GMs deleting posts that criticise them

[slydexx]

Not busting balls but...
this is rants and flames and sometimes people are gonna bitch about the gms or their decisions, I think you need to let those threads stay.
No need to censor or delete things just because they are aimed at a GM, you guys are open to criticism from ingame actions or inaction as we players are.

[Tudana]

its their game, its their forums, its free...they can do what they want.

[chtulu]

unless one of them was Meatloaf.

Then they wouldn't do that.

[Toony]

Not busting balls but...
this is rants and flames and sometimes people are gonna bitch about the gms or their decisions, I think you need to let those threads stay.
No need to censor or delete things just because they are aimed at a GM, you guys are open to criticism from ingame actions or inaction as we players are.

You should ask for a refund and cancel your account.

[Rogean]

The reason we don't allow it are explained in the sticky. Flames against GM Actions would be extremely one-sided. A GM decision such as a mob dispute or a ban involves information gathered from many sources, not all of which the player base may be fully aware of. We will not be required to explain in fine detail the reasoning behind every action we do. We simply don't have the time on top of the things we already have to do to be explaining ourselves. We also have non-disclosure which means that we don't talk about player interactions outside the player involved and other staff members.

[Goobles]

This one's a classic.

http://theinsanityreport.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/shut-the-fuck-up.jpeg

[slydexx]

You should ask for a refund and cancel your account.

You lack the skills to make a witty reply

[slydexx]

Gooble i like the screenie where you report the dude, hahah who the fuck reports
Bitch!

[Loke]

The reason we don't allow it are explained in the sticky. Flames against GM Actions would be extremely one-sided. A GM decision such as a mob dispute or a ban involves information gathered from many sources, not all of which the player base may be fully aware of. We will not be required to explain in fine detail the reasoning behind every action we do. We simply don't have the time on top of the things we already have to do to be explaining ourselves. We also have non-disclosure which means that we don't talk about player interactions outside the player involved and other staff members.

I understand you don't want everyone out there questioning every call a GM makes - but in the event of suspensions and what not, are you saying that even the suspended player doesn't need to know why he was suspended? Seem that if you're going to ban/suspend someone from the server - they should be given a concrete reason as to why they were suspended so as to understand what they did that was wrong. I only ask because of some current bans in our guild (surprisingly - not all of which I disagree with!)

[Rogean]

I understand you don't want everyone out there questioning every call a GM makes - but in the event of suspensions and what not, are you saying that even the suspended player doesn't need to know why he was suspended? Seem that if you're going to ban/suspend someone from the server - they should be given a concrete reason as to why they were suspended so as to understand what they did that was wrong. I only ask because of some current bans in our guild (surprisingly - not all of which I disagree with!)

That's what the petition forum is for, not rants and flames as this thread has been discussing.

[darkblade717]

That's what the petition forum is for, not rants and flames as this thread has been discussing.

Posts in the petition forum almost never get answered from what I've seen, and sometimes not even read.

[Agaron]

Posts in the petition forum almost never get answered from what I've seen, and sometimes not even read.

Ding ding ding.

I still can't believe they nazi censored that shit.

[Toony]

Ding ding ding.

I still can't believe they nazi censored that shit.

Godwined

[Theldios]

Posts in the petition forum almost never get answered from what I've seen, and sometimes not even read.

/agree

[Aeolwind]

I defer to Goobles post as the general reply.

We dont work for you. Please direct all complaints to our customer service group. Their office is at the bottom of the lava pit in lavastorm. They see complainants from 9am to 905am on any day of the week that doesnt end in Y.

Thanks,
Mgmt

[nilbog]

Not busting balls but...
this is rants and flames and sometimes people are gonna bitch about the gms or their decisions, I think you need to let those threads stay.
No need to censor or delete things just because they are aimed at a GM, you guys are open to criticism from ingame actions or inaction as we players are.

If you do not agree with a GM decision, you can send me a message about it. Fuck no we don't have to be open to criticism from anything players have to say. It is my right to delete you or your words, the same as any other moderator.

This sums it up ->>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnkFYTSeT_U#t=8m40s

I understand you don't want everyone out there questioning every call a GM makes - but in the event of suspensions and what not, are you saying that even the suspended player doesn't need to know why he was suspended? Seem that if you're going to ban/suspend someone from the server - they should be given a concrete reason as to why they were suspended so as to understand what they did that was wrong. I only ask because of some current bans in our guild (surprisingly - not all of which I disagree with!)

Rogean answered this one, but I'll reiterate. You can make an appeal, or ask us questions about your account in petition/exploit portion of forum. No one is owed shit.

Posts in the petition forum almost never get answered from what I've seen, and sometimes not even read.

Says the guy who HAS been helped in the petition/forum portion of the boards while insulting our "system". Nice one .

See my post count? Think that all comes from the Bugs forum? It's from helping usually ungrateful idiots.


So let's go over this again.

Have a problem or question with your suspension/ban? ----> petition/exploit forums.

Have a problem with the GM who suspended/banned you? ----> petition/exploit OR private message to me.

And, last but not least... players do not tell GMs what to do. You must be used to playing WoW or some shit that you pay for. We don't give a fuck what you think. If you start a war with the staff, you WILL lose.

