:48 PM
Eh, I guess in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't really matter. Like people say, it's free to play and I'm having fun... that's what's most important. :)

Hasbinbad
07-14-2010, 04:03 PM
Yendor, you're a sick bitch. Can't you see that you and others like you are in the wrong place to try and fix shit? If you have a specific issues, post it in bugs. If you are still mad, gtfo. Nobody gives a shit what you think or why. You're upsetting the people who are the only reason we can all play EQ, and that upsets me, and SHOULD be upsetting the rest of this fucking community. Just shut the fuck up dude. Go whine to your mommy. Nobody here cares. Nobody is even listening to you at all, except the people you are bitching at, who do this shit out of a labor of love that literally has brought them out of fucking pocket in time and cash for the last ~2? years. Nilbog is the only guy who gives a flying fuck WHAT you have to say, and now even he is pissed off to the point of removing access to himself from the rest of us because you and fucking dipshits like you can't shut the fuck up.

Shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck up.

Aposi
07-14-2010, 04:12 PM
Uhm, are you serious, Hasbin? that was completely uncalled for.

PureLo
07-14-2010, 04:14 PM
I think it is funny for people who have low post counts who don't really use forums, but just enjoy the game get bashed for coming in and raising the attention of something in a formal manner. I know some people are getting out of hand, but generalizing everyone voicing changes as "B-wording" and the like is complete garbage. If you don't want people playing your game close it... you aren't the only one doing EQ classic related content.

I just think it is funny that people make changes or comment on other people saying they aren't "contributing" when in fact the only way we can contribute is posting on the forums. Give us all dev status so we can contribute and this is all solved? I don't think so, people have to communicate since they themselves can't program or monitor changes. So i don't know why everyone is getting upset on either side.

The dev's should realize whatever they do may be up for criticism it is just the way the world is... while the population needs to know that the devs are doing what they seem is feasible for the server to grow and maintain smooth gameplay.

Like i said previously i just wish it would be how it has been mentioned... strictly focused on classic timeline or customized timeline because it does open the window for a lot more scrutiny that is not needed providing such arguments and complaints that are getting Nilbog and others angered. Just the reality is instead of taking the responsibility they are blaming the people pointing out flaws... my suggestion would be to monitor the release of changes better before releasing such content that could cause such hurricanes if indeed the communication isn't fully there before they are released.

That way you don't have to listen/read what makes you upset or waste time on reverting things.

Hasbinbad
07-14-2010, 04:17 PM
Uhm, are you serious, Hasbin? that was completely uncalled for.

Fuck you too. ..and anyone who thinks I'm uncalled for.

You bitches think you're in a resturaunt, where shit is made to order for you, and you get to choose how your fucking sandwich is made.. ..but you're not. You're in Nilbog's fucking house. You're not even his friend, and he is making you a sandwich. You're a fucking homeless lout, and he is feeding you IN HIS FUCKING HOUSE. Not only is he feeding you, but he is letting you take a shower and giving you some fresh clothes. He doesn't even fucking know you. He does everything for you people, damn near lets you fuck his wife. ..and all you fucktards do is bitch. If it was me, I would just shoot you and call the cops and tell them you were a robber, if you came into MY house like that.. ..but he is such a great guy, he actually says "hey guys, i know yer homeless and everything, but if you keep bitching about the sandwiches, i'm not going to be able to continue giving you sandwiches..

AND YOU STILL BITCH ABOUT THE FUCKING SANDWICHES.

Shut ... the ... fuck ... up.

Nocte
07-14-2010, 04:24 PM
Fuck you too. ..and anyone who thinks I'm uncalled for.

You bitches think you're in a resturaunt, where shit is made to order for you, and you get to choose how your fucking sandwich is made.. ..but you're not. You're in Nilbog's fucking house. You're not even his friend, and he is making you a sandwich. You're a fucking homeless lout, and he is feeding you IN HIS FUCKING HOUSE. Not only is he feeding you, but he is letting you take a shower and giving you some fresh clothes. He doesn't even fucking know you. He does everything for you people, damn near lets you fuck his wife. ..and all you fucktards do is bitch. If it was me, I would just shoot you and call the cops and tell them you were a robber, if you came into MY house like that.. ..but he is such a great guy, he actually says "hey guys, i know yer homeless and everything, but if you keep bitching about the sandwiches, i'm not going to be able to continue giving you sandwiches..

