I just realized whats happening and why Nilbog shows sudden interest in fixing bugs

[Smedy]

1. Nilbog has always wanted a pvp server with teams and item loot

2. Nilbog shows interest in fixing pvp bugs on red99

3. GM's talks about teams, and what they should be

Is there a teams server in the making? I have a hard time believing that they would introduce teams to red99 when it's way late into kunark

[Tradesonred]

To me a teams server is failed from the start, because of what was discussed in that huge thread about teams.

Id play on a wiped red99 with FFA 4 or 8 42+ levels. If it would bring some sort of pop surge. Wouldnt be the same as before for sure because xp loss is gone from the start.

But i cant see how they can manage the pop imbalance on a potential teams server. EQ is such a huge investment of time that i wouldnt bother with some failed from the start server thats gonna die in 3 months once its clear one of the team wins and its hardcoded in place. I see this killing the pop on red99 for good.

Hate to be "negative" like this, but thats what i think will happen if a 3rd teams server is launched.

[Stasis01]

I don't know if I could do FFA again - it's always the same shit haha.

[Dullah]

To me a teams server is failed from the start, because of what was discussed in that huge thread about teams.

Id play on a wiped red99 with FFA 4 or 8 42+ levels. If it would bring some sort of pop surge. Wouldnt be the same as before for sure because xp loss is gone from the start.

But i cant see how they can manage the pop imbalance on a potential teams server. EQ is such a huge investment of time that i wouldnt bother with some failed from the start server thats gonna die in 3 months once its clear one of the team wins and its hardcoded in place. I see this killing the pop on red99 for good.

Hate to be "negative" like this, but thats what i think will happen if a 3rd teams server is launched.

Even after xp loss is changed, you still cant make a post without talking about xp loss. You've obviously been scarred for life.

[Feniggles]

five years from now if any of us are still around we will be talking about how good p99 was and how we wish the current server was more like it.

more phil collins im on a kick tonight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkADj0TPrJA&list=RD02zU9lv_WqK6k

[Stasis01]

Hate to say it P99 is pretty good right now. Tstaffs nerfed - YT/leaderboard.

Only problem is the one sidedness - and it's going to take the players to do something about it I suppose.

[Feniggles]

Hate to say it P99 is pretty good right now. Tstaffs nerfed - YT/leaderboard.

Only problem is the one sidedness - and it's going to take the players to do something about it I suppose.

nah we all quit and spend our times on the msg board now.

[heartbrand]

I've said it before ill say it again, this server needs fresh non vztz blood which could be facilitated by blue transfers particularly a couple of guilds on blue who have been cock blocked by TMO. Need more normal human beings less trolls.

[Feniggles]

would help if you and knuckle weren't sellouts!

sorry hb i needed to post my last phill collins song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0qBaBb1Y-U

[Nirgon]

Normal human beings left @ the sight of launch issues and corruption. Only the insane and pixel addicted remain.

[Stinkum]

normal human beings already joined the server but were alienated due to poor launch, lack of development on major bugs, FFA ruleset, and the fact that w/absolutely no groups trying to solo your 18 dwarf rogue with a rusty dagger to 60 is about as appealing as seeing amelinda naked

[XiakenjaTZ]

Word is he got the invite to EQ in vegas. I wonder if they will let him run a box if he gets hired to work on EQnext.

[Nirgon]

Trying to solo a rogue does sound like something someone dumb would do, esp if they had played EQ in any capacity before. I've seen many try.

[Danien]

Well, a huge portion of the playerbase was cancerous from the start. There were several times I saw people get invited to groups just to get killed after they had spent 20 mins getting there and other pointless griefing shit. Quit the box for the first time after 2-3 weeks of playing because while I could deal with it, I could not see normal people surviving in that environment.

Imagine my surprise when the server ended up being a ghost town (The population was plummeting long before holo was banned) just a few months later.

[Nirgon]

Most did come here with the mindset of "attack and kill everyone else", and it definitely turned out that way.

The most brutal stories weren't even reported.

[heartbrand]

The type of people that play here is the number one reason this server no matter the ruleset will always have an incredibly low pop.

[Nirgon]

Darkenbane or the rando-PKs never ruled RZ for a reason.

2000 pop server, vs 200 pop server.

2000 people who want the option of PvP vs 200 over immersed scum bags who literally live and breathe grief.

Server without whirl/root spam, "lure" mage pet root etc vs raptors are no longer animals but lava crawlers in same patch note are.

