Some Fun Raid Changes [Archive]

Splorf22

08-07-2013, 12:37 PM

After posting my rage thread about the difference between the raid scene being fair and fun, Sirken suggested I do just a bit more, so here I am, to the dismay of the trolls. I just wrote up a few of the ideas I had and put them into a poll: the options are separate so you can vote for each one if you like it or not if you dislike it.

Simultaneous Repops: Previous polls have shown that pretty much everyone likes these. Simultaneous repops are great and all, but they last about 45 minutes on Project 1999. So the next set of changes are designed to slow the players down a little, hopefully in more or less classic ways.

Forbidding training in Veeshan's Peak, if only during the reset, is one of the easy ones. The whole point of a reset is to spread out the players, but currently you can just send a few trainers to lock down VP until everything else is dead. Veeshan's Peak is something like 1/3 of all raid mobs, and if the top guilds were forced to go there immediately, even if only for Phara Dar, it would really open up the rest of the world.

Antipoopsocking code: Very few people on live would have had a spare 'raid toon' to camp out at targets fully buffed, and the fact that raid guilds demand this of their members is one of the biggest drawbacks for people with only one high-level toon. Solution: Any toon camped in one of the raid zones will log in at a different spot during the 2 hours immediately following a reset. So for example anyone camped in Sebilis would respawn at the portal outside; anyone camped in the Plane of Hate would appear at the WC spires, and so on. The goal would be to force players to actually mobilize with one toon rather than just shuffle between camped alts.

Reset All Named: I like this as a way of giving all players a little bit of access to the raid scene. When the server resets; respawn every mob but increase the chance of rare spawns and the chance of rare drops (say 50% rather than 25%). This gives everyone a little something to do. In addition, all camp rights would poof on a server reset.

The chance of a reset occurring is proportional to the number of players logged in: I like about 1 reset per 500 population per week (I'm guessing we're probably at about 750 average population right now, so we'd get 3 resets every two weeks on average). So every tick the server flips a coin with chance #players-online / (500*10*60*24*7). This not only will bias resets towards the times when the most people are on, it will naturally account for shifts in population given the summer/winter cycle or Velious or whatever. edit: At least when I proposed SR, I proposed them as a replacement for variance spawns, not an addition

Antileapfrogging policy in Fear: The classic method of clearing Fear one mob at a time is completely impossible with FTE rules on P1999; instead it turns into nasty pseudopvp with train wars and death touch cycles. I'm thinking something like: killing one mob in fear gives you the right to the whole zone for one minute; a window which would be extended an additional minute with the next mob, and so on (but capped at 15 minutes). edit: this really should not be much harder to implement than the FTE code

Change Nagafen and Vox to banish L56+: This is specifically not classic, but a L56 cap would encompass a lot more new players who are actually leveling up instead of alt armies designed specifically for this purpose.

Move TMO to the red server: I'm just kidding guys :D

Nogdar

08-07-2013, 12:57 PM

Can't like em all but quality suggestions for sure! :)

August

08-07-2013, 01:05 PM

The chance of a reset occurring is proportional to the number of players logged in

I'm a sucker for elegant solutions. When you pair this with:

Antipoopsocking code

I think you get a much healthier environment. Enforces mobilization, destroys raid windows, only requires you to have 1 high level toon that can be wherever he needs to be, and spreads out loot distribution assuming we're talking simultaneous reset of all targets.

The other ones seem specific to raid encounters and I hate whitelisting/blacklisting content that should really reflect a change to an entire policy not a special case situation. Don't believe that training should ever be allowed. Don't believe 'leapfrogging' should be tolerated - although in my time guilds who did this were shunned, and that's how we enforced it.

zanderklocke

08-07-2013, 01:21 PM

Antileapfrogging policy in Fear: The classic method of clearing Fear one mob at a time is completely impossible with FTE rules on P1999; instead it turns into nasty pseudopvp with train wars and death touch cycles. I'm thinking something like: killing one mob in fear gives you the right to the whole zone for one minute; a window which would be extended an additional minute with the next mob, and so on (but capped at 15 minutes).

I didn't vote for this because I thought it sounded messy as hell to code and a little too complex for my taste.

Frieza_Prexus

08-07-2013, 01:26 PM

Excellent suggestions.

I disagree with the Vox/Nag changes, and the fear changes sound messy.