AND YOU STILL BITCH ABOUT THE FUCKING SANDWICHES.

Shut ... the ... fuck ... up.

That's a fantastic analogy.

mmiles8
07-14-2010, 04:25 PM
Shut ... the ... fuck ... up.

This, stop trying to get the last word, no one cares what you're whining about. Just do like the man says!! Please :)

utenan
07-14-2010, 04:31 PM
That's a fantastic analogy.

It is, but that's not really whats happening. I have yet to hear anything about guards or this patch in game. The only place ive read anything about it is in this thread. And of the people in this thread, very few are actually bitching and complaining about something. The other hundreds, and hundreds, of people playing the server are not, and you can even read through this one thread and see people thanking the devs. I don't see why anyone is really that upset about anything.

maya
07-14-2010, 04:33 PM
i'm excited. nilbog's workin on kunark.

Eyry
07-14-2010, 04:40 PM
Holy cow, Hasbinbad has some pent up nerd rage that's for sure.

Hasbinbad
07-14-2010, 04:40 PM
It is, but that's not really whats happening. I have yet to hear anything about guards or this patch in game. The only place ive read anything about it is in this thread. And of the people in this thread, very few are actually bitching and complaining about something. The other hundreds, and hundreds, of people playing the server are not, and you can even read through this one thread and see people thanking the devs. I don't see why anyone is really that upset about anything.
post it on bug forum or shut the fuck up or go the fuck away

Malrubius
07-14-2010, 04:43 PM
That's a fantastic analogy.

Agreed. It pisses me off to see people whining about this beautiful gift that nilbog, rogean, and co. have given us. Just leave already if you can't s.t.f.u.

maya
07-14-2010, 04:45 PM
clearly i'm in the minority here, but text on an internet forum doesn't upset me.

Autotune
07-14-2010, 04:53 PM
Fuck you too. ..and anyone who thinks I'm uncalled for.

You bitches think you're in a resturaunt, where shit is made to order for you, and you get to choose how your fucking sandwich is made.. ..but you're not. You're in Nilbog's fucking house. You're not even his friend, and he is making you a sandwich. You're a fucking homeless lout, and he is feeding you IN HIS FUCKING HOUSE. Not only is he feeding you, but he is letting you take a shower and giving you some fresh clothes. He doesn't even fucking know you. He does everything for you people, damn near lets you fuck his wife. ..and all you fucktards do is bitch. If it was me, I would just shoot you and call the cops and tell them you were a robber, if you came into MY house like that.. ..but he is such a great guy, he actually says "hey guys, i know yer homeless and everything, but if you keep bitching about the sandwiches, i'm not going to be able to continue giving you sandwiches..

AND YOU STILL BITCH ABOUT THE FUCKING SANDWICHES.

Shut ... the ... fuck ... up.

is this too long to be sig'd lol? B/C I love it lol. Hasbin is my new beff-fran

Falisaty
07-14-2010, 04:53 PM
why exactly were the guard times changed?

Hasbinbad
07-14-2010, 04:54 PM
clearly i'm in the minority here, but text on an internet forum doesn't upset me.
Their text doesn't upset me either.. That's not the point at all.

The thing that upsets me is the fact that nilbog is demonstrably upset (did you read his last post, or are you a dipshit troll who speaks before thinking?). Nilbog is upset (for those of you with zero empathy) because he actually reads what you people say and actually gives a shit, because this project is his baby, and when he reads these assholes disrespecting him and his team over and over when he/they are pouring blood, sweat, and tears.. I think that's fucking understandable. If you don't understand that, then go fuck yourself.

Falisaty
07-14-2010, 04:56 PM
DOACleric: Guards (basically) removed from the game

Sad panda, but I figure you did it cause of all the exploiting going on in some places. Still, you owe me 20p for my port out of Tox =p

how is killing guards an exploit... that's like saying killing the Ferrott specters is an exploit or killing hill giants in Rath mountains is an exploit.... can someone please rationalize this for me?

