A question to everyone not in TMO/IB.....

[Bantam 1]

There are a lot of intelligent adults out there posting (in a few threads I read). So a thought popped in my mind.... what are all your true priorities in terms of end game? Do any of your guilds have people who could actually raid if given the chance?


Why doesn't each guild who really wants the end game to open up dedicate a group of their more hardcore types and create an alliance of sorts....

And just beat TMO at their own game? or IB or whoever? Anyone who has raided knows as soon as the winds turn a little.... shit goes down.

Instead of arguing about rules... how about fighting back? Nothing they can do can't be done by you.


TDLR - create a massive alliance zerg and start taking raid mobs. TMO trains you? Train them back... they train you harder? You guys have intelligent folks....fight back.

[Nietche]

I endorse this message for the sake of competition.

[Vianna]

I endorse this message for the sake of competition.

You endorse chaos and even more problems then. We have enough people hating each other on this server already.

[Nietche]

You endorse chaos and even more problems then. We have enough people hating each other on this server already.

Competition, by corollary, does not beget hate. What planet are you from?

[Widan]

And just beat TMO at their own game?

You mean sacrificing real life for everquest? Most people would prefer not to do that.

[Vianna]

Competition, by corollary, does not beget hate. What planet are you from?

Earth unlike you it seems.

[Bantam 1]

You endorse chaos and even more problems then. We have enough people hating each other on this server already.

How is my idea chaos? or even hate?

I'm talking join forces and give them real competition...you bring enough folks... you can dedicate many folks to just clearing trash/trains.

If the issue is trak teeth... have this alliance rotate on Seb.

[kylok]

You mean sacrificing real life for everquest?

Shit's classic

[Bantam 1]

You mean sacrificing real life for everquest? Most people would prefer not to do that.

If you don't have a decent amount of time to raid anyway.. how are you going to raid?


EQ raiding isn't hard in terms of killing the boss itself... so if you put out tokens EVERYONE would be decked in no time.

The hard part in EQ was always mobilization.

How is no training going to really help in VP? Is this just an issue of one raid guild being bigger than the other? If so see the original point.

I think you're all good people... I just think everyone needs to be honest with their intentions and be honest about where their priorities are.


If you really want to open up the raid scene you're going to have to counter whoever the top dog is. Stopping VP training seems just like a bandaid.


The reason why any top dog guild is so successful is partly because the people apping believe they are truly the only game in town to raid. When other guilds just throw up their hands going "we ain't got no time fo that" you're just enforcing it.... so if all the people who really want to raid are going to the top dog guild; then why are you trying to fight with them over spawns?

[khanable]

Do any of your guilds have people who could actually raid if given the chance?

I don't think you realize there are like 8 raid capable guilds on this server

[Malphite]

Anyone can train. People used to do it in the old days just to be vindictive. It promotes a VERY toxic atmosphere.

As someone who has farmed mobs for MONTHS in raids, i'd honestly like to see 1 mob a week be given up by top guilds for a server wide alliance. Can spread sheet it all out, and let the non hardcore players enjoy a little piece of the end game

[Bantam 1]

I don't think you realize there are like 8 raid capable guilds on this server

Then what's the issue? TMO just kills everything first? Or is the will just not there?


I need to get to sleep.

[Legend]

another lowbie playing forum quest with no idea whats going on end game

/fantasy

its fun to imagine and dream

[Bantam 1]

another lowbie playing forum quest with no idea whats going on end game

/fantasy

its fun to imagine and dream

Yep because I've never raided before. Nope never seen raid drama in any of the games I've played for the last 14 years....

I mean .. geez what's it like playing up there with the stars? Gosh I'm just awe struck personally.

Seriously going to sleep I got an 8:30 meeting :(

[khanable]

Then what's the issue? TMO just kills everything first? Or is the will just not there?


I need to get to sleep.

Combination of both, really.

1, TMO out mobilizes
2, TMO has more experience
3, TMO has a larger, more well equipped raid force

As it stands, with variance and extended variance, guilds that are !TMO need to sit at a spawn for 1-x many hours (where x can be quite large), of which is stupendously boring. So when people don't want to do this, they need to beat TMO at #1, which is pretty damned difficult if not impossible unless we're camped at the mob.