As strong as OG-Holo was on the battlefield, a guild with that mindset would have gotten raped into submission on RZ. Surprisingly, MOST people aren't random PKs who corpse camp and send insanely hateful tells after a 5v1. However, without the ~3 mostly active GMs stomping out no-goodnicks and enforced PnP policy, the poison was allowed to spread.

Example: Corpse camping here legal -> fail (Yes, I did it to certain people. Doesn't mean it should exist)

Some didn't want to corpse camp people just as much as they didn't want to be corpse camped on live.

Doesn't change anything and social analytical pargraphs are a waste of time, and that flavor of troll bait is played out.

You have to account for malignant members in any community and I just don't think that level of enforcement is possible on a private server. I blame the system before I blame the players. The good news about said system, is that after the precedent is set, the shitbag community learns it lesson and less enforcement is required over time.

[big league chew]

randy pks are fine
corpsecamping aint a big deal

whats even is grief? i could see bind camping someone with exp loss enabled being grief, anything besides that is just an inconvinience that could have been avoided with even a moderate skill level
aka play better

[runlvlzero]

As much as I would love a fresh TZ (race war?) teams server with item loot and hard coded (mostly) teams.

I think right now is not the time for new servers. P99 under full on attack by script kiddies and bad sad mad angry sys admins at the ISP level.

We need to get them set up with a router and some network security.

Bug fix the original code pve, and pvp. Just make it work great. And finish the velious database/scripting.

If we rush out with a new teams server its going to be neckbeard exploits 30 pop till 150 pop 101 all over again.

I plan on playing a bunch more on old red 99 FFA but right now I don't have the time to invest with all the crazy shit going in in game and IRL.

GL all. Again, would love a teams server and I hope Nilbog is excited about it too. Just work on fixing up the main EMU fork that you guys are diffing off of.

[Stasis01]

RZ was a shit hole, TZ ruled - rest my case.

[Stinkum]

Well, a huge portion of the playerbase was cancerous from the start. There were several times I saw people get invited to groups just to get killed after they had spent 20 mins getting there and other pointless griefing shit. Quit the box for the first time after 2-3 weeks of playing because while I could deal with it, I could not see normal people surviving in that environment.

Imagine my surprise when the server ended up being a ghost town (The population was plummeting long before holo was banned) just a few months later.

This is what happens in FFA ruleset.

FFA is for sociopath type griefers who want to kill everything including group members medding at 1% hp.

It makes for fun times when there's fresh meat to but soon enough you're playing by yourself or gearing your 9th alt with VP gear because the server is so fucking boring and empty.

As far as perpetual health of a server, a team ruleset is the only way to go.

[big league chew]

if theres teams, anyone who picks same team as me is a weak faggot that can fuck themselves
im still gonna kill everyone, fuck u & teams

[Stinkum]

FFA caters to mindless chewie type players who want sandbox PvP and being able to attack anything moving on their screen.

not saying that isn't fun for a while but FFA from launch is bad for long-term server health. every incarnation of a FFA ruleset has ended up with the same type of 75-pop server with mostly the same exact VZTZ people playing on it. it gets old.

[HippoNipple]

FFA caters to mindless chewie type players who want sandbox PvP and being able to attack anything moving on their screen.

not saying that isn't fun for a while but FFA from launch is bad for long-term server health. every incarnation of a FFA ruleset has ended up with the same type of 75-pop server with mostly the same exact VZTZ people playing on it. it gets old.

The live team servers didn't last either. All servers will most likely have a low population. You gotta think in terms of what rules would you want implemented to play with the current player base. No matter what type of server it is the people that play on this server will be the powerhouses on any server.

[SamwiseRed]

Ffa in confirmed faggoty. Think counter strike would have been any good if it was just FFA deathmatch. Teams > FFA. In rl and in game. If you don't believe that then you are a retard. Only time FFA is fun is an orgy

[Nirgon]

RZ was a shit hole, TZ ruled - rest my case.

Shit hole with the best PvP rogue, live Wendolyn got lucky is all (and had retarded gear advantage with working mechanics)

[Tradesonred]

Example: Corpse camping here legal -> fail (Yes, I did it to certain people. Doesn't mean it should exist)

Some didn't want to corpse camp people just as much as they didn't want to be corpse camped on live.

Doesn't change anything and social analytical pargraphs are a waste of time, and that flavor of troll bait is played out.

You have to account for malignant members in any community and I just don't think that level of enforcement is possible on a private server. I blame the system before I blame the players. The good news about said system, is that after the precedent is set, the shitbag community learns it lesson and less enforcement is required over time.

To me the biggest problem with Red99, which i layed out early in the servers launch, was that xp loss in pvp gave these sort of people a sharp knife to grief people with.