Hasbinbad
07-14-2010, 04:57 PM
how is killing guards an exploit... that's like saying killing the Ferrott specters is an exploit or killing hill giants in Rath mountains is an exploit.... can someone please rationalize this for me?
No, shut the fuck up.

If you feel like it's wrong, post it in the bug section. Or just shut the fuck up.

Aposi
07-14-2010, 05:00 PM
hasbin is going to be like that kid that shoots himself with a shotgun in his own apartment because of a raid gone bad like years ago on 60 minutes.

maya
07-14-2010, 05:04 PM
why exactly were the guard times changed?

one of the developers thought that it's unbalanced as mentioned earlier in thread. this isn't in line with classic nerf timeline which some people have a problem with. and some people complain that recent changes lack the consistency of a classic server.

Aposi
07-14-2010, 05:06 PM
one of the developers thought that it's unbalanced as mentioned earlier in thread. this isn't in line with classic nerf timeline which some people have a problem with. and some people complain that recent changes lack the consistency of a classic server.

Thank goodness, someone that can actually give a nice reply compared to some people.

Hasbinbad
07-14-2010, 05:13 PM
some people
Fuck you.

mmiles8
07-14-2010, 05:18 PM
At this point the thread is becoming embarassing to read, and folks can't even find information about the patch, or the dispute that spawned this garbage that this has devolved into. It's time to switch to PMs, the thread isn't all about which of the two of you will get the last word.

If you can't behave, this thread is going to wind up locked, and quite likely every patch note thread in the future.

YendorLootmonkey
07-14-2010, 05:43 PM
Yendor, you're a sick bitch. Can't you see that you and others like you are in the wrong place to try and fix shit? If you have a specific issues, post it in bugs. If you are still mad, gtfo. Nobody gives a shit what you think or why. You're upsetting the people who are the only reason we can all play EQ, and that upsets me, and SHOULD be upsetting the rest of this fucking community. Just shut the fuck up dude. Go whine to your mommy. Nobody here cares. Nobody is even listening to you at all, except the people you are bitching at, who do this shit out of a labor of love that literally has brought them out of fucking pocket in time and cash for the last ~2? years. Nilbog is the only guy who gives a flying fuck WHAT you have to say, and now even he is pissed off to the point of removing access to himself from the rest of us because you and fucking dipshits like you can't shut the fuck up.

Shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck up.

I'm sorry... was this the Rants & Flames forum? I don't think I said anywhere in this thread that I am mad or whining (I'm sure you'll be the first to prove me wrong if I did, however.) I believe I respectfully asked a question to the devs about a consistency issue. The only time I think I may have slightly crossed the line is when I gave the opinion that it was a bit hypocritical. If that's what set you off... I apologize.

Hasbinbad
07-14-2010, 07:37 PM
I'm sorry... was this the Rants & Flames forum? I don't think I said anywhere in this thread that I am mad or whining (I'm sure you'll be the first to prove me wrong if I did, however.) I believe I respectfully asked a question to the devs about a consistency issue. The only time I think I may have slightly crossed the line is when I gave the opinion that it was a bit hypocritical. If that's what set you off... I apologize.
I was very clear about what set me off. Shut up.

doacleric
07-14-2010, 08:11 PM
Well, this thread certainly got out of hand quickly.

As i've stated before, this change was made because it did not make sense from a risk vs reward based standpoint. I never said killing guards was an exploit. Nothing is stopping you from killing guards right now. The only difference is that you will level at the same speed as you would in a comparable level 30+ dungeon. Killing guards has downsides - losing valuable faction, no possibility of common/rare drops, etc. However, it also has its upsides - generally easier to kill because they are outdoors. This makes sense. Having guards spawn 4x faster did not make sense, and I believe everyone here can agree to that.

Verant made these changes back in 2000 when guard killing not only became widespread, but started to become the de-facto method of leveling up for everyone. As this was not Verant's original intention for guards, it was changed. Had guard killing became rampant in 2002 instead of 2000, Verant would have caught on then, and changed it. Same as if guard killing would have caught on in 1999, Verant would have fixed it then. I'm certain that guard killing DID occur back in 1999, but more than likely flew under the radar enough for Verant to not notice.