Some guilds have adopted the strategy of raiding zones when bosses go into late window. Farm loots, get a shot at a boss, no sitting around required. Way more often than not, the boss won't pop. No biggy. If the boss does pop, the smaller guild gets a shot.

However, due to general lack of experience with the mob (mostly newer folk or what have you -- I'm one of them!), coupled with the necessity to engage/kill a mob instantly, smaller guilds wipe. You're basically tossed the basketball while not facing the net and have to make the shot immediately. If you miss, you lost the mob.

Sit through this for a few weeks and people get burnt out and don't want to raid.

Remove non-classic silly things (like variance), and more guilds get a shot at a mob on a weekly basis. Experience goes up. Players less likely to burn out due to actually seeing/engaging mobs.

EQ raiding on live was hardcore enough -- needing to devote time at strange hours to kill mobs. P99 is the same way just far more amplified.

It doesn't help that the raid scene is just down right toxic. Due to people absolutely needing to rush you see unintentional trains, which are almost always seen as intentional by opposing forces. Rules get skirted to increase the likelihood of loot. People get pixel hungry and turn into outright dildos.

Your suggestion to form an alliance might sound good on paper, but in practice it's something that is going to take a serious effort to be even mildly effective. It's certainly not something that is going to happen overnight. People need to be geared appropriately for raids, they need to have mobilization items, they need practice.

Lets assume, for the sake of argument, that everyone non-TMO guild takes their best raiders and throws them together to form a super team of raiders. None of them are VP keyed.

1) They need Traks. They need to dump $$ into PR gear. They need to be more or less camped out at poop mountain with everyone on a batphone, willing to neglect whatever is happening in their life, or they all need to be sitting at their computers for hours on end ready to go. Lets say they get a Trak. They get 4 teeth. Now they need to do it again, 10x times or so. TMO is going to notice their efforts and place more effort into Trak. Even if players are totally okay with dealing with all of this, it's still something that takes a tremendous amount of time.

Lets assume all of the non TMO folks that are VP keyed get together and form an alliance to do VP. They all enter VP. Bam, train straight to the dick. They're fighting an uphill battle. Say they overcome the trains and get themselves into VP. They start moving around to get a dragon. One person wipes them with a well placed train. Now they need to CR in the shittiest place to do a CR. Now they're up against TMO strengths 1-3 AND they need to combat trains.

So really people will argue against these rules as it is just another thing that helps distance TMO from them, far more so than what would occur on a truly classic experience. Also note that on classic there were very frequent patches with full respawns, which was usually enough to give the smaller guilds something cool to do.

TL;DR
The raid scene is toxic as fuck
A huge gap would need to be closed for anyone to overcome TMO, even if forming an alliance
People hate variance and trains because it helps TMO remain on top, and it's just another hurdle they need to overcome
Easier to just app to TMO if you want pixels

[finalgrunt]

Yep because I've never raided before. Nope never seen raid drama in any of the games I've played for the last 14 years....

I mean .. geez what's it like playing up there with the stars? Gosh I'm just awe struck personally.

Seriously going to sleep I got an 8:30 meeting :(

You act as if you were the only one who played for the last 14 years. Fact is, you can't begin to imagine how toxic end game is before trying it. It goes way beyond outmobilizing competition inside the game. Unless you're ready to cheat, train with untagged accounts, RL stalk people, forumquest, make sure most people in your team own multiple accounts to park them at different targets and work your way into staff's favors, have enough people to track 24/7, don't even bother :rolleyes:

Fact is, most raid capable players don't want to play like this. It's not classic.

[Jarnauga]

The fact is most of the people playing don't want to pvp, they want to pve.

/thread

[Tiggles]

Thread tl;dr only thing that can kill TMO is TMO.