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/2945/1277014406290.gif

[Shannacore]

bahahah @ that gif

[girth]

bahahah @ that gif

Don't act like you aren't wanking it right now to that.

[Shannacore]

Don't act like you aren't wanking it right now to that.

:eek:

WUT

[Straif]

...We dont work for you....

End of Discussion... Free Server run by people busting ass to make it happen.

[Brund the Decrepit]

The funny thing is...
That is Nilborg and Rogean in that gif.
Not only can they take away your internets, they can also rip your arms off and beat you to death with them.

[darkblade717]

If you do not agree with a GM decision, you can send me a message about it. Fuck no we don't have to be open to criticism from anything players have to say. It is my right to delete you or your words, the same as any other moderator.

This sums it up ->>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnkFYTSeT_U#t=8m40s



Rogean answered this one, but I'll reiterate. You can make an appeal, or ask us questions about your account in petition/exploit portion of forum. No one is owed shit.



Says the guy who HAS been helped in the petition/forum portion of the boards while insulting our "system". Nice one .

See my post count? Think that all comes from the Bugs forum? It's from helping usually ungrateful idiots.


So let's go over this again.

Have a problem or question with your suspension/ban? ----> petition/exploit forums.

Have a problem with the GM who suspended/banned you? ----> petition/exploit OR private message to me.

And, last but not least... players do not tell GMs what to do. You must be used to playing WoW or some shit that you pay for. We don't give a fuck what you think. If you start a war with the staff, you WILL lose.

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/2945/1277014406290.gif


From what I'm seeing, you responded to my IP exemption request (which I AM grateful for, even though we kinda stopped playing because of the lack of disciplinary action). The other issues (training, quest items being eaten, etc) remain unacknowledged and unread, so you can get off your high horse at any time.

You keep saying you don't get paid and don't have to listen to us yadda yadda yadda...but in doing so you're just letting probably the greatest EQ Emulator server ever created to go down the toilet with letting people run rampant in game, but censoring the people who bring up the lack of discipline or the problems on the forums. You're letting all your effort go to waste when you could just suspend the bad apples that are making people pissed off for a few days until you do manage to gather all the facts. Hell, suspend them for 48 hours, at least then people would shut up about you guys seemingly not doing anything, and quiet the favoritism bullshit.

[nilbog]

The server is just fine.

Its the fucking players that ruin it. Just like planet earth.

Ultimately, players assume they know everything. They don't.

We don't announce worldwide suspensions or bans for the 45kish characters we have in the accounts table. Does this resonate with you? We don't get paid, and ultimately I will spend my time developing content. If you expect us to read random rants and flames about what you *think* is wrong, when there is no petition, then it will continue to go unanswered. I have better things to do than try and find out the truth. Bring it to me with evidence.

you're just letting probably the greatest EQ Emulator server ever created to go down the toilet

Sorry you feel this way. We don't.

You're letting all your effort go to waste

Sorry you feel this way. We don't.

[JackFlash]

It's posts like this that make me never want to visit the forums again.....

/agree nilbog

[Phallax]

I know they discipline people, I personally witnessed it last night.

Reported a boxer, in game and via PMs to nilbog and rogean via IRC 10 mins later didnt see either of the 2 people I thought were boxing on, still havnt seen either of them on since.

So disciplinary action does happen, just because they dont keep a public log of it doesnt mean it doesnt happen.

[Phallax]

I know they discipline people, I personally witnessed it last night.

Reported a boxer, in game and via PMs to nilbog and rogean via IRC 10 mins later didnt see either of the 2 people I thought were boxing on, still havnt seen either of them on since.

So disciplinary action does happen, just because they dont keep a public log of it doesnt mean it doesnt happen.

Oh and this was a pretty well known player as well, so throw favorism out the window.

[Feiel]

Don't act like you aren't wanking it right now to that.

I think it would be considered "flicking the bean".

It's posts like this that make me never want to visit the forums again.....

Thats why I generally don't go though the R&F Forum often.

[Dantes]

I have always found that bans and suspensions are easier said than done.

[Aeolwind]

If you inquire regatding someone elses punishment, yes you will be ignored. At best youll get a resolved reply.

If you want to know more, ask the player involved.

[Aeolwind]

If you are looking for rough numbers, id say close to 300 accounts have had the axe. And id say at least 300 of those have created new accounts. These are perm bans and not temp bans and dont include mq bans.

Prob double that for name changes alone, and around the same number of suspensions.

This doesnt include players i drop off cliffs or summon under lava for being general jerks

[fohkure]

be honest... it was my flower picture that made you delete it wasn't it?

[Kelven]

I think the forums require a new section called: If you think the world revolves around you, post here.

Inside, new posts are automatically deleted 30 seconds after being posted, because that's where this belongs.

[Lazortag]

So far very little evidence has been provided that meaningful posts in the petitions/exploits forum are "unread" and "unacknowledged". There is a pretty transparent system for seeing if GM's respond to posts (a) reporting players that commit offenses and (b) disputing bans/suspensions etc., because you can see how many views a post has gotten. As was said, proving you were trained, getting some views on your petition but no responses doesn't mean that the GM's did nothing about it - it just means the GM's don't have the need or the time to disclose someone else's punishment.