Bottom line is, Verant NEVER intended to guards to be hunted at 4x the speed of a dungeon. When they noticed that this was happening, it was changed. Realistically, guards should never have been spawning 4x faster on P1999, as it was imbalancing from a leveling viewpoint, and also to the in-game economy. Thats why it was changed now, even though we were a little late to catch on. There is no strange "we are going out of order to the timeline!!!!!!!!!" conspiracy going on.

One thing you guys need to realize is that we all have lives - families, jobs, school, etc. We work on this server in our free time. And because we spend our free time working on this server, it leaves us with little to no time to actually PLAY on this server. Believe it or not, most of us devs do not have the time to actually sit back and enjoy P1999. So take a deep breath, relax, and enjoy P1999 if you like. We certainly aren't forcing your hand to play.

Falisaty
07-14-2010, 08:14 PM
well im just trying to figure out why the times were changed.... the reason that was given is very vague in the least and to say it was unbalanced is not an answer its like answering why did u kill a man and saying because...doesn't work. im not mad im just surprised it was changed and would like a better explanation than they were unbalanced. Someone states that we who were killing said guards were exploiting still does not make since because if that's the case then anyone who is killing any mob in the game is exploiting.

Now to u has been bad seriously take a chill pill and get over yourself if u take everything so seriously on this forum you are going to end up having a stroke and dieing. Chill out its only words, and try to be nicer on your responses. IMHO u are part of the problem and def need to be muted.

Lazortag
07-14-2010, 08:18 PM
well im just trying to figure out why the times were changed.... the reason that was given is very vague in the least and to say it was unbalanced is not an answer its like answering why did u kill a man and saying because...doesn't work. im not mad im just surprised it was changed and would like a better explanation than they were unbalanced. Someone states that we who were killing said guards were exploiting still does not make since because if that's the case then anyone who is killing any mob in the game is exploiting.

Now to u has been bad seriously take a chill pill and get over yourself if u take everything so seriously on this forum you are going to end up having a stroke and dieing. Chill out its only words, and try to be nicer on your responses. IMHO u are part of the problem and def need to be muted.

Learn to write in english and to use good analogies/arguments etc.

doacleric, I agree guard spawn timers should be made fairer, but what evidence was provided that they were on a 22-28 minute timer? That seems a bit excessive from my experiences with live.

rioisk
07-14-2010, 08:22 PM
They can change whatever they want so long as i get my pet sword of rune procs on all mobs...oh wait

mmiles8
07-14-2010, 08:32 PM
what evidence was provided that they were on a 22-28 minute timer?

If there weren't 13 pages of a small number of immature souls whose self-esteem hinges on getting the last word, endlessly retorting "shut up", "no u", you'd be able to find this quoted in the thread.

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20000512.html

Lazortag
07-14-2010, 08:50 PM
If there weren't 13 pages of a small number of immature souls whose self-esteem hinges on getting the last word, endlessly retorting "shut up", "no u", you'd be able to find this quoted in the thread.

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20000512.html

I'm aware of that quote - it still doesn't answer my question. Are dungeon NPC's, on average, on a 22-28 minute timer? I'm sure this is true in some dungeons (like Unrest for example), but this is definitely not true for every dungeon.

Falisaty
07-14-2010, 08:56 PM
well in any case ill give a little heads up Ferrott Specters are lvl 36 and are on a 6 min timer... still are on live. guess u gana nurf thoes down also just because they are unbalanced and you can go from 34 to 50 in like a week?? i know i did soloing them. kill em while you can boys.

YendorLootmonkey
07-14-2010, 09:06 PM
Bottom line is, Verant NEVER intended to guards to be hunted at 4x the speed of a dungeon. When they noticed that this was happening, it was changed.

The same could be said for the hybrid XP penalties... when they noticed the issues being caused, they were changed. Any chance we can do the same here then? If not... why one and not the other? It's all I'm sincerely wondering. No accusations being made or any attempt to offend anyone here, as much as Hasinbad would like you to believe.