So suck it up

[Jarnauga]

Thread tl;dr only thing that can kill TMO is TMO.



i'd add cholesterol

[Clark]

i'd add cholesterol

lol

[khanable]

lol

[newsmurf]

level 28 shaman talking about the end game raiding meta on this server...LOL. i fucking laughed so hard.

[Tasslehofp99]

Thread tl;dr only thing that can kill TMO is TMO.

So suck it up

Quite a fitting quote for this morning's Innoruuk pop.

[Sckrilla]

TMO killed TMO this morning on Innoruuk? News to me.

[Pan]

I think most of us spend time on P99 to have fun. Screwing with and getting screwed by TMO isn't any fun for me...so that's why I choose not to engage in the shitfest.

Further, in order to compete on a playing field that is not level, one must necessarily adopt the tactics of your opponent. That's not something I'm willing to do for a variety of reasons.

[myriverse]

Competition, by corollary, does not beget hate. What planet are you from?
Are you kidding me? That's what generates most hate.

[falkun]

I endorse this message for the sake of competition.

Let's provide insight into Neitche's understanding of "competition":
1) Neitche joined TMO after IB left the server.
2) Neitche is not on the pull or train force of TMO, and so sits in raid with everyone else waiting for the pixel-holder to be brought to them.
3) Neitche left BDA when VD merged with BDA because Neitche did not like the "hardcore assholes" VD was bringing to BDA.
4) Neitche joined TMO months after VP had been opened, and months after the original TMO already had BiS outside VP.

Neitche, every single TMO asserts IB provided more stiff competition than FE ever did. So either you don't know competition, or ever other TMO member is wrong, take your pick.

[Wildino]

i'd add cholesterol

Lol of the day, bay far !

(bien joué)

[Ryba]

Elite neckbeards trying to shoot down a guy's idea because he is level 28 and wants to find a way to fix shit before he throws away all of his spare time. Unbelievable.

OP: these guys are lifers with full on Stockholm syndrome. They need you to respect their pixels. This is what you're up against if you want to raid. If you make a Voltron force out of multiple guilds, you will wake up one morning with a glorious neckbeard cascading down your chins, because to be successful here you have to become disgusting.

Just play casually and be happy that p99 is keeping the EQ light on for you at all.

[Servellious]

Then what's the issue? TMO just kills everything first? Or is the will just not there?


I need to get to sleep.

ego's and loot whores.

[Servellious]

i'd add cholesterol

just caught that, very nice haha.

[Bantam 1]

So what I'm reading is that to really counter TMO or IB we need a pot luck dinner every week sent to their members?

I can make cheesecake pretty well!

[General]

Wasn't IB reformed to beat TMO? Whose gonna form to beat the guild thats forming to beat the guild that formed to beat TMO? that's right. this is stupid.

[falkun]

Wasn't IB reformed to beat TMO? Whose gonna form to beat the guild thats forming to beat the guild that formed to beat TMO? that's right. this is stupid.

Now you're getting it. The mindset needs to change or it'll just transition from one overlord to the next.

[radditsu]

Bantam

The main use of the funds they get from trakanon breastplates and other gear is to buy other accounts to sit on spawn targets. These accounts are shared to people with the most playtime. So you have 20-30ish people with access to 20 accounts sitting on every target not in VP. So while most guilds would have to mobilize to a place. They can log in account and be fighting the boss 8-10 seconds after logging in. Sometimes they will tank stall a fight with Soulfire's *instant click cheal with 5 charges and easy to get*, to established something called FTE(First to engage). So they can have 2-3 people fight a raid mob almost indefinitely until forces log in.

It is pretty insurmountable unless you ask your entire guild to set their primary level 60 raider on a spawn point and log on 3-5 seconds after a batphone(a text message/twitter blast) is called by the tracker(the guy who gets paid DKP to sit and look at their screen until the mob pops).

Hope that explains to you what goes on at a high level raiding situation.