Perhaps the only change I would suggest for fear is that any guild actively clearing when Cazic pops can have an uncontested 1.5 hours (or something similar) before any other guild may raid the zone. The burden of proving "when" he popped would be on the clearing guild, and if they cannot substantiate (via fraps or /time stamped SS's) they lose the protection of the rule.

Estu

08-07-2013, 01:26 PM

Some of these changes seem rather too complicated to be realistic or viable, but I like the first two (especially if the simultaneous repops were weekly at least).

Personally, one complicated change I think would be fun would be to replace variance as it currently is set up with an exponential probability distribution. This would basically mean that a given raid mob would have the same chance of spawning at any given span of time (so for example, it would spawn an expected amount of twice in any given seven-day span, an expected amount of 2/7 in any given 24-hour span, and so on), but there are no restrictions on how short or how long the times between spawns are. So there's no such thing as being near the beginning or end of the window; it's just as likely to spawn at a given time right after having just been killed as it is to spawn a week after it was killed. This is a very natural probability distribution and occurs in real life a lot (at least, approximately; it's kind of like flipping a coin every millisecond to see if the monster spawns. Realistically for P99, you'd be flipping a coin every server tick), and I think it would make more sense than having windows as we currently do. Plus, it would be fun to know that there's a small chance that right after you kill a boss, it respawns while you're still looting it :p

The implication of using this distribution for raid mobs would be that people wouldn't be sitting around poopsocking at the end of the window because they know it's bound to spawn soon (as they would with the old variance set-up), but also, you don't have the extended variance mechanic which comes with its own set of flaws (as it's currently set up, it reduces the number of spawns, and also, monsters are more likely to spawn if you're in a period of extended variance (I think; haven't read the exact description in a while)).

Actually, applying these distributions to every monster in P99 would make the game a lot more chaotic and interesting, in my opinion, though, granted, not classic.

Splorf22

08-07-2013, 01:44 PM

Guys, I have a PhD in computer science. For example, the antipoopsocking "code" (please forgive my mixing twelve different programming languages), inserted somewhere into the login function:

when (getTime() - lastRepopTime < TwoHours) {
case player.zone:
Sebilis: player.location = {Trakanon's Teeth, -100, -100, -100}
Hate: player.location = {West Commonlands, -100, -100, -100}
t: /* do nothing */
}

Or, the fear leapfrogging code:

String engagedGuild = "";
int ticksRemaining = 0;

OnMobEngage(player p) {
if(engagedGuild != "") {
engagedGuild = p.guild;
ticksRemaining = 20;
}

if(engagedGuild != p.guild)
QueueTell(to:p, from:"Rogean", text: "You have leapfrogged guild X! They may choose to petition you!"
}

OnMobKill() {
ticksRemaining += 10;
}

OnTick() {
ticksRemaining -= 1;
if(ticksRemaining <= 0) {
QueueBroadcast("GuildX has timed out!"
EngagedGuild = "";
}
}

Also I'm curious that not more people like my repop probability proportional to player population. At least when I suggested simultaneous repops, I meant them mostly as a replacement for the retarded variance scene we have now, not an addition.

August

08-07-2013, 01:50 PM

Handull

08-07-2013, 02:37 PM

I like the Anti-Poopsocking code from the stand point of it does what you say about making it harder to camp out a raid for a mob during a repop. I don't like the idea because I feel like in the end it will just be another rule that guilds get around by having the right classes camped out in the right spots with the right buffs. I think it sounds elegant for some zones (seb, hate, etc), but can get messy with others. You would also have to fix the training/agro mechanics in order to have this (this would also help fix some of the train war issues that happen in fear, but not all of them) that being if you run past me with a train, I should get on that train's agro list, currently I won't be on their agro list unless I engage them, buff/heal you, or you lose agro (die/zone/fd) while I'm inside their agro range. With the current system Trak would become a race for monks/necros/sks to train away see invis mobs so a guild could run down and fte+stall tank. Stopping to fight any see invis juggs or, heaven forbid, engaging prot/tola before Trak would cause a guild to lose the race, etc.