Noleafclover
07-14-2010, 09:19 PM
how is killing guards an exploit... that's like saying killing the Ferrott specters is an exploit or killing hill giants in Rath mountains is an exploit.... can someone please rationalize this for me?

From what I read on other threads, pathing was being exploited in HK and Oggok and elsewhere. So that's why I thought they changed it - this was before Devs posted their reasoning that it's too much money/exp and the mobs were never meant to be killed. This makes sense to me as well, since I was making 1.1-1.2k an hour as a monk (and monks are famous for being poor), and 1.5yellow an hour and 100p an hour as a 38 cleric duoing. So I rescind my mild annoyance.

Also, your above analogy doesn't work for reasons already talked about. HGs/specs are mobs meant to be killed and not worth nearly the money or experience of guards.

Ya'll are really upset about this, when it does make a ton of sense. As the Devs have said, guard killing was ended in 2000 when it caught on. It caught on earlier here, and it really is unbalanced.

One other thing I don't really get, is why Hasbinbad is directing people to the bug forums. I get the rage at people whining about server changes when it's the devs' baby (although I feel input should be allowed when it's not whining), but how is this a bug issue? It's a change people want undone. Some are whining, some are being rational (although I think the rational evidence tends to favor keeping the change for the most part, and that's why the devs did it)... but it's not a bug of any sort. It's a change being debated/whined about, depending on the poster.

Falisaty
07-14-2010, 09:34 PM
Also, your above analogy doesn't work for reasons already talked about. HGs/specs are mobs meant to be killed and not worth nearly the money or experience of guards.

well they are a mob that is on a 6 min timer and yes they are worth the money and exp... HG have a chance to drop up to 40p per kill and Ferrot specters yield way more exp than any guard in FP to oggok so it is a perfect analogy.... and how are guards not meant to be killed if they were not meant to be killed then they should not be targetable.

to the dev team... im not bitching im just trying to grasp the reasoning behind the nerf.... just because people are using it to level faster more power to them its not like only a select few people are able to do this its open to EVERY PERSON on this server. to the fact taht its screwing up the economy all i can say is no its not, the people who exploited duping and caused the influx of PP into the economy are the ones that screwed up the economy and are the reasons we have to farm FS in order to buy the outragus priced gear on this server

Hasbinbad
07-14-2010, 10:00 PM
try to be nicer
Ok.

PLEASE shut the fuck up.

Hasbinbad
07-14-2010, 10:02 PM
omg you guys, just shut up.. seriously.. if you dont like how they do shit, fucking leave. nobody gives a shit that you cant farm guards. shut the fuck up. PLEASE

mmiles8
07-14-2010, 10:06 PM
Being open to every person is part of the problem. HGs and Spectres are limited in number and competitive. If everyone has access to endless plat at a rate out of balance with the rest of the game, it causes inflation. If dupers also caused inflation, two sources of inflation compound a problem, rather than negate it.

Economic health is of extreme importance to a game. You can google this and find dissertations on the topic. Eve actually hires a RL economist to do economic reports on their servers.

Classic did not have a lot of plat sinks. Sinks being ways for money to exit the game, rather than change hands, so any inflation will be slow to recover from, if at all. Spells, reagents, and high cost, vendor based tradeskills such as blacksmithing and jewelcrafting are really the only three significant money sinks, and these were designed to be in balance with the rate that money enters a game through intended means.

Dissimilar to classic eq in 1999, everyone playing here has the advantage of essentially being clairvoyant. Everyone knows the inside secrets of the game. We had the jump on the guards, rather than it being a slowly leaked secret that became popular after folks had been max level for a while. If the change didn't go through, you would see prices similar to EQLive today, before Kunark made it through development.

Whether folks agree or disagree, I hope this makes at least a little sense out of the confusion.

Also, telling folks to shut up didn't work the first 20 times you did it. Rather than clutter the thread as if you had tourette's, take the hint :)

MrSquirrelbane
07-14-2010, 10:07 PM
I'm aware of that quote - it still doesn't answer my question. Are dungeon NPC's, on average, on a 22-28 minute timer? I'm sure this is true in some dungeons (like Unrest for example), but this is definitely not true for every dungeon.