The thing is, Everquest is a pretty addictive game and for most players, not being able to play for a whole day is like the end of the world, so they make posts whining about how it takes "forever" to get their issues resolved when the staff is so ridiculously overburdened with shit already. The staff has already said that they like to deal with issues in a triage-like manner: the most important/easiest stuff ideally gets resolved first, with updates/bug corrections coming second, and then if there's time to acknowledge your request to know if someone who trained you was banned or if your last name can be changed, they might help you out, but don't count on it happening within a short amount of time.

While I don't like the facile responses from GM's about how it's their server and they can do what they want (which is trivially true and not really addressing the real issue - of whether it's okay to censor criticism, especially considering the time it must take to delete all critical posts), I think that most people here are either overreacting or need to provide more evidence for their claims. The server is fine. I've gotten screwed a few times, I've bitched about it (that's what guilds/moms are for), but I still can't genuinely say that I have any significant problems with the server.

TLDR: people, quit whining and learn to use "evidence"; GM's, it looks bad when you censor criticism rather than engaging with it.

[Rogean]

GM's, it looks bad when you censor criticism rather than engaging with it.

And it looks even worse when we can't defend ourselves due to non-disclosure.

[Lazortag]

And it looks even worse when we can't defend ourselves due to non-disclosure.

Oh, I do sympathize with that, but I think you can just say that a particular decision was motivated by facts that you aren't willing to disclose, rather than deleting the posts in question.

[Appollo]

So far very little evidence has been provided that meaningful posts in the petitions/exploits forum are "unread" and "unacknowledged". There is a pretty transparent system for seeing if GM's respond to posts (a) reporting players that commit offenses and (b) disputing bans/suspensions etc., because you can see how many views a post has gotten. As was said, proving you were trained, getting some views on your petition but no responses doesn't mean that the GM's did nothing about it - it just means the GM's don't have the need or the time to disclose someone else's punishment.

The thing is, Everquest is a pretty addictive game and for most players, not being able to play for a whole day is like the end of the world, so they make posts whining about how it takes "forever" to get their issues resolved when the staff is so ridiculously overburdened with shit already. The staff has already said that they like to deal with issues in a triage-like manner: the most important/easiest stuff ideally gets resolved first, with updates/bug corrections coming second, and then if there's time to acknowledge your request to know if someone who trained you was banned or if your last name can be changed, they might help you out, but don't count on it happening within a short amount of time.

While I don't like the facile responses from GM's about how it's their server and they can do what they want (which is trivially true and not really addressing the real issue - of whether it's okay to censor criticism, especially considering the time it must take to delete all critical posts), I think that most people here are either overreacting or need to provide more evidence for their claims. The server is fine. I've gotten screwed a few times, I've bitched about it (that's what guilds/moms are for), but I still can't genuinely say that I have any significant problems with the server.

TLDR: people, quit whining and learn to use "evidence"; GM's, it looks bad when you censor criticism rather than engaging with it.

I appreciate a well thought out and intelligent post. Furthermore, you even added a TLDR line. I'm not that considerate, so props to you, my friend.

I believe the portion I bolded sums up what I've experienced. It's amazing how this stuff works: if your claim is supported by sufficient evidence, action can be taken. If your claim is based upon conjecture and hearsay, action will not be taken.

[Bardzilla]

The server is just fine.

Its the fucking players that ruin it. Just like planet earth.

Ultimately, players assume they know everything. They don't.

We don't announce worldwide suspensions or bans for the 45kish characters we have in the accounts table. Does this resonate with you? We don't get paid, and ultimately I will spend my time developing content. If you expect us to read random rants and flames about what you *think* is wrong, when there is no petition, then it will continue to go unanswered. I have better things to do than try and find out the truth. Bring it to me with evidence.



Sorry you feel this way. We don't.



Sorry you feel this way. We don't.

Thanks for everything you do for us. And thank you more for your position on this and several other issues. The one thing I hated most of all about 'that game that shall not be mentioned' was the feeling that if you got enough people to rally behind a cause, they would make the change/nerf, be it in the true benefit of players is argueable. The player base has no business making "the rules/mechanics", thats like giving the wolves a key to the hen house. You have set your vision, and have at least for my brief time here been consistent with that vision. Its not perfect, but the one thing EQ never was, was perfect.

[Insedeel]

This doesnt include players i drop off cliffs or summon under lava for being general jerks

HAHA! Epic... You should make an event of it sometime, have a list of people that have been major jerks, and have an execution per say over the lava pit in LS for those on the list that are online at the time. I'll bring the popcorn!

[Aeolwind]

HAHA! Epic... You should make an event of it sometime, have a list of people that have been major jerks, and have an execution per say over the lava pit in LS for those on the list that are online at the time. I'll bring the popcorn!

I have that list already =o. Nilbog would stroke however. That or bring beer, not sure which. Would depend on the list I think. :(

[Nocte]

And it looks even worse when we can't defend ourselves due to non-disclosure.

"Your issue(s) is/isn't being fixed/resolved. We cannot disclose full details regarding our actions toward your petition, but we have received it and have/haven't taken action accordingly."

The above phrase would go a long way, I think. Obviously, it'd have to be tailored to whatever the petition is about, but just something that says "I got it. I understand what's going on," might make players feel less ignored.

Hell, if you want a forum-relations person to do this for you, consider this my offer to volunteer my time towards this.