But nice post, there is a lot that can be said about all this.

edit: forgot to say, i think the biggest/best thing we can have is the simultaneous repops. Being in a smaller guild that raided the planes a while ago, we got to experience one or two server repops, and we tried to go after mobs. The biggest problem we faced was the organization. When you plan a planar raid there is no rigid start time, log on 15 minutes late and no one really cares. Don't have ot hammers, wc caps, and convenient bind spots set up, and its just a small inconvenience for your porters to run out and collect everyone. But when racing for a raid mob, those minutes add up, and the best way to get better at it is experience. People will get ot hammers/wc caps/etc when they learn the hard way that they are going to miss an attempt at Inny because they were left behind for being in lake rathe with no way to gate, etc. A repop here and there is a little fun, but if we started to see them regularly we'd start to see more and more smaller guilds figuring out how to organize just a little better to make sure they get an attempt at a mob, rather than spending 20 minutes trying to organize just to watch a top end guild run in get their 4th kill of the repop on the mob you wanted.

Wotsirb401

08-07-2013, 02:52 PM

It all boils down to people know way too much about this game now. Back in 1998/9 people didnt farm idols beacause there was no need to stall tank etc. At least on my server everything was up for the most part and roatations were communicated.

Splorf22

08-07-2013, 03:18 PM

Well, I think 95% of the stuff I proposed is extremely classic. The antipoopsocking code is not, and is tailored to the specific situation we have here at 1999 with twelve accounts per person.

In the end I think it's very difficult to predict what would actually happen. These are just some reasonable ideas to try; if something happens then give the players a few months to adjust and see what happens.

agdros

08-07-2013, 03:19 PM

Not classic.
GM/Server management have repeatedly stated they will not "manage" raid content.
They are very interested in seeing the player base change the raid situation on thier own.

xarzzardorn

08-07-2013, 03:19 PM

some shortsighted suggestions. leap frogging happens in a lot of zones. zones like plane of hate for example. in fact it is a much bigger problem in almost every zone but pofear.

camping out at mobs isn't poopsocking but people will try to describe things that don't benefit them negatively all the time. with that said it wouldn't be bad if there was some way to stop it but i'm sure whatever solution you had in mind would be quickly circumvented. trackers will just cycle logins and eventually it'll turn into a 2 hour sock when the port trigger happens. even porting out the entire zone would mess with everyone doing stuff other than trakanon, though it would make for better fun.

nagafen and lady vox can already be stalled indefinitely by a single group of 52 players. not really sure why you would want to raise the level requirement

idol stalls happen because FTE is the master decider. tmo has lost mobs to single FE players because of the mistaken belief that them not having an actual raid nulled their engagement. until you come up with a better and ~equally objective way of awarding loot that won't change.

its my belief that velious will fix a lot of these problems just by the sheer increase in difficulty, aside from certain mobs eg Zlandicar.

A1551

08-07-2013, 03:22 PM

loraen I wish you were on the dev team here :P

I like Etsu's idea too about essentially eliminating windows altogether -- this would really make camping armies out on top of spawns near the end of their windows / in extended windows useless, meaning even guilds like TMO would have to limit their alt army camping to high priority mobs as opposed to whatever is currently in window. I actually think I've seen jeremy propose this or something very similar to it in the past.

A1551

08-07-2013, 03:31 PM

Not classic.
GM/Server management have repeatedly stated they will not "manage" raid content.
They are very interested in seeing the player base change the raid situation on thier own.

Neither is the current setup of variance/extended windows etc -- so that's kind of a silly argument. And frequent patch day repops WERE classic, so ditto.

No one is asking them to "manage" raid content more than they already are -- loraen didn't have a box up above saying "GM managed-rotation" -- the server staff already manage raid content via variance/extended windows, etc. These are some possible alternatives that would probably make the raiding scene more fun for everyone / less ridiculous overall. And they're mostly predicated on keeping GM enforcement to a minimum.

Faerie

08-07-2013, 03:39 PM

Move TMO to the red server

Yes please.

agdros

08-07-2013, 03:50 PM

I agree that variance/extended windows is not classic.
I have no issue with simulated patch days, or random server reboots. That is definately classic.

Faerie

08-07-2013, 03:54 PM

Wait, why aren't we considering transferring TMO to red as a serious option? Would do wonders for both servers, and give TMO the competition they say they crave.

I think we're really onto something here!

Splorf22

08-07-2013, 03:55 PM

Appreciate the constructive post.

in fact leapfrogging is a much bigger problem in almost every zone but pofear.