Lower Guk = 28 min
Sol A = 24 min
Sol B = 22 min (could be wrong, was never much of a sol b person)

edit: May have sol a and b spawn times reversed! Point stands though.

So yes, level 35+ dungeons are on average a 22-28 minute timer.

Falisaty
07-14-2010, 10:29 PM
yes even though they are limited in number and competitive their are a lot better ways to make money.... Seafurres in OOT can farm them for almost 4k a night in a 6 to 8 hour run and thats with sharing the island. their are other ways that money is going to flow into the economy.... the fact that mobs drop items that sell for 5p or 35p is going to cause inflation and the fact that the merchants can buy siad items with endless amounts of PP is going to cause inflation. this shouldnt be a deciding factor in why a mobs spawn time should be nerfed because where their is one spot to do it their are 5 other spots to do it

mmiles8
07-14-2010, 10:38 PM
It isn't the only reason, if you go back a page there's a link to Verant's original reasoning. Also note that I was not privy to the decision making process, DoACleric may have had completely different reasoning. I'm just doing my best to field what I can.

Lazortag
07-14-2010, 10:43 PM
Lower Guk = 28 min
Sol A = 24 min
Sol B = 22 min (could be wrong, was never much of a sol b person)

edit: May have sol a and b spawn times reversed! Point stands though.

So yes, level 35+ dungeons are on average a 22-28 minute timer.

Thanks, this is the information I wanted - makes sense now.

Feather
07-14-2010, 11:54 PM
Anything that keeps people from killing the handsome bouncer in Oggok has my vote.

tnyadno
07-15-2010, 12:15 AM
This is where you're wrong. We don't need you; you need us.


Heh Nilbog, I personally am confident that if zero people presently, or in the future participated on this server, you would resume dedicating your personal time to it for free.

I'm also confident plants don't need us for carbon dioxide, we only need them for oxygen.

StormWolf
07-15-2010, 01:36 AM
My sentiments exactly. The only explanation I can come up with, is that this server is "classic" however Rogean and co. deem it to be. /shrug

And that would be their right. Now, you can either choose to find another FREE server that pleases you more, or you can suck it up and deal.

They are spending money out of their pockets to provide you something for free. Be thankful, or move on.

I'm fairly new to this server and even I know that.

StormWolf
07-15-2010, 01:54 AM
Actually, you egomaniac, this is where you're wrong.

What reason would you or anyone else have to code or dev the game without US? None what-so-ever. Keep living in that dream world.

I'm sure you'd really see a point to developing Kunark like you are, with 15 people playing on this server. What a joke. Maybe you should stick to letting the other devs post so you don't make them all look bad.

Why not put that to the test, then? Leave and take anyone willing to leave with you. See how that works out.

nilbog
07-15-2010, 01:57 AM
Actually, you egomaniac, this is where you're wrong.

What reason would you or anyone else have to code or dev the game without US? None what-so-ever. Keep living in that dream world.

I'm sure you'd really see a point to developing Kunark like you are, with 15 people playing on this server. What a joke. Maybe you should stick to letting the other devs post so you don't make them all look bad.

Oh, I have no problem allowing all the normal people to play here. You most certainly count as a dissident. Thanks for clarifying that for me.

nicemace
07-15-2010, 03:14 AM
Actually, you egomaniac, this is where you're wrong.

What reason would you or anyone else have to code or dev the game without US? None what-so-ever. Keep living in that dream world.

I'm sure you'd really see a point to developing Kunark like you are, with 15 people playing on this server. What a joke. Maybe you should stick to letting the other devs post so you don't make them all look bad.

they gain knowledge from doing the work... its like self teaching in a way.

same reason people make hacks and stuff for games. as nilbog said, they dont actually need us at all.

as for the guard topic. that shit had to be changed, i could make 800pp an hour and do a 40+ level in 4 hours by soloing guards with zero risk. that shit was unbalanced.