[astarothel]

I have that list already =o. Nilbog would stroke however. That or bring beer, not sure which. Would depend on the list I think. :(

I can see the conversation now in my head -

Nilbog: "You have 99.9875% of the server on this list!!!!"
Aeolwind: "Shit I must have missed a couple people..."

[Aeolwind]

"Your issue(s) is/isn't being fixed/resolved. We cannot disclose full details regarding our actions toward your petition, but we have received it and have/haven't taken action accordingly."

The above phrase would go a long way, I think. Obviously, it'd have to be tailored to whatever the petition is about, but just something that says "I got it. I understand what's going on," might make players feel less ignored.

Hell, if you want a forum-relations person to do this for you, consider this my offer to volunteer my time towards this.

You are far too cheerful and no where near jaded enough for this job. Sorry.

[Aeolwind]

I can see the conversation now in my head -

Nilbog: "You have 99.9875% of the server on this list!!!!"
Aeolwind: "Shit I must have missed a couple people..."

Nilbog: "You have 99.9875% of the server on this list!!!!"
Aeolwind: "Shit I must have missed a couple people..."
Nilbog: "Anyones name starting with "I"?"
Aeolwind: "Yeah, someone pissed me off from that range and I don't remember who."
Nilbog: "Anyone born AFTER 1985?"
Aeolwind: "Yeah, they don't remember Reagan. Fuck'em."
Nilbog: "Seriously, you need counseling."
Aeolwind: "Probably."

[Aeolwind]

"Your issue(s) is/isn't being fixed/resolved. We cannot disclose full details regarding our actions toward your petition, but we have received it and have/haven't taken action accordingly."

The above phrase would go a long way, I think. Obviously, it'd have to be tailored to whatever the petition is about, but just something that says "I got it. I understand what's going on," might make players feel less ignored.

Hell, if you want a forum-relations person to do this for you, consider this my offer to volunteer my time towards this.

2 Things to remember here:

1) We don't really care if it satiates your curiosity.
2) It just opens us up to more shit.

We DO listen to bug reports/issues. We DON'T listen to drama whores & vagabond jackasses that can't go a day without training, exploiting or crashing each other.

We DO listen to Bob who thinks he found a broken quest. We DON'T help Bob if his quest isn't actually broken.

We DO try to help folks out that die to bugs. We DON'T assume you're telling the truth.

We DO try to kibosh trainers, spammers and general douche bags. We DON'T do so without proof. Fraps people, even free gets you a 30 sec video.

Knowing the insane amount of drama that we generally put up with on a daily basis is not going to do you one bit of good.

[mmiles8]

just something that says "..." might make players feel less ignored.

A_Whiny_Player_77123 "HAY, QQQ QQQ, Q QQQQ QQQQ QQQ Q QQQQ Q QQQ QQQQQQ. Q QQQQ QQQQQ QQQ QQQ QQQQQQQ QQQQ QQQ QQQ QQQQQQQ QQQQQQQ QQ!"
A_Burly_GM_01 "And how does that make you feel?"
A_Whiny_Player_77123 "WELL..."
A_Burly_GM_01 "IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW YOU FEEL!"

[Nocte]

You are far too cheerful and no where near jaded enough for this job. Sorry.

I work retail. I've put up with 10+ years of people and their cell phone problems. I'm a forum moderator for another site of another hobby I'm involved with, and deal with loads of forum drama that spills over from our RL meetups/games. There's real money involved in that drama, and frankly, this site is pretty tame compared to either wireless retail or the other site I help out with.

I'm plenty jaded, I just don't see the need to celebrate and gloat over the magnitude of how dickish I can be. If that's a requirement to be on the staff, then I guess I withdraw my offer.

It has nothing to do with player curiosity, and more to do with courtesy and perhaps lessening the existence of threads that criticize the devs/GMs. Just because you don't owe the players any courtesy doesn't mean you wouldn't get anything out of showing some.

[darkblade717]

The server is just fine.

Its the fucking players that ruin it. Just like planet earth.

Ultimately, players assume they know everything. They don't.

We don't announce worldwide suspensions or bans for the 45kish characters we have in the accounts table. Does this resonate with you? We don't get paid, and ultimately I will spend my time developing content. If you expect us to read random rants and flames about what you *think* is wrong, when there is no petition, then it will continue to go unanswered. I have better things to do than try and find out the truth. Bring it to me with evidence.



Sorry you feel this way. We don't.



Sorry you feel this way. We don't.

Whenever I DO actually /petition in game, Cyrius answers it and just tells me to 'go post it on the boards', so I just defaulted to doing that as I thought that was the standard procedure.

You would think when an entire group petitions someone in game, and posts in the Exploit section, AND includes dates, times, and where we were it wouldn't be that hard to figure it out. We shouldn't have to have Fraps running constantly just to feel like there's some sort of justice being had.

I've got screenshots of someone in Wrathful Inquisition (Smakyn) straight out telling me that he and his friends have been petitioned a ton of times, yet there are no consequences because their guild leader is on the dev team, so you can't really tell me there's no favoritism going on.

In regards to 'having evidence'...take 2 minutes to check your logs. Dude hits X mob, other dude hits X mob, dude A gets the kill, dude b aggros several mobs, runs to X location, uses Feign Death, players X, Y, Z, Q are killed, dude b gets up, runs away. It's kinda difficult to take screenshots of being trained when you are either A) dead from said train, B) too concerned with getting away from said train, or C) trying to LoS caster mobs so you can FD.