Well as I have stated before I think EQ is just not designed to deal with two raid forces in the same zone. It's always going to about training stuff away and there isn't a lot that can be done about this other without substantial changes to game mechanics. However, I think the issue is particularly severe in the Plane of Fear because of the way Cazic summons the zone. I remember when I was in VD we had like 10 zone desyncs in a row when zerging him with 75 players and 100+ mobs being summoned and that Botnet trying to hunt him down when he was at 5% or something.

even porting out the entire zone

this is basically what I am proposing. The server goes down, so everyone has to camp out, and when they log back in . . . things have changed.

its my belief that velious will fix a lot of these problems just by the sheer increase in difficulty, aside from certain mobs eg Zlandicar.

I just don't see EQ raiding as difficult when you can always zerg stuff. If you can't handle the Avatar of War with 24, bring 50. Or 100. Or 200. I'm sure the server will have some 500-1000 raiders when everyone comes back for Velious.

P.S. I finally figured out Propo Fol thanks to your avatar. It's a cute name!

Kelven

08-07-2013, 04:20 PM

While some of these ideas seem to have some validity, I don't see a lot of them being viable for the server.

Simultaneous Repops: +1

Forbidding training in Veeshan's Peak: Training is stupid. anywhere.

Antipoopsocking code: Too complicated honestly.

Reset All Named: I don't really see a valid point here. Every rare spawn will eventually show up if you camp it for a little while. You would in essence be changing the definition of a rare spawn.

Antileapfrogging policy in Fear: I dunno if a +1minute code is viable. Honestly, if you've cleared most of the zone -- it should be yours unless you wipe ( or you're taking too long to engage the boss). There's just TOO MUCH GREED on this server.

Change Nagafen and Vox to banish L56+: Lvl 52 was a good cap for this because of the Lvl Nagafen and Vox themselves were. If you increased this to 56 -- even fewer people would be required to kill them, and that would enable faster kills.. which in turn would decrease the chances you had in getting a kill ( which I think is what you were going for )

Sarius

08-07-2013, 04:29 PM

A+ Loraen!

I really like the idea of the anti-poopsocking code, that will really even things out without any sort of "handout"

Splorf22

08-07-2013, 04:40 PM

Antipoopsocking code: Too complicated honestly.

I'm telling you as a computer scientist that this can be implemented very easily.

Anyway if people don't like my particular ideas that's fine. I just think something needs to be done about how raiding on this server is 90% about camping multiple buffed chars out 20 feet away from the spawn points of the various bosses. On Live you were only going to have one toon, and you'd probably be busy leveling/farming with it, so a patch day would actually be about mobilization.

The same goes for the antileapfrogging ideas about the Plane of Fear. I'm just throwing some stuff out there; people are welcome to suggest other ideas. Throwing up your hands and saying 'people are too greedy' isn't going to change anything though.

I have to say I'm amazed this thread is staying civil. It must be because I namedropped Sirken ;D

Frieza_Prexus

08-07-2013, 04:47 PM

I personally like the anti-socking code. For me, I enjoy the race to kill a mob with only minimal preparation and the target triage that always accompanies hard decisions.

In fact, an anti-sock code on repops encourages competition by ensuring that only the best and most organized can rally to a target as opposed to who has the best 4-5 man FTE crew with DA idols CH items. Skill and organization matters a lot more when you can't rely on 4 monks/sks/necros who have huge play times and large amounts of skill. Instead, your weakest links matter, and that's true competition.

Ravager

08-07-2013, 04:57 PM

Also I'm curious that not more people like my repop probability proportional to player population. At least when I suggested simultaneous repops, I meant them mostly as a replacement for the retarded variance scene we have now, not an addition.

I think this is brilliant. Would be roughly the same number of raid mob pops, but a lot more competitive than it is now. I'd think TMO would want something like this if competition is truly their thing.

kaev

08-07-2013, 05:12 PM

I think this is brilliant. Would be roughly the same number of raid mob pops, but a lot more competitive than it is now. I'd think TMO would want something like this if competition is truly their thing.

That's really a strawman argument (the TMO baiting bit.) Those who compete aggressively rarely do so out of love for competition. What they love is winning, thus the incredible popularity of cheating in competitions world-wide and since forever. It's human nature, winning by the safest and most reliable means you can come up with is an obvious response to competition for survival.