Noleafclover
07-15-2010, 03:34 AM
well they are a mob that is on a 6 min timer and yes they are worth the money and exp... HG have a chance to drop up to 40p per kill and Ferrot specters yield way more exp than any guard in FP to oggok so it is a perfect analogy.... and how are guards not meant to be killed if they were not meant to be killed then they should not be targetable.

to the dev team... im not bitching im just trying to grasp the reasoning behind the nerf.... just because people are using it to level faster more power to them its not like only a select few people are able to do this its open to EVERY PERSON on this server. to the fact taht its screwing up the economy all i can say is no its not, the people who exploited duping and caused the influx of PP into the economy are the ones that screwed up the economy and are the reasons we have to farm FS in order to buy the outragus priced gear on this server

To the part to me, all I have to say is 1.2k an hour. AS A MONK. I believe someone elsewhere (maybe you in another of your many posts) quoted seafuries as a good source of income, 4k in a 7 hour night (you said 6 or 8). There's a big difference between 600p an hour and 1.2k an hour. If you farm at a high level you'll recognize how large the difference is, it's double mathematically but a whole huge leap in whether you'll move yourself to the computer for the plat that you want to save for kunark or whatever item. Also, a select few classes, well-known to be farming classes, can put up those numbers at SFs. Druids, mages, necros, enches and that's about it.

As for your reasoning-grasping, when guards are better than, or as good as, everything else in the game, and easier; even though everyone has access to them, they're unbalanced with relation to the game.

Another quote, Yendorlootmonkey: I care that this was changed ahead of schedule because it was "broken" as admitted by Verant, yet class-based XP penalties are left in even though they were "broken" as admitted by Verant, and I'm wondering why this is so.

Guards're broken on a rational level as well as "as admitted by Verant." Exp penalties, however, make sense on a rational level for hybrids, esp. in classic where Knights are used as tanks in raids (I suppose I'd agree that rangers do not deserve exp penalties, but they serve to dissuade people from playing rangers :) ).

Also, Verant made the hybrid exp change to try to get more people to play the game, I believe, the guard change to save the economy. We're more interested in the economy, since there's no product being sold. Verant also added mercs and other things to make the game easy-mode to attract customers, we do not want these.

Just because you use the words "broken as admitted by Verant" twice, does not mean they're equal things. Your analogy is a fallacy because you're equating things that aren't actually equal.

Noleafclover
07-15-2010, 03:44 AM
Actually, you egomaniac, this is where you're wrong.

What reason would you or anyone else have to code or dev the game without US? None what-so-ever. Keep living in that dream world.

I'm sure you'd really see a point to developing Kunark like you are, with 15 people playing on this server. What a joke. Maybe you should stick to letting the other devs post so you don't make them all look bad.

What reason would charities have to do work if poor people became rich? Biting the hand.

nicemace
07-15-2010, 03:53 AM
whoever is saying they can make 1.2k an hour as a monk on guards is just telling fibs.

my level 46 pet in grobb kills guards way faster than a monk would with zero down time and instant pulling. can kill 9 guards in the 6 min respawn time.

in grobb every guard drops a longsword that sells for 12pp (11.8 but meh ill say 12) every time, which makes it better than oggok who drop fine steal which is 6pp per fs and some times only drops 1.

so every 6 mins thats 108pp, so 1080pp for the hour assuming you dont get any unlucky charm breaks and need to zone which do happen. so 800 - 900pp for the hour is pretty much the max you can get on guards.

monks are telling lies :D

mmiles8
07-15-2010, 04:01 AM
I am entitled...

The root of all trolling, folks

Noleafclover
07-15-2010, 05:41 AM
whoever is saying they can make 1.2k an hour as a monk on guards is just telling fibs.

my level 46 pet in grobb kills guards way faster than a monk would with zero down time and instant pulling. can kill 9 guards in the 6 min respawn time.

in grobb every guard drops a longsword that sells for 12pp (11.8 but meh ill say 12) every time, which makes it better than oggok who drop fine steal which is 6pp per fs and some times only drops 1.

so every 6 mins thats 108pp, so 1080pp for the hour assuming you dont get any unlucky charm breaks and need to zone which do happen. so 800 - 900pp for the hour is pretty much the max you can get on guards.

monks are telling lies :D

Edit, actually some people may still want to farm at my spot so I'll just shut it. Monks aren't tellin lies though :) Not grobb or oggok =p

nicemace
07-15-2010, 05:58 AM
RV :P

YendorLootmonkey
07-15-2010, 10:09 AM
Guards're broken on a rational level as well as "as admitted by Verant." Exp penalties, however, make sense on a rational level for hybrids, esp. in classic where Knights are used as tanks in raids (I suppose I'd agree that rangers do not deserve exp penalties, but they serve to dissuade people from playing rangers :) ).