[darkblade717]

2 Things to remember here:

1) We don't really care if it satiates your curiosity.
2) It just opens us up to more shit.

We DO listen to bug reports/issues. We DON'T listen to drama whores & vagabond jackasses that can't go a day without training, exploiting or crashing each other.

We DO listen to Bob who thinks he found a broken quest. We DON'T help Bob if his quest isn't actually broken.

We DO try to help folks out that die to bugs. We DON'T assume you're telling the truth.

We DO try to kibosh trainers, spammers and general douche bags. We DON'T do so without proof. Fraps people, even free gets you a 30 sec video.

Knowing the insane amount of drama that we generally put up with on a daily basis is not going to do you one bit of good.

Sony did it without Fraps. Fuck, Sony did it without anyone on their staff having an IQ over 90! 30 seconds is a 'whole lot of video' when you're trying to avoid the train. Most people don't even realize what happened until it's all over, and by then a video is kinda useless. It IS your job to enforce the server rules. If people have multiple offenses of being asshats in game, why even let them continue playing?

[Agaron]

^ Why is your dick so small? It's a game bro. If you don't like it... simple... uninstall it.

[Abacabb]

Lol, the same people crying about getting trained in EQ are the same people that cry because they get tactical nuked in CoD:MW2 because they can't handle gun-runners.

[Lazortag]

Sony did it without Fraps. Fuck, Sony did it without anyone on their staff having an IQ over 90! 30 seconds is a 'whole lot of video' when you're trying to avoid the train. Most people don't even realize what happened until it's all over, and by then a video is kinda useless. It IS your job to enforce the server rules. If people have multiple offenses of being asshats in game, why even let them continue playing?

This has been dealt with before. Sony banned people who were innocent because it was easy to forge evidence against them. Also, to act like Sony enforced the rules against trainers all the time is just laughable - I was in highpass and had a monk FD train me twice and brag about it to the entire zone back in 2001, and there was no justice for him, despite all of the evidence against him (screenshots, his /shout that he trained some poor lowbie, the dozen or so people who read that /shout, etc.) I honestly forget what the GM's response was when I petitioned it (I believe it was something to the effect of intentional training actually not being against the rules (which, if true, is just dumb) but the GM may have just told me that I didn't have enough proof).

[Uaellaen]

My favorite Sony GM response: "Works as intended" (TM)

[Bumamgar]

I've got screenshots of someone in Wrathful Inquisition (Smakyn) straight out telling me that he and his friends have been petitioned a ton of times, yet there are no consequences because their guild leader is on the dev team, so you can't really tell me there's no favoritism going on.
a) I'm not aware of any complaints against Smakyn doing anything wrong, either as his guild leader or as a dev
b) Try contacting an officer in WI or myself next time you have a problem with a member of WI
c) I'm not aware of any devs/GMs ignoring any complaints against any member of WI, in fact, if anything, we're under more scrutiny than everyone else precisely because I'm a dev

That said, proof or it didn't happen. I take a harsh view of any member of WI doing anything against server policy. I devote a significant portion of my time to this server, both as the leader of a guild and as a dev, and I have no tolerance for people who break the server rules. I also have no time for idiots who post "complaints" in RnF without attempting to resolve the issue via proper channels, and who make accusations against my guild or it's members without any sort of details or proof.

[Loke]

Bum, every interaction I've had with you and everything I've heard leads me to believe that you're a good guy and a competent guild leader. That being said, I find it hard to believe you don't know about at least a few minor violations of server policy within your guild when even I do.

Now before you get offended - there isn't a guild on this server that doesn't have a member or two break a rule from time to time. I know if members of DA, IB, WI, hell, even Remedy that have broken rules (not Divinity just because I don't think I've ever had more than a few words in passing with anyone from that guild - but I'd be willing to be it even happens within their ranks). Guilds are going to have members who do dumb stuff - to pretend that it doesn't happen is silly and to claim you don't know about it means you're either blind, incompentent or a liar.

What is important is that it is handled. I'm not saying that every member that breaks a rule needs to get reported and banned - I think that is silly as well. But it is just as much the job of the players to police their own as it is of the GM's to enforce the server rules. I think every GM here would agree that if a minor server violation can be handled in house and reduce their work load, that it is perfectly acceptable to do so.

It's just like in real life, if a kid shop lifts or your buddy gets drunk and decides to knock over a park bench or something - you don't call the cops, but you let them know that they're dumb and that their behavior is unacceptable.

Basically I think you run a tight ship, and I don't agree with people coming here and calling you out over some random member as opposed to handling stuff in game - I guess this isn't even directed towards you all that much even, it's more just a rant about how no guild is comprised of 100% upstanding rule abiding members - it's just the way things work. For people to pretend that their guild is this spotless shining beacon of honesty and fair play while calling someone else out is just ridiculous.

Ok, it's really hot in this classroom and I can't remember where I was going with this so done~

[darkblade717]

Lol, the same people crying about getting trained in EQ are the same people that cry because they get tactical nuked in CoD:MW2 because they can't handle gun-runners.