[Acrux Bcrux]

On Prexus towards the end of PoP, maybe even a little later some guy on the server had made a public pickup raid channel called barbraid for people to get backflagged through the planes. It was a massive shit show. I remember one raid in PoInnovation with about 178 people and it was almost a wipe. But they got shit done. Someone needs to start something similar on this server, even though it would be tough and completely different since were dealing with variances and people poopsocking rather than mobs just being left up since no one needed them and there were bigger targets to worry about. But it would be interesting to see a massive raid crew full of people who had no clue what was going on to put some extra pressure on TMO. Shit even just to see some shit like this go down to see the massive amount of hysteria that it would cause at raid targets would be awesome.

[Wotsirb401]

You realize by now most people who have been on the server for a bit have several raid ready toons, either by leveling them up or friends quitting etc. I am casual, make that very casual and I have 3 raid ready toons. Yes it sucks to have to continually re-park toons when i miss a batphone due to work or sleep but what else is there to do? Farm plat no way !

[Nirgon]

This is more an issue of a 4 year classic/kunark timeline and everyone having reached the level/gear requirements to attempt these encounters. Classic/Kunark was never designed to last this long.

The people with all the free time to kill these mobs would have been killing them uncontested while you guys were leveling up. Now that you've caught up, you're trying to contest them and are surprised at the result?

[Nlaar]

Fact is, you can't begin to imagine how toxic end game is before trying it. It goes way beyond outmobilizing competition inside the game. Unless you're ready to cheat, train with untagged accounts, RL stalk people, forumquest, make sure most people in your team own multiple accounts to park them at different targets and work your way into staff's favors, have enough people to track 24/7, don't even bother :rolleyes:

Fact is, most raid capable players don't want to play like this. It's not classic.

Couldn't agree more. I was shocked by the pure spite that TMO showed towards VD when IB left and their focus was completely on VD. I play soccer for fun and competition. I don't take dives, I don't scream at the refs. Trying to raid on P99 with that same approach is impossible ... see quote above.

Toxic doesn't even begin to cover it...

[radditsu]

This is more an issue of a 4 year classic/kunark timeline and everyone having reached the level/gear requirements to attempt these encounters. Classic/Kunark was never designed to last this long.

The people with all the free time to kill these mobs would have been killing them uncontested while you guys were leveling up. Now that you've caught up, you're trying to contest them and are surprised at the result?

It is an issue. Timeline is a big issue.

But also this server is not exactly advertised. I knew about EQ shortly after it came out.

This server is a ghost unless you basically google search for "classic everquest", or you frequent nerd boards.

There is also a ton of player rollover.

All these issues combined together make one big soup of awful. The least thing that could be done is make it as fair as possible to allow people to experience content.


You of all people should know this form of the server does not matter ultimately. Its going to be the wiped from scratch according to timeline one that will be done 2-3 years down the line.

[Alarti0001]

Now you're getting it. The mindset needs to change or it'll just transition from one overlord to the next.

The mindset did change its called WoW, Rift, or any recent MMO.

[timhutton]

This is more an issue of a 4 year classic/kunark timeline and everyone having reached the level/gear requirements to attempt these encounters. Classic/Kunark was never designed to last this long.

The people with all the free time to kill these mobs would have been killing them uncontested while you guys were leveling up. Now that you've caught up, you're trying to contest them and are surprised at the result?

True, I think that is the exact same argument TR was using against having to share VP dragons with TMO when VP was released. Since there was an 8? month delay in opening VP it allowed people (TMO) time to farm up and be ready for that zone as well, whereas if the timeline were accurate TR would have cleared the zoned months before TMO even earned their first Trakanon kill.

Now it's TMO at the top, and the rest of the server ready to raid. 5 Months from now it may be somebody else. What happens a couple of years after Velious is released and the server is stagnant? More of the same?

Outlooks need to change if anything good is ever going to happen, otherwise it's just going to be a continued cycle of shit that perpetuates itself.

[timhutton]

The mindset did change its called WoW, Rift, or any recent MMO.

No those games are even lazier than that. The mindset remained the same while the game itself changed to accomodate.

[Nirgon]

You use this word share when no one has any intention of doing so.

The "fair" thing to do (not fair to TMO who had worked to come up in the strug that you guys didn't have to etc, it should become obvious when you think about it) would be this:

Raid calendar made by Sirken
2 week raid suspension for any guild / group breaking rules on said calendar

Wouldn't even require much more than that.