It's the makers and enforcers of rules that have responsibility for creating a "fair" competition, most competitors are not going to accept that responsibility no matter how impassioned your arguments that they "should". They'll pay lip service if you demand it, but they'll never stop looking for an edge (just look at the latest MLB juicing scandal.)

falkun

08-07-2013, 07:05 PM

I think the combination of antipoopsock code, simultaneous respawns, and disallowing training in VP would help tier the Kunark raid scene. There are already small semblances of tiers (1: Trak/VS, 2: Sev/Inny/CT/Draco, 3: Gore/Tal/Fay, etc.), but the top tier, VP, is excluded because a small train force can easily save that tier for last. Disallowing training would move that tier back up on the priority list.

**EDIT** Also, everyone says "training in VP will always happen with the messed up pathing in the zone," but why do the raid mobs need to be brought to the zone in? Trakanon and VS are not allowed to be killed at their zone's zone-ins, is there that much additional difficulty racing into VP to kill the mobs near/at their spawn? Heck, the VP map on the wiki already lists "optimal" kill locations near spawns for the bosses from 1999-era strategies. With anti-poopsock code, mobilizing around VP would involve a lot more strategy following resets.

Aaron

08-07-2013, 07:13 PM

I don't have much to add. Just want to give you a kudos for trying to be part of the solution. Great suggestions.

pasi

08-07-2013, 08:17 PM

I'd like to see tokens or a test server with copy character to spawn lootless raid mobs. The specifics can be worked out obviously - maybe lootless instances so it can't be used to grief.

It's not even close to classic, but it would allow for a lot more people to have fun without taking anything away from those who wish to throw away their life for 150 more HP and 10 more DPS.

It would also allow guilds to fight these mobs with reasonable numbers - you know, raid mobs not dying in 20 seconds.

I know Nilbog would never go for this, but a man can dream.

xarzzardorn

08-07-2013, 08:20 PM

you can't stop people from camping out as close to trak as possible until you just move everyone on the server to the same spot. i really don't think logging out is a huge problem except on VS and Trakanon. virtually every other mob has a large % of people moving to the raid from a difference place.

having mobs spawn only via server repop would change the game too much. a mix of single mob spawns and repops suits everyone better, imo. tracking sucks for that one guy who is tracking the mob but his sacrifice improves the experience for his guild tremendously. people camp exp mobs for their rare spawns/drops and that has always been a part of EQ

Well as I have stated before I think EQ is just not designed to deal with two raid forces in the same zone. It's always going to about training stuff away and there isn't a lot that can be done about this other without substantial changes to game mechanics. However, I think the issue is particularly severe in the Plane of Fear because of the way Cazic summons the zone. I remember when I was in VD we had like 10 zone desyncs in a row when zerging him with 75 players and 100+ mobs being summoned and that Botnet trying to hunt him down when he was at 5% or something.

circumventing the zone summon mechanic is the primary reason for this, not the leapfrogging. rushed engages with lots of people (ie on a repop) where the kites aren't being done properly create lag. when both guilds are managing things the correct way, it doesn't. ct is probably the most enjoyable raid when it's being contested and i don't see a reason to change that

Sarius

08-07-2013, 08:49 PM

I think leap-frogging in general is completely fucked up. If a guild is clearly making progress towards a raid mob by clearing to him, I don't feel it's right for another guild to steamroll past then and get FTE.

fastboy21

08-08-2013, 12:43 AM

falkun

08-08-2013, 07:25 AM

no option for "none of the above"...it would get my vote.

classic eq means poopsocking and all the crap that goes along with it. the only options i would support is to reset the server/open a new server so that we can actually follow the correct timeline and to have simulated patch days (i.e. server resets).

So after saying "none of the above," you want simultaneous respawns (server resets/simulated patch days). When you mention "classic" do you also mean "remove variance"? For someone who doesn't like the options, you are ticking a few boxes with your additional comments.

fastboy21

08-08-2013, 10:03 AM

So after saying "none of the above," you want simultaneous respawns (server resets/simulated patch days). When you mention "classic" do you also mean "remove variance"? For someone who doesn't like the options, you are ticking a few boxes with your additional comments.

if simultaneous respawns means exactly recreating patch days, then yes. from the wording of the poll, however, it didn't necessarily mean that and only that.

i don't see a remove variance option on loraen's poll, so I'm not sure what box you think i would be checking there. what option are you referring to?