What was that? I'm a little rusty on my retard-speak so you're going to have to get someone to type that again for you.

[Bumamgar]

Loke: I never claimed my guild members were all saints.

What I said was that I am not aware of any specific issue with Smakyn, and that the proper way to deal with an issue, if it exists, is to contact the leadership of WI (in game, via our forum, via this forum, etc).

I also stated that when presented with a verifiable complaint against one of my members, I take a zero tolerance stance. I have always been a "no drama" kind of guy, and if a member of WI is causing drama, they won't be a member for long. This has nothing to do with my dev status, it's just how I run my guild.

I do not, however, blindly believe every complaint raised against my members. WI has always been an active raiding guild and as such we are often the target of grief, both in game and on forums. We're not saints, we're mostly ego driven competitive players, and as such, we're likely to piss people off from time to time. As long as we're operating within the rules, that's fine, and I will defend the actions of my guildmembers. My point being, I don't just arbitrarily boot people from WI because someone else claims they did something. However, I do not stand for members of WI acting against the rules of the server, so verifiable claims of exploiting, griefing etc. will be dealt with harshly, generally with /guildremoval, and if the situation warrants it, a request to the GMs for a suspension or ban.

Frankly, if anything, being in WI means that a person is going to be subjected to a higher standard than a normal guild because I have both the interests of my guild, and the interests of the server, at heart, and will react harshly to any member who goes against those interests.

[Agaron]

GM's shouldn't be able to play a standard toon period, yet alone run a raiding guild imo. Problem solved.

[Ihealyou]

I'm pretty sure Bumamgar is just a dev. He doesn't have any GM powers.

[nilbog]

I'm pretty sure Bumamgar is just a dev. He doesn't have any GM powers.

You are correct, and he's a source developer at that. Not content.

I wish people knew the differences in GMs, developers, source developers and content developers.

[Autotune]

GM's shouldn't be able to play a standard toon period, yet alone run a raiding guild imo. Problem solved.

lol, you're an idiot. Sadly your problem will never be solved.

[Aeolwind]

GM's shouldn't be able to play a standard toon period, yet alone run a raiding guild imo. Problem solved.

Keep in mind, I don't play on the server. There are too many retards, I'm too inclined to log in my GM toon and disintegrate people.

Absolutely. Brilliant. I'm going to develop this awesome project and never get to enjoy it. That is an AWESOME idea.

Go play in traffic.

[darkblade717]

You are correct, and he's a source developer at that. Not content.

I wish people knew the differences in GMs, developers, source developers and content developers.

Perhaps defining the differences might help?

Keep in mind, I don't play on the server. There are too many retards, I'm too inclined to log in my GM toon and disintegrate people.

Absolutely. Brilliant. I'm going to develop this awesome project and never get to enjoy it. That is an AWESOME idea.

Go play in traffic.

Love the attitudes coming from the staff here, it's a fucking wonder how any of you function in the real world.

[Loke]

I just want to note that I wasn't implying that there was any problem with Bum being both a guild leader and a developer. In fact, I am all for those capable in the player base to take an active role in assisting this project. As far as Guides and GMs having play characters - I trust Nilbog and Rogean to ensure that there are no issues within their GM and Guide ranks.

[Autotune]

Perhaps defining the differences might help?



Love the attitudes coming from the staff here, it's a fucking wonder how any of you function in the real world.

b/c you are ignorant you want someone else to teach you some definitions?

okay.

I'll give you a hint... It's called the Google Machine, it helps ignorant nerd-ragers like yourself seem slightly smarter.

here i'll help you get started.

The Google Machine (http://www.google.com/)

now just click that blue text(words) and it will take you to a special place where you can enter more text(words) and then just click the magical Search button. It will show you all kinds of new and exciting worlds.

[Abacabb]

Perhaps defining the differences might help?



Love the attitudes coming from the staff here, it's a fucking wonder how any of you function in the real world.

Lol they dont... They work in IT fields specifically to avoid the real world, cause cyber love is the anti-man.

[Aeolwind]

b/c you are ignorant you want someone else to teach you some definitions?

okay.

I'll give you a hint... It's called the Google Machine, it helps ignorant nerd-ragers like yourself seem slightly smarter.

here i'll help you get started.

The Google Machine (http://www.google.com/)

now just click that blue text(words) and it will take you to a special place where you can enter more text(words) and then just click the magical Search button. It will show you all kinds of new and exciting worlds.

I like you.

[Uaellaen]

I like you.

^^^this

[darkblade717]

Lol they dont... They work in IT fields specifically to avoid the real world, cause cyber love is the anti-man.

I've seen some people that work in IT...they're...a 'special' breed.

[Derpus]

this is p normal for the internet as a whole and humans in general. we always, if possible, avoid explaining ourselves and accounting for our actions. those who cannot dissemble cannot rule. we cant stop it any more then we can stop eating or crapping. be glad its volunteer staff for a free video game. if i were in thier place i'd have a universal "ban on a whim" rule.

[Autotune]

I like you.

I like you too.

[slydexx]

I like you too.

I like you liking him

[Swiftsong_Lorekeeper]

If you do not agree with a GM decision, you can send me a message about it. Fuck no we don't have to be open to criticism from anything players have to say. It is my right to delete you or your words, the same as any other moderator.

