HP vs AC - for shammies

[Seducio]

Over in the priest forum a few of us are discussing equipment dilemmas for Shaman. If you have anything to add, I would appreciate your help with that thread.

Essentially at what level should one begin to prioritize AC over HP, if ever?

Case in point: Platinum Tiara (3AC +35HP +50Mana) vs. Jaundiced Bone Helm (18AC)

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=118073&page=2

I wanted to open up the discussion to more input.

[SamwiseRed]

hp imo

[Thulack]

hp imo

[Seducio]

I understand HP is king. I'm a chanter. :p

It just seems like when I compare those two items:

The difference is 35HP vs 15AC if we ignore mana.

35HP>15AC makes sense low levels to me, but does that ring true all the way to 60?

Phobus makes the point in the other thread that when mobs are hitting/doubling/tripling in the 100s that the AC might come in more handy.

On the other hand, the HP essentially increases my survivability and mana pool all the time via Canni.

First world problems!

[Seducio]

I also seem to recall that AC coming from the Head slot, Chest slot, and Secondary slots might carry more weight in their AC calculation compared with AC from other slots because they are protecting vital areas.

I'm not sure if that refers to the mechanics on p99, but I've read that before somewhere regarding eq.

Understanding the AC formulas was always funky for me considering what we see on our UI isn't accurate.

[newsmurf]

the question at hand is relevant to the gear you are wearing at the moment, as well as the mob you wish to kill. there's not a lot of mobs in kunark as a shaman that you dont need a heavy amount of ac to tank, unless you're doing a solo artist stunt and plan on tanking said mob without strings. would 90% of the time pick the tiara. the 15 ac by itself won't mitigate anything.

[Seducio]

Well, let's think this through together.

I think it is a pretty illustrative choice of how impactful AC is in general on p99.

15AC is nothing to sneeze at. Especially coming from one slot (any word on whether head slot conveys more weight in mitigation calculation?) The question is how much would this decrease a mobs dps?

And if 15AC isn't enough to trade for +35HP item....

How much AC would it hypothetically take for you to think it was worthwhile to trade out a +35HP item?

[newsmurf]

40ish. like i said theres no mobs in kunark you need a significant amount of ac for, unless im soloing jugs or want to tank fungi king for shits n giggles.

[newsmurf]

in velious however this is a different story completely.

[Sarius]

So for other slots then:

Withered leather boots > JB Boots?

Dusty Rusted Vambs > JB Vambs?

[newsmurf]

yes very much so. or use withered leather sleeves depending on where your wisdom is at.

[phobus]

I also seem to recall that AC coming from the Head slot, Chest slot, and Secondary slots might carry more weight in their AC calculation compared with AC from other slots because they are protecting vital areas.

I'm not sure if that refers to the mechanics on p99, but I've read that before somewhere regarding eq.

Understanding the AC formulas was always funky for me considering what we see on our UI isn't accurate.

I've only heard that AC in the secondary (shield) slot is applied after the soft cap.

Have any of you guys done any parsing to back up your preferences?

[Thulack]

I've only heard that AC in the secondary (shield) slot is applied after the soft cap.

Have any of you guys done any parsing to back up your preferences?

Still this way on live so not sure why would be different here. As stated all AC is the same except on shield where it can go over the softcap.

[radditsu]

Hp all the way. Keep in mind that gloves suck. After the kylong fix I rolled around with jaundiced.

[newsmurf]

keep in mind hp good for solo not so much anything else

[Tecmos Deception]

keep in mind hp good for solo not so much anything else

Have you ever played a shaman?

[Pan]

how is this even a question?

[Ciroco]

It's a question because it's logical that a stat called armor class would be useful to all classes.

[newsmurf]

Have you ever played a shaman?

i am the best shaman on the server.

[newsmurf]

obviously hp is good but i dont prioritize over mana for killing 2-3 man mobs.

[phobus]

Hp all the way. Keep in mind that gloves suck. After the kylong fix I rolled around with jaundiced.

If it's HP all the way, why would you choose Kylong or Jaundiced Bone over White Satin Gloves?

[xassis]

I'd personally put my vote into HP.

[radditsu]

If it's HP all the way, why would you choose Kylong or Jaundiced Bone over White Satin Gloves?

never bothered to get them!

[kaos057]

i am the best shaman on the server.

obviously hp is good but i dont prioritize over mana for killing 2-3 man mobs.

You must have a lot of horrible shamans on that server.

[Norathorr]

I changed from some low ac +small amount of wisdom crap to JB arms and gloves and hat. I immediately noticed a huge boost to mitigation. I think people place a low value on ac when in fact it can be quite important. I know on live it was eventually proved for tanks ac>hp. Having a High hp pool is great for canni'ing when solo, but in groups perhaps a balance between hp and ac is more wise than going all out one or the other. If you have alot of hp but take maximum hits most of the time it will not be as good as having less hp more ac and taking more minimum or low hits.

[webrunner5]

I have always looked at Classes with the gear that is specific to them. Lets take a Warrior. Cobalt gear is is over the top with pretty much one stat. AC. Guess what it helps when pretty much your main job is to get beat on. Look at a Monk. Wu's. I think every piece of it but one slot has Agility on it. I know now we put a lot of points in stamina and strength. But I don't think the original Devs never thought a Monk was going to be used as a Main Tank. Agility to avoid getting hit pulling and off tanking. Surely the Devs had some "CLUE" what was best for each class.

I know after this many years we have figured a few things out that work or not. Like a TON of Charisma on a Enchanter works for Charms. And Casters have always needed HP to survive a few hits.

But I have to admit a Shaman is a odd duck in the mix. Do you go with Wisdom, HP, AC. Sad to say on my Shaman I have more gear I carry in bags than my Warrior. Not weapons though lol. You sort of need all of it at different times. In a group as a lone healer you NEED HP for Canni. With a Fungi on and secondary healer you sort of need Wisdom. If you are soloing hard mobs toe to toe I like a combo of both HP and AC. More toward the AC side. Doing a caster you need HP. It never ends.

I have said it several times in here that a Shaman is FAR and away the most expensive class to equip. High end spells are scary also. Hell look at Canni II. 3k for a level 39 spell?? Crazy. :eek:

[HallygukRZ]

Reasonable question of the OP, thanks for bringing this up! I've started a similar thread in the shaman forums about a week ago. What I gather from my own experience is that AC on p99 is less effective than AC on live.

Played/playing a shaman both on live and p99. Iirc on live there was the guideline of like 10hp being equal to about 4 AC (before the cap). Now I am under the impression that no matter what on P99 HP > AC all the way.

This is the thread I started:
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=117653

Is my memory shady or is HP>AC on p99 all the way?

[Spitty]

Why can't we have both?

I have six or seven slots I'll swap out regularly for hp/mana/AC depending on the situation. Self buffed, I'm variable between 2100-2400hp, 850-950AC and 2400-2900 mana.

AC is helpful when tanking shrooms/juggs/prot/etc, and 100 AC makes a significant difference - especially without frontal bash immunity. Mana is helpful when you're doing one encounter that calls on having a larger pool to blow through, and little opportunity to recover mana during the fight. HP is obviously helpful, for obvious reasons.

[xexbis0]

AC is god. Just ask softies. I'd tend to go AC unless the combined hp/mana is 2-3x more than the AC upgrade. Keep in mind that a 15 AC difference on an item will actually translate to 25-30 in your profile.