However, for all the bitching about TMO, you all forget they had to contest with IB in somewhat their prime. IB was a VERY strong EverQuest raid guild by my standards (well they had future knowledge, who is to say if they went in with no knowledge how they'd do compared to a guild like Afterlife or FoH in the day). They put an insane amount of time lawyering on the forums, talking to GMs, dealing with corruption, exploits/bugs that don't exist now, trying to recruit against other guilds, power leveling needed classes, farming items that are easily bought cheaply now and most importantly sleepless nights getting to where they are now.

Is it "fair" to just now hand down a raid calendar after they put in all that effort? Well, probably not. If there had been a calendar to begin with, they wouldn't have had to put in all that misery to get where they are now.

So, there's your "fair" to everyone else, but I am personally of the belief you should have to go through what they did to get your mobs. That's fair. Notice I didn't put quotations around the use in that last sentence.

It's a hard struggle, its not for everyone, but I see this everywhere RL too. People work their asses off to get on top and hold their position, and people cry because they want it too but aren't going to put in the same work for it.

Not my decision but there's the facts.

[timhutton]

I used the word share because the guilds were forced to share the mobs when VP was released.

Not sure what the rest of your post is alluding too, but yes I think the majority of the server does want a "fair" environment to play/raid in.

It shouldn't be about what one guild/group of players want. That should be more than obvious by this point.

Ultimately though players have almost no say and it comes down to whatever Rogean/Sirken wants. Which is why you get so much bitching/qq'ing on the forums about stuff. Pretty sure all they care about is a happy/content playerbase so if nothing else maybe all of the threads and polls bring issues to their attention.

Hoping they give a shit is another crapshoot entirely.

[Nirgon]

They give a shit (see addition of FTE shouts) but they can either screw over people with 100s of hours of place time, or create and enforce a raid calendar (variable completely when mobs spawn, documenting who got what last, how long guilds have to kill things after spawning...) or just leave it the way it is.

My opinion on variance is it just favors people who can log in at any hour of the day. This becomes a bigger problem the longer the time line goes on and the player base increasingly "only needs" loots from raid npcs.

On a classic, fresh start server with ~1 year classic, ~1 year Kunark, ~1 year Velious... things pan out very differently.

[Nietche]

Are you kidding me? That's what generates most hate.

By corollary?

[Nietche]

Let's provide insight into Neitche's understanding of "competition":
1) Neitche joined TMO after IB left the server.
2) Neitche is not on the pull or train force of TMO, and so sits in raid with everyone else waiting for the pixel-holder to be brought to them.
3) Neitche left BDA when VD merged with BDA because Neitche did not like the "hardcore assholes" VD was bringing to BDA.
4) Neitche joined TMO months after VP had been opened, and months after the original TMO already had BiS outside VP.

Neitche, every single TMO asserts IB provided more stiff competition than FE ever did. So either you don't know competition, or ever other TMO member is wrong, take your pick.

Or you're an idiot.

[Nietche]

but I am personally of the belief you should have to go through what they did to get your mobs. That's fair.

It's a hard struggle, its not for everyone, but I see this everywhere RL too. People work their asses off to get on top and hold their position, and people cry because they want it too but aren't going to put in the same work for it.

[Ravager]

Remove variance and un-nerf Yvandyr's Hoop. Playing field leveled. Nuts to the "work" TMO did to get where they are. 2 years of farming raid mobs is reward enough.

[Nirgon]

I think I'd let them decide what's reward enough.

As I've said before, Obama does not govern this server.

[Splorf22]

The playing field is obviously level now. It's just covered in manure, and most people don't want to come within 50 feet of it.

[Ravager]

What does Obama have to do with anything?

[Kope]

Is it "fair" to just now hand down a raid calendar after they put in all that effort? Well, probably not. If there had been a calendar to begin with, they wouldn't have had to put in all that misery to get where they are now.

How many years after a contest is over does the winner of said contest get to wear the "I won" t-shirt without washing it?