On rallos, that knife was a butter knife... you could corpse camp someone, but he wouldnt lose xp. I still remember that time when some ranger found my wizard's bindpoint and he proceeded to kill me over and over. I said in /say "Gonna make a sandwich, ill be back in 10mins". When i came back from my sandwich, he was still there, i didnt say anything and he kept killing me. He gave up after 5 more minutes. I was laughing. He was getting griefed, not me. Sorta.

If you dont have the thick skin to soak a bunch of corpse camps, i dont think youre cut out for EQ pvp anyway. Its just the custom added grief that was totally ridiculous.

We can all theorycraft about what went wrong, but id put my hand in the fire thats what killed alot of the servers pop, that griefers were allowed to thrive like this and put on steroids with the custom xp loss shit.

Thats why i thought a fresh start would have been good, because new people would have been allowed to dip their toes in the water and griefers would not have been given a free rein like they were in 2011-2012

Im not up to date on what was the whole purpose of the teams server thread, but i think a 3rd server splitting the pop in 2, to momentarily gain a pop that wouldnt stick around once its clear one team is winning is as bad an idea as xp loss in pvp, maybe worse. Red would lose some of its pop to the new server, which i would bet 200 bucks that it would not last for very long and by then red would be deader than dead. If there ever was such a thing as a tentative "Would you enjoy a teams server?" thing.

Ffa in confirmed faggoty. Think counter strike would have been any good if it was just FFA deathmatch. Teams > FFA. In rl and in game. If you don't believe that then you are a retard. Only time FFA is fun is an orgy

Not an argument. I havent read anyone that explained howd you balance the teams so pop wasnt allowed to spiral down the toilet because one side becomes dominant.

[Dullah]

This is what happens in FFA ruleset.

FFA is for sociopath type griefers who want to kill everything including group members medding at 1% hp.

It makes for fun times when there's fresh meat to but soon enough you're playing by yourself or gearing your 9th alt with VP gear because the server is so fucking boring and empty.

As far as perpetual health of a server, a team ruleset is the only way to go.

Not at all how it was on RZ. Strongest system of order vs chaos that I've ever seen in an online game. Griefers were rare, most were anti-pk and only fought other anti-pk guilds when they broke rules or stole camps or raid mobs.

[HippoNipple]

To me the biggest problem with Red99, which i layed out early in the servers launch, was that xp loss in pvp gave these sort of people a sharp knife to grief people with.

On rallos, that knife was a butter knife... you could corpse camp someone, but he wouldnt lose xp. I still remember that time when some ranger found my wizard's bindpoint and he proceeded to kill me over and over. I said in /say "Gonna make a sandwich, ill be back in 10mins". When i came back from my sandwich, he was still there, i didnt say anything and he kept killing me. I was laughing. He was getting griefed, not me. Sorta.

If you dont have the thick skin to soak a bunch of corpse camps, i dont think youre cut out for EQ pvp anyway. Its just the custom added grief that was totally ridiculous.

We can all theorycraft about what went wrong, but id put my hand in the fire thats what killed alot of the servers pop, that griefers were allowed to thrive like this and put on steroids with the custom xp loss shit.

Thats why i thought a fresh start would have been good, because new people would have been allowed to dip their toes in the water and griefers would not have been given a free rein like they were in 2011-2012

Im not up to date on what was the whole purpose of the teams server thread, but i think a 3rd server splitting the pop in 2, to momentarily gain a pop that wouldnt stick around once its clear one team is winning is as bad an idea as xp loss in pvp. If there was ever such a thing as a tentative "Would you enjoy a teams server?" thing.



Not an argument. I havent read anyone that explained howd you balance the teams so pop wasnt allowed to spiral down the toilet because one side becomes dominant.

The exp loss level 1-50 wasn't that bad. If you are getting corpse camped while you are at the keyboard why wouldn't you just plug and get on a different character for a bit. You can then message some friends to help out or just not log on that char for a half hour.

At low level you could get 20% of a level in an hour pretty easy and that should give you plenty of pvp deaths before you were in the hole.

I figured it was level 51+ that most people had a problem with when concerned about PvP exp loss and that obviously had no effect on the population early on.

I like having a penalty on death but along with a reward for killing someone. Item loot is a lot of fun and I believe it to be a much better system.

[Tradesonred]

The exp loss level 1-50 wasn't that bad. If you are getting corpse camped while you are at the keyboard why wouldn't you just plug and get on a different character for a bit. You can then message some friends to help out or just not log on that char for a half hour.

At low level you could get 20% of a level in an hour pretty easy and that should give you plenty of pvp deaths before you were in the hole.