This sums it up ->>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnkFYTSeT_U#t=8m40s

Rogean answered this one, but I'll reiterate. You can make an appeal, or ask us questions about your account in petition/exploit portion of forum. No one is owed shit.[/CENTER]

I think the key thing that most people (not all) but most people on this thread are missing is that the dev team (all staff inclusive) are all volunteers. This server is obviously free to play so if you don't like it then quit. Go make your own fucking server. It's one of those freedoms you retards have, in case you didn't know. If you want to bitch and complain, go play on live where you're paying someone to listen to you bitch. Otherwise you will have to learn to deal with what this server offers. These people all have real lives aside from p99 so deal with it. I think the youtube link definately "sums it up" as nilbog mentioned. Oh and when you do make your own server, let me know how dealing with the amount of complaints you get when you have 900+ players during peak hours works for you.

[Loke]

Ok, I agree that I appreciate what the Devs and GMs do here and that they're providing us all with a wonderful server free of charge...

With that being said, this go to "If you don't like it, quit" response every falls back on is ridiculous. I view the server much like I view my country. I like it, I think it's super - but I understand that it's not perfect. Could it be better? Absolutely. It is because I care about my country [the server] that I bring up issues of concern. It isn't because anyone here is ungrateful (well maybe a few people are).. it is because they are members of the community and are honestly trying to make it better.

Obviously not everyone is like that - some people don't care and are just trolls; but to tell every person who has a complaint or suggest or whatever that they should just leave is counter productive to the community.

Let me emphasis this for anyone who has doubt: NO ONE HERE IS OVERLOOKING THE FACT THAT THE DEVS AND GMS ARE PROVIDING THIS SERVER AND THEIR TIME AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE... WE'RE ALL EXTREMELY GRATEFUL. That doesn't mean however that we won't raise issues in an attempt to make something great, even better.

[Swiftsong_Lorekeeper]

Ok, I agree that I appreciate what the Devs and GMs do here and that they're providing us all with a wonderful server free of charge...

With that being said, this go to "If you don't like it, quit" response every falls back on is ridiculous. I view the server much like I view my country. I like it, I think it's super - but I understand that it's not perfect. Could it be better? Absolutely. It is because I care about my country [the server] that I bring up issues of concern. It isn't because anyone here is ungrateful (well maybe a few people are).. it is because they are members of the community and are honestly trying to make it better.

Obviously not everyone is like that - some people don't care and are just trolls; but to tell every person who has a complaint or suggest or whatever that they should just leave is counter productive to the community.

Let me emphasis this for anyone who has doubt: NO ONE HERE IS OVERLOOKING THE FACT THAT THE DEVS AND GMS ARE PROVIDING THIS SERVER AND THEIR TIME AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE... WE'RE ALL EXTREMELY GRATEFUL. That doesn't mean however that we won't raise issues in an attempt to make something great, even better.

I agree with and understand the people that have legit complaints, bug reports, etc. I'm not arguing with that at all. I also believe that the legit reports have their place and they make the game better. I'm referring to all the people that troll the forums. I don't think that everybody that has a LEGIT complaint should quit, however those people that attack the GMs/developers are the ones that should quit. If they are absolutely just not happy with something what is the point in continuing? For all the people that get their accounts suspended/banned, they were obviously doing something wrong and they just want to make sure that the dev team actually knew what was going on. Either that or just flat out lie and say they weren't. The staff is busy working on other productive things and should'nt have to answer every single retarded post, especially when its been visited, revisited, and on and on and on on the forums already. Attacking a volunteer staff is pointless and will lead you nowhere, especially when that volunteer runs whatever service you're using. When you look at the amount of posts that the volunteer staff has responded to, it's obvious that they don't sit around on their ass the whole time. They are working on their own time (after they get off of their real job) to fix bugs, answer petitions, work on kunark, etc. So moral of the story is (IMO) leave them alone and quit bothering them with shit that doesn't matter. If someones post was deleted, there was probably a good reason for it.

--I know that would be in a perfect world, which we do not live in. I was in the navy and worked as a LAN administrator and quickly learned that there are definately retards in this world and that all users are demons sent to this world test my patience.--

[Nen]

From what I'm seeing, you responded to my IP exemption request (which I AM grateful for, even though we kinda stopped playing because of the lack of disciplinary action). The other issues (training, quest items being eaten, etc) remain unacknowledged and unread, so you can get off your high horse at any time.

You keep saying you don't get paid and don't have to listen to us yadda yadda yadda...but in doing so you're just letting probably the greatest EQ Emulator server ever created to go down the toilet with letting people run rampant in game, but censoring the people who bring up the lack of discipline or the problems on the forums. You're letting all your effort go to waste when you could just suspend the bad apples that are making people pissed off for a few days until you do manage to gather all the facts. Hell, suspend them for 48 hours, at least then people would shut up about you guys seemingly not doing anything, and quiet the favoritism bullshit.

Shut up you ungrateful idiot. It's a free fucking server and it's by far the best that has ever come around. If you don't like it go somewhere else, asshole.

[Agaron]

Lol they dont... They work in IT fields specifically to avoid the real world, cause cyber love is the anti-man.

Haha. So true.

[Bones]

Shut up you ungrateful idiot. It's a free fucking server and it's by far the best that has ever come around. If you don't like it go somewhere else, asshole.
^

[Rolfcam]

GMs will be the end of this server.