Generally the answer is until the people around them say "Man...you really really stink...go wash that shirt or I'm going to wash it for you, with you still wearing it!"

People are to the point of saying "Man...you really really stink." but don't quite want to take the step of washing it for you.

[Nirgon]

I you want it, take it.

If you can't, wait till they're done with it.

[Ravager]

I you want it, take it.

If you can't, wait till they're done with it.

This argument is dumb for 2 reasons:

1.) There is no way to compete at this point in the game. All they need is 20 people to log on any of the toons parked at all of the raid mobs. If you think it can be done, I'd like to see you find a group of raiders who will park their mains at any raid mob, wait for the batphone and see who can log on faster at any time of day and not get burned out by it.

2.) They'll never be done with it because they'll always be taking in new apps from the people who are too fed up trying to fight against them because of #1 or just flat out buying those toons and gearing them to park at more mobs.

[Nirgon]

1) I'm amazed they aren't burned out by it, I would be.

2) Again, the position they earned.

You guys complaining wouldn't have been able to contest IB either. They were able to, whether it was at the end of their reign or whatever.. that can stay out of this. But at no point could the people complaining have beaten IB at this either.

It's not an argument, I'm stating a fact that reflects reality. You don't like it, if I was you I wouldn't either. That's life pal. Not everyone gets to be #1, and #1 doesn't always like to share. Further before they were #1, no one really shared with them either.

How would you like a few months or a year after your guild beat TMO, they all quit (for whatever reason) that some other group came along with half or a quarter of the time investment and asked for a calendar? Easy to say you'd support it and I don't think you or your leadership would given what it would take to beat them.

[Kope]

Get your government hands out of my medicaid!

[Jarnauga]

I you want it, take it.

If you can't, wait till they're done with it.

Hey Somalia, just go to war against the USA, it's that simple ! Y SO LAZY

[Ravager]

1) I'm amazed they aren't burned out by it, I would be.

2) Again, the position they earned.

You guys complaining wouldn't have been able to contest IB either. They were able to, whether it was at the end of their reign or whatever.. that can stay out of this. But at no point could the people complaining have beaten IB at this either.

It's not an argument, I'm stating a fact that reflects reality. You don't like it, if I was you I wouldn't either. That's life pal. Not everyone gets to be #1, and #1 doesn't always like to share. Further before they were #1, no one really shared with them either.

How would you like a few months or a year after your guild beat TMO, they all quit (for whatever reason) that some other group came along with half or a quarter of the time investment and asked for a calendar? Easy to say you'd support it and I don't think you or your leadership would given what it would take to beat them.

And this is why threads like this show up, because there is something fundamentally wrong with the rules on this server and why everyone appeals to the staff to try and get things changed. The mentality that in order to be #1 you have to turn a game on a hobby server into a job with more on call hours than a fireman is unhealthy and stupid. I have a vague memory of reading posts by even Alarti back before TMO was on top complaining about all the things people are complaining about now.

[Nirgon]

Hey Somalia, just go to war against the USA, it's that simple ! Y SO LAZY

You think its really that bad to have people camped out at raid mobs and try to throw the javelin first?

3 warriors, 5-6 rogues, 4-5 clerics.

Definitely as hard as Somalia going at the US.

What a notably dramatic and ridiculous comparison.

I recall people complaining about IB's reign of dominance. The difference is, while they were complaining they kept at it and eventually won the war of attritition.

[Ravager]

Also, I agree that they earned it then. But they are certainly not earning it now. The circumstances that they faced then are far and away different than the ones others face now.

[Orruar]

Haven't played seriously in almost a year, and I find it crazy that this is still going on. Has TMO not yet gotten tired of killing the same trivial dragons for all this time? Is the raiding scene still this terrible?

Everyone involved in making the endgame of this server what it is, ask yourselves this: If you learned that you had only 24 hours to live, would you spend that time poopsocking raid targets? And would you feel good about how you spent the last year (or 3) of your life? There is more to this world than fighting for dragon loot and it's an absolute tragedy to see the miracle of the human mind wasted in this way.