its possible that i'm reading the options differently than you (or was intended by op), but on their own i think i read them fairly.

falkun

08-08-2013, 10:12 AM

if simultaneous respawns means exactly recreating patch days, then yes. from the wording of the poll, however, it didn't necessarily mean that and only that.

i don't see a remove variance option on loraen's poll, so I'm not sure what box you think i would be checking there. what option are you referring to?

its possible that i'm reading the options differently than you (or was intended by op), but on their own i think i read them fairly.
My apologies, I'm so used to seeing Loraen's posts that I know when he advocates repops, he also advocates repops replacing variance:
Also I'm curious that not more people like my repop probability proportional to player population. At least when I suggested simultaneous repops, I meant them mostly as a replacement for the retarded variance scene we have now, not an addition.

By repops, he means server comes down (likely a nominal 5-15minutes instead of "all morning" that was "Classic Patch Days"), when it comes back up all raid mobs are spawned (or will spawn within the next 15-30minutes). Some of his other options modify the log-in process (like the anti-poopsock code moving players if they are pre-camped).

timhutton

08-08-2013, 10:26 AM

Remove variance, don't allow player vs. player griefing in any form on blue server.

Congratulations the server is now more classic.

Reapin

08-08-2013, 11:05 AM

A simpler solution to bosses being camped would be to have FD not work on them or any mob a certain distance from them. FD is too powerful in that respect.

mecherdon

08-08-2013, 12:18 PM

Can I make a suggestion? On Brell back in classic we would have a play nice raid schedule. Guilds would get an allotment of raid targets that week to do and they would be able to schedule raids for people. This allows for those raiding guilds that have working people to enjoy high level content and not sacrifice their lives to a game. I know people like to outfit their alts but if we could schedule raids for raid guilds then things would be much cordial.

Aaron

08-08-2013, 12:28 PM

Can't schedule raids with variance. Not easily anyway.

mecherdon

08-08-2013, 12:32 PM

Can't schedule raids with variance. Not easily anyway.

You can. Just people cant be assholes... Which seems like it might be impossible in this setting. Heh

Splorf22

10-24-2013, 12:01 AM

SamwiseRed

10-24-2013, 12:10 AM

raids should be, whoever gets xp, gets loot. keep it classic. also variance is dumb. variance only caters to people who are unemployed no-lifers.

smoflow

10-24-2013, 03:31 AM

There is nothing wrong with the raid scene here. The most dedicated and organized players get the most mobs and loot. If you want free loot there is probably a god-mode server somewhere.

kaev

10-24-2013, 05:10 AM

Some of the most dedicated and organized meta gamers get most of the loot. Results have a great deal to do with joining the zerg and gaming the system, not so much to do with playing the game. That's pretty much classic EQ high-end raiding tho, I'll certainly grant you that.

Llodd

10-24-2013, 05:13 AM

Perhaps you mean possibly.

Of course; finding such a server that is also similar in essence is remote, but then you were just being moronic yes?

Elements

10-24-2013, 11:15 AM

More server repops based on population couldnt hurt.

Getsmurfed

10-24-2013, 11:37 AM

variance only caters to people who are unemployed no-lifers.

Somehow, the staff has gotten it into their minds that variance encourages competition. Apparently, requiring 72hr+ tracking sessions for guilds that don't have a bloated roster is encouragement for the small guy to get the wurm.

Krazed

10-24-2013, 05:08 PM

Maybe we need some form of special raid zones you could request prior to entering it. We can call it an "Instance" maybe? And put them on a 1 week timer for reset after the first boss kill. Nothing would respawn for that week and it would save the characters to that specific raid.

This would be a great idea and should make all raid zones Instanced! This would solve all the current high end drama!

Oh wait

Rhambuk

10-24-2013, 05:41 PM

couldnt vote too many choices.

Server repops!
Antipoopsocking code!
No training in VP!
No fear leapfrogging!
I forgot what else was on the list, the one i didnt like was vox/nag change, not classic!

Rhambuk

10-24-2013, 05:42 PM

Somehow, the staff has gotten it into their minds that variance encourages competition. Apparently, requiring 72hr+ tracking sessions for guilds that don't have a bloated roster is encouragement for the small guy to get the wurm.