Even GMs getting paid managed to screw it up, so there is no hope here either.

Corruption will prevail!

[Autotune]

GMs will be the end of this server.

Even GMs getting paid managed to screw it up, so there is no hope here either.

Corruption will prevail!

/start translation " My butt is sore and it's my fault. However, I want to blame it on something else b/c nothing is ever really my fault. I don't have faults after all, because my mommy tells me i'm perfect and that i'm so special. Please someone listen to me on here, I know I'm right and you're wrong. "

p.s. " PLEASE BELIEVE ME!!! "

/end translation

had to help you there, i'm not sure many people would have been able to understand what you were talking about.

[Rolfcam]

/start translation " My butt is sore and it's my fault. However, I want to blame it on something else b/c nothing is ever really my fault. I don't have faults after all, because my mommy tells me i'm perfect and that i'm so special. Please someone listen to me on here, I know I'm right and you're wrong. "

p.s. " PLEASE BELIEVE ME!!! "

/end translation

had to help you there, i'm not sure many people would have been able to understand what you were talking about.

What the fuck are you talking about?

/start translation

"I'm a dumb ass low level n00b who has no clue, so I just type some junk to suck some GM ass. Look at me, please someone gimme 5 plat, I know I'm good and you're bad"

p.s. PLEASE GIMME 5 PLAT

/end translation

[Gorgetrapper]

No use in responding to the troll account. Just ignore him.

[Autotune]

No use in responding to the troll account. Just ignore him.

but I like watching them nerd-rage. :D

[Aadill]

but I like watching them nerd-rage. :D

I'm not sure you are aware of how trolls work

[Messianic]

I'm not sure you are aware of how trolls work

Inconceivable!

[darkblade717]

Shut up you ungrateful idiot. It's a free fucking server and it's by far the best that has ever come around. If you don't like it go somewhere else, asshole.

Lol? Keep sucking that GM dick! Maybe they'll let you be the first one to get the Seb Juggernaut illusion when Kunark comes out!

[Autotune]

I'm not sure you are aware of how trolls work

oh i know how they work lol, and it seems i hit a nerve on the troll. He tried to flame me hard.

I mean what kind of troll responds like this...

What the fuck are you talking about?

/start translation

"I'm a dumb ass low level n00b who has no clue, so I just type some junk to suck some GM ass. Look at me, please someone gimme 5 plat, I know I'm good and you're bad"

p.s. PLEASE GIMME 5 PLAT

/end translation

man, he really talked bad about my virtual character /wrists... lol

[Messianic]

Some of these people need naps...

[Taluvill]

Lol? Keep sucking that GM dick! Maybe they'll let you be the first one to get the Seb Juggernaut illusion when Kunark comes out!

You really are one sad, strange little man.

If you dont agree with the gm's here, dont play here. Its not hard.

For everyone else: If you dont agree with decisions, there are multiple servers on the list that Rogean has provided for us to choose from... FOR FREE. So go have fun, but stop shitting up our server.

2 things to close: Autotune(i think it was you, apologies if im wrong, too tired to look = P ) nice google machine = )

And I want Rogean to go and put the Ocean of Tears thing as the clickie text to enter rants and flames. Heh.

oh shit, PSS: Gm's dont have to answer to shit. Go pay sony for some indian dude to listen to you whine. This is free, which, in other words means, really not here to fucking cater to 12 y/o.
Thats all.

[Taluvill]

oh shit.

PSSS: Just watched Shutter island, its a really good movie. Leo is a good actor

[Brund the Decrepit]

Some of these people need naps...

I like naps..

[heyokah]

PSSS: Just watched Shutter island, its a really good movie. Leo is a good actor

Leo is indeed a good actor, but the movie was mediocre at best, you can see the "twist " coming a mile away.

[Autotune]

You really are one sad, strange little man.

If you dont agree with the gm's here, dont play here. Its not hard.

For everyone else: If you dont agree with decisions, there are multiple servers on the list that Rogean has provided for us to choose from... FOR FREE. So go have fun, but stop shitting up our server.

2 things to close: Autotune(i think it was you, apologies if im wrong, too tired to look = P ) nice google machine = )

And I want Rogean to go and put the Ocean of Tears thing as the clickie text to enter rants and flames. Heh.

oh shit, PSS: Gm's dont have to answer to shit. Go pay sony for some indian dude to listen to you whine. This is free, which, in other words means, really not here to fucking cater to 12 y/o.
Thats all.

Agreed.

and thanks, it was me lol.

[Froshpra]

If you have something to say, say it 2 my face. U gotta get by me first if U wanna troll the Game Masters.

[Nen]

Lol? Keep sucking that GM dick! Maybe they'll let you be the first one to get the Seb Juggernaut illusion when Kunark comes out!

Is that how it works? I think you're a friggin idiot and therefore *I* am a "GM dick sucker"? Great argument there.

Yeah, no -- you're actually a fucking moron, regardless of whether or not I'm an ass kisser. You are a sanctimonious little girl that attempts to poison the enjoyment of the game for other players because you feel the GMs haven't assisted you nearly enough with your petitions. Tough shit, asshole.

Don't like it? Leave, attention starved nitwit.

[Froshpra]

Nen for Server President