[Nirgon]

I agree they aren't earning it now, its easy for them. They're enjoying the fruits of their efforts. They have the right people and a system that works.

A batphone is a step in the right direction, so is tracking.

In fact, all you have to do is copy them but just be less burnt out and more motivated (read: you need the drops more).

If you keep a few months of that going, they will have to put pressure on their own members and maybe some will just wash out because they didn't sign up for the hard camps and mob contesting.

Even if they don't quit entirely? Worst case scenario? You get maybe even 40% of the mobs.

[timhutton]

They give a shit (see addition of FTE shouts) but they can either screw over people with 100s of hours of place time, or create and enforce a raid calendar (variable completely when mobs spawn, documenting who got what last, how long guilds have to kill things after spawning...) or just leave it the way it is.

My opinion on variance is it just favors people who can log in at any hour of the day. This becomes a bigger problem the longer the time line goes on and the player base increasingly "only needs" loots from raid npcs.

On a classic, fresh start server with ~1 year classic, ~1 year Kunark, ~1 year Velious... things pan out very differently.

Personally, I think all the changes that have been implemented (Variance, hands-off VP, FTE rule) were only so that they didn't have to spend so much of their time answering raid petitions/dealing with the shitheads that make up the majority of hardcore raiders on this server. Rather than fix the raidscene or make it straight classic; unless it directly benefits them they don't give a fuck. The changes that are being discussed by players give the devs 0 incentive to implement.

Raid calendars/dealing with petitions all take time that people want to spend doing other shit. That's the issue with having volunteers over paid staff. There's ultimately 0 accountability anywhere.

Sorry if that's pessemistic or comes off as entitled/whiny but I've been around long enough to see all of these changes occur. If Variance, training, or any other conjured up raid rules had existed in classic people wouldn't mind.

That's not the case, and that's what sucks.

P.S. They shouldn't have to screw over anyone, things should be as they were on EverQuest between the years of 1999-2001. That should be the end of the discussion, and Nilbog should have made it as such. At the end of the day, Classic EverQuest was best EverQuest.

[Orruar]

To the OP:

Enjoy this server for what it is, but don't get involved in the bs of the raiding game here. Find your own way to play and enjoy the ride. Then when you do get the urge to raid, just leave. The raiding game here is like a hot dog eating competition. If you win, you're still a fat, worthless piece of shit, albeit with a shiny new trophy. And if you lose, you have to live knowing you lost to a fat, worthless piece of shit. There is nothing to be gained.

[Kope]

Haven't played seriously in almost a year, and I find it crazy that this is still going on. Has TMO not yet gotten tired of killing the same trivial dragons for all this time? Is the raiding scene still this terrible?

From TMO's perspective (from what I hear and understand) the problem is 2 fold for them.

1) With old members burning out or not wanting to play the game once they have a lot of gear they must replace those individuals with new people, who are obviously not geared as they need to be yet. They need to gear those guys up while still getting the top end gear for the members who have been at it for a while. This creates a spiral of gear necessity.

2) The way their DKP system works they need to have people tracking mobs to earn the DKP for the high end items, which also sets them in an ever increasing need to get the lower end raid mobs that have 1 or 2 rare items that some of their people still need.

The problem also occurs that you can't get raid mobs (almost) anywhere else. TMO is by far the top dog on the server in number of contested mobs killed, which means if you want mobs you go to them. Even if someone wants to play relaxed and get some mobs it's hardly possibly and/or worth it. I have even heard (in the past, i assume it is still correct) some prominent TMO members say they would prefer to not have to put the time in they do because there isn't much competition anymore.

What would it actually be like if those people could go to smaller guilds, get less contested mobs but still have a chance at them? Who would actually lose here? We have been in an ever spiraling system for a while, and it really benefits no one but everyone's afraid to break the system.

[Raavak]

Has TMO not yet gotten tired of killing the same trivial dragons for all this time?For one, there are always new members that need things. And two, the core leadership is still there, loves the competition, and is gearing up yet another alt. Alts keep things fresh.

[Nirgon]

Personally, I think that's why that was created as well.

But people want to stay up till 6am on a work day farming pixels for some reason. No one wants to stay up watching this (referee) for no pixel gain.

I want to do neither, like most normal people.

[Ravager]

For one, there are always new members that need things. And two, the core leadership is still there, loves the competition, and is gearing up yet another alt. Alts keep things fresh.

Where's the competition?

[Vaildez]

Haven't played seriously in almost a year, and I find it crazy that this is still going on. Has TMO not yet gotten tired of killing the same trivial dragons for all this time? Is the raiding scene still this terrible?

Everyone involved in making the endgame of this server what it is, ask yourselves this: If you learned that you had only 24 hours to live, would you spend that time poopsocking raid targets? And would you feel good about how you spent the last year (or 3) of your life? There is more to this world than fighting for dragon loot and it's an absolute tragedy to see the miracle of the human mind wasted in this way.

Sadly this IS probably a lot of their lives and if the plug ever got pulled they would need to be on suicide watch.

[Nirgon]

I imagine they'd go over to EQMac if that happened. Or another game.

[AceTravis]

To the OP:

Enjoy this server for what it is, but don't get involved in the bs of the raiding game here. Find your own way to play and enjoy the ride. Then when you do get the urge to raid, just leave. The raiding game here is like a hot dog eating competition. If you win, you're still a fat, worthless piece of shit, albeit with a shiny new trophy. And if you lose, you have to live knowing you lost to a fat, worthless piece of shit. There is nothing to be gained.

Lol!

[Samoht]

Remove non-classic silly things (like variance)

so your solution to people lacking raid experience is just to have everything on a known timer so 200 people can sit at the spawn point right clicking for FTE?

no what we really need is some rule clarifications (wtf @ taken kiting fay for 5 minutes) and enforcement. no more trains, even in VP. no more leapfrogging at the vox prep room.

to sum it up, TMO has no incentive to share pixels as long as they (or anybody else for that matter) are allowed to skirt the rules.

un-nerf Yvandyr's Hoop.

classic or not, some changes are definitely for the best. waiting for soufire fix to only work for paladins even in inventory. try clicking one on any other class on live from the last 12 years. go ahead and try.

[Raavak]

Where's the competition?In the last 2 repops Taken, Divinity, IB, FE, and BDA I think all at least attempted a boss mobs. FE downed the last 2 Traks. There is competition.

[Ruenaros]

wtb simulated maintenance day repops.... one guy can't login 5 parked toons simultaneously here (at least not easily).

[Ravager]

In the last 2 repops Taken, Divinity, IB, FE, and BDA I think all at least attempted a boss mobs. FE downed the last 2 Traks. There is competition.

It takes the rare and inconsistent repops for there to be a shadow of competition. Nobody who's joined TMO in the last year and a half did it for the competition.

[Arteker]

Couldn't agree more. I was shocked by the pure spite that TMO showed towards VD when IB left and their focus was completely on VD. I play soccer for fun and competition. I don't take dives, I don't scream at the refs. Trying to raid on P99 with that same approach is impossible ... see quote above.

Toxic doesn't even begin to cover it...

a real fan would call it by huis name Football

[Sarius]

I would like to see how many people at the top have IP exemptions. Of those, I wonder how many are actually valid.

[Waedawen]

There are a lot of intelligent adults out there posting (in a few threads I read). So a thought popped in my mind.... what are all your true priorities in terms of end game? Do any of your guilds have people who could actually raid if given the chance?


Why doesn't each guild who really wants the end game to open up dedicate a group of their more hardcore types and create an alliance of sorts....

And just beat TMO at their own game? or IB or whoever? Anyone who has raided knows as soon as the winds turn a little.... shit goes down.

Instead of arguing about rules... how about fighting back? Nothing they can do can't be done by you.


TDLR - create a massive alliance zerg and start taking raid mobs. TMO trains you? Train them back... they train you harder? You guys have intelligent folks....fight back.


Because the fact of creating a massive alliance of zerging players is FUCKING. STUPID.