I still have no idea why they think it encourages competition, unless competition is sitting aside the next guild for 72+ hours hoping to get FTE.

variance, worst thing ever put into place on this server....ever

Yaolin

10-25-2013, 11:34 AM

Too many people on this server that actually want to sit around and track for hours on end because the only thing have left to get in this game is to get one item from one mob because they've already put 200 billion hours into playing in the last few years. Too many people that have nothing better to do than wait around for a text message to log into this toon at this spot because this mob spawned. Too many people in general that have multiple lvl 60 toons. Too many people that would rather join the zerg than actually play with friends and try to fight it in the 3-4 hours a day they can actually play. The unemployment rate is too high. The rules on the server are hilarious. Wewt wewt rNf.

eqravenprince

10-25-2013, 04:04 PM

Spitty

10-25-2013, 04:07 PM

This thread exemplifies the reason why there's six dozen emu servers on eqemu with an average population of exactly zero.

eqravenprince

10-25-2013, 04:15 PM

Back to my placeholder mob idea.... every other Named mob in the game except raid targets has a placeholder. Seems consistent with how the game works everywhere else. Are there issues with Frenzied Ghoul camp? No, because it's a camp, and camp rules seem to work just fine. If you are worried about flooding the game with too many raid items, this shouldn't be an issue if the probably of spawning the raid target is set properly.

Getsmurfed

10-25-2013, 06:02 PM

Change all raid targets to have placeholders with 6 minute timers and a 5% percent chance of spawning the actual raid target. Raids will become more like camps that you have rights to then. The placeholder mob will need to be tough enough that it requires a full group to defeat. Just don't want someone solo holding down the camp. It would prevent one guild from dominating all raid targets.

Except those camps are generally held down by an individual or at most a group. Entire guilds don't throw in with small camps....Raid targets even being compared with LGuk camps is insanity.

eqravenprince

10-25-2013, 09:09 PM

Except those camps are generally held down by an individual or at most a group. Entire guilds don't throw in with small camps....Raid targets even being compared with LGuk camps is insanity.

Raids as they exist in P99 is insanity. I will never raid as it stands now. I have a life and want to keep it that way. My idea solves all my problems with raids. I like the idea of changing raid mobs to be in line more with standard camps in game and having camp rules. You can make it so it doesn't spawn very often, you can make it so it requires a large group to keep killing placeholder in camp.

Morlaeth

10-25-2013, 09:11 PM

simulated patch days not listed? yikes.

Motec

10-25-2013, 09:30 PM

Start project 2000.

Base Rules:
PVE Server.

Remove variance. Its f*cked P1999. Learn from your mistakes please.

Enforced Rotations - Trak, VP, VS, CT, Inny, KT, Statue, All north temple.

FFA FIF with shouts: First Broods, Wtov, Yelinak, Dain, Velk.

Zero warnings for guilds.

Minimum 2 week raid suspensions for infractions.

No mana stones, no guises, no donals bp, no 'progression' mistakes, no bullshit. Just launch a new blue server with velious. Let us have fun levelling a huge community of people that would come back.

Let the players make the new server the mature EQ nostalgia raiding fun it should be. Allow us, the players who have jobs, lives, a wish to help the community, farm, level alts do so, instead of staring at raid spawn walls for 200+ hours every week.

Dont patch it specifically to appease peoples needs to exploit, or have questionable powered items and abilities on only a few individuals. None of the week or month long overpowered patches. Just a fun, fair, player built community, with a strong GM potential to ward off fuckwittery. I doubt it would need any CSR at all aside from stuck corpses/people etc, as the wankers are all too engrossed in their pixels on P1999 anyway.

Splorf22

10-25-2013, 11:15 PM

simulated patch days not listed? yikes.

Simultaneous repops are basically this.

But Motec has great ideas as well. IMO the vast majority of people would enjoy Project 2000 more than Project 1999.

Tecmos Deception

10-26-2013, 05:50 AM

Let the players make the new server the mature EQ nostalgia raiding fun it should be. Allow us, the players who have jobs, lives, a wish to help the community, farm, level alts do so, instead of staring at raid spawn walls for 200+ hours every week.

This is EXACTLY what I do every single day on p99.

What's stopping you?