All I know is when I do a /who all 1 50 ranger during prime time and there are only 13 non-anon rangers and at level 32, I'm the highest level non-anon ranger on the server, some shit's broken. Or a lot of rangers are /anon because they're embarrassed to be rangers. :)

Meanwhile, druids/chanters/necros/bards/mages are running around soloing, named farming, quad-kiting, AE-song kiting shit with ease. You tell me where that 40% class XP penalty should be to compensate for "super powerful abilities of the class" :P

Overcast
07-15-2010, 10:21 AM
The root of all trolling, folks

+1

Reiker
07-15-2010, 10:26 AM
Playing a ranger is easy. Step 1) /anon. Step 2) Get a dagger for your main hand. Step 3) Level x Rogue LFG

Froshpra
07-15-2010, 10:28 AM
Playing a ranger is easy. Step 1) /anon. Step 2) Get a dagger for your main hand. Step 3) Level x Rogue LFG

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

YendorLootmonkey
07-15-2010, 11:17 AM
Playing a ranger is easy. Step 1) /anon. Step 2) Get a dagger for your main hand. Step 3) Level x Rogue LFG

Hahaha so that explains why there are only 13 non-anon rangers on during prime-time... we're just the slow learners!!! All the rest are pretending to be rogues to get groups. :(

tj218
07-15-2010, 11:28 AM
Meanwhile, druids/chanters/necros/bards/mages are running around soloing, named farming, quad-kiting, AE-song kiting shit with ease. You tell me where that 40% class XP penalty should be to compensate for "super powerful abilities of the class" :P


I think my memory has faded a bit, but I don't remember the pets being this strong. A level 20 pet, double attacking and duel wielding consistently every attack round, happens all the time now.

Used to play as a melee class on a pvp server 1999-2001(Vallon) and I never had an issue with mages Lvl 15-35ish. Now an even level mage pet could easily pwn 2-3 same level melee types, let alone the casting from mage...ouch.

Reiker
07-15-2010, 11:50 AM
It was always that way.

Insedeel
07-15-2010, 11:56 AM
Reading the flames in this post saddens me. People need to understand that the devs are creating content as best as they can FOR US and FOR FREE. They do things the way they do because they feel its the best way to make the game that THEY want to create; if you dont like that, the door is open for you to take a hike.

This will never be 100% classic and its silly to assume that things will be done exactly the same way. If you have suggestions, post them in the correct manner and dont spam the forums with flames; its going to just piss the people who are donating time to us and make them shut the server down. If you're some kind of vindictive asshat that enjoys ruining things for others, get medicated or smoke some pot or /wrists cause we dont want you here if you are gonna be a jerk.

Great job so far Devs. I really enjoy the fact that this isnt some carebear, cookie cutter wow cloned game and that its a challenge. Dont ever cave into the forum trolls please!
^
My sentiments exactly..

Btw, THANK YOU Haynar for the further changes to pets, and the healing threat change. I appreciate all of the work all of you do on this game and server. I'm happy to see that everything continues to be brought back to classic despite the whiners, keep it up! Nuff said ^.^

Messianic
07-15-2010, 12:23 PM
What reason would charities have to do work if poor people became rich? Biting the hand.

It depends on the charity. Many charities are simply wings of larger organizations or direct subsidiaries who would actually prosper (by funneling transferable resources to the main entity) if they had less overhead from those they serve.

Messianic
07-15-2010, 12:24 PM
Playing a ranger is easy. Step 1) /anon. Step 2) Get a dagger for your main hand. Step 3) Level x Rogue LFG

This qualifies as the post of the month

Aeolwind
07-15-2010, 02:04 PM
lol, I received a message from Nilbog that stated that I'm off my leash!

so, go rampant and kill everyone for all i care

and this came to mind

When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come and see.” So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.