I figured it was level 51+ that most people had a problem with when concerned about PvP exp loss and that obviously had no effect on the population early on.

I like having a penalty on death but along with a reward for killing someone. Item loot is a lot of fun and I believe it to be a much better system.

Its a dead horse but to anyone who played on Rallos, we can tell it was night and day. You could not spend 80% of your time pvping and 20% pveing on red. You would be in the hole. It doesnt matter if "it wasnt that bad" what matters is that it made Red a PVE heavy server, where rallos was a PVP heavy server. Totally different experience.

You dont make PVPers stick around with a PVE heavy gameplay, with a sprinkle of pvp on the side. I dont know, to me it was boring as fuck because the grind was so huge, and theres only so much nostalgia you can tap into before it becomes obvious youre not gonna be spending alot of time pvping like you did on Rallos.

Thats why all that was left in the end were mostly: PVEers (Nihilum) and the griefers who slowly but surely ran the servers pop to the ground, after which they quit themselves when there was nobody left to grief and Nihilum was untouchable because they would sit 45 in a zone. And now you got little influx here and there of new people that cant be rapidly griefed out now that xp loss been taken out, but devs reacted too late imo, wether it was for RL reasons or they liked xp loss, whatever.

[Faerie]

Team balance could easily be offset with a little creativity.

Disallowing character creation on the "wnning" team would be enough, I bet. Even though Nihilum would have several hundred pre-made accounts with level 1s, people like to pick their own race/face/names.

I'm still betting that they implement teams on this server, because they really don't have the numbers to have 3 servers going at once. Or maybe they'll do something even cooler, and turn blue into the teams server...

[Tradesonred]

Team balance could easily be offset with a little creativity.

Disallowing character creation on the "wnning" team would be enough, I bet. Even though Nihilum would have several hundred pre-made accounts with level 1s, people like to pick their own race/face/names.

I'm still betting that they implement teams on this server, because they really don't have the numbers to have 3 servers going at once.

Lets think like some of the scumbags here think for a sec: Lets create 40 new characters on the opposing side. lol.

How do you fix that. How do you balance inactive characters.

Or maybe they'll do something even cooler, and turn blue into the teams server...

LOL that id play, but it will never happen

[Stinkum]

All I am saying is it is like Groundhog's Day with EQ PvP servers since the first VZTZ box. The same FFA ruleset, the same exact 75-pop box, most of the people on here are the same people you played against on VZTZ. The same inevitable 1-powerful guild server while the server circles the drain in stasis until someone finally puts it out of its misery.

We never get any new blood and it's because these servers and ruleset alienates new players. If you're still claiming you have fun on here at this point you're only lying to yourself because no one believes you.

[Faerie]

Lets think like some of the scumbags here think for a sec: Lets create 40 new characters on the opposing side. lol.

How do you fix that. How do you balance inactive characters.

I really don't understand what you're asking. The winning side wouldn't just be determined by sheer numbers; it's pretty obvious that they would use recent pve accomplishments as a factor.

Anyone remember this thread?

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=112438

[Tradesonred]

I really don't understand what you're asking. The winning side wouldn't just be determined by sheer numbers; it's pretty obvious that they would use recent pve accomplishments as a factor.

Anyone remember this thread?

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=112438

That sounds really complicated... Devs barely found the time to remove xp loss, which must be like flipping an [on] [/off] switch in a line of code, and theyre going to mess around with something this big? I dont think so, unless they suddenly have a bunch of free time on their hands.

[Faerie]

That sounds really complicated... Devs barely found the time to remove xp loss, which must be like flipping an [on] [/off] switch in a line of code, and theyre going to mess around with something this big? I dont think so, unless they suddenly have a bunch of free time on their hands.

All of this would take a bunch of initial coding, which they could start doing once Velious is released. But I bet they could code it so the ability to allow/disallow character creation on any team is an on/off switch. From there, it would be easy to determine which team is "winning".

[Nirgon]

This shit is classic, read it

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums//showthread.php?t=7541

[Nirgon]

Nother good one

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/server.html?eserver=35&mid=104795427884992

[Tradesonred]

This shit is classic, read it

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums//showthread.php?t=7541

Thats why i enjoy FFA. If something happens that makes you hate guild a or b, you can move against them, no matter on which "team" you were before.

I was an anti-pk on rallos, i never understood these guys who were actually thinking that PKs were really bad people. I always viewed it in a roleplaying glass, PKs are the "evil wizard" you have to slay. Without them you dont have a pvp server.

[mtb tripper]

I just decided I am at terms

[Sirken]

there will be no wipe.

there will be no new third server.