Besides, its the flavor-of-the-month thought that the staff will launch a "perfect" server after current blue has run its course through Velious. It'd be pretty dumb to make a new server with Velious right now, on the reasoning that we'd be avoiding a bunch of bugs and exploits and questionable balance decisions, when Velious is bound to introduce all of those things back into the game because it hasn't undergone huge testing (i.e. years of actual use by the blue server). Be easy on the staff and if you're going to demand anything at all, demand repops while thanking them for a badass server, then do the stuff you claim to want to do for a couple more years until you finally get your new server.

Brut

10-26-2013, 06:39 AM

Think Ambrotos as reigning raid GM ruled out pulling raid targets out of spawn areas / kiting fear. Made Inny/CT/draco/maestro races alot more tolerable. Made them so much more tolerable actually that the rule was revoked about a week later so we could get back to the neverending training and desyncing.

runlvlzero

10-26-2013, 06:50 AM

Best raid change, full pvp, ZERO CSR at level 50+

Also splorff is a secret agent sent to test the waters in a clandestine way to upcoming changes.

Splorf22

10-26-2013, 08:41 PM

This is EXACTLY what I do every single day on p99.

Let's be honest though: The A-Team doesn't do 50%+ of the high-end content.

Also I agree with Motec; I don't see why we should be recreating bugs and items that were later removed from the game.

Motec

10-27-2013, 07:50 AM

This is EXACTLY what I do every single day on p99.

What's stopping you?

Besides, its the flavor-of-the-month thought that the staff will launch a "perfect" server after current blue has run its course through Velious. It'd be pretty dumb to make a new server with Velious right now, on the reasoning that we'd be avoiding a bunch of bugs and exploits and questionable balance decisions, when Velious is bound to introduce all of those things back into the game because it hasn't undergone huge testing (i.e. years of actual use by the blue server). Be easy on the staff and if you're going to demand anything at all, demand repops while thanking them for a badass server, then do the stuff you claim to want to do for a couple more years until you finally get your new server.

Because testing bugs will be fairly ironed out in vel beta, because a LOT more people have first hand experience in velious. And a lot of IB guys just did a classic, true velious, and a LOT of IB guys have been feeding the devs logs, ideas, stats and information from mac for a true reproduction.

But the main thing to remember is velious brings with it a huge oppertunity of returning layers to beta, and a lot more informed playerbase, as such a huge amount of the community experienced all of velious from 35+ from the beginning. Not like kunark when only a handful of people here were 50's on Kunark launch.

But I think you are missing the point, which is predominantly that P1999 is poisoned, and full of cunts.

And I want a server thats legit PNP, and if you dont want to PNP, fuck off to shitsville stare at a wall 200hrs at 4+ raid spawns per week.

Motec

10-27-2013, 08:00 AM

Let's be honest though: The A-Team doesn't do 50%+ of the high-end content.

And lets remember, those things you guys do as the A team, I was doing with less people 18 months ago.

Credit to some of the amazing solo/duo work, but raiding/grouping those targets isnt what I want. I'm not plat rich anymore, but I dont need to nor feel the desire to farm needlessly.

A-team guys have a lot of fun, and reap the rewards of their efforts. But those rewards aren't the rewards the majority of the raiding community on P1999 want. The non raid community, cant break in to the raiding scene due to RL/commitment/whatever issues that preclude them from neckbearding it like the best of us.

And remember there is a shitload of people that burnt out or gave up on P1999, because of the poisoned, fucked and downright disgusting raid scene and attitudes of those of us in the top guilds (or public perception of such, or misinterpretation...the reasoning is irrelevent). How good would it be to have a server where all those people can have a shot? There would be hundreds of people who want to play, but dont want batphones and poopsocking. Why not give them an opportunity to experience what we experience, even if only 10% donate a little, that would cover the costs.

Set the rules up, and remove the ability to have all the bullshit items and overpowered crap and you immediately clean up a lot of the bullshit CSR nightmares and RMT.

People addicted to their pixels and being fuckwits on 99, wont leave those pixels. There are guys here with 30+ robe of the azure sky in guild...Those guys have waited years to get that shit and wont give it up. Others will, to escape the shitfight that is p1999 raiding.

Set very strong rules, enforce them with relentless, immediate and lasting consequences (char deletion, 50% xp loss, raiding suspensions) and weed out those who would flaunt or lawyer the rules. PNP > All, because frankly I'm sick of how it is and EQmac taught me again my love for EQ, in scheduling our raids and moving at our own pace (excepting later on stealing shit like seru which I never agreed with, but everyone else has also been doing seru for 8